#and apparently that just meant one and done and there was no logical reason to redo it

[imhoser]

One of the most important life lessons you could learn from this moment is that people will not uphold social rules when to them, you’ve already disobeyed the rule in principle. And by principle I mean in the way you’ve structured your argument.

Saying cis women are the equivalent to cis men is wrong in principle, not by argument structure, but in regard to logical reasoning. It’s especially indicative of the tunnel vision you’ve acquired when to the cis women you’re trying to critique here…you are one as well. There is no “trans” or “cis” to me. You saying “well I don’t believe this” doesn’t change the fact that I do believe this.

For example, someone saying they believe in the flat earth is useless if that person is trying to prove that the earth isn’t spherical. It serves no purpose. You stating what you believe is true will not convince me. You have to go beneath the argument and try to argue your point through logical principles, aka logical rules. My logical rule is simple: what is done to a human body does not negate the fact that was not who they were originally. Plastic surgery doesn’t change chromosomes, its results are not heritable.

There’s another term for misogyny, it’s called sexism. The prefix “sex” wasn’t just added in for fun. It was a word meant to describe the categorization and subjugation of females on the basis of their sex. You believing that it isn’t real doesn’t mean anything to me. And yes, you cannot believe sexism is real while saying that women are not oppressed based on their sex. You can’t have it both ways. Misogyny is sex based. This is exactly how all transwomen benefit from privilege until, supposedly, they transition. But to me I define it with a different term, the word is homophobia. The hatred of effeminate men is innately tied to homophobia and that is a better explanation.

After all, the murder of transwomen often occurs when their murderer feels angst about him apparently being gay for having sex with them. How could transphobia be the problem in that scenario when it was the possibility of him being gay is what set him off? Because apparently, in your world, if that transwoman is truly a woman, then the murder only occurs out of a delusion, where the murderer denies reality. But nobody frames it in that way…because the argument doesn’t work, because we all subconsciously recognize what transwomen are despite all the moral flagellation that people partake in to deny reality.

This is why you will fail to convince me. It’s because one, I already know your arguments, and two, I have alternate explanations for the things that you believe will contradict my belief system. But it doesn’t. I just believe in different methods of reasoning.

You should be happy that someone is telling you this now. This is something that would’ve made my life much easier if I heard it when I was a teenager. Being able to understand why someone believes so and so is the first step in countering their arguments. But TRAs fail in this because their movement works by isolating themselves from their critics, saying that any critique is bigotry, but that is not a law of physics. The fact that people adhere to that principle, isolating themselves from people who disagree with them as if it’s a law of reality that those people are just “bigoted,” should be enough to raise some red flags.

And final thing, moralizing doesn’t work on me. You won’t make me feel bad. I feel no guilt.

A cis woman is not any better or worse than a cis man,

stop pretending otherwise.

Stop trying to convince me that I'm somehow in community with you because your a vaginagirl or a fucking bleeder,

I don't care--whatever silly thing you use to define your womanhood.

I am not a part of your 'sex class',

we are not a community.

I am not your sister.

[the-sleepy-conductor]

Idk if this technically counts as a vent or something but this totally killed my mood today

Me: I want to get tested for ADHD, I always feel like I'm thinking a thousand things a minute and I can't sit still or focus and it takes at least an hour minimum to fall asleep every night and I wake up 2-6 times on average

Doctor: Oh that's just your anxiety

Me: No, actually, I've been doing really well in terms of anxiety, I've been managing it well and having fewer panic attacks each month. This has to be something else, it's affecting how I function daily

Doctor: Well it sounds to me like you're just anxious, your anxiety is spiking

Me: I literally cannot focus on ANYTHING and it's affecting how I get tasks done at work, I always fidget constantly, not to mention half the time I don't even know I'm fidgeting and it drives my family and coworkers up a wall, I have to pace around and talk to myself in order to think clearly without getting distracted, I forget to eat- sometimes for days on end, and I never know when to start or stop talking in a conversation

Doctor: Yeah that's your anxiety

Me: Like I said, I've been managing my anxiety really well and I'm always working to step outside of my comfort zone. I'm not having as many panic attacks as I did before, my heart palpitations have stopped, and I no longer feel constantly stressed

Doctor: Ok so since your anxiety is really bad right now I'm gonna increase your dosage for your medication

Me: Wait no-

Doctor: And I'm gonna have you do some anxiety questionnaires too, see you in a month :)

[ananke-xiii]

More on the power of resurrection as the "apple of discord": Billie won theory.

So. Chuck vs Billie, it's all about the preservation of the natural order. Now if you ask me what "natural order" means in Supernatural I wouldn't really know how to answer. I think by that they meant a concept akin to that of metaphysical necessity, of a causality that's prior to space and time. However, Chuck has subdued the Moirai as we know from s6 and s15 and he controls life, death and space and time. Therefore, the natural order seems to be Chuck himself. Or he definitely thinks he is but he's really not 'cause, as it turns out, it doesn't really matter if Chuck exists as God, anybody who can contain God's power can become God. Just like any reaper who dies can become Death in case Death is absent. In other words, "Death" and "God" are just "roles" that virtually anybody with sufficient power and in the right circumnstances could play.

In this respect, Chuck is more powerful than Death because he can control space and time as he pleases while Billie can't. I mean, it appears on Supernatural that techinically Billie can manipulate space and time but her issue is precisely that: if you start manipulating space and time Death ultimately really means nothing since it's a concept that's intrinsically connected to these notions.

This is why, I think, resurrection is the core problem in the ultimate power struggle, i.e. God vs Death. As a concept, it defies the rules of Time. If resurrection can happen, then time is no longer irreversible and if time can be reversed then Death doesn't really need to exist. But apparently in Supernatural necessity is the ultimate force and Billie wants to protect that, she wants to protect the role of Death in the story. Surprisingly, in this view I find Chuck a litte bit more fascinating because he's not only playing around with his toys, he's actually messing with Necessity itself. And no smart God would have done that 'cause it only ends one way: a recknoning.

So following this probably unsteady logic, in the end Billie won. Because what did she want? In the words of the Shadow:

The Shadow: Become "New God." Classic narcissist, right? She's all tingly for the rules, the good-old days. [...] Everyone back to where they belong... realities, dimensions, graves. What should be dead dies, angels off Earth, demons back to Hell, and I go back to sleep.

It's always, always about "the good-old days" (insert teary gif from The Office's last episode).

She didn't get to become the "New God" because she made the same mistake as Chuck: inserted herself in the story, thought she could use Jack and focused all her attention on Dean Winchester without realizing who her real enemy was (as I've previously said, it's totally Castiel. It's always Castiel, Castiel must die die die for the story to end).

But if what mattered to her, power aside, if the reason why she wanted to become god was because she didn't want anybody to interfere with the natural order AND if it doesn't matter who Death and God are as long as they stay hands-off... then Billie totally won in the end.

And she won because Castiel died and didn't resurrect (more or less, he's somewhere in Heaven probably but we don't see him. Seeing is crucial in resurrection stories: if we don't see him he might as well be dead to us). Dean died and asked not to be resurrected (incidentally I should talk about how Billie's values align with Dean's but not today). Sam eventually dies too and Jack is... somewhere, sometime, being God all alone and in everything but without interfering with Necessity (and I should also talk about what the fuck they mean when Jack says "[people] just need to know that I'm already a part of them and to trust in that". LOL what people and what trust? And why should they care? Are these the same "people" Chuck didn't give a shit about? Chuck was already a hands-off type of God, hell, he was the absent father, right? Not just to the Winchesters and the Angels, no, he was humanity's absent father. Chuck self-inserted into the story just to play with his two toys, this has nothing to do with "people". They clearly didn't know how to end the show and tried to pull the mysticism card like they did in S11 but with worse results).

Order is indeed preserved. Time as we know it is safe. Still, there are monsters and Heaven and maybe even Hell, Purgatory and the Empty. God exists but doesn't interfere. Most importantly, Death has no obstacle and can do her job just fine. Everything in its place and a place for everything.

The universe is indeed many things. And sometimes it is poetic (justice).

[samijey]

broke my promise to myself and actually watched the jey/gunther match and let me tell you... whoever booked that finish wanted jey to look like an idiot. mega rant under the cut which you should honestly read im not your mama but you should read it

he splashes gunther after getting dominated for 80% of the match and an (honestly underwhelming) spear and we're meant to believe the +2yr champion who's beaten virtually everyone on the roster (including drew who recently beat jey TWICE) was about to be defeated right there?......okay............ but it gets worse

when the referee (for no real good reason) stops the count at 2 after jimmy rings the bell, jey "forgets" about gunther and turns his back to him, allowing gunther to get back up almost IMMEDIATELY (remember we were meant to think he was about to be beaten 5 seconds earlier) yet jey quickly superkicks him BUT THEN decides to dive at jimmy on the outside instead of going directly for another splash (girl help) so ofc when he does go for the splash, gunther gets the knees up, and to add a cherry on top of this shit sunday, pins jey right there after performing no extra offense - doesn't even roll him up, jey just lies there flat on his back and gets pinned (while michael cole screams "GUNTHER ROLLS UP JEY USO" to make me even more mad, apparently, as zero actual rolling takes place in the ring - just a leg hook & weight on the shoulders combo... and not a particularly vicious one either) I just ??????

and of-fucking-course as the TV feed gets cut, cue cody and punk who come out all smiles ready to do the usual fanservice routine for the live crowd and suddenly jey is mostly done selling what just happened and is smiling along with whatever you wanna call it - sending the crowd home happy?? since when did that become mandatory for broadcast shows??? why can't emotionally devastating moments count just as much when it comes to delivering a satisfying ending to the live crowd??? are you telling me they couldnt have had jey walk to the back WHILE SELLING the heartbreak/frustration of what happened and THEN send cody out to do the fanservice thing??? fuck maintaining suspension of disbelief I guess - you can't even argue that "it's fine it was just a treat for the live crowd" because WWE has posted the footage everywhere and promoted it heavily.

imagine if after the camera stopped rolling at last year's rumble, sami had got up, undone kevin's handcuffs and they both hugged and cut a cheerful promo at the crowd - everyone would've blasted wwe for undermining the impact of that finish and not letting the moment breathe.

here's another, even more similar example - remember what happened after summerslam when jimmy attacked jey? he sold the devastation of the moment all the way until he exited the arena, so why is this any different? because it's "just" TV and not a PPV? nah, i'll tell you why: because wwe does not give a shit about this current version of jey's character - he's there to spew the same catchphrase 100x an hour (because it sells merch and pops the crowd let's be honest), display a grand total of two personality traits, and rub his popularity off onto the people wwe actually consider stars

for comparison - you cannot tell me that if it was cody in this position (just lost an important match thanks to the most important person in his life + got attacked by them on top of it) wwe wouldn't have had him look devastated or cut an emotional, tearful promo that would've then been posted and promoted everywhere

"chill, it's not that serious" my apologies for wanting something i love (and KNOW can be so much better with minimal effort) to have a basic level of logic and thought put into it, it's not like wrestling booking is rocket science and we know wwe is NOT incapable of actually delivering good stuff 🤷??? the standards for this show are so damn low and seeing no one else be bothered by it does my fucking head in ouch ouch wheres the aspirin bye

[cbrownjc]

As an older fan, I’m starting to get some major Sherlock-vibes from the show, in the sense that fans are coming up with all these big-brained theories to explain weak writing that we have to have faith will come to fruition in some future season. Why make the change to Lestat saving Louis? Why is Louis seemingly stronger than Armand?  Why have the Loustat reunion, only for Louis to leave and challenge the entire vampire world (despite the fact that he’s apparently in a better place mentally-speaking)? Why publish under Daniel’s name, when that would clearly paint a target on his back, especially now that he’s a vampire? What’s going on with Daniel’s eyes?

