#but i especially hate it about the hazbin discourse

[your-average-teenage-mess]

I do think that a lot of the culture around art criticism is just disguising categorical errors as insight. Like, what, hazbin hotel is garbage because it's just a bunch of exaggerated caricatures of horrible people that the audience is meant to stan, plastered over everything Tumblr likes to hyperfixate on in tv shows that weren't meant for them, except now it's done on purpose, in an attempt to make gay teenagers fawn over it? Buddy, I think you fundamentally misunderstood what they were doing if you think that's the part where they failed.

[bloodreddemons]

Hazbin Hotel Episode 5-6 Hot Takes! ~

Lucifer doesn't really seem like a necessarily "good" dad or "bad" dad. He's definitely not the greatest at all but it really does suck that Charlie was pretty much isolated from him. Not completely his fault I'm sure.

I know it's obvious at this point that Lucifer & Alastor don't like each other...but you can definitely tell Alastor HATES him. His face was just stuck on stink the entire time.

To follow that up, I wonder why Alastor doesn't like Lucifer so much. Maybe it has to do with Lilith or Eve?

I like Lucifer's personality despite being the literal Devil he's actually very goofy. I don't think this was even a hot take. Lol.

Alastor saying fuck is the funniest thing in this show so far. It was actually gold. Bless him.

I hate that there was actual discourse surrounding episode 5 regarding Charlastor, and that people who hate the ship took the opportunity to either be pissed about their interactions, or celebrate that the ship is dead.

Hell's Greatest Dad was a nice song I really enjoyed it. Alastor and Lucifer sounded great.

A lot of people have already said this, but I think it's pretty obvious that Alastor was only trying to piss Lucifer off with the daughter comments. I don't think he actually sees him & Charlie as family.

Saying that Charlie can almost call Alastor Daddy was jaw dropping lol. I don't get how the ship is dead. It's definitely revived.

I fucking hate Mimzy. She's just an awful friend. She's literally that fake friend that only hits you up when you need something. I don't get how Alastor has been (hazbin) friends with her for so long. Christ.

I would've just thrown Mimzy to the Lone Sharks.

I wonder who "owns" Alastor? Most likely Lilith, that's what everybody has said. It could also possibly be Eve tho. He's definitely been working with someone.

Alastor's monster eldritch form kinda looks how a lot of us expected.

I don't get how Charlie is going to tell Lucifer, the first fallen angel EVER, and God's actual former favorite, what Heaven would say or think. He's already been there before. He knows how they work.

"More than Anything" was actually a pretty sweet song. It kinda hit close to home. Lucifer really sounded like the Angel he is.

Cherri & Sir Pentious are actually really cute. I kinda saw that one coming. Idk how they'd fuck tho. Ewwww.

Something is weird about Charlie not being on that list when they got to Heaven. Some people have speculated that she's in the wrong place. Hmmmm.

I don't really care for Sera or Emily. Idk I just don't. Sorry y'all.

"Welcome To Heaven" was such a weird gay ass song. 🤣 Why was that white ass twink priest practically moaning lmao...but the song was giving some type of backstreet boys or NSYNC.

I didn't think Lute or any of the exterminators actually had faces. That was a shock.

Even though it was already obvious to so many I was still gagged when the Vaggie Angel theory was finally confirmed. I love the way she met Charlie.

Not a hot take but I fucking hate Lute & Adam for doing Vaggie like that. She definitely didn't deserve it. All she did was spare one fucking child. They're evil.

The blackmailing Vaggie thing was very anticlimactic and dumb as fuck especially since they made Vaggie avoid being questioned. It would've been more interesting if Vaggie did what Adam said and spoke against Charlie at the meeting.

I've come to realize that Heaven is just shit and nobody knows what they're doing. The fact that they have a piece of shit like Adam up there and he himself doesn't know why he's there in the first place is very telling.

I don't think Cherri is a bad friend at all, but it was very off putting for her to constantly peer pressure Angel Dust when he's been trying to have a good streak. I get that she's a party animal and don't give a fuck but she could at least be mindful of her friend that's trying to stop their bad habits.

Angel being protective of Nifty when she was drunk was so cute. I'm happy he saved her from Val even if she didn't need it.

"You didn't know" was meh. It had some good parts I liked the overlapping of "Hell Is Forever" but thats really it.

I feel like Charlie is going to forgive Vaggie pretty quickly. I don't think this dramatic revelation of her past is going to cause that big of a rift in their relationship at all, especially with how quick they made up in episode 3.

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

What it should mean to support ALL survivors—Fandom discourse and the depiction of sexual assault in media.

So. Okay.

Below is a video that, in my opinion, is a very well thought out and respectful critique of the writing decisions surrounding Angel Dust’s character and purpose in Hazbin’s narrative.

The author of the video does a great job clearly stating their thoughts and opinions, and put a lot of effort into explaining their reasoning in a concise and easy to understand way.

I really recommend giving it a watch—(TW for discussions of rape, sexual assault and abuse. )

However, one of the most important things about this video though, is that the author, Limus, takes the time to specify that the video is only her opinion, and that she does not want to invalidate the feelings of other people or survivors who like or feel represented by Angel Dust. (More below)

In their conclusion, Limus states, “…If you enjoyed “Hazbin Hotel” and Angel Dust as a character, that’s fine. I don’t want you to walk away from this thinking your opinion is less than mine. People have their own reasons for liking media, and the discourse surrounding this show and the harassment that people receive just for liking it is unacceptable. You can have your reasons for disliking a show, but people can also have their reasons for liking it as well. Everything I have said in this video is in relation to my own personal life…”

I was REALLY glad and really relieved that Limus took the time to specify this, because one of my biggest grievances with the discourse regarding Hazbin’s depictions of sexual abuse, assault and rape, is that I see a LOT of people, both critics and fans, disregarding the experiences and feelings of survivors with opinions opposite to theirs.

Specifically, I saw a LOT of people talking about the portrayal of sexual abuse in Hazbin, and media in general, as if it was something that could be judged as being OBJECTIVELY “good” or “bad”.

And then proceeding to argue with people over their opinions and feelings as if they were in some sort of debate and the other person’s beliefs could be disproven.

This was really frustrating to me, because I’m hyper-aware of how media is extremely subjective especially when it comes to serious topics like sexual assault, violence, substance addiction, abuse, etc. etc.

