#anti tyrion

[littlebird-whitewolf]

rant incoming!

sandor: you’ve changed, little bird. none if it would’ve happened if you’d left king’s landing with me. no little finger, no ramsay, none of it.

sansa: without little finger and ramsay and the rest, i would’ve stayed a little bird all my life.

let’s not forget the hound had just before this brought up her violent rape as if mocking her or rubbing it in her face. with no verbal rebuttal from her about that. it left such a sour taste in my mouth when i watched it

it’s as if he’s mad at her for not having responded to his lust for her with love and trust when she was a CHILD being held hostage by her family’s enemy who had killed her father and brother, and as if he hadn’t been serving said family the whole time

out of the many things i didn't like about how the writers ruined the last season, this one stands out the most- being one that still boggles my mind (including a sansa gif because i need to see my beautiful girl and calm down)

them making sansa casually dismiss her horrific past and basically absolving her abusers by saying that. and it's so tiring because sansa h@ters will always bring up how she was an outsider to the starks because she "betrayed" her family and also "sucks because she's not a tomboy like arya or has dragons like d@nny" BUt the moment you bring up the fact that she was also a literal child, held hostage and abused for years, that all the men in her life were abusers, even the "kinder" ones because they wanted something from her, they first of all dismiss all that by denying that their fav male characters (tyrion, sandor) are not pr3dators and secondly, saying her abuse is in the past and doesn't matter anyway because she said herself that "without ... and all the rest, [she] would have remained a little bird all [her] life"

it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[esther-dot]

Same anon that rewatched got with a friend. I noticed than in s6, when Dany comes back with Drogon and the Dothraki, she says she will crucify the masters, burn their fleet, kill all of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. Tyrion objects and finally convinces her to not do all that. Then Tyrion says to the masters that Dany has a "forgiving nature", despite what her first instinct actually was. The scene right after that is Ramsay reuniting with Jon and Sansa, and he says that he's a "man of mercy", when we all actually know what kind of man he is. I know Dany stans hate it, but the parallels between both characters are evident. It don't know why D&D put so much attention to details in instances like that only to give up later on.

(Continuation of this convo)

Oh wow, nice catch, anon!

There were a number of parallels between the characters which is part of why it was so insulting that in the end, D&D made "good guys" defend Dany--it wasn't only disgusting to do that after she was a mass murderer, but it went against their own storytelling!

I'll link this list with lots of the parallels in case you're interested, and here are some moments when they had similar dialogue, and how they used a similar shot of Jon standing over Ramsay and Dany's bodies.

Some of that is from s8, so even though they didn't commit, they didn't drop the parallels. Such weird choices! I agree that it’s incomprehensible how much effort D&D put into creating a specific groundwork for what was to come and then lost track of what they were doing in the end. Someone suggested that HBO asked them to kinda, salvage Dany as much as possible for the sake of spinoffs, and because of that mismatch between their parallels and foreshadowing and how it was ultimately handled, I think there might be something to that theory.

Your ask also reminded me how annoyed I was that Tyrion was lying and covering for Dany and that no one got mad at him? In s7 he lured Jon into a trap by saying "let’s be allies!" when he knew that Dany wanted Jon to kneel. And of course, he kept vouching for her and insisting she wasn't what she was even after he saw with his own eyes that she certainly was.

[norringtondeservestheworld]

can't believe it's canon that in the last season Jaime was chilling with his brother then Brienne entered and Jaime jumped on his feet murmuring my lady like a Jane Austen's hero and Tyrion was like damn bro, someone is smitten, isn't it?

