#but she didn't know that. so she can't
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I think an early example of warriors being weird about how they consider abuse victims (outside of dawn of the clans) is with violet and twig in avos. Having the pov of two sisters growing up in radically different places, one with love and multiple parent figures, and the other in an unstable violent home with no protection. Having that really inform how they make decisions as adults is really ambitious and I think they pull it off really well in the first 3 books.
I remember a scene where Twig sneaks into shadowclan to see Violet and Violet gets really upset at her for it. It could be used to show that Twig doesn't expect punishment, it's less of a concept to her outside of maybe a soft scolding because of her upbringing and maybe even bc of Thunderclan's culture in general since a lot of its cats tend to go out of their way like this (it's bc they're the pov clan but i like considering it as a characteristic of thunderclan at this point too). Violet however is frantic and unsure, she's literally felt like she was on thin ice since she was a toddler, she knows punishment in shadowclan right now is often pure violence or being kicked out entirely.
Like that's a good conflict, in twig's pov violet is just being unfair or mean. When twig does stay with her for a couple days and then says she's going back home, Violet gets upset, and angry because yeah she thought maybe she'd finally have one safe person back here. That's all fine, and it makes sense that Twig can't conceptualize how bad violet's position actually is. But I think on a meta level it's bizarre that they never feel the need to have twig learn that either, it's just accepted that violet needs to apologize for her behavior when she's being parried between multiple violent homes with flaky caregivers who actively tell her they don't want her yknow.
She ends up living under a violent cult, she watches people die. She watches her older sister figure who she had a problematic, complicated relationship with die for her and it Haunts her for the next 3 books even when the authors stop acknowledging her overall ptsd. And ik ppl rag on needletail as a bad caregiver, to me that's why it's interesting. Violet and needle both didn't have a choice in who was around for them, they were both traumatized and in their own heads, trying to find safety, trying to learn about how to be a person at all. They kept leaving eachother, letting eachother down, hurting eachother, almost none of it was good but they were still the most consistent thing eachother had at all.
And twig's conflict is she has too many parent figures but not her Real parents (read author's weird dismissal of adoption coming back) and she doesn't know what clan she wants to live in lmao. Yknow and then they fix violetshine's ptsd by giving her a boyfriend and her birth parents back.
#warrior cats#I don't know what switch keeps turning off in their heads that makes them keep getting really close#but also not caring enough to carry these arcs through to completion#ig that's just what u get when there's several ghost writers filling out#a skeleton plot with little overarching plan or consideration#i really like violetshine and needletail anyway. it's disappointing that the main framing of them in fanart is like#nervous kid and cool rebel older sister bc it's more complicated than that.#I think if violet knew what she was going through and knew how you're meant to be treated. she'd probably resent needletail#but she didn't know that. so she can't#and i wish part of her growing up was really wrestling with the ways needletail also failed her. while understanding that needle was also#a teen who had been left behind by everyone. it's hard to resent someone who is also you.
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The idea that uni protesters are "elitist ivy-league rich kids larping as revolutionaries" on Twitter and Reddit and even here is so fucking funny to me if you actually know anything about the student bodies at these unis. Take it from someone who's going to one of the biggest private unis in the US, 80% of the peers I know are either from the suburbs or an apartment somewhere in America, children of immigrants, or here on a student visa. I've heard about one-percenter students, but I've never met one in person. Like, don't get me wrong, the institution as a whole is still very privileged and white. I've talked with friends and classmates about feeling weird or dissonant being here and coming from such a different background. But in my art program, I see BIPOC, disabled, queer, lower-income students and faculty trying to deconstruct and tear that down and make space every day. So to take a cursory glance at a crowd of student protesters in coalitions that are led by BIPOC & 1st/2nd-gen immigrant students and HQ'd in ethnic housings and student organizations and say, "ah. children of the elite." Get real.
#also idk how to tell you this but even if it were true. wealthy children potentially sacrificing their educational careers to protest is#a good thing actually. idk how to tell you that caring about people from other nations is good#personal#“this war has nothing to do with most students cuz nobody's getting drafted” idk how to explain to you that we should be angry#that our tuitions of 10s of thousands of dollars that we pay every year for an education is being used to fund a genocidal campaign#also the implication that if you go to a uni institution you are automatically privileged by participation no matter your bg#i didn't /want/ to go to this school. i was supposed to go to a school with an art/animation program. but i realized my immigrant#parents have been working their whole lives to get me here. and turning the opportunity down would be a disservice to their sacrifice#this is getting into convos of “what 2nd gen kids owe their parents” which is different for everyone but. yeah#i just get pissed off at seeing people misrepresenting student bodies as “wealthy” and “privileged” and “elite” when it's such a blatant li#i remember a year ago a friend told me they can't fly home to hong kong for winter break because the plane tickets are too expensive#so they have to find temporary housing around the area#last quarter for a film doc class my film partner made a doc on a small group of marxist grad students from india discussing praxis#during a rally a few months ago in response to police presence the coalition invited palestinian students to speak about their experiences#and lead songs and read poems they wrote. these are STUDENTS. are they elitist too?#this is not to disregard my own personal privilege either.#this whole narrative's just to rationalize a lack of empathy to me. seeing a 19yo student get shot by a rubber bullet and your first#reaction is “HAW! HAW! bet richy rich didn't see THAT coming when she put on her terrorist hood!”#newsflash. these big uni campuses are HAUNTED by the violence of past protests and revolutions and police brutality. we know.#why do you think these coalitions have been making reinforced barricades at record speed
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Mine: Refer to me however you want!
