#and i can't really find any similar opinions so far online | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

lemonhemlock · 8 days ago

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bg3 anon!

i would have replied sooner but... well, you know. i didn't want to be on any sites at all, truthfully, so i've basically only been playing a bit and looking at build videos, some limited stuff on the bg3 subreddit, that sort of thing. i'm just... so tired.

anyway. i'm currently out of the underdark and investigating rosymourn monastery. i did all the underdark quests (i think) but did not take the elevator to Moonrise Towers because i wanted to explore as much as i could.

" Yeah like with all due respect because I don't want to sound offensive or god forbid try to diagnose people I don't know in real life, but many Astarion fans (plus a few others in the fandom) need to seek out a good therapist. It's clear many use this character as an emotional crutch to cope with the problems and traumas they have which in theory should be fine but after interacting with them it's obvious they are not doing so in a healthy manner.

It's understandable to identify with a fictional character and it's normal to use fiction as escapism but they take it so, so far that they just can't differentiate the actual canon between what they projected onto him anymore. Some unfortunately also have the habit to (un)intentionally trauma dump onto everyone else and constantly use phrases like "As a survivor…" likely to guilt you in order to sell their own interpretation of the text as the only valid one. After all, if a survivor tells you something it means it must be true and moreover, it's shitty of you to contradict them, you know? If you try to politely argue against them, they lose their marbles and hit back with "just say you hate survivors". It doesn't even matter if you are also a survivor who may or may have not decided to come out as in a fandom space (why would we though, many of us are private persons).

I had witnessed similar behavior in the HOTD fandom where antis were employing similar tactics when trying to harass people for shipping incest, claiming they are were a danger to real survivors like themselves without knowing that many of those who were targeted by their horrible behavior were also survivors who simply chose to interact with problematic media because it's a safe environment that allows you to control the outcome. Not everyone is the same nor are survivors a monolith, in the end it's on your own responsibility to curate your fandom experience.

So, so true. The weaponisation of trauma survival as a means to lord over people in fandom spaces is such a creeping blight in online discourses and serves no one. It alienates fans and traps the perpetrators in an echo chamber from which they themselves might have trouble healing. And this whole nonsense is not even about enjoying the Ascendant storyline or writing fic about it (anyone can do that and entertain themselves or find a form of catharsis), simply about insisting on it being the good and non-abusive ending. The bar is in hell!

The self-insert nature of the game doesn't help either, you can tell most of them self-insert into their Tavs. This isn't a problem in itself, but when you express a negative opinion about some of the things you can do it in the game, they will take it as a personal attack because that's what they would've chosen to do had the situation been a real scenario (hope this makes sense!). I know this sounds crazy and again it's more of a personal opinion, but I think it explains a lot of their behavior.

I get what you mean and I do think there is a strong urge at play here to "justify" oneself and one's choices. Similar to how, in the HotD fandom, we had so many people siding with Rhaenyra automatically because she is a woman and of course women should get to rule and are not wrong ever.

But, in truth, I actually wager that some of them would truly, really NOT make the same choices if this were actual real life somehow, they're just blending fiction with reality in an unhealthy way. Like, if a fey creature showed up and asked to drink their blood, pretty please, they would most likely say no, like any normal person in that situation. Because the threat would then be immediate and not diminished by the safety blanket of fiction. "Realistically"-speaking, this is a strange man you don't know, who threatened you with a dagger at your neck just a few days ago, who's not even particularly nice to you and is rather obviously out for himself. No, I don't really believe even the wives would be so eager to indulge him if this were a real scenario. So, it's all the more embarrassing to be stirring shit up and making discourse out of nothing.

And, you know, it's FINE if you want daddy dom Astarion to ravish your delicate flower self and what-not, but there's really no need to find ethical worth in a horny fantasy, nor is that something achievable! Nor does it have to reflect back to one's moral character. There's no shame in finding the handsome vampire hot! Just have fun with it.

But these wives are forgetting that, just because someone is charming and dandified, it doesn't translate into sound judgment or moral worth, not in real life and not even in fiction. He can be very charismatic and still unable to make the best choices for himself.

Also, while there isn't a definite canon in BG3 since it's an RPG game and your playthrough is your playthrough and what someone else chooses to do in theirs doesn't mean it's something that applies to yours, when analyzing Astarion (or anyone else) as a character you have to take all dialogue options into consideration to reach an informed, valid conclusion. You shouldn't cherry pick the dialogue option(s) that's more likely to validate your preferred interpretation, that's now how it works. The AA situation is a good example of it: it's true that by choosing the loving options where you don't cross him, you can perhaps say he is loving partner but it's also true he will be awful and show his true colors if you go against him. Likewise, just because you do not choose to break up with him, it doesn't make his refusal to let you go away after the tadpoles are gone ("your future is mine to decide") is any less valid. In conclusion, yes, he does become abusive if he ascends. Constantly stepping on eggshells around your partner and only saying what he wants to hear from you is a sign of the relationship turning abusive, if it hasn't already.

Yeah, this is so true and I've had one of these lines already. The first time in the goblin camp I refused to give him a tadpole and he went all feral cat on me (and this was after he came onto me!! the knave!!). But when I did my second playthrough, I thought I'd make Mirta a little bit of an avatar for the Beholding / Eye (since I already gave you The Magnus Archives podcast link, it's one of the fear entities the show is about. this one in particular deals with things like scopophobia, the absolute terror of being known, of being judged or the pure experience of fear or of the unknown). So, she'd be a little like "oh, so you insist on being an absolute idiot? Might as well get a little entertainment out of this" and hand him just enough rope to hang himself with (you know, the kind of morbid curiosity that lends itself to terrible things sometimes). And so, I told him he could have the tadpole and he was all polite smiles and smug demeanor. Pompous prick!!! 🙌

It does seem to me that this part of the game is kind of broken, or at least not integrated enough, because 1. I don't think it's fair that you can ingest even a couple of extra tadpoles with no consequences (this is my understanding at least) and 2. I didn't get any approval or disapproval points from him. He just said that he'll pop one out of my backpack later. Now, I know he's not going to rummage through my stuff and steal it, like, I actually have to make him take one mechanically if I want his Illithid menu activated, so it was purely for show. But it feels rather empty, still.

Anyway, this is also just a game at the end of the day and its complexity is limited in that it can mimic real life, but not truly represent its quagmires, because character development is not linear for living, breathing people. So, I definitely agree that AA harping at Tav and biting back whenever he encounters the slightest resistance is meant to be a Red Flag, but irl sometimes, when you navigate a difficult situation with the "right" conversation, it allows the person to calm down and even grow from that experience. Like, they can later reflect on their bad behaviour and how wrong they would have been to lash out if they didn't hear what they wanted in that moment. But this is obviously something that doesn't really translate that well to becoming an immortal vampire lord with superpowers or whatever - like, by that point, they're too far gone to be able to interrogate their wrongs. But it could, perhaps, apply to Act 1 stuff when everything is still very raw from their trauma and still indulging in unhealthy coping mechanisms.

I want to add something rather surprising I've noticed about some wives. There are a few of them in the fandom who even claim to have degrees in literature (one is even teaching English literature at a university) and complain constantly about the state of media literacy in the fandom, the puritan culture that's been sweeping up fandoms lately…yet when you see their take on Astarion, ugh, they are the types who genuinely believe the ascension is his good path and that he 100% turned Tav into a vampire bride. Like how??? I won't elaborate further but yeah…I'll just add that your average gamerbro who likely hasn't read more than two books in his entire life never had such issues in getting the actual message of Astarion's story. They may not like his character (quite the opposite) or paid any particular attention to him and his romance, but at least they immediately understood ascension isn't his good path.

Yeah, when your garden-variety basement-dweller gamebro has a better understanding of the basic "good v evil" divide in a piece of media, it's time to rethink the tuition fees you paid for that literature diploma. :))

Ridiculous to think because, even IF Ascended Astarion was the consummate gentleman and the most loving waifu on the face of the earth, how is it helping anyone to bring another vampire into existence? By definition, vampires prey on other living creatures, it's parasitic and hurtful and frightening. They bring misery and problems into any community. Why would you even want to become one? And, again, even if it's like a fantasy kink or something, it would be detrimental to everyone else living nearby! We used to live in a society! It's just so harmful to your fellow man!

All of them have some baggage but he's certainly the one with most of it. It gets worse when you realize that's all he has ever known considering he can't remember his life as a mortal/elf (he "died" at 39 years old), having lost most of his memories because of the amount of torture and trauma (although in D&D lore vampirism itself could be another cause behind the memory loss). He can't even remember his face or the color of his eyes. When you confirm/ commit to the relationship with him in act 2, if you decide to friendzone him he'll tell you he's happy to have a friend because he can't remember ever having one. :( Being with Tav is really his both his first actual friendship and/or romantic relationship if going forward that route. I'm sure he had friends and lovers when he was alive, but it's irrelevant since all those memories are lost.

Yeah, this is what I mean, he's really had an awful turn. Two centuries of that! It's admirable he still has his wits about him and can function. But he needs A LOT of therapy (or the Faerun equivalent). He told me about not even remembering the colour of his eyes or what he even looks like anymore. Which ties a lot into the loss of personhood. If you don't know anything about yourself, what kind of life is that? What would he even like to do in a normal life, if given the chance? The only thing he knows is that he wants the pain and degradation to stop. Or to know that no one in your former life cared enough to try to help Elves, for example, live a very long time, even in DnD and he "died" very young for an elf, so his parents must still be alive. Where are they? Do they even care that their son is condemned to eternal torment? (I know they're probably absent because the writers wanted him with no attachments for story reasons, but, still, if you want to RPG properly, it must suck to think about it).

Which by the way, some Astarion fans hate it when you say that perhaps he needs a friend rather than a lover. It's okay not to vibe with his romance anymore guys!! But they've treated some people so awfully when they dared to say they prefer this option, as if everyone's opinion was in bad faith (the "you are just infantilizing survivors" type)…they should realize not everyone wishes to roleplay a character who got themselves into a situation where someone only started to have sex under false pretenses (he wanted protection so you wouldn't throw him away like you correctly pointed out), nor should they feel guilty into going forward with the relationship just because Astarion will feel bad about it. He's also happy if you remain friends! Just because he is now in a relationship with Tav, this doesn't mean all his issues will disappear, nor will they go away once Cazador is dead. You don't heal in an instant from centuries of constant abuse, torture, mind control and sexual trafficking. Also, just because he doesn't ascend and remains a spawn doesn't mean his relationship with Tav is actually 100% healthy and without issues, at least not from a modern POV or perspective.

Absolutely, not everyone wants or knows how to offer that kind of help to a romantic partner, and feeling way more comfortable to do that for a friend is understandable. It's OK to also have romance goals for your Tav, everything doesn't have to revolve around Astarion. :)) He is obviously very confused about the whole issue himself.

And, fuck buddies or not, it does sting to think that he only slept with you because he wanted your favour, because he goes out of his way to make it seem like he's over the moon about you and finding out he really doesn't rate you is unpleasant. Because it was never presented like the exchange he sees it as; not that Astarion presents it as true love or anything either, but he insists on it hinging on Tav's allure or attractiveness. And that's a delicate topic for people - no one wants to think that having sex with them is a chore.

No one's love life is something that they must sacrifice in order to "help someone out", like, that's not how it works. Your body is your body, not an instrument to cure someone's mental illness. I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way, but it's fucked up to expect that from people. Like, this person is just pretending to want to have sex with me and I'm supposed to not feel any kind of way about it? :))

Also, this is anoter fairly sensitive topic and I would not like to overstep, but I would urge anyone who is identifying with Astarion because of various disabilities or mental health issues and may feel further isolated or hurt by seeing people uncomfortable with romancing him and appeasing him to please not conflate their condition with vampirism. I think these comparisons can work to some extent, but only up to a point. I get the dependency aspect and needing a strong support system in order to manage their affliction - those are reasonable similarities that can help people identify with his character.

But vampires literally suck their victims' blood - it's not reasonable to expect the people within a settlement to be willing to offer their bodies up to feed the resident village vampire. Media often sensationalises this topic (and it's hard not to, since it doesn't exist IRL and there's really no way to tell how it could be managed by real-life people), but it doesn't take a genius to understand that it could very well be a frightening and painful experience for any such blood donor. It's often portrayed in fiction as this quasi-erotic, pleasant experience, but, as we all know, sexual acts especially can quickly turn extremely uncomfortable and traumatic in the absence of consent. Even if the person involved would theoretically consent, for the good of their community, they may very well not desire it at all and it could leave them feeling violated regardless.

This is why it's crazy for me to hear that some wives will accuse you of being 'ableist' if you'd want to find a cure for Astarion's vampirism and that you should just 'accept' him the way he is. Those two things are not the same at all! Let alone any kind of situation which leads to bringing more vampires into the world.

"Gale is most definitely NOT approaching godhood in any capacity. I could not STAND this mediocre white man overpowering ME! I am, though, debating on whether I should let Volo perform brain surgery on him. Mayhaps I will!" I think Volo's eye gives you the "See Invisibility" ability? It's useful but later own you'll find plenty of scrolls and potions of that kind. But if you want to sacrifice Gale's real eye just for the sake of it, then go for it!

Gods above, I did it for the morbid curiosity and it was just awful. Not even Gale deserves that, so I reloaded. I figured that it would be absolute blasphemy for the Beholding to take out one's eyes, so Mirta would not be on board with this. I booted Volo from my camp after I got out of the Underdark, because I wanted to at least give that fumbling idiot a living chance at least. For RPG reasons (I know he leaves anyway after the "surgery" wherever you set camp).

And, anyway.... *drumroll*... I respecc'd to lvl 4 wizard and lvl 2 bard and now I have fairy fire, which allows me to see invisibility anway so I don't need Volo's Trojan horses. Being a bard is so fun, you were so right about this, I can now play the flute(!) and have bardic inspiration as a bonus action. I also got annoyed at how much damage I'd get during fighting and switched Mirta's class to Abjuration - now she gets a cool spherical shield around her when she's hit and it's so much better!