The whole “spite” thing seems like a clear mis-direct, but with only like 8-ish episodes a season and Dubai-era Devil’s Minion being 100% subtext so far, I don’t think the writing team can do DM justice. All the inconsistencies seem like they’re being written off because it’s the unreliable narrator show, when they’re actually just plot holes.

Like…I 100% think the writing team forgot makers can’t telepathically talk to their fledglings, and that’s why they had to add in the throwaway line of Lestat actually whispering to Louis in 1x02. There was no hidden reason we were meant to find, it was just inconsistent internal logic justified because Louis can’t remember anything correctly.

IDK. I don’t want to be a downer, but a lot of my hype for the show just kinda fizzled out with the finale. I'm still gonna watch S3, but I think I'm just gonna wait til the whole thing comes out this time.

Hi!

So I never watched Sherlock nor was every in that fandom, though I did hear about some things after the fact. So I can't compare it to that fandom. But I can compare things to another book series that was being adapted fandom I was in which was Game of Thrones. And I think wrt things we are at least nowhere near that level of things and theorising. Yet.

Maybe because, unlike ASOIAF all the VC books are written and done. So that's a plus.

And see, the thing is? I can actually see a lot of methods to the madness of some of the things you've listed. Especially given the nature of how the story in the show is told through POVs. Where the issue comes into it is not ever knowing if what you are seeing is true, false, or just an interpretation of the truth -- as in Louis' POV of the play-trial rehearsal.

And I'd really like to know if how they ended this season is how they plan to end every season when a full book has been adapted? Something that wraps up the main character arc and story, but just leaves a host of other questions that, if we weren't getting a Season 3, would have never been answered. And who knows if they will all be answered in Season 3? As far as Devil's Minion goes, or Armand himself, I'm not expecting it to be now, given that Season 3 is The Vampire Lestat adaptation and Armand is a straight-up villain/antagonist in that book and Daniel doesn't appear in it at all, so anything we get with him will be extra anyway.

Now, as to whether Rolin Jones and the writers have a plan, Rolin says he pitched an 8-Season (or so) Arc to AMC before he was given the show to run. So at the moment? That is the only solid thing we have to go on right now wrt if there actually IS a play or not for the show.

But see (and oh boy, please forgive me as am I about to go into a big digression here), plotting a TV show is much harder to do than a book or a movie. TV writing is way more organic given that unforeseen circumstances can occur that you've never planned for when you go into a new season of TV production. Such as the studio asking you to split the first book you're adapting into 2 seasons instead of one, leaving you with only a month to rewrite the scripts. Or, a writer's strike and then an actors' strike a few weeks later, delaying production for months. Both of which happened to IWTV wrt Season 1 and then Season 2.

So organic things beyond the show's control are why it is much harder to plan out every little detail of a TV show in advance over multiple seasons. Take another AMC show, Breaking Bad. It's known that Season 2 of that show was intricately plotted out in advance but then, after that, the writers plotted and wrote the rest of the show as things came along for the remaining seasons, with no grand design to it -- even though the creator of the show, Vince Gilligan, knew way in advance how the show was going to end. And the show was able to get there, to that ending, without having a meticulous plan over seasons on how to do so.

I mean, the character of Jesse on Breaking Bad was originally supposed to die at the end of the first season. But instead, he lived through the whole damn thing. That was not planned at all.

And I think that might very well be the situation we have going here wrt IWTV. I think there are larger things they already know in advance about the show -- which books out of all of them will adapted into full stories vs which will only get references. Which characters in the show will make it into the show as full characters vs which characters will either be cut or combined with other existing characters (as Sam Ried revealed in his interview with Autumn Brown that that is going to happen -- that some characters will be combined with others). And what end point they want each of the main four characters -- Louis, Lestat, Armadn, and Daniel -- to be at when they get to at least Season 8. (If not Season 10, which is what AMC wants, 10 seasons). I think those are things Rolin and the writers very much know.

But I don't think the show has every single little detail plotted out for every little thing wrt how they are going to get to certain things. Not super far in advance at any rate.

I do think they'll purposefully put in seeds for later -- that they very much know they are going to need later -- though I think at most they do it one season ahead if it's a little thing. I very much do think that is what the things from episodes 1x02 and 1x03 very much were, since Season 1 and 2 were supposed to just be one season originally. Or the fight in 1x05 only being shown from Claudia's POV. I think that was also deliberate and they are very much planning on visiting it once again in Season 3, as they did in Season 2.

But I also think there are some things the show has not plotted way in advance and only figured out when they are writing that particular episode. Or maybe just decided to do that season as they were writing it, and not before then. Just like how almost every other TV show works, even ones that might very well know the ending they are working toward.

So I in no way think the show has figured and plotted out every single moment and beat of Armand and Daniel's relationship. Why? Not only because much of it happened in the past -- which yes I very much still think it did -- which covers 12 years of time, but because if you look at this clip, Rolin Jones kind of hints that they haven't plotted it out completely point for point even though there are some things they've thought and figured out:

video credit: Rei Gorrei on Twitter

So as far as Devil's Minion goes, I think Rolin and Co -- mostly Rolin -- has an endpoint for it in mind. But how they get to that endpoint is probably not planned out to the letter, super far in advance. And something they very likely just come up with as they are writing that particular season. At most? I'd say they've put things in this season that will be relevant next season and that's it.

So, I'm not going to say they can't do it justice. Not yet. I frankly don't have enough data to call that in a yes or no fashion since we haven't seen anything adapted from it aside from the 3-4 days Daniel spent in a cage, which is just the very start of how Devil's Minion begins. Basically one or two paragraphs. That's all they've really adapted when it comes to it at the moment.

And hey, it's okay if you feel down about all of this. If it helps, I'd say try and take a pragmatic approach to the show season by season, and if you feel it's better to binge it than watch it episode by episode for a time, that's good too. This is going to be a long journey after all.

[kazamajun]

Did Kazumi want Kazuya killed?

I like Kazumi a lot as a character. Her design and music themes are bangers. One thing just always bothered me though, how she seemingly loved Kazuya but then requested that Akuma kill him back when he was only five years old. So I did a little investigating to try and make sense of it, rewatching both the story mode and intros and old trailers, and what I turned up was quite interesting.

Evidence for:

Akuma's pov flashback where Kazumi says "Kill him for me... And also... Kazuya..."

Akuma seems to believe it's what she wanted, and is how he interpreted the promise to Kazumi.

Evidence against:

The wording and phrasing is questionable. "Kill him" ... "and also" - why not just say "kill them" if she meant both? Additionally, ellipses are most often used to indicate omissions of words. What is being cut out?

This is perhaps answered where we get a more fleshed out version of the scene, like the 2014 SDCC trailer. The same footage is also in Japanese here, if you'd rather spare yourself the English dub. Transcription of dialogue: "If I die, if I can't stop Heihachi, then you must do it for me." "Kazuya? That boy is still too young. And Heihachi will soon realize that he was born with my powers. Heihachi is more powerful than you realize. Who knows what Heihachi will do to Kazuya or to countless others? It is up to me. I must stop Heihachi." "Even if this power consumes me and kills me in the process." No mention of killing Kazuya, in fact she seems concerned for his welfare. Why worry about him like this if she's asking for him to be killed? Evo 2014 reveal trailer transcription: "You're here. That must mean the time has come. Kazuya? I must stop him. I must stop Heihachi. By now I'm sure that Heihachi has realized he was born with my powers." Similar to the SDCC one, just shorter, as this one came out first. And again the same implication that she's worried about Kazuya's fate. From the PS4 opening cinematic: "My beloved Heihachi will inevitably engulf the world in war and destruction resulting in the loss of many innocent lives." No Kazuya mention at all.

Kazuya himself does not seem to believe it. He calls it absurd and laughs, and in the final confrontation with Heihachi, Kazumi's theme plays towards the end of this whole sequence. Also while not in the story mode; in the opening cinematic (and also in the trailers linked above) Kazuya says "You killed my mother!" before their fight, indicating that he is avenging her.

Kazumi has a reason for wanting Heihachi dead. The Hachijos sent her there as a 'sleeper agent' of sorts to take Heihachi out if he became a threat to the world, which he does after killing Jinpachi and taking control of the Zaibatsu. Kazuya, being a five year old, is no such threat obviously. It does not make any logical sense. If the Hachijos were in the habit of killing their own offspring, their lineage wouldn't go far. And if him being Heihachi's son was the concern, why even have him? Additionally, she genuinely loved Kazuya, something even Heihachi admits. Either way, a young child does not fit the profile of the 'scum' that the Hachijo apparently try to wipe out.

Miscellaneous:

Heihachi seems not to believe it initially; although his reason for questioning it is purely the passage of time as Akuma waited over 40 years to fulfill this promise.

A potential thought as to why Kazuya was perhaps not mentioned as one of Akuma's targets in the other cinematics occurred to me as perhaps it being a plot point that they wanted to keep under wraps, but this was easily debunked by the story trailer a few months before the console release, showing the fight between Kazuya and Akuma. There is also a showdown between them in a 2016 trailer that matches neither of the story mode battles.

If Kazumi thought that Kazuya needed to be killed, she could theoretically have done it herself, easily. After her illness that activated her devil gene, Heihachi believed she was not in control of herself and she supposedly never remembered her attacks on him after she went back to 'normal'. And yet, during those times, her target was only ever Heihachi. If Kazuya was supposedly a threat to be ended too - why did that never happen when she lost control?

