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2stepadmiral · 6 months ago

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Hardly a hot take, but I didn’t like acolyte. It’s the first Star Wars show that was legitimately bad (book of boba fett, Mando season 3, and Obi Wan I would consider guilty pleasures at worst). Overall, it had a lot of bad writing, cringy acting, and poor storytelling. Yes, there were some good parts, like Qimir’s character, the fight choreography, onscreen debut of cortosis, and Sol (until about episode 7), but for me, they weren’t good enough to make up for the lacking areas.

A few highlight critiques I have:

I hated the overall theme of anti-Jediism. Not because I don’t believe that the Jedi should be criticized, I just think that the way it was handled was nonsensical and idiotic. The flaws of the Jedi by the clone war were primarily complacency to a degree that they are basically puppets of the Senate, and stale teachings that haven’t changed in however many centuries or millennia that lead to Darth Vader. These flaws are issues that the Jedi should’ve recognized and tried to address, but they don’t warrant a total demonization of the institution as a whole. That’s the tragedy of the fall of the Jedi, the fact that they could’ve prevented their fall if they had simply been self critical and introspective. In acolyte, you have what effectively feels like real world political issues and criticisms forced into this universe and forcibly applied to the lens of the Jedi flaws. It isn’t explained why the Jedi being an institution is in and of itself a characteristic of the order, let alone a flaw, except from the perspective of the stranger, who sees himself as a victim of the Jedi because they won’t let him be a galaxy conquering Sith psychopath, which is a pretty weak argument.

Too many of the main characters are obnoxious and completely unlikeable. Neither mae nor osha feel like actual characters with actual arcs or development, just caricatures who make poor decisions and throw temper tantrums at anything they don’t like. Yord is an inflexible rule stickler who never develops any character besides rigidly following the rules and expressing bland disapproval at anyone who doesn’t follow his lead. Indara and Venestra were like Yord on steroids; they both reminded me unpleasantly of Luminara in TCW, but somehow with less personality. Sol, Jecki, and Qimir were the only characters that were interesting and somewhat likable.

The lightsaber designs are bland and boring. Before now, lightsaber hilts were always unique and had a profound or at least noticeable elegance to the design (Rey’s yellow lightsaber and Ezra’s blaster hybrid lightsaber are exceptions, those two were bland or ugly designs IMO). Pretty much every lightsaber in acolyte looks like interchangeable foot long pieces of discolored pipe with different cuts at the emitters, but apart from that, they looked pretty interchangeable.

The witches are cringe and poorly written. If these witches are supposed to be dark and creepy and potentially evil, why are they not just night sisters? If they’re supposed to be benevolent witches, Why did they act so night sister like? They play too small role in the story to be an entirely new kind of witch, and trying to blend nightsisters and other tribes of Dathomir witches was just confusing. We don’t understand their motives, and if we’re supposed to sympathize with them, it’s made very difficult by the fact that they’re pretty openly cultish and their intentions, for the twins seem pretty sinister. Overall, their inclusion just felt like a very weak and forced attempt to quickly add layers of demonization to the Jedi, and most of their time on screen countered that intention by making them cringy (that ceremony was beyond weird) and frankly unsympathetic due to their openly controlling and not so subtle Sinister undertones.

The ‘twist’ made no sense. Torbin was so homesick after a mere two months in the field doing drudge work that he thought bringing these girls would get him home? And he felt guilty to the point where he willingly and knowingly drank poison as atonement because… Sol understandably struck at one of the witches when she started turning into a shadow demon? And seemed to be attacking one of the girls they were there to save? And the witches, in retaliation/defense, tried to kill him? And then possessed a Wookie Jedi to try and make him kill them? And then they all died when they were expelled from Kelnacca’s mind? What?

I hated the bleeding scene. I love the concept of bleeding kyber crystals, and previous executions, like in Jedi survivor, and in the Vader comics, were freaking awesome. But in both of those instances, you had fallen Jedi having the focus all of their rage and pain into a crystal that was actively fighting back, and as a result, success usually meant in explosion of Force energy. This may the concept fuel more like a tragedy when a crystal was bled, and it made it seem like even building a Sith light saber was in of itself a trial. Osha casually and unintentionally bleeding Sol’s crystal while strangling him makes bleeding seem ludicrously easy or makes it seem like she is casually more powerful than Vader, even while he was using a Darkside Nexus, and then the light saber blade changing color while active after she bleeds it trivializes the whole process.

The fact is that the vergence thing does raise questions about Anakin’s unique nature in the Force. They could have said that Brendok might have some kind of Nexus in the Force, and that the witches were able to use this potentially unnatural focus of Force energy to affect the artificial conception and birth of an unusually powerful being, and could’ve left a clear implication that while the twins together might have been almost as powerful as Anakin, even together they would have been less powerful. Using the term ‘vergence’ immediately implies that they are on the same level as Anakin in strength, as well as in unique nature. It’s sort of like Kyp Durron in the early EU, randomly introducing a Force user who is such a prodigy that he easily outstrips even master Luke. It strips beloved characters of their importance.

It also raises questions about how unique Plagueis’ work is. I haven’t read the book yet, but from my knowledge of Darth Plagueis, his obsession with immortality is what led him to learn how to influence the Force to create life. His whole pursuit flew directly in the face of the Rule of Two, Which is part of what made him interesting. Now, the implication is that he stole the idea from the witches, which robs him of some of his appeal and makes his work seem like a cheap knock off instead of a bold and desperate gambit that fleshes out his character and further contributes to Palpatine. Yes, they may remedy this in future seasons if it is renewed, but for right now, it’s raising questions.

Basil. That rodent annoyed the hell out of me every time he was on screen after episode 4.

Overall, the show had potential, but I feel like poor choices in writing dragged it down and ruined the execution. At the end of the day, I literally just want to watch an enjoyable Star Wars show that I can get into, and acolyte kept dragging me out of it with these and other issues.

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dorkydegeneracy · 5 months ago

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1. Andor

2. Obi-Wan Kenobi

3. The Mandolorian

4. Ahsoka

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5. The Acolyte

5. The Book of Boba Fett

Andor is by far the greatest live action Star Wars project to date, which is a shame because I think it is the least watched of all projects. As someone who loves the political intrigue side of Star Wars, this show speaks to me on a personal level. I understand that most Star Wars fans may not value this aspect of the series. Indeed, I have heard from many fans that this is their least favorite aspect of Star Wars. Nevertheless, I truly believe that Andor is the only show that I can confidently say makes for good television (not perfect of course, far from it). Diego Luna's performance rivals only one other lead actor's performance imo for the best performance in live action Star Wars (more on that in just a second!). Kyle Soller's Syril was a pleasant surprise standout. Overall, the cast delivered in a way that I did not expect.

The other projects imo have writing/cinematography flaws that severely effect the quality and overall enjoyment of the show.

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Obi-Wan Kenobi ranks second for me in LARGE part because, despite some valid concerns of characterization, Ewan McGregor absolutely nailed his portrayal of Master Kenobi! Ewan is a phenomenal actor. We all know this. His Obi-Wan was a highlight of the prequels, and he tried his very best to hold this show together because he cares so much about Star Wars.

Unfortunately, there are so many questionable writing issues. Chief among them, Reva's character was terribly written and the continued existence of her character damages Obi-Wan's legacy as the protector of the "last hope." Second, the budget was the smallest of all of the shows, resulting in lower quality cinematography and special effects. Lastly, there were too many strange gaffes that made the it hard to take the show serious at times (this includes the trenchcoat fiasco, Flea's portrayal of a kidnapper to name a few).

Other straws that make the show valuable and interesting to me include:

1) Excluding Reva, everything else that happened in the show doesn't present concerns for me in terms of canon compliance. In fact, the way the show ends leaves the possibility of a more introspective character story about Kenobi learning how to communicate with Qui-Gon, and his life on Tatooine.

2) The Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship. One of the key goals of the Prequels and the Clone Wars was to expand on this relationship. It is a fascinating tragedy at the heart of Star Wars. I would have loved it if the whole show was about Kenobi's guilt, seeing him get back in touch with the force, communing with Qui Gon, and Tuscan Raiders. However, the little that we did get was fulfilling, and Darth Vader releasing Obi-Wan from his guilt over Anakin was beautiful.

3) Eventhough there were critiques about having Princess Lei play the key role that she did in the show, Vivien Lyra Blair was very likeable and portrayed the spirit of princess Leia in a new way. Never in a million years would I have said that I needed or wanted to see Leia as a child, but I am glad that I did. She was for sure a highlight.

That's enough about Obi-Wan. It's not like I could possibly convince anybody who thought the show was holistically bad (a valid criticism imo) to find any redeeming qualities.

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The Mandolorian is a visually stunning show for the most part, and it serves as the foundation of live action Star Wars. Admittedly, I have little significant criticisms with the stories told throughout the series. My biggest issue with Mando, and I will continue to die on this hill, is that I want it to be more about Mandolorians. This is why, believe it or not, season 3 is my favorite season. It finally focused on the show's namesake, and builds on the incredible world of Mandalore, one of the best things to come out of the Clone Wars. I desperately want Mandalore to rise again. It's such an important planet in the canon, and people love all the lore that is associated with Mandalore.