Don't be so sure about Gale not approaching godhood! With Gale, the choice on whether or not he will become a god depends on certain dialogue options you will choose and 3. Unlike Astarion who can be convinced with a persuasion check, with Gale there's a point system behind his decision so the more options you check that lean in one direction, then that will be the result. Quite a few players actually thought they picked the right dialogue choices that would result in him not ascending to godhood but they still woke up with God!Gale in the end. We call it Sneaky God Gale lol. I won't spoil you too much, but you kind of have to push really, really hard against his stupid ideas even if he gets mad and gives disapproval.

He gets more infuriating the more I learn about him! I watched some romance scenes with him from Act 1, out of curiosity, and, gods above, he is SO smarmy. I could never. 😂

"Even if it were manipulation, I’d still do it for his own good. Dumbass needs all the help he can get. " See, if you were to post this opinion in pro AA space, the consorts would've canceled you. How dare you say you know better than him? He says he wants to ascend, do you not get that?

Here's to being his no 1 bully, first and foremost 💪

I know, right? I see where they are trying to come from when saying that it's beautiful to accept him just as he is, drawbacks included (the vampirism) but accusing people of ableism is just not it. Also, the idea of curing him and getting to live the remainder of his life in human years…I LOVE THIS. I don't think I've ever seen this headcanon from anyone!! Anyway, posting it in an Astarion fandom space will likely get you some angry fans who will say it's toxic and abusive lol.

Yeah!!! I'll give him the best human years of his loser ass life! Wizards live longer anyhow (from what I understand), so there's more than enough time for marital bliss. 🤡

"I’m also thinking I’m ready to change the difficulty to medium now (I heard I can do this mid-game). The goblin battles weren’t really challenging on easy and I am intrigued by multiclassing, which I can not do on easy. Dror, for example, was SO easy to kill, I just put Lae'zel and Karlach nearby and they made quick work out of him, he was gone by the third turn max. Elixir of Bloodlust on Karlach is insane." I think it's worth it. The game isn't hard at all on medium once you learn the basics and the multiclassing is worth it. If you want to get into that, I suggest multiclassing Astarion into Rogue/Ranger. For Rogue, I would suggest getting 4 levels in the Thief subclass because you get an extra bonus action for choosing it. The Assassin subclass is also good, but just avoid the Arcane Trickster one. Put all the rest of the levels into Ranger, specifically the Gloomstalker subclass. As for feats the most important ones for him would be +2 DEX and Sharpshooter. You can look into this build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBREg0F0TCc - I suggest checking out his other ones as well if you need some help with other companions. You don't need to follow his exact stepts but his builds are a good starting point.

Oh, yeah, I had watched videos like that and thought it was a good idea so my Astarion is currently a lvl 3 rogue and a lvl 3 ranger. I also got a mod that gives you a feat every 2 levels, so I'm not worried about battles anymore. I'm not really one to use potions too much and I'm not going to activate the tadpole powers, so it's whatever, I'm not some overpowered demigod either way. I mostly just want to have fun during battles. So I was able to spare an Alert feat for Mirta and now she & Astarion go first almost every fight - who's a cute wittle power couple?? 🎃

" Also, there is a barn in the Blighted Village where an ogre and a bugbear are having sex. If you go there BEFORE entering the goblin camp and let Astarion interrupt them*, you get 5 bloody approval points in one go. Crazy. After that, he made his advances towards Mirta and then the sex scene triggered when I hit long rest.

*you will have to separate yourself form the rest of your party and just knock with him at the door" I thought you did that already!! Did he not ask you to let him open the door? Because when I played and romanced him he asked my Tav when she was about to open the door "please, let me do it!" . Perhaps they patched it out and now you have to do it separately with only him.

No, I had missed this! This particular barn is somehow a little off from the rest of the houses and I went past it completely. That's one of the reasons I reloaded - so many easy approval points, it was a shame to waste. Also, it was pretty funny.

"If nothing else, Halsin will be nice to have for some added flavour and the ability to play with a druid. Minthara, too, because she is a paladin and I have none in my party. Pity you can’t make Volo a companion!" Sadly, even in this regard he's not unique as you will be able to recruit ANOTHER druid in act 2 at about the same time when you can officially get him to join the party: Jaheira. She was one of the companions in BG1 and BG3 and far more interesting than Halsin. There will also be Minsc who is a ranger in act 3, another former character in the previous games. She and Minsc are good friends and they have some good content in act 3.

Unless they fixed some of this in patch 7, he is also very bugged and many of his dialogues are flagged as "flirting" despite them being innocent. At the tiefling party when talking to him you can pick any non-flirty dialogue option you want to and it won't matter. The next morning, if you talk to him again at camp you will have the option to apologize for coming so hard onto him at the party the evening before. Lmao, like when did I do that??? Later, if you later ask him how he fares at your camp he will say something about books, to which you can answer with "you'll find plenty of books, I come across them everywhere"…yeah, that's considered flirting and so is the other option if I recall correctly. And this can go on and on all the way throughout the game…In my case (and it happened to lots of other players, there are tones of complaints about it on the internet) when he finally confessed his love and I rejected him he hit back with "I thought you felt the same way, are you sure???" & "you saw to my needs at camp with the care of a lover, not a host" oh my god just go away dude because I did NOT treat you like a lover lmfao. In this instance he reminded me of those type of guys who think that just because you were nice one time, you must be attracted to them and down to fuck if given the opportunity, but when rejected they complain you were the one who led them on in the first place lmao.

In patch 6 they supposedly introduced a friendship/platonic path for him due to all the complaints but for most players it barely works considering how easy it is to accidentally flirt with him lol…very few people have managed to avoid all of this apparently by not talking to him AT ALL except the quest he gives you in act 2 and by avoiding all the dialogue options that give you a lot of approval.

Gale had similar problems at launch where he took ANY interaction with the player character as flirting, which eventually led him to confessing his love to you unprompted. It was hilarious. Fortunately they fixed it quite rapidly in the next patch which begs the question, why are they not doing it with Halsin...unless he's intentionally coded like this.

Now back to serious matters…Halsin can have a purpose in act 3. Without spoiling too much, there will be a kidnapping plot and he is one of the characters that can get kidnapped (don't worry, you'll be able to easily save anyone once you find the location). The other kidnappable companions are Gale, Lae'zel and Minthara, plus a NPC kid who will potentially join your camp. Also, no romanced companion will be taken. You can metagame your way into getting whoever you want kidnapped by leaving at camp the character you want to get rid of while having the rest in your active party. The thing is that Gale and Lae'zel have major quests in act 3 so you'd best want to keep them in your party if you don't want to fuck the result to those quests, Minthara has a past with the character who does the kidnapping (it's her former abuser) so you'd want her in your party when you go to confront them. As for the NPC…if the kid gets kidnapped, her cat will get killed no matter what you do. And that is unacceptable because no innocent animal is going to be harmed. Which leaves us with Halsin. Considering he really has nothing going on in act 3, he's the best candidate for this. Currently most fans have him kidnapped just to send him to horny jail. Many even kill him then, but I chose not to do it because if he stays alive he will take care of and raise some orphans and I don't want to take that away from them. It's a cute ending for him.

It's a pity because his character is okay if you ignore all of the issues and the fan service around him. Sadly, all Halsin does these days is ending up being a subject for discourse every two weeks or so…he also has a few annoying fans who will try to gaslight you that none of this is happening and it's your fault if you flirt with him (as if it's so easily avoidable) so…that's that.

I'm beginning to see what you mean about Halsin. I've had him in my camp for a while now and he does nothing, just stands there like a weirdo. He doesn't even have his own tent (neither do I, and I'm still salty about it). Doesn't interact with any other companions. And I can't even play with him! It really does feel like he was added as an extra thought.

I got the same experience in talking to him re: flirting. I spoke normally with him at the party because I wanted to lock my second night of passion (😂) with Astarion and the next day I had the option to act all embarrassed for flirting with him. Crazy. Now he's giving me moon eyes. :)) I don't really mind it that much since I do like him, he has a kind of rugged charm, but he's definitely not integrated in the best way in the game mechanics.

"I am so looking forward to hear her dunking on Gale." Minthara also has some nasty banters with Astarion. She says he would make a good pleasure servant in Menzoberranzan which is icky given his past lol. In another party banter she jokes about him probably having some STDs due to his decades of philandering. She is really vicious.

He'd better not have anything though!! :O Just kidding, I doubt vampires can contract and get sick from diseases.

I am so curious to see them together, since Minthussy is bound to be a dommy mommy who'd eat Astarion alive for breakfast. She should be scaring the living daylights out of him, given her background as a former Lolth-sworn drow. I learnt that they really don't treat men nicely down there. :))

In relation to this, I wish there was some options to explore the character of True Soul Nere more, since he abandoned Lolth for the Absolute and comes from a society in which he'd be a second class citizen. At one point, in one of his racist remarks, Astarion even says "I understand saving a drow, but gnomes?" And I was itching to reply something like "really? A male drow? Shouldn't they be considered weak underlings judging by your standards?" or even instill some fear of God into him, since he is also a male elf. 🫵

"Frustratingly enough, Lae'zel and Karlach have me at the lowest approval ratings in the party :)) 31 and 29, respectively. But we’ll do the creche next, so I’m hoping they’ll grow." Once you get to the Creche with Lae'zel to advance her personal quest you will gain A LOT of approval. Don't worry. But yeah Karlach was a bit hard for me, not gonna lie!

"Yes!!! Thank you!!! And, in any case, I think you can fight Raphael even if you didn’t take his deal, so I’m not missing out on anything. I think Mystra is equally lame for cavorting with (and discarding) a human like that, but groomer? Let’s bffr." You will eventually fight Raphael depending on your choices, don't worry…but you may want to deal with him in act 2 in order to help a certain pale companion, just saying! Make sure you have Astarion in your party when you reach the Last Light Inn. If you're now romancing him I guess you have him all the time, I assume?

You know, I was ready to switch him out regardless and leave his ass at home to fulfill the rotation, but he is really fun to have around, so I haven't had the heart to leave him in camp (*he was a punk, she did ballet, what more can I say* 🤡)

"Gale is NOT autistic coded, what the hell? If anything, he is privileged rich kid coded. " Fans will try to woobify their favorite characters, what's new. And yes I think Gale is indeed rich? Not filthy rich but well enough for sure.

I think I'm starting to see why they are rushing to his defense with this diagnostic - he has a tendency to ramble didactically on any given topic without stopping and I guess that COULD be interpreted as having a hyperfixation or a special interest? But Gale does possess good manners, because he can access them on a whim, apologises and stops. IDK, there's this tendency to pathologize any normal behaviour and turn it into something resembling neurodivergency that I don't think is necessary sometimes. People can just be arseholes! FFS, Gale introduces himself as Mystra's fuccboi and he will not let you forget how special and talented he is to have slept with her. Who does that??

"I did get Harold and managed to trade with the merchant. I tried to make the painter make a portrait of Astarion, as I figured it would be a nice gift for him to be able to see himself, but I could only free him. (Of course, Astarion disapproved both that and me giving him money for the road)." NO WAY YOU GAVE HIM MONEY! I REFUSE!!! I'm sorry but had you refused to do it, he would've told you he actually intended to spend the money on getting drunk. Lmaoooo. Sorry!

!!!! I thought he was going to die on the road if I didn't give him money?? 😭 You can't trust no man!!! ☠️

You will meet him again in the city though! If you successfully complete his future quest he can make you a portrait. But no companion will react to it. As for Astarion, yeah it's a missed opportunity that we can't show him what he looks like. However, Ascended Astarion will be able to see himself in the mirror and react accordingly…fuck him anyway.

Whelp....not on my watch! Not before we give him an anti-vampire vaccine like in the movie Blade. 😂

"I think I completely forgot about the shipment though! That cave is so big and I kind of lost myself picking up everything from the ground, so I don’t really know where it is? Or if I can go back? Was it where Zarys was standing?" You can loot it from Zarys' corpse if you gave it to her.

"Phew! I even had Lae'zel come onto me unprompted at the goblin camp. With 30-ish level approval!! She’s crazy lol. She gave me the “I want to taste you” line. Before that, she asked Astarion at the waypoint why he hadn’t attempted sleeping with her. After he slept with Mirta!! Lae'zel!!! " She came onto me after I killed the owlbear mother in the cave. I never got that banter with Astarion though…a lot of the party banters were bugged before patch 7. :(

Fun fact, if you aren't dating either Lae'zel or Astarion, they will hook up at the tiefling party and sleep together. By the way, if Astarion isn't available she will try to fuck Wyll. However Wyll will only want to talk, leaving her disappointed. There is also a bug where she will say to you she slept with Astarion even if you were the one to sleep with him, which led to some Astarion haters to say "see, he went to fuck someone else the moment your Tav fell asleep". Lmao.

Wyll was such a downer at the tiefling party, I gotta say. I'm having some trouble connecting with his character because he doesn't seem to get involved in anything and I don't really understand how to play warlock. It's gonna be ages until I find his dad, so I don't really know what to do with him lol.

"Yeah, I just made the decision that I don’t want to have the Illithid menu activated, even if nothing will happen if I just take 1-2 tadpoles. But, for RPG reasons, we’re doing all of this shit to get rid of them, why would I add more of them, you know?" I didn't eat any tadpoles in my first playthrough either. But I will indulge in them this time with my Dark Urge bard. He's crazy enough to do it lol. Plus, some of the abilities the tadpoles will give you are pretty great. It's just that indulging a lot in them may have some consequences…

"Right?? It would work so much better if he took it down a notch or two. Atm it’s mainly pantomime. I nearly gagged when he talked about “our mutual ecstasy”." You'll get another offer to sleep with him (but no cutscene this time) and he'll try some new lines! Watch out for them!

