#bruce wayne is carrie kelley's parent

[internetgiraffekid1673]

Did you know you can move onto other brainrots and STILL be stuck brainrotting on the old thing too? My brain is a decaying piece of wood that has become an essential breeding ground for several species of rot. One of them is still the BatFam variety, so onto the next member!

Initial traces of Carrie Kelley, my child! Be honest, how many of you who have seen the Nightwing and Red Hood posts thought that I was doing Tim next? Well HA! Joke’s on you, I make the rules here! I have a very specific order in my head, and I will stick to that order!

Carrie is technically an elseworld’s Robin from The Dark Knight Returns, but Robin is my favorite superhero, and anyone who has been Robin will get my attention (yes Robin. Not Batman or Nightwing or any of the individual characters who have been Robins. Robin as a hero, regardless of who it is, is my favorite). At this point, she’s actually graduated to Catgirl and then her own iteration of Batwoman, but in my head, she’s the same age as Damian or younger, so she gets to stay Robin in my art for a bit.

I did two traces here because, unlike other Batfam characters, Carrie is in so few comics that I can’t just FIND a perfect, full body action pose from an angle that I like. The first trace is by far the most popular and easy to find picture of her, but it has her hair blowing around in the wind. This is a Problem, you see, because Carrie’s hair is a special challenge for me. In The Dark Knight Returns, she has this very distinctive hair shape that I do not like looking at OR drawing. So I knew the pose I used for my reference was going to need to be a pose where I could update her hairstyle. But, I also needed a full body, and that first photo is iconic, so two for the price of one again.

Stylization time! Carrie was honestly really easy to stylize, her hair is just a bit of a nightmare for me. I finally got a handle on it after the complete project, but it took a WHILE! Anyway, I more or less just lifted her updated hairstyle from her Batwoman costume and some cosplayers. And no, I’m not giving her pants. Damian and Tim are edgy Robins, they can have pants. Dick, Jason, and Carrie are not edgy Robins, so they get short shorts. I did give up on coloring her sleeves green. Too much of one color for me to effectively handle when her gloves overlap her sleeves. Also, I need to draw more characters with capes. They’re so fun to draw!

Characterization pose! In the comics, Carrie wears her goggles as a civilian too. I interpret this as her needing glasses, so I gave her regular glasses instead because wearing the same distinctive goggles you wear as a superhero is maybe not the best way to keep your identity secret. Comics Carrie has like one friend that you don’t see after she puts on the costume, and her parents don’t remember they have a kid, so it’s not like she has a whole lot of people to be hiding her identity from, but it’s the thought that counts. Schoolmates and random civilians and nosy reporters and all that.

I put her in a Girl Scout uniform for her civvy outfit because I think that it’s important to her character. The whole reason Batman took her on was because she was 1) crazy/traumatized/determined enough to buy herself a Robin costume, fight petty crime on her own, and follow him into dangerous situations and 2) used her Girl Scout first aid training to save batman’s life and splint his arm after he got his sh*t rocked in an ill-advised fight. I figured a salute, even if it’s a bit of a sassy one, was a good pose for her not just because of this, but also because The Dark Knight Returns is a very depressing comic, and so Batman calls her “good soldier.”

If you saw the first two posts, you may notice that I did not trace the hero text for this one, and that I used the same font for both names. This is because 1) I didn’t feel like the regular Robin font with the spiky R fits Carrie’s vibe, but she doesn’t have any comics covers of her own I can steal from and 2) I feel like Carrie’s personality is the same as Robin and Carrie. Unlike with almost everyone else, there’s no posturing, no distinction, no divide there. So the same font works for both personas.

Nightwing Edition

Red Hood Edition

[wesavegotham]

Sometimes you just look at something and it gets worse with every second you think about it.

[incorrectbatfam]

What your LEAST favorite batfam member says about you

Dick Grayson: You think life is over and people become shriveled-up hags at 30

Jason Todd: You're an Arrowfam stan

Tim Drake: Your favorite Robin is either Jason or Damian

Damian Wayne: You call children "crotch goblins"

Duke Thomas: You own something from your childhood that would be worth a lot of money now had you not taken it out of the original packing

Cullen Row: You've spent a lot of your early teens struggling to accept your identity and in doing so behaved like a douche on Roblox

Stephanie Brown: You created a TikTok to make fun of TikTokers but that doesn't change the fact that you're still on TikTok

Cassandra Cain: You were weirded out by the alt kids in school only to realize later in life they had more courage than you by expressing themselves without caring about what others think

Barbara Gordon: You had a college reading level in 6th grade that stopped mattering once you entered college where everyone was the same as you and you're still salty about it

Harper Row: Your parents didn't let you dye your hair

Carrie Kelley: You had an unhealthy relationship with a stranger on Discord where you learned the meaning of gaslighting firsthand

Kate Kane: You didn't like the Barbie movie

Helena Bertinelli: You had a crush on someone who was way out of your league but took a shot anyway and they rejected you and now every time you see someone pretty you seethe with envy

Luke Fox: You think you can take a grizzly bear in a fight when your only hobby is watching Twitch streamers and eating cool ranch Doritos

Bette Kane: You had a Wattpad Mary Sue self-insert who had all the members of One Direction falling for her and was a vampire wizard demigod that won the Hunger Games but that's a secret you plan on taking to your grave

Alfred Pennyworth: Britain fucked over your country

Selina Kyle: You know a lot about sex for someone who hasn't even gone on a date

Bruce Wayne: You stand by your guns when you say eat the rich and don't make exceptions for the "wholesome" billionaires

[to-the-stars8]

Warnings: Mention of suicidal thoughts

So, anyone who wants to hear it, here’s how I think the story of Batman and all of his Robins should have gone in terms of just writing it like it was story. Mind you, most of the basic elements of the Robin's backstory are gonna obviously be in here, just fyi if you just see things that you already know. I am would love to hear what you guys think, too!

Now, quick disclaimer, I’m just going to go with the four main robins only because I know them best— other robins such as Carrie Kelley or Stephanie Brown I’m not as familiar with. I hope to one day to also extend this to other sidekick/people Batman works with, but that’ll be a separate post. Anyway, one more warning; this will be long. 

Starting off with the death of Dick Grayson’s parents. Bruce sees them die, and instantly makes the connection between himself and newly orphaned Dick Grayson. It's one of the main reasons why Bruce takes him in. After all, he was once a boy so riddled by trauma and pain that he thought (at least in the beginning of being Batman) that violence and vengeance was the only answer. So, when Bruce adopts Dick, he doesn't want him to go down the same path. This is where I want to the conflict between Bruce trying to be not only a better person for Dick, but to also attempt to hold onto the feelings that drive his vengeance. Because, the way I would write it, Bruce is still pretty new at being Batman, he hasn't yet realized his "mission" isn't just getting his revenge on Gotham's criminals—It's creating a better life for the people there so they, too, wouldn't have to go through what he did. Though, another small disclaimer, I'll admit that I am missing a few pieces there.

Back to the main topic, if I lose you at all blame the ADHD, so Dick comes to Wayne Manor where he's angry at the world for what happened to his parents. Bruce, who is probably in his mid-twenties at this point, has no clue how to be a parent. He doesn't want to overstep his boundaries with Dick, but the boy is increasingly becoming angrier and angrier. The idea of Dick becoming anything like Bruce, in terms of being Batman, doesn't cross his mind because, unlike some DC writers, I don't think Bruce was actively looking for child soldiers.