I think Grogu is an amazing character, and I love his connections with Luke and Ahsoka. I love Din Djarin and his role as Grogu's father figure. These characters are very valuable and important, but they should not have been the focus of the show. I want more clan conflicts, and I want to see Mandalore grow! I want flashbacks to Bo Katan's childhood, when Mandalore was thriving! Why has there not been a single mention of Satine Kryze in a show called the Mandolorian? I know the show is not about Satine. Nobody is asking for the show to be about Satine. But Satine is supposed to be Bo's older sister, and there is so much character development to be expounded upon there.

Other than that, I just don't personally have a connection to the Mandolorian in a way that I do with Andor and Kenobi. Seasons 1 and 2 just really weren't my type of show. Season 3 did pique my interests tho.

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Lastly, Ahsoka! I thought Ahsoka was okay, but it really just confuses me tbh. My confusion stems from two key things: 1) Thrawn was very lackluster; and 2) the world between worlds was even more complicated.

Thrawn in the books and in Rebels is arguably the smartest, most cunning creature in the universe. This is his primary attribute which makes him stand out in a universe of force wielders, aliens, and bots. The Thrawn in Ahsoka made some questionable decisions, and heavily relied on Morgan Elsbeth as his fellow strategist. He also just looked goofy to me, but his skin is blue so I won't harp on it too much.

Unlike some fans, I find the world between worlds to be an interesting addition to the Star Wars universe. The mechanics established in Rebels were relatively straightforward: some sort of plane governed by the force containing various doors to different points in time. The mechanics of the world between worlds were complicated in Ahsoka.

First, Ahsoka entered the world between worlds (WBW) after falling off of a cliff at sea. Was the ocean a magical gateway to the WBW? Did Ahsoka die? Nobody knows. My best guess is that the WBW is probably an astral plane where one's spirit enters, and not their whole corporal being.

Secondly, if the WBW is an astral plane, that means that Anakin's soul was communicating with Ahsoka. Was he trapped there? Is he a force ghost? Do all force ghost reside here? And then Anakin's force ghost shows up at the end! I just have so many questions.

Third, Ahsoka did hop between different points in the timeline, but did so as a younger version of herself, which we have never seen before. Additionally, Ahsoka never walked through a door on her journey.

All of this just makes the world between worlds hella confusing.

I'm not that bothered by Sabine is training to become a Jedi. Let me be clear: her midichlorian levels are insanely low, and had this been in an era during the Jedi Order's prominence she would have been sneezed at. But I can appreciate having a character who is truly like the rest of us train as a Jedi. That was the whole point of Rey being a nobody, which they immediately retconed. No, Sabine being a Jedi isn't necessarily canon compliant, but the force is within us all, right? God knows I wouldn't be sufficiently force sensitive, so I can relate to Satine on a personal level.

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The last two are set apart from the rest in all fairness because I have not watched them in their entirety. I have watched 10 minutes of Boba Fett, and after hearing what was going on in The Acolyte, I watched detailed recaps of the season because I do think that Lucas Films will be creating more stories that will build on stories established therein. Overall, I don't believe that these two shows are of the same caliber as the rest of the Star Wars live action projects.

#star wars #andor series #andor #cassian andor #obi wan kenobi #the mandolarian #ahsoka tano #ahsoka series #the book of boba fett #the acolyte

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dwarf-vader-of-middle-earth · 2 years ago

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I'll never forget, when I was about 16, I went to see "Rogue One" on opening night with friends. I knew the movie had a scene with Darth Vader, and I was excited for that, but I didn't know what exactly the whole film entailed.

When I watched the characters get killed off one by one, I was heartbroken. I mourned the deaths of each one, and wondered to myself, "Will all be dead in the end?"

And then...

Then...

That's exactly what happened. All the main characters were killed off, but by the time I'd seen the ending, I didn't feel sad anymore. I felt something else.

I felt hope.

And that's when I realized: every single Star Wars story is supposed to be about hope. Hope for the future. The next generation. The next outcome. The next everything. People die, and that's a fact of life. But what we find in such a tragedy is hope. Hope that things will be better, that the deaths to end such terrible plights aren't in vain. Because good always prevails in the end in Star Wars, and we know that as fans. In doing this, we understand that the people who die never die in vain, or at least not usually. They're dying for a good cause, or because evil must be defeated.

Star Wars is about triumphing over evil, and bringing hope in doing so. Even hope in death.

#star wars #rogue one

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purplemoonfox · 1 year ago

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Honestly, I didn’t hate it. There were things they could have improved on, but then again, many shows don’t find their stride in the first season and this one didn’t have the chance to do that. I still can’t watch season 1 of The Office, it sucks.

And as someone who has done a deep dive of the original anime, they really weren’t inventing anything new. They were just making some things significantly more obvious and mixing them up.

(Except that Julia actually had agency which was easily the best part of the whole damned thing, because being Spike’s Lost Lenore, the “real woman,” something said about her at least once in the series, is objectifying as hell. It’s a narrative trope, sure, but I liked getting away from that. Plus I know he’s the classic “cool guy,” beloved of the fan base, but Spike is kind of a dick in some ways.)

In preparing to write the show, they did talk to Shinichiro Watanabe about these characters, that’s why he’s listed as a consultant (or something to that effect). The original anime characterized by implication, not explicit demonstration.

The series suffered from what I like to call “prequel syndrome,” where a large part of the fan base was bent out of shape to find out that Darth Vader isn’t just a scary Juggernaut and a lifelong badass, he’s a walking tragedy, emotionally stunted and manipulated. As someone who was very alive and conscious for that whole evolution—the acting was just a lot easier to complain about than admitting it didn’t rustle their jimmies to think of Vader as ever being uncool. Also TCW season 1 released in 2008, which has been credited with providing necessary context.

My point is that the characters in the original anime—*coughViciouscough*—didn’t always have clear characterization with underlying motivations attached. It was implied, it was not absent.

Okay. So. As someone who has now FINISHED the Cowboy Bebop Netflix TV Show Program (and yes, did a very recent rewatch of the whole series + movie), I feel most qualified to say:

It's fucking great, y'all are just mean.

The whole thing's enjoyable AF but the finale? FUCKING SLAPS. FUCKING *NECESSARY,* after the *honestly not that great* specific character-execution (ha, pun) of the original. This was Satisfying AS HELL and lets [SPOILER] be uhhhh, a Person, with a whole Arc and a VOICE and whatnot, instead of a weird passive, featureless idealized Concept of the Past??

Like pretty much everyone is MORE INTERESTING and developed in the Netflix show than the anime (aside from the main trio, who are explored in different but FUN, FITTING WAYS) by virtue of getting more time with them in 45-minute eps, but also because:

They get more than one dimension (Julia. JULIA!)

They're more expressive/fun to watch feast on the scenery/has an actual personality and reasons for doing things, even if they're shitty monstrous reasons (Vicious)

They Uhhh, live and interact, instead of appearing separately for an episode or two and then get fridged Very Tragically for shock/very special episode trans tragedy/never mentioned again/no further bearing on the plot (Ana and Gren, and arguably Shin and Mao)

And the VERY ending? The Ed-shaped elephant in the room?

FINE. IT WAS FINE. The actor (who is also nonbinary and AN ACTUAL YOUNG TEEN IN THEIR FIRST BIG ROLE and I've seen some *ugly* things aimed at them on the hellsites) is weird and loud and there's fish-eye camera and "cartoony" movements - because how in the hell else would you believably play Radical Edward? Honestly. Like if you're going to shit on this, then please... DESCRIBE EDWARD TIVRUSKY IV's mannerisms and speech, and then tell me how you'd do it in live-action. (Actually don't, I don't care, that's not the point; the point is IT WAS FINE, nothing was Ruined Forever, no one's set everyone's old DVDs on fire.)

Like if I hadn't known everyone was screaming about how terrible it was, I would have thought nothing of it and simply enjoyed the cameo/sequel-hook. Over-the-top? Dare I say, Cringe? SURE. HOW THE FUCK ELSE - nah, done.

SO yes. I really, really enjoyed it. Sincerely hope it gets a season 2 (and think it has a good chance because hatewatches ONLY BOOST THE NUMBERS), for the story that's set up, and those that still need to be told (Gren! Earth! The Gate disaster! So many questions!). Cannot wait to see what comes next.

#cowboy bebop #personal #live action cowboy bebop #live action #anime #spike spiegel

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sukugo · 3 years ago

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i know absolutely zero about star wars but u are compelling me : what is the deal with anakin and obiwan

oh CASSIE, EVERYTHING is the deal with them, where do i START

they're best friends, they're brothers, they're soulmates, they're "complementary halves” of a whole, they're obsessed with each other, they’re in love with each other, they’re intertwined in ways that i cannot explain, every single aspect of each of them is tied to the other!!!!!

so basically, anakin is obi-wan’s apprentice, obi-wan practically raised him, and is the one who taught him the jedi ways. they’ve been alongside each other since anakin was a kid. as they get older, they become incredibly close and i shit u not, this is what is canonically said about them:

more intimately than lovers??? hello?????

so yes they go from strangers

to master and apprentice

to two jedi who fight side by side like equals (well, kinda equals at least)

but well, as things are, their love story is a tragedy. (and it is a love story, confirmed by the director of the obi-wan show herself) and anakin falls, consumed by the dark side, so they clash blades

(yeah they uh...hold hands while they fight to the death, idk gay ppl be like that i guess)

obi-wan is forced to put an end to him, and that goes...bad, as one could imagine

(literally just kill me, what the fuck, i hate it here)

but well!!!! they’re also canonically obsessed with each other lmao (and each of them knows it)

even after anakin becomes darth vader, even after years have passed, he still only ever thinks about obi-wan

ASJDHKA WAIT HOW COULD I FORGET anakin is literally called out on this lmao

they’re both called out on this actually

even after anakin has become what he has, after all the things he has done, obi-wan still cannot bring himself to hate him, to want to end him.

so yeah *starts screaming*

when it comes to the dynamic itself, superior/subordinate relationships are always *chef’s kiss* and the fact that anakin calls obi-wan master just fuels the fire even more, it is very sexy

also anakin is a brat and obi-wan is the one in charge of him and who puts him in place (or at the very least, tries to lmao) and that’s...also very sexy

but he’s also so proud of him!!!! and loves him so much!!!