[daen7kat]

Married at 13

Viktoriya Novikova “Rusalochka” (1976) // A Game of Thrones - Daenerys I // Magali Villeneuve // A Game of Thrones - Daenerys II // Gary Gianni // Lalla Ward “The Prince and the Pauper” (1977) // A Storm of Swords - Sansa III // A Storm of Swords - Sansa III // Lily-Rose Depp “Nosferatu” (2024) // A Dance with Dragons - Reek II // Sam Hogg // A Dance with Dragons - The Prince of Winterfell // “The Unequal Marriage�� 1862 Vasili Pukirev (1832-1890)

[themoonofblueside]

on a second thought tyrion was absolutely in his lannister delusions when he thought sansa's enmity towards him were because he was ugly. although it's not disclosed explicitly, sansa is not afraid or disgusted by deformities anymore(thank you, sandor). sansa did not like tyrion because she was afraid he'd catch her plan, and he was a lannister. imp, hated and seen as a monster or not, he was always a lannister and she was always one of the captives of his house. tyrion was so in his head about being unwanted and unloved that he completely missed "oh i'm her captor" explanation

[catofoldstones]

Sansa Stark whenever the psycho bitch who killed her father or the next top contenders for Westeros’ most traumatised unaware pedophiles try to info dump & project their secrets/plans/opinions on her

[jeyneofpoole]

bad show eppysode simulator. cersei has three glasses of wine in her hand and orange hair. she is making out sloppy-style with a floor length gilded mirror but oh no! jaime is not there! where is jaime? he’s actually staring soulfully into brienne’s eyes as she delivers a heartfelt monologue about being ugly (she is gwendoline christie.) across the narrow sea missandei is curling dany’s hair with a revlon styling brush it’s very chic very medieval. jorah is jacking off in the corner they just sort of ignore him. in the north theon and sansa are running through the woods to escape evil gay iwan rheon and theon looks sooooo tortured (they dunked alfie allen in olive oil and dressed him in an ascot made out of dryer lint.) loras gets hatecrimed so hard that he blows up and is never mentioned again. in the background of some shots you can see peter dinklage tying a noose. at the very end kit harington turns to the camera and says well we sure had a game of thrones! and they they all stand in a line and kill themselves. easily television!

[rhaenin-time]

Maybe possibly controversial opinion but while Dany was definitely treated the worst in the adaptation, I don't think she was actually adapted the worst. Not in the earlier seasons at least.

I'm not saying she was adapted well even in those early seasons. Far from it. But she was adapted more accurately than Jon and Arya. Because they are honestly unrecognizable. I binged seasons 1-6 before reading the books and I honestly found them a little boring/cliched. And then I pick up the books and it's like, "What? These two are amazing!"

asfdghadghoi The line that originally turned me off: "Most girls are idiots." Arya would never.

[thewonderbug]

I can't believe we wasted an entire season on Alicent and Rhaenyra trying to accept that war was inevitable. The shame. The boredom.

[ladystoneboobs]

anyways, speaking of cannibalism, wrt frey pies in particular, it just hit me that the rat cook song is not just a way for wyman to slyly telegraph what he did w/o any of his in-world foes noticing, it could also be his justification just as much as inspiration. let's look back at how we learned of the legend through bran:

"It was not for murder that the gods cursed him," Old Nan said, "nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive." -Bran IV, aSoS

so, in other words: 1) violating guest right is the most heinous of crimes and 2) if guest right is not violated then murder and even cannibalizing the murdered to feed to their own kin is a-ok so long as the motive is personal revenge. by giving guest gifts to the 3 frey envoys to end any guest rite bond asap and get to the killings, wyman not only gets just a feeling of moral superiority by at least not committing the same type of crime as the enemies he killed, he also ensured that his vengeance could be divinely sanctioned as a natural right correctly exercised, unlike how the rat cook did his. he learned his lessons from this northern legend and improved upon the actions of this nightfort cook accordingly. thing is, the justified right to vengeance has to be just an old gods thing, not fitting in with the seven (which house manderly had converted to 1000s of years ago back in the reach) as the christainity stand-in, which is just evidence of the depth of manderly northern assimilation and/or that old dark ways never entirely disappear, no matter the religion. wyman manderly can still worship the "new" gods with just as much urge toward old-fashioned bloody revenge as any old gods worshipping northman, not so different from his vassal ser bartimus in the wolf's den who bragged to davos that his ancestors were likely among those who once hung slavers' entrails in a heart tree as a bloody offering to the old gods.