Anyway, there is already the underlying push and pull factor between the two, which I think will probably define the rest of their relationship. And, like mentioned before, this is where I would want Bruce to try to be a better Batman, relying not on violence because he can see how it's affects others.

To further explain in a round-a-bout way, young Dick and Bruce are essentially mirrors of each other. And, I don't think Bruce entirely approves of how he, meaning Bruce himself, acts. Hence, why he begins to change Batman from a vengeful, violent vigilante (say that five times fast) to a hopeful knight of Gotham. Dick is his driving force of change, as well as the other Robins. So, when Bruce finally realized that Dick won't simply stand by and be the little boy that he should be—He gives him a chance to be something better than Batman. To begin his career as a vigilante as a hero with hope rather than rage. He's reluctant to do it, because he loves Dick. (Granted, Dick Grayson's Robin is absolutely filled with rage, but, in my story, Bruce is trying to lead from example)

And, just to move through the rest of it quickly so this isn't the same word count as the fucking constitution, as Dick grows so does Bruce. Batman is hopeful, and Bruce is gaining a family. Granted, it's small, but it's there. Along the way, he makes friends. Dick is the reason for this, though some credit can be given to Bruce himself. Despite being angry, Dick will always be outgoing, it's one of the best traits his parents passed onto him—And, he passes that along to Bruce. He begins to learn how a family functions, even if it's a hint of it. he is starting to realize there is more beyond the mask.

So, when the relationship between them starts to break down I would want to see that opposite reaction in the other relationships around Bruce. Because, before Dick, it was isolation, facade, anger, and Batman. Now, when he leaves, it's just that again.

I want to see this internal struggle between Dick letting Bruce be his father and letting him be his partner. Because, despite being similar, one holds more resent than the other. Dick can't stand that Bruce is trying to parent him because he had family, and now they were gone. He doesn't want to have a replacement family nor does he want to lose it again. With Batman, there comes the difference between ideologies. As Bruce strays away from untethered violence into something a bit more calmer, Dick is still filled with that same anger, causing a clash.

Eventually, it hits a breaking point when Bruce takes away the one thing that Dick himself created, the rope in their game of tug of war breaks. Dick leaves, Bruce isolates, and it seems that Gotham once again dissolves back to how it used to be.

Then, Bruce meets Jason. And, it's not like with Dick. It's different. Jason wasn't filled with anger or lost hope, he was a happy, hopeful kid. He wanted to be a kid, and Robin just happened to be a good fit for him, too. So, this is really when Bruce becomes Bruce not Batman. Bruce had gotten the taste of that with Dick, but Batman always seemed to have some tug in their relationship. At this point, I want to see Bruce realize just how much that affected his relationship with Dick and feel the remorse over that. I would want to see Bruce reach out to his eldest son, and be rejected because Dick is still wounded. In fact, Dick himself, despite legally being an adult, is a kid. He's hurt over Bruce essentially replacing, in his eyes, and finding a "better" son. This drives in harder the idea of Bruce wanting to not stop being Batman, but put more of an effort of just being Dad/Bruce. Again, Bruce is learning.

Back to Jason. Jason, in this story, would be one of the first Robins to really experience Bruce as a father. And, that turns the relationship of Batman and Robin less into a partnership and more into a father-son duo without one trying to control the other as much. Yet, there's still the distinction of just how different Jason is compared to Dick and Bruce. Jason never had a family, not a stable one at least, nor did he grow up financially stable. Jason was essentially the average poor Gotham kid, which did kick up a lot of backlash between the two. Yet, nothing too serious. In fact, I feel like Bruce would probably start being a lot more lenient with Jason at the beginning with just how easy he was as not just a sidekick but as a son.

And this is what I believe would lead to Jason leaning more into his violent tendencies compared to Dick. Now, before the torches do light, hear me out. I do not think Jason is an outwardly or inherently a violent kid. I think with the innate sense of justice Bruce would instill all of his Robins combined with being exposed to violence socially and now personally, it would lead to Jason seeing some flaws in Batman's logic. He might sense that since one person continuously abuses the system and gets away with hurting/murdering people that it might be better to eliminate the problem all together. This idea growing on Jason would lead to the death of Felipe, causing a huge and sudden rift between the two. Ultimately leading to Jason being kidnapped, tortured and killed all in pursuit of finding someone who might accept him despite Bruce never having rejected for what he did.

Eventually, after Jason died Bruce is in this hole of regret, remorse, and overall probably a bit suicidal. Afterall, he lost his son and feels like because he let Robin be that it caused Jason's death. So, when Dick re-enters the picture with Tim Drake, a boy finding and wanting to be Robin, I can see Bruce absolutely lashing out in grieving anger. Because, again being Robin had killed his son and he would be damned if that happened again. Yet, Tim being Tim was determined to show Bruce that it wasn't him or Robin that killed Jason—It was a mad man and a woman who deceived her son. Kind of playing into the idea it's not Robin who makes the boy, it's the boy who makes Robin. Not only that, but Tim is adamant that he will be Robin to not only prove this but also to show that Robin and Batman are two sides of the same coin. Ultimately, reverting back to Batman and Robin being a partnership instead of that father-son duo. At least, at first.

Bruce is protective of Tim, but there is definitely the drift in their relationship. Because, as we all know Tim's story, he still had parents when he became Robin so there was no need to fill that son position, for the lack of a better term, Jason had left behind. So, in a sense, I can see this relationship between the two starting off more like a boss and worker. Yet, as they continue to work together, Bruce would probably learn that Tim is making Robin, not the other way around. At this point, also, I can see Dick be more involved and bridge that gap with his father after seeing just how deeply he cares for his children.

Then, Tim's parents are murdered and I think the guilt would come back to Bruce, albeit a bit less extreme. He would feel responsible for putting this child in this situation and want to take him out of that. Yet, Tim is pushing against not only as a partner but as a potential son that which would definitely affect their relationship. This is why I personally would think that Tim and Bruce's relationship would be the most strained out of all of the Robins, though the two do share a deep connection it's just not as serious, again lack of a good term, as the other's.

Because I'm slowly getting more tired, I am going to try my best to get through Damian's. Again, guys, feel free to ask questions because this is just surface level stuff. If anyone makes it to this point, anyway or even reads this lol.

Alright, so just jumping into Damian, I think Bruce would treat Damian as he would have Jason. Unlike all the other Robins there's already a establish connection between the two before they even meet. I mean, Damian is literally his bio son and Damian is told that all throughout his life, so it would be a more of a one-sided connection at first then it grow on Bruce. Damian doesn't need training unlike all of his other predecessor's, the boy's already pre-programmed with skill. The major issue would be honing in on the assassination part of Damian and essentially Bruce's trauma from his other children.

So, right from the gate, I think Bruce would try to be a father to his Damian rather just Batman. And, I think Damian, at first, would not respond well to that. For his whole life, it's just been fight or die, nothing in-between. I think it would be interesting to see Bruce fall back into being a father, which, at this point, he already would have been since Dick returned and Tim and him slowly got closer. I think Bruce would be tougher on Damian simply because of how worried he would be for his safety and well-being. Bruce knows the League of Assassins and how it is absolutely no place for a young boy. So, Bruce would try to create normalcy like he did with Jason, but also be tough like he was on Dick. Overall, I think there's the same push and pull with them like with Bruce and Dick, but not to the extent as it was. After all, I would like to think at this point, Alfred convinced Bruce to go to therapy. Though, it can be said the two would also share a close personal relationship like Jason and Bruce.

I would go on, but, right now, I have a huge headache, so might edit later.