(i think it’s worth mentioning here that anakin has a canon praise kink) (he literally just wants to be acknowledged by obi-wan 😭 look at his face 🥺 *gives him a kiss*)

so yeah, idek if any of this makes sense, i could go on and on but i’ll stop here

at the end of the day, star wars is literally just a love story between anakin and obi-wan. it’s about how much they love each other, even after all the pain they’ve gone through and caused each other.

#i feel like this post makes absolutely no sense adjkashdkjahda #but!!!#bottom line is: they're in love oh my god they're in love #i actually didn’t want to get into too much detail and spoil too much in case u want to actually watch it #there's so many other things i feel like i haven't even scratched the surface of them #also bc of all the things that have happened there's a lot of different dynamics between them throughout the years #personally (and i noticed it while making this post) i go for the master/apprentice one where anakin is a bit younger and obi-wan teaches hi #bc he's a little brat and i love it #but then there's the part where anakin is no longer an apprentice and they fight side by side #and there's after anakin becomes darth vader where it's just pain an obsession and more pain #it's just a very good ship!! they have so much between them and i think star wars really is just a love story between them #f.ask #sw #obikin

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sunnylighter · 2 years ago

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what do u think the ninjas would dress up as 4 halloween?? (do u think the adults would dress up too,,)

Let's see...

Lil'Loyd would dress as his dad and everyone would think it was adorable.

Luh-Loyd has a dragon costume that he has worn for the last 3 years.

Cyan Nya would be the same as Luh-Loyd, only her costume is Lady Iron Dragon. Koko is always flattered.

Red Nya would try and say she's too old for this, only with the actually older than her Ninja doing it she'd have no leg to stand on, but not realize that until the last minute and have to wear the couple costume that goes with Jay's (when they're dating at least, if they're not dating at the time, she's stuck with a bedsheet ghost because Kai keeps messing with her so she can't get anything better).

Spike Kai would put on shades and be his own evil double. He gets a little too into the act.

Buddy Kai dresses like a skeleton just so he can play fight with his sister.

Freckles Jay dresses as a mad scientist and can get scarily into the act to go with the part. Lots of maniacal laughter and scientifically accurate plans.

Nick Jay would want to wear super romantic couple costumes with Nya. Romeo to her Juliet, Clyde to her Bonnie, Anthony to her Cleopatra (pointedly ignoring how all those are tragedies), those sorts of things. (If they're not dating, he just dresses like a pirate because he thinks eyepatches are cool.

Cliff Cole does the barest minimum of costumes because he'd spent his childhood stuffed into silly uncomfortable costumes for dance and he is not willingly doing that again. So a 'This IS my Halloween Costume' T-shirt would be about his speed.

DJ Cole, meanwhile, has very intricate costumes because his parents work together to make them, and he can't say no to their hard work. It helps that they know his tastes, and tend to dress him as famous rock stars. Last time he was dressed as a member of Kiss.

Zen Zane was dragged into the whole Halloween thing but is having fun dressed as the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz. It helps that Alexa Pixal agreed to be Dorothy.

Pep Zane and Penny Pixal had been planning their costume for months, and have been scaring kids with their costumes of Frankenstein's Monster and his Bride.

M!Morro's a jerk who likes to dress in the scariest thing he can make and then jump out of the bushes at unsuspecting trick-r-treaters.

Of course Lord G can't resist dressing up too, (which means the other adults are dragged in too). He has the whole family's costumes planned out with him being Darth Vader, Koko being Queen Amidala and all but stuffing Master Wu into an Obi-Wan costume. He is absolutely bummed that Luh-Loyd doesn't want to give up his dragon costume to be Luke and/or Leia.

With Lord G dressing up, Sensei G, Sensei Wu, and Misako feel they have to too, or Lil'Loyd would be disappointed. When he realizes Lil'Loyd dressing as him, Sensei G decides to dress as the Green Ninja to surprise him, and the irony is lost on no one. Sensei Wu just puts on a pointy hat and calls himself a wizard, while Misako scares them both with a scarily accurate costume of one of their many old enemies.

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queenlucythevaliant · 2 years ago

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Okay, @laurelindorenan and @catkin-morgs were interested in my Star Wars thoughts, so here ya go. No particular order, just gonna ramble. Idk what all to discuss exactly, so this will be pretty broad-strokes.

I am an Original Trilogy girl at heart and I do maintain that all three are actual masterpieces. All other Star Wars media, good bad or otherwise, is secondary in my book. Not an unusual opinion or anything, but maybe a little out of step with a lot of folks my age. I didn’t actually even see the prequel trilogy until the runup to The Force Awakens.

And I just. I can’t even articulate the fondness and joy and giddy love that I have for those first three movies. For Luke, Leia, and Han. The whole supporting cast. The sound of Darth Vader’s breathing. Wookiee noises. Lightsabers and blasters and the jump to hyperspace. The sets! Hoth and the Death Star and the Millennium Falcon and Cloud City and -- and-- they’re so immersive and tangible and lived in and it always feel likes I could just step into them. The music!

I adore every single solitary thing about the romance between Leia and Han, which was probably the first love story I ever encountered that fully captivated my heart. It’s not just the bickering, it’s the fact that they change each other! They’re fire and steel together, but also Han learns to stay and to care because he loves Leia and Leia steps away from the rebellion to go after Han. He’s blind and frightened and he asks “who’s there” and she replies, “someone who loves you.”

The themes of family tragedy and legacy and love and REDEMPTION! Han coming back to the Death Star and Lando the rebellion general and “I’ve got to save you!”/”You already have.” Luke, Luke the boy who throws aside his weapon and says “I am a Jedi like my father before me.” Who risks everything on the foolish, stupid hope that his father can be rescued from the Dark and he’s right.

Thanks heavily to the influence of my dad, I’m an old fogey Star Wars fan who vehemently rejects the special editions. I alluded to the fact that I switched over to the despecialized edition to show my roommate the original Han/Greedo scene, subtitles be damned. I plan to do the same with the ending of Return of the Jedi. Idk, maybe that’s a little too rigid of me, but I can’t help it. I’m my father’s daughter.

My personal ranking of the current cannon:

The good stuff, in order of preference: Jedi Empire, ANH (tentatively- my favorite OT movie is the one I've watched most recently), Clone Wars season 7, rest of Clone Wars, The Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2.

Revenge of the Sith is compelling in spite of itself, but I can't quite bring myself to call it good. I’m ehhh on Rogue One and Obi-Wan. I have a complicated relationship with The Last Jedi.

I actively dislike Solo, Attack of the Clones, The Force Awakens, Phantom Menace, and The Rise of Skywalker (UGH), in ascending order of badness.

Haven’t seen Andor, Book of Boba Fett, or any of Rebels apart from like, 4 episodes. Waiting to watch Mandalorian s3 with my Dad over Christmas.

I also read a whole bunch of the old EU books as a kid and while the quality is highly variable, I still have very fond memories of quite a lot of it. I fully maintain that the sequel trilogy should have pulled from the New Jedi Order series. I miss Jaina Solo.

The prequels are. Um. They’re less than the sum of their parts. The opening to Revenge of the Sith is straight fire and you know I love me a good doomed romance and I swear I could get high on “This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause.” But like. Sigh. They’re not good movies, guys. I know a lot of people my age will defend these movies, but I just. No. Y’all are nuts. The older crowd is right, the prequels are, in fact, bad, but hey, at least they gave us Clone Wars.

On the other hand, the sequel trilogy is just a blot on the series. In a vacuum, I do rather like The Last Jedi as a movie, particularly the last hour, but in the context of the original films it's terribly unfair and cruel to Luke. It had some great themes and striking visuals, though. I never much liked The Force Awakens once the initial high wore off because it was super bland and not nearly interesting enough to distract me from the fact that it broke up Han and Leia!! Like what the heck. And of course The Rise of Skywalker is utter garbage.

I wish Disney would stop it with all the new Content(tm), or at least slow down. It's just too much.

idk what else to say. I reblog Star Wars stuff on my other blog sometimes, but ironically (because it’s the biggest franchise in the world basically), Star Wars is really personal to me. I’m always, always, always gonna connect it with my dad.

#when things are really popular and also feel really personal i tend to reflexively kind of pull back with them i think #like it's weirdly hard to talk about Star Wars bc it is just so so big and yet it /feels/ like it belongs to my dad and me #idk #so like i know i haven't said anything extraordinary here but it's what i've got #pontifications and creations #also i do know i'm taking my life in my hands talking about star wars on the internet lol #if you want to disagree with anything here feel free but ya know. be chill #a star wars fan like my father before me

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trainsinanime · 2 years ago

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I think OP is very wrong here. I want to start by saying that framing the whole debate in pseudo-scientific arguments like "engaging with the material but not the narrative" is not helpful.