So, I’m going to talk, in detail, about what I see as a lot of hypocrisy within fandom and critical spaces.

This really started in January of this year (2024) when a trailer (or maybe a leak? Sorry I can’t remember) for Hazbin came out, and a scene from Poison was shown.

There were a lot of people who were really concerned with the way Angel Dust’s abuse was shown in the preview, a good amount of them survivors of sexual abuse themselves, and from there the discourse got pretty out of hand.

Worst of all though, people, both fans and critics, allegedly started demanding “proof” of survivor’s assault from those they disagreed with.

This was very gross behavior, and I don’t care what your opinion on Hazbin Hotel is, NO ONE should have done that. It’s not only incredibly invalidating, but also potentially re-traumatizing.

Seriously. I hope ANYONE who engaged in this behavior, REGARDLESS of if they love Hazbin and think it’s the best thing in the world or if they hate it and think it’s the worst piece of media ever, were able to take a step back and realize how hurtful and inappropriate their actions were. And hopefully grow from that.

What disappointed me the most though was seeing Hazbin’s creator’s reaction to all of this. It was, in my opinion, very hypocritical and set the stage for the sort of harassment that is continuing in the fandom today.

A Disclaimer—this is going to be one of the ONLY TIMES I talk directly about the creator of Hazbin Hotel, Vivienne “Vivziepop” Medrano. I’m doing so because she was engaging directly and openly with this discourse when it was happening, and I think it’s important to talk about her actions and reactions because it provides some context for the background in regards to the ongoing conversations surrounding Hazbin’s SA depictions.

I generally do not like publicly talking about or making judgements on creators as people based on the art they create, because while a creator’s art is almost always influenced by their personality and experiences, it’s not a good way to judge someone’s ENTIRE character. All people are multi-faceted, and the art or media we create usually reflects only part of someone. Additionally, people use art, fiction, and media to explore all kinds of things, including things they would never do or want in real life, and that’s valid and normal. Obviously.

But when a creator publicly expresses an opinion in regards to ongoing discourse, of course people are allowed to discuss it and have their own opinions. Especially when that creator has a lot of fans who look to them as a role-model. Not saying that Vivziepop is responsible for actions of her fans, but when you are a public figure like she is, I do think it’s important to be as mindful as you can about your influence.

With all of that said. Yeah. I was. Incredibly disappointed by Vivziepop’s reaction to this. Because, I actually do agree with a lot of the things she was saying about supporting survivors—

I 100% agree with this. Everyone processes trauma differently, and that should be respected. We should not judge survivors for how they cope or process their trauma.

If this statement was made in response to the all judgement and struggles that survivors generally have to deal with, I would not have any issue with it whatsoever.

But. It wasn’t. Vivziepop said this because people were criticizing Hazbin Hotel—specifically there were survivors who were upset and triggered by scenes from the musical sequence “Poison” that leaked prior to Hazbin’s official release.

Now, obviously, I can’t know her true intent or beliefs. But her bringing all of this up after she had received criticism from survivors about her show leads me to believe that she doesn’t really care about supporting all survivors. Especially since after she said this, she proceeded to dismiss the concerns that several survivors brought to her because “the show hadn’t come out yet”.

To me, this is just hypocrisy.

Now, to be fair. Im also an artist. I understand feeling like your art or story is your baby, and feeling really protective of it. In some ways I was conflicted when all of this was happening back in January, because I get the frustration and hurt that comes with people not liking your art or not giving it a chance.

That can be very disheartening, and definitely feels unfair. I can empathize with Vivziepop in regard to that, because I don’t know how I would handle the amount of criticism her art gets. I’ve had my art criticized pretty harshly online, and it does really hurt. I really can’t imagine how emotionally taxing that is on such a large scale.

But with all of that said, at the end of the day, as creator, especially a creator making something for widespread international audiences, you have to learn how to be okay with the fact that your art, whether it’s music, visual arts, storytelling, or whatever, will not be universally loved. That’s pretty much impossible, and it’s also okay.

And while you obviously don’t have to listen to EVERY bit of criticism you receive, I do think it is vitally important to listen to criticism and concerns when they come from a whole group of people you are trying to represent.

This was Vivziepop’s response to survivors of sexual assault who asked to have their concerns about Angel Dust and the portrayal of his assault also taken seriously:

In my opinion, these replies are all really dismissive. I agree with everything Vivziepop said about survivors who felt represented being spoken over was also wrong. But these are survivors being open about how Vivziepop’s show has already affected them negatively, and the fear that their reactions to and opinions on the show will be, or in some cases—have already been, invalidated and called into question by the Hazbin fandom.

Vivzie’s response to them is that the show hasn’t come out yet, so they are getting upset “preemptively”. It really comes across like their concerns did not matter to Vivziepop, and like it didn’t matter to her that they had already been triggered or felt as if the handling of the scene was fetishistic based on what came out.

She states that her fans are “speaking out on their own experiences and reminding that the scene isn’t out yet”. I’m not denying that some fans do feel represented, but to me, it doesn’t, and didn’t matter if the show hadn’t come out yet.

The full episode can’t magically “take back” the fact that a lot of survivors saw this small clip on its own and it was enough to affect them. And that is just as valid of an experience as people who felt represented.

And listen. No group of people is a monolith and that includes survivors. People WILL have many differing opinions about the way sensitive topics are portrayed, especially when it’s as traumatic as sexual assault and abuse.

I am not saying Vivziepop should have somehow magically concocted a show that handles sexual assault objectively perfectly and pleases every survivor ever. That’s impossible, and I would NEVER ask or expect ANYONE to be able to do that.

But, it’s very clear to me in the interactions above that the people who were upset only wanted their opinions and experiences to be heard and respected as well, and they were essentially told that their feelings didn’t matter.

And to me, Vivziepop’s reaction to all of this was really giving Sia circa 2020:

I really think that, a lot of this could have been mitigated if someone from the Hazbin team, not even necessarily Vivziepop, had just acknowledged, “hey, you’re absolutely in your right to not like the scene and those feelings are valid”.

But there is a very strange sort of hypocrisy that is almost like. Tinted with virtue signaling*??? About listening to all survivors voices, while simultaneously dismissing the voices of survivors that are saying they have already been hurt.

