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calmariah · 28 days ago

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Using Canto VII to Predict Dante's Identity (Continued)

I love a good sequel.

This post is the second half of a whole! Please view the first half of my theory here!

Even before the release of Part 3, my mind has been racing with evidence and possibilities I didn't list in my first post on this topic.

I'm excited to say that Part 3 has not deconfirmed any part of my theory-- and in fact has only strengthened it!

Hark, for my resolve is truer than any theorist before me! Adventure with me, if thou darest...

(Full story spoilers for Canto VII Part 3 below the cut.)

(EXTREMELY long post ahead.)

(You have been warned.)

SECTION 0: HERE WE GO AGAIN

The following post will assume you have both read my original theory and have played or otherwise experienced Canto VII's story content to its completion. If you haven't, you will be lost-- and worse, horrifically spoiled!

The Dream Ending is a brilliant canto that deserves your undivided, unspoiled attention.

That said, we're actually going to put Part 3 out of mind for a moment.

There's some aspects of the previous post I'd like to expand on first, as there are things I missed within Part 1 and 2 itself.

It's good to establish a solid base of information before we dive into the tasty new stuff Part 3 has shown us. If you need to refresh yourself on my thoughts regarding Part 1 and 2, this would be a good time to do so.

SECTION 1: WHAT DID I MISS?

You're finally awake! That Neutral clash looked pretty rough.

Huh?

Sancho boss fight? Binah Sapling of Light ability!? What are you talking about?

It's the 17th of October! Come on, Part 2 just released. Let's go fight Dulcinea!

SECTION 1.1: PRONOUNS

In my original post, I stated-- with no small amount of unearned authority-- that Bari was only ever referred to with they/them pronouns. This was incorrect, as I edited my post to add later.

At the time, it was fairly easy to miss... The 7-35 cutscene changed in the October 24th update. Before then, the only mention of Bari's gender in 7-35 was in this brief bit of dialogue by Sancho.

SANCHO: Will she be coming today? Again?

SANCHO: It is high time you put an end to this rivalry, isn't it? Or, hm. I fear that time is already long past.

...I must've replayed that cutscene no less than eight times while writing that post. I cannot BELIEVE this slipped through the cracks.

Well! I hope that doesn't strain my credulity going forward too much.

I do not believe this disproves that Bari could be Dante, though it does kneecap what I perceived as a shared trait of obscured gender identity.

Onwards and out, though.

Here's some things I simply didn't think to mention.

SECTION 1.2: RED, WHITE, BLACK, PALE

This is a weak bit of 'evidence,' but something I felt the need to point out regardless.

My assertion that Bari was seeking the river of human consciousness was pretty much just conjecture when I made my previous post. There admittedly wasn't very much linking her to the Seed of Light project that I could see.

For your consideration, though...

In Part 2's paper fight, we've given the opportunity to observe Bari's fighting style and capabilities though in a stylized medium.

We can see many of her Skills and their names, such as Dragon of the Spring, Lotus in Autumn, and Faint Trace.

What really interests me however, are these two.

Red Arwe and Blak Arwe.

The only place we have ever seen Red and Black damage in use are in Lobotomy Corporation.

Note I don't say the game, though. Black damage has appeared in Limbus Company, through the Fourth Walpurgisnacht's combat event. Let me show you.

The Violet Ordeal foes encountered past Mephistopheles' Backdoor also use Envy skills that inflict Mental Fracture.

During this event, the Sinners are somehow someway inside of Lobotomy Corporation HQ. So, it counts.

In Lobotomy Corporation-- the game this time-- Violet Ordeal related entities were one of many sources of Black damage, and it was in fact the only damage type Violet Dawn entities were capable of directly inflicting.

It's safe to say, yes, Blak Arwe is supposed to remind us of Black damage. Thus, Red Arwe is also Red damage.

According to Faust in this same Walpurgisnacht event, Red White Black and Pale damage are terms invented by Lobotomy Corporation itself.