That's pretty much it guys. I know there might be some contradictions in this, but, to be fairly honest, this is just a streamline of thought. I think I read over this once, so any inconsistencies are just left. Please ignore. Or point out. It's pretty much either or. Again, I would love to know what you guys think. Hope you enjoyed this rant. I am going to bed now. ❤️❤️❤️

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

It's not Recruitment It's Desperation

by Mythic_Robyn Gotham city has seen many horrors since its founding. Gang violence, mass murder, attempted genocide at least once, unparalleled drug and human trafficking. Then Thomas and Martha Wayne were shot in an alleyway and everything changed. Even if it took years Bruce Wayne would make sure as few suffered what he did as possible. Doing it alone was, of course, a bad idea. Gotham’s solution was to send kids his way. At first having a prodigy was helpful, then it became two, then three, four, six and before Bruce knew it his mansion of empty rooms was far from empty. Words: 1242, Chapters: 1/10, Language: English Series: Part 5 of Spector's of the Present Fandoms: Danny Phantom, Batman - All Media Types Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Categories: Gen Characters: Bruce Wayne, Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Tim Drake (DCU), Dick Grayson, Damian Wayne, Barbara Gordon, Carrie Kelley, Jason Todd, Sam Manson, Duke Thomas, Alfred Pennyworth, Jim Gordon (DCU) Relationships: Dick Grayson & Bruce Wayne, Jason Todd & Bruce Wayne, Barbara Gordon & Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake & Bruce Wayne, Bruce Wayne & Damian Wayne, Stephanie Brown & Bruce Wayne, Cassandra Cain & Bruce Wayne, Duke Thomas & Bruce Wayne, Carrie Kelley & Bruce Wayne, Sam Manson & Bruce Wayne, Batfamily Members & Alfred Pennyworth, Batfamily Members & Bruce Wayne, Selina Kyle/Bruce Wayne, Jim Gordon & Gotham City Additional Tags: Ecto-Contaminated | Liminal Sam Manson, Good Parent Bruce Wayne, Bruce Wayne Tries to Be a Good Parent, Batfamily (DCU), Jason Todd is a Batfamily Member, Duke Thomas is a Batfamily Member, Good Sibling Cassandra Cain, Good Sibling Damian Wayne, Ghost Zone Culture (Danny Phantom), Jim Gordon is So Done, Bruce Wayne is Bad at Communicating, Protective Bruce Wayne, Protective Batfamily (DCU), Carrie Kelley is Robin, Sentient Gotham City via https://ift.tt/1LWpFYK

[ao3feed-superbat]

Happy Hare where have you been? Buried all your children.

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/74AIWYp by ToastedToad "Alfred," Bruce growled, his voice low and dangerous. "Find them." Alfred bowed his head slightly, a predatory gleam flashing in his eyes. "As you wish, Master Bruce. It will be done." As Alfred vanished back into the shadows, Bruce stood motionless, his heart pounding with a twisted combination of longing and fury. His children had escaped him once. That would not happen again. They would be found. And they would never leave his side again. ----------- aka the Justice League become vampires (focusing on Bruce and Clark) and track down their kids who are on the run to turn them and bring em home. Words: 1428, Chapters: 1/7, Language: English Fandoms: DCU, DCU (Comics), Batman - All Media Types Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings, No Archive Warnings Apply Categories: M/M, Other Characters: Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Tim Drake (DCU), Damian Wayne, Clark Kent, Kon-El | Conner Kent, Jonathan Kent, Diana (Wonder Woman), Duke Thomas, Barbara Gordon, Stephanie Brown, Carrie Kelley Relationships: Clark Kent/Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake & Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake & Dick Grayson & Jason Todd & Bruce Wayne & Damian Wayne, Bruce Wayne & Damian Wayne Additional Tags: Dark, Alternate Universe - Dark, Angst, Fluff and Angst, Alternate Universe - Vampire, Vampire Turning, Possessive Behavior, Overprotective, Vampire Bruce Wayne, Vampire Clark Kent, Dark Justice League, Dark Found Family, Forced found family, kinda kidnapping, but again theyre their kids sooooo, found family but dark and kinda messed up, dark found family has a death grib on my soul, Dark Bruce Wayne, Dark Clark Kent, semi-bittersweet ending, Bittersweet Ending, Platonic Yandere, Platonic Cuddling, parental yandere, Fledglings, Infantilism, Forced Infantilism, Batfamily (DCU), Batfamily (DCU) Feels, Overprotective Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent is Kon-El | Conner Kent's Parent, Other Additional Tags to Be Added read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/74AIWYp

[jaytodd2]

Brenna Martha Wayne

Face Claim: Gemma Arterton

Secret Identity: Owlette

She’s the female Bruce; a mix of Batman and Owlman. Basically golden age Batman when he first debuted in the Detective Comics, before the no-kill rule.

Never had a robin/talon. Like it’s not that she wouldn’t have taken them in… they just didn’t exist 🤩

Ends up in Batsy’s universe.

A little after Jason comes as the Red Hood but before the reveal.

Our girl is a detective so she scopes the scene first.

Realizes that she doesn’t exist in this world and her parents had a son instead of a daughter.

Puts the pieces together that Jason is RH quicker than anyone. It’s not because she’s one of the world’s greatest detective, but she’s in another universe. Clearly anything can happen including coming back from the dead.

Remember, she’s a bit like Owlman so she doesn’t really care that Jason has became a crime lord. She’s not afraid of teaming up with him either once she gets herself situated.

She uses the name Brenna Martha Van Derm.

The last name comes from her great-great-grandmother on her father’s side.

With her and Jason on the same side so to speak, it’s an easier takeover.

The showdown between Bruce, Joker, and Jason goes somewhat the same yet differently. Jason still gets hit by the batarang, but she puts a bullet in Joker. Maybe five just to be safe.

She and Talia are coparenting Jason!

She joins Halia’s relationship because I am a Hal/Talia shipper. Don’t judge me.

She does start her own company and quickly jumps to billionaire status. The Batfam can’t find anything illegal on her because she and jason are them so its definitely a circle of agitation.

Terry and Matt McGinnis, Drake Winston, Carrie Kelley, Respawn are all taken in by her.

I like to think that they went to Bludhaven after Dick left and set up base there.

Do the Bats eventually find out the truth? Yes, but like it doesn’t change anything. She’s there to stay, and they’ve already gaslit the entire world that Talia’s son Jason Todd Head is not the same Jason Todd-Wayne. It is incredibly rude and disrespectful to the Wayne family to continuously make such baseless accusations.

Ra’s just happy he has The Detective back in his family now. At this point, he doesn’t even care that she’s a woman.

Hal has two badass wives that can kill him with their thighs and knows he needs to marry them as soon as possible. He already has the marriage licenses drafted and will forge their signatures. He does not care.

Damian having a crisis because he already has a mother so she can’t be his mother and she’s the female counterpart of his father but he has a father and things get a lot more confusing when she marries Talia because she’s his new stepmother who’s the counterpart of her father who is her mother’s ex husband. he is going through it.

She joins the Justice League Elite and is a member of the Justice League Queer.

[dotthings]

Episode 2 of Gotham Knights was highly enjoyable. The cast is getting more and more into their groove and I got even more into the story. Appreciation to this series for giving me heists and sword-fighting and found family and angsty Robin feelings.

Misha Collins is bringing the quiet gravitas and sense of authority and goodness, so Harvey Dent (of all people) is the calm rock in the storm. He's giving this ballast. The kids are terrific and I enjoy the chaotic rag tag, having to rely on each other against all odds story for the fugitives but without a gravitas player like Misha to balance, the thing would lack anchoring.