THAT is what bothers me the most. It really seems like the only survivors that a lot of people involved in this discourse, including Vivziepop, were willing to listen to or validate were the ones that already agreed with them.

If you are going to support survivors you DO have to ACTUALLY SUPPORT ALL survivors. Even if they disagree with you.

If you’re still with me, I really really appreciate it. I felt I had to go over all of this to add context, because the concerns those survivors talked about over 10 months ago, foreshadowed the EXACT situation that some people in the Hazbin fandom have now put Limus in.

All because, after the episode came out, they expressed their honest opinions on the subject matter and the way Angel Dust was written in a way fans disagreed with.

I find it really disturbing that, the whole point of Vivziepop’s dismissal was that the show hadn’t come out, and that she said she would “respect” if people had concerns AFTER it came out. But I haven’t really seen any acknowledgment from her that survivors, who after seeing the whole scene, were still negatively affected.

The below is a tweet Vivziepop liked shortly after the episode came out in full.

I agree that any survivors who felt seen by Angel Dust and the show and were invalidated and had their experiences dismissed and questioned by others deserve apologies. But I can’t help but think about the fans who didn’t feel the same, who were hurt, and triggered by the depiction of SA before AND after the show released. I don’t want to read to much into likes, because people like shit for all sorts of reasons, but Vivziepop liking this tweet saying she deserves an apology too does rub me the wrong way, especially after she was told that survivors have ALREADY been hurt.

Don’t those people deserve apologies too? Or at the very least just an acknowledgment that their hurt and concern was valid?? It just comes off to me as a confirmation that Vivziepop doesn’t really want to listen to ALL survivors, just the ones that haven’t criticized her and praised her show.

To clarify—just as Limus did at the end of her video—I AM NOT SAYING THAT SA SURVIVORS WHO DIDNT LIKE THE SHOW’S HANDLING OF SA ARE THE “CORRECT” SURVIVORS AND THAT PEOPLE WHO FELT SEEN AND REPRESENTED BY ANGEL DUST AND THE SHOWS WRITING ARE “WRONG”.

The WHOLE POINT of me going over ALL of this is to take a look at the hypocrisy of many people both in the fandom and outside of it who SAY they care about ALL survivors feelings and experiences, but then call those experiences into question the MOMENT a survivor has an opinion different than their own.

And sadly, I personally believe the creator of Hazbin also contributed hugely to this hypocrisy.

When we look at what happened in January, it now feels weirdly prescient. People are treating Limus’ opinion as if she is personally attacking them, or saying that their experiences are invalid. She did not do that.

It also seems like a lot of people who like Angel Dust and feel he represents them are taking Limus’ critique of the character writing decisions made for Angel Dust, who is not a real person and does not exist, as personal attacks on their real lived experiences. She did not do that either. She was extremely clear that her opinions were in regards to the way Angel Dust was written as a character.

But because Limus critiqued Angel Dust, her experience with abuse has been called into question, just like the above survivors that were concerned about all of this way back in January. This is absolutely fucking unacceptable.

I am saying this to CRITICS AND FANS of Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, and fuck it, honestly ALL fandoms—If you have engaged in this sort of behavior, you have got to stop. I think the love and passion you have for the art that is important to you is beautiful and wonderful. But NOTHING justifies treating other people this way. It does not matter how much you love a certain character or how much they comfort you or what solace you find in them. There is NO EXCUSE for bullying and harassing someone over this shit.

I am saying this fully aware that it may cause people to get mad at me and want to send me hate. And honestly that’s fine. I will deal with it if it comes. But I couldn’t sit here and watch so many people shit on someone for talking about their experiences and opinions again.

Please, if you find the tweets/threads I referenced in this post, DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THEM OR HARASS THE POSTERS. This whole long massive post was all about why we should NOT do that.

When these conversations happen, I often see people just. Putting words into other’s mouths like it’s an Olympic sport. If someone says they don’t like the way Angel is written, they are not saying your experiences are invalid. If someone says they love the way Angel is written, they are not saying you have to love him and feel represented by him too.

Please. Please try to empathize with each other. Or at the very least, maybe just take some time to sit with your feelings instead of harassing others. I’m using Hazbin as an example because it’s a fandom I’ve had experience with recently, but this really does apply to all fandoms.

As I final note—if you love Angel Dust and think he’s the best written character and feel really represented and seen by him, that’s wonderful and I’m really happy to hear that the show was cathartic or comforting for you. Genuinely.

And if you hated the way Angel Dust was written and the show triggered you, I am so sorry that happened. It is so painful to re-live trauma like that, and I hope any that pain you felt from being reminded of what happened eased quickly and gently.

Both of your experiences and opinions are completely valid, and you have every right to express your opinions to others. Your trauma is real, and however you process it and cope with it should not be judged by anyone.

I just ask that we all be more respectful, and try to be curious about other’s perspectives regarding this stuff.

Thank you again for bearing with me through all of this. I hope you have a great day or night.

*I really really HATE the term “virtue signaling” because in MOST cases, I only ever see it being used to dismiss minorities and allies concerns about injustices. But, given the circumstances of this situation, I do think it’s actually appropriate here, given that survivors where expressing their concerns to Vivziepop and she was justifying her dismissal of them by saying the show hadn’t come out yet, and then went on to say that all survivors mattered. I don’t know whatever word I should have used, other than it just being hypocritical. Again I hate that term, and wouldn’t be using it here if I didn’t really believe it was appropriate and accurate.

[enderwolf91]

I wake up to this absolute gem flooding my feed and I'm in love with her for she is me

I haven't even watched the short yet but holy shit the things I've seen make me believe it'll be my absolute favorite

I'll go back to overwatch and venture posting but just know that she is me and I am her in all senses but physical (I wish I could pull off a pastel goth girl look she's so cute)

*edit: I'm reminded to why I decided not to be active in the helluva boss fandom here cuz holy shit scrolling through the tags, it is so full of hate towards others and discourse over the direction of the show that I've barely seen anything positive without seeing something horrendously negative right before or after.

psa to the people who regularly see my posts, I do like Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, especially HB, but there will be very little posts about it on my blog cuz I'm not gonna be dragged into the toxicity that is the fandom. I just wanna enjoy the show and the silly characters without being hated for my personal opinions and likes, if I get asks for HB or HH stuff I'll respond but I won't be do a lot of shit posting like I do for overwatch

[weaselbeaselpants]

Legit Bad-take/Bad-Faith Helluvaverse critics you should not trust if you see them

Interpersonal squabbles within the critical tag are irrelevant, sorry. This here is a genuine warning against users you should keep your distance from in regards to any VivziePop drama-discourse because their names may come up and you should know what it is that crossed the line.