[esther-dot]

hello! i’ve followed for a while but never talked to you. thank you for being such a great jonsa and asoiaf source. i’ve been thinking lately about how sansa’s vale arc might proceed and was curious if you know of any theories about when/how her marriage to tyrion might end.

sansa needs to be unwed for littlefinger’s schemes to work. he seems to want sansa to believe he’s just waiting around for tyrion to die, but that doesn’t seem in character for him. it seems more likely he is actively trying to end her marriage behind the scenes.

do you think she’s likely to stay married to tyrion for much longer? or might her married/unmarried state end up as convoluted as the northern succession, maybe with a decree of annulment floating around somewhere like robb’s will?

Aw! Thank you so much for saying so! I really enjoyed your tags contributing to the Rhaegar & David parallels, and your post about his name.

I haven't been reading much meta this year, so I may have missed it, but I don't know that we've ever developed a specific theory about when Sansa's marriage to Tyrion would be handled! We've sometimes talked about a nice ol' widowing which is fun (but not what we'll get imo), @kellyvela found an exchange in which Martin said that someone doesn't have to go to the High Septon for an annulment but obviously will have to request it in their own name and it would reveal their location (link), so that means, it can't be safely done while Sansa’s pretending to be LF's daughter. She could do it once in Winterfell, and we've talked about the possibility of Tyrion trying to bring the North to Dany's side in DoD 2.0 via his marriage to Sansa, and if that is the route Martin wants to go, it would be pretty juicey, and really fuel Tyrion's rage if Sansa has already had their marriage annulled. That's a fun way to play it.

We've also talked about post a girl in grey trip to the North, considering loyalty to Ned and hatred for Lannisters, the North might just say fuck it, we don't recognize that forced marriage. Or, and I really do think this is possible for drama's sake, we have the two religions, and they might use that to defend not recognizing the marriage and, considering the byronic Jon quote, and how often bigamy pops up in gothic/victorian lit, I don't dismiss the idea that Sansa might marry someone before the old gods prior to an annulment being secured. That might mean, the annulment doesn't happen until close to the end of the story. I personally like the idea of a secret Jonsa wedding, but lot's of Jonsas expect it to be public after R+L=J to reconcile the Jon KitN turning out to be a Targ debacle. Either way, this would mean when Jon reunites with his friend Tyrion, they're both married to Sansa which is also a very sick twisted fun way to play it! (Stop throwing tomatoes, y'all know that would be funny!)

As for LF's current plans, I have no idea! He believed Cersei would end Tyrion, he'd then get rid of Cersei, and that at that point he could reveal who Sansa was:

"A marriage . . ." Her throat tightened. She did not want to wed again, not now, perhaps not ever. "I do not . . . I cannot marry. Father, I . . ." Alayne looked to the door, to make certain it was closed. "I am married," she whispered. "You know."

Petyr put a finger to her lips to silence her. "The dwarf wed Ned Stark's daughter, not mine. Be that as it may. This is only a betrothal. The marriage must needs wait until Cersei is done and Sansa's safely widowed. And you must meet the boy and win his approval. Lady Waynwood will not make him marry against his will, she was quite firm on that." (AFFC, Alayane II)

No man can wed me so long as my dwarf husband still lives somewhere in this world. Queen Cersei had collected the head of a dozen dwarfs, Petyr claimed, but none were Tyrion's. (TWOW, Alayne I)

The mention of the queen's name made her stiffen. "She's not kind. She scares me. If she should learn where I am—"

"—I might have to remove her from the game sooner than I'd planned. Provided she does not remove herself first." (AFFC, Alayne I)

Cersei had the motivation to go after Tyrion, so it made sense to me he thought she'd handle it, and then he'd handle her, but seeing as what he wants to do is reveal Sansa as herself, get the KotV to go North and reclaim Winterfell, I'm not sure what he is currently planning, now that he says his timetable is screwed? Unless he thinks the mayhem of KL, Cersei's current trouble there, Aegon and then Dany's arrival will allow him to get the annulment undiscovered? Cersei is at odds with the High Septon, so maybe he thinks he could get away with it? That doesn't make sense to me though, not with the way news flies. I guess the weather is something of a shield, but not enough. Maybe he planned to kill someone and try to pass them off as Tyrion? Marry Sansa to Harry quickly after and take her North where Cersei wouldn't be able to get her? The emphasis is on Tyrion being alive, not the annulment, but maybe that's a misdirect. I really can't say. If any of you have spec, let me know and I’ll reblog it!