Bari's skills including the terminology is, forgive the term, an abnormality.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that... her bow is somehow extracted E.G.O equipment, or something. It looks more like a fancy workshop weapon. I truthfully don't know how or why she can deal Red and Black damage, but it constructs a solid thematic link between Bari and the Seed of Light project-- and thus the river of human consciousness.

I just felt that particular assertion needed a bit more solid evidence.

Red, White, Black and Pale damage were actually intended to be in Library of Ruina, but this was scrapped. Presumably, guests from outside the Library would also be able to inflict RWBP damage, thus nullifying it as a concept solely associated with Lobotomy Corporation.

...But, you know. It was scrapped, so I don't need to care?

SECTION 1.3: LIBRARY OF RUINA BETA IMAGES

Hey, speaking of things that got scrapped from Library of Ruina! Didn't I just say cut content wasn't going to be considered?

I did, to be fair. But this is more of a meta comment on Bari's role in the Project Moon universe.

I'm not very comfortable showing too many images from the Library of Ruina artbook, because it is a paid product-- and a very good one at that.

The thought of maybe being right on the internet is about to override my moral code for a moment though, so check it out.

Originally, Library of Ruina was going to have a much different combat system. It involved little paper doll looking characters running at each other simultaneously to clash blades.

In motion, it might've looked quite similar to Limbus Company's unfocused encounters, actually.

The artstyle was a lot more simple back in the day, too. Check out these early combat sprites.

We have Myo and Kali, two important characters who were in Lobotomy Corporation. Makes perfect sense their sprites would get made first.

But bizarrely, we also have Bari.

(And... Esther from the Index for some reason? Don't worry about him)

Bari's final presence in Library of Ruina is fairly miniscule. She only appears for a brief cutscene during the optional Librarian of Death ending. And yet, Project Moon had plans for her so far in advance that, seemingly, her sprites for this battle system were made before ROLAND'S.

In other early screenshots, we can see that her sprite saw use as a placeholder asset for certain UI elements. I can't read Korean, so I don't know what this menu is saying, but I imagine she might've been a default Assistant Librarian.

Not an honour to be taken lightly, I assure you. The original dummy sprite, predating even the legendary Zwei fixer herself...

(And you'll get that joke if you buy the artbook!)

I'm not suggesting that there's some kind of deeplore with Bari and the Library by the way. I mean, beyond the existing deeplore with Bari and the Library. I'm not THAT far off the deep end this early into the post.

What I am suggesting is that Bari has heavy significance to the developers. The kind of significance the protagonist of their third game might share. I just don't think it's 'punching above her weight' so to speak to say she could be Dante.

Or, you know, perhaps plans changed. But no matter what, Bari was asserted as a very important character in this canto. It's good to track her development history when considering theories like this.

SECTION 1.4: SOMETHING OF A BIGWIG

We've talked about Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina so far. I GUESS we can talk about Limbus Company now. If you twist my arm.

We know very little about Dante's pre-clock life, but not nothing.

During 0-2, Introductions, Rodion says this after introducing herself to Dante.

RODION: I think there's a... well, good reason you became our manager.

RODION: I'm sure. You used to be a big deal back in the Nest, right? When your old habits start coming back, we'll be that much closer to rolling in the dough...

During 3-7, Siegfried, Vergilius says this while Siegfried is massacring the Sinners.

VERGILIUS: About time they learned what happens if they kick up a ruckus in a Nest thinking they can get away with it.

VERGILIUS: ...Dante, you may not remember it at the moment, but at one point you used to be something of a bigwig... so to speak.

DANTE: I... I was?

DANTE (NARRATION): I just couldn't picture it.

To be honest, it's difficult to imagine Bari being some kind of money-making high roller. She seems like a more self-effacing person than that.

But then, the Sinners don't know a lot about Dante's past either. It's possible Rodion heard that her new manager used to be a high grade Fixer in some nebulous Nest and got her hopes up.