"I managed to knock her out and free Halsin so fingers crossed!" I hope she won't end up bugged. Before you rescue her in Moonrise Towers from the prison, make sure to make some saves. There will be others who will need saving as well!

Also I don't get why the fuck didn't Halsin transform into a rat or something and escape from the prison lol. Plot reasons, I gues? But it's stupid nonetheless.

I think I may have mentioned something about some recent Astarion discourse… There is this group of "Astarion is actually gay" fans because he acts flamboyantly and two of his former victims she was forced to seduce and bring back to Cazador were men...For many of them it's just their personal headcanon though, which is okay! But some (as well as a few others) often shit on f/m Tav/Astarion ships, headcanons, fan art and even fan fics bemoaning the fact that he's often mischaracterized in a lot of this type of content. It's also apparently heteronormative to ship Astarion with a woman or something lol, that we are delusional to think he would actually be into some of our female Tavs. Some even went as far as saying that Astarion fulfills some women's fantasies of being with a gay man and that's why we like him. Lol what? At first these people tried to excuse it "we are just curating our own fandom space, that's why we mention our dislike for f/m content and we block it on sight because we're gay!" which I fully get since it's understandable for a gay man to avoid f/m content, you know? Here's the thing though: they keep complaining about it even after supposedly blocking this stuff which begs the question: why keep talking about it so much if you hate it so much? Unless your purpose is to gatekeep the character and make women who like him feel bad about it? Because that's what it looks to me lol.

Of course some of the wives got a bit pissed and one of them even used a slur against gay men in response. It was the one I mentioned about pretending to be into a real relationship with Astarion. Anyway, at this point I don't even care this much about them getting shit and being shamed for liking their f/m Tav and Astarion ship because in the past many of these wives joined fandom mobs against others for silly reasons so in a way, it makes me feel lowkey happy they are finally getting a taste of their own medicine. Fellow wives, please do enjoy being called homophobic!!! Meanwhile think of the times you were throwing "-phobics" accusations at others!

Another ridiculous thing to fight about. :)) I mean, Astarion will sleep with you no matter your gender or race or how you look like, so I'm pretty sure he was always meant to be pansexual, all the companions were. It's so goofy to fight about this, it's in the game mechanics.

But, yeah, I understand the feeling of schadenfreude. 🙏

Now seriously complaining about fanon content it's a bit useless. When it comes to fan fic, Astarion is mischaracterized in most of it, INCLUDING m/m ships. In the end many of these authors are really young and honestly? Most are writing for themselves and what they personally like. You are not owed anything. I don't like several tropes either but I won't complain about them existing you know? I just don't read fics including them.

I also want to clarify that not every f/m Astarion ship is getting dunked on, it's mostly those ships where the woman in question doesn't fit the archetype modern fandoms think a strong, capable woman is supposed to look and act like. You've been in the HOTD fandom for long enough to see what I'm referring to lol...what type of women these fans dislike and consider weak.

By the way I'm having flasbacks to those Aemond/OC fics right now, heeelp! I admit to complaining quite a bit about those during season 1 but man...to think Aemond would betray his family to be with Rhaenyra's daughter? And the incessant Alicent bashing every other paragraph?

Yeah, I have done my fair share of complaining (hello lucemond and Rhaenyra's daughter LOL), but, like in all things, I have always been of the opinion that moderation is key here. It can be a relief to have a space to complain about all the things that annoy you and people should be allowed to talk about what they don't like as well, but, if you find that's the only thing you focus on, it's time to take a step back. I hated the Alicent-bashing myself and I'm glad I talked about it and I'm sure a lot of other things will annoy me in the future and I will also talk about them, but some people do make hateposting look like a full time job, when it's really not that serious.

Speaking of goofy HotD tropes, I was browsing the Astarion/Tav tag on AO3 and, of course, I found Tavs named Rhaenyra and Visenya, if you can believe it. I noped out so quick. 😂

I've also noticed that many BG3 bullies finally moved on to the new Dragon Age game and like I correctly predicted, they are now causing discourse over there. I am interested in the DA series but I'm not touching it as I don't want to share a fandom with these people anymore. Playing BG3 and interacting with the fandom (Twitter, reddit, Tumblr) at the height of its popularity has proved to be really tiring and by far my worst online experience.

Oh, yes, I've heard that game is causing quite a ruckus. I've been watching some clips out of curiosity with my boyfriend while eating, just for the sake of having something on the screen, but, I have to say, the fact that most of these commentators sound like incels who have not known the touch of a woman in a long time (if ever) is not helping the critical landscape. :)) Like, I've seen the ridiculous bharv (?) scene and, yes, it was cringy and I understand the game pauses many times to lecture you, but I still haven't properly understood why the game play is that bad, because they're not focusing on that and are instead frothing at the mouth at the idea that your tav can have top surgery scars, you know what I mean? The companions do sound annoying and it's silly that you can only be a goody two-shoes over there.

BONUS 1: https://imgur.com/a/72SRYya - I hope this is bait for their own sake but why do they always talk as if he is real? Not surprised though. I mean it's common even for those wives who seem normal to pretend he is real and say something like "Astarion would hate you for thinking/believing this" as if he's real. Also, him possibly hating some of my takes would be a good sign if you catch my meaning. ;)

"Tactless" - excuse me? I can't believe the way this is worded, I had to pause for a second there. 😂 "Telling someone their partner is an abuser" - he's not your partner!!! And if your partner were behaving like that, I'd hope someone in your life would tell you! Good Lord.

Yet again I'm having flashbacks to Aemond discourse when antis tried to make Helaemonds feel bad with "He loves her like a sister you freak!!! Aemond would actually hate you for shipping him with her!" yeah Aemond is also not real, hope this helps!

Ah, what a golden goose of a discourse this was! We did have some fun in our time! 🤌

BONUS 2: https://wanderingbardtoys.com/collections/astarion-the-vampire-rogue ;) Astarion inspired dildos lol

Holy godsdamned hellsssssssssssssss 😂😂😂😂😂 Why are they coloured like that????

I do have to admit, though, that these are much better than the oversized tick of a penis that toy statue of his had. The one that looks like what I imagine Jabba the Hut's "throbbing member" would look like if I were to entertain the idea and be completely insane. I was even cursed today to see a thumbnail of it when I opened the YouTube app on my phone.

EDIT: Wait a minute, I just had a look at length and girth.... Is he a man or a donkey???

Daddy's "home" - what home?? He doesn't have a house. ☠️ He's jobless.

By the feel free to ignore this if you don't feel like replying, it's okay if you only want to address a specific point. This got way too long..

No, but I do enjoy our little talks very much. It's just I wasn't really feeling like being online that much these past two weeks. I hope you're well and get to read this! 🫶

#miss lemon plays bg3 #anti astarion #anti gale

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olyve-oyle · 1 year ago

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Best new bands IMO

I felt like I was getting in one of those "there are no good bands anymore" funks so here's the remedy

These are the bands that formed around or post 2010 that I think are really good

Powerplant is a fairly popular synth punk typed band that I really love, I've listened to three or four of these albums. They're very technically skilled and the music sounds great. Its got at times a dreamy surreal quality and its very cool. I really recommend them.

Gee Tee has many releases and a few of these are compilation albums that include a huge number of other bands I would love to learn more about including an Abba cover by Prison Affair which actually really works. Their sound is pretty reminiscent of a lot of the classic punk favorites while still being creative and refreshing. Lot of energy, lot of power, perfect amount of distortion. Good Night Neanderthal is a good listen.

Lost system only has a few releases but both are absolutely worth listening to in my opinion. Its great post punk with such an interesting sound. And its often very lyrically astute. Interestingly enough they also toured with protomartyr back in 2016

Which is another of my personal favorite new bands (well newish, formed in 2010 which I consider new)

Protomartyr is a little hard to pin genre wise which is great. They have frequently intellectual artistic lyrics and a sound that is at times closer to post punk and in some albums very punk sounding, albeit still with a darker sound that doesn't at all resemble more boppy punk bands. They just released a new album (if this post gets one like I will post pictures of the album inserts and an in depth review) I really really recommend them.

Advoids have just started releasing music but its awesome stuff thats very experimental and interesting, not at all formulaic. Incredibly worth listening to especially if you're finding everything else boring.

I'm maybe biased with these guys because I saw them live, but if super intellectual stuff is not filling the void then this is great. Fast paced, punk metal fusion, more like grindcore than crossover thrash but with a more distinct beat. Very over the top and tons of fun.

Last but not least: local! Also biased because I saw them live ofc (and because I know at least one member of the band is a very nice person) but besides that they're a great thrash band with a lot of technical skill that makes fun, heavy music.

Honorable mentions (these aren't less good I just have heard less and know less about them)

Most recently I heard about this band from an account for another band online. I've only listened to a few of their songs so far but they're pretty cool its got a gothic sound that also has metal influence as far as I can hear. At least the last album reminded me a bit of specimen at times. I'm going to keep listening and form a more solid opinion

This is a band I found out about in 2020 but completely lost track of afterward. Its got a cool sound with a lot of influences and I remember really enjoying it although I dont remember much about it anymore. I'd like to pick it back up

I believe that this band is semi popular currently. I first heard them in 2020 around the same time I got into protomartyr, but never really followed up until a friend loaned me their copy of bright green field this year. They're definitely a great band and I think very popular among people who enjoy protomartyr or other similar bands.

I definitely don't know everything about these bands so if anyone wants to give me more relevant information that would be nice.

Anyway that concludes this post because I can't add any more images

#music #new bands #local #I don't know why I made this

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anarmorofwords · 3 years ago

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Hi! You're probably not going to like this ask, but before getting into it I'd just like to say that this isn't meant as Kamala hate or anything, and I don't really want to offend.

Having said that, wouldn't it make sense that we get to see how Kamala treated Anna after she came out? It's in all likelihood one of the things that's weighing on Anna the most.

Obviously Kamala had her valid reasons: her parents aren't as liberal as the Lightwoods, she believes (knows?) their love is conditional as she's adopted, she's not white and not being heterosexual could further any treatment she's suffered from being different... Her reasons have already been listed multiple times by multiple people. Kamala has the right to stay in the closet and fear coming out. And while that shouldn't be villianised, we can't forget that closeted people can harm those around them.

If Kamala had kept treating Anna like a good friend, rumour would've sparked, and even if it was denied, she'd have been harmed by merely associating with Anna. Especially with the life Anna began leading; she could have been labelled as one of Anna's 'conquests' by the Clave. That, as we've established, is detrimental for her safety.

But at the same time, it would create a breach between Anna and Kamala. And Anna had the right to be hurt by it and weary of it when Kamala said she wanted a relationship.

If we look at it from that perspective, Anna's actions (though inexcusable in how they treated Kamala --who was also at fault for not accepting a negative for four months) make sense. Kamala wasn't only a fling of a week*, but also the girl she lost her virginity with, who asked her to be her secret (until she married Charles, after which Anna's affections would be discarded), who hid her sexuality for two years and sat back while Anna suffered from homophobic commentary, and who now wants a relationship hidden from most of the people that know her.

Kamala shouldn't be forced to come out; but the harm that can do to the women she may engage with is reflective of what happens nowadays. I can mostly think of examples with gay men, so my apologies in advance. But how many women have seen their marriages ruined by their husband having affairs with men?

Creating characters that reflect a toxic part of the 'hidden' LGBT community shouldn't be seen as hating or villinifying. Thomas isn't out and he isn't labelled a villain by the narrative --because his actions don't harm anyone. The hate Alastair gets in-universe is because of his past as a bully, not because he's gay. Matthew's not fully out and he isn't villianised --like Thomas, because the decisions he makes to keep his sexuality hidden don't impact anyone negatively.

I'll even go as far as saying that not even the narrative villianises characters like Kamala and Charles. If it were, they'd be seen more like Grace in Chain of Gold. We'd see how Kamala's actions are affecting Anna's in more ways than anger (that in itself put the fandom against Anna), and the characters would note so. We wouldn't see scenes were Cordelia empathised with Charles, nor Matthew said he loved him.

Be it as it may, Kamala and Charles represent ugly parts of being closeted that can naturally occur when someone is in their position. LGBT people are human. Humans, when put into very difficult situations (and Charles risks his career; Kamala her safety), can make decisions that harm those around them. Consequently, the people they're harming have a right to feel, well, harmed in whatever range of ways --this goes mostly for Alastair, and very partly for Anna, whose treatment of Kamala was horrible.

Readers need to understand what is pushing these 'villianised' characters to harm (again, mostly for Alastair) the more prominent characters and go beyond how they are instantly depicted. Because these are complex characters based on complex real people influenced by very ugly realities we will move on from someday, but sadly not yet.

By the way, Charles and Kamala's situations aren't that similar beyond the closeted thing, but I crammed them together because of a post I saw you reblog.

Please understand I'm not justifying Charles's actions; that I understand the pain he's put Alastair through, and know that he shouldn't ever be near Alastair. Nor am I trying to justify Anna's actions nor hate on Kamala.

I'll just finish my pointless rant by adding that I do think cc has sensitivity readers. I think she asked a gay man to go through tec (I don't know if he still revised her other books, though), and know she asked POC's input when writing someone for their culture. I don't know much beyond that, but I doubt who revises her stuff is up to her. Wouldn't that be something the publisher is responsible for (honest question)?