[agentrouka-blog]

"There was hunger in his(Tyrion) green eye, it seemed to her, and fury in the black. Sansa did not know which scared her more."- Sansa(ASOS).

"He wanted something from her, but Sansa did not know what it was. He looks like a starving child, but I have no food to give him."- Sansa(ASOS).

Sansa compared Tyrion lust for her with him hungry for food.

"The Vale of Arryn was famously fertile and had gone untouched during the fighting. Jon wondered how Lady Catelyn's sister would feel about feeding Ned Stark's bastard." - Jon(ADWD)

"He have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. A hunger . . . he could feel it."- Jon(ASOS).

In first quote Jon was thinking about food supply from Vale and in later he was thinking about he wanted to become lord of WF and have a family but feels guilty.

Do you think it's about Jonsa?

Great obervation, please-dot! <3

There's another language parallel involving Tyrion and Sansa and Winterfell that mirrors Jon's thoughts in Winterfell.

I want her, he realized. I want Winterfell, yes, but I want her as well, child or woman or whatever she is. I want to comfort her. I want to hear her laugh. I want her to come to me willingly, to bring me her joys and her sorrows and her lust. His mouth twisted in a bitter smile. Yes, and I want to be tall as Jaime and as strong as Ser Gregor the Mountain too, for all the bloody good it does. (ASOS, Tyrion IV)

It compares well with the quote you used above.

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. A hunger . . . he could feel it. It was food he needed, prey, a red deer that stank of fear or a great elk proud and defiant. He needed to kill and fill his belly with fresh meat and hot dark blood. His mouth began to water with the thought. (ASOS, Jon XII)

When Tyrion and Sansa do eat together, the food is distasteful, or their appetites incompatible.

Another thematic link would be Sansa refusing the offer of a pomegranate from Littlefinger, where the Hades-Persephone symbolism underlines her rejection of him. The closest he gets to her appetite is the giant lemon cake model of the Eyrie served up at the feast for the upcoming tourney, and yet her thoughts revolve around Harry and she is never seen eating of it.

Jon's relationship with food also turns impersonal. What meals he has aren't joyful, they even congeal uneaten. Long forgotten are the days of sweet summerwine and honeyed chicken, or the celebratory meals taken with his new black brothers. Everything revolves around food but Jon becomes divorced from the joy of eating.

Catelyn voices that connection very well.

I am become a sour woman, Catelyn thought. I take no joy in mead nor meat, and song and laughter have become suspicious strangers to me. I am a creature of grief and dust and bitter longings. There is an empty place within me where my heart was once. (ACOK, Catelyn VII)

The connection to the food stores of the Eyrie becomes doubly interesting in that context. GRRM specifically phrased it as feeding Jon himself.

I strongly suspect that when Jon and Sansa meet again, food will take on as symbolic a role as gifts of clothing or mutual offers of protection. There's a very unnecessary, almost random paragraph during Joffrey's wedding that has never left my mind:

And there was one woman, sitting almost at the foot of the third table on the left . . . the wife of one of the Fossoways, he thought, and heavy with his child. Her delicate beauty was in no way diminished by her belly, nor was her pleasure in the food and frolics. Tyrion watched as her husband fed her morsels off his plate. They drank from the same cup, and would kiss often and unpredictably. Whenever they did, his hand would gently rest upon her stomach, a tender and protective gesture. (ASOS, Tyrion VIII)

It's one of the sweetest interactions of any couple depicted in the series, and it revolves around the simple worldly pleasures of food and drink, affection and new life. They eat together, joyfully. The contrast to Tyrion's empty hunger, and to the stilted tension surrounding food that has crept into so many abusive relationships is evident.

So, yes, I think that repeated imagery is very intentional and will return when it is time to feast, metaphorically.

[kataraavatara]

“Feyre reached out so much she invited nesta to live with her after the war 🥺🥺🥺” in the house with feyre’s mate who’s made his hatred of nesta no secret and constantly harasses her? the house filled with paintings of everyone but nesta? imagine seeing that visual reminder of how little your sister cares for you every. day. DAMN. as an act of reaching out/reconciliation it sucks because it wasn’t one. we need to recognize and respect that as the absolutely sick psychological warfare it was. feyre archeron i tip my hat to you because that was insane.