Late addition/edit: In Akuma's reveal trailer, the wording is altered again to "And also unfortunately, my dear son Kazuya" but this line is said AFTER Akuma has made the promise to Kazumi to repay his debt. And again, it is vague. Unfortunately Kazuya what? Unlike all the lines re Heihachi, she never actually says he must die. A potential reading of this could be that Kazumi felt Kazuya would be better off dead than suffering whatever Heihachi would do to him -- but then, if the goal was a mercy killing, waiting 40 years after the damage has already been done makes NO sense.

Conclusion:

It is my personal evaluation that Akuma most likely misinterpreted Kazumi's words (or perhaps misremembers them as it's been decades - hence why the dialogue in the flashback is an abrupt and chopped-up handful of words vs the more extensive scene seen elsewhere) and that her wish was for Heihachi to be taken down for the sake of the world, and her son. Akuma, being who he is, would lean towards interpreting any kind of ambiguity as referring to violence and death.

In an out of character sense, the vibe I get is that originally Akuma's hit list was only supposed to be Heihachi but at some point late in development they decided they wanted to have a Kazuya vs Akuma fight added in too hence that no-context bit in the 2016 trailer that doesn't match any scenes in the actual final story; and then the mangled flashback of Akuma's happens in the story mode to facilitate the fights that happen in the final version of the game.

But in an ic sense, Akuma misinterpreting Kazumi seems the most likely to me. I don't think he was deliberately lying, his vibe is sincere enough and he calls her Kazumi-dono which shows great respect. IMO, it's good to remember that characters can be wrong about things sometimes and that just because they believe something that doesn't necessarily mean that it is true.

[twiceeshy]

it's your prize

Read on ao3.

E, Marc/Pedro, kinkmeme prompt fill

Aragon, 2024

In Marc's defense, he really hadn't planned for any of this to happen.

In the offense, he was stone cold sober when he had the world's least impressed twenty year-old pressed into his lap making crude hand gestures. He glanced around and wondered why nobody cared. He supposed Pedro had wormed his way into a comfortable manly friendship with Aleix and Jorge, and this level of physicality wasn't that out of the ordinary for them. Marc wasn't stupid enough to believe that this was some attempt at cultivating a friendship.

"What are you doing?" Marc sighed.

Prodigies had that way about them, when they were still young and impervious. No matter how much they tried to hide it (and Pedro didn't try at all), they were cocky. They carried themselves with the assurance that they had the potential to surpass you, even though it wasn't a foregone conclusion. They were so...fighty. Marc must have been unbearable at this age.

Pedro levelled him a bored stare. "I want to suck you off, what did you think?"

Well, that didn't leave a lot of room for doubt. Marc made a move to shove the younger man off his lap, but they were about equal in size and stubborness.

"You're not even drunk," Marc said incredulously.

"Yeah, 'cos Pol said you were always a good boy growing up," Pedro said, rolling his eyes violently. "I bet you wouldn't fuck a drunk."

First of all, Marc didn't know how to feel about the Espagaros apparently gossiping about him behind his back. Second, what the fuck?

"That's just being decent," he said, wondering where common sense had gone. There were so many ways that unprotected drunken sex with someone new could go wrong.

Pedro made an impatient growl. He had a very expressive face, contorted into a frustrated look that was almost funny. "I am asking. I am willing, I am not drunk, I know your balls are fucking massive. Are you going to let me?"

Put it that way. Logic dictated that if Marc wasn't against the idea, there was no real reason to say no. He didn't have a condom on hand, but he knew he was clean.

He shrugged a shoulder and nudged his chin in the direction of the washrooms, and Pedro got off his lap with a smirk. "Knew you would," he bragged.

Marc led the way, wondering how he got into this. It was a bit disconcerting, being picked by someone so much younger. He started to see parallels that weren't there; think thoughts that weren't warranted. He wondered if it was the start of the end - if he wouldn't inadvertently wander down the path of paranoid insecurity himself in a few years.

He didn't think he would. He had gone to hell and come back, and knew that his time at the top had an expiry. First win in 1043 days - he was on bonus time as it was. Wouldn't have shared the grid with this boy at all if he hadn't earned himself these precious days of extra youth.

Pedro backed them both into an empty stall with overzealous energy, then locked the door behind them and fell to his knees.

The floor was dry, Marc noted gratefully. The toilet didn't smell too strongly of piss.

Marc unzipped his fly and Pedro smiled. It was probably the first thing that Marc had done all night by initiative, and he wondered if it had been the correct thing to do. Maybe if Pedro had to work for everything himself, it would mean less to him.

But his brain jumped to offering, "do you want to?", while gripping his button between his thumb and finger, and now he had made it worse by being collaborative.

Pedro did it efficiently, pulling Marc's briefs and jeans down to his knees in one fell swoop.

There was an imbalance in being seen by someone fully clothed. Marc didn't want to think about Valentino fucking Rossi right now, but Marc had always been under the impression that being on his knees and having a cock in his mouth meant that he had been inherently more vulnerable back then, and he was starting to believe that he had been misguided. There had been something he once held, unknowingly.

Pedro whistled. "Your dick's huge man," he said, stroking the embers of Marc's ego. This was perhaps the pinnacle of compliments from a kid obsessed with dick jokes. Marc was realistic about where he stood - his dick was maybe a little above average considering his height, and somewhat girthier than one might expect, but that was all. Within the realm of normal and better that way, given they had to suit up in tight leathers.

He looked down at Pedro, who angled his eyes up with lids at half-mast and lazy enthusiasm. So different from Marc had been. Thank God he was. If he looked at Marc with hero worship and spoke longingly about his collection of model bikes, Marc would never be able to speak to him again. Hearing "cock" ten times per minute was more tolerable.

Pedro licked the head of his half-hard cock experimentally, then with characteristic impatience, swallowed down as much length as he could. He choked on it, and resumed without pulling out. He had a face particularly suited for this, Marc thought. His face was thin but soft, and his cheeks hollowed easily as he sucked. His soft mouth was partnered with a flexible jaw.

It was warm, tight, wet. The stuff of heaven. And the fact that someone so worthy of respect did it just lent it magnitude. A prodigy on his knees in service. No wonder Valentino let him do it again and again.

Blood rushed to his cock under Pedro's ministrations, and Pedro pulled off to give his judgement. "Your cock is huge, I knew it. Like your big fucking balls. No wonder you won."

And perhaps the world's least impressed twenty year-old could be impressed after all. Marc had to laugh incredulously, both at the wording at the fact that they were in this situation at all.

"Why do you care so much about balls? Mine are normal," he said, refusing to let it go to his head. He put a hand at the back of Pedro's head, and guided his mouth back where it was better used.

"It's your aura of balls," Pedro said, millimeters away from Marc's cock. He stroked said balls admiringly with a hand and watched them tighten. "Fucking huge aura."

Marc laughed again despite himself. But he also knew to be more careful, because where a boy could be impressed, he could be used, then he could be hurt. Marc wasn't angling to replicate Valentino in any way.

Pedro's mouth was perfect. Hot spit overflowed from the corners of his mouth as he swallowed Marc halfway, and it made it better. His teeth scraped before he hid them behind his lip again. He was more enthusiastic than expert. Not a novice, but not someone who had accumulated acumen in it, which was fun. Marc had always been able to do it better - neater and deeper. Best not to tell Pedro that, or he would become a practiced expert in blowjobs and try to corner Marc into another one.

He held his compliments to himself. Pedro kept his eyes open, not openly searching for approval like Marc had, but Marc still guarded himself against showing any. The less this meant to either of them, the better.

Marc fisted the base of his cock where Pedro's mouth couldn't go, and Pedro caught on quickly, replacing Marc's hand with his own. The friction was better this way.

It was easy to come, and better not to drag it out. Pedro only sucked harder then swallowed when Marc warned him, and it was exquisite. He choked again, and it would be so easy to fuck harder, to make a habit of it. It was a fine line that Marc would stay on the right side of.

He didn't offer to get Pedro off. Valentino hadn't either, back in the day. He did one better - invited Marc back to his room and fucked him in the bed and made out with him until they fell asleep. Marc wasn't going to do any of that either, easy though it would be.

Pedro got to his feet and wiped his mouth with the back of his hand. He looked well fucked. His hair was askew, and his cheeks were pink.

Maybe he wanted to be part of a story, the same way Marc had been entrenched in Valentino's. Beyond Marc's love had also been a dizzying pride that someone so accomplished wanted him. It was best not to start.

"Not that special to you, huh?" Pedro remarked hoarsely. He looked slightly disappointed, but he didn't look too beat up over it.

"No," Marc said, smiling wryly, turning his head to the side as he shrugged. "Thank you, it was good."

"Ah, it's your prize," Pedro said with a dismissive wave of the hand.

They straightened their clothes out, and Marc allowed Pedro to leave ahead of him. He would go himself when the interval was less suspicious.

He felt a little bit hollow, but he knew that he could sleep off the feeling. Better this way than any other, he told himself.