*I've also noticed people using the argument that they didn't know each other long enough for Anna to harbour such ugly emotions towards Kamala, but Kamala also remembered Anna pretty deeply and is 'in love' with her. I just wanted to say that considering cc writes (fantastical) romance where someone can ask a woman they met two months ago marriage, stressing over time spaces doesn't make much sense. Just my take.

hi!!

alright, where do I start? probably would be best with stating that while I can analyse Kamala's situation with what I know/see/read about racism and discrimination and reasonably apply things I've read/heard from PoC to the discussion, as well as try to be as sensitive about it as possible, I'm still a white woman, so not a person that's best qualified to talk about this.

that being said - if someone wants to add something to this conversation, you're obviously more than welcome to, and if there's something in my answer that you don't agree with or find in some way insensitive or offensive - please don't hesitate to call me out on that.

back to your points though: (this turned into a whole ass essay, so under the cut)

I don't think Anna shouldn't be able to reminiscent on Kamala's behaviour/reaction to her coming out, or be hurt by it. what bothers me is the way CC talks about it - I can't remember the exact phrasing, but the post where she mentioned this suggested something along the lines of "you'll see how Kamala sided with the Clave and didn't defend Anna after her coming out", therefore putting the blame on Kamala and completely disregarding the fact that Kamala wasn't in position to do much at all. It suggest that their situation was "poor Anna being mistreated by Kamala". therefore I'm afraid Kamanna's main problem/conflict will remain to be portrayed as "Anna having to allow themselves to love again and forgive Kamala", while Anna's shortcomings - and Kamala's vulnerable position - are never discussed. I think it would be possible to acknowledge both Kamala's difficult situation and the possible hurt her behaviour caused Anna without being insensitive towards Kamala's character, but it would take a really skilled - and caring - author to do both of the perspectives justice. CC would have to find a balance between being aware of the racism/prejudice Kamala faced/ writing her with lots of awareness and empathy, and still allowing her to make mistakes and acknowledging them. As it is however, I'm under impression that she's just treating it as a plot device, a relationship drama.

I'd say no one expects characters of color to be written as flawless or never making mistakes, it's mostly the way these mistakes are written and what things these characters are judged/shamed/

And that's - at least in my understanding and opinion - where the problem is. it's that the narrative never even addresses Anna's faults, and portrays Kamala as the one that caused all - or most of - the pain, without ever even acknowledging her problems and background.

White characters in TLH make mistakes and fuck up - because they're human and they're absolutely allowed to - but the thing is, non-white characters aren't afforded that privilege. Anna's behaviour is never questioned - none of it, shaming Kamala for not being able to come out, dismissing her desire to be a mother, or any of the questionable things she did in ChoI. Same with Matthew, James, Thomas. Alastair and Kamala however? they're constantly viewed through their past mistakes, and forced to apologize for them over and over, forced to almost beg for forgiveness. Moreover, those past mistakes are used as a justification of all and any shitty behaviour the other characters exhibit towards them now, which is simply unfair and cruel. They're held to a much higher standard.

So I'd like to say that yes, Kamala was in the wrong to keep nagging Anna after numerous rejections, and she was in the wrong to not inform Anna about Charles prior to them having sex - but that doesn't give Anna a free pass to constantly mistreat Kamala. And let's be real, Anna isn't stupid - while at 17 she could be naive and uninformed, I can't imagine how after years of hanging out with the Downworlders and numerous affairs and being out and judged by the Clave she's still so ignorant about Kamala's situation. I definitely think she's allowed to be hurt, but to still not understand why Kamala did what she did? Anna isn't blaming her for not telling her about Charles earlier - which would be fair - but instead for refusing to engage in an outright romance with her. She's being ignorant - and consciously so, I think.

Overall, I think you're definitely right about how coming out - or staying closeted - can be messy and hurt people in the process, especially in unaccepting environments/time periods, and I've seen enough discourse online to know there will never be a verdict/stance on this that will satisfy everyone. I, for one, would really like to refrain from putting all the blame on a single person - but, at least the way I see it, CC is pointing fingers. maybe not directly, but she is. Kamala, Alastair and Charles have no friends or support systems, and the only people in the narrative that defend them are themselves (ok, Cordelia does defend Alastair from Charles, but not from shitty takes about him and his "sins"). Also, sorry, but I don't like how you say "hid her sexuality for two years and sat back while Anna experienced homophobic comments" - it sounds very much judgemental. Kamala had every right to do that? The fact that she slept with Anna doesn't means she owed her something, and certainly not coming out and most probably destroying her life, or even defending her at the - again - expense of her own reputation, or more possibly safety.

As for Charles - it's a different issue here, at least imo - I fear that it'll be implied that his refusing to come out will is his main "sin", and therefore not something he can be judged for, which ironically, will be villainizing, but mostly will mean his actual sins are dismissed. This is where the scene with Cordelia feeling a pang of sympathy for him comes into play, and it worries me. I've never hated Charles for not wanting to come out, but rather for, let's see - grooming Alastair, disregarding Alastair's needs and feelings, disrespecting his mother, being a sexist prick, being low-key far-right coded "make Shadowhunters great again" etc.

As for sensitivity readers - I'm no expert, so I don't think my input is worth much. From what I've gathered from multiple threads/discussions on twitter, tho it is probably consulted/approved by the publisher, many authors push for that - and authors less famous and "powerful" than her. I'm not a hater, but seeing fandoms' opinions on much of her rep, I think she could do better. Because if she does have sensitivity readers, then they don't seem to be doing a great job - maybe they're friends who don't wanna hurt her feelings? Or maybe she thinks a gay guy's feedback will be enough for any queer content - which, judging by the opinions I've seen from the fans, doesn't seem to be true.

Again, these are mostly my thoughts and I'm more than open to reading other opinions, because *sigh* I really don't know how to handle this.

Bottom line - I really really don't want to be hating on the characters in general, playing God in regards to judging the struggles of minorities, or even criticising the characters too harshly for being human, flawed etc. What my main issue is is how CC handles those complex and heavy topics.

I hope I make sense and this answer satisfies you somehow - I also hope someone better equipped to answer might wanna join this conversation.

* I desperately need a reread of TLH before I engage in any more conversations like this, but I didn't wanna leave you hanging. So yeah, I might be remembering things wrong. Again, let me know, I'm very much open to being corrected as well as to further discussion.

* I use she/her pronouns for Anna because that's what she uses in canon

#the last hours #tlh #alastair carstairs #shadowhunters #the shadowhunter chronicles #anti charles fairchild #is this anti anna?#kamala joshi #ariadne bridgestock #chain of iron #chain of gold #spilling the tea

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thestarssystem · 4 years ago

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hello! same anon who asked the last question about being able to send an ask! i've been having questions about whether or not i could be an osdd system (1b to be specific) but i can't find answers to sone questions so i was hoping you could help me out? it's really long, sorry:(

1. the thing i have the most issues with is alters fronting. i don't exactly know how it feels to have another alter fronting and taking control of the body. there's only been a few times where i've genuinely felt like i wasn't in control of my body & felt trapped in it but other than that, whenever all my other alters(?) fronted i would still generally be able to control the body. i don't know how to explain it. for example, an alter who i think is a protector was fronting last night but besides the name and some traits, everything was pretty much still the same, like as if i was the protector? and i'm not the most knowledgeable on how osdd works, but should i be feeling atleast somewhat out of my control ?? it's happened pretty much every time an alter(?) has fronted(?) and i ended up in a really bad mood after trying to validate the possibility i might have osdd because i didn't know if this was real or if i was just being delusional. and this is kinda a silly question but when another alter fronts, thinking is still the same, right? like they can still talk in their head like a singlet would and such

2. 'voices' in your head - a lot of systems i've come across generally have the voices. i don't, atleast i don't think i do. again, i don't know how it would be if i experienced it. is it like how someone would talk to you irl? or is it more vague? or is it like, more of a feeling that you can't really 'hear' but yk it's saying that?

3. i can't exactly communicate with my alters, if i have any. i don't know how to and even then it feels really odd trying to talk to myself and again, i start to feel dumb/delusional again because osdd may not even be the case.

4. similar to the last thing, is it normal to 'talk' to your system? like last night for example, it's a blurry memory now but i remember 'we're going to bed now' 'we're gonna do this and then sleep' and such, despite the fact i know we can't really communicate. i think another alter was fronting then

4. i have trouble recognizing my alters as seperate identities and people, and rather tend to think they're pieces of me. so like, if another alter were to do something, and later i fronted, and if i would talk about what the other alter did i would still use "i did" rather than "(other alter) did". i'd just like some advice on this part

5. i have no idea whether or not systems i've met have 'different talents' but i've seen it going around a lot. to be more specific, my 'talents' or other stuff has never really changed. i usually still have social anxiety, my triggers are usually still the same, i've never suddenly gotten good at anything, and so on. is it a normal/common thing for systems for that not to happen?

6. memory. i have really bad memory, which actually led me to did/osdd (+ 8/9 year old me going "why do i feel like two people" and googling it years ago), and i always have trouble recalling what happened. after i do anything and i try to think back to it - it's just foggy. i can sometimes remember a bit of what happened, but generally i'll have to think for a bit and the visual memory of it will just be really really blurry. this happens pretty much every day but i have no idea if it does the same with important events because nothing important has really happened. and another thing - when you switch, do you still remember friends/online friends/family? i've had times where they've seemed odd(?) and somewhat unrecognizable but i've always known it's them, same with trauma and other stuff. i've always kinda known about it.

7. i've tested some things multiple times. for example, a few days or weeks ago, i was doing and typing stuff on discord in a server just for me, for fun. when i went away and checked back later, i know that it was me who did it, just not,, me, yk? like it happened with my own fingers and hands, i didn't have exact visual memories that i did it, but i had memory of doing it, so like, i knew, despite the fact another alter could've been the one doing it. same thing happened last night - now that i look back at the account i, or my alter, created, i can tell it wasn't exactly 'me', but i still had memory doing it. and it's never been like "what is this? i have zero memory of doing this" or something like that

8. i don't really have roles for my alters. well, some do. for example i think a protector (and maybe caretaker as well) was fronting last night. i just have trouble with the roles? if that makes sense. unless it comes naturally, like the protector for example, it's just kinda really hard for me to make stuff out. i also have dpdr & i dissociate and i believe that influences on how i view my identity and how i can't really make out stuff, even stuff like emotions, my opinion on something, who's fronting, etc.

9. as far as i know, systems have an 'inner world', right? i know some systems that don't, but i'm not sure if i have it and i dont know how to find out if i do

to add on, i'm kinda worried i might just be thinking i have osdd because i've been exposed(?) to it and that i might just be delusional and that i'm just making people up

lastly, would it be a good idea to try to reach out to alters? and if i should, how would i do so? thank you :D !! again, i'm really really sorry this was so long! don't stress yourself out on this please:]

- fox

DISCLAIMER: We are not trained mental health professionals! All of the information we give is coming from our own experience as a system, or from research we have done! We always recommend that, if at all possible, you speak to a therapist about OSDD/DID!

hello! thanks for you questions! i’ll do my best to answer everything haha. I’m going to section everything off in the same way you did, but there may be some overlap between questions!

1.)I’m gonna start my answer to this by saying that switching feels and looks different for every system. There is no one way to switch. What happens for us when we fully switch is the obvious dissociative feeling, and then it feels like we’re “falling” almost and then after that falling feeling, we’ve switched. With your experience you’re describing, though, it seems more like co-conscious or co-fronting. Co-conscious is typically a feeling like you’re still in full control of the body, but another alter is in the ‘passenger seat of the car’ and is giving their thoughts on what’s happening on the outside. Co-fronting is more of a feeling where you feeling like you’re half in control of your body, and another alter has half control of your body. This can be a moment (that i’ve vaguely described on my tumblr actually) of feeling like “this isn’t my hand. I’m not controlling that arm.” However, that feeling can also happen with depersonalization. To help you tell the difference, i think it could be helpful to journal when/if you get those feelings and if you “feel” different, like you could actually be another alter. —/ part b.) for my system at least, thinking is still the same, regardless of who’s fronting. I’m not sure if that’s the same for other systems, but i’ve never heard or seen anyone talking about thinking being any different, but i have heard systems discussing something i’ll address in #2

2.) so, in my experience, my system does not audibly hear each other’s voices. Some systems do, and some systems have a different form of communication. Since i can’t talk about audible voices, i’ll only talk about ‘intrusive thought’ communication, which is what we experience. For my system, we get an intrusive thought of sorts. It’s just a thought, but we can tell who it’s coming from (honestly not really sure how, it’s just a feeling. I can always tell who is telling me something) That thought is different from normal thinking though, because it doesn’t feel like it’s coming from us and it has a different... vibe?? idk i honestly can’t really think of how to explain it lmaoo. To continue my answer from part 1, alters can use something called “passive influence” which is where they ‘control’ your thoughts to get what they want. An easy example is if someone asks what you (the fronting alter) want to drink and you want to answer water, but another alter wants sprite, they can use passive influence to say that YOU want sprite, when really you don’t. That’s the only way I can really think of the act of thinking being different though haha.

3.) my system doesn’t really have the best internal communication, but that’s the case for a lot of systems, especially new ones. It takes time and determination. One of the ways i’ve seen suggested to help with internal communication is before you go to sleep, when you’re in the calm and peaceful state, just ask into your head if anyone is there and wants to talk to you. Let them knower they’re safe and that you want to talk. Keep the convo friendly and ask them about themselves (i.e their name, age, role {if they have one}, favorite color, etc)

4.) to be completely honest, it’ll just take practice to change your habit of using “i did.” I don’t know how old you are, but you went your entire life up until this point believing you were a singlet. Using “i did” is still natural for you to use as a default. Try to catch yourself as (or after) you say “i did” and try to correct yourself and overtime that habit will hopefully be broken. The same goes for not really recognizing your alters. You went your whole life thinking everything was just ‘you’ (the host) so now, when discussing OSDD, it might be hard to really pinpoint who is who. That’ll just take time though. But don’t force your alters to fit a specific mold you made for them. Everything with figure itself out eventually

5.) what you described (with different talents and different mental health issues) doesn’t happen to my system and i believe it doesn’t happen to a good portion of systems, especially OSDD systems. The only thing that really changes for my system from alter to alter is preferences, such as food, instruments (my system knows how to play 8 instruments and each alter prefers one over the other lmao), and hobbies (like reading, painting, and writing) HOWEVER, we all still can paint and play all 8 of our instruments with the same skill. Our skill level doesn’t change between alter, just our desire to do that activity (if that makes any sense lmao)

6.) problems with memory and forgetting things is not a sign of OSDD-1b. Dissociative amnesia is only a sign of OSDD-1a and DID. I think it might be helpful to keep track of your switches and see if your memory “fog” overlaps with it. If yes, then you should probably consider check out OSDD-1a or DID. If it doesn’t, my honest suggestion is to consider talking to a doctor/therapist about memory problems and short term memory loss. (also to answer your question asking if we remember online friends: yes, we always remember other people, regardless of who’s fronting)

7.) this relates back to the memory question. OSDD-1b is not characterized by forgetfulness or memory problems. With OSDD-1b, you will never have that moment of “I don’t remember doing this” unless there is a VERY specific reason (i.e. a traumatic event that needs to be hidden) It is normal, on the other hand, to know that another alter did something, rather than you, and still have memory of it.