Unsurprised that Cressida is untrustworthy. Although this was so obvious and revealed so early, I'm not completely convinced we know all her loyalties. And does she actually care about Turner? How did Bruce wind up with a COO person in his employ. Did he have a longer game in doing that?

Carrie Kelley is reminding me of the calm, multi-tasking Robins like Dick and Tim. Also her sad little face when confronted with Bruce's Batman things. Navia Robinson is really crushing it in this role. I also enjoy how Carrie went right for grabbing as much bat-gear from his office as she could and when the group was trapped, zip-lined everyone out. Her hiding those journal pages from Turner--she's trying to protect him from something. And she should have just stolen the whole journal, leaving the ragged torn pages alerts Turner that there's something to be found. The fact this was lampshaded in dialogue, so it's not writers being sloppy, so maybe it's meant as Carrie having a lapse in judgment, or maybe Carrie subconsciously wanted Turner to know pages were removed. She's hiding stuff from him but wants him to find out eventually? We'll see where that leads.

That battle Carrie and Turner had with Talon was awesome.

Very interested in Turner's realization that Bruce was in fact training him, preparing him, after all. Was it Bruce going cautiously to teach another Robin, or was it something else? This entire Court of Owls business has me suspicious and Bruce wanted Turner to know sword-fighting. Maybe not Robin training. Maybe self-defense. If the Court of Owls hunted his parents, his grandparents, if the Waynes have been the prey of the Court of Owls for centuries, he wanted Turner prepared. Maybe he was teaching Turner so he could take down the Court of Owls if he fell.

Cullen, Harper, and Duela debating over whether to just skip town -- what's great about that is I felt sympathy for all 3 of their pov's. Cullen caring about others and why he didn't want to abandon his new name. Harper wanting to look after her brother. Duela, in a way, being both right and wrong. The one sane person in the room because seriously, them going back into Wayne Tower was a stupid plan and them getting jailed or dead won't help anything, but Duela's looking out for number one nihilism and eagerness to abandon her allies wasn't the right move either.

And her allies (tentative friends) came to save her and Duela's brain cannot compute. Turner pointing out to her, she's worth saving too.

I am not trusting Brody. He's going a little too hard on the whole "I am so much nicer to you than that guy, Steph. Look how noble I am. As opposed to that loser. Look at all I do for you, Turner asks you for things." Yeahhhh I'm going to stick with Turner. Turner and Steph's friendship is one of the show's anchoring points and I am enjoying it immensely. It's not going to be without its troubles and complications and strains, but Brody's deliberately trying to drive a wedge and that's highly suspicious.

The belfry set continues to be my favorite.

Steph and Turner's rose window meetings give me joy.

[darker-dc-dimensions]

Bruce Thomas Wayne

Fist of Vengeance

Emojis used:♟️🦇

(placeholder image until i find something better)

General Information

First name: Bruce

Middle name(s): Thomas

Surname: Wayne

Age: unknown.

Date of birth: unknown.

Race: Half Jewish from his mother’s side, white on his fathers side.

Gender: Cis Male

Sexuality: Bisexual, leans towards men.

Current residence: None, he travels across universes at will.

Relationship status: Single

Social status: Doesn’t have a specific status as he jumps universes regularly, but in the big picture of everything he’s a very big deal as he’s the fist of Khal (An oc of mine, who is the creator of all magic and existence)

Universe (AU universe of origin): Fist of Vengeance

Traits of Voice

Accent (if any): Has no accent in any language, meaning he speaks languages perfectly.

Language spoken: English, the dead language of magic that only ancient magic beings speak.

Other languages known: Knows all languages, thanks to his magic blessing.

Volume of voice: tends to speak in the growly low batman voice, it’s become his normal voice at this point. His voice tends to have an almost ghost like sound to you, like with how ghost voices sound kinda breathy and nonhuman.

Physical Appearance

Height: 6´2

Eye colour: Purple, think a deeper purple. (thanks to Khal’s magic)

Skin colour: Pale.

Distinguishing features: The large number of scars on his body and the way he carries himself in general. His purple eyes. The magic tattoos on his body. His longer fangs, think like a vampire, and his sharp split tongue.

Build of body: broad and muscular.

Hair colour: Black.

Hair style: Short and ruffled, like he’s just taken his cowl off, which is the case most of the time.

Tattoos: Has magic tattoos all over his body, think magic circles, sigils, and symbols. Has a snake tattoo curled over his heart, think ouroboros (Khal’s symbol).

Piercings: Has a couple but doesn’t wear them.

Typical clothing: Wears his batman suit, which is an updated version of his usual one. It’s got a lot of magic worked into it, and it looks more like knights armour with a longer cape than the normal suit batman wears.

Is seen by others as: a myth, a scary figure that you don’t want to meet. Most don’t believe he exists, as only those who are ancient in age or unbelievably powerful in magic know Khal, and by extension his fist, exists.

Health

Sleeping habits:  doesn’t sleep.

Energy level: has all the energy in the world, never gets tired physically, but is exhausted mentally.

Eating habits: doesn’t need to eat but will at times for nostalgia.

Memory: has perfect memory, remembers everything and anything down to the smallest detail.

Any unhealthy habits: probably the way he guilts himself and lets it control his life and his duty.

Relationships

Parents:  Thomas Wayne (Biological), Martha Wayne (Biological), Alfred Pennyworth (never adopted on paper, but Bruce saw him as his father)

Siblings: none

Any enemies (and why): way too many at this point.

Children: Dick Grayson (adopted), Jason Todd (adopted), Damian Wayne (Biological, With Talia), Cassandra Caine (Adopted), Duke Thomas (Adopted), Stephanie Brown (Adopted), Jean-Paul Valley (Adopted in spirit but not on paper), Carrie Kelley (Adopted), Jarro (Adopted), Helena Wayne (Biological, with Selina), Ryan Wayne (Biological, With Selina),  Terry Mcginnis (Adopted, depends on universe), Matt Mcginnis (Adopted, depends on universe), Bruce Wayne Jr (Biological, unknown mother), Athanasia Al Ghul (Biological, with Talia), Tallant Wayne (Biological, with Talia), Kull (Biological, with Diana), Harper Row (Adopted, depends on universe), Cullen Row (Adopted, depends on universe), Lance Bruner (Adopted),

Friends: has none at this point, but used to have the league and others.

Best friend(s): has none at this point, but it used to be Clark and Diana.

Important friends/relatives (explain): finds all his friends and family important.

Love interest (if there is one): None, but used to have a thing with Clark, but they didn’t get to make it official before Clark was killed.

Combat

Peaceful or violent: Attempts to stay peaceful if it’s possible, but isn’t against using violence and even deadly violence if needed.

Weapon (if applicable): mostly uses batgadgets you’d see any batman use, but has claws and uses swords and guns if needed too.

Style of fighting: can use pretty much any fighting style, just uses the one needed for the situation he’s in.

Others

Occupation: Knight of Khal (an oc of mine, whos the creator of all magic and existence). Gave himself to Khal to be his fist of vengeance after Khal restored Bruces destroyed home dimension. Became something far beyond human after this.

Current home: None, jumps across dimensions at will.

Favourite types of food: Mulligatawny Soup, white chocolate cookies with cranberries, Enchiladas Mole, I think he just enjoys anything Alfred makes, and Bruce enjoys food from a lot of different cultures.

Favourite types of drink: Strong coffees and non-fruity teas.

Hobbies/past times: Writing, Reading, knitting (does this when he has to pass time between dimensions), working out, training.