Bari seemed to have incredibly impressive equipment, so she would've needed money to procure and maintain it somehow. If a requirement for being a Dante candidate is "being rich" I think Bari clears the bar.

I'm not yet comfortable saying she could've been a Colour, but from what we've seen she certainly could've been a Grade 2 or 1 Fixer. That's bigwig material.

SECTION 1.5: FAMILY

If you asked me to identify a singular theme that unites the Sinners, I would tell you one word.

Family.

Almost all of them have family related troubles in their past.

Don Quixote's familial strife with the Bloodfiends of La Manchaland.

Ryōshū's constant grumbling whenever someone so much as says the word family in earshot.

Meursault's mother, who according to his character promo he murdered.

Hong Lu, just like, as a concept.

Heathcliff, abandoned by his birth parents and hated by his adoptive family in Wuthering Heights.

Sinclair, whose family was butchered by Kromer.

Outis, presumably trying to get home to a Penelope and/or Telemachus left behind.

And Gregor's mother is the closest thing we currently have to a primary antagonist.

The only four Sinners who I cannot find this theme of family within are Yi Sang, Faust, Ishmael, and Rodion.

But even three of those I can explain readily enough.

Yi Sang's League of Nine was much like a family. As was Sonya's Yurodiviye and Ahab's Pequod crew, dysfunctional as they all ended up being.

Every Sinner has some kind of unit-- usually familial, but not always-- that they were either violently removed from, or left intentionally.

...Faust remains the exception, but then, that is much like her. Even then, her literary counterpart's strife with Gretchen's brother and the death of Faust and Gretchen's child may qualify her in the future.

I don't see why it would stop at just twelve of the thirteen Sinners. I assert that, to continue this theme, familial issues are required in a pre-amnesia Dante candidate.

Lucky for me, Bari fits that mould perfectly.

Nothing in Canto 7 outwardly suggests that Bari has any strife with her family, but her mythological counterpart absolutely does.

Princess Bari's exile from her family and her commitment to saving them regardless is the crux of her story. Her abandonment is so important to her character that she's named for it. Bari-degi. Abandoned child.

As of recently, the Sinners of LCB have felt a lot more comfortable travelling alongside each other.

When entering the Haunted: Bloody Mary attraction in La Manchaland, they make the family comparison for me.

SINCLAIR: It's been so long since I visited one of these haunted mansions...

SINCLAIR: The last time I was at a place like this, I thought when the next time came I'd be here with my family again. Not... all on my own like this.

RODION: All on your own? C'mon, kiddo. You're here with your coworkers~

HEATHCLIFF: Ahm. Coworkers who are... kinda like family, innit?

RYŌSHŪ: ...

Even Vergilius is starting to feel the love.

And speaking of Vergilius, he and Charon also have a busload of familial problems to contribute to the theme.

Anyone who's read Leviathan knows about the Tomerry incident. Lapis was a child in the care of Vergilius' old orphanage.

I can't prove logically why Bari would be Dante.

But I think what I can do is suggest that Bari being Dante would be narratively and emotionally fulfilling. And this is one of the ways it would be. It would continue the theme of lost family on Mephistopheles, which makes the growing found family among them all the sweeter.

SECTION 2: OCTOBER 24TH

Oh hey, Part 3 just released. From now on, we're knee-deep in spoiler territory. Last call.

So, my absolute most primeval fear going into Part 3 was that Bari was going to physically appear in person. Because if anything was going to obliterate my theory in one fell blow, it would be her having a conversation with Dante.

Good news for me, though. Bari only appeared in flashbacks, and never in the present moment.

But it honestly, truly begs the question, why NOT? Part 3 has only hammered down harder how much Bari has written herself into Sancho's soul. (Just look at her attack animations, seriously.)

The scene after Sancho's boss fight where we find out Sancho post-Lethe has been unknowingly swapping letters with Bari proves that their bond was mutual.

So, why is it that when La Manchaland screams open in P Corp, Bari doesn't investigate at all?