Starlatte/Starvader/HonestHazbinCritiques/OhGodDude and Woomycritiques/RaySquid - Serial harasser(s). Long story incoming. Starlatte was/is a Vivcritical who got involved in the fandom back in 2019/2020 when she was a minor and didn't tell anyone. Her blog on tumblr was HonestHazbinCritiques where she made some good points but also managed to find/be a part of everyone else's takes in the critical community. Her relationship with several criticalblogs turned sour when she started lashing out, talking over people, being accused of faking her age, and doing stuff like arguing with irl sexworkers abt how they should feel about Angel Dust. Whatever her age actually was at the time, she was also sending her own rewrite scripts and fanwritten episodes to Spindlehorse in order to 'fix' Hazbin. In 2021 Star returned to Tumblr under the name "Oh-God-Dude" w/o disclosing to new people who she was while also starting shit. When said new ppl found out her past and got mad at her, she proceeded to block-backtalk every one of them.

Woomycritiques (twitter handle: Raysquid) is a critical blogger who stans Star and calls everyone else in the critical community an obsessed stalker while lashing out herself. She accused others of racism (unfounded), her friends of predation just for being proship (not the 'cest and underage is good'-kind, the "I like some problematic stuff in fic-context"-kind), and heckled Dirgentlemen over how much they should hate Helluva, and more.

Regardless of if you believe Woomy and Star are the same person, which ppl do, they are both -by now- adult persons who have been asked to stop and DIDN'T, which is why people don't trust them. Star and Woom were asked to tone it down, stop making accusations and even asked by many criticals to leave and stop talking about Helluvaverse as she/they seem to have nothing good to say about it. To put that into perspective, cuz I know some HH/HB fans are gonna be reading this: the people who've self-styled themselves antis and criticals begged this person to leave cuz she had nothing nice to say and was being a nuisance. I know the stans think that's all of us anyway, so let that sink in.

LincarRox aka ToyTaker - Creep. Nasty jealous stalker freak who got kicked out of Helluvaverse servers and Aminos for saying nasty shit like how he "wants to put a baby" in Viv. No really. He took his shit and grievances to BadWebComics wiki under the name TheToyTaker while also seemingly trying to get work at Spindlehorse in order to have access to Viv directly and to 'fix' her show. He did so by faking his animation portfolio. BWW did eventually catch on and kick him out but yeah....bad. May or may not still be going under his old pseudonyms, but regardless if you see someone talking weirdly sexually abt Viv while saying they were "let go" both by SH and BWW, get out now. That's probably him.

Animation Call-Out - Bigoted shitlord. Twitter user who rags on Vivz' controversies w other people but also hates gays and BIPOCs. Admitted to submitting one of the anonymous reviews against Spindlehorse "for fun" amidst legitimate ex-employees. All of the reviews, even the ones that seem the most validating/believable should be taken with a grain of salt I believe especially since they are coming to us anonymously, but when a racist person admits to def being one of those fake reviews for "Lolz" sake, that's def when shit's hit the fan.

DoodleToons - Also bigoted creeperlooser. Altright white kid who hates BIPOC existing in anything and admits to hating Viv's stuff for their LGBTisms and 'demons'. Yes, there legit are bad-faith critics who are homophobic. Just because Viv and her crew have a way of saying that's EVERY critic of her work doesn't mean there aren't shitty people out there.

[itsclydebitches]

Have you seen the posts going around saying shit like "If a mutual likes Hazbin Hotel I will block them"?? It's genuinely upsetting me tbh, not just the idea that people don't like the show, but that they despise it so much they can't even stand the thought of someone they know liking the show. It reminds me of the Steven Universe hate train only worse. They also say shit like "the show is just someone saying swear words and expecting you to laugh", and if for a second we put aside the fact that that is blatantly not true, what's wrong with that? I'm allowed to like something that's a bit trash, right? I've already seen two different people I follow reblog posts to that effect (and worse, someone saying all a character boils down to is "i love being sexually abused <3" and i don't know how they ever came to that conclusion) and it's driving me mad. And somehow I just know that they don't actually give a shit about any "controversies" surrounding vivziepop, that's just a convenient excuse for most of them. I don't even care if Vivzie is a bad person, that's none of my business. just live and let live, you know?

Sorry for ranting, you're literally the only blog i follow who posts Hazbin fan content

Rant away, friend! Luckily for me I haven't come across any of those posts yet. Plenty of discourse surrounding whether fans are allowed to make romantic and/or sexual content for Alastor, the expected shipping wars, and - as you say - vague references to Vivzie controversies (which I'm too new a fan to even be aware of yet)... but nothing that's a complete rejection of the show itself. That's probably because I've only engaged with blogs posting a lot of Hazbin content though.

I'm a big fan of old school Internet rules which includes an emphasis on cultivating your own online space. You know, the thing tumblr is explicitly designed for. So in theory I applaud anyone blocking users/tags for a show they're not a fan of. Performatively posting about it more as a way to guilt others for liking Hazbin at all... not so much. If you want to block something just block it. If you're mutuals with someone you both presumably like each others' content. Not all of it necessarily, but enough to have followed in the first place, and often being mutuals for long enough leads to friendship because you're both getting interacting with one another a lot. All of which isn't to say that people don't unfollow mutuals, or that you can't drop a mutual because they've started posting something you dislike. Obviously both situations do happen, but it feels like an extreme enough response that these posters probably aren't actually doing this very often. Most people will wait the mutual out until their interest gets hooked on something new, or block the Hazbin tag and keep the friend, or just block without making a big announcement about it. So posts like that feel more like a way to show off how much you dislike the show and guilt others for their enjoyment which yeah, can be upsetting to see. Especially when, as you say, it costs nothing to just let people like things.