Mike: Yeah, for me too. I think I use all pronouns too.
[They high-five and fist-bump each other]
Mine:
[via @barbmine]
#Mine#Barbmine#Mikethelink#Mike#I LOVE THEMMMMMMMMMMM THEY'RE SO FUNNY#Mine funniest person alive fr#also YOOOO LETS GO??????#I didn't know Mike was ok with any pronouns#and Mine too??? that's awesome!#Also for those who don't know: Mine is Mike's wife!#They're both bi#They're so cool I wanna have a silly sweet partnership like this someday *clenches fist and stares off into the sunset*#As per usual: not a native Portuguese speaker so can't translate the full thing#please feel free to hop in with translations and/or corrections!#Though I'm pretty confident about these. Wouldn't post it if I wasn't#I'll be real idk how to translate viado LMAO#It's like. Not what google translate will tell you it means#idk imo I think ''homo'' sounds right but ONCE AGAIN: I'm not a Portuguese speaker#Poor Mine I laughed when she first posted this image ages ago and I replied to her saying it gave me a good laugh and she was like#''WAIT I PROMISE IT DOESN'T MEAN WHAT GOOGLE TRANSLATE SAYS IT MEANS''#it's all good Mine I'm bi too I am not phased lmao#I don't personally use that word but I do not care when other queer folks use it
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Incorrect, the fact that Biden has dropped out and a candidate with history of supporting medicare for all and being more receptive to a ceasefire in the I/P conflict has made me go from "I cannot morally support the Democratic nominee" to "I am voting for the Democratic nominee despite the fact she isn't perfect in every respect." I'm really happy this played out. The Dems for the most part abandoned the old Obama platform and it feels like its possible an actual progressive agenda could come to pass in my lifetime.
Kamala 2024!
If you weren't going to vote Democratic in this election before Biden dropped out you're a dorkass loser who does not care about any of the issues you're yammering about here and also a fundamentally bad person, and I hope you get run over by a bus.
But you got one thing right in all of this gibberish, Kamala 2024.
#personal#answered#anonymous#i mean let's be clear here no president is gonna attempt to be progressive ever again within my lifetime#because joe biden tried to do like 25% of that and got ZERO fucking credit#he did so much on healthcare on reform on loans on so many social issues and for all his litany of failings on i/p#he has been distinctly harsher on netanyahu than a good chunk of dems and certainly the entire republican party#for the first time since i was four we are not involved in any wars as americans and that is thanks to joe biden#but the thing is that he gets no credit for any of it!#him pulling out of afghanistan caused his approvals to tank in a way that never recovered#and leftists gave him FUCK ALL for it#they gave him nothing they just continued whining that even tho he cancelled a bajillion in student loans#he didn't actually cancel a QUADRILLION dollars so both parties are the same and voting is the most arduous task known to man#no democrat who is running is going to forget that catering to leftist/progressive policies gets them zero leeway with those supporters#that it not only tanks numbers but you still get constant haranguing about it anyway#so they're not gonna do it#we are gonna get fuckall for at least a good fifty years#and anything we get will be utterly in SPITE of people like you anon it will happen in spite of everything you've done#mostly because of people like me and mine who understand that voting is the bare minimum#and that for the democratic process to work the way you want it to you need to participate and not pitch a fucking fit#like a four year old who was told they can't go to disney this weekend#like i know you ratfuckers are happy this played out because this is all a game to you and you don't actually care#but that's why i've got zero faith in you people and why i'm glad it's my kind of folks#actual die hard democrats who have always been hardliners for supporting democrats in every possible election#who are picking up the slack and donating to harris and supporting her agenda#which is the exact same as biden's because she's his vice president and they share they same platform#because that's what they were both running on! twice!#anyway fuck you please feel free to find a necktie and test how tall your doorframe is
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Bit early for summer
#arknights#frostnova#talulah artorius#dlarts#based on the reunion 4koma in the 123 manga#yelena wearing a hoodie to the beach i knew it#i didn't expect her to 'feel' hot though#i headcanon that she can't regulate her own temperature so she can't tell if she's overheating#she's just always cold and won't know if she's suffering from heat stroke or heat exhaustion
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You know I am surprise Sebek that is never jealous to anyone who is close to Yuu. It is a boys school and I can imagine some have crushes on her.