8.) i think roles are difficult for a lot of systems. I know my system had (and still has) a little bit of trouble with roles. My biggest advice is actually something i’m following rn and that’s to not force roles. Let alters naturally choose their roles. It may take a really long time though, but that’s okay. It might help to do some research as well. Google all the different alter types and see if you can pinpoint some that fit your system (like i said though, don’t forget those roles! let them have the ultimate decision)

9.) My system doesn’t have an inner world. We have something called Aphantasia which makes it impossible to see images in our head. There are systems who don’t have an inner world, however i don’t know if there is a specific reason or not. Ive heard that meditating can help you access the inner world, as well as, once again, trying to access it before you fall asleep. However, because I can’t have an inner world, i haven’t done much research on the topic and I suggest that you try and find a method that works for you :)

closing points: When considering any type of mental health problem/ mental disorder, make sure you’re not bending the diagnostic criteria to fit you. With OSDD, there are slight differences between every system, but nothing major that would require serious bending of the criteria. At the very end, you asked if you should try and reach out to your alters. You DEFINITELY should. They’re scared and confused, just like you. I think my answer for 3.) gives a good, easy starting point for alter communication c:

I hope these answers helped, at least a little. Good luck and stay safe xx

-the stars system (written by multiple alters all at different times)

~sorry if there’s any typos~

#osdd protector #osdd positivity #did osdd #osdd problems #osdd alter #osdd community #actually osdd #osdd support #osdd system #osdd #osdd 1b #dissociative system #dissociative alters #other specified dissociative disorder

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fillorian-pocketwatch · 5 years ago

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The Makings and Fate of Quentin Coldwater: What Were the Writers Thinking?

Trigger warnings: Quentin Coldwater, seasons 4 and (briefly) 5, mentions of suicide/suicidal ideation, outdated ideas about the purity of women.

General warnings: Spoilers for the show and the books.

Buckle up, darlings, and my apologies in advance: this is a rough ride, and I don’t recommend reading it if you aren’t in the right headspace for it right now.

I hope that those who do read it might drop some LGBTQIA+ positive book/tv recommendations in the comments as a pick-me-up for others. I will add some myself if I can think of some good ones.

So as it turns out, I ran into something entirely by accident: the inspiration behind the character of Quentin Coldwater.

I knew that Eliot and his "will-they-or-won't-they" dynamic with Quentin in the Magicians books were both borrowed from Evelyn Waugh's Brideshead Revisited (Grossman has said so himself)--

but I didn't realize there was an actual preexisting character Grossman borrowed from for Q:

Quentin Compson, from The Sound and the Fury.

This explains so much for me. So much.

I ran across information about the character the other day while doing something completely unrelated (looking up some other book if I recall correctly), and when I saw the similarity of the two names and then learned about the first Quentin’s fate, I thought, could this be LG’s inspiration?

Further research revealed that yes, Lev has said as much in articles. And even if he hadn’t, the fact that he has written extensively *about* TSatF online makes it a relatively easy conclusion to draw.

While the two Quentins aren't actually much alike (at least on the surface; I haven't read TSatF yet, just in-depth summaries/analyses of it)--other than the fact that they are both mentally ill over-achiever college students, are preoccupied with the idea of another world (the world as they each wish it was), and constantly associated with symbolic clocks and watches--Quentin Compson's fate explains everything for me in terms of how to understand Quentin Coldwater's series-four fate.

Quentin Compson ultimately kills himself in the famous classic novel; he does so by drowning after jumping off the Anderson Memorial Bridge in Boston, Massachusetts. Today there is a plaque there to commemorate the character:

In the Faulkner novel, Quentin associates the smell of honeysuckle with his obsessions over his sister’s purity--an ideal he comes to feel let down by after she loses her virginity and then seems to lose herself further in the company of men he feels are unsuitable.

I can’t help but make a parallel with the “drowned garden” of season 4, episode 12.

Quentin makes the following speech in the drowned garden, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s the closest thing we get to a suicide note:

You know the worst part of getting exactly what you want? When it's not good enough. Then what do you do? If this can't make me happy, then what would? Fillory was supposed to mean something. I was supposed to mean something here. But it's all... it's just... it's random. It's so random that the only way to save my friends is to yell at a fucking plant! Honestly, fuck Fillory for being so disappointing. You know what, maybe I was better off just believing that it was fiction. The idea of Fillory is what saved my life! [laughs.] This promise... that... people like me... [weeping] People like me... Can somehow... Find an escape. There has gotta be some power in that. Shouldn't loving the idea of Fillory be enough?

But the idea of Fillory is not enough, in the end, because the idea of happiness is also not enough. And by the end of his time on the show, that’s all Quentin has: the trappings of happiness (or at least the ones available to him, the ones he thinks might get him there), without the actual emotion.

Maybe he realizes, in the drowned garden, that he is at the end of his rope. Maybe that is where he decides to give up.

That, in my opinion, is why he begins to seem so shut down: it isn’t uncommon for people to distance themselves emotionally as a precursor to suicide (hence Jason being accused of “refusing to act” toward the end of S4).

I think it’s also why he doesn’t stop to wait and see how Eliot is after Margo strikes the Monster with the axes: he has given up on the idea that the things he thinks will make him happy actually will, or that happiness is actually attainable for him in the first place.

Quentin Coldwater drowns not in the fading of honeysuckle; for him it’s peaches and plums. In any case, he is definitely in over his head, and the water that spills out of the mirrors after his death feels like an homage to that literal drowning of his predecessor.

The TM writers found ways, as the show progressed, to tie the books back in to the show; the way they did it, however, was often roundabout to say the least. Their takes on how different plot points should occur, or be interpreted from book to screen, were usually close to abstract. They did do it, in many ways, but theirs was far from a faithful adaptation.

It fits, therefore, that they would tie The Sound and the Fury into S4 the way that it appears they did.

It also tells me something about how blame for their decision can be distributed, because either the showrunners:

a.) really did their research re: Compson and put together that this was the character that inspired Lev

or, as is much more likely, they:

b.) discussed it all with Lev himself--or LG was the one to broach the subject to see what sort of take they could spin.

Whatever the lead-in to the decision, I think three things combined to give them the idea for Q’s fate:

1. Quentin Compson;

2. Alice’s description, in the third book, of watching an old god kill herself to make way for a new world (which was when Umber and Ember emerged);

3. The following lines from The Magician’s Land: “The truly sad thing was that Ember actually wanted to do it. Quentin saw that too: He had come here intending to drown Himself, the way the god before Him had, but He couldn’t quite manage it. He was brave enough to want to, but not brave enough to do it. He was trying to find the courage, longing for the courage to come to Him, but it wouldn’t, and while He waited for it, ashamed and alone and terrified, the whole cosmos was coming crashing down around Him.

Quentin wondered if he would have been brave enough. He would never know. But if Ember couldn’t sacrifice himself, Quentin would have to do it for Him.”

So, it appears, the group of writers (LG included, however actively) apparently decided to take Quentin’s thought from book three and put him in exactly that position: make the choice, or fail to make the choice.

But the need for him to make that choice was never horribly convincing. They were very mistaken if they thought it was. And no matter what, it was ultimately a horrible, damaging idea. It hurt the audience, and it killed the show. The only sacrifice that was made was made in the name of ego and “clever writing” that the writers thought was edgy and risky in some desirable way.

[Quote from vulture.com]

It's not so deep.

What they did, ultimately, was borrow from more than one outdated work, and use those as excuses to do the wrong things re: mental illness and LGBTQIA+ representation:

Evelyn Waugh’s characters fail, once again, to live their lives and desires freely and openly (What a waste to rehash the long-denied dynamic from Brideshead Revisited only to deny it again);

Quentin Compson’s legacy of suicide and hopelessness lives on (and this is made all the more offensive when you learn that Compson’s suicide was based largely on ideas of spoiled purity which were solely the burden of women to uphold).

They took what could have been made right and beautiful and instead used their story to perpetuate the same sad old traditions of queerbaiting and Burying the Gays.

Tragedy is not more profound than happiness (just ask Quentin Coldwater). I'd argue that to make something really beautiful, you need to mend what's broken.

The world is a broken place. It's easy to break things here.

The worst thing they did to Q, by far, was to use the beautiful concept of minor mending against him like it was the fuse on a stick of dynamite: the thing he’d spent his whole life seeking--his specific field, his special skill in the actual real world of magic--was what he used to kill himself. He killed himself by *fixing something.* We need no further evidence that Q had given up hope.

What a terrible message, and what a slap in the face to viewers who put their trust in this atrocious writing.

And they did nothing to redeem themselves after the fact, either. If anything, they made it even worse, somehow:

Eliot, by the end of the show, has even less than he started with.

Eliot, apparently, is us: left without Q, stripped of the comfort of a world we thought we knew. Utterly let down by the writers who had the power to make things different.

I hate to end this on such a terrible note. So let me just say that if you were let down by the show, and you miss Q, you’re far from alone! I see you, and I hear you, and I share your pain.

TM got it all wrong. But I have faith that others will get it right.

And no matter what, in the last book, Quentin lives, and has nothing but a whole world of possibility open up before him.

#The Magicians #Meta #Quentin Coldwater #The Sound and the Fury #the magicians season five #the magicians season four #the magicians books #Eliot Waugh #Brideshead Revisited #Evelyn Waugh #William Faulkner #Queliot #mental illness #lgbt representation #queerbaiting

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vtori73 · 3 years ago

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Thoughts on stuff:

TW/CW: brief mentions of suicide/ depression, ableism, & mental health related stuff

Huh... as per usual my brain tends to jump around topics a lot and after seeing someone on Instagram I follow share a good deal for any people/friends with anxiety for a weighted blanket I started to think about how I would do stuff similar like that for my Facebook or insta stories, Tumblr or even just tell my friends about (not really deals all that often, but various things like art tutorials or art program deals or even occasionally jobs open for art related stuff, etc) and this thinking or remembrance of past times always makes me spiral into other thinking and then I remembered something I saw on Twitter. It was a post by a disabled person & they were talking about how a phenomena that they don't see Disabled people talk about enough of how abled people will stop sort of helping/being your friend once they find out you are disabled. She goes on to talk about how friends who use to OFFER her help without being asked for things like rides to places to help with tasks or other similar aid and was cut off from such aid once she started talking publicly about her Disability and how some would even go so far as to accuse her of using them/being manipulative...

Now, look, disabled people are people and can be manipulative but THATS NOT THE POINT OF THIS and not to mention I like to believe people who are marginalized in multiple ways first and foremost instead of just outright being skeptical because well... it just makes sense to me too (I could explain why but that would be another paragraph so just think about it yourself). Anyway, moving back to the topic at hand I was remind of that tweet thread and it got me thinking about how Mental illnesses/disorders (or whatever the right word is because I never remember or know it) are considered disabilities and so it got me thinking about how more vocal I became online about stuff, not as much about myself/my mental health specifically but I did occasionally as a result and how it was at around the same time I did this other thing that I assumed was more of the reason why my life seemed to get lonelier but I wonder if... me talking about struggles, my mental health, etc was the reason ultimately. I didnt do it often but it happened and I just... huh... I jus don't really know what to think.

Its not like I was trying to guilt anyone, expect for maybe two posts that I think technically was trying to elicit guilt that I remember making but weren't necessarily about me, they were more about my PERSONAL opinions on things relating to people, people close to people who died by suicide and how I was tired of the same old narrative of "they seemed so happy, I NEVER knew, etc" and just my personal opinions/sort of rant of it and some other one sharing a post about how depression is not something one person themselves can treat alone and is a bit reliant on community help (that's the basic gist of it anyway, from what I remember & honestly you can argue this for a lot or even ALL disabilities). I mean, as a depressed person myself I was tired of it, in my personal life I know what it's like and it angers and annoyed me.

I mean, I know people around you like friends & family shouldn't/can't just treat your depression magically on their own BUT I also know that it doesn't help when people around you don't bother to put it into consideration or help in ways that alleviate the symptoms brought on by depression instead of just acting like nothing is different and so you treat them exactly how you treat other people which isn't helpful. I know not ALL depressed people feel this way though, but I believe that's moreso the ones who don't see it AS a disability really because if we apply how people SHOULD/how disabled people want to be treated we could see why the same should apply to depressed people and people with other mental health disorders. I mean, just think about is, one thing I've seen Disabled people talk about is how abled people push the whole "treat disabled people how you would treat everyone else" which yeah comes off fine on the surface and works in some instances like not staring at a disabled person, or not asking invasive questions about their health, or whatever else but otherwise you have to be MINDFUL of disabled people in your life of their needs etc because the world/our society doesn't have their needs in mind. Like, for example, I remember a wheel chair user I followed talk about how basically they were tired of friends who were abled inviting them over but never thinking about if their house is accessible, never getting something to make it accessible (like a ramp) and/or forcing them to use a different way other then the front which is rude at best and humiliating at worst. That, what I just talked about it what happened when you try to treat everyone "equally" instead of in a way that takes into consideration that different people will have different needs AND THATS NOT A BAD THING.

