it is, i think, symptomatic of the way larian has built this brand: bg3 was always marketed as being mature (read: sexual), and that was one of the big draws for players - myself included! especially as media pulls more towards extremes, with mainstream video games starting to get increasingly graphically sexual, graphically violent, and the vogue for 'grey morality' becomes the norm, those boundaries get pushed, and it becomes more and more of a selling point.
larian obviously focused on this, along with the How Do You Do, Fellow Kids brand, the increased accessibility of game devs on twitter, and adopted it heavily into their marketing strategy, and are now pretty reliant on the horny gamer crowd for a lot of their audience, and more importantly, they're doing this on purpose.
which is how you end up in situations like this.
characters (white men) the players want to fuck get centred: they get updates, they get more content, they get favoured. halsin's gone from a side character in EA to a half-fledged romance option, to a full romance option: he shows up in the promotional material, is larian's poster boy for the sex scenes, he gets more content with every update.
now gortash gets more heavily implied situationship lines with the dark urge, because players are horny for him. nevermind that some people aren't playing that way, or that he was originally set up to be a lower-level antagonist; nevermind that if the durge's storyline needed expansion, it should've been with orin and sarevok and bhaal, or that it muddies the writing for the rest of gortash's arc + characterisation: people want to fuck him, so it gets put in the game. it's not even to do with karlach, whose quest so desperately needs expansion! it's specifically catering to the people who want their character to have a Relationship with the slaver, because they're either not interested in or not able to focus on strengthening the weak spots in the narrative: they're just doing things that will net the 'my favourite dating sim' people lmfao.
meanwhile, literal main character wyll gets his quest demoted to a subquest, doesn't get bugfixes, doesn't get a single unique romance greeting after 6 patches and months of requests. he's not a Horny character, so he doesn't get the focus: he's not a player favourite, so he gets nothing. it's just... so unbelievably, indisputably racist, and it's incredibly grim and disappointing to watch it happen in real-time.
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tbh i think a lot of the people saying "well both sides are wrong"/"bt stans are just as toxic" are just not exposed to other perspectives in this fandom. as a buddie fan who's been watching this show since s1, i can safely say that buddie fans have always been toxic. like as fact. to me, to say that bucktommy fans are just as harmful or just as annoying or just as bad as buddies consistently are is just. delusional. indicative of at worst a biased opinion and at best an uninformed one. buddie has been here since s2 and fans have ruthless ever since. bucktommy has been here for 3/4 of a season and for the most part, stay in their lane. i'm sure there are bucktommy fans who suck, like that's just being on the internet, but you have to be blind to ignore how insane buddie fans are and genuinely how much worse they are in comparison.
i don't want to generalize and i think constantly adding that disclaimer is annoying as hell bc obviously i'm not talking about everyone but because buddie has been here for so long and taken up so much mental space of very die-hard, passionate fans, you're going to see much more intensity on that side. after season 5, i had to step away from the fandom and the show because of how frustrating it got. it was annoying to see people swear up and down buddie will be canon by the end of s3-no wait s4-no wait s5-no wait- and ultimately it sucked my enjoyment out of a show i otherwise enjoyed because i got swept up in the Buddie Of It All and forget about why i watch the show to begin with. we've been left to stew in our theories and now we can't tell what canon and what's fanon anymore, and when the show reminds us, the disappointment and frustration kills our hopes.
i was also active in the dan and phil fandom and supernatural fandom, like ik why people think we're annoying and it's because we are. we make everything about the one thing we like, we comment on every post begging for it to become canon, we're violently disappointed when the show doesn't play into our fan theories because we've convinced ourselves buddie is going to happen by the end of the next episode or actually the end of this season or actually maybe the end of the next season. we've torn a part every female love interest, either making them boring or making them unlikeable in our fanon. all that to say is that when people call us annoying, they're telling the truth and when bucktommy fans say buddie fans are toxic, they're coming from a sincere place. i mean we can't even enjoy our own ship because we're so quick to get our hopes up and be let down about something as stupid it becoming canon. who cares if it becomes canon, just like it to like it.
and it makes sense why there's perceived "toxicity" on the bucktommy side. our energy is being matched; the obsession, the passion, the surge in fandom. if you don't like it or even just find it annoying, i suggest you guys look back on your own posts and comments and behaviors towards other people in the fandom and other characters and unbiasedly compare it to the Toxic Bucktommy Shippers you're claiming you hate. if bucktommy fans are obsessive, it's because we've set the stage for that. if bucktommy fans are getting aggro and defensive, it's because buddie fans have been on the opposition and don't know how to turn it off. we've gone from underdog to bully somewhere in the last 6 seasons.