#jk jk it's a total tragedy for sebek if he ever loves the same person as the one malleus loves#i swear malleus just loves the company#or is he#he did give me a little heart throb at the masquerade but that's all just yet#i can't really imagine anyone else likes her#malleus draconia#because partly i really don't plan of shipping her in the first place#sebek was a total surprise development fhsdshdh#this question arose at the time she was being shoved to jack#i can see that jack is totally someone to be jealous at ha ha; he is a total hunk#but i feel like sebek see him as a solid trustable friend than a snatcher who would disrespect him#i did think of a scenario from how sebek is jealous of malleus drinking coffee with silver that goes like...#yuu talking to silver; sebek be like “WHAT WHY ARE U TALKING TO SILVER MORE”#and yuu be like “bcs silver whispers when he talks”#and stubborn as he is sebek be like “I CAN TALK IN WHISPER TOO”#and he sat there and tried so hard to whisper which pretty much end up as at the very least normal talking voice#and Sebek just “GRRR NGRHRHHRH!!!!!! YOU'LL SEE I'LL WHISPER PROPERLY ONE DAY!!!! AND U'LL HANG OOUT WITH ME MORE”#fjsdsdj#but i don't even know what would yuu talk with silver#i didn't even realize before that silver is actually in 2nd class#they look so same age#yuu be like - . - to everyone anyhow#she just keeps the guy act while brushing off the thought whether the others already know she is a girl or not#sebek zigvolt#twst yuu#twst mc#twisted wonderland#twst#fanart
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tfw u come across someone else who can't remember certain things and it hits a little too close to home for a second
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[[ All Croissant Adventures (chronological, desktop) ]]
[[ All Croissant Adventures (app) ]]
#Ok so listen I know this is Shadowheart's Whole Thing#1) I didn't know this part of Croissant's backstory when you first meet Shadowheart and she can't remember stuff#2) I think it would be different with someone who can't remember anything v. someone who can't remember one or two important things#Secret Croissant knowledge only I know :^)))))#It has nothing to do with Shar if that's what you're thinking#bg3#baldur's gate 3#bg3 spoilers#act III spoilers#house of grief#croissant adventures#arves#shoutouts to anyone who finds this searching the arves tag LMAO#tav#comics
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#high potential#highpotentialedit#Morgan Gillory#Adam Karadec#anyways I am screaming#he's so salty about not getting an apple fritter#he can't even look her in the eye when he asks about it#but then SHE GETS HIM ONE!!!!#and he's so happy about it!!!!!#like#he knows that's what's in the box#he has to know#but he's still so happy to see it!#it's like he didn't want to get his hopes up#god i love him
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Say what you want about Mary, but nothing makes my heart ache for Arthur more than how fucking much they loved eachother and how much they knew it would never work.
Meeting Mary the second time, she absolutely lit up seeing that Arthur actually came to help her again. Even despite the rough circumstances with her father, they both went and had a wonderful evening at the theatre.
Mary had no idea that would be the last time she'd ever see Arthur alive again.
#and she didn't even say goodbye to him at the trolley#the last letter she wrote to him was about moving on and gave back the ring arthur gave her#I can't even imagine how much the guilt and grief ate at her for that#oh mary arthur loved you so much#he had a dysfunctional family just like you why couldn't you both see that#oh man#rdr2#red dead redemption 2#mick squeaks#mick thinks#arthur morgan#mary linton#mary gillis#red dead redemption 2 spoilers#she probably wanted it to be the last time they'd meet because she wanted to move on#but how was she to know#how was she to know she would never see those blue eyes again
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Hob is going to come home one day two months into Dream's retirement (and seven weeks into their marriage) and Dream's going to be full Victorian maiden on the chaise lounge, arm covering his eyes.
Hob, who is not a fool: Want to talk about it, or want to be consumed by the agonies for a little while longer while I prepare dinner? You got groceries, right?
Dream: [horrible groaning dirge of assent]
Hob: I'm starting to get a little concerned, dearest
Dream: I went out to. Obtain groceries. And the woman at the till said 'enjoy your food'.
Hob: And you said?
Dream: "My thanks. you as well."
Hob: My poor love. Have a kiss to ease the sting.
Dream: [accepting the forehead kiss as his due] I can't go back to that grocery store in this lifetime.
Hob: Understandable.
Dream: Can we fake our deaths tomorrow?
Hob: Give me two weeks to wrap everything up, then we can.
Dream: <3
#dreamling#you can take the dream out of Dream but you can't take the dramatics#he's going to be horrified to realize that sometimes humans just replay their worst/embarrassing moments in their heads on loop at 3am#instead of sleeping#dream didn't suddenly gain social skills when he became an immortal human#he just lost the ability to will himself away in a cloud of sand#poor dream just wants humanity to be petting cats and fucking his husband#and instead it's Failing To Small Talk Correctly#and everybody everywhere immediately sensing he has No Chill Except On Rare Occasions#even getting drunk off his mind to forget that just results in hangovers the next day#but the bit where Hob is constantly demanding them to take lovey dovey selfies for his phone backgrounds is nice#and Hob will mention my husband in all conversations just because he's so pleased they're married#Hob. Marjorie knows we're married already. It is unnecessary to introduce me as your husband still.#Hob: idk she was looking like she'd forgotten that fact since last time
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ghost stares at the ceiling, chest heaving in a harsh pant; sweat ice on his clammy flesh and soaked into the sheet he restlessly kicks away.