Karven Traviss understands the narrative perfectly well. She doesn't agree with it, something that her books make very clear, and we can have long debates whether she is able to replace it with anything better (No, Legacy of the Force did not need a Boba Fett subplot. The guy isn't that cool. Let him die). But the idea that she fundamentally misunderstands what Star Wars and in particular the Prequels are about is nonsense. It almost seems like OP is the one misunderstanding what the Prequels are about here.

OP's argument in the first post seems to boil down to, "actually, the Jedi are good guys, Karen Traviss is treating them unfairly because she isn't engaging with Star Wars on the fantasy fairy tale level that it operates on". But the Star Wars prequels are actually a bit more complex than that. No, they don't actually have black/white morality! The Jedi in those movies are not the bad guys, and they're trying to be the good guys, but crucially, they are the tragic guys. The prequels are a tragedy. If we accept the authority of George Lucas quotes (which I wouldn't, but it fits with my view), he did say that the first (only) six movies together are the Tragedy of Darth Vader.

What this means is that everything in the prequels needs to be seen through the lens of the end of the republic. Everything in there is leading up to it, thematically. Every choice that anyone in power makes, makes it more likely to end up with the Empire. They don't know it, but we, the audience, absolutely do.

All of the choices leading to the end of the republic were the results of manipulations by Palpatine, who constantly shuffled things around to create situations where these choices seemed inevitable. So every one of these choices seems reasonable or at least understandable. But that does not mean they were the right choices, especially with the benefit of hindsight afforded to us, the audience.

The first two parts of the prequel trilogy are almost subtle: Both of them make it look like the Jedi won, because they did get a minor victory and came out alive at the other end. But remember that, as the opening crawl of episode one says, the Jedi are supposed to be the keepers of peace and justice in the galaxy. Well, each of these movies ends with a bigger war. The Jedi may have won locally, but they lost globally. That's the point of these movies.

Yes, the Jedi are very hesitant when they accept the role of generals over the clones… but in the end, they still do accept it, and thus help the war grow bigger and bigger. It seems inevitable, but it does not mean it was the right choice.

This becomes completely clear by the end of episode 3, when the Jedi get punished by the damn narrative for their role in the war! Remember Order 66? The Jedi accepted an army from who knows where, ordered by we don't know, trained and programmed by no clue. They think it's the only choice, and maybe it is in that moment. But it's a mistake, and the mystery army that they didn't order and didn't pay for turns out to not be theirs after all. They got killed, just like all our incredibly cheap Alexas will murder us in our sleep one day.

Yes, the Jedi in the prequels are ineffective, just like @hearts-of-iron said. They're at the height of their power in some regards, but that does not mean they are effective. They cannot even sense the Sith Lord that runs the galaxy in the building next door. And their attempts to keep peace in the galaxy in a time of crisis only leads the galaxy further into war.

It's no secret that the Prequels are deeply political, referencing feelings George Lucas had about things like the Vietnam war. The way Jar-Jar ends the republic by giving the Chancellor emergency powers is a clear example of that. When Nathalie Portman says, "This is how democracy ends. With thunderous applause", that is one of the key moments of the movie. The fall of the Jedi order goes hand in hand with the fall of the democracy. Outwardly, it seems like all is fine. But they can't actually do their job. They're not able to keep peace. It seems like winning the war is a good substitute for that, like the Babylon 5 opening narration, but it's not.

To bring this back to Karen Traviss: She has identified herself a niche in the universe, with the inhumane treatment of the clones, that was not in the movies. And then she wrote a thousand books about it, some of which were pretty decent. It's true that "the clones are humans and deserve to be treated as such, and it's wrong that the Jedi don't" is not a point that the movies ever make. But it does fit right into the narrative of the movies, where the Jedi are very explicitly flawed and wrong about how they deal with the war, even if they think they have no other choice.

The Jedi are wrong and ineffective, and they lose. Traviss identifies an area that the movies don't talk about, but she's not far from what the movies are saying.

An aside here: The Batman analogy is obviously inappropriate here, seeing how "the Jedi are wrong" is a big explicit part of the canon, not fridge logic like the destruction of Endor. But it's also not compelling at all, because its argument for "Batman isn't an insane weirdo" is just that most people don't think so. Okay, so what? That doesn't prove that the people who think he is a violent crazy vigilante are wrong.

The whole dichotomy between "narrative" and "material" here is trying to use big words to describe a simple concept: OP thinks Karen Traviss got the text right, but misunderstood the tone, which they claim is much more positive and heroic than Karen Traviss sees it. In my opinion that's wrong, the prequels have no heroes, that's the point.

But even if it were true, so what? It's not like having multiple interpretations, or looking at things through a darker or less dark lens, is actually wrong. Yes, Karen Traviss sees things darker than the prequels make them out to be, even if we do understand the prequels as they're meant, nobody (including her!) would deny that. But that doesn't mean she's wrong, it just means she has a different opinion about what the vibes of the story should be given the text.

When a Star Wars writer engages with the material but not the narrative.

I'm writing a long post about the Jedi and the clone troopers and there's a whole section that I had to remove because it was too long:

Karen Traviss' take on the Jedi and the clones.

I already wrote about why Karen Traviss' take on the Jedi and Yoda doesn't track with what George Lucas had established in his narrative of the Prequels. Since then, I've been able to do more research.

It's no secret that one of the reasons Traviss listed for criticizing the Jedi in the Expanded Universe books she wrote is their treatment of the clones (or at least what she understood it to be).

In 2008, she wrote a now-deleted blog post about it (it was really long, so I'm only including the part relevant to my point, if you want the full context you can look it up, this is old stuff).

So if you ask me, in the above quote, Traviss is essentially doing the equivalent of saying:

"Batman is a psycho elitist who beats up the mentally ill and indoctrinates kids, turning them into child soldiers for his unending crazy vigilante war on crime, and if you can't recognize that then you scare the living crap out of me."

Like... you can argue that, and a couple of comics have argued that.

But by and large, the general consensus is that Batman is a superhero, the Robins are his sons and daughter, and the "mentally ill" are in fact the Joker and Two-Face aka mass murderers.

So if you make that argument, that's you applying your real-life values and conclusions to a narrative that deliberately doesn't acknowledge those points, in-universe, in order to tell the story it wants to tell.

It's counting on your suspension of disbelief, defined as "the avoidance—often described as willing—of critical thinking and logic in understanding something that is unreal or impossible in reality, such as something in a work of speculative fiction, in order to believe it for the sake of enjoying its narrative."

The Jedi accepting the clones and the clones being slaves isn't a "delicate point". It's barely a point at all!

It's never addressed in the film (because of course it isn't, the Prequels are about Anakin and the Republic, not the clones).

It's only addressed once by Slick, an unreliable narrator, in The Clone Wars.

That's it. Hell, in 2008, when The Clone Wars writer Henry Gilroy was asked to comment on the relationship between clones and Jedi, he explicitly said he'd "rather not get into" that particular point.

I recently got Mythmaking: Behind the Scenes of 'Attack of the Clones' and nowhere is that detail touched on by Lucas at any point.

So while Traviss acknowledges the Jedi are fictional characters, she doesn't follow that thread through to the end by acknowledging that fictional characters don't have free will, they must abide by the story and the whim of the writer.

She's engaging with the material, but refusing to engage with the narrative. She's having her cake and eating it too.

My reason for saying all this is that in the book Star Wars on Trial, she elaborates on her thought process upon discovering this detail.

Shortly before to this, she acknowledges twice that she knew nothing about Star Wars, beside seeing the original films in her youth.

Another writer who saw the new films and saw Mace Windu argue against there being a war...

... the worry on his face at the prospect of the Jedi being thrown at the Separatists...

... and the sheer melancholy on Yoda's face upon announcing the Clone War had begun...

... might have instead wondered how the Jedi, so opposed to war, could've ended up being generals.

Because while we don't see the Jedi openly protest the use of the clones in the film... they're not exactly giddy about it, either. All they can do is watch powerlessly as it gets voted by the Senate.

"The Jedi are there. But the Jedi aren't really allowed to be involved in the political process. They're there, but they can't suddenly step up and say, "No, no. You can't do that." They have to let the political process go." - George Lucas, Attack of the Clones, Commentary #2, 2002

We also don't see them take on the role of generals, either.

We only see them begrudgingly lead troops on Geonosis, specifically.

But they're not referred to as "generals" yet.

Another writer might have imagined a scene where after Geonosis, Mace Windu talks to Palpatine thinking the Jedi will go back to their roles as diplomats, and that what we saw in Attack of the Clones was a one-time thing to save Obi-Wan, but Palpatine politely goes:

"Ha! No. Didn't you hear? The Senate was so impressed by your performance on Geonosis that they voted to make you all generals in the GAR. Now, get back to the front."

Another writer might've elected to write them having that "big moral debate" she mentions.

Instead, Traviss immediately jumps on the "Jedi are elitists" train.

Because her personal experience with the military makes her sympathize with the clones and her personal belief is that - while the story may frame the Jedi as "the good guys" - nobody is that good a guy, real life people aren't that pure and selfless.

That's her choosing to take that line of thought instead of one more in-line with the story, because she perceives it as unrealistic. But like... Star Wars isn't real life, it's a fairy tale.

That's like saying:

"The hunter in Little Red Riding Hood commits animal cruelty by cutting the Wolf open. He should've let nature take its course, the wolf earned that meal fair and square. If you think the hunter should've saved Red Riding Hood and her Grandma, then clearly you're the kind of monster who thinks one life is worth more than others."

... no?