(And, no, this isn't her. Bari is not mentioned to be physically present after this. This is just a vision of Bari made through Sancho, since Dante and co. just proved a second ago that they're able to manipulate Quixote's Fathoms of Ego.)

Bari is alive. Bari didn't show up for La Manchaland. Even if you don't think she's Dante, that's weird! She must be somehow predisposed or unaware that La Manchaland had opened.

And if you don't think she's Dante, I'm glad that you're still entertaining my thoughts. Come with me just a little further. Now that we're in Part 3, we're going to address one last glaring omission from my first post.

SECTION 3: TEAM DEMIAN

"I'll now wait for the sun to set into the gloaming before nightfall."

We're dealing with a character clad completely in blue with mysterious sparkly blue powers.

...It's a miracle this is the first time I've mentioned Demian's name.

Indeed, even in Parts 1 and 2 there was evidence that Demian and Bari had some kind of association.

Sansón's dialogue icon has this bisexual gradient background that thus far had only been used for Demian and Rim.

Combine that with his blue colour scheme, immense power and general freakery, and yeah we're dealing with a member of Demian's weird little tea party.

Thus forth, I'll be referring to Demian's group as "Team Demian."

Sansón says this when giving Sinclair Bari's role in his stageplay.

SANSÓN: Well, then. We have another actor present here to play this character. A little green, a little incomplete, but still with the sign of great potential.

SANSÓN: I give this role of the Knight of the White Moon to you.

SINCLAIR: ...?

SINCLAIR: M-me?

DANTE (NARRATION): Sinclair held his forehead for a moment, then looked at his changed appearance in confusion.

Suggesting that the Sign made Sinclair a good fit for the Knight of the White Moon's role strongly implies that it was an attribute they shared.

That Sansón knew this-- and otherwise knew Bari well enough to write her into his stageplay-- indicates a connection between Bari and Sansón, and thus Bari and Team Demian.

Regarding Bari and the Sign...

(I had to fight Sancho five separate times in the making of this post. Project Moon, PLEASE make mid-battle cutscenes viewable in the Theater.)

Part 3 confirmed she had it.

It's my understanding that to see the Sign on others, you need to be a bearer of it yourself.

That Dante has seen Sinclair's Sign now and in the past, as well as Demian's, it means that they themself must be a Signbearer.

This is nothing new. But combined with the confirmation that Bari too was a Signbearer, it's yet another attribute they share.

In 2-19...

SONYA: Rodya, this will probably elude you, but you don't have the mark.

SONYA: I came here hoping you'd possess it, but I'm seeing it on some of your friends instead.

Being a Signbearer is apparently common enough that Sinners other than Sinclair and Dante also have it (assuming Sonya's definition of 'some' is more than two), but it's absolutely something to consider.

I had originally assumed that Demian appearing before Dante so often was solely because they both had the Sign. But then, why single out Dante?

There are other Sinners in LCB who have the Sign. But Demian has taken such a firm interest in Dante specifically.

In the Canto IV post-credits scene...

DEMIAN: Countless stars are in the sky. But they aren't all the same. If someone else saw them, they might have been nothing more than dim lumps of light.

DEMIAN: But someone who found the twinkle staggeringly charming took one of the stars...

DEMIAN: And hung it on a high enough place for everyone to see, expelling the dark.

DEMIAN: All the people would rejoice.

DEMIAN: Now, here's a question.

DEMIAN: What will become of me who has been robbed by me, and the star that's now forced to illuminate the dark forevermore?

DANTE: I...

DEMIAN: The mirror your friends use isn't any different. That is such a cruel piece of technology.

DEMIAN: Take your time with the answer. Just draw me a sheep later.

DEMIAN: You may not remember it right now... but you promised to.

Overall, it's actually extremely possible that Bari used to be a member of Team Demian.

She has the Sign, Sansón knew her, she's dressed in all blue, and she has some kind of mysterious blue gate power.

I would be shocked if she didn't have at least something to do with Demian. It might explain why Demian can understand what Dante says, if they have a past like this.