[thewokedragon]

Sometimes I remember the reason I got attached to game of thrones was because it was a story about outcasts the ones who didn’t fit into society, the exile, the bastard, the dwarf, the girl and the queen who wanted to be born male, the broken boy, the boy who was a brother but also a hostage… only for it all to end with the “others” as the bad guys and conformity to win

[silverflameataraxia]

Imagine thinking the sibling that you were closest to is dead and then finding out they're alive...and betrothed to those who betrayed and murdered your family.

Jon saw no reason not to tell him. "Moat Cailin is taken. The flayed corpses of the ironmen have been nailed to posts along the kingsroad. Roose Bolton summons all leal lords to Barrowton, to affirm their loyalty to the Iron Throne and celebrate his son's wedding to..." His heart seemed to stop for a moment. No, that is not possible. She died in King's Landing, with Father. "He's to marry Arya Stark. My little sister." Jon could almost see her in that moment, long-faced and gawky, all knobby knees and sharp elbows, with her dirty face and tangled hair. They would wash the one and comb the other, he did not doubt, but he could not imagine Arya in a wedding gown, nor Ramsay Bolton's bed. No matter how afraid she is, she will not show it. If he tries to lay a hand on her, she'll fight him. By now she'd be eleven, Jon thought. Still a child. "I have no sister. Only brothers. Only you." Lady Catelyn would have rejoiced to hear those words, he knew. That did not make them easier to say. His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton's throat as easily. Jon felt as stiff as a man of sixty years. Dark dreams, he thought, and guilt. His thoughts kept returning to Arya. There is no way I can help her. I put all kin aside when I said my words. If one of my men told me his sister was in peril, I would tell him that was no concern of his. Once a man had said the words his blood was black. Black as a bastard's heart. He'd had Mikken make a sword for Arya once, a bravo's blade, made small to fit her hand. Needle. He wondered if she still had it. Stick them with the pointy end, he'd told her, but if she tried to stick the Bastard, it could mean her life. "The heart is all that matters. Do not despair, Lord Snow. Despair is a weapon of the enemy, whose name may not be spoken. Your sister is not lost to you." "I have no sister." The words were knives. What do you know of my heart, priestess? What do you know of my sister?

- Jon VI, ADwD

Interesting that Sansa's marriage to Tyrion wasn't even worthy of being mentioned to Jon (even though we know he knew about it, he's never once cared enough to voice any thought on the subject), but Arya's betrothal to Ramsay takes up Jon's entire sixth POV in ADwD 🤣

[atopvisenyashill]

Worst things GOT did casting wise:

- making Dany too beautiful (+ styling her in a way that she never has a hair out of place, always wears BLUE - which makes her look peaceful and soft and angelic, not making her burn her hair off etc). I just think of that one official art piece that's in the illustrated AGOT book where dany is bald, with the dragons and sparks and frames around her and its so striking instead of the "beautiful angelic blonde women stand empowered with her tits out" scene we got

- casting Iain Glen as Jorah and not like. a random Lannister (like. Come on. He is a burly and ugly man... why are you casting one of the most beautiful men to play him.... this is how we ended up with dany/jorah shippers)

-making Joffrey too unattractive (this is not meant to disparage JG who is a great actor and seems like a really cool dude and i'm not saying he's ugly but I think from his very first scene Joffrey looks very punchable and it would have been so much smarter to make the audience .. relate to Sansa's infatuation with his golden looks. In my head (and in all the official art) Joffrey looks like a male version of cersei/a younger version of Jaime.)

- making Dany, Jon, Robb, Marg, Brienne etc 10+ years older than Sansa and the younger starklings .... It's not "the main characters and arya (who is so cool and can kill people) + the little children" it's ONE AGE group of equally important characters

Like I know people are upset at Ned/Jon etc being too attractive, WHICH I GET, but I feel like those were very vibe based casting decisions and i'm ultimately fine with that (I also think it's easier for the audience to root for someone if they're attractive so like. I guess they had to do it) but these other things resulated in people's perception of the characters being so wildly different from what they're supposed to be. The real reason people get so angry whenever someone says they wish tamzin had stayed is because they don't like the idea of daenerys not being this ethereal beauty (TM is beautiful but not in a conventional way) that they can fully root for without issue.