Which might sound hypocritical on my part given my RWBY interests, but I think there's a big difference between critically examining a show while supporting others who genuinely love it, and simplistically blasting it. I COMPLETELY get why Hazbin wouldn't be to everyone's tastes and, like with the SU example, anything that gets popular enough is going to develop its haters (especially cartoons trying to tackle non-childish subjects. That's always going to be a fandom landmine). But if you're going to make claims about a show, at least watch it to ensure you can back up your stance? And if your takeaway is still, "This is the worst fucking thing I've ever watched"... cool. Go forth and write about that on your own, personal blog. But no one should be surprised when they're also blocked for bragging about how many Hazbin fans they've blocked.

[proshipconfessions]

Having a lot of proship mutuals and many mutuals that would be "problematic" by antis standards because the real world is complicated and nuanced and seeing your mutual say all proshippers are pedophiles. Is just. An experience. This is gonna be a long one.

And I could get into the more serious side of things and the psychology of things and philias such as pedophilia, but that's a very nuanced and often triggering topic so. Probably not.

And also seeing Charlie x Alastor (hazbin hotel) be called a proship and being seen as awful to ship. We don't even like the ship ourselves especially if it gets into smut/nsfw territory. But like. What??? It's fine if you don't wanna interact with it. But to essentially lump this really largely benign ship into proshipping because you don't like it.

"it ignores canon that he's aroace and she has a girlfriend." And vivzie used to ship Alastor with Mimzi before making him aroace because "romance didn't fit his story for the show." I heavily still ship Alastor and Mimzi among other Alastor ships. I'm literally aroace too.

"She literally sees him as a dad." I've seen people shipping Carmilla with her own daughters. I even used to ship her daughters cause before the show we didn't know they were sisters. Also character interpretations can be so wildly different too. And many fandom peeps don't even attach heavily to canon. Canon is not the end all be all of fandom.

Like. Alastor x Charlie is the least problematic ship I've seen people ship. Do I like it? Not really, no. It does make me uncomfortable. But to label it in a way as proship (meaning it's bad and people who like it are awful morally since it's an anti definition of proship) is so weird. You don't have to like it. But to lump people in with those "weirdos you hate" because you don't like the ship. When you're clearly someone that hates proshippers is...so gross.

I don't even care about shipcourse or any discourse. It triggers my moral ocd and a lot of it is just freaking out over things that aren't that big of a deal. And ignores any nuanced discussion because antis paint everything black and white because of their personal boundaries. (I used to be more anti cause of my moral ocd and personal triggers for trauma. Yeah. It's a bs mindset.)

There's far worse things to worry about than someone shipping something you don't like or a ship that's illegal. And even with more actually problematic ships like incest and pedophilia ships. It's far more nuanced. And even then, fiction as an outlet actually DOES help ACTUAL pedophiles from offending. Like. When helping to treat pedophilia because it's a mental disorder in the DSM-V. It is encouraged for safe fictional outlets and a supportive environment to lower risk of offending. Removing fictional outlets even IF someone was a pedophile is actually risking more harm. And even then. Most people doing this aren't pedophiles themselves.

I'm a csa survivor too. I've literally looked into this to challenge my beliefs and triggers. Out of pure morbid curiosity to understand it. And it is a LOT more nuanced and complicated than online internet shipcourse can convey. People shipping fictional illegal things aren't hurting others. Most of those just breach containment BECAUSE of antis or because of algorithms on websites that people can't control. I've been more exposed to triggering ships like All Might x Deku because of antis and google images than I have by the creators of the content themselves. When I was more anti, I was far more triggered because of seeing so much of that shit. Now I'm more proship cause I literally don't give a fuck and have more important issues. And like. I barely see triggering ships and content like that. Unless I'm specifically researching things or scrolling on a hyperfixation.

Actually having looked into the psychology and research behind such this. It is a LOT more complicated than antis give credit for. And more complicated than most people on either side care to know. Proshippers are just living their lives. They aren't here for the in depth morals and research behind these things. But if they were, it more heavily supports them.

And having been more of an anti. That shit made my mental health so much worse. Because you genuinely do not know what could be labelled a proshipper thing. It could be something that's fucked up that you like (Attractions are neutral and it is not controllable. If someone were distressed by their attractions then demonizing does not help them seek help. Most people will discover their attractions in their teen years or whenever they hit puberty. And many professionals still don't fully understand philias or kinks or attractions.) or it could be a benign ship that doesn't stick to canon.

There's plenty of ships I don't like. There's plenty of ships that are illegal and make me uncomfortable and upset. And really. The best thing to do is to just scroll or block and move on. That has been far better than me obsessing about these people I hate for doing things I don't like.

And even outside of fandom, these things are not black and white. It's far more complicated. Let. Let random people on the internet ship what they want. You don't have to like it. If it's a ship, even if it's immoral or illegal, let people ship it. If it genuinely helps them, regardless of whether it's "healthy" or not, then it doesn't matter. It is not up to you to decide what is healthy or good for other people. Blocking people you don't like will make you forget about em real quick. Whether it's justified cause they're an asshole or something petty and small.

I'm so tired of mostly antis making it a whole fucking thing because people are complex and complicated and weird. I've been in fandoms since I was 11. I'm an adult now. People will be fine. The only thing hurting fandom spaces is fucking shipcourse and the way people react to "problematic" ships.

Ship and let ship, my dudes.

———

[zeeph-containment-zone]

//sa discussion: really not digging the "you can be seen but never heard" mentality the internet has adapted towards depictions of SA, mainly seeing it today in the recent Hazbin Hotel discourse. "Respectful Depictions," according to the web, apparently can ONLY tell the viewer they were assaulted but the minute they show anything, the fetishization fingers start being pointed and the creators are deemed bad people. As an SA victim and someone who writes about their own experience using their characters, this sits terribly with me. I hate how the internet has created this "sunshine and rainbows" effect regarding discussions of sa because sa is the exact opposite of that. It's messy, it's scary, it's uncomfortable. And if YOU, ESPECIALLY if you're someone who's never been, are upset that you are uncomfortable because you saw an SA scene in a movie, TV show, or otherwise, take a moment to think about how people who actually lived through a situation like that feel before writing a twitter rant about how the scary sides of SA shouldn't be explicitly shown in media. It takes a lot of guts for people to come forward and write about their abuse and they don't deserve to be accused of fetishizing their own experience because they weren't afraid to show the world what happened to them. It's also important to show the dark side of SA because you never know who could be living in a similar situation. That stuff being shown as a bad thing actually™ can help a lot of people process things that have happened to them. It also helps dispel the stereotypical depiction of topics like these (aka the "creepy man in a back alley who drags a random woman behind a dumpster" trope.) There's a very distinct bold line that divides fetishization and genuine portrayal and it's ignored by so many people.