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i do wonder why fandom is so insistent on proving that "gale could eventually change his mind" when it comes to fatherhood.
if children are something you ideally want in your romance - that is completely valid and luckily for you, there are several romance options in the game that can provide just that. wyll, lae'zel, and halsin. even shadowheart briefly mentions that children might be a possibility for her in the future. 4 options total that either already have entire adoption subplots or are open to the idea.
meanwhile, fandom is bending over backwards, bringing up aspects of gale's arc that are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand and claiming that any statement coming from gale or any boundary he sets should forever be questioned because... "he has been known to have inferiority issues"?!
gale is a character who is very likely in his 40s. he isn't some 20-something college boy who is still trying to figure everything out. i personally never felt like there was any point in the context of gale's relationship with tav where he was unsure about his desires. quite the contrary.
gale is also very vocal about what he wants. not wasting any time in proposing to tav after the big bad had been defeated. i am pretty sure there would have been instances where gale expressed his desire to have children (whether that may mean immediate or somewhere down the line) if larian had intended to include this aspect in his romance as well.
...but instead all we have to go on when it comes to the subject of children in general are lines like these:
player: gale... how would you feel about having another person in our relationship?
gale: what, like a child? i'm not quite sure i'd consider myself father material, plus our current lifestyle isn't exactly what i'd call settled...
tara: this is why mrs. dekarios and i will be waiting an eternity more for grandchildren.
gale: psst! shoo, tara.
nodecontext: shooing away tara like one would a naughty cat.
gale, upon spotting oliver during their game of hide and seek: ah, i have you! just a shame i don't want you.
EDIT:
adding for clarification
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Tomas & Liu Kang
I’m trying to put things into right perspective about Smoke, Liu Kang’s approach to Tomas and how pushed into background he was during story mode so bear with me while I’m connecting dots.
Also, to be clear, I’m not here to morally judge the characters, just to talk about the dissonance between Smoke vs Liu Kang intro dialogues and the story mode.
For one, the pre-fight dialogues imply that Tomas lost his family due to Liu Kang (Keeper of Time)’s choice:
Smoke: "Did you intend for me to be orphaned?"
Liu Kang: "Some threads must be cut to weave time’s fabric."
and
Smoke: "I'm not sure I can forgive you."
Liu Kang: "Being Keeper of Time meant making many hard choices."
When Tomas was orphaned, Kuai Liang & Bi-Han’s father adopted him and made one of Lin Kuei. If the accusation is true, then we can assume Liu Kang wanted Tomas to join Lin Kuei, as he did in the past timeline(s). So, in theory, Smoke for whatever reason was important enough for the Keeper of Time to get involved and steer events to get the wanted result.
Which raises a question, why did Liu Kang not bother to recruit Tomas into Lin Kuei the same way he recruited Kung Lao, Raiden, Johnny Cage or Kenshi, by like, actually talking to him and taking for training? Or even why not just ask the befriended Grandmaster to take the boy (and Tomas' family) under his wings, which I think the man would do without further question.
Instead, Smoke was orphaned, taken in by Lin Kuei, adopted as son of Grandmaster and trained in magic to equalize his chances in the fight (in contrast, Bi-Han’s ice powers seems to be a natural part of him, related to specific bloodline).
Now, if Tomas was so important, if not in the greater scheme of things, then just for Liu Kang (and Kuai Liang), isn’t it weird, he is so sidelined and omitted by Fire Lord in the story mode?
Again, not judging characters, solely pointing out this choice of storyline, as this is especially visible during collecting the champions for the tournament arc.
In Chapter One, when the test was over and Liu Kang came to Kung Lao and Raiden to explain things, he specifically called only Bi-Han (the current Grandmaster) and Kuai Liang (Bi-Han’s blood-brother)
while Tomas was totally omitted and stayed behind with the rest unnamed Lin Kuei warriors.
Which, visually speaking, is weird, as just before that scene we could see Smoke walking alongside his adoptive brothers (with Bi-Han leading the group, Tomas and Kuai Liang walking a bit behind their leader, but before the unnamed warriors);
In the next chapter, again, only Bi-Han and Kuai Liang assisted Fire Lord in his quest to recruit Johnny Cage and Kenshi. Again, both Lin Kuei were addressed by their birth names, instead of codenames
while there is no information why Tomas was left behind. He likely was entrusted with escorting Kung Lao and Raiden to Shaolin Monks, yet the lack of proper mention emphasizes the pushing into the background.