ears still ringing, his fingertips blindly drift down to trail along his vivisection scar. he half-expects blood to smear in their wake. his own line of solomon, who ordered him split in twain; half of him given to a grieving mother and half left with the grieving to be.
just for both his broken halves to be rejected.
what did it make him that his mother grieved him more than she loved him? that she begged to be relieved of him more adamantly than she begged to receive him? why did his worth spill out with his drawn blood? why was his pain lesser than hers?
his hand flexes, digging into the raised scar like it’ll part beneath his fingertips to plunge into his mangled insides. no one knows the cruelty of reforming the halved; his name, his being, not nearly as important as his body when he was stripped from himself. no one knows the pain of healing and understanding losing pieces of yourself means losing your value along with them.
how many more pieces did he have to lose before he was halved once more? before his very presence incurred grief so strong it was better to be rid of him than cradle his bloodied remains?
did the infant fight himself? did he age always at odds with himself; his halves never truly whole? he hopes he wasn’t, that he was spared the loss of self; the fear that one may be welcomed over the other.
who will he lose when the inevitable comes? when he’s ripped apart again? simon? or ghost? is it better to be cursed with choice just like his mother or live with an aftermath chosen for him? does it matter if in the end, he convinces himself there was nothing of him left to lose?
his head lolls to the side and the wild buck of his chest slows. he watches johnny beside him, his face lax with the rare peace of sleep; his cheek squished against the pillow, his lips pursed as long breaths escape him.
johnny. soap. never torn asunder but two all the same.
he carefully reaches out and ghosts his fingers along the jagged scar on his chin. even in sleep, he presses into his bloodied touch. he’s never fled his half-flesh, never shies away from his gore as it spills unbidden from his cleaved torso. he holds on where his mother let him go; cups his stomach to hold his insides in place and never minds the blood that drips through his fingers.
simon will never let him become his own solomon and cannibalise himself. he will never let him question which half of him has more value; which pieces he can afford to lose before he’s cast aside.
ghost’s soap. simon’s johnny. his.
whole, in any incarnation.
#yall know the story of king solomon?#and the two mothers who claim a baby is theirs so he orders the baby cut in half so they can each have half of him?#well guess what woke me up out of a dead sleep and demanded to be written?#anyway roba showing simon clips of his mum on the news begging for the safe return of her boy#for the government to do something; /anything/ please she just wants her son back#just for ghost to dig himself out of simon's coffin and she can't bear to look at the man he's become#he's cold and afraid and hesitant and angry and in pain and so different from her little boy that it's just too difficult for her#he's a living breathing reminder that her simon didn't come back from the desert#and ghost has to live with the knowledge that his mum couldn't love him through anything#that maybe if he got himself out sooner if he was stronger or smarter or a better soldier... if he hadn't let simon die...#maybe he wouldn't have changed so much that she wouldn't look him in the eye and see a stranger#if you know anything about me by now you know i love the separation of the self and the person they become around others or bc of trauma#whether thats hizashi and present mic or simon and ghost its one of my absolute favourite tropes#and simon knowing hes become someone else and going home expecting to still be loved anyway?#just for this new version of himself to be rejected?#thats the moment he fractures into ghost#coming out of my cage and ive been doing just fine.txt#we’re a team. ghost team#simon ghost riley#ghost cod#john soap mactavish#soap cod#soapghost#ghostsoap#ghoap#ghost call of duty#cod mw2#cod mwii#save post
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the doctor took donna's memories as she cried and begged him not to. she would rather die than forget. still, he robbed her of agency. he played god and betrayed her trust.
here he finds himself, lifetimes later, caught between saving a city and keeping her alive. what she wants is to give her life and save her family, save millions. why does it have to be this?
he listens this time. without argument, he returns what she lost. he honours her choice. and if she dies while he holds her, she dies remembering. smiling. the doctordonna forever.
#except she doesn't even die yayyyyyyy 🥳#sorry for waxing poetic i am so embarrassing but i love parallels & i love subversion!#liiike. i'll choose 55 more seconds of life if i can be with you. if i can know who i am. if i can save who i love. if i'm whole.#as much as i wanted donna to be sooo angry with him#ik the episode didn't have time for that & also#this journey's end reversal felt so redemptive & cathartic i can't even complain#doctor who#donna noble#tenth doctor#fourteenth doctor#doctor who spoilers#bea.txt
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Pocahontas refusing to confide in Nakoma.