I got just a little sidetracked but anyway, I vented occasionally about being depressed, and I wouldn't be all that surprised if able people took it in away that makes it seem like you are guilting them. Maybe they feel that way because they do recognize their ableism but instead of being constructive and working to better themselves they go the opposite way and would rather stay the same and instead blame the person making them feel shitty for something they didn't want to recognize in themselves and because they deny it they then tell themselves it isn't real or that the person bringing it up MUST be in the wrong and MUST be using guilt instead of just telling a hard truth they don't want to acknowledge. Its that whole "hit dogs will holler" phenomena at play here and doesn't just happen with physically disabled people but people with invisible ones as well.

So, anyway, in conclusion, I suspect ableism might be a factor in my life that I didn't really ever think I would have to take into account. Although, not that I have concrete proof of ableism being an actual factor and something I can/do suffer from but... it seems like it might be.

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franeridart · 7 years ago

Note

This might be too much to ask but I broke my laptop and only have access to mobile and I'm dying to know what I'm actually missing but I can't check would you be able to describe it? Sorry I know this is annoying ignore it if it's too much trouble

It’s not annoying so don’t worry about it, but my posts should all be visible, now? At least my app doesn’t give me the option to request a review anymore… if you can’t see them still they’re all (aside from the one I posted earlier) backed up on my wordpress blog! You can see them from there without me needing to describe them~

Anon said:Franeri-san what dimensions do you usually use for your canvas? When I draw I end up making the canvas too small, so when i zoom in to make details it becomes pixelated. But I also don’t need my canvas too big because I won’t be able to proportion it;; it’s a visual thing… Ah I’m rambling sorry

I use a 6000pxx5000px with a 4px brush, usually, but I really rarely use it all, mostly it’s just like, corners of the whole thing. I tend to draw a lot of things on the same canvas before switching to a new one - that said, personally I can’t draw properly if I don’t zoom in above 100% (usually I work at 150% or 200%, more for details) so I’m really not the right person to ask this haha

Anon said:I saw that profanity is now being blocked more heavily by safe search so our good, good but foul mouthed Baku may be the reason your stuff is hidden. You’ve probably already heard this but I thought I’d let you know~

Rip so I heard orz though let’s not give our Baku all the fault here, I swear a lot by myself too haha I’m my own ruin, seems like - thank you for taking your time to share the info, anyway!!

Anon said:I’m really happy about your blog not being censored seriously. CAUSE YOU MAKE WONDERFUL DRAWINGS THAT FILL MY HEART AND I WAS STARTING TO PANICK. Keep up the good work~. 🖤

And I’m really happy you can properly see my blog, you sweet sweet cute and adorable anon!!!!!!!!!! *O*

Anon said:Hello! First, I love your art and your headcanons and stories! I am in love with bakushima half because of you, you beautiful tart. Second, about Bakugo’s laugh, holy crikey, of course he’s loud and explosive. The boy is a ball of stress and anger and when he laughs for real, it’s rare and takes effort. But like, can you just imagine when his explodo-kill mask cracks his face turns red because he doesn’t want to laugh. But THEN he barks out a laugh and everybody’s stunned and then he just SNORTS

YES!!!!!!! Oh my god yes that’s an hc I have he definitely, definitely snorts when he tries to hold back his laughter it’s so effin adorable I die every day a lot bless that kid

Anon said:Who tops of in your opinion in Bakushima?👀

Maybe either, maybe neither, depends on many things but mostly on how I don’t ever ask myself this question for any of my ships so I got no answer for it at all ever - instead we should ask ourselves the important questions, like who opens the water bottles between them (Kirishima when Bakugou’s palms get too sweaty and Bakugou’s forever resentful about it), who kicks when they sleep and who always ends up sleeping on the floor because of it (Bakugou’s the restless sleeper, poor Kirishima), who takes way too damn long in the bathroom goddamnit Kirishima get out of there already I swear to go——-

Anon said:your blog makes me really happy just keep doing you you’re like the best thing

Thank you so much holy smokes!!!!!!!!!! *O*

Anon said:wait wait wait wait! is Bakugou the one teaching Shark Kirishima sign language?? then does that mean Kirishima learned to sign ‘I love you’ from Bakugou!? (Q/)////(\Q)

They’re learning together!! They have an online dictionary and follow online courses, so Kirishima kind of looked it up for himself at first - he was signing it as love instead of really like thoug, which made Bakugou indecently flustered so in the end, yes, he was the one to teach him how to properly sign it :D

Anon said:Will you still be updating this blog?

Sure will! The wordpress one is just a backup thing!

Anon said:wait so question: in the mer au, does kiri know jsl from before? because the way he reacted to bakugou first attempting to sign at him looked like he recognized it but you said they both had to learn? does he react like that because he recognizes it as bakugou actively trying to communicate? (btw this au is So Good i love how kaminari is just “why are you like this” at kiri but his Gay Ass cant be swayed)

I’m glad you like it!!!!! And nope Kiri didn’t know jsl from before, but mers do have something similar to a sign language (there’s deaf and mute merpeople too, after all) so he recognized it as Bakugou going “I want to talk to you and this is the best way to” - also, he’d never seen a tablet before and Bakugou was showing him an explosion on it to make him understand and instead he went “what is this SORCERY” and got excited about a gif. Good, pure kid. I had no clue how to add that in the comic in a fast way tho so let’s leave it at him being happy they found a possible way to communicate haha

Anon said:Hi Fran!!! Hace you reas the theoriws aboyo kiri o kaminari Boeing traitors? Si you know where they came up? I’m lil bit lost even tho I’m up with the man lmao ALSO pls more maki-chan

So pretty much at some point in the middle of a meeting Present Mic mentioned how there probably was a traitor between them that kept on feeding the villains infos about UA, and the fandom of course got interested in that!! Who could it be? They started thinking it through and for some reason the theories that ended up being more popular are about it being either Kaminari, Kirishima or Hagakure - I don’t think any of these are true, but if you google search “kaminari traitor theory” or the same with the other two names you should easily find the posts explaining the theories and where they come from, if you’re interested!

Anon said:omg fran i haven’t watched/read bnha but still solely bc of your art i am IN LOVE with kirishima. he’s such a pure being I feel like crying every time i see him??? like i just watched the first opening of the anime and you bet i watched the 5 seconds kirishima gets over and over. like all the bnha kids seem great. i am somehow extremely motivated to read bnha now thanks to your art. BUT OH MY GOD KIRISHIMA I LOVE HIM SO MUCH WHAT EVEN

You picked the best fave you could ever pick, anon!!! Kirishima is the BESTEST boy, purest and brightest and energetic and actual sunshine and also super strong and resilient and kind of an ass now and again but in a good way he’s GREAT I’m IN LOVE with him good job your intuition is perfect

Anon said:THE MER AU WAS THE CUTEST THING EVER I LOVE SHARK KIRISHIMA AND THE TAGS ALL GAVE ME LIFE

GLAD YOU LIKED IT OMG!!!!!!!

Anon said:I love all your art, but especially all your self indulgent stuff bc first off HELLS YEAH DO THE STUFF THAT MAKES YOU HAPPY and another is it feels like self indulgent stuff for me but I’m not the one making the thing… So like… It’s Good™ BUT YEAH ANYWAYS I LOVE YOUR ART AND YOU AND YOUR ART MAKES ME HAPPY TBH I HOPE YOU’RE HAVING A LOVELY DAY

AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THANK YOU SO MUCH also this is super nice to know because sometimes being self-indulgent is all I can manage to do haha r i p but at least now I’ll know you, for one, will like it!!! That’s nice!!!!!!

Anon said:If you were ever bored and wanted to do more of your mershark au thing I wouldn’t be mad at all ! 😝 your art is so cute and easily recognizable and I really enjoy it! Stay beautiful lovely Fran!

!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I really, really think I will!!!!!!!! :D

Anon said:I bet if denki tried to do the “if i jump at ______ they will most certainly catch me” with bakugou, bakugou would just let him fall

Oh my god no Bakugou’s reflexes and instincts are too fast and automatic the actual reaction at seeing someone run and jump at him would be without thinking trying to explodo-kill them don’t jump at him Kaminariiiii

Anon said: What to you think of a school dance bnha concept thing???

I read a bakushima about it once and I DIED so actually A++++ great perfect amazing concept I love it

Anon said:I gotta know,what do you think of the “Dabi is Todoroki Shouto’s brother” theory? i personally feel like that 1’s the most likely theory to become a legit thing but im curious

I talked about this on my main just the other day!! And added something about it earlier through another ask! But generally I think it’s believable, and I wouldn’t mind it being true :D

Anon said:But, what are your feelings about this chapters? And Kirishima? God, I love him even more and want him to be happy, but Im also dying to know what happened to him in his past!!

I CRIED I love that boy so much I swear it’s getting ridiculous I’m so so proud of him and how far he’s come and I just want him to be happy??? I do want to know his past tho!!! I’ve just been asking for this for, like, eight months!! I hope next one will be the one I’ll finally learn about my child tbh ;–;

Anon said:Fran you should totally do bnha and haikyuu calendars

………………..boi that sounds like a lot of work, anon. Like, it’s an interesting idea, but also my lazy ass is telling me no way no what the heck go to sleep instead r i p

Anon said:Have you ever thought of an eraser mic fusion?

I’ve drawn it already!!

Anon said:fran i?? i love the way you draw smiles?? idk i was just going through your art and i realized that holy SHIT i really love the way you draw smiles. like each smile is different and has its own specialty. esp bakugo’s smile I LOVE HOW YOU DRAW HIS SMILE!! like usually it’s not really noticeable but then there’s that slight quirk of his mouth (see what i did there?) and it’s so perfect. idk dude i just REALLY LOVE THE WAY YOU DRAW SMILES

THIS IS SUCH A CUTE ASK I DON’T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER HELP ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you????? so much??????? I’m glad you like them cause honestly I love drawing people smiling and laughing, it makes my heart smile too~

Anon said:Theres a bnhaStuck blog in the works ;)

That’s? Nice! I guess!! I hope whoever’s working on it will have fun with it!!

Anon said:Fran this last BNHA chapter hurt so bad. And then I saw your mer-Kiri and it cheered me up!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m glad I could cheer you up cause honestly I felt that pain a whole damn lot too ;A; let’s hope Kiri won’t have to suffer much more in this arc #sob

Anon said:im crying fran, my hard bby kiri in the latest chap,,, my baby boi, i know that i wanted to know more abt him but,, keep my baby safe pls oh goodness gracious… (and as usual ur bootiful art keeps me alive)

I mean nearly all the character arcs we got are damn sad so it was obvious Kiri’s was going to be too, but still ;A; don’t make him suffer too bad Hori I beg u ;A;

Anon said:*takes deep breath* I FUCKING LOVE YOU SO MUCH THANK YOU FOR MAKING QUALITY ART OF MY FAVOURITE SHIPS YOU ARE SUCH AN AMAZING PERSON AND YOUR ART IS VERY PRETTY AND I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR EXISTING IN GENERAL BYe

THANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO MUCH OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anon said:!!!!!!FRAN!!!!!! YOUR MER!KIRI AU!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D I’m glad you enjoy it!!!!!!

Anon said:I love your work 😍. You are the only one who makes comics About my favourite ships. I check your web everyday If you post something new. My fav ships are I.waoi, bok.uroo and bak.ushima. Love your work 🙂

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh thank you!!!! holy smokes!!!!!

Anon said:Do you have an OC for Boku no Hero Academy?

The closest things to bnha ocs I have are the fusions, right now, but there’s a couple of asks in my inbox about a bkkr kid… soon……..

Anon said:Quick question, I want to read haikyuu, I’ve watched the anime already and I was wondering how close the anime follows the manga, like how bnha is basically identical, is it the same? Or is there a bit of difference *^*

I’m SO SORRY THIS TOOK ME FOREVER TO ANSWER - I bet you already found your answer elsewhere, but anyway the anime is pretty much exactly the same as the manga!!

Anon said:Back on the topic of hq!!! I find it funny how people ask about bok.uroo so much as if you dont like them anymore when they’re literally still your header, like if you didn’t care for them they’d think you’d change it to bakushima or something

I’ve literally thought about changing my header so often but then I look at it and I’m like….. my kids………… I can’t do this………………. not yet…………………. same for my icon tbh haha I love them too much rip

Anon said:Okay but what if Kirishima makes a really stupid pun and Bakugou just turns away with a curse and he’s just covering his mouth and quietly giggling into his hand because even he can’t believe he found that funny, and that is SHAMEFUL. And Sero in the distance is just looking at him, all disappointed. Quietly judging the fact that Kirishima and Bakugou are practically meant for one another.

You wanna know the best thing the absolute best thing? My very first bnha comic was something eerily similar to the first part of this ask! Only Bakugou was the one to accidentally make a pun - I’d link it but honestly my style was ridiculous back then so not happening, just know that I’m 100% sure that post is the reason why I keep on drawing bnha comics about puns, my very first post set the path for all the others to come hah a curse I don’t actually mind

Anon said:are you planning on starting another series? like the bokuroteru tattoo shop au you did (it was real dandy and rad) it was what made me find your blog, so i was wondering if you have any future plans for anything similar. i really like your blog lots, i hope you have a nice day!

Right now I don’t actually have any idea orderly enought to make a proper series out of it, rip - maybe in the future, tho! That one comic was fun to make, after all!! And thank you!!!!!!!!

Anon said:IM HARDCORE IN LOVE WITH TODOSHIMA THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR RUINING MY LIFE❤️❤️

I’M GLAD YOU LIKED HIM OH M Y GODS!!!!