[tennessoui]

i decided to reread ur foolproof, foolhardy fic, and "“You dropped into my lap about five meters away from both our masters in a very unsoundproofed ship and asked all sultry, Wanna fuck? How could a man say no?”" how WOULD poor master skywalker have responded if baby!obi-wan had done that instead of his long seduction? (maybe not where qui-gon could hear)

fun fact!! one of the original ideas for the last chapter of foolproof foolhardy was to go full-circle with this moment and have them fuck before they talk it out - fuck in the ship "because we should just get it out of our systems" on their way to the mission, a fling obi-wan proposes by dropping into anakin's lap and asking him wanna fuck?

and then after they have rough angry sex, they go do the mission they're assigned and something goes wrong and they talk about their feelings then in a big and dramatic way

but that would have meant like. 3 more chapters at least and the last step of the plan was to "be honest and direct" so i figured i had to make them be honest and direct lol

BUT! obi-wan does the lap sitting and proposition thing twice in the story, both times with vos (the one you quoted and then once in the interlude chapter when vos gently turns him down because he's not going to be a stand-in for anakin skywalker)

and then in the last chapter when he and anakin are kissing, it's referenced again:

He doesn’t think he realized until this moment that there is no need to coax Anakin into anything. He’s already wanted, past all logic and reason. He does not need to play on Anakin’s possessiveness, his anger, his jealousy. All he has to do to be wanted by Anakin Skywalker is to drop into his lap and say please. 

so really 'dropping into his lap and saying please' is sort of padawan obi-wan's MO lol i think master skywalker would have turned scarlet and i think he would have caved but it would make their love story even more complicated if they had slept together before they talked about anything

(aka in a stacy's mom au au, let's say instead of master skywalker comming ahsoka to tell her to come back in the first chapter, he goes to get her and decides to personally escort all padawans back to the temple - not vos though as he is a knight and can choke. ahsoka ends up passed out in her bed and obi-wan is really planning to leave but now it's just him and master skywalker and there's something about the man that makes him seem...approachable right now...willing. it may be the exhaustion around his eyes, it may be because this is the first time they've really been alone together since zygerria, it may be because master skywalker had his hand on his lower back the entire time he escorted him and ahsoka back to the temple, it may be because he caught master skywalker looking at his lips at least once tonight, it may be because obi-wan has had way too much to drink really and anakin's pouring a drink of his own because apparently there's important paperwork he must do and and and and it may be a thousand different things that make obi-wan feel just confident enough to drop into master skywalker's lap and ask him if he wants to fuck around - but they have to be quiet because ahsoka is asleep in the next room

and because neither would be able to just do it once, because they're both still in love with each other, they start sneaking around to do it more. there's no bet, just a lot of guilt. quinlan doesn't know, ahsoka doesn't know, and it turns out in the shadows is a good place to kiss and a bad place to have the conversations they need to have....so they don't have them and they don't have them and they don't have them and obi-wan tries to tell himself this is enough this is more than he deserves, more than he ever thought he'd get and anakin tries to tell himself that this is all he deserves and more than he ever thought he'd get)

[princess-of-the-corner]

Sorry can't seem to stop musing right now >< But on Forged AU.

I feel like a natural place to sort of conclude any given confrontation regarding Ladybug's decisions on Chloe. Would be less on how Ladybug screwed up, or why she had reason to take issue with Chloe.

Though these things & more would definitely come up in the mud flinging.

I think the actual emotional cap off would logically be around the fact that. If Chloe warrants leniency or caretaking despite everything (Which she does) then Marinette probably warrants some as well given that she's been expected to carry this shit for so long.

I don't mean being Guardian, I mean just fighting in general. But then also being the one singled out by Fu. Which may have come with privilege's but also meant things were even more on her now.

She had to be the mature one, she has to be the one with the plan, she has to be the one studying the spells and helping them work. She has to be the one determining who gets a miraculous and hand holding them through using it and then taking it back & managing them. She is the one whose attendance is apparently suffering at school because of hero duties as Adrien is I guess insulated cos of his wealth or he just says his dad called and no one checks?

Worse still, she actually trusts and respects adults, so it doesn't occur to her to question Fu. Because even if she really wants to share identities, or let Alya be a perma Rena. She can't because Fu said not to and he's the responsible, worldly, knowledgeable adult in this situation and she has to respect that.

Basically, she has reason to be cracking under the pressure and not be making great decisions. In the same vein that Chloe has reason to be breaking under abuse and trauma and lashing out.

So I sort of feel any conclusion would be both of them kind of just collapsing against a wall, all screamed and cried out, unable to really hold any anger at the other anymore.

But that's just a thought.

Oh yeah no absolutely like.

Right now Forged focuses a lot on how Ladybug's(and Marinette's) actions hurt Chloé. A lot. And even if, logically, Chloé knows there's probably something bigger going on, it doesn't change the hurt. She's so used to trying so hard and getting rejected again and again that it's difficult to really have it sink in that this was just something else happening that just happened to turn out like it did, that it wasn't an intentional 'fuck you'. And even when she does admit that, she's also done pretending like she isn't being hurt by it, because intentional or not it hurt.

But also yeah just. Marinette is going through her own kinds of hell and is scrambling to figure out a way to get everything together and save the day and not let everyone fucking die. So ofc she's going to make mistakes and lash out and not realize that what she's doing may hurt others and not stop and think about why people react to her decisions the way they do. /She/ knows why she did this thing, and even if it's 'bad' it's for the Greater Good. But whoever else doesn't know that, they just see her hurting them.

[mimibwi]

My thoughts on shipping

I have previously been silently exploring BTS ships and decided to put some of my thoughts on “paper”.

Now, I have been aware of the toxicities of certain BTS shipper fandoms and how messy shipping has been for groups that pre-date BTS such as One direction and Fifth Harmony. I have personally never been much of a shipper before BTS and naturally discovering my ship’s bond and starting to appreciate it. It always baffles me how shipping seems to mean different things to different people or groups of shippers. This is heard often but shipping should be something done for fun and I won’t say I hate that logic or that I 100% agree with it because I personally think its okay if you have a slight inkling your favorite pair may be dating/more than what they say they are and you try looking at it a bit more seriously. I think it’s human nature to be inquisitive and curious. However, like everything, there needs to be a limit and I think that’s a huge problem not only in shipping culture but stan culture in general. There’s been so many times that I have seen jokes or otherwise harmless discourses become a bigger deal than they were ever meant to be.

To me shipping is and always would be about observation, (rational) speculation and possibilities. I am never going to fight with anyone to prove my ship is real in a romantic way because to be frank I genuinely do not know. None of us know and that’s okay. I like discussing the possibility of ships (mainly my ship) being real (this always irks me to say cause every ship is real but anyway) and sometimes even theorize things based on that assumption. This is getting a bit messy because I have so much I want to say but I have no structure to it, bare with me.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, I think shipping is okay within limits. Once again, its all about observations and all of us are only human and can’t help but pick up on things from time to time and who knows maybe your hunch might actually mean something. So I never see any shippers or ship dynamic as a competition. I even seek out analysis, theories and videos of other ships because I love to see the different dynamics and how differently we all think and how things can look solely based on one’s perspective. Despite how frustrating it gets, I find shipping culture in itself very interesting. The way the same things can be interpreted in so many ways, seeing how differently people think from me and in many cases how other’s thoughts challenge my perspective and opinions.

The type of shipping I don’t enjoy is the type that:

makes it a competition of who is the closest or which bond is the best.

is already CONVINCED and 100% without a doubt BELIEVES that the ship they enjoy is the “real” one because like I said before none of us know for sure. It gets even worse because this subset of people speak about their theories/analysis/opinions as if its a fact known by many and some of us just need to get with the program.

degrade other members for ships. this is an instant red flag for me and if I’m being honest, many shippers aren’t as forward with the hate they have toward the member that “threatens” their ship. I have seen many shippers say the vilest things or agree with the rudest asks about some of the boys but at the end say “but I love him though” like…do you? do you really?—

push theories and delusions into the boy’s spaces to get confirmation…side eye. This is one of the worst things to me honestly. Shipping is meant to be enjoyed within fandom spaces and no matter how real you think your ship is, there is absolutely no reason to try to bring it to the boy’s attention that you apparently know what they are. Please do not make weird, inappropriate or suggestive comments about ships on their welives, do not DM them about it, do not DM or bug their family, friends and colleagues about it. PLEASE JUST BE NORMAL!!! If a ship is in fact real, they have their reasons for not being public about it and you as a fan of the group and especially as someone who enjoys the pair should be respectful of that. Sure it’s fine to talk about the duos on weverse or tag the boys in cute edits because I’m sure they like that their friendships are appreciated but please be cautious when pushing it to them through a romantic lens.

I think this takes away a lot of the fun of shipping and these subsets of shippers along with others I may have missed out here are the reason that the fandom tries to push out shippers for the most part. I always joke about many non toxic shippers getting thrown into it when all some of us really do is cry and gush about our ship TT its such a shame. But its understandable since the toxic shippers make up a large, VERY LOUD subset of the fandom and with the track record of shipping among groups, I frankly wish a lot of you weren’t around either.

((a lot more below the cut))

My Approach

To me, showing love and appreciation for the very REAL bond that we see is always going to be essential and the basis of everything I do as a shipper. And I am not talking about any theories or analysis of what we’re shown but taking in and appreciating what the boys say and the many ways they show love to each other.

No matter who you ship this is a very easy task to accomplish because the tannies are so loving and every single pair or trio has a special bond that is intriguing to explore. I have learnt so much in the few years I’ve been an ARMY, not only from my ship but from almost every ship and just the tannies on a whole. They’ve taught me a lot about friendship and help me understand the type of relationships I should aim to have and the type of person I want to be for others. These lessons and small appreciations are what I’ve anchored myself to so that I don’t stray too much from this original plot and even if I do, it’s very easy to find my way back.

That being said, I have acknowledged that I can be very delusional. I refuse to believe any of my theories or the theories that any shipper presents to me as 100% fact, no matter how convincing they might sound. I have accepted that everything I theorize about could be 1000% wrong and very very far from what is true and I’m fine with that thought. It’s what allows me to think up far fetch little theories or blip off into these delusional mind bubbles where my ship is real. It’s also why I can get out of my head and acknowledge the fact that it’s likely that no ship in BTS are romantic [ref to My unpopular(?) shipping opinions and this ask]. All of it is because I leave room for deniability.

I’ve expressed this here before but it is very much baffling to me how so many shippers believe with 100% certainty that the pair they like are actually dating and are willing to go to war over it. Y’all are way better than me because I, personally, refuse to look like a fool on the world wide web. Don’t get me wrong, I would definitely defend the tannies from the “not friends anymore” or “fanservice” allegations but I am not going out of my way to fight with delusional people about 2 Korean men (who I don’t know personally😭) being sexually or romantically involved. Y’all can keep that!

Why I don’t believe the believers

Okay now I’ll try to move on and talk about why some shipper discourses or theories don’t hold up to me and why its quite insane and sort of foolish to believe a ship exists in a romantic light 100% based solely on them. The short answer of this is CONTEXT.

Forming opinions and arguments (I am not saying shipping should be an argument but since many shippers treat it like one, I’m addressing it as such for now) about a topic always requires a massive amount of context and a foundation of already factual information to be built from to sound even remotely plausible and valid. That’s why I mentioned before that a lot of this shipping business is speculation and opinions and frankly some of the speculation/opinions I see from shippers just don’t make sense to me. This is all because with BTS and any real person whose life we only see a fraction of, we lack a lot of context and for that reason building a solid argument from a 5 second clip of their life is difficult because we as outsiders are the ones who fill in the blanks. That’s why there usually isn’t any solid or shared opinion on what certain things said or done by the guys mean because we all have different experiences and biases that reflect in the way we see and interpret people’s actions.