We didn't learn officially Smoke's status as adopted brother of Kuai Liang and Bi-Han until Sub-Zero's chapter (#8). Unless I miss something, the first person on screen to actually address Smoke by his birth name was surprisingly Bi-Han.
Which makes even weirder the lack of including of Tomas from Liu Kang, as the Fire Lord and Smoke stayed allies through the story mode and intro dialogues (with some resentment on Tomas' side for death of his family) while the relationship between Bi-Han and Tomas was much more complicated to begin with.
We could make an argument that Liu Kang didn't want to antagonize Bi-Han by including adopted Tomas too much, however:
A) Bi-Han has never denied Tomas right to consider himself one of Grandmaster's sons - seen especially in Sub-Zero's speech pattern, as Sub-Zero always says just "Father", the same as Tomas and Kuai Liang, never putting emphasis on "my" as a reminder Smoke is adopted. The real conflict is not about whether Tomas is his and Kuai Liang's brother or not, but about him being a true Lin Kuei. What is also worth to keep in mind, any tension between brothers happened only in privacy (here and during the mission), never around Liu Kang.
(A similar thing can be noticed in intro dialogues. In Smoke vs Sub-Zero, Bi-Han specifically says "Because your blood is not Lin Kuei" however in Liu Kang vs Sub-Zero, when Fire Lord claims brothers (plural version!) miss him, Bi-Han doesn't correct his opponent about Tomas not being one. He instead says "Then they shouldn't have disobeyed my commands.")
B) Liu Kang did not show Bi-Han any special respect, especially not the kind of respect and friendship offered to Sindel and her husband, Jerrod. And yes, Fire Lord mentioned Bi-Han before Kuai Liang, and addressed him during the meeting before the mission (while the Sub-Zero's younger brothers - subordinates - stood together in silence)
but that basically it? Bi-Han didn't seem to be favored in any special way, I don't think he even was addressed as Grandmaster by Fire Lord at any moment in story mode.
Which is why I personally don't see why Liu Kang would omit Tomas solely to not hurt Bi-Han's ego or to not antagonize the man further - especially since Bi-Han himself didn't push the matter in any specific - openly - way nor didn't deny Tomas the right to consider himself one of Grandmaster's sons in the first place.
Frankly, as we don't see how Lin Kuei were informed about the upcoming meeting, we should ask, did Liu Kang call Bi-Han and specifically Smoke and Scorpion for the mission, or was that choice made solely by Sub-Zero? Because Lin Kuei for sure must have much more experienced warriors that Tomas (and Kuai Liang for that matter) but also sending on dangerous mission the Grandmaster AND the second* in line of succession seems impractical from the perspective of clan' inner safety.
*second and third, if Tomas was allowed at all to be the heir. Considering how neither Smoke nor Scorpion even for a moment considered that option and how Sektor & Cyrax would choose Bi-Han's corruption of the clan before accepting Kuai Liang as a new leader, the inner clan politics may not be so simple.
During the Lin Kuei mission (Sub-Zero's Band of Brothers Chapter) and during Bi-Han's betrayal (Scorpion's Civil War Chapter), the three brothers didn't address each other by codenames and as much as the situation allowed, freely interacted with each other.
However once Bi-Han is removed from the story mode, Smoke is even more pushed into the background. When asked, he will answer and make some (one?) observation however he barely interacted with other characters, mainly sticking to his brother. The most important exception is the scene when the heroes were wondering what to do after the big revelation and Tomas on his own talked about Lin Kuei and Bi-Han.
The story mode at that time was focused on other characters (like Mileena & Shang Tsung) so understandably, Lin Kuei brothers were put aside however even then Scorpion played a vital part, as it was Kuai Liang making the plan of attack, when Liu Kang wasn't around, while Tomas for most part was just there.
Again, no moral judging of characters just a mere observation how Tomas interacted the most freely with his brothers while was omitted by Liu Kang - and like, never(?) addressed by him in story mode, either by name or codename, even if the intro dialogues strongly imply Liu Kang was the one pushing Tomas into Lin Kuei in the first place.
Which makes an interesting contrast to Bi-Han & Smoke’s relationship but also shows how without intro dialogues, the relationship between Tomas and Liu Kang seems… non existing? I mean, even at the end of story mode, Liu Kang mentions Bi-Han
and his brother Kuai Liang building a new clan,
yet there is literally no mention of Tomas and his participation in the creation of Shirai Ryu and training its members (something confirmed in Scorpion and Smoke's endings).
Which only add to the weird feeling of alienating Tomas in story mode, not by Bi-Han but Liu Kang of all possible people?
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