That being said you're allowed to be uncomfortable and feel triggered by depictions. That is extremely valid and people should respect that. You can skip the scenes if you need to, there's resources out there that'll tell you exactly what to skip + they're required to list that content contains things like that in the rating description. What ISN'T okay though is assuming the creator had bad intent because you were uncomfortable and for no other reason, and attacking, speaking over or downlplaying SA victims for feeling differently. (also in terms of referencing this to the hazbin hotel drama, yes i've seen the tweet she made about the MV. I really really think she was actually referencing the dancing spider and not the flashbacks, and I agree it's in distaste because she was probably too dense to think about that. And also no, I'm not watching that shit nor have I ever liked it to begin with. I hate it for several other reasons.)

[catboymoments]

Hey, speaking as someone who actually WATCHED THE SHOW I can tell you that it doesn’t romanticize abuse in any way, and Angel has more depth than you think. I kinda wish you wouldn’t act like everyone who likes Hazbin Hotel doesn’t have a brain, especially when I’ve seen multiple SA survivors enjoying the show and saying that episode 4 really spoke to them.

how many times do I have to tell you people that I don’t want to discuss the deep ins and outs of the discourse of hashbrown motel I DOOONNNTTT. WANNA. OKAY. if you liked it good for you I guess but it still doesn’t change the fact that from the clips I’ve seen and what I know about viv and the people she hires I DONT LIKE IT!!!! It’s not like I’m hating it because it’s trendy to hate it, I’ve seen parts of it and I DONT ENJOY IT !!!!!! MAN!!!

[joshithekitsune]

Hehehe... he's so cute. :3c

Also, these are my close besties: @itsavee4117 @bankobuzzy @ilovedimentio @doodmannboi (Her Tumblr doesn't work properly but if you want to know her go find her Instagram, it's Doodmannboi1). ^^

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I'll be posting mainly about;

- Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

- Super Paper Mario

- Paper Mario⁶⁴

- Ren & Stimpy

- Kirby Right Back At Ya!

- Rayman

- Other Disney related stuff

I'm sort of a multifandom blog. :/

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Before you go off wondering this blog is 13+ to 16+ depending on the content. It's either suggestive/violent or crude humor. (Perhaps artistic nudity). Some of my art may not be suitable for younger audiences.

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My Discord name is @Joshithefuckedupbitch

My Instagram name @ Joshithekitsune

One thing you should know about me is I am a moderate. You don't have to like me, that's valid!👍🏻

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Before you interact with me, I'm on the spectrum, ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). Please be careful to what you say to me. I don't always know what I did or say. I'm doing my best to not be an asshole. And I can be easily paranoid. My sense of humor and swearing may come off as crass and blunt. Be warned.

My other disorders (not fake already been diagnosed): depression, ADD (another form of ADHD), dysgraphia, dyscalcula

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My headcanons, AUs, and opinions maybe different from yours. If you don't have anything positive to say about it, just scroll away.

I do mild critiques on Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, so uh, yeah.

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I do free art requests, (mostly Mario related things but other media is fine, too).

Will draw: fanart, anthro art, simple mechanics, semi realism, surrealism, abstract, suggestive stuff.

Will not draw: straight up NSFW (I will when I'm 18, I promise) fetishes, hyper realism, complicated mechanics, hate art.

Even if the art request is sanitary, I have every right to reject that art request.

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DNI PROSHIPPERS, PEDOPHILES, NECROPHILES, ZOOPHILES, MISOGYNISTS, PRO AI (ART), (TOXIC) LGBTQAI2s+ DISCOURSE AND OTHER BASIC CRITERIA. this doesn't mean I dislike LGBT people, I just don't like people who're extremists. will pull out my rifle if you don't scram. (To put it lightly the block/report button). Most of all do be civil.

This is a welcoming place for LGBT people but don't call me "transphobic" or any type of "phobic" for having a different opinion. I happen to be a bisexual person so don't put your panties in a knot just because I disagree with you. Yep, I'm an old fart! 💨

Also, don't send me any death threats into my ask box. Or you'll be permanently blocked. Sorry folks you can't be anonymous, obviously.

This is VERY important: Gaza and Palestine blogs, DON'T FOLLOW ME OR ASK ME. I refuse to participate in this political movement/trend. Especially the propaganda that has been going on for a while. I'm very neutral about from both sides. This doesn't make me a bad person. It's a very tricky subject for me to get into.

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Most importantly, enjoy my bullshit! :P

[quinnisaghostfr]

intro/byi…

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hi, I’m Quinn :) here’s some basic info…

-my pronouns are they/them & I’m genderfluid/nonbinary ⭐️

-I’m bi and taken :) 🌈

-grade 11 (16 years old :P ) 🌧️

-Canadian 🫶🫶🫶

-I’m really obsessed with music :] here’s my Spotify:

-I’m a huge starkid fan as well as theatre kid in general

-I love silly gay kids cartoons <3

-Simon Petrikov is me FRFR 🤯🤯🤯 (send help)

-AuDHD & BPD

-I really love stuffed animals ✨

-I will likely shitpost a lot

-I do art on occasion

-I have a weird obsession with will wood (I will listen to cicada days on loop for hours on end if I feel so moved as to do so)

-I need tone tags sometimes, please let me know if you want me to always use them with you >_<

-I relate to cicadas in a metaphorical way

-feel free to ask me anything!!!!

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DNI IF YOU:

-are a TERF (if so, fuck you, what’s wrong with you?)

-are a homophobe/transphobe

-are a xenophobe or racist

-don’t support neopronouns or xenogenders (THERE WILL BE NO HATE ON HERE!! >:()

-are gonna start any sort of discourse (ex. slur discourse)

-are a proshipper

-are a pro”life”r

-are truscum or a transmed

-make fun of people for liking things that are unproblematic and shun their interests (every fandom is going to have at least a few bad people, but you don’t get to group every fan together)

-are furryphobic (BRO IT’S LITERALLY COSPLAY)

-hate on therians, otherkins, fictionkins, or otherhearted people, etc.