The story's narrative clearly portrays the wolf as the villain of the tale and frames the Hunter saving Red Riding Hood as a good thing.

Disagreeing with that narrative is absolutely fine, but anybody who acknowledges the wolf is the bad guy in the story isn't automatically an animal hater and/or a bad person. Just because you say "the wolf is the villain" doesn't mean that you think that, in real life, killing wolves for shits and giggles is good.

Conversely, the narrative of the Prequels asks you to suspend your disbelief and not consider the implications that having a clone army entails. Because the use of clones doesn't have a direct impact on either Anakin or the Senate's stories.

#star wars #Star Wars eu #karen traviss #still mad they killed mara jade

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antebunny · 4 years ago

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Wei Wuxian, worst supervillain: part 2

Full series here.

“Wen Ning,” Wei Wuxian, with the urgency of a doomed man. “You gotta help me.”

“What’s the problem?” Wen Ning says immediately.

“Absolutely not,” Wen Qing says, without looking up from her book.

She’s sitting comfortably on the single couch in Wei Wuxian’s so-called villain lair. In reality, he couldn’t afford anywhere else, and the Burial Mounds are rent-free and neighborless. She still made Wei Wuxian buy the red couch, and it remains the only splash of color in the whole complex.

Wei Wuxian pauses, his palms still slammed down on the creaking table in the center of the room. Wen Ning continues mixing his tea. “Okay, first off,” he says, mortally offended, “you didn’t even know what I was going to say. And second, I wasn’t even asking you!”

“I’m answering for A-Ning,” Wen Qing says calmly.

“Wen Ning is a free man!” Wei Wuxian argues. “He can make his own decisions!”

“What do you need help with?” Wen Ning intervenes, dragging Wei Wuxian’s attention away from the argument.

“I’m not being taken seriously!” Wei Wuxian wails.

Wen Qing snorts. “Why would I?”

“I didn’t mean you,” Wei Wuxian says, once more mortally offended. “I mean the superheroes! They’re not taking me seriously as a villain! Last time I robbed the national bank, they just sent Lan Zhan, and we didn’t even fight!”

“Right,” Wen Qing says drily. “You just debated philosophy for two hours.”

“He had some interesting points,” Wei Wuxian mutters sulkily. “What was I supposed to do, just not debate him?”

“Yes,” says Wen Qing.

“I can’t just ignore Lan Zhan!” Wei Wuxian says belligerently. “Anyway, shouldn’t you be concerned? If the superheroes don’t take me seriously, how am I supposed to secure the safety of your family? If I just rescue them the government will never stop hunting them!”

Wen Qing rolls her eyes. “It’s not my fault you chose the stupidest way to go about it. Now both of your siblings are mad at you.”

Wei Wuxian opens his mouth to retort and then pauses. “Okay, but,” he tries, “it’s too late now! After last Friday–”

“There were easier ways to explain to Meng Yao where he got his psychic powers from,” Wen Qing notes, a smile tugging at the corners of her lips.

Both Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning flush bright red.

“–the truth, Meng Yao,” the Yiling Patriarch said melodramatically, and his black coat billowed out behind him as he stalked towards Meng Yao.

The young man scrambled backwards over the rubble of the destroyed convenience store, his honey eyes wide with fear at the sight of the masked supervillain loomed over him. He was the communications director for the superheroes before all this happened, but during this fight Wei Wuxian had noticed his fledgling psychic powers and looked at the young man, who happened to look eerily similar to Jin Zixuan, and realized what was going on.

“They never told you what happened to your father,” Wei Wuxian continued, easily cornering Meng Yao.

Back in the Burial Mounds, Wen Ning leaned towards his computer like he could merge into the scene. His fingers flew across the keys, as he suddenly remembered some quote about a father that would be perfect for this situation. If only he could get to his list of villain phrases fast enough–

Wei Wuxian paused as the line flashed in front of his eyes, projected by his mask. Without registering the words, he read it out loud. “I am your father!”

Meng Yao stopped cowering.

The Yiling Patriarch stopped stalking dramatically. “Ah, fuck,” he said, his pointed finger drooping. “Wait–I meant–”

Two superheroes landed on the pile of rubble beside Meng Yao.

“Darth Vader, The Empire Strikes Back,” Hanguang-jun said confidently.

“How are you so fucking stupid,” Sandu Shengshou said, almost wonderingly. Bright purple lightning crackled around his fingertips.

“Shut up, I don’t know you!” The Yiling Patriarch cried. “I meant Jin Guangshan! I meant Jin Guangshan!”

“I think Zewu-jun’s handling it,” Wei Wuxian says evasively.

Wen Qing snorts. “Sure.”

“The point is they’re not taking me seriously!” Wei Wuxian insists. “Wen Ning, what can I do to make them take me seriously as a villain?”

“Do something only a villain would do,” Wen Ning suggests.

“Well obviously,” Wei Wuxian says. “But what?” He pulls out the chair across from Wen Ning and plonks himself down in it. They both ponder this question.

“Maybe you could kidnap a hero?” Wen Ning suggests.

Wei Wuxian brightens. “That’s a great idea! But who?”

“Oh my God,” Wen Qing mutters from her comfy seat on the couch.

“Not Jiang Cheng, he’d kill me,” Wei Wuxian muses. He props his chin up with one hand. “And I don’t want to kidnap someone who’d get actually scared…Lan Zhan! Perfect. I’ll kidnap their precious Hanguang-jun. Then they’ll have to take me seriously!”

"Kill me now," Wen Qing groans.

When Lan Wangji wakes up to see the Yiling Patriarch looming over him, he thinks he’s still dreaming for one embarrassing moment. He’s glad he recognizes his mistake, or he would’ve said or done something mortifying that he prefers not to think about.

“Good morning, Lan Zhan!” The Yiling Patriarch says, grinning evilly. “You are in the lair of the Yiling Patriarch.”

Lan Wangji sits up. He’s on a soft red couch, wrapped in at least three blankets. Other than that, the large room is rather sparse; the walls are plain stone, as is the floor, save for a threadbare rug on top of which a rickety old table sits, with four chairs of varying styles situated around it.

“How does it feel to know you’ve been kidnapped by your worst enemy?” The Yiling Patriarch says gleefully.

He leans closer, and Lan Wangji swallows, his throat dry. It seems that the Yiling Patriarch forgeos his high-collar black coat when he’s at home. He’s currently wearing a baggy black shirt and black ripped jeans, which means that when Lan Wangji looks up, he’s looking directly at his collarbone, then up at his jawline, and then at the bottom half of his face. As he leans in, his lips curve in a wicked smile, and no, Lan Wangji not thinking about his forearms, or those beautiful, slender hands–

“How does it feel knowing you’ve been rendered powerless?” The Yiling Patriarch continues. His silver eyes track the movement of Lan Wangji’s throat. “Are you uncomfortable?” He asks worriedly. “This place has no heating–you know, free rent, that’s how it is–and I didn’t have anywhere else to put you, but I thought I brought enough blankets. Do you want tea? I can make tea!”

And the Yiling Patriarch bustles off, throwing a “Be right back! Don’t go anywhere!” over his shoulder.

Lan Wangji pushes the blankets off. “I am quite comfortable,” he says to himself. Perhaps he could’ve said it earlier, but he wasn’t going to dissuade the Yiling Patriarch from making him tea.

The Yiling Patriarch returns with two cups of jasmine tea, and invites Lan Wangji to take a seat at his table.

“Sorry about the chairs, they’re kinda falling apart,” the Yiling Patriarch says. “I got them at a yard sale. Well, four different yard sales, so none of them match.”

“It is fine,” Lan Wangji says.

“Right, right.” The Yiling Patriarch clears his throat, and pushes one teacup towards Lan Wangji. “Anyway. I thought it was time I proved my worth as a villain, don’t you think?” He leans back in his chair. One of the chair legs squeaks.

“You could always retire,” Lan Wangji suggests.

The Yiling Patriarch’s casual smile drops. “Not until I’ve done what I set out to do,” he says seriously. He pulls up his villain smile again. “Though I’m sure you heroes must be eager for me to retire, hm?”

“I am worried one day you might be seriously injured,” Lan Wangji replies.

“Ah, Lan Zhan, Lan Zhan,” the Yiling Patriarch says, shaking his head. “The tragedy is not to die, but to be wasted. I have so much–”

“Hannibal Lecter,” says Lan Wangji.

The Yiling Patriarch scowls at him. “Stop doing that. As I was saying, I have so much to do, and so little time on this earth. If I must turn to villany to accomplish my goals, then I will. You cannot debate me into giving up my pursuits.”

“Why must you turn to villainy?” Lan Wangji asks. He drinks his tea. It’s over boiled, but still the best tea he’s ever had.

“Because otherwise, nobody listens,” the Yiling Patriarch says. “You think I didn’t try the proper way first?”

“No doubt you tried,” says Lan Wangji. “Nevertheless: what are your goals? Why do you hide your face? Who are you protecting?”

The Yiling Patriarch slams his teacup down. “You want the truth?” He pauses. “You can’t handle the truth!”

Lan Wangji sips his tea. “Colonel Nathan Jessup, A Few Good Men.”

“Stop doing that!” The Yiling Patriarch cries. He stands up and shakes his finger very threateningly at Lan Wangji. “You seem to have forgotten that you have been kidnapped, Lan Zhan.”

“I have not,” Lan Wangji says. The location leaves something to be desired, but other than that he thinks it’s a very fine first date.

“Then–! Don’t forget who holds the power in this situation!”