Okay, I am going to go into a bit more detail about what I mean and what type of context I am referring to when I say this: (this is where it may get even messier, stay with me)

1// Situational context- This is more for the shippers that breakdown specific moments and (over)analyze them. Personally, I am a big picture person so whilst there may be particular moments that I see as a moment for or against a particular ship being more than friends, most times one clip or period of time doesn’t affect the way I view a ship. I think its drastic to constantly be changing your opinions based on every clip you see or changing it because a ship hasn’t publicly interacted in a while. Despite all of this, there are many things I keep in the back of my mind and maybe even form fun, (tbh) far-fetched theories on but for the most part it doesn’t change much for me. The reason why is because from moment to moment, clip to clip there is so much context that we don’t have about what’s happening in that one moment. Like did x have a bad morning? did he just receive bad/good news? is he looking forward to or dreading what he needs to do after this? is x going through something personally right now? did x and y have a falling out/misunderstanding? is x looking at y or is he just zoned out?

Okay this is going overboard and some of these may sound quite ridiculous but these are some of the millions of things that give context to a situation and for that reason they’re all things that need to be taken into consideration when analyzing the boys. I won’t even lie, I was thinking about Taehyung and Jungkook (to a lesser extent) for these cause if I see someone calling Tae rude or saying Jungkook is jealous one more time I might lose it. I am not saying any of the above ever happened cause once again I don’t know but all I am saying is stating any opinion of yours of a vague moment as fact without even exploring one of the above or any other possible factors is never going to let me take you seriously. I am also not saying every shipper who talks about a moment needs to be able to tell me what x had for breakfast that morning but if you express your observation/opinion as the truth I expect you to be able to give me CONTEXT. It feels like I am going in circles, I told you it was getting messy.

There are moments that hold up quite well on their own and have sufficient context. In other words, some things don’t require much explanation to be seen as truth. I guess what I am trying to say is the amount of factual information you have should remain proportionate to the assumptions and opinions you form. Too many times people use tiny moments to come to huge conclusions and connect dots that make no sense being connected. And I think its fun to be a bit far-fetch and delusional but it becomes a huge issue when nonsensical theories are posted on the internet and pushed to other people who don’t understand how irrational those theories are. Hence, I often believe in freedom of thought more so than freedom of speech; not everything you think needs to be said, you can keep things to yourself or at the very least only share it with one person or two that you trust to understand your intent.

2// Cultural context- I will try not to stick to this for too long because I am not Korean, so I can add very little cultural context to any ship moment minus those I have been told about before. There are some things that the boys do or say that would probably have a different meaning to me vs someone who is aware of Korean culture. There are many times, none that I can pinpoint at this time, that I see a comment or post explaining a clip/moment with cultural context, which changed my view on that particular moment. Like I said, I am threading lightly here cause there is not much I can add to this conversation. I am adding this here to remind you that the moment that is a big deal to you may just be normal for Koreans shrugs. This one is even more difficult than the first because cultural context isn’t something you can just make assumptions about, its something you need to be exposed to to understand. A mere Google search may not even cut it to fully understand as an outsider.

Things like honorifics and politeness levels of speech or even specific translations need to be taken with a grain of salt. The bromance and skinship aspect of K-pop/Korean culture is also a huge part of shipping that may be new to people from different cultures. In many countries in the West, skinship between men isn’t something very normalized or in many cases even socially acceptable so the amount that BTS show physical affection to each other might be startling to many international fans when it’s something that’s more socially acceptable in Korea and normalized amongst their team.

“Holding hands, linking arms, and hugging amongst friends are acceptable ways to show closeness and comfort. So, don’t assume that every two persons holding hands in public are romantically involved! Conversely, public displays of affection by romantic couples are more toned down compared to in societies like, say, the US”. 4 Distinctly Korean Habits To Know Before Going To Korea (sejong.com.sg)

None of this is to say that certain types of skinship can’t mean more to any two members or to say we can’t find the interactions cute or endearing. It once again boils down to the confidence shippers have when using these moments as proof of their ship being the real deal.

3// Differing personalities, beliefs and relationship dynamics- All of these points bleed into each other and are interconnected in some way but I think this one is basically the backbone of all of the others. Despite having situational or even cultural context, its still difficult to draw any clear conclusions because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT and any analysis or opinion will need to treat them as such—different people with different values, morals, beliefs, likes, priorities, dislikes, experiences and the lists goes on.

No matter how well the boys get on, they have continuously expressed how different all of them are as people. And because of that, no two ship can or should ever be viewed in the same lens. I think this “mistake” is something I see a lot in shipping: X and Y did this and X and Z didn’t hence XY>XZ, I honestly don’t think its that simple. In order to fully grasp a ship and its possibility of being real, you need to have a good idea of who the people you’re shipping are and what their likes, dislikes, values, priorities etc are.

Now this, like all these other points require a lot of assumptions to be made. Firstly, it assumes you interpret everything they say and do the way they meant it to come across, it assumes that their BTS persona is a good reflection of who they are as people OR that you have a good idea who they might be as people. I don’t know how to explain this one cause there are members that we as fans know as being a bit different on vs off camera and some of those differences are known to an extent but once again we’re dealing with a lot of assumptions so its tricky. Anyway, many shipper theories assume that we know how they’d react in various circumstances.

There are a few reasons I am bringing this up and I’ll mention it here to better explain myself. Like I said, I have been searching around at ship content just cause the more you fuck around the more you find out and I have been seeing people’s takes on shipping and forming opinions on them. At some point, I started feeling hypocritical cause of how my opinion may be different for particular ships and I concluded that this point was one of the reasons why. Let me explain-

I saw some people giving % probability scores for certain ships being romantic and the thought came into my head that Yoongi ships, I think they were specifically talking about yoonmin or sope, are not probable to me if we’re seriously thinking romantically. Even as someone who thinks Yoongi may be into men/women/both/none (girl honestly idk). The reason why i think this way is looking at Yoongi and what (I assume) his priorities and goals are in life. I mention in a previous post that I question the member’s willingness to take the risk that would come with being in a relationship with a bandmate and how I think that many of them don’t come across to me as being willing to. Yoongi is the epitome of that opinion for me. I mention this in the next point but dating someone within the same group as you will definitely be a big deal, it will be a PR/HR emergency if anything goes wrong and I don’t see Yoongi as the type of person to want to play around that and sacrifice his work for love whether he felt emotions or even trained himself to the point that feelings don’t develop in the first place. [I’ve said that I never want to date someone in the same field as me and after that, i haven’t found any of my colleagues attractive or as a romantic interest, even when I tried]

I think another example that works really well for this is Jimin and the way a lot of shipper’s interpret him compared to how I do. I think any ARMY or any one who keeps up with BTS for even 5 minutes, can see that Jimin is a very private person. Of all the members, he comes across to me as someone who is very cautious and particular(?) about the way he’s perceived. He’s very careful with his words and his actions. You can watch any video he’s in and see how much he thinks before he says something to the members (especially when it’s of a serious nature) or to ARMYs. A very easy example of this is how concerned he was in the FESTA 2022 video about how we may take what they said and almost pleading for the audience to just take them by their word (something that literally almost every person who watched that video DID NOT do but we move smh…). All of this to say, I can’t subscribe to theories that believe that Jimin is pointing out things between him and his secret partner or behaving risky with them in front of cameras and giggling about it. I can get into this more but I’ll digress.

I am not sure how these examples will come across but these are just some random examples I can think of where I think varying personalities might affect the way I see a ship. This is not me claiming any particular ship is over another or saying that any of these above points are true because my opinions are based on my specific perception of the different members and I am not claiming I know them best.

All in all, there is only so much (little) that we know of them, its difficult to know for certain what any of them would be like in a romantic relationship. However, it seems like many shippers tend to remove the bits of individuality we do see of each member whenever they look into ships which further makes things even more unrealistic and delusional sounding to me.

To add to this, many times shippers interpret things based on their idea of a relationship without really putting themselves in the member’s place. This is totally understandable considering what I mentioned before about us being the ones that fill in the blanks but it’s one of the reasons why we can’t take our theories 100% seriously all the time. At the end of the day, every single relationship is different and something that might be okay for the members in a relationship may not be okay with you or the way the members choose to deal with their relationship may not be how you think it should or would be dealt with. So once again, you can’t take your interpretation of things too seriously. If a ship is real, we aren’t and would never be privy to their private conversations regarding what is okay for them in THEIR relationship. We don’t know what their limits are or how they would choose to maneuver through their relationship on camera so our view of things will always be one-sided.

4// Knowing the gravity of the situation if any ship is real- This one is basically situational context but on a wider scope and might be the most serious of all of these, despite me putting it last on the list. I think a lot of people who ship members romantically do not even consider how serious a situation like that would be. For the most part, I don’t think this is a problem if we’re just having fun but I think people who seriously analyze things the boys do need to take it into consideration. We all are aware at least to some extent of the state of LGBTQ+ in South Korea. Korea is still a very conservative country and though members of the LGBTQ+ community are actively seeking change, things are not as progressive as one would hope.

Taking that into consideration, any two members of BTS— the biggest K-pop group in the world and one of South Korea’s representative brands— being aware that they have more than platonic feelings for each other would be a huge deal. There’s a lot to consider regarding the way the other member’s would approach it, the way the company would approach it and the way the two members themselves would want to deal with it: whether or not they decide to pursue it and if they do, how they go about doing that.

Any two members dating would serve a huge risk for not only those two members but the group as a whole and the other members individually. Aside from the risks of any of the members being queer, the fact that we as shippers aren’t opposed to the idea of two members dating and the fact that many ARMYs would also be open to it if it ever turned out to be the case DOES NOT take away from the fact that such a relationship may be seen as highly unprofessional and inappropriate. We know all the boys are friends who have grown up closely alongside each other and feelings developing is something that is possible but at the end of the day, they are coworkers working together as BTS and many people may not be able to look past that.

I think many shippers look at ships in a very isolated way. They remove the very real world that we live in and all the problems that would come along with a ship being real and opt to live in a world where their ship is real and everything around them is always sunshine and rainbows. And I get it, that’s way more fun but it is not realistic. I think its fine to have this outlook if you are shipping just for fun but that is a lot of the times not the case. Many of these shippers on YouTube, tumblr or X that seriously analyze these relationships tend to feed a very unrealistic, clouded world view to others that may also be very naïve thinking. This is why a lot of theories grow to become these huge nonsensical conspiracies that any rational person can deduce makes absolutely no sense in the real world. Let’s address some specifics:

Addressing some unrealistic shipperverse theories

Any “real” ship in BTS are not being careless with their relationship in front of cameras or when doing other work. All your theories about them kissing on/around cameras or going into changing rooms together during award shows and coming back dishevel will never hold up to me.