Pocahontas (1995)
rambling lil' meta under the cut
i've been thinking a lot about pocahontas's relationship with nakoma and what kind of friends they really are in the context of the film. when we meet them both, pocahontas is elevated and nakoma is in a boat far below her, shouting up to reach her. i think nakoma is always reaching for pocahontas and pocahontas will only reach back sometimes. it's a pretty unbalanced friendship, when you look at it, and i wonder why nakoma remains the main point of contact in the community for pocahontas besides her father. perhaps it's because they're similar ages. maybe they're childhood friends who just got so used to each other that the one may take the other for granted.
pocahontas never confides in nakoma, and you gotta wonder why. even their first interaction has pocahontas demurring when she answers that she was up on the cliff thinking. thinking about what? She doesn't say, but she doesn't refute nakoma's assumptions.
and nakoma...what does she get out of this friendship? maybe she's just used to trailing after pocahontas this way, maybe she just doesn't have another friend, or she thinks pocahontas needs her.
nakoma is sort of a foil for thomas, who trails after john smith like a starry-eyed fanboy with an intense para-social relationship perspective. nakoma also is the active participant in the friendship, not pocahontas. nakoma fills in the gaps of their relationship with assumptions and guesswork, because pocahontas is so reticent, so hesitant to share of herself that nakoma Has to. and when pocahontas's seclusion goes too far, when she fails to confide in nakoma some of the most essential elements of what she intends, nakoma has to fill in the gaps again. and when she does it's Not Good, and her solution is to send their strongest warrior (a man with affection for pocahontas, who might keep her secrets if she needs him to) to try and save her friend. and then it all blows up in their faces and a man lies dead in the water for it.
every relationship in the movie is so tragic like brO—
#pocahontas's whole deal here fascinates me#pocahontas (1995)#disney pocahontas#disney nakoma#pocahontas#nakoma#disney's pocahontas#pocahontasedit#pocahontasgif#disneyedit#disneygif#fyeahpocahontas#disneyfeverdaily#pocahontas meta#queso*edit#queso*gif#help i'm hyperanalyzing disney's pocahontas again#for real tho pocahontas's avoidance tactics are on another level#she's at a point where she can just disappear for a day and a half and everyone will just be like ''she does that''#i have a headcanon that pocahontas and nakoma were also each others' first se/xual experiences as they were growing up#and that nakoma caught feelings and pocahontas didn't#and it was messy and terrible but they stuck around each other anyway#and somehow made it back to friendship#but obviously there's SOMETHING that makes pocahontas feel like she can't truly confide in anyone#except MAYBE grandmother willow#she Thought she could confide in her father and ask his advice but we know how that conversation went#pocahontas is such a profoundly lonely person in a lot of ways#(and so is john smith)
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Love learning new things just like the other day someone said that, apparently, in order to lean on Miles' shoulder Gwen had to use extra strength and concentration cuz it's already hard to sit upside down and she made it even more difficult by balancing her weight enough to lean her upper body towards another person and it made me think of how she didn't hold hands with him which was way easier to do in that position but she felt so bad that she rejected him that she said "fuck gravity he needs to know that I care. I already fell for him I might as well fall down too"
#love gwen's policy being like i can't be with you but i just want you to know that you mean the world to me#even if i never say that and if you don't think so you do#honestly this world is so messed up that it's hard to open up even when you want to even when she could in itsv unlike here#she didn't because it wasn't so easy#but i love that she didn't cuz her entire character was making friends again not making boyfriends#and i was happy to see that despite the chemistry and being so adorable they remained friends#and they knew each other for few days it was too quick#and his uncle just died#and peter was right there lol they couldn't kiss in front of him not the first time at least#so they should get married in the end of btsv it's only fair#gwen stacy#miles morales#gwiles#ghostflower#spider man across the spider verse#across the spiderverse#spiderverse
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blood dripped from Poseidon's mouth, red.
red.
the day they overthrew Kronos, child-eater (stomach acid crawling around them, after maw of teeth grazing his small, child body), his golden ichor bled red.
god blood, degraded into a mortal's.
the day Typhon, father of monsters (as big as their father was, as big as the Titans with sharp claws and teeth) ripped out Zeus' tendons, his blood was red.
Poseidon, god of the tides, son of Kronos, looked up at the dark shape stood above him, his own golden trident in his hand, the teeth like prongs drenched in red.
Odysseus is a mortal. was a human.
sharp webbed ears spread out on the side of their head, scales grew around their neck and arms, shining like a coral reef, illuminated by their growing red eyes, that were shrunken to slits.
Odysseus' teeth glinted in the lightning, showing their unnaturally sharp point.
monster.
#small snippet that i can't develop any further.#this is uh#Ithacan Naga AU#didn't mean to talk about Poseidon's probable trauma with Kronos but here we are. do you think particularly salty or poisoned water reminds#poseidon of stomach acid? do you think the original five olympians are closer knit with each other#from being eaten alive as a child and then growing up in a stomach?#do you think hestia is the goddess of family cause she was the oldest sister and had to care for the others the most? that hades find an un#ealthy comfort in the darkness of the underworld? How do you think stomach acid was for Poseidon; as god of the sea? if that was the closes#he could get to his domain in a /stomach/? The same with demeter? only chewed up food as the closest to agriculture?#do you think hera understood - somehow - that this hurt their mother?#sigh#and all and all Zeus was really only able to lead them so easily afterwards is cause they didn't /know/ what to do after they were freed?#/AND/ Zeus really isn't privy to any of it; cause of course he isn't (nor does he care to know).#didn't mean to rant with that but. yup. anyway#tbh i want to draw a part of this to show the webbed ears w/ head-wings so. yeah. maybe. i'm still getting used to my new drawing tablet an#my sketchbook fell in water a while ago and i've been frozen on how to deal with it. so. yeah.#anyway#600 strike#vengence saga#epic the musical#the vengeance saga#epic the vengeance saga#why do we have so many tags for the same thing ;.)#six hundred strike#odysseus epic#epic odysseus#odysseus#writing#poseidon epic#epic poseidon
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Can we talk about how Jonathan might've been able to clock Mike simply because of what happened with him and Nancy in season two?