#so many damn asks in this one #GAH i need to answer them more often my pAL S #anyway it's #seriously late im going to sleep now #that one drawing i mentioned will have to wait for tomorrow #anonymous

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mybodyliberation · 5 years ago

Text

Wed2B Edinburgh Bridal Review

It would be foolish for me to say that every little girl dreams of trying on wedding dresses because that's simply not true; and to be honest it wasnt until I was about 17 that I would lose myself in hour long day dreams about my future husband and my dream dress.

But those day dreams started when that iconic tv show Say Yes The Dress aired and I found myself fascinated and captivated by satin, tulle, ball gowns and boho sheaths.

So needless to say after years of having not so secret pinterest boards I was prepared and exited to embark on the adventure of finding my dream dress.

Now a few pieces of information about me to get the ball rolling and for reference for the rest of the post and future wedding dress posts.

• Leading up to visiting Wed2B Edinburgh, I had never tried on a wedding dress before.

• My everyday clothing size sits between 18/20

• None of this is an AD, gifted or sponsored in anyway.

• All of these views are my own opinion

• I will also have a short vlog series in the next few weeks documenting my my wedding dress shopping experience for both dress and accessories.

Now that we've got that out of the way let's get down to business, obviously not to defeat the huns but in fact to discuss wedding dresses, any Disney nerds with me?

Now I did all of this in my most recent week off from tour and I did that because if it so happened I needed to order a dress from scratch waiting even an extra 6 weeks until I finish tour meant less time for ordering and alternation etc and keep in mind that with a wedding date of 4th April 2020 only 8 months away that doesn't leave as much time as you think.

Depending on the store and the designer you could need an entire year to order to a dress in advance and so really the earlier you look the better.

This isnt to say you could find something with limited time but it also does mean your limited in your options.

If you are planning to leave things a bit later then actually Wed2B could be an option for you. The reasons behind this are to follow.

We visited the Wed2B Edinburgh store on Wednesday 10th July 2019. As I said it was a perfect time to go because it was my week off and it meant we could go during the day.

I honestly can't recommend this enough because truthfully with a set up like Wed2B going later in the evening or at the weekend is guaranteed to be extremely overwhelming.

This is because this is a no appointment system. You turn up, wait to be seen my a stylist and the process begins there. I can imagine that during busy periods it could take hours to be seen, but we arrived at 2pm.

We were greeted by the lovely Esther, who explained a little bit about the store and what would be happening.

I imagine each stores layout will be different but in Edinburgh each rail represented a size and they start from a size 6 to 30. We were told that depending on the style and cut of the dress it could mean you would need to size up so unfortunately if you're a size 30 and up, I dont know how accessible the dresses will be but it's always worth turning up and trying the dresses on to see.

The rail that I needed was one that had the size 18s onwards. It was one singular rail and there actually wasnt that much of choice. I had named to Esther the dresses I specifically wanted to try on because I had seen them online but they were sold out.

That's another thing there is definitely a demand for their collections which has a lot to do with the fact that the quality is actually great and the prices are low and they do cater to a large amount of sizes. This means that brides will be doing their research, finding the store that has the dress they want, tracking it down, trying it on and purchasing it on the day because theres no guarantee that the dress you try on will be there the next day.

They have deliveries every week but it doesn't mean it will be the specific dress you're looking for or your size. Also their limited collections tend to sell out within weeks especially if the design of the dress happens to be what is popular at the moment. For example they have a design that looks very similar to Meghan Markle's wedding dress that was in the shop window, this was sold out and within two weeks and that's that.

When we got to my rail it seemed there wasnt that much in terms and options, and considering three out of four of the dresses I had seen online and wanted to try on weren't available, I wasn't too hopeful but I used this as an opportunity to try on a dress in each style.

You have a four dress try on maximum which seems like it wouldn't be enough but for an first bridal appointment turned out to be perfect. Anything above four dresses for your first time in hindsight would have been way too overwhelming if I'm honest with myself.

So knowing I could pick four dresses I decided to try something in each style. Ballgown with sleeves (my preferred style of choice), A Line, fitted (mermaid), and another ballgown but with off the shoulder straps. I didn't try on any sheaths because there were none in my size but also it felt too far from what I wanted.

Once we picked the dress it was explained that the way it worked we would come back in an hour. You see because it's no appointment, it means that the stylists work with brides on a sort of rolling system. While one bride gets welcomed and makes selections, another bride is trying dresses on with another stylist. It's not a perfect system but we weren't too upset.

Esther took my number and myself and my mum and sisters went to go and have some tea while we waited and there was only one bride in front of me anyway so it didnt seem like the end of the world to wait.

When we came back we were greeted by Esther again and introduced to MC Ruth who ended up being the stylist actually putting dresses on me.

She was such a sweetheart and out the gate asked me how I was and if I had any major concerns which as a bride I think is important but as a plus size bride is even more important because there might be a lot of insecurities and fears at play.

I was blessed to not have any in that particular moment, I was just excited to get trying some on.

As I said they suggested sizing up from your everyday clothes size. So we decided to start with the dress that I liked but they only had in my regular size of 18 (this was star) I wanted to see the off the shoulder style but was also curious to see how small a size 18 in bridal would actually run.

Now we were actually able to get in with not much trouble and I think that honestly had a lot to do with the corest back which gives a lot more room than something with buttons or a zip might have. Though keep in mind if you end up in this situation and loving the dress, you might have to get the panel extended in the back.

I loved the sparkle and the tulle and though the off the shoulder was cute it just wasnt what I envisioned myself walking down the aisle in.

I'm glad I tried it on but it wasnt what I was looking for.

The next two dresses I tried on were the ones completely out of the style I wanted. One satin A Line with with lace embroidery across the waist and then a fitted mermaid dress with rauching across the bodice. Both....were just not what I wanted.

The first A Line dress instantly aged me because of the high neckline and the boxy cut over all. I got in trouble with Pastor J for joking and saying it was like I was a divorcee wanting to get a no fuss dress for a registry. This was probably my super un-PC way of saying it aged me. I felt like someone else entirely in that dress and I honestly couldn't wait to get it off me.

The latter dress was a surprise because in my head I was adamant I wouldn't like a fitted dress for a wedding (though I love them in any other circumstance because I'm here for a bit of body-ody-ody) but I thought I looked great. I just didnt look bridal. In fact it reminded me a lot of one of my costumes from my time in Aladdin and I didn't want to say yes to a dress that reminded me of playing a part.

The last thing you want to feel on you and future bae's special day, is like you're playing a version of yourself you dont feel comfortable with.

NOW the last dress, Kate. That was a contender. It had so many qualities that I had considered. Beautiful lace sleeves, a tulle skirt and the waist line fell in just the place I wanted it to.

When I put it on we all gasped because it was so beautiful. I felt beautiful and bridal and got a bit teary...but I also felt really overwhelmed because as much as I loved it....it just wasn't the one.

I truly felt beautiful and I loved how much my mum and my sisters loved it but in that moment I felt so strongly that it wasnt it. I thought I cant find THE dress is one shopping experience but in hindsight it wasnt what was holding me back, I just didnt feel like myself yet.

It was so so close, close enough for me to put a deposit down, close enough for me to know that if I had to end up tracking it down in my size in a different Wed2B I would....but I felt strong in my gut and my spirit that my search wasn't yet done.

I knew that if I left feeling settled and not second my guess that it wasnt right and that rang true as I got home and looked at the pictures again....the search was still on.

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elizabethrobertajones · 8 years ago

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(1/2) I can literally understand all of your bi-dean meta except for the male siren thing. The siren literally was trying to be the perfect little brother for Dean. I mean the siren literally says "I should be your little brother. Sam. You can't trust him. Not like you can trust me. In fact, I really feel like you should get him outta the way, so we can be brothers. Forever." as well as "No. I gave him what he needed. And it wasn't some bitch in a G-string. It was you. A little brother."

(2/2) I mean I’m NOT against bi-dean, everyone has the right to their own opinions. And A LOT of your analysis is interesting and valid, but if your suggesting that bi-dean is proven through “Sex and Violence.”, I’m lost, cause that seems to have incestuous subtext rather than bi-dean subtext (not that there’s anything wrong with shipping Wincest). I mean Dean could get any girl (and probably guy) if he wanted. The siren revealed what he needed/wanted most was family(specifically Sam)…

(3/2) Cause at this point, tensions were high between the brothers due to Sam’s powers/secrets and Dean needed someone he felt he could trust by his side, a little brother who was devoted to him, some one who understood him (which is why Nick shared the same tastes and interest). I mean I have a little sister and every time she likes something I enjoy, I’m fucking ecstatic. I mean I’ve watched this episode so many times and I fail to see how this is anything but an episode meant to solidify…

(4/2) and push the point that the brothers were not on the same page, and it foreshadowed the future fight and subsequent rift b/t them in “When the Levee Breaks.” I mean y'all say that Nick was a sexual being meant to seduce Dean, but it’s still weird cause he’s trying to being the perfect brother in canon. Sorry this got so long, I’m just curious at why so many people think the male siren has anything to do with bisexuality (of the non-incestuous variety, cuz I can see tht meta 4 wincest ship)

Heya!

I think this is really to do with something I was talking about last night about suggestive subtext, when trying (incoherently) to explain why I didn’t think Dean getting his memories back was textual - I think it can be taken as a strong reading and I wouldn’t disagree because I literally make the same reading, but I think it’s implied canon. Ditto the bi subtext around Larry this latest episode. We all know it’s a mechanical bull with a gendered name, not a human male, but between Dean being told he “had the hots” and the ridiculously pornographic riding sequence, and the general phallic nature of the bar they were in, it all still is overwhelmingly suggestive of queerness.

When it comes to the siren we actually had some more of this suggestiveness this episode which sort of repeats my point I’ll make about it: we only heard Sam say that there could be male sirens. No context, about brothers or even the context of the case for the easiest surface reading that it was just trying to get some hunters off its back by any means necessary. If you’ve forgotten the siren episode or it’s only a dim hazy memory and you sort of connect it to Dean but don’t regularly chug the entirety of canon and then yell about it with strangers online, the episode is not as memorable. So it’s really just posing the point that sirens aren’t all hot chicks, and giving us Dean’s reaction because, right then, he is the casual viewer, and all he knows is the concept that a siren could seduce you as a guy as well, and he just says, “huh.”

Its surface text reading (and I checked this with my mum after watching because she’s admitted she has 0 queer subtext reading skills but is a very smart, character-driven writer who knows how to read a text) is platonic, not remotely sexual, and when I told her that some of the fandom takes it as proof of Wincest, she burst into hysterical laughter at the concept, and explained to me the reading that Dean is just concerned about his brother and it was an obvious exploitable emotional weakness.

(So the rest of this answer is like a more than usual implied “sorry Mum” :P)

To me, this episode works by sorting out several layers and understanding that any reading of it you make has to have at least the surface text pasted firmly on top at all times. It WAS a platonic brother thing, and that’s the only way to wring a successful queer reading out of it, because if you start to suggest too far, you immediately cross over into wincest territory, by suggesting the surface text has the sexual element and that it was actually present in the episode as like, feelings and shit the characters were dealing with.

If you look at it as SUGGESTIVE subtext, accept that the siren is “just” Larry the mechanical bull, then you have exactly the right angle on it for the “huh” of your own.

So, I guess you’re bringing up the meta I wrote about Bobby and 4x06/4x14 - in that case Bobby is the perfect little “huh” angle into it. No one tells him on screen about the brother thing. He definitely knows the siren was presenting as male when it attacked Dean. He killed the thing :P He was the one who sussed it out by checking Nick’s FBI alias out. He knew for half the episode that Dean was being stalked by a male siren, came in, killed it, and aside from some pointed looks from under his hat, didn’t mention it.

There’s a popular text post about the episode that goes:

remember how sam and dean both thought that the siren infected its victims through sex

and when sam walks into the motel room to find dean with nick-the-siren and dean’s totally under the siren’s control sam just

rolls with it

This is the suggestive subtext at work. Nothing here affects the actual text of the episode: it’s about both our interpretation and interpretation within the text of the episode about how this situation might be read. (Obviously this mentions Sam but it goes doubly for Bobby who didn’t see the talky part of the fight, and is never corrected on screen about what he just saw.)

It’s not about wilfully forgetting that the episode has a main text about the brothers, but to see beyond it, within that text. I think it’s probably the causes of the biggest misunderstandings about this episode when you see arguing about it because I think an all or nothing “it’s literally about bisexuality” gets usurped by “I should be your brother” but saying “it’s just about these surface text platonic feelings (because the show would never make it about surface text wincest)” also means you block yourself off from analysing it. The wincest reading of the episode exists in the exact same liminal space of the subtext as the bisexual reading, which means they stumble all over each other and makes the arguments incredibly difficult to untangle because two people can both stand there pulling on the arms of the same moment arguing it means different things in a way most episodes don’t have when it comes to direct, sexual subtextual readings. (e.g the Dean & pie/cake subtext if you don’t agree can just be discarded, rather than it being directly suggestive of the completely alternative reading.)

Like, stuff your ears to the other subtext and sail right on past :P (When I did the rewatch I actually did essentially lash myself to the mast and demand to hear the song while obviously letting the ship sail to the proper place without getting dashed on the rocks, and I think it’s compelling but not my subtext and most importantly, since I read 0% of other episodes as having overt Wincest readings but many many episodes as having overt bi!Dean readings, I’m utterly secure in literally watching the siren episode and picking out the Wincest subtext and being like “yeah okay then”)

If you don’t assume that the show is saying anything profound about Wincest, though, and the “i should be your brother” is just a deflection away from overt sexual readings, it’s much more interesting for the bi Dean subtext. An example I’ve compared it to before is in 2x03, which follows a very similar emotional pattern to this episode with Dean and Gordon. Before Sam and Dean fight, we’ve seen Dean get VERY buddy buddy with Gordon, and there’s a wealth of suggestive subtext in their very brief interactions since they bond alarmingly fast at a bar, thirdwheeling Sam, and that’s immediately got hook up connotations. When Sam confronts Dean he has a sort of “I know what this is about” moment and there’s a real “Oh shit he’s going to tell Dean he’s crushing on Gordon and his judgement is impaired” moment, before Sam tells him it’s because Dean misses John and is filling the gap. I do not think the suggestiveness of Gordon and Dean’s interactions suggests that Dean had the hots for John, just like I carry on not thinking that when Crowley starts his official seduction in 9x11 comparing himself to John, or later in 10x01, to Sam.