If a ship is involved romantically and the company is aware of it, there’s most likely only a small subset of people that would actually know. My guess of who would know is: some higher ups in the company, the members, a select few managers and maybe bodyguards, possibly trusted and long time members of the BTS team i.e. PDogg, Son Sungdeuk, Slow rabbit etc. and perhaps a trusted PR team to advice them on how to deal with things. Even this list feels a bit too extensive. Anyway I am making this point because I don’t get why shippers think that random hairstylists or camera directors or editors would be privy to such sensitive information. And this stands for any relationship really, it’s unlikely that ALL of their staff are even aware if any of the boys are in more “traditional” (heterosexual) relationships so why do some of you act like it’ll be an open secret if any of them are queer.

Theories about love triangles or stories saying a member left a member for another member are so crazy out of touch?? Any one pair realizing their feelings for each other and choosing to pursue it despite the risk it poses to them and to the team is unquestionably a huge deal and would need to be dealt with an immense degree of care. So its very hard to believe that the members are haphazardly messing around with each other, cheating, breaking up and just overall being messy about the whole thing.

I genuinely don’t get why you people think any pair in the group are being blatant and basically trying to out themselves to the public at this point in their career. It’s not far fetched to think that they would have or want some way to express themselves but I doubt it’s as blatant as shippers suggest. Honestly, if a couple does exist amongst the tannies I am not even confident it’s something the public may ever be made aware of…

Conclusion

All in all, I think shipping is something that can be really fun but needs to be done with a huge amount of care and respect. Making assumptions about the boys and being dead set on one particular possibility being the end game can be detrimental, not only to the boys but to you as well. Many shippers are very confident and secure about their ship being real romantically and will stop at nothing to prove their point. This is a very ridiculous approach because I would bet that a secret couple don’t want or need you to prove their realness, they also don’t need you to spread their message to the world and convert people to your side. It really should not be that serious. Shipping should be something that simmers instead of boiling over. Just enjoy what you enjoy without spreading hate and without seeking real life confirmation through the members or dispatch or their family.

With the tannies getting older, it’s important for all of us to have somewhat of an understanding that what we have imagined or want their life to be may just not be what is true. I would hate (though I have already seen it being in the future of some ships😞) to see the larry-fication of any of these ships where 10-15 years in the future, shippers are still making random connections even if the members are known to be married to other people and have 5 kids. With there being 21 unique pairings within the group, even if it turns out that one of them is “real” doesn’t that mean that the possibility of most of us being wrong is greater than us being right. And that is, if we ever find out…

This was always meant to be the first post on my blog but because of the shipper climate around the time I started writing it, I held back on posting it how I initially intended to. I decided to give it a bit of a revamp and edit it to fit with what I want my little blog here to be. I’ve been writing this for almost a year now and have enjoyed putting these thoughts together in a somewhat concise and comprehensible way. Even if you don’t agree with everything I said here, I hope the main point comes across i.e. no shipper knows better than the other, we’re all going based off our own perspective and rational and so we shouldn’t be 100% certain and we shouldn’t be fighting over or confidently pushing ideas that we are probably wrong about. I really don’t care who ships who (ship and let ship) but I certainly think shippers need to be more careful about the things they say and do in the name of ships.

Thank you for reading!💜

~~🐝

links used in the post:

Harry Styles & Louis Tomlinson 'Ships' Into a Delusional Twitter Trend (ccn.com)

Lauren Jauregui Says Those Camila Cabello Relationship Rumors Were ‘So Traumatizing’ | Glamour

https://www.sejong.com.sg/4-distinctly-korean-habits-to-know-before-going-to-korea/

Interesting reads:

Queer Identity in Korea | CIEE

Ask a Korean!: I Love You, Man

It’s all in the Touch – Skinship. (스킨십) | Elwood 5566

LGBTQ Koreans Eager for Anti-Discrimination Bill | TIME

Narrow but Significant Win for LGBT Rights in South Korea (voanews.com)

[ouatsnark]

Hi! Firstly, I love your blog. Secondly, I just saw a take on Killian Jones that made me want to scream.

This person said that Killian as a villain worked but that his redemption arc didn't work at all. Their evidence being that it took too long?

They also said that he was glamorised and portrayed as a selfless hero. Admittedly, I haven't watched OUAT in a bit, but I'm fairly certain that Killian's past actions are not portrayed as good things to have done.

They also listed some of the bad things that were APPARENTLY portrayed as good things. Some of the things on this list were:

Killian being a pirate

Milah leaving Rumple for Killian (which they phrased as Killian "homewrecking" Milah's marriage)

Helping Milah abandon Baelfire (why do they think he could control that? I got the impression that Milah really just wanted an escape. I feel like she probably would have left with someone else if Killian hadn't accepted her coming with him)

Trying to goad Rumple into fighting him when Milah first left with Killian

The rings that he took from his victims (I always saw that as a reminder of something he regretted, not as a trophy?)

Killian killing his dad and leaving Liam 2 an orphan.

Having "raped multiple women". (Guess what their evidence was. For the last time people, the line about drinking with women usually being his tactic is NOT AN ADMISSION OF RAPE!!! If it was, Emma would NOT have dated him afterwards!)

Shooting Belle at the town line

Killing David's dad. (They claimed that this meant that Captain Swan was not a healthy relationship, which... what?) (They also said that David being picky about wedding venues was because of this, and I just do not understand their logic. If that was the reason, why was he only being weird about the venue, not the wedding as a whole?)

And this was only SOME of their nonsense claims. The rest were all along the same lines.

EVERY piece of evidence they had for him being glamourised was stuff that he did while a VILLAIN (I swear, some people don't know the meaning of that word), and was stuff that was acknowledged as things that he shouldn't have done.

At least this person acknowledged that Regina and Rumple were bad characters, though?

Sorry for the long ask, this just infuriated me to no end, and I wanted your opinion on it, because I love your blog.

Wait. Someone against Killian Jones actually said that his redemption “took too long”? Usually it’s “it happened too fast” or “he didn’t do anything!” So this is actually a new angle!

Are they upset that Killian never cried about his happy ending the way Regina did every single season? Cause the show made it quite obvious the only reason she was on team hero was for her happy ending. I always thought this was a good thing in Killian’s favor. He mentions his happy ending ONE TIME and it actually has more to do with him fearing something will happen to Emma because of him.

So here is a list of things that were supposedly... good?

Killian being a pirate

When does this person think Killian being a pirate was ever portrayed as something good? Because I can’t point to a single moment. I can point out instances that contradict this: Killian talking about his rings, the whole thing with David’s father, his regret over how he treated Ariel in S3, how he shies away from wanting to speak about Ursula in Season 4 because he knows what he did was bad, his interaction with David in S6 when David wants his help finding his father’s killer. All of these are painted as bad moments in his past and Killian is ASHAMED OF THEM.

Killian “home wrecker” Jones & goading Rumple into a fight

Yes, Killian holds some responsibility for destroying Milah & Rumple’s marriage and for Bae losing his mother but it isn’t solely his blame to shoulder. Milah and Rumple share the blame too. Milah more than anyone because she ultimately made the decision for herself to abandon her family. She was not kidnapped. She was not coerced. And it was definitely clear from before she even met Killian that she wanted out of her marriage to Rumple. So, yes, if not for Killian it would’ve been someone else.

That being said, this was also never portrayed as anything good. There is a whole ass scene in S5 where Killian says outright that HE WAS THE VILLAIN IN THAT STORY! He even says that what he did to Rumple, the whole taunting him bit, was WRONG!

The Rings

The rings were a trophy at one point but Killian says that he wears them now as a reminder of what he was and that all sins can be forgiven when someone loves you. Sins are bad, right? Yes. Ok. Just checking!

When he speaks about what he did, his tone is one of sadness and regret. He isn’t happy about it. He isn’t boastful. "Every ring is a sad story," he says. Sad is also not good, right? Yes. Thought so.

Killian killing his dad and orphaning Liam 2

How was this portrayed as good? Liam 2 literally comes after him, twice. We see how much Killian’s actions damaged Liam 2. Killian also swore Regina to secrecy over it. Good things aren’t sworn into secrecy!

Killian “raping multiple women”

Yeah this would have needed to actually be canon but it’s not it’s just a fanon opinion that relies on his haters inserting words into one line that he never said then IGNORING Emma’s non-reaction to this supposed admission.

Lemme just scratch this one off the list as "irrelevant"

Shooting Belle

This person is stupid. When was this portrayed as good? He was arrested for it! Belle calls him on it in Season 3! And he brings it up again in S6 because he still feels guilty over it!? These people make up bull shit all day long just to justify why their crack ships are better. It’s so stupid.

Killian killing David’s father

Does this person know what the word “good” means? I am beginning to think they also need a dictionary. Because Killian faced some immediate consequences after learning about what he did. Emma broke off their engagement and he was sucked into a portal.

I am not sure how this means the relationship is unhealthy. Every relationship has its struggles. We’re dealing with a 300 year old pirate with a dark past, here. Things are gonna be a little more extreme but this is a fictional story. What makes it healthy is that they work through it together and apologize.

When Snow accuses David of not wanting Emma to marry Hook, David literally says “no, this has nothing to do with Hook”. David being all negative about the venue was actually trauma caused by Regina! Because he says, and I quote, “The day I married you was the best day of my life… until the Evil Queen burst through those doors and threatened everyone we loved. Then it became one of the worst. I don't want that for Emma. When I walk her down the aisle, the only thing she should be thinking about is the wonderful years ahead, not Gideon or the Black Fairy, not any of it. With everything she's been through, the least we can do is give her a real wedding day.”

It's been a while since i watched the entire episode but I am 99% sure the wedding is momentarily postponed because of David's rant. It only goes forward when they think they've dealt with the Black Fairy.

Conclusion:

I reject the idea that any of Killian's crimes were portrayed as good. In my opinion, if characters are showing shame, regret and remorse over an action that usually means that action is bad. I am also of the opinion that if the characters face consequences or apologize that also means what they did was wrong and the action is being handled correctly in the story. Killian's story has all of these elements.

It's nice that they admit Regina and Rumple were bad characters but if they were truly unbiased they'd acknowledge that "bad actions or crimes being portrayed as good" is more a problem with Regina's story than Killian's. I mean. Come on. She was crowned the "good queen" over a kingdom she doesn't regret cursing, to whom she never apologizes to and she still has many of the citizen's hearts stored in her vault... her most heinous crimes (rape of Graham and Henry's abuse) go unacknowledged.

So Kilian's story is the least problematic here.

Thank you so much for the ask! I am so happy you enjoy the blog!