-tell people to k1ll th3ms3lv3s

-are a conservative

-support tr*mp

-are anti self diagnosis

please just don’t start arguments with me or be disrespectful. I joined this community for fun and I’m not partaking in any debate unless it is absolutely necessary.

(will probably be updated)

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My fandoms & interests:

• Gravity Falls ⭐️

• Better Call Saul ⭐️

• The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals

• Black Friday

• Starkid Productions

• Steven Universe

• Helluva Boss

• Hazbin Hotel

• Invader Zim

• The Owl House

• Don't Hug Me I'm Scared

• The Walten Files

• CRYPTIDS!!!! (I love Fresno nightcrawlers <3)

• Amphibia

• The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy

• Hilda

• Moomins

• Over the Garden Wall (I did a silly closet cosplay of Wirt once :D)

• Dead End: Paranormal Park

• Stardew Valley

• Supernatural/horror/coming of age/ gay/graphic novels/books

• Adventure Time (especially Fionna and Cake)

• Centaurworld

• Infinity Train

• Craig of the Creek

• Ducktales

• Star vs the Forces of Evil

• Jurassic World: Camp Cretaceous

• Minecraft

• Animal Crossing: New Horizons

• Sanrio

• Star Wars Franchise (dont ttm about the sequels or a new hope though 😒)

• the Osemanverse (Radio Silence, Solitaire, Heartstopper, I Was Born for This, & Loveless my beloveds <3)

• Stuffed Animals (RAAAAAAAAA)

• MUSICALS!!!!

• Cruella

• Hercules

• Big Hero 6

• Disney movies in general (some, not all)

• Goblincore

• Grunge

• Kidcore

• Weirdcore

• The Amazing World of Gumball

• Regular Show

• Spiderverse!!!!!!

• Twelve Forever

• Nerdy Prudes Must Die

• Black Friday

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specific tags:

# quinn’s silly rambles from the void (for rambling and shitposting)

(WIP, that’s the only one I’ve thought of so far lmao will update)

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dms and asks are open, feel free to bmf, ask for advice, send random thoughts, etc :}

[just-emerald-star]

It’s fine if you don’t like Hazbin Hotel &/or Helluva Boss. It’s fine to love both or one show. It’s especially fine if you’re in either of those categories and wanna be critical about them both.

What isn’t ok is repeating the same talking points and making up new ones just to start discourse. Just say you don’t like the show and stop acting as if every single thing in it is inherently bad. It’s a show set in hell, so of course certain aspects will be bad in a place full of sinners.

You don’t have to make up reasons to hate the show and could just do what I do: enjoy it while still being critical of it. I have my own criticisms of the show but hey, I’m a lot more positive than negative. But I’m not afraid to criticize the media I enjoy. I sure as hell won’t spend time hating on something I already know I hate. I’ll say my peace and move the fuck on. Life is too short to be dwelling on a show I can’t stand daily. IDK how some do that to begin with.

“But Viv did this thing and-”

Then stop supporting her work honey. She’s very aware of what she’s done and has apologized numerous times. She breathes & suddenly she’s targeted. Even when her shows aren’t airing, she’s put in the spotlight.

Viv isn’t perfect and I do wish she’d resist responding to every little thing and focus on her work and mental health/wellbeing instead. I love it when creatives choose to do that and stand firm on what they’ve created.

TL;DR Please just learn to say you don’t like a piece of media, accept that it’s not for you and go watch something that IS FOR YOU.

[transandgaybutworse]

Welcome to the Circus!

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Hello! I'm your locally hated circus act, You can call me Alastor or Al the Clown, whichever you prefer!

I use He/they pronouns mostly, but if you wanna have some fun, here are my neopronouns!

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I don't have a super unique DNI list but I thought it might be useful to state it anyways!

Do Not Interact:

☆ Homophobic, transphobic, ect.

★ Racists, White supremacists ect.

☆ Pedo, MAP, MAP supporter ect.

★ Lesbian separationists, transmeds, exclusionists, anti-neopronouns ect.

☆ Against gender nonconforming people, especially GNC trans people.

★ Misogynists, man-haters, people who say “kill all men”, radfems, TERFs, ect.

☆ Proshippers, discourse blogs, ect.

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Fandom's I'm currently in! I rotate between these ones the most often and if you wanna talk about them through asks I'd love it!

☆ Fnaf

★ The World of Mr. Plant

☆ Sanders Sides

★ Helluva Boss

☆ Hazbin Hotel

★ Shadow & Sonic the hedgehog (the characters specifically)

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I'm not sure if anyone is interested but here are my Side blogs!

★ Incorrect sanders sides quotes - @randomtssincorrectquotes

☆ Lovecore blog - @lovecore-loverboy

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Fun facts about me because why not!

★ I make object heads out of cardboard as a hobby! That's actually how I found out about TWOMP!

☆ I own 2 purses that go with a pair of earrings! 1 is a red spotted mushroom and the other is a jack-o-lantern!

★ My favorite flower is tulips, especially lilac tulips!

☆ I'll dress up as a clown on occasion with a little party hat!

★ I write poems about all kinds of things, but usually about love or how I'm feeling!

☆ I've made a bunch of kandi and have made a few of my own earrings including some out of mini uno cards!

★ I absolutely love deer, they're my favorite animal!

Thank you to anyone who read this full thing, Have a fun filled day! Also feel free to send asks anytime, I love answering those!