I'll admit upfront that she doesn't have the bisexual gradient background, though. Maybe in all the instances we see her talk, she hadn't yet joined Team Demian?

Or maybe the background just isn't as important as I've been thinking it is.

That kind of flippant speculation is going to serve us well going forward!! Because it's time for...

SECTION 4: THE LIGHTNING ROUND

What!? We've barely gotten started!

Don't worry, and don't go anywhere! The lightning round is NOT the end this time!

I've saving my juiciest evidence for last! For now, let's take a quick jog around the minor stuff Part 3 has yielded us!

It's my hope that these little pieces of evidence, while alone uncompelling, will paint a strong picture of the ties between Dante and Bari yada yada I've said this before let's go play Canto VI!

SECTION 4.1: FLOWERS

That's not a typo, I did mean VI. In the post-credits scene of Canto VI, Demian appears yet again. Because we're not done with that little weirdo.

(I'm not including this in the Demian section above because the purpose of that was to establish a logical connection between Dante, Bari and Demian. The lightning round's about tiny little themes!)

DEMIAN: Do you like flowers too, Dante?

DANTE: Um...

DANTE: I think I've come to like them.

DEMIAN: Imagine that there was a single rose you've cared for a long time.

DEMIAN: Your room was always brimming from the sweet aroma of that flower.

DEMIAN: But one day, you leave the rose behind to go on a long, long journey.

DEMIAN: In your journey, you come across a large garden... and there, you see thousands of the very same rose you once you [sic] cared for. That sight... brings you to tears, and you drop to your knees.

DEMIAN: ...Why do you suppose that is?

DANTE: ......

DANTE (NARRATION): Demian... he's appeared before me in the past. He would always leave me with these cryptic riddles.

DANTE (NARRATION): But I'm starting to understand what his riddles are supposed to represent.

DANTE: Because I've finally come to understand.

DANTE: That the one I truly loved was the rose I'd left behind.

DEMIAN: Correct.

Demian's cryptic icebreaker about Dante going on a journey that ends in finding a garden full of flowers reminds me of Bari quite a lot.

He isn't talking about Bari's journey specifically-- much more likely this, like the stars before, refers to an individual and all of their Mirror World Identities.

Still, Bari is a self-described flower hunter. I feel it'd be reckless to not at least note this down. That's what the lightning round is for!

SECTION 4.2 JIA XICHUN WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN PLEASE COME BACK AND EXPLAIN

Honestly just read this exactly as it happened

OUTIS: Don Quixote... Executive Manager... Amnesia has certainly made things difficult for many of us, hasn't it?

HONG LU: There are so many ways to erase people's memories in the City, after all.

JIA XICHUN: ...Yeah. There are plenty of ways to remove people's memories, and that's just counting what's public.

JIA XICHUN: The most common method is moving someone's memory into a different object, or a person. Some parts of the City even sell them as local products.

JIA XICHUN: Another is to completely destroy the memories. It's cheap, but because it comes with the risk of affecting other memories, only desperate Backstreets dwellers use this method.

JIA XICHUN: And... now we know the final method, which has so far been unknown, and remains inaccessible even now.

JIA XICHUN: The River of Oblivion... also known as Lethe.

JIA XICHUN: Drinking the waters of this River allows one to bury their memories beyond the veil of their consciousness, to the point where they become uncertain, hazy and dim like the memories of a dream.

HONG LU: So that's what you've been looking for... Xichun.

JIA XICHUN: Not exactly. It's a different stream, somewhere near the River of Oblivion.

JIA XICHUN: I suspect that the River I'm searching for has something to do with the immortality of the mind that our elders have been seeking so desperately.

HONG LU: Ah. To be free from aging and death, right?

(If you've been wondering why I'm speaking of a 200+ year old woman as though she could be alive today, there's your answer.)

JIA XICHUN: Yeah, that old, tiresome thing.

DANTE (NARRATION): Maybe... that's how my memories were removed.