This will be a long post, so you might want to strap in or save it for later.
In Will and Mike's case, it would obviously be much different from Jonathan and Nancy's situation, given that you know, they're gay. But we still have Jonathan arguably going through a similar experience as Will, while Mike is going through a similar experience as Nancy.
In s2, we see Nancy confront Jonathan about how she waited for him before getting back with Steve, which is a revelation to him. Then they're at Murray's and she's struggling to say she loves Steve, after a handful of moments between them that felt like she might return Jonathan’s feelings. And you can clearly see it in his eyes, listening to Murray imply that they have feelings for each other, with him looking back and forth sort of in awe of what's happening, like he's starting to question if she might actually like him back.
Will doesn't have that same affordance as Jonathan to really hope, at least not anymore. Which is why these relationships in s2 and s4 end differently for these two brothers.
Based on all the signs he was seeing that Nancy felt the same, Jonathan decided to take the plunge to admit to Nancy how he felt, and at that same moment Nancy had the courage to show how she felt. In Will and Mike's case, Will wasn't ready to take the plunge to admit to Mike how he felt, at the same moment Mike didn't have the courage to show how he felt.
What's so painfully hilarious to me about all of this though, is that Jonathan arguably starts the season in the same shoes as most of the audience, where from his perspective, it's becoming obvious to him now that Will like's Mike, but that Mike does not feel the same way.
First at Rink-O-Mania, Mike appears a little uncomfortable upon hugging Will. Then as the happy couple continues on their adventure into Rink-O-Mania, he watches Will lagging behind moping. And then unfortunately he's out of commission for the rest of the evening...
But once he's sober and back to being an attentive brother the following morning, we see him watching them at breakfast, with Mike barely sparing Will a glance, all while Will is blatantly staring, almost like he's waiting for Mike to look back, only for Mike to get up and walk away.
All of these instances gotta be SCREAMING unrequited gay love to Jonathan. He's already gotten signs for years that Will is gay, these are now just the signs that are instilling his suspicions that Will has feelings for Mike. He could have easily interpreted their relationship in the early seasons as young best friends, with Will seeming to have a crush on Mike, and with them growing up and that potentially including Will's straight friend distancing himself from him because he doesn't feel the same. It's not the most unexpected thing in the world considering.
But then there's a shift.
Suddenly he's creeping up on them talking in his room. And we know he was listening in on the conversation because he brings up Owens when he sits down. As he's eavesdropping, he's probably thinking something innocent like Aww they're making up! And like, hey! Even if Mike doesn't feel the same, which is okay and entirely expected honestly, at least he still cares about Will enough to make things right after acting so out of character. Still, I'm not gonna lie, that sounded a lot like flirting to me--
Then he's knocking on Will's door like 30 minutes or less later only to find Mike and Will back on their bullshit. Mike suddenly isn't going out of his way to ignore or put Will on the back burner. In fact, he's on his bed and they're talking, again! The door is even closed this time, which is interesting. This has gotta be a good sign in Jon's eyes. Nothing to worry about! Right? Right...?
But then suddenly this shift continues, going in a direction he probably didn't expect.
I mean, this is literally an identical jancy parallel we have here with byler on the hood of the car, with Jonathan right there to witness it. Despite him maybe only now subconsciously picking up on the similarities between Will and Mike to him and Nancy here, he's at least taking note (I mean he's even got his gay map out and everything).
It isn't until the van scene happens, that I think Jonathan starts to genuinely consider his suspicions, which is that Mike might actually like Will back.
EVERY time we get a shot of Jonathan looking back at Will and Mike in the van, followed by a shot of his POV from the rearview mirror, we're faced with Mike looking at Will while Will is looking away.
As Jonathan is hearing Will confirm his suspicions about his feelings for Mike, he's simultaneously witnessing Mike not looking at Will with disgust, but something more akin to reverence. All of those moments in the van that we witnessed, including all the ways Mike looked at Will and everything that was said, Jonathan was right there.
And what's even more insane about this scene, is that it circles back to Jonathan as a character himself.
I remember when people were talking about how odd it was that we never saw Jonathan with a camera in s4. After 3 seasons in a row of making his passion for photography a big part of his identity, that part of him was apparently absent entirely this time around... But was it really?
This is the same guy that said, "Sometimes, people don't really say what they're really thinking. But you capture the right moment, it says more."
Jonathan might not have had his camera in s4, but this was without a doubt one of those moments where he captured something more.
Something that I also think get's highly overlooked about this scene, especially when it comes to Jonathan looking back at them, being followed by a shot of Mike staring at Will, is that he could see both of their reactions the whole time, from beginning to end. Will nor the audience had the affordance of knowing because Will was facing the other way at the end, while we on the other-hand were blurred from even having the chance, despite Mike literally being in the frame. But not Jonathan. He even lets us see what he sees, a few times, but not at the very end, which would have been nice after they didn't let us see Mike's reaction seconds before this.