“Mhm,” Lan Wangji agrees. He sips his tea again. “Thank you for the tea.”

“O-oh, of course,” the Yiling Patriarch says, thrown. He sits down again. “You seemed like a no sugar type of person.” He pauses. “I mean, if you want sugar, I have some in the pantry. I think. Unless we ran out.”

“No need,” Lan Wangji says. He is, in fact, a no-sugar type of person.

“That’s good,” the Yiling Patriarch says. He smiles at Lan Wangji, who almost smiles back, heart set aflutter by the gentle smile on the Yiling Patriarch’s face.

“What is your plan?” Lan Wangji asks.

“My plan?” The Yiling Patriarch echoes, thrown once more. “I mean, my villainous plan! Uh. The one that I have.”

“Is this all for your image?” Lan Wangji presses.

“Of course,” the Yiling Patriarch says immediately. “You know me. Vanity, definitely my favorite sin.”

“John Milton, The Devil’s Advocate.”

“Shut up! I can’t believe you memorized all these quotes,” the Yiling Patriarch bemoans. “Lan Zhan, you’re ruining all my fun.”

Lan Wangji sips his tea again. “I am quite capable of research.”

“I’ll say,” he mutters.

“It is not too late to turn back,” Lan Wangji says, trying for once to put the turmoil of emotion he feels into his tone. “We can still put old wounds behind us. I can help you.”

The Yiling Patriarch slumps against his table. “Can we?” He asks, subdued. “After all, our scars have the power to remind us that the past was real.”

“Hannibal Lecter again,” says Lan Wangji.

“Fuck you! Hannibal Lecter is a good villain!” The Yiling Patriarch swells belligerently.

“And you,” Lan Wangji says calmly, “are not a very convincing villain.”

“What do you mean?” The Yiling Patriarch demands. “I kidnapped a hero! Only villains do that!” He sweeps one arm across the situation, gesturing at the hot jasmine tea and the pile of blankets on the couch behind them, and at Lan Wangji, seated primly on the old wooden chair provided for him. “This is a kidnapping!”

“Hm,” Lan Wangji says.

“I am a supervillain!” The Yiling Patriarch insists. “There’s no coming back from that. I destroyed a skyscraper last week. I’ve cost the government too much money for them to ever forgive me. There’s no way for you to redeem me!”

“There is nothing to redeem,” Lan Wangji says sharply.

The Yiling Patriarch flinches. When he stops, his expression is scraped raw. “R-right,” he says shakily. “O-of course–”

“I meant there is nothing to redeem, because you are already good,” Lan Wangji says hurriedly, realizing the misinterpretation of his statement.

The Yiling Patriarch pauses, mouth half open. “Lan Zhan, there’s no way for you to know that,” he croaks. “You don’t even know my name.”

“I do,” Lan Wangji says quietly. “And I don’t need to.” He hesitates, then reaches for the Yiling Patriarch's hand. He grips it tight, and the Yiling Patriarch lets him. “You are good.”

The Yiling Patriarch draws in a shaky breath. “Wei Ying,” he blurts. “Courtesy Wuxian. That’s. My name.”

Lan Wangji can feel the corners of his lips curve into a smile. “Wei Ying,” he repeats. “Wei Ying, you are good.”

#antebunny's ficlets #my writing #writeblr #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wen qing #wen ning #mdzs #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #wangxian

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sailor-hufflepuff · 1 year ago

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Honestly, the whole thing makes me even more in awe of the Lars/Organa/Kenobi conspiracy.

Like… the ONLY THING that saved Luke and Leia was that Palpatine didn’t know they existed. (Well, he knew Leia existed, but you know what I mean).

Darth Vader is what happened when Palpatine had somewhat limited access to a Skywalker from the age of nine.

Kylo Ren is what happened when he had access to a Skywalker from the womb.

And both characters manage to retain a kernel of light, of goodness, a scrap of love from their families, that they were able to come back in the end, to fling off the chains when it mattered most.

That Anakin died right after is a Tragedy - he never lived a single day without calling someone “Master”, and he never got the opportunity to try and heal some of what he had helped destroy. But he was old (for a slave) and at least his name is redeemed, his suffering is over, and his children are safe and ready to build a new galaxy.

That Ben died is a terrible storytelling. His family is gone, the woman he loves is left alone, the Galaxy is in shambles, and there’s no sign that anything will ever get better.

Showing young Ben as thinking "maybe the Empire was right" is just such a fundamental misunderstanding of his storyline and what happened to him. He had the literal star wars personification of evil inside his head from a young age (originally shown in the comics, confirmed on screen in tRoS), telling him that maybe he was evil too, that the people around him knew it. And unintentionally, they play into that, even when they're trying to do their best for him: Leia sends him to train with Luke, hoping her brother who's spent years studying the Force, one of the only people she can trust, will be able to help her son who is struggling with elements she has no experience with, and Palpatine is there to whisper in Ben's mind that this is rejection, they're sending him away because they know he's evil and hate him for it. Luke tries to treat him as equal, and Palpatine is there giving the same explanation of rejection. All this building up to Luke standing over him with his saber, because he's seen the people he loves dying because of this kid, and it's the final confirmation for Ben that everything Palpatine has ever told him is true, that the people who should love him want him dead.

And it's a tragedy, because Leia and Luke (and Han) had no idea what they were fighting against, had no way to understand what was really happening to Ben, and Palpatine has been haunting the Skywalkers since the beginning, taking everything that should've been good in them and twisting it for himself. Ben is an echo of Anakin, where Palpatine was able to speak into the ear of the chosen one and corrupt all his potential because he always has a plan far beyond what the heroes can see. And to heal the wound from Palpatine, Ben should've been able to live free of his influence, but Palpatine succeeded in killing every single one of his family in the end and that's the tragedy we're met with.

But yeah. Positioning Ben as this contrary kid who's taking an edgy political stance to be contrary has nothing to do with his actual character or arc. He never shows any interest in the politics of the First Order throughout the movies or additional material. Maybe you're thinking of Hux.

#the skywalkers are a gd tragedy #ben solo #anakin skywalker #star wars

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ariainstars · 4 years ago

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Congratulations, We Fell for Another Love Bombing or Thank You, Disney, You Did It Again

Sigh. Luke Skywalker is back. And Din Djarin and his child had to say goodbye. I never thought I would curse and say “Oh no!” when Luke appeared in that fateful corridor.

I wonder why the Disney studios are doing this - trying to "make up” for the oh-so criticized sequels, I suppose?

The Jedi have made their time. It was shown and proven over and over again that their attitude is wrong and needs to change, and Luke was the last of the old school Jedi. Again, a Force-sensitive child is all but kidnapped by a Jedi: he obviously did not like to go. Mando is no longer the hero of the story, he was stripped of his agency and all of his personal choices were questioned and valued for null and void. But the Dark Saber is in his hands now, so he’s the heir to the throne of Mandalore I guess. Like he ever wanted that.