[blood-starved-beast]

1) Really glad that you liked my idea about how Gehrman and Maria could've been mutually cringefail to one another over failing "expectations" and thought that dynamic had potential! I have to admit though, you are actually the reason I've started thinking of Maria under less flattering angle and discovered new girlfailure depths in her 2) Tbh it is kind of funny how I always add commentary on Gehrman takes that are TOO unflattering, but you always add a commentary on Maria takes that aren't unflattering ENOUGH. It feels like that Spiderman meme with two of them pointing at one another but with one Spiderman being upside-down and with colors inverted. Maybe users like us can make those characters equal one day instead of defined "bad" side and "good" side. One day..

Sorry for getting back to you late but aw thanks bruh.

The thing with me and Bloodborne is that it's both a horror and a tragedy. And what comes to mind with those genres is that the characters, the human ones in this case, are often portrayed and are meant to be seen in an unflattering light, because they've done awful things/are awful people in line with the themes, motivations, mood, etc. of the story.

Bloodborne is a story about the aftermath of a societal collapse due to rampant, unchecked scientific and medical atrocities, hubris towards the gods (Great Ones), religious and political corruption, and human induced plagues. We're faced time and time again with Hunters and doctors who have done so much damage, so much atrocity, a callous and blatant disregard for human life. Like I don't even have to list them just open a save into any place and it's there.

So going back to Maria it's like. Her reputation precedes her. We enter the Research Hall where we're met with some of the most explicit violations of human life (Orphanage aside) in the game. The patients going mad, being turned into water bubbles for experimental purpose, living in squalor, going berserk. When their experiments fail they're dumped into the Lumenwood garden where in the dream rise up to fight you with the power of the Cosmos. They cry out for a Lady Maria, who based on what they're saying is allegedly helping them and supposedly is going to save them. These cries, uttered by the destitute and the sick. They are not accurate actors. These people are living in desperate circumstances, they are being abused, and the only person they cling to is the current authority figure - logically, this is Lady Maria, as otherwise they would have named someone.

Like, this isn't the place to discuss in-depth the psychology of research subjects vs experimenters but we all know that subjects trust the experiment leader to take care or at least not abuse them. If you want to learn more about this look up Milgram's Experiments on Authority. Anyways, the fact that we see such a contrast between what desperate people need/crave and what they're not getting - someone is failing them. Lady Maria is failing them. And lo and behold, you find her dead in the Clocktower having committed suicide.

So I'm gonna be very unpopular in saying this that I don't feel much sympathy for Maria's own state other than yeah what a crying shame. I know society unjustly villainizes the mentally ill and those who commit suicide, but people don't always commit suicide cause they've been overwhelmed by mental illness. Sometimes, it's to escape a failure or consequences. And Maria I believe, is of that latter example. How fitting, that the Living Failures are placed right before Maria's bossfight. How fitting that they're dead and rise up, just like how Maria we find dead but actually not really. She failed the people of the Research Hall, she failed to help humanity advance to the next stage, which is the goal of all the researchers in the game (and they all failed). She failed to save them.

And apparently, it's not enough that she failed them, but she doesn't even help them while they're alive? The level of squalor we see the patients in the Hall is abhorrent. That's not something that happens in a week or a day. Saint Adeline is largely lucid (before giving her brain fluid) and speaks as though Maria is still alive. The implication is that's what the Hall looked like right around the time she died. She failed them, failed to protect them, and then disrespected them in their last days, after death. Maybe the Hall didn't start out this way, maybe the more demoralized she because with her research, the less she cared, who knows. She still got new patients, and kept doing the atrocities. She placed her research - and her curiosity over everyone else in that Hall. She betrays her principles for it. And what does she have to show for it? She runs away again.

She runs away from the Hunt when she realizes she done wrong (hates the Hunt, but hey could she have done something then?), but instead joins the Research Hall - apparently still enslaved to her curiosity, maybe justifying it with saving people. Clearly that was an excuse cause look at the Hall. (I mean, what kind of person claims atrocity at the Fishing Hamlet then runs to lead a Human Experimentation lab?) She couldn't face her own actions, who she has become as a person, who she is as a person, she ran from it. And by the end of her tenure at the Hall, she realized she could no longer run away from her flaws, her atrocities. What does she do? Does she change course? No, she kills herself.

"Evolution without courage will be the ruin of our race" is a statement found in the game. Evolution, likely referring to ascension. In the Japanese version, it's written as "Pathetic evolution" or something to that extent. Maria is emblematic of that statement. She is a coward. That's why she was only able to produce the living failures. Whereas Fauxsefka had that courage and produced the Celestial Emissary and the minions, Maria never did. Her suicide is emblematic of that, the cherry on top on a long list of personal and professional failures. So so pathetic.

[autumnslance]

Wolcred Week 2023: Trust|Heart

(A day late with 990ish words. Early ShB patches, but nothing spoilery. When your emotional knee-jerk reactions are completely at odds with what your logical brain knows. AKA: Aeryn has a jealous streak she dislikes.)

Aeryn slammed the door of her Pendants apartment, leaning heavily against it, eyes scrunched shut, trying to regain some semblance of composure.

She realized too late she was not alone, and then heard Thancred’s voice. “Is everything all right?”

“Fine,” she failed at trying not to snap. Breathe. Focus. Calm down. “Bad day.”

Aeryn could practically hear his raised eyebrow. “I see. Do you need anything?”

She shook her head. “I just…I’m going to get a shower, see if that takes the edge off.”

“Very well.”

She shoved off the door and stalked into the bath. The pipes rattled, familiar now, as steam started to roll through the small chamber. Aeryn shucked her clothes, pulled out her braids and yanked a comb through her long hair. As she stepped under the running water, she thought she heard the door of the main room click shut again. She leaned on the wall and made herself breathe through that damnable feeling of icy claws squeezing her heart.

It was just some silly woman’s thoughtless, ignorant words; she hadn’t known better. Aeryn did know better, knew Thancred better, and had no reason to feel this way, no cause for alarm.

Nevermind her own nasty words but a few moons ago, when she had made terrible accusations of him. He had rightly been angry.

By the time the steam was fading and the water going from hot to lukewarm and swiftly heading toward chilly, Aeryn thought she heard more sound in the other room, but the rushing water made it difficult to tell. She shut off the shower.

When she returned to the main chamber, body wrapped in a towel, hair wrapped in another, she was surprised by the lowered lights and Thancred setting a full meal on the table. He looked up and smiled sheepishly. 

“So I’d meant to surprise you with reservations at that new restaurant we’d spoken of trying. Given you had a bad day, I instead ran over while you bathed and asked if they could package the meal, so we could dine here in peace and comfort, if you’re already at your limits with people.”

She stared for a moment. Then startled him by sinking to the floor, sobbing.

Thancred stood by the table, watching her. “Did I…do something wrong? Aeryn? Are you all right?” He strode over, hesitating to touch her as he crouched down.

“No, you did right; you did perfect, it’s me being horrid and jealous and just…Gods!” She rubbed her face. “I’m sorry, I haven’t any right to feel this way.”

He frowned. “Yet you obviously do.” He took a moment to think. “What must I do to fix this?”

“No, it’s nothing, you’ve done nothing, and I know that, I trust you, I do, and yet,” she sighed in frustration. “There’s a woman who works at the markets,” Aeryn said. “Shorter than me, fair skin, light brown hair. Named Eidith.” Thancred listened, his concerned expression unchanged. “Apparently you rescued her caravan from sin eaters when she came to the city, around the time I arrived in the First.”

Now he frowned, thinking, and slowly shook his head. “Not ringing any bells, I’m afraid. Ryne and I tended to aid anyone we could get to in time; all anyone with any decency could do when Light yet covered the realm. If she were part of a group of refugees coming to the Crystarium for shelter, she was one of dozens.”

“See, I know that!” Aeryn said. “That makes sense! And I know you; you’re not really the flirtatious cad you pretended to be when we first met.”

“Thank you for that,” he replied dryly.

“But she’s just like those girls that you had wrapped around your fingers back then. Swooning and fawning and asking if I’m one of your friends and might I properly introduce you and—and I had to flee!”

Thancred pinched the bridge of his nose. “For gods’ sakes—are you jealous? Of some woman I don’t even know?”

“Yes! And I know I shouldn’t be!”

He went from crouching to sitting heavily on the floor, and laughed.

“This isn’t funny!”

“It’s certainly not, and yet…Gods, I love you.”

She blinked. “What?” He did not casually say those words, and their use now, coupled with his genuinely relieved laughter, somehow doused the rising heat of her temper.

He wiped his eyes, then reached over and cupped her face in his hands. “I love you, you wonderfully ridiculous woman. Your jealous heart and all.”

She huffed out a breath. It was difficult to stay upset when he was watching her with such wicked amusement. “I was afraid of a repeat of…well, of the time that I said…”

He pulled her closer as he leaned in, until their foreheads rested together. “Then let’s not repeat it, as I’d like to think I’ve earned the trust you didn’t yet have in me at that point.”

“You’ve more than earned it,” she said. “And you’ve always had my trust, really, though I was upset and so acted cruel that day. But it won’t happen again.”

“Then that’s good enough for me. Now, let’s set this matter aside, shall we? Our dinner is getting cold.”

“I’ll get dressed,” Aeryn said.

Thancred made a show of looking her towel-clad form over. “You could, though I certainly won’t complain if you come to the table as you are,” he teased.

She rolled her eyes and pushed away and up, clutching the towel to herself. He stood as well, and caught her in an embrace from behind. He seemed about to say something more, but merely pressed his lips to her bare shoulder and squeezed.

“I love you, too,” Aeryn sighed. “Thank you.”

“Anytime darling. Now put on something cute—please don’t take too long—and come eat your dinner.”

Reassured and heart calmer than it had been half a bell ago, Aeryn stepped away to get dressed for dinner with her partner.

[spicedfink]

Someone posted their opinion on tophabe and I'm not going to @ them since people are apparently being weird but it did make me want to voice my tophabe take because tbh it made me feel insecure and like I needed to explain myself because they were right and so real for what they said.