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[redr0sewrites]

About Me !!!

figured I'd do a page like this since ive seen other do something similar :)

🥀Pronouns: they/them

🥀Sexuality: queer w a bias for woman, also probably somewhere on the ace spectrum

🥀Gender: who knows? not me 🫠

🥀Race: Italian/Caucasian

🥀Mbti: infj

🥀Likes: art, reading/writing, gothic music, eyeliner, animals, fandoms/fanfiction, weird niche facts

🥀Dislikes: violence, arguing, rude or insensitive people, anything pertaining to vomit or getting sick, im very emetophobic :/

🥀 Favorite song: Vampire Empire by Big Thief

🥀Current Top 5 Fav Fandoms (in order):

The Amazing Digital Circus

Marvel

Hazbin Hotel

DC Comics

Marauders/Harry Potter

🥀Please Interact If...

you are apart of any of the fandoms i write/draw for! (especially if u want to chat about these fandoms or send in writing requests ♥️)

you write fanfiction! i love talking to fellow writers and i desperately need more writer mutuals

you like to create or enjoy art of any kind in general, whether it be drawing, writing, or music

you are a fellow goth, or have an appreciation for any alt subcultures

you like listening to my ramblings, inner thoughts, and oversharing on the internet

overall, i am probably more scared of you than you are of me! i am SO bad at interacting w people on here and there have been so many instances where ive wanted to interact w someone or be mutuals w them and i was too scared. trust me, as long as your not creepy, i will def interact with you too! i love getting to chat w people and make new friends/mutuals

🥀Please Do Not Interact If...

you are sexist, ableist, homophobic, zionist, racist, bigoted, or against any minority in general

you want to argue about any of these topics, or cause discourse in general. this is a discourse free space and i do not want to argue with anyone- if u dont like me just block me

you dislike my writing and feel the need to comment on it. i mean this respectfully, but again, if you dislike my writing so much that you feel the sudden urge to send me hate in my inbox or comment something rude, i would genuinely rather you just block me

you ask too many personal questions or are being creepy

you want to flirt with me when i don't know you or have never interacted w you

finally and most importantly, the main thing that irritates me most on here and causes me to not want to interact with people is how they treat me when asking for requests or coming into my inbox. if u don't read my requesting rules, or if u are just rude or pushy about me not writing fast enough, save us both the trouble and dni.

🥀Current Writing Status: recovering from some writers block, also working on some larger projects for november so i may not post as consistently for a while. i have a lot of WIPS and a lot of asks that im trying to get through, but requests r still open! the 2k event will probably be ending soon, so please send in any last minute requests‼️

pls feel free to ask any (non intrusive) questions!!!! i love interacting w people and i love writing <3

[vincent-marie]

Y'know, I remember seeing crap about ageism within fandom. That like you're "too old" to be in fandom if you're over 30.

Like we ALL know that's some ageist bullcrap in of itself.

But, the grouchy, tired, cynical part of me is starting to think that the reality is that we're more of a mind of, "... I'm getting too old for this moralistically competitive shit."

A lot of folks within fandom, younger folks especially, can't seem to just let morally ambiguous stories be morally ambiguous. That it can't just be a moral gray area, they have to argue that it's either all black or all white.

It's just not a healthy way to engage with fiction.

I was 18 when I saw the old proshot of Stephen Sondheim's SWEENEY TODD, before the Hollywood vanity project of a movie came out.

I love the stage version for its elements of melodrama, that even though most of the characters were AWFUL people you could get behind why they did what they did. (For some of them, at least. The Judge & the Beadle deserved to get slaughtered from the start.) It was cathartic for me as someone dealing with post-high school PTSD but also worked as a cautionary tale about how self-destructive revenge is.

But I feel like if it were in vogue today folks would be all like Team Todd or Team Lovett or the like. COMPLETELY missing the point of the show itself. Much like the discourse I've seen around HAMILTON.

Or ENCANTO.

Or HELLUVA BOSS.

Or HAZBIN HOTEL.

(Makes me glad I was never active in the BOJACK HORSEMAN fandom. Would've hated to be that close to all the hate towards Dianne.)

Anyway, I don't even really know where I'm going with this. I'm just venting my frustrations & why I'm finding myself quicker to block my fellow fans when I feel that their attitudes are muddying the waters for media that I like, making it a lot less fun & less intellectually fulfilling for me.

I'm only in my mid-30s & already I'm like, "Get off my lawn & go watch some older movies! Learn your history, yeh damn kids!"

[firecrackerhh]

You know how a lot of antis seem to have contradictory viewpoints on hazbin and Helluva?

Like how they’ll complain one minute that Ozzie isn’t bad enough for discouraging rape but the next minute they’ll complain about how characters like Valentino exist?

I see people put these groups together (I have myself, I will admit) but I just had an epiphany.

Guys, the people who make these complaints are three entirely different groups of people.

The people who complain that Viv’s hell or the characters in it aren’t bad enough are usually edgelords who get off on making people angry by making dead baby jokes or whatever, they probably heard that Viv’s stuff is meant to be “edgy” but it isn’t up to their standards, so they whine.

These people are still mentally 14 and thus their opinions should not be treated with any degree of seriousness.

Then there’s the religious people who as expected are easily offended crybabies over the idea that someone wants to turn hell into a place of not-so-eternal-suffering and since they don’t like it when people try and reclaim hell (because they don’t like it when you try and take away the one thing that THEY believe to be a threat towards those they don’t like) they bitch about it.

These people are annoying as sin and frankly anyone this obsessed with trying to tell other people how to live their lives should go and get their own. Also if you hate or are disgusted by LGBT people just cuz they’re gay or whatever else and you then decide to use religion as an excuse to justify that hatred/disgust, frankly you’re a weak person.

Religion should make you a better person. Not turn you into an asshole.

If I was God I would be fucking pissed at you people.

Then there’s…(sigh) the wokescolds. Not sure if there’s a better name for them.

These ones I see a lot. Especially on here.

These people (far as I can tell) are usually people who want to give off the illusion of being a good person without actually putting in much effort. They usually waste their time arguing about insignificant discourse and cancelling people for all kinds of reasons, even tho said cancelling barely actually does anything anyway.

These people are a special kind of annoying and their version of activism is usually meaningless and their morals and actions at times are contradictory.

You can’t claim to be a good person when you’re harassing people over liking a fucking cartoon.

You can’t claim to believe in any kind of reform when you refuse to let the past be the past, and insist those who’ve changed haven’t changed at all.

You can’t claim to be supportive of survivors of abuse if you shit all over one of their coping mechanisms.

Complaining about LGBT rep is fucking absurd. There is no such thing as “perfect” representation. Every time they complain about the existence of this or that gay character, complain about “bad representation” it frankly sounds like they would prefer said representation not exist at all.

These people are no better than the people they bitch about.

Hypocrites. All of them. Kinda gross tbh.

At the end of the day, no matter what, these people all hate Viv’s stuff, I just think in order to fight back against these people, we gotta know who exactly you’re fighting with yknow?