Guilty pleasures: Nachos, think the loaded unhealthy ones you get at the movies or on the street.

Pet peeves: Finds over arrogant people annoying, or people who think they are above everyone else. Those who treat those weaker than themselves badly.

Pets: Used to have many pets before becoming the fist of vengeance.

Favourite colours: Black, Blue, Red, Green, Yellow, Purple (think batfam colours.)

[ao3feed-harleyquinn]

take two: it takes two (to make a thing go right)

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/VRvEYct by narration_ator after wind, after rain // when the dark is done // as I wake from a dream // in the gold of day // through the air there's a calling // from far away // there's a voice I can hear // that will lead me home -“the road home" You’ve held many roles over the years. Daughter. Sister. Sidekick. Vigilante. Superhero. CEO. Socialite. Gotham’s Princess. Leader. Wife. Aunt. Mother. A Wayne. A Kent. A remainder. You’ve been Batgirl and you’ve been Batman. You’ve lost each of your siblings. You survived the apocalypse and rebuilt the world in the wake of the loss. You’ve raised children—both your dead siblings’ kids and your own. You’ve trained an uncountable number of young heroes. When the end comes, it’s fitting. Your life’s work interrupted, your children’s lives falling under the same curse of losing parents that everyone else in your family has suffered. Your only regret, as you die in your husband’s arms, is that their father is now gone, as well. Then you wake up. Words: 953, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Series: Part 1 of it takes two (to make a thing go right) Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types, DCU, DCU (Comics), Young Justice - All Media Types, Superman - All Media Types, Teen Titans - All Media Types Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Characters: Reader, Kon-El | Conner Kent, Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Cassandra Cain, Tim Drake (DCU), Stephanie Brown, Damian Wayne, Duke Thomas, Luke Fox, Lucius Fox, Alfred Pennyworth, Helena Bertinelli, Harleen Quinzel, Pamela Isley, Selina Kyle, Helena Wayne, John Grayson, Elainna Grayson, Carrie Kelley, Lucy Quinzel, Lian Harper, Clark Kent, Jonathan Samuel Kent, Lois Lane, Jonathan "Pa" Kent, Martha Kent, Diana (Wonder Woman), Donna Troy, Harper Row, Kyle Rayner, Hal Jordan (Green Lantern), Oliver Queen, Connor Hawke, Mia Dearden, Barry Allen, Wally West, Bart Allen, J'onn J'onzz | Hank Henshaw, M'gann M'orzz, Zatanna Zatara, Arthur Curry (DCU), Kaldur'ahm | Jackson Hyde, Other Character Tags to Be Added Relationships: Kon-El | Conner Kent/Reader Additional Tags: Time Travel, Time Travel Fix-It, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Alternate Universe - Time Travel, Alternate Universe, Established Relationship, Marriage, Secret Marriage, Secret Relationship, Old Married Couple, Secret Identity, Superheroes, Vigilantism, Reader-Insert, Reader is a Wayne (DCU), Bruce Wayne Tries to Be a Good Parent, Kon-El | Conner Kent is Superboy, Clark Kent is Kon-El | Conner Kent's Parent, Lex Luthor is Kon-El | Conner Kent's Parent, Mentioned Jonathan "Pa" Kent and Martha Kent, Other Ships Not Mentioned in Tags, Other Additional Tags to Be Added read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/VRvEYct

[zahri-melitor]

Okay, contenders for why I listed this out to seven or more daughters, because everyone’s very fixed on two answers (and I’m pretty sure who they’re counting):

None – this is DC’s favourite answer for many periods actually. Amused how few votes this is getting.

Cassandra Cain – Cass was legally adopted at the end of Batgirl 2008, then written out of continuity after Flashpoint, and since her return I think has not officially been confirmed as adopted on page?

Helena Wayne (current) – Bruce’s future daughter with Selina who might now count as from another timeline. Currently starring in the JSA.

Helena Wayne (pre-Crisis) – arguably a different future daughter Helena of Bruce and Selina from a completely separate timeline given their backstories involve different parents dying and very few overlapping details other than their names.

Helena Kyle (postboot) – welcome to my favourite old conspiracy. Officially Helena Kyle is the daughter of Selina Kyle and Sam Bradley, as confirmed by a DNA test run by Bruce himself. In practice – DC spent a lot of time trying to fake everyone out going back and forth over who was Helena’s dad (look. Look at her name) and there’s an old conspiracy that Bruce made sure the test said he wasn’t the father, to make life easier for everyone involved. Also Bruce got a little bit of dad time in with baby and toddler Helena. Look, it’s a 2006-2007 thing.

Helena Bertinelli – definitely not biologically related to Bruce, definitely not adopted by Bruce, definitely never treated like a daughter by Bruce, but technically sort of a reincarnation of Helena Wayne (pre-Crisis) if you count that sort of thing. Also was running around Gotham being Not Your Kid at the same time Jean-Paul Valley was doing the same thing while also referring to himself as the prodigal son, making the lines very blurry.

Athanasia Al Ghul - Oh heck I was just reminded this Talia and Bruce kid exists in various alternate continuities. I don’t think Athanasia exists as a future daughter anywhere.

Barbara Gordon – acting as a parental figure/we’re counting unofficial daughters-in-law, round one. Barbara would heavily dispute this. (The Bruce who kissed Barbara’s forehead when she was dying of Brainiac poisoning would probably say she’s an unofficial emotional daughter. The rest of the time he’d refuse to engage with the question)

Stephanie Brown – acting as a parental figure/we’re counting unofficial daughters-in-law, round two. Steph would like to point out that she has two (usually) living parents, even if Crystal Brown has never been consistently drawn from issue to issue and Arthur’s occasionally dead or pretending to be dead, and she’s never lived at the Manor thank you very much. You can be a Robin without being Bruce’s kid.

Koriand’r – well you did just suggest unofficial/potential future daughters-in-law count, round three.

Carrie Kelley – she’s a Robin, she’s a girl, she was under Bruce’s mentorship as a vigilante while Robining… but she also had her own two parents and never lived with Bruce.

Harper Row – she’s a vigilante he watches over, Bruce does spend a fair bit of time worrying about her living arrangements.

Claire Clover – she’s a vigilante Bruce was mentoring, he was emotionally close to her for a period.

Mary Kowalski/Miracle Molly – Gotham vigilante clause, wasn’t she living in part of the Manor/Cave at one point?

A confusing number all named Helena, no others – we’re preferencing biological daughters of Bruce only and nobody can get an accurate count on how many of them there are!

Am I missing any other options people would like to add on?

Okay here’s a poll everyone will have very strong opinions on:

I love to see working, tell me who you are and are not counting and why

[jasontoddsguns]

A random person: I love Batman and robin

Me: Oh, Which robin is your favorite?

A random person: There’s more than one?

Me: Can I tell you about them?

A random person: Sure!