1. NO YOU ARE SOOOOOO RIGHT ABOUT THEM REFUSING TO LET DANY LOOK UGLY. it’s not to say tamzin isn’t clearly beautiful, but i think she’s beautiful in the same way gwendoline christie is, which is that she’s very striking and she has a strong presence but she’s not exactly what people picture when they say “typical hot lady” (which is Crazy these are all able bodied white women, like the definition of “beauty” is soooooo fuckijg narrow that tamzin merchant is ~atypically beautiful) vs emilia definitely is, and YES like everything from not burning her hair off to emilia being,,,,,fuller in figure than dany as a fourteen year old would be is just very clear that they saw dany different than the way she is On The Page. i mean i know people whack george for saying that she’s like a sexy funny lady or whatever but george never lets go of the fact that she’s incredibly young whereas d&d completely miss that part of her character.

i will say i Get the criticism of tamzin perhaps not picking up on the conlangs easily because one thing you can say for emilia is that she had a decent head for the conlangs, she’s even still partially fluent in dothraki lmaooo. but all the other stuff they said about why they recast dany it’s like. hmmmmmmmmmm.

2. absolutely right about iain especially because he’s similar to idk paddy in that he’s got CHARISMA but unlike viserys, they didn’t intent to portray him as a deeply flawed, antagonistic character they went in portraying him as like an objectively Good Guy dedicated to dany. he’s just so much less creepy and pushy in the show and has several scenes where he shows some moral backbone - that “yet here you stand” “yet here i stand” scene is sooooooo good for example, the fact that he actually apologizes for spying on dany, giving him the greyscale story & not having him fuck a valyrian looking woman in a brothel 💀, etc etc - and you also just lose some of the creepiness here because emilia is clearly a grown if young woman and ian is handsome, so it’s like. welll of Course you want to root for them to be together! and never mind that this is a Massive departure from their book characterizations!! again, they have this idea of jorah in their head that doesn’t match up with what’s on the page even a little.

3. i do get your point re: joffrey and i think this is my problem with aidan as littlefucker too - they’re too obviously villains and it makes ned and sansa look stupid. like, in the books we have that moment where robb almost decks joffrey which does seem to signal something bad but the crown prince being full of himself doesn’t mean he’s going to threaten his betrothed’s sister with a sword then get his ass handed to him by a toddler. in the show we get QUITE a number of scenes where joffrey is shown to be a brat AND as you say, just like aidan, jack has a Certain Look, he looks like a shitty jock who has allegations against him ajsjdj like irl when jack smiles he’s so adorable!! but in the show they REALLY play up his ability to channel a greasy aura ya know aksjd. when the point of asoiaf is often that villains don’t LOOK like villains, but some of our Main Villains clearly resemble typical villains in the show.

4. “it’s ONE age group of characters” NO YOU ARE SO RIGHT. like, there’s several years difference from robert to ned to cat to the twins to tyrion but they’re all the same generation of characters. there’s that exact same age difference from brienne to robb, dany, jon to sansa, arya, bran, with theon kind of similar to characters like jorah, who are old enough to remember The Before Times but aren’t quite in either generation. but because they wanted dany, brienne, jon, robb, and margaery to be more of a Typical archetype rather than an exploration of that archetype, they aged everyone up and essentially invented another generation between the “adult” characters and the “kid” characters. not to be super nerdy here but one of my favorite worked shoots in wrestling is one cody rhodes did where he was ranting about the way young wrestlers get put through the grinder and he has this amazing line where he sums it up as “old men talking, young men dying” and it’s not to say there aren’t a lot of old dudes Also dying lmao but you really see this where young leaders are often unprepared for their responsibilities and used as puppets by older men and you just MISS THAT when that whole generation is so grown!

it’s like they looked at those themes of war being terrible and all consuming and brutal no matter how justified you feel you are and went “wow war is brutal 😍” LIKE PLEASE????