This show, which grew to be so well-beloved in only a few episodes, now is not “The Mandalorian” any more. Its new title is “Luke’s Skywalker’s Comeback”. Hardcore fans may be out of their minds with joy, but for us, who admired Mando both as a badass hero and as a father figure and loved the dynamics between him and Grogu, the whole purpose of the show is destroyed. And here I naively had thought The Rise of Skywalker was bad enough to teach the studios not to repeat its mistakes.

~~~ more under the cut ~~~

Star Wars ought to be a fairy tale. It is and always was one. I can understand that the prequels had to end in a tragedy, we all knew that from the start, but why the sequels? And now, why must this generally acclaimed and beloved tv show again appease hardcore fans of old with Luke coming to save the day, cancelling in a matter of minutes what the story had built up within two entire seasons - the relationship of the two protagonists, heart and core of the narrative, as it had been with Rey and Ben Solo? And when both of them had their relationship just getting started - Rey and Ben kissing, Din calling Grogu by his name and the latter seeing him and touching his face? Why make Rey a queen without her king, and Din a father without a son?

Again, a Force-user is denied having a home: „Jedi training” matters more. By Luke of all people, the guy who never was trained in the first place (only very briefly), who except for a few lessons with Obi-Wan and Yoda was self-taught in the Force, and never understood that his strength lay with his compassion and his connection with other people, not with his alleged „superpowers”.

Think back to how Anakin, Luke and Rey were before they met the Jedi: unaware of their powers, compassionate, idealistic, brave. The Jedi mindset tainted their characters and lives, making them believing that they are (or have to be) untouchable and invincible, compelling them to live for duty instead of love, condemning them to a lifetime of loneliness. Will the Jedi never learn?

Though I practically grew up with the classic movies, I loved The Last Jedi; I can accept that Luke failed, and also that Han and Leia did. Nobody is perfect, and the Jedi mindset as well as the universally accepted idea that „Jedi” is a synonym for infallible saint-like hero was wrong in the first place, else the Empire never would have risen. Making Luke not the cavalry who came to save the day - until the battle on Crait, that is - but a man who failed and picked himself up again was much more meaningful, and I know not a few fans who felt inspired by this. Luke had saved his father choosing love over power, not the contrary. Some fans just never get it. To appease them, why not simply give him a new storyline of his own, instead of making him intrude in other Star Wars related shows? Why stop the new stories in their tracks just to bring him back?

Instead of seeing Luke as the grand kickass hero in a tv show that never had anything to do with him until now, it would have been more to the purpose to finally shed light on the thirty years between his father’s and his nephew’s death, to explain us where the Jedi and the Skywalker-Organa-Solo family failed to make such an outcome possible - the granddaughter of Palpatine taking over with their own blessing. There must have been a huge build-up between the end of the original saga and the fateful night at the temple when Luke briefly panicked looking into his nephew’s mind. Many fans still are convinced that „Kylo Ren just chose to be bad” because we hardly know how the relationship between these two was in the first place. (A very easy plot twist would e.g. have been Snoke warning Ben that his uncle sooner or later would turn on him, frightened by his power. The fulfilment of that prophecy would have made the night at the temple much more impactful.)

I understand that the studios want to tease us, to make us watch the other shows, too. But honestly, I’m getting tired of feeling duped. Tired of getting attached to new heroes to have their purpose smashed just so the Star Wars dudebro fans can sleep quietly at night because „some Jedi will take care of it”. First the characters from the sequels, now the ones from The Mandalorian. You get to love the new characters, you root for them to find happiness or at least some closure, and then, at the last moment, poof!, the hero of old comes back and the story development stops right there.

It is not right and it never was for the Jedi to take Force-sensitive children away from home, to enforce „you have to become a Jedi, like it or not” on them, to teach them not to have attachments, to make them focus on the Light Side thereby bringing the Force out of its much-needed balance. While Ahsoka saw that Grogu has formed a strong attachment to Din Djarin, Luke obviously did not, or he did not care. The irony is that he always wanted a father, and knows the pain of losing a father you’ve just found.

The Mandalorian felt like a consolation after Episode IX, a blessing for the fans for whom heart and soul are more interesting than nostalgia and „Jedi superheroes”. Now it’s just another kick in the guts. It’s painful and embarrassing to get to love characters so much, to get invested in their story so deeply, and then to realize again that they seem to mean nothing in the shade of the heroes of old. Ben Solo died young and miserable and Din Djarin and Grogu can now, I suppose, be miserable too. Can someone please explain to me why after the classics, no Star Wars film or show had an uplifting ending any more? With the possible exception of Solo, which was a nice filler but not a really important storyline. (I do not count Episodes I and II, they officially had a happy ending but it was tainted by the knowledge of what was to come.)

Fans are not blind. We saw the parallels between Darth Vader and Din Djarin as well as the differences - both being cool and tough but the latter not disdaining to be a caring father at the same time. The entire show lived from the dynamics between the gruff but kind bounty hunter and the innocent-looking powerful child, ever from the first episode. Two years of build-up for nothing, as it was with the four years of the sequels. Mando has to relinquish Grogu, Rey loses Ben. What was all that for? Both Mando and Rey are fighters, they have done nothing else their entire lives. What is to become of them now that they have nothing to fight for any more, nor anyone to live for? Except staying on a planet that is foreign to them and, for all they know, inhabitable or at least inhospitable?

With Rey and Ben Solo, the situation was different: she had proven good intentions but bad attitude (arrogance, violence, judgement) over and over, unable to deny her heritage, and even impaled her „antagonist” once while he was only defending himself. He had been the head of a criminal organization for years, and had committed patricide. Of course there are nuances to these characters and I still believe that they would have deserved another chance; I understand however that would have been unfitting to let the sequels end giving them a happy ending.

But in the case of Din Djarin, a man of honor, who has made friends and brought peace wherever he went throughout the galaxy? Grogu, the last surviving padawan of the old Jedi temple, who saved both his and Greef Karga’s life despite the danger for himself? What did they do to deserve being ripped apart like that?

So, all I can say: thank you, you did it again. And, once more, just before Christmas. I wish at least these depressing endings would be released at some other time.

I would dearly want to see a galaxy that finally learned from its faults, where family and attachments and Balance and free choice are not contrary to being a Jedi. I am in my late forties and I’m beginning to give up hope that I will live to see it. By now I am wondering whether George Lucas himself will live to see it.

I always loved Luke. He is one of my favorite heroes. But now he’s become an insensitive know-it-all who suffered from his own daddy issues to the point that he almost died crying out to his father for help, yet did not learn not to separate fathers from children and vice versa and, on the contrary, is doing it over and over again. He did not even tell Mando his name, or where he could reach him. We don’t have a clue as to if, when and how the Clan of Two will meet again.

I get it that since this show is set five years Return of the Jedi, it would have been difficult to ignore Luke’s existence altogether. And of course, we can rest assured that Luke will do his best for Grogu. But still: he has made his time. I wanted to see the new heroes going their own way, not hanging on the sleeves of the former generation. Mando is a man of honor, he had promised to bring Grogu to his own kind and he relinquished him despite his own wishes. (Not to mention that technically, since he identifies as a Mandalorian, by being a Jedi Luke is his enemy.) Why did Luke have to take the child away? His greatest strength always was that he was first and foremost himself and only in the second place a Jedi. What became of his trademark compassion?

Before The Mandalorian, we have never seen a healthy and working father-son relationship in the saga. It was incredibly refreshing and heart-warming to see these two traveling through the galaxy and living through adventures together; also, contrarily to Yoda, Grogu saw a lot of the bad things happening in the galaxy with his own eyes, which certainly was good for his character development.

But in the end, both he and his „father” did not go anywhere. Like Rey in Episode IX, they found a) power and b) a surrogate place, but neither got what was actually his heart’s wish - a home. I can’t understand why. Deliberate cruelty? We never knew whether Han and Leia and Ben felt how painful it was to break up their little family for the sake of „Jedi training”. You bet Din and Grogu did feel that pain and loss.

Both as a person with a heart and a brain and an almost lifelong Star Wars fan I am sickened by the readiness of the studios to end all that this well-made show had built up, for the appeasement of Jedi worshippers who just don’t want to see that the Jedi mindset needs urgently to change. It can’t be that difficult to renew them for the better; there is no necessity to erase the Jedi completely and there is nothing bad with making them grow wiser and stronger by finally understanding and accepting the importance of attachments and family ties. Yes, I realize that being a father also means learning how to let go; but here we are speaking of a literal child, not of a young adult who chose his own way in life.

I thought that George Lucas knew why he sold his franchise to the Disney studios, given their tradition in telling stories about family and friendship. This development is not a triumph, it is unworthy both of the studios and of the entire Star Wars saga. I’m tired of producers bowing down before fans who see every shred of the saga through „Jedi are always right”-tinted glasses respectively who value coolness over compassion even though it always was the saga’s central message.

Whatever happens in Season 3, countless fans will only be watching it asking, „Where’s Luke?” If Grogu should choose to join Mando again, everybody will be like, „But how can he want to leave Luke Skywalker of all people?” Some already see Grogu die prematurely, killed by the oh-so-bad guy Kylo Ren, for no other reason than to just to further prove how evil he is. In which case both Ben Solo and Grogu will have lived and died for nothing except for leaving a lot of heartbreak behind.

There must be another and better way to honor the legacy of both Luke Skywalker and the original trilogy than to think up new heroes and then destroy their purpose for the sake of old times’ glory. Lucas himself had said that Star Wars is basically for twelve-year-olds. It seems not: it’s for the fans who were twelve years old forty years ago, when the first movies hit theatres.

There are enough voices crying out for the sequels to be erased from canon. Who knows? This may be the next step into the past instead of the future. The sequels were hinting at a better future (Balance), Grogu was, too (family). But the grand past is so reassuring. The sequels tried to tell the audience to grow up and learn to do without their heroes, to see that even they were flawed and that the new heroes could grow beyond them. Fie on them, said the hardcore fans. Now it’s the turn of the younger generation, who got to know and love the saga with the sequels or The Mandalorian, to be like „WTF”.

Rogue One also had been a huge disappointment to me. Not that I found it badly made, but I went into a depressive mood for three days for the same reason: I did not like that I had grown so attached to all of these characters only to see all of them die. The infamous Darth Vader scenes and the design with the huge hints at the classic movies were no consolation. Nostalgia does not make me happy. Heart does. Rogue One, the sequels and The Mandalorian were all, in the end, deprived of all human feeling except loss and regret and many, many thoughts about what might have been.