Me: (deep breath) So dick grayson is the first robin. He’s the one most people think of when someone mentions robin. His parents were acrobats who fell to their deaths. Bruce wayne happened to see this and was like,”huh,I guess I’m a dad now.”Dick is known for being the most social of the bat family. He even formed the teen titans. He later goes off on his own as Nightwing. Jason Todd was the second robin. His dad was an abusive asshole and his mom was a drug addict. His mom overdoses and Jason takes to the streets. He tries to steal the wheels off the batmobile and batman catches him and is like, “huh,I have two sons now.” Jason was violent during his time is Robin and readers generally disliked him. DC did a poll to see if Jason should die or not. Readers decided to kill him. Long story short Jason is brutally murdered by the Joker. He gets resurrected later and becomes the Red Hood, a gun toting antihero. So while Jason is dead Batman has become absolutely brutal on criminals because you know, his son is dead. Rich kid named Tim Drake, who already knew Batman’s identity because he’s a smart cookie, notices this. Tim goes to Dick and he’s like, ”bruh your dad is losing it, be Robin again.” Dick is like, “no you.” After a lot of nagging and blackmail Bruce finally accepts Tim as Robin. Bruce is also like, “huh, I guess I have three two sons now.” Tim later becomes Red Robin because Dick was being an asshole. The fourth robin? (idk timelines are tricky) is Stephanie Brown, a.k.a the first female robin. Her dad was a villain named the Cluemaster and Stephanie was like, “hell no” She breaks into the bat cave and demands to become robin. She later gets fired and goes after blackmask to prove herself. She “dies” but really she fakes her death. She later comes back as batgirl. She also went/goes by spoiler. Damian Wayne is the 5th robin. He is the son of Talia al Ghul and Batman. He really wanted the robin mantle and repeatedly tried to kill Tim Drake for it. In general he’s a little asshole, but he has a soft spot for animals and superboy. He later becomes robin to Dick Grayson’s Batman. Last but not least Carrie Kelly. She’s not cannon anymore but she deserves a mention. She also uses a slingshot and is just straight up a vibe.

[philtatosbuck]

every day i discover a new bruce wayne child over the multiverse.

Bio Kids: Tallant (I consider him to be separate from Damian), Kull (A child between Diana and Bruce), Damian, Athanasia (Brutalia Injustice daughter), Terry McGinnis, Matt McGinnis, Helena Wayne, Kiki Wayne, Alina Shelley Wayne (Possibly?) and Aion Wayne

Adopted Kids: Dick, Jason, Cassandra, Tim, Duke.

Not adopted kids, but he's a parental figure/people consider him to be?: Barbara, Stephanie, Carrie Kelley, Harper Row, Cullen Row?

That's twenty fucking kids bro

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

The House of Never Letting Go

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/j1toCmQ by HermesDay "Rule number one," Tim said importantly. "Never ask to Bruce about his parents. Rule number two: don't tell Jason he was a bad Robin." "Wait, which one's Jason -" "And rule number three," Tim concluded: "If you want to be Robin, never let Batman find out you're not a ghost." - In which Carrie Kelley is determined to become Robin or die trying. Words: 1000, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types Rating: General Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Categories: Gen Characters: Carrie Kelley, Tim Drake (DCU), Jason Todd, Dick Grayson, Damian Wayne, Bruce Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth Relationships: Tim Drake & Carrie Kelley Additional Tags: Family, Fluff and Humor, Light Angst, Carrie Kelley is Robin, Ghost Tim Drake, Dick Grayson Tries, Jason Todd is So Done, Good Sibling Damian Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth Knows, Good Parent Bruce Wayne, Ghosts, Death, Haunted Wayne Manor, Batfamily Shenanigans (DCU), Everyone is all sorts of ages in this, because they're ghosts and the rules don't apply to them read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/j1toCmQ

[noybusiness]

This is a great analysis, thank you for posting!

Some Gotham Knights-related thoughts I've had since the end of the series:

I do wonder if Turner might have changed his name to Turner Wayne eventually, since he now knows his biological parents were bad guys (whom he described as "monsters") and reaffirmed his commitment to Bruce's legacy in the finale, and with all those fake IDs, Hayes may not have been their real name, anyway.

Also, as they were prolific international assassins, I would expect that they had a bit more money than they seemed to, stashed away in a nest egg somewhere.

Being thought dead while being trained by the League of Assassins increases his parallels with Jason Todd, at least in the later adaptations where Jason was resurrected by the Lazarus Pits while Bruce thought he was dead. And of course, Damian Wayne was raised by the League. Doubtless a dramatic reveal/unmasking would have been coming in the future when the other Knights finally both saw him again and learned the person before them was Turner.

I actually would have liked to see him embrace the bad boy thing Duela pointed out he was flirting with in the episode "Daddy Issues" and run away with her in that episode (with or without Jane Doe) instead of how things turned out. Also, have you noticed that Oscar/Turner has blue-brown heterochromatic eyes? It's striking, but I rarely see people comment on it.

Rebecca March said that she started over with "a new name and a new family" several times, so Brody may not be the only child she's had over the past century+. He could learned about or even met them. And what would the long-term effects of the Electrum in his system have been? Would it have run out after he took enough injuries?

It wasn't totally clear to me if Cullen's confession to Turner about how much he matters to him was platonic/fraternal or not.

The show made sly references to Stephanie and Harper's comic book codenames Spoiler and Bluebird a couple of times, so I wonder if they would ever have actually used them, as Carrie goes by Robin already. Of course, Cullen doesn't have a codename in the comics :( :( :( , Duela's is primarily "the Joker's Daughter", which she now knows she's not, and Turner and Brody are original characters. I suppose Turner *could* resurface as Red Hood. At more of a stretch, Turner and Brody could be Batman and Owlman, but I have a harder time seeing that; slightly easier if it's years in the future when they're older. Carrie could also become Batwoman when she's older.

I hope we would have seen more of Carrie's mother Doctor Lisa Kelley, since she's the only living parent the Gotham Knights have access to who doesn't suck (something the others can all be envious of), apart from arguably Harvey/Two-Face (and what kind of frenemy/evil mentor/anti-mentor dynamic might he have developed with the kids? We were robbed!). Would Brody have wanted to work at the hospital more, and would he and Carrie have gotten closer? They seemed to have chemistry.

For that matter, I assume he and Stephanie have had all the necessary conversations offscreen before the last scene of the finale about her not really being into him and dating Harper now and that he's more-or-less cool with it, though I suppose there could have been a bit of awkwardness for an episode or two at least, I don't know.

CW’s Gotham Knights sorting 

Attention: SPOILERS AHEAD!

Turner Hayes

The first thing that hit me about Turner before he was framed for Bruce’s murder is that he was genuinely happy with his life. I expected a lot of Main Character AngstTM from him, the way most protagonists are written especially on the CW, but there was none (or very little) of it. And it’s not like Turner doesn’t have sources of angst: his parents are dead and he went overnight from the son of cleaners to the adopted son of a billionaire -and all that implies- without any explanation. You can see it clearly in Gotham Academy (and in the city at large) that he isn’t very liked. Actually it looks like most people resent him for ‘getting uppity’ and rising above his station. Just look at how Brody treats him in the beginning or how the people of Gotham are ready to believe the worst of him overnight. But Turner doesn’t care. He has his best friend, Stephanie, he has Cressida and he has Bruce. He loves them and they love him; more than enough for a Snake primary. Sure, Bruce may be a bit too busy and it’s annoying, but Turner can always distract himself with a party. Classic hedonistic young Snake.