My thing with (s2) episode 8 is first off I can only process parts of it at a time because that episode made me uncomfortable Second is there is one major factors I take in when thinking about tophabe and a few minor factors: The biggest thing is Joan the canon end game love interest as far as we have been shown tried to point blank kill everybody which is objectively worse. As for minor factors I'll use bullet points: - Cleo also manipulates Abe not to that degree but for longer - All the cast are kind of bad people but the show only framed Topher's actions as bad which I found weird when I really thought about it then they said Harriet was a theater kid and I stopped caring about what the writing was meant to convey - Him giving good advice first in s2e8 reminds me of how I used to give a friend of mine bad advice as a joke when they kept ignoring my real advice and for some reason they took my joke advice seriously. - Topher wasn't in the classroom with Abe so he didn't know the teacher had been hitting on him so it feels like he's just making shit up on the spot - I don't see how Topher would have seen this working. Like it shows him being right there when it starts but like how? I know it's just because the plot said so but the actual "go sleep with this gross person" seems more like a "oh Abe would never actually do that" line of thought - like it reads more as "if I can get Abe insecure he won't ask Joan out" then "Abe will defiantly go for this" (still shitty but less) - It's a cartoon and their actions are exaggerated - s2e8 was such a horribly done episode all around that I can't do anything other than cherry pick it - poor mental health is hardly an excuse but man do I believe his therapist isn't doing him any favors (which is why I have his change therapist in my fanfics) - The fact they're still shitty high schoolers meaning they all have the most room for growth and I'm projecting my own journey of because and actual good person and figuring out my sexuality onto him (obviously wasn't his level of shitty but I said dumb shit and did weird emotionally charged things thanks to how I was raised and poor mental health) - Episode 1 of season 2 Topher got the t-rex arms so I attached myself to his character right then and there ("he's autistic just like me") - I like happy things. The show gave a character who they made clear was suppose to be disliked and bullied for being horrible and didn't show him do anything actually that bad until episode 8 out of 10. And before that ranges from normal weird teenager things he'd logically grow out of, trying too hard to be socially accepted and being mentally ill??? Like no. No I'm personally not going to think this character is a horrible person incapable of growth... And this is why my serious non one sided tophabe headcanons are all for when they are older because I really think Topher would, you know grow up and regret his past actions. Also since I see Topher as queer: internalized homophobia and the such are a bitch (speaking from experience)

I don't actually have a good reason for why Abe would like Topher back past I just think it'd be fun. If Abe gets with Joan and is friends with Cleo I think he should still be friends with Topher though

[jadelotusflower]

Stargate rewatch: 1x21 Within the Serpent's Grasp

We’re back in tarp city, quite a circle back to the pilot.

Daniel sans glasses once again, urging the team to go through the gate to the address he got in the AU. Jack still doesn’t believe him and Sam is concerned about a court martial, but Teal’c is immediately on board.

“In the other reality by the time I left Sara was dead, Carter your whole family was dead, hell I was dead, everyone was dead.” Interesting that Daniel specifically mentions Sara here, I wonder if the Jack/Sara relationship was something they were considering revisiting at some point.

The first use (I think) of the black BDUs by the team.

Is Daniel wearing contacts? At least in the earlier scene he had his glasses hooked on his shirt. I realise I’m harping on this but there doesn’t seem to be any continuity to Daniel’s vision.

Story by James Crocker (his only Stargate credit), teleplay by Jonathan Glassner, directed by David Warry-Smith.

Our first use of the Zat’nik’tel - unpopular opinion maybe but I love the Zats, they become somewhat of a crutch as an all purpose stun gun rather than the “extreme pain” they’re introduced as inflicting, but that’s how it goes.

Jack, Daniel, and Sam being floored by the ship accelerating but not Teal’c is a nice touch.

It’s Ferretti! Confirmation that he took over from Kawalsky leading SG-2. I always liked Ferretti, it’s a shame he wasn’t more of a supporting/recurring character in the show. In fact I don’t think we see him again after this episode? He’s off to get into prosthetics on Andromeda.

Some continuity issues with what Teal’c knows about the Ha’tak vessels in this episode compared to later on - his knowledge/experience really is dictated by the episode requirements.

The Jaffa turn on the big ol’ silver ball of communication and Apophis dials in to introduce his son Klorel. It’s a bit of a retcon from the pilot but I discuss my headcanon explanation in that episode writeup.

Daniel shifting into rage mode at seeing Apophis.

Also lol at everyone in their beanies but Jack. RDA really said nope, caps only for O’Neill, no exceptions.

The discussion the team has about whether to try and capture Klorel/rescue Skarra is actually a nice mirror of the one they have in The Nox - Jack and Daniel, being emotionally invested, are keen to do it despite the risk and are quick with justifications (Jack - it would be a strategic advantage, Daniel - they could try and reach Skaara), Teal’c supports them with his own tactical logic, while Sam appropriately questions the plan and makes sure there’s a contingency.

It’s part of why they make such a good team - each of them bring a different skillset and pov to each situation, and they have the respect for each other to talk it through.

Sam and Daniel plant the C4, and apparently Daniel’s glasses were clipped to his shirt after all, because he takes them out and puts them in a vest pocket for some reason.

For Daniel's snark about "uploading a virus to the mothership" the previous episode, it's kind of lol that their solution ends up being just blowing up the mothership - uploading a virus in the form of explosives.

Jack and Teal’c actually nab Klorel pretty easily in the end - it’s holding onto him that’s the problem.

“He is my father. He seeded the queen mother. He chose the host in which I will live out eternity. Apophis gave me life.” I suppose we’re meant to assume Amaunet is the queen in question but I really wish they’d done more with the familial relationships - both of the Goa’uld and human sides.

Alexis Cruz gives a great performance as Klorel, really pushing Jack’s buttons.

After Jack shoots him with the Zat, Skaara calls for both Sha’re and Daniel 🥺

Skaara is able to maintain a degree of influence over Klorel even when he regains control - afteraffects of the zat, Skaara’s strength, or because Klorel is a young Goa’uld not yet experienced in controlling a host? Perhaps all three.

Klorel gets Daniel in the hold of the ribbon device (but of course!), and Jack has to make the agonising decision to shoot Skaara to save Daniel’s life.

I mean, if I had a nickel every time a member of SG-1 has to shoot one of Daniel’s family to stop the Goa’uld that possesses them from killing him with the ribbon device…

Maybe it’s not that weird it happened twice, since Jonathan Glassner also wrote Forever in a Day.

“O’Neill, you must take action!” Why doesn’t Teal’c take action? Someone run over there and tackle Klorel instead of standing around watching Daniel’s brain get fried!

But of course it has to be Jack - Jack who brushed by Daniel in the pilot to greet Skaara, but has grown closer to Daniel since he joined SG-1; they started out only united by a common goal (find Sha’re and Skaara) but have started to develop a real bond. It’s the emotional climax not only of the episode, but the whole season in forcing Jack to chose between the lives of his surrogate son and his comrade and friend.

Added to this is the trauma of Jack being forced to stop Skaara with a gun - Charlie died in part due to Jack’s negligence around his gun, but Jack actively had to shoot Skaara here and that’s heartbreaking.

A nice mirror to the end of the last episode, with our team staring down at the Stargate framed by the control room of the SGC, and now they're staring down at Earth framed by the Pel'Tak.

[ratsandfashion]

Ok just had a long nap and an absolutely epic saga of a dream. My family and I were ostensibly on vacation (living in?) India. I say “ostensibly” because I doubt my dream setting bore any actual resemblance to anywhere in India. It wasn’t like, stereotypical or anything, just. . .nothing recognizable as India either? I’d say if anything, my brain pulled more from American/English countrysides and forests. But anyway, we were Not Home, though we’d brought the chinchillas with us. First sign this was a dream, the chinchillas DO NOT travel.

Some mundane drama happened first, like my mother selling some of my favorite clothes to a consignment shop without my knowledge or permission, for no good reason, and our resultant conflict about that which lead to me going on a Jurassic Park ride when I was supposed to be home. Jurassic Park theme park rides feature a lot in my dreams.

Nothing bad happened there. No dinosaurs. No, what ended up happening was a ZOMBIE OUTBREAK. This lead to my entire family (mom, dad, sister, me) piling into a large vehicle with all the supplies we could take, all slights forgiven, and my dad driving us out of there on the long journey to get out of the country. The chinchillas were left behind in the chaos and I was very sad.

Second sign this was a dream, neither I or my dad would leave a pet behind.

Because we were in a more rural area, the zombies we dealt with tended to be animals. On the plus side, since the zombies in my dream retained the intelligence they had in life, this meant that we only had to deal with the intellects of mostly cattle and the like. On the negative side, cattle can do a lot more damage to a vehicle when they’re hellbent on busting it open to eat you. A couple of windows closed on tongues resulted in severing of said tongues, and it turned out that the best repellent for these creatures was their own saliva and flesh, so we used the tongues to smear around any vulnerable places/openings in the vehicle, so if they got a mouth in there they’d be immediately repelled. We also drove off a couple that got their faces in by shoving said tongues into their mouths, immediately repelling them so much they drew back, and we were able to drive away.

The one time we were accosted by the living, it was completely innocent, it was another car that caught up with ours and just wanted to ask for supplies. My dad wouldn’t let me give them our cookies but I was allowed to give them a container of this protein-rich food.

Sign three this was a dream: It would be the other way around. I certainly value cookies more, but my dad would definitely give them those before the logically more nutritionally valuable stuff.

There was a lot of adventures along the way, but the three I most primarily remember are this:

Zombie Catwoman trying to get through our windshield, and my negotiating with a zombie squirrel, which had belonged to Squirrel Girl and thus could talk, about taking her out if I let him out of the special container we had him in in our car for just such an emergency. He was true to his word.

We passed a sort of. . . .huge statue/house shaped like a gnome or troll or something, and it was on wheels. Living inside it were children. They were all apparently human and of various ages. They had an exceptional amount of food supplies, like HUGE bricks of cheese and butter and stuff, and one of the older girls was explaining how rationing was going to work, how they were going to divide sleep shifts among the older kids so there was always someone able to look after the little ones, how to store the food, etc. During her speech, one of the little ones started biting her arm. The girl continued to calmly explain everything, and once she was done, she threw herself off the “house” taking the little zombie one with her. A crunch was heard under the back wheels.

We had seen a HUGE DINOSAUR in the distance, a massive sauropod the likes of which never existed in real life, with multiple homes built on its back, taking them to safety in the same direction we were going. It descended into a valley. Next time we saw it, it was a zombie. It tried to bit our car and honestly I don’t remember what we did.

As we were making it out of India and into….South Africa, inexplicably, which is definitely another sign this was a dream. . .we passed a car driven by a co-worker of mine, and one of her passengers was my chinchilla Pashmina, alive and well! We couldn’t stop to get her, but I knew she was fine at least, and even though I didn’t see Cashmere, I knew she was as well.

To finally cross the border, we had to go over a moveable bridge, basically one of those roads that is also a bridge that can be lowered up and down? And we somehow ended up driving over an airplane wing on the way. Badass!