Let's just stop right there for a second though and circle back to what I consider to be the first time Jonathan really picked up on Will's feelings for Mike, which was at the end of s3, in a sequence that is a little too relevant to the van scene if you ask me, given that they are almost direct parallels.
While these parallels are pretty spot on visually, they are also near spot on narratively when it comes to the evolution each of these characters are experiencing.
For Will in the first scene, it's sadness that he's moving away from his friends in Hawkins and also feeling like he's losing Mike, after what looks like him and El making up, which makes him scared he'll distance himself again. For Jonathan, it's sympathy for his brother who appears to have some very deep feelings for his friend, feelings he can't quite grasp yet but soon enough will.
For Will in the second scene, it's heartbreak that he has to accept that Mike will never feel the same, knowing that supporting his relationship with El (encouraging it honestly) will likely turn out just as it did last time, with him losing Mike all over again, for the last time. For Jonathan it's sympathy for his brother who has now confirmed his suspicions that the feelings he has for Mike are more than just that of a friend.
Given that this parallel reinforces the same feelings Will and Jonathan had in s3 to now, why would this not also reinforce those same feelings that Mike had in s3 to now?
In the first scene, Mike was visibly distraught, with dialogue from Hopper in the background applying a little too perfectly with what he was feeling in that moment, which was scared. He’s apparently back together with El now, despite them doing just fine as friends for the last 3 months, as well as him and Will just having finally gone back to them being on good terms again. But now, it’s like he’s right back where he started at the beginning of s3, feeling obligated to be the perfect boyfriend to El, and as a result, having no choice in his eyes but to distance himself from Will. Mike then walks into his house looking like a zombie, almost emotionless stepping into his mother's embrace.
Now, I say almost emotionless because it looks like Mike was trying to hold back showing how he truly felt in this moment. He's not crying like he did in s1 when he lost Will that first time. Time has passed and things have changed (he doesn't want things to change). And he's trying his best to keep it together. But the in-focus close-ups make it clear that he is definitely not okay.
What's so impactful about these parallels is that it presents the inner struggle both of these characters are having, both queer and experiencing doubts, but in different ways and for different reasons.
Will is the one who covers it all up with lies, hiding the tears in his eyes, because boys don't cry.
Mike is the one who has never cried to them, just to his soul (RUN AWAY! TURN AWAY! RUN AWAY! TURN AWAY! RUN AWAY!!!).
If you actually try to get a gage on Mike's in-focus emotions in that first scene vs. his out-of-focus emotions in that second scene, well they're not that far off from each other.
We go from Mike smiling vibrantly at Will, to him now slowly turning away to look back down at the painting, with whatever the hell emotion this is...
It's near impossible to catch because of how out-of-focus it is, but looking a lot closer, it honestly appears like Mike is feeling something akin to sadness that he's trying to mask. For a moment it even looks like he turns his head to wince emotionally, only to correct himself.
And call me crazy, but these shots also low-key parallel each other. Mike looking down trying to keep his emotions in check and failing miserably, only to look up and meet eyes with someone whose witnessing it.
With each shot before this of Jonathan observing Mike looking at Will, with him showing all the emotions Will never got to see and everything else in between, I wonder what Jon saw this time? Probably another thing he didn't expect.
Can you just try to imagine the silence in this van, accompanied by Will's muffled sobs, and then try to imagine Mike turning to look down at the painting, only to sneak a glance, and then go right back to looking at the painting, IN SILENCE, and then try to tell me how the assumption that Mike didn’t notice Will crying makes any sense, like realistically?
Yeah me and Jonathan are confused too.
Right now, Jonathan's probably wondering why Mike was acting a little fruity and repressed during the painting reveal. And that although he may have a penchant for being able to 'capture the right moment', Mike is sticking with his story (despite all the stalling and doubt). He is 100% straight!
And so maybe this is where Jonathan tries to accept what is being presented to him as the truth, despite the contradictions in front of him. It's likely that despite the way Mike looks at Will and acts around him, in ways he would have assumed coming from Nancy in s2 would've been evidence that she felt the same, it probably doesn't apply to Mike.
Maybe Jonathan's ready to accept that it's a lot more likely Will is experiencing unrequited love as a gay kid growing up in a small town, the most predictable experience a gay kid could go through, and in contrast Mike just feels too bad to let Will down easy.
Or who knows, maybe Mike could still be a little bit gay too...
But it doesn't matter anyways. Mike seems to be adamant about this and so there's really nothing else Jonathan can he do besides tell his brother he'll be there for him no matter what. And so he does just that.
But then Mike just has to surprise him one last time.
For those that don't know, the line Mike gives here in his monologue was in part pulled from Will's monologue in the van. Most don't know this because this line didn't make the final cut for the van scene, but in the official script the writers posted, what we find is an almost a direct parallel.
Which makes the reaction shots of Will and Jonathan directly after Mike says this all the more epic.