Turner’s arc is all about betrayal and how one deals with it. Turner is slowly, over the course of the series, betrayed by almost his entire inner circle: Bruce, Cressida and even his dead parents. Interestingly enough he is the person who doesn’t betray anyone even when they turned their back to him. At the end of episode two, Turner is the one who went to save Duela from the Talon despite the fact that she abandoned him to certain death. I don’t think Duela was entirely in his inner circle at this point (although I think she, Cullen and Harper were slowly getting there from the very first pilot when they handed him the lockpicking tool for his handcuffs, thus including him in their escape), but I think it was important to Turner that he will not be the kind of person to leave behind someone who might rely on his loyalty. Another moment that comes to mind is finding out that everyone at the Gotham Gala is gonna be gassed to death. His first reaction? “Stephanie is there!“

Like all healthy Snakes, Turner adopts Bruce’s morality as his own. And he’s so successful that I almost wondered if he was an Idealist for a while. But what sold him as a Snake for me was him saving Cressida versus not saving Joe Chill. Cressida had helped the Court to kill his father and frame Turner for the murder but Turner saves her because ‘this is what my dad would do’. So he blows up his cover to save the woman who helped raise him and betrayed him in the worst way possible, despite the odds being overwhelmingly against them. But when he finds out Joe Chill had been framed by Thomas and Martha Wayne’s murders and will face the death penalty….he does nothing. Despite the fact that Joe was arguably more of an innocent than Cressida, Turner doesn’t even have a throwaway line later on about wishing he could have helped him. (This plus the way he has zero remorse over killing the Talon also made me rule out Badger as a primary.) That’s because Turner is Bruce’s son in all the ways that matter, but he is not his heir in this show. He’s too much of a Snake to ever be. 

His secondary is somehow even more obvious than his primary: this is the guy who had argued that they need to stick together from day one, who said that what makes them different from Joe Chill is the fact that they have each other, who was literally introduced to us extending a hand towards Brody when the latter lost the sword fight. He is such a Courtier Badger that for the first half of the show it almost overshadowed his primary. Not to mention, he is an amazing manipulator. Look at the beginning of episode two; after failing to convince Duela to trust Stephanie by vouching for her, he pivots: “[Put the knife down] or you might kill the one person who could prove we were set up.” He realizes Duela needs a self-serving reason to stop threatening Stephanie and he gives it to her. The same hyper awareness of emotional situations shows up again in episode thirteen when he wants to convince the group to have faith in Duela. The rest of the Knights are somewhat derisive that someone with Duela’s past and parentage could ever become a self-sacrificing hero…at which point Turner reveals his own parents’ secret: they were assassins sent to kill the Batman, and if they don’t trust Duela because of who raised her, they shouldn’t trust him either. And it works like a charm as the group gives into Turner’s wishes. 

Duela Doe Dent

Duela is such a complex character, I wasn’t sure of her sorting till the very last minute. I think what’s important to look at in order to figure her out is her mom. Duela idolizes Jane Doe and wants nothing more than to be like her. And Jane is the ultimate hedonistic Double Snake. So of course Duela has a Snake secondary that is always ready for a con. But at the end of the day this is just the model she wears because of her mother. One of the themes of the show is trying to live up to your parents’ expectations and what that does to you. And modeling Jane’s Snake sec I think made Duela to feel a bit invisible. In episode eight when she talks about how her mom had so many identities even she herself forgot who she really was, it’s the first time when she doesn’t talk about her with admiration, but with fear. Duela is similarly terrified of losing herself while trying to live up to the legacy of being the Joker’s daughter. Deep down under that playful Snake, there is a Lion Secondary that is as blunt as they come. Her plan B when rescuing Turner in episode nine? A bomber vest to kill everyone if needed. Her reaction to evil!Harvey? To taunt him by throwing the truth in his face. Turner is dying from radiation? Duela tells him as soon as she finds out, against everyone else’s wishes. As Turner says she ‘has no grasp on social clues’, ‘she always tells the hard truths’ and ‘she’s always…Duela’. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence it’s this last line that makes her kiss him. This is the Lion secondary being overjoyed at someone liking Duela for who she is, not who she tries to be. Her fighting style (punches and knives to throats), her way of gathering information being kidnapping and torture and her tendency of giving Turner a reality check whenever he needs it are also evidence that support a Lion secondary. Her idea of a distraction is also hilariously straight-forward: she escapes from the police by pointing out how she’s trying to pick her handcuffs. (Sidenote: Turner and Duela’s ‘not offended’ game, aside from giving us THE most romantic line in the show, it’s also very Lion-coded IMO. There is very little you can say to a Lion secondary that will offend them as long as you are honest and it’s clear your intentions aren’t malicious.)

When trying to figure out Duela’s secondary I realized that she is incredibly healthy for a girl raised in Arkham by a conwoman. Sure, she’s extremely self-serving and would climb over anyone to get what she wants, but she has no regrets about it. It’s a tough world and everyone is in it for themselves. Except Duela is in it for her and her mom. (And she thinks the same must be true for her mom.) She’s a Snake primary who can’t be with Her Person. So she’s a little burnt. She doesn’t let herself get too close to anyone because what’s the point? Everyone leaves you eventually. Jane is the only person that had been there for Duela so she is the only one allowed to be in her inner circle. But than episode two happens and Duela abandons Harper, Cullen, Carrie and Turner to save her own skin. So when the invincible assassin comes after her, Duela is all alone. Except no, because suddenly the others are there and they are saving her life. She tries to clumsily thank Cullen for it, but he points out that if it wasn’t for Turner, they would have left her for dead. This is the switch that puts him on her map and slowly but surely, her Snake latches onto him. “I don’t care about Gotham, I care about Turner.” Duela and Turner’s first conflict in episode 11 is a deeply Loyalist one: she wants him to run away with her and her mom because she only cares about these two people, but Turner’s inner circle has expanded to include the others, so he can’t just leave. And the girl who’s already kinda burnt takes it as a betrayal and leaves without him. But she does come back when she realizes her mom is safe, but Turner is in mortal peril; or tries to. I find it interesting that her reaction to seeing the others imprisoned is to say ‘Even little bird’. And that’s because Carrie is the other person she bonded with. 

Duela heals completely in the last episode when two things happen: Harvey promises to be her dad and commits a great sacrifice for her…and Turner comes to save her despite still being under the impression that she was never gonna come back. Her delighted expression when seeing him says it all. I always thought the Twelfth Doctor’s speech ‘Do You Think I Care for You So Little that Betraying Me Would Make a Difference?’ is every Snake’s dream, especially a burnt Snake’s, and Turner gave her this exact speech with his actions. Duela’s last scene mirrors Turner’s attitude during the whole show.

Harper: Duela, do you even care about the people?

Duela: No. But Turner did. And I cared about him.

She has adopted her loved ones’ morality and is willing to act on it. She’s a healthy Snake now despite all the tragedies that have happened to her.

(I am unsure about this, but I do wonder if Duela might have had a Bird primary model filled with nihilistic beliefs that she gets rid off by the end of the series. It would explain some of her more Idealist-like scenes, like when she is upset Joe Chill -the patron saint of small thieves- was actually set up. Or when she has to be comforted by Turner after saving the lives of kidnapping victims: “Just because you did a good thing doesn’t make you a good person.” The fact that this phrase makes her smile happily was hilarious.)

Harper Row

Harper is another Lion secondary that can’t be anything else but what she is. She’s blunt and forceful and makes her opinion known. She may be a genius but she is no Bird as she has none of the Bird sec traits. Sure she does research when needed, but she doesn’t show any particular inclination towards it outside life and death situations. As proven in the last episode, when she’s in a fight she goes for the biggest weapon. The way she stands up to Stephanie’s mom by throwing the truth in her face is also a very Lion move.