Once I’ve got a surface reading and the deflection and the way it was read in the aftermath (yeah we’re working backwards through the episode here :P) then there’s a kind of solid place of understanding my own interpretation to examine the rest of it.

There’s this article which would be kind of pointless as evidence in other cases of actor commentary on the story because PR is not showrunning, etc, and we can’t really depend on them to answer with a proper understanding of what WE are listening out for, or what the show has crafted around their understanding, but in this one when we’re looking at suggestiveness is fascinating:

http://elizabethrobertajones.tumblr.com/post/147614438213/bluestar86-findmyjaffa-mishabethyname

“yeah, at that point I thought he should be ambiguously sexual. As an FBI agent he was a guys guy, but this creature wasn’t a guy or a girl. I tried to find something in between and enjoyed having control over these boys in a sexual way”

This is not describing anything between Sam and Dean, but how the actor played it between himself and them - he saw the siren at work, as using sexuality as part of its control. This reading applies to the entire episode, with all the cases of the siren at work, but obviously those were all “hot chick” siren moments, and so exerting control over the men was a given that it had been using a strip club full of female dancers as the lure to find them, so they’d be understandably into hot women. Which means the overt reading of sexuality is oh so much easier to make and credit and honestly having him say even this much about it is pretty dramatic, though of course as a killed-off one time character, he’s got a lot more freedom to chat about the process and admit to playing up sexuality in a room with 3 male actors.

I’m just going to grab my laughing from the rewatch I did for the next point, about the gap between Nick commenting that he was the siren and had trapped Dean, and the brother line:

That glorious, glorious moment of floating amazement where the it-was-a-actual-legit-seduction text peaks, and you’re allowed a moment from which most bi Dean peeps never recovered. (There’s a three strikes and you’re out policy here: Playthings, this, Dr Sexy. :P)

Because of course, whatever comes out Nick’s weasely mouth once I press play again, the question has been asked. The idea has been planted. It doesn’t matter what they say after this even setting aside all the logic of siren lore explained in the episode or any of the other circumstantial stuff which leads me to my text of the episode conclusion this is a bi Dean episode through and through.

They gave Dean a male siren and gave us these few seconds to let us reflect on that in its pure, this-was-a-seduction in the main text of the episode moment. There’s a level outside the text here where they set this all up, and threw this at us, and handled it in such a way as to leave it open to going on 7 years of fandom arguments about what interpretation was the correct one of the 3 on the table. This is the thing about these fandom arguments: when it comes to people trying to tell those who see Dean as bi that they’re making it up or something, or putting it into the text themselves, the response is usually, no, we’ve got it from the show. Even if you immediately go along with one of the other 2 alternatives (it was platonic all along despite the siren’s sexually charged MO: it was about a sexual proxy for Sam all along despite the fact the siren textually does not have to replace like for like objects of affection) THIS MOMENT before we know it’s officially about Sam, the show is textually letting you think about it for 3 seconds in a deadly serious context.

It’s like 2:30am I need to stop waxing on about this but seriously this fucking moment.

http://elizabethrobertajones.tumblr.com/post/125513601548/spn-hellatus-rewatch-4x14-or-honestly-this

If I ever try to explain to myself WHY this episode is bi Dean, it’s all resting first and foremost on those few seconds of screen time, because in that point, no take-back has been offered. Knowing there IS a take-back a second later doesn’t actually detract from the raw suggestiveness of this moment, which let us think, if we picked up on it immediately, that Dean had a male siren and had been seduced just like all the men and their “hot chicks”. It allows a whole moment where it seems like the show is telling us that Dean is *just* into men and the siren managed to snare him that way by catching him unawares. After all, Sam and Dean are looking for a siren-cum-stripper so getting in under their noses would be important. Dean didn’t trust Cara because she was female despite her being in a generally more socially accepted job, and she was used as a deliberate false lead by Nick (by planting the flowers) AND the show to imply that someone in their general vicinity that they’d been having a thing with that episode could be the siren. Sam’s new female character hook up was not, in fact the siren. Dean’s new male friend WAS. Admittedly it’s a lot of thinking to do in 3 seconds but if you’ve been waiting for the blow to fall that the siren has been worming its way in romantically as Cara, and going along with the surface text of the episode so far, then the instinctive “wait WHAT” is enough to do the work here before the show comes back out of slow mo and carries on like usual, establishing a nice safe cushion-y layer of no homo.

The show DOES however offer its own reading on TOP of the no homo, within the episode, to make it absolutely unequivocally clear there’s a “no incest” reading too - the surface text is EXTREMELY fragile this episode and they do a lot of hard work and backpedalling to try and maintain the fragile surface tension, so, still working backwards through the episode, we get to this:

DEANSo whatever floats the guy’s boat, that’s what they look like?

SAMYeah. You see, sirens can read minds. They see what you want most and then they can kinda, like, cloak themselves. You know, like an illusion.

Cut to the siren seducing the next dude and cue the sweet relief of the subtext that shatters the first interpretation offered by the subtext so far. Sam n Dean have had their relationship portrayed a certain way (overtly: the lying and ongoing season 4 angst, subtextually, a little odd framing and more stray comments beyond the norm) and the episode will come down about said relationship, but this random bloke is the key to what happens next.

Siren:

Disappointed mom and Jesus judging this guy:

The siren emphasises not that she’s a sexual rival (although we don’t know if that guy has Oedipal issues) but mentions that she is a sink on his time and an anchor stopping him from running away with them to be alone together forever and ever and ever, which, with their line about him not sticking her in a care home yet, suggest that she is ill and frail enough to be a full-time job for the guy, much like Dean is stuck with Sam as part of their full-time job and ongoing “look after Sammy” mentality.

So before Nick ever shows up it’s clearly shown that “floats the boat” has a surface level disconnect to the target of murder (and it’s just that statistically the siren is going after mostly hetero dudes with wives, given where they pick the men up and how lends itself to the typical MO). This scene is obviously the “lol no incest” for the end of the episode once the siren tries to drive them apart. […] Both sexualised interpretations live on: the massive logic leap to say “yeah well what if there were Oedipal undertones to this relationship?” which is a headcanon you can float which will mean the siren can still get Dean for that reason, but at this point, the main text of the episode becomes: “the siren will use sexuality to seduce the man, but the target closest to the man that will be the victim is that of unfortunate proximity, not necessarily a sexual rival to the siren.” And therefore, until the reveal after Dean drinks from the flask, we have a long stretch of episode where Nick is main-text seducing Dean with no argument, and the only counter-argument offered is Nick’s own words.

[…]

DEANWait, he killed his mom?

SAMThe woman he was closest to.

Dean’s thoughts go there. Sam shrugs it off, having either not noticed this is weird because new info makes sense to him, or he’s already worked this one through and come to the realisation the siren’s pattern isn’t strictly sexual or that this was a thing but he’s not going to judge. :P So we have two conflicting interpretations at work here; Sam’s chill attitude which surface level suggests there was nothing odd about it, and Dean’s ‘ugh wait but with the information I had available to me I have come to an incredibly awkward realisation!’ tone of voice. (And the subtextually buried one contradicted by the main text of Sam’s dialogue where it is also possible he assumes like Dean this was incest but that it isn’t weird/gross enough for comment.) Sam is implied to be ahead and be offering a rational explanation for this to Dean, i.e. wow that was an unfortunate interpretation, Dean! Fortunately, I, a better-informed individual who has had more information to work with than you before we started this conversation, have come up with a rational alternate explanation which does not involve incest!

This one particular death has pretty much the whole episode riding on it when it comes to interpretation because it is used as the way to confirm non-incestuous relationship replacement with the siren (which along with the siren still showing sexual control over Sam and Dean when he has them under his control backs up the way it seduces the man and says they should run off together romantically - Nick also makes them fight in order to be in love with one of them ~forever~ (a.k.a until the spell wears off and the survivor comes to his senses and probably kills himself over what he did)) - of course because despite the focus on the mother, the man still sleeps with the siren and it’s still framed as a romantic/sexual seduction to get him to the point of murder. The sexual element persisting after the siren says “I should be your brother” is a point I’ll get to better in a minute when I recap the conclusion from my rewatch but does essentially give you the choice of reading that he was talking crap there :P

There’s also the implication of the empty beds/back and forth of the episode, where Sam and Dean’s time management parallels back and forth. There’s suggestive subtext here between Dean and Nick because Sam has wall-banging sex with Cara, and their part of the story is directly back and forthing with Dean and Nick - we have some serious gaps in time, and when Sam returns to the room just before the fight, Nick and Dean are waiting, on those neatly made beds that seem to see no action. I don’t think they slept together. BUT the suggestiveness is right there and people have commented on it and picked it up, so it’s a valid part of the subtextual layer.

Here’s the conclusions I came to in my rewatch:

Aw, Nick, no. We were having so much fun.

MUNROEOr it could be her saliva… You really should have wiped the lip of that thing before you drank from it, Dean. I should be your little brother. Sam. You can’t trust him. Not like you can trust me. In fact, I really feel like you should get him outtta the way, so we can be brothers. Forever.

DEANYeah. Yeah, you’re right.

So, what’s left on the table?

Completely valid if out of left field for the episode’s subtext alternate reading of Dean as somewhere on the Aro spectrum so the siren doesn’t affect him at all romantically, and goes for filling the emotional void it creates from a different angle (several season 3 moments imply Dean has a void in himself for romantic love as emphatically distinct from his need for Sam, but I’m pretty sure I clocked them all coming from Sera as an ongoing subtext about Lisa as endgame, including foreshadowing of what happened with Lisa in the long run when Gamble got to write that full arc, so you could argue A: it’s all from one source as with the many contradictory writer impressions of Dean’s sexual/romantic identity, and B: it wasn’t even as straightforward as that even when she was implying it existed, as that relationship eventually wrecked itself upon the shores of the brotherly bond too, by her pen).

The interpretation that this was just about Sam, platonically, because this is his closest relationship, and the siren, recognising he was a hunter, needed to get to him fast (the other victims took a lot of softening up and a hefty blow to their bank accounts first because this is clearly how the siren makes a living: like the shifters it doesn’t need to kill to eat, just for fun, using its powers for personal benefit and amusement) and so it took an alternate approach to get under his skin in a day using the available tools: Dean is all fucked up about Sam’s secrets and sneaking around talking to Ruby and being a monster and so on, creating an ideal weak spot to get at him: Nick creates an uncomplicated ideal other human for Dean to adopt as a brother in the shortest time possible, because he fully intends just to make the hunters kill each other/themselves on realising what they did and leg it out of town before anyone comes to finish him off and so to Nick the sexual side of it is an unnecessary complication to tidying up the situation.

As above, but the wincest reading, with the siren’s sexually charged MO included despite the only proxy-kiss because of all the subtextual implications and the apparent links between Nick and Sam.

As point 2 again, but with the siren’s sexually charged MO still counting in the background of why Nick, because Dean’s repressed bisexuality made him a double easy target. Dean would not suspect the dude, while thinking he was hunting a stripper, and yet the siren’s MO still works on him as Dean’s “float the boat” umbrella is very wide. The “brother” thing goes back to the main text platonic reasons, and Nick just needs to say something to get Dean on his side that’s still broadly in character for Dean (like, he would not have just magically got through his whole gay panic in that moment: the other victims were all aware of who they were and what they wanted throughout [see also: the first man they interviewed at the start]: part of Dean’s horror in this moment is probably realising the siren affected him AS Nick and having the same moment of wondering about himself before Nick’s reassuring words ease him along - oh, this is just about Sam). So in this case Nick finds it easier to go for the surface reasons Dean was emotionally vulnerable with the emphasis on his lack of trust in Sam, because Dean IS emotionally vulnerable in his most important relationship, and creates an ideal other person is someone who represents Sam just enough to show he fits the emotional void, but is sufficiently different enough (fun, common traits and interests to Dean, trustworthy) to count as a separate identity to Sam (because Dean does have a ton of issues which do not necessarily have to be incestuous but can be to do with the most important relationship in his life having an overbearing effect on everything he does and the way he relates to other people, as constantly shown elsewhere without demanding we pay attention to the alternative reading unless the viewer is inclined to like it and look for it).

And I am aware that after talking about how the incest subtext takes the most leaps along the way, it’s the bisexuality argument which, by being debunked by platonic bros main text, gets relegated to the back seat, now needs a strong counter-argument to its own “debunking”, while the main text is more compatible to the other subtext’s conclusions.

This is why there are fights. :P

Obviously I choose to believe the very careful mental meanderings that back up my reading that there is a suggestive element to the episode that can imply Dean’s bisexuality without having to credit that the sexual element includes a wincest reading, and as I said, this is because the episode is highly suggestive, but everything it tries to tell us in text is broadly the platonic bros reading, so it is left to choice, favoured interpretation, emotional preference, whatever, to pick out what you want. There’s a valid in-text suggestion that the siren does NOT work incestuously even when the most important relationship is a family one, and if you use these as the guidelines, the rest of the suggestiveness about the sexual elements can just be read as the fact that Dean was into Nick as a person rather than having been attracted to him because he reminded him of Sam.

Although honestly it really just comes down to part 23346346 of infinity under the same heading as:

why I’m on the dean is bi train:

we’d never get a two minute montage of sam “riding larry.”

http://elizabethrobertajones.tumblr.com/post/157196244593/goodfemalecharacters-why-im-on-the-dean-is-bi

#Asks #4x14 #references to #12x11 #Dean is bi #long post for ts #incest for ts #suicide mention cw

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