The Mandalorian was an excellent story on its own. It did not need Luke Skywalker. It is and ought to be Din Djarin’s story, who lost or gave up everything because he was afraid to lose the child: and now he did. It’s not comforting that he lost him to the alleged Good Guy. Luke of course won’t turn a hair on Grogu’s head, but he can’t offer him a home, we already know that. Ahsoka saw the attachment between the two and she knows the dangers of it; Luke does not know what drove his father to his terrible fate. If the sequels remain canon, then we already know that Luke will not allow his pupils having and keeping healthy attachments. And that does not promise well for the child’s future.

Unless the studios commit the madness of officially erasing the sequels and starting the saga anew, we can only hope that the child will not stay with Luke for long since it’s a good five years before he will start his own Jedi temple. Maybe he will die of a broken heart, poor little guy. And Din Djarin might become the new ruler of Mandalore, though sad and alone. But who cares: Luke is back. Please: I did not subscribe to Disney+ wanting to see Schwarzenegger movies. The lonesome hero can ride into the sunset for all I care, out of sight and of mind. Star Wars’ greatest strength always was its heart.

My own take was that Grogu is meant to be a healer, and since Luke is not, there is no way he can teach him this particular skill in the Force. Anakin was a pilot and a mechanic, Luke and Ben also were pilots. None of them were Jedi by choice. Grogu is older than Luke and he was already trained at the old Jedi temple: he’s more likely to be a teacher to Luke than the other way around. Grogu as the first Force-user who values attachment and family over power and Jedi training, that would indeed have been a new hope. This backpedaling is shallow and useless. Even if Luke sends Grogu back to Din Djarin, this won’t teach him not to take a child away from its home, since only a few years later he will do the same thing to his nephew. (Although it would admittedly be an interesting plot point to see a small Ben Solo interacting with Grogu for a while.)

Please give us back The Mandalorian the way it was, with its characters and dynamics. The themes and messages of The Last Jedi already were almost all aborted in The Rise of Skywalker; we didn’t sign up on Disney+ to see the exact same thing happen with The Mandalorian. I for my part am fed up with this kind of love bombing followed by a quick and coldblooded let-down. Star Wars may be a cult, but it need not be the kind of cult where you get hooked and then unwittingly follow a carrot hanging before your eyes. I thought the exaggerated Jedi cult was mostly made by the fans: the studios did not need to jump on this ship. This is not the Way.

Now everything I feared is flaring up again - fans jubilating because “the Jedi are taking matters in hand” instead of accepting the failure of the Jedi mindset at last; and even insisting that since things are going so well, all Disney needs to do is to cancel the sequels from canon and everybody can be happy again.

Please, please, give this tormented galaxy a chance to heal at last. We don’t need Luke Skywalker to save the day by killing all the bad guys. We don’t need the oh-so-powerful and perfect Jedi. We need faith in the Force. We need a home. Don’t take it away from us again. Thank you.

P.S. If we see Luke again in Season 3, at least give the role to a live actor. That digital “rejuvenation” made him look wooden. Luke’s best trait, apart from his compassion, always was his smile.

P.P.S. What’s with Boba Fett claiming Jabba’s throne? I thought Jabba had a son. What in the galaxy happened to him?

P.P.P.S. I don’t mind kickass women, but honestly, I’m getting somehow tired of them. What became of the ladies of Star Wars, the diplomats, the good queens, the loving mothers, the accurate librarians, who contribute to the galaxy without killing (or hurting) anyone? I’m feeling kind of underrepresented here...

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kissingcullens · 4 years ago

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Sam killing Dean at the end of the show is so big brained, thank you for sharing it with us

Listen!!

They could never pull it off, but if it was done WELL, I think that would have been amazing. Again, in a perfect world, I personally would have preferred a happy ending and atonement from Dean...

...and TBH my gut instinct is that having Sam kill Dean himself would be too fucking brutal, if only for how much that would fuck Sam up... (haha, unless...? 👀)

...but if the writers “always knew they wanted to kill Dean...” smh! They could have really gotten some flavor and some DRAMA by making Dean Vs. Sam the final conflict??

Maybe under the leadership or manipulation of somebody else, maybe not... idk how it would happen but of course it would have to have a good amount of buildup; a few seasons at least- and it would have to be done in such a way where both men have powerful motivation so that the audience FEELS the conflict and it feels genuine and inevitable.

But what could be more climactic, personal and impactful for the FINAL season than to finally have that battle between Sam & Dean the writers kept flirting with and flinching away from!?

Silver vs. Flint!! Betrayal! Drama!! Tragedy!!! Brothers on opposite sides of a divide too great to cross... Dean knowing Sam so well that it’s easy to anticipate his next move, and vice versa...

Like the way that the central conflict in the series was so often Sam and Dean being pitted against one another- (Lucifer vs. Michael obviously, and they had a whole thing about the goddamn Mark of Cain for gods sakes; the original fratricide)

-and how much of their dynamic is Sam shrinking to fit into this box of acceptable behavior to avoid violence from Dean, while Dean loses sight of his original justifications for his own violence (to protect Sam, to protect people...)

The way that in S1 John told Dean “You will have to either save your brother, or you will have to kill him.”

The way S4 Dean said he’d rather let Sam die than allow him to be a monster... the many Sam stand-in characters that Dean murders or tries to kill, like Amy, Cyrus, Jack, the Rugarou, etc...

And that becomes an overarching theme for the show, and we see a Dean who, for whatever reason, comes to believe that he and Sam are on opposite sides of a conflict... planning to do something SO heinous that Sam finally believes that Dean is out of control and needs to be stopped. (Maybe it involves Jack?? Or even the return of Amy’s young son, who would be a teenager or a young adult by now...)

The way that the show could expand on how Dean’s tragic flaw; the thing that Dooms him, is that he can’t grow beyond the tiny box that Hunting and his father have put him in, and that he would even kill his beloved baby brother to maintain that status quo... as long as Dean cannot accept otherness or ambiguity, he and Sam are inevitably fated to clash.

Dean becomes his father... becomes even worse than his father, because for Dean, Hunting and annihilating the Other becomes THE End Goal in itself, and his motives and moral qualms get obliterated one by one as with each hunt he crosses his own boundaries of morality...

And yeah, maybe there’s a huge fight, or maybe Dean accepts another possession-style bargain, or maybe Sam just chooses to side with the Monstrous and they fall out and Dean hardens his heart against his brother. (“I don’t have a brother.”)

OH and you know how you can compare “first and last scenes” for parallels?

What if the last fight was Dean breaking into Sam’s living space, just like he did 15 years earlier when he was just a young man breaking into his baby brother’s apartment in the middle of the night... but this time it’s with deadly intent.

And Sam’s original goal to escape his abusive family (a family that is unable to accept him, and equally unwilling to let him go) finally comes to its shocking and inevitable, violent conclusion. So good!

It would be tragic of course; maybe Dean has his Darth Vader moment where he flips at the last moment and saves Sam from the villain sneaking up to stab him in the back and sustains a fatal wound himself, and you have that heartbreaking scene dying in your brother’s arms, repenting... the pain!? The DRAMA!!!

#/#//#///#////#/////#supernatural for ts #SPN for ts #Dean critical

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padmesbox · 5 years ago

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There are two major things I just cannot stand about the Star Wars Disney sequel trilogy, like I hate it all from beginning to end, but like there’s these two aspects I simply can’t bear to think about.

1) The complete and utter annihilation of Anakin Skywalker’s life and legacy, like how this fucking joke of a trilogy spits in the face of everything Anakin went through (slavery, grooming, manipulation, peer pressure, misery, pain, torture, pain and slavery again) and tosses it in the trash. I’m not even talking about the gross leaks yet, because I am doing everything in my power to wait until the actual movie officially comes out and the leaks are either proven right or wrong (though I’m not hopeful, after GoT, I have zero hopes that these horrible leaks are fake, way to fucking ruin Hayden’s return to the franchise), no, I’m talking about the sole fact that Palpatine is back, but not as a sith spirit or whatever, but as an actual living person who survived the events of ROTJ, rendering Anakin’s ENTIRE life meaningless, adding to the pile of his legacy meaning jack shit because his son, the man that saved the galaxy through love, couldn’t give the same chance to his nephew, the nephew who, to also add to the pile, turned to dark side because he wanted to be like Darth Vader.

So in the end, Anakin’s whole existence and death and sacrifice meant nothing lol. And if the leaks end up being true... oh boy, Disney will wish they never bought LucasFilm or hired Kathleen Kennedy at the very least :)

2) Leia’s character being masterfully screwed over by the whole fucking concept of the shit sequel trilogy, which also screwed Luke over, but not like her. Everything Leia was and came from, everything she worked for and became were all made out to be worthless. From the moment Leia (and Luke) was conceived, she was a rebel, she was the product of a forbidden relationship that defied everything the old ways of the jedi stood for, a rebel through and through since the womb. Her real mother and her adoptive father founded the rebel alliance, she grew up a rebel, she worked her entire life to achieve peace and bring democracy back to the galaxy, but how long did that last? 10-15 years? They dissed her new republic in the mandalorian and as much as I am loving that show, I can’t tell you how much that bothered me because it means her new republic didn’t even have a good start, that it never stood a chance, so it was just doomed to fail, which it did, miserably.

She saw all of her dreams and the dreams of all the people who died for the cause, crumble like a sand castle against the waves, so easily. And Disney didn’t only leave it at that, no, Leia had to also deal with the fact that she lost her ONLY son to the dark side that had also taken her parents (all 4 of them) and her peace from her, she lost her boy to that evil creature who didn’t even matter at all in the end, anyway, and on top of it all, had her son murder the love of her life.

So Leia has to carry around not only her own tragedy, of her own dreams shattered, her own failure as a politician and the suffering of being a mother who lost her child, but also the tragedy of her mother and adoptive parents’ fight and sacrifice meaning nothing when the new republic, the new dream of peace and democracy, was so weak and poorly handled that it fell to a much more incompetent version of the empire; and even the tragedy of her biological father’s sacrifice meaning nothing when her own son was a part of that incompetent fascist organization because he wanted to be Vader, the person Anakin cast aside in the end to save his children, only for that to become his legacy, anyway.

I just can’t stand this. I hate Disney, and even though I joined the Star Wars madness just 4 years ago, I hate what it did to this flawed but compelling story, which was just... they just carbon copied the original trilogy and called it a day, and they didn’t even copied properly, they had to destroy the model first, bit by bit, hoping there would be no trace of it and they could take the cookie home. Luckily, for better or for worse, the star war fans’ memory is hard to erase.

#anti sequel trilogy #anti jj abrams #anti rian johnson #anti kathleen kennedy #oh gosh I hadn't used anti tags in a while in a post that truly is anti lol #I am just so fking angry at what they attempt to do ahdbjdhjbjs #Anakin Skywalker #Leia Organa #Leia Skywalker #the Skywalker saga #sw rant

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