Harper is another Loyalist and for a while I believed she was a Snake with only Cullen as her person. After all, everything she does was and is for him. But she’s actually pretty miserable. Which is why I think she’s actually a Burnt Badger. @wisteria-lodge has this to say about Burnt Badgers: “[the Burnt Badger ]has decided that communities are unsafe, unpractical, and the only way to be safe is to be alone - or to try and be content with a much smaller community than the one they want. For this reason, Burnt badgers tend to look like miserable Snakes.” We sadly don’t get a lot of interiority for Harper (another reason to hate the cancellation), but I think her behavior towards Stephanie and especially Stephanie-Turner when contrasted to Duela’s is telling. Harper and Duela both have a crush on a person that has a very deep relationship with someone else, to the point that one can mistake the relationship as romantic. Which Harper does and starts resenting Stephanie and pushing her away in order to protect herself. She’s too scared to let herself get attached, typical Burnt Badger behavior. Meanwhile Snake Duela is just happy there is someone else prioritizing Turner like she does.

After their names are cleared, Harper says she might enroll in Gotham Academy with Stephanie, which to me shows that she’s looking to build a community.

Cullen Row

Cullen is the only one, alongside Stephanie, that is willing to deviate from their quest of proving their innocence in order to catch an art thief. While Harper refuses to risk her life in order to ‘recover trinkets for the rich’ and Turner says it’s not a priority, Lion primary Cullen has embraced his role as a hero of the city and thinks it would be unethical to not try and catch the thief and recover the stolen art. He’s also the one that wants to clear his name in the pilot because ‘I am the one who chose the damned thing’. If Turner wants to prove his innocence because he doesn’t want to be remembered as his own father’s killer and Duela and Harper don’t want to risk their lives in order to clear their names, Idealist Cullen is the only one who wants to do it because it’s the Right Thing to do. 

I oscillated between Snake and Bird for his secondary, but I went with the former because deception is his go-to method. Need to trade the electrum for Turner but don’t want to give it to the Court? Just create a fake one. (And that scene is such a contrast with Lion sec Duela whose solution is to try and cut the powerful space rock with a run-of-the-mill knife LOL) Need evidence from the police station? Pretend to be a cop. In the pilot, when they knock out the cops chasing them, Cullen is the one that uses their station to keep the other cops from finding them.

Stephanie Brown

Stephanie is a Lion primary who is pretty much being gaslighted by her parents. She knows your mom being so drunk and drugged she can’t even stand at your school function is wrong, just as wrong as your dad using his money and status to supply her addiction just to keep up the picture of the perfect family. Stephanie does everything her parents tell her to, including ‘dating a guy with the right last name’. Except that’s not entirely true. Stephanie rebels in her own quiet way from the pilot when she helps Turner and keeps helping him and his friends after they become fugitives. You can see her Lion primary both loves the rebellion and the fact that she gets to be a hero, to truly do something good. As I pointed out before, aside from Cullen, Stephanie is the only one who believes it’s their duty as heroes to recover stolen art. 

When she lets her father go to prison instead of giving Lincoln her friends’ location, Arthur Brown frames it as a Loyalist conflict: me versus them. But Idealist Stephanie doesn’t see it that way. What she sees is that her father is going to pay for his crimes, while her friends are innocent.

Her secondary was a bit harder, because I think it had been a bit burned by playing the perfect daughter, but I settled on Lion secondary. She and Harper communicate with each other in an easy and blunt way, like Lions do. She also has the Lion tendency of picking a strategy and just sticking with it, no matter how ill advised it might be. In her case it is using her hacker skills despite almost being arrested in the second episode. She’s also incredibly honest (when Brody asks about what she thinks about his dad, Stephanie just repeats that she thinks his mom is nice), uncomfortable with deception and goes after what she wants once her Lion primary has picked a path (see how she kissed Harper both in episode 11 and 13).

Carrie Kelly

Carrie is Bruce Wayne’s student when it comes to vigilantism and his true heir in the show. She is another Lion primary, and a Paragon one at that, just like her mom and her mentor. Like Turner’s and Duela’s, her story is about rising to your parents’ expectations, but in Carrie’s case, she surpasses them! Dr. Kelly is Gotham’s best surgeon who has double shifts at the hospital because this is the right thing to do and her drive has rubbed onto her daughter. So of course Carrie picks up on her mom’s, and later, Bruce’s, desire to save people and protect the city. As such when the opportunity arises she becomes Robin, Batman’s partner. Dr. Kelly is shocked her daughter would become a vigilante, but as Carrie points out she had been raised to do the right thing. This is also why she saves Turner and co in the pilot: she knows they are innocent and as such needs to rescue them. She’s still a young Lion who has quite the idealistic view and we see in the episode ‘More money, more problem’ -where she manages to put a mob boss behind bars only for him to be released by corrupt officials- that Gotham’s harsh reality could easily burn her. Thankfully I think the creation of the Gotham Knights would help prevent this.

As for her secondary, first things first: this girl is not a Lion. She steals the journal pages in episode two and keeps the secret about Batman killing Turner’s parents for the next eight episodes without much effort. She doesn’t have any Bird or Snake traits, which leaves Badger secondary, something that fits her quite well. I would say she is a Bookkeeper Badger, the other side of the coin to Turner’s Courtier Badger. Wisteria says about them: “A Bookkeeper Badger shows up and does the work. They are dependable, they are thorough, they don’t like cutting corners (Badgers consider cutting corners on something that they actually care about immoral.)” This perfectly describes Carrie.

Brody March

Brody doesn’t get that much interiority, so it’s hard to settle on a primary to him. I am oscillating between a heroic Badger or Lion as he turns on his parents when he realizes they are doing terrible things. I am gonna go with Badger primary, mostly for how much it seems like a community is important to him. When he joins the Knights in episode 12 he immediately considers himself one of them: “We would be fine.” There is also the way he seems to have quite the social life at Gotham Academy. This is mostly implied, but from the very first episode, while Turner is positioned as the outsider who will never get over the stigma of being ‘from the slums of Gotham’ and as such never truly belong in the upper class, Brody is the ‘guy with the perfect family name’ as Stephanie puts it. Everything he does is to live up to this family name, but unlike Stephanie, he genuinely wants to do so, it isn’t just pressure from his parents. You can see the first peak of the more heroic Badger when he does volunteer work at the hospital with Carrie and is bothered by the people left to suffer and wants to help them.

Brody and Turner’s pre-show relationship is fascinating and I’m sad it never gets fully explored. It’s clear they were somewhat close to each other, probably mostly because of Stephanie, but they are also clearly rivals in a lot of aspects: when it comes to swordfighting, to Stephanie’s affection and just to social status in general. Being the Bruce Wayne’s son, Turner is somewhat socially above Brody and pretty much all of the other students and you can see it irks them as they certainly feel he doesn’t deserve it. Brody believes Turner is capable of murdering his own father for money for…nine episodes, I think! And unlike most of Gotham, Brody clearly had enough of a rapport with him to have some doubts, but he doesn’t. I think these are the dark tendencies of a Badger to give into prejudice.

As Turner’s foil, Brody is another Badger secondary, but like Carrie -with whom he forms an organic friendship- I think he’s more of a Bookkeeper. While Turner may have been introduced to us in the pilot offering his hand to Brody, Brody is introduced when he accepts said hand, showing his fair play. His reaction when he is in uncomfortable situations (the gala, when he discovers the hidden camera with the recorded evidence) is to ask a friend (aka Stephanie) for help.

TL;DR

Turner Hayes - Snake who picked up Bruce’s morality/Courtier Badger

Duela Doe Dent - somewhat burnt Snake (with maybe a nihilistic Bird model)/Lion with a healthy Snake model

Harper Row - burned Badger/Lion

Cullen - Lion/Snake

Stephanie Brown - Lion/burned Lion

Carrie Kelly - Paragon Lion/Bookkeeper Badger

Brody March - Badger/Bookkeeper Badger