From Will's end he was probably hearing Mike say this and just thinking 'Damn. Well, that's what you get for using your feelings to inspire Mike to profess his love to El.'
But from Jonathan's end, I don't think his outside POV of these events overlapping was nearly as naive as his brothers understanding of the events. Because why the fuck would Mike need to use Will's feelings to inspire him to profess his love to El in the first place? Is this what Mike has been struggling with? Really? Why before every moment Mike takes action in this scene, is Will's hand literally pushing him into it? Why is Mike being so dramatic about saying I love you, stuttering and rambling about her being a superhero, not saying nearly as meaningful of things as what Will said in the van?
And then it hits him.
Mike is reminding him a little too much of another Wheeler right now...
Nancy Wheeler, who was afraid of what would happen if she accepted herself for who she really was, leading her to retreat back to the safety of Steve. Because Nancy liked Steve, but she didn't love Steve.
And now here is Mike Wheeler, who has went from being incredibly distant with Will after reuniting with El, something that is very unlike the Mike he knew in previous seasons, to something more himself again after they make up, with him looking at Will with adoration after hearing his words in the van, only to turn away and look heartbroken. Mike who is now struggling to simply tell El he loves her with Will right behind him literally yelling at him to do it.
And now it's like all those little moments are starting to add up to Jonathan.
Suddenly all those signs he picked up on from Will when he was younger are now blending in with moments Will shared with Mike. It was Mike who jumped in after him and his mom's speech to Will in the shed in s2, with tears in his eyes recalling the day that they met (without being asked, let alone pushed to). And it's Mike who is now looking like he's at war with himself as he attempts to give encouragement to El, just like he did with Will in s2, but this time he needs someone to push him to do it, and that person just so happens to be Will. After just finding out about Will's feelings and also while assuming El wants him to love her that way still, Mike is stuck.
I don't think it's takes a genius to consider Jonathan is capable of realizing how fucked they all are in this situation.
As much as Mike isn't ready for a sleuth of reasons, Will isn't ready either.
This provides a huge contrast between the bylers ², because while Jonathan and Nancy went through a similar experience to Will and Mike, them being ready to accept it and act on it didn't involve nearly as many factors and risks. Will and Mike also have the added barrier that is homophobia.
Will's internalized homophobia lies in part with assuming Mike could never feel the same based on some of the words he said in their last two fights, with parts being painfully reminiscent of the things his dad and bullies used to say about him. These are also words that contradict Mike's own words and actions from the previous seasons, things that did once give Will hope. The shame and guilt that comes with falling for your best friend, who you now know will never feel the same after being foolish enough to believe it not too long ago, and who might not even want to be your friend anymore upon finding out the truth, is understandable. He can't have hope like Jonathan can. It's just not the same.
Mike's internalized homophobia lies with assuming El wants him to love her, along with their relationship being expected and socially acceptable from everyone around him. Though unfortunately for her he feels abundantly more in love in the moments he shares with Will. Despite trying to make it work with El as hard as he could, because she's amazing and all any guy could hope for in a girlfriend, he can't ignore the fact that the feelings he has for these two people are different. The shame and guilt that comes with you, a boy, falling for your best friend, who is also a boy, and who is starting to show that he feels the same, all while you can't muster up the courage to break up with your girlfriend, nor can you muster up the courage to tell her that you love her, not when she's begging you, dying or even just simply at the end of a letter, is pretty understandable too. He can't have hope like Nancy can. It's just not the same.
Spoiler: They were not ready.
PS: I'm still not over the fact that they low-key confirmed these events elsewhere in the story...
#byler#st analysis#pocketgate#lettergate#i'm aware this is a hot (big brain) take#but i'm like 76% sure mike understood will in the van scene#also why mike is gonna finally be dealing with some personal business in s5...#just want to add that this makes the scene at Nina hit harder#also#mike trying and failing to tell el he loves her or break up with her at surfer boy and stalling because he just can't fucking do either?#mike's face when will pushes him to profess his love to el right in front of him???#honestly i dont think mike would've gone through with his monologue if he didn't think this is what el wanted in large part#i think he thought that if he did break up with her she wouldn't need him at all anymore#or more specifically if told her the truth she might hate him for it and just not want to be in his life in the aftermath of that#this is why he struggled so much with being honest#it was either lie and suffer but get to keep her in his life most likely or tell her the truth and potentially lose her and still suffer#it's just that now he has literally no choice but to conform and be with her all while knowing it's not what his heart truly wants#the heart not being true to himself jumpstarted the apocalypse#everyone act surprised#byler getting jonathan’d in s5 can be something so personal#no but imagine jon getting even more signals mike feels the same 😭#and he tries to talk to will about it but will just gets upset like pls stop why are you saying this?#or imagine him talking about it subtly with Nancy and her being like no way#only to see it for herself#maybe then Nancy would try to talk to Mike about how he’s feeling#idk I could genuinely see byler just getting byler’d individually#but it’s clear at this point Jonathan is extremely suspicious#honestly all I think it would take is him having intel about their previous fights#if he found out mike defended his behavior by insisting that they’re friends…#jonathan would just be like… oh shit.. the first lie…
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