DANTE (NARRATION): I don't even have a dreamy recollection of my memories; it's like they were uprooted straight from my head.

DANTE (NARRATION): So it's either been transferred to a different person or object...

DANTE (NARRATION): ...or it's been totally destroyed, forever unsalvageable.

DANTE (NARRATION): Still, I have no clue as to who, how or why anyone would do such a thing.

JIA XICHUN: ......

DANTE (NARRATION): Jia Xichun briefly glanced at me as my clock ticked on before turning her attention back to Hong Lu.

JIA XICHUN: That's why these scant traces of this 'Bari' are so important to me.

JIA XICHUN: I can't tell you in any greater detail, but I see them. I can see her ancient traces here.

HUH

Jia Xichun what does that MEAN. She goes on a long monologue about how extremely possible it is to erase someone's memories, takes a sideways glance at the Most Important Amnesiac and says "I can see the ancient traces of Bari here."

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN

WHAT DO YOU KNOW

DO YOU ALSO THINK DANTE IS BARI???

DO YOU ALSO HAVE A TWO PART EXTREMELY LONG TUMBLR POST???

PLEASE COME BACK HERE

I NEED TO KNOW

DO NOT LEAVE ME IN THIS VOID

WHERE I CANNOT FIND YOU

SECTION 4.3: JUST KIND OF THE WAY THEY ARE THEMSELVES

Pwfaaah. Sorry, that was unprofessional.

Let's pull ourselves together here. I'm getting slightly lost in the theory sauce.

I need to fall back on something objective before I further lose my mind. This update gave us a talk sprite for Bari finally, so obviously the very first thing I did was put it next to Dante's.

(Thank you Lunartique07 for the ripped assets! The Project Moon Google Drive has been an incredible boon.)

Plus some other Sinners for scale.

I chose Yi Sang and Heathcliff because they actually both just so happen to be standing in the exact same pose as Dante and Bari respectively.

Don Quixote isn't very helpful in that regard, but she heard some of the other Sinners were taking a group photo and really really wanted to be included.

Please understand.

The very tip of everyone's closest shoe is touching the green pixel at the exact same point, so this is even as I can get them.

I'm sure you've noticed that Bari and Dante don't appear to be the same height, but please consider the difference in posing. Dante and Yi Sang's shoes are mostly level, while Bari and Heathcliff both have their right foot a decent bit above their left.

They're at an angle, like so. Very slightly standing on the air.

This is going to skew perspective a little.

Even with that in mind however, Bari and Dante are extremely similar in both height and width. Bari is wearing a much thicker coat than Dante is. I'm willing to bet that if they both took their coats off, they would have pretty identical frames.

Thankfully, technology hasn't advanced far enough for us to see for ourselves.

The fact that there's a discrepancy in height at all means this little factoid got lightning round'ed. I can't really in good conscious consider this hard and fast evidence. Pretty Cool Though!

SECTION 4.5: MOST UNFAIR

I'm sure you remember this scene from the very beginning of Canto VII.

[Complete darkness. Yellow text appears in the middle of the void.]

The night approacheth with great haste;

Yet thou shalt hew open a path, cleaving the shadows in twain,

With the blessings and approval of they family of which there is no equal,

Challenge and vanquish all things perilous,

And at last--reach true happiness;

Thus how indubitable,

The magnificence with which mine ingenious adventures of to-day shall shine.

Which is... our adventure, as well.

You remember the words, right? A Fixer must maintain a head clear of corruption, speech free of deceit, and conduct guided by clemency.

Show courage in adventure, and bear pain in suffering.

And pray, forget not the mercy for the downtrodden...

...and last but not least...

...Pursue your dream, even if it means wagering your life in the chase.

Should you ever fail to stand by even one of these tenets...

I'll smack you guys upside the head myself.

Steel yourself and always, always keesp moving forward.

Is that not...

...a threat most unfair?

[We fade back into the P Corp WARP train platform. Present moment.]

DON QUIXOTE: Manager Esquire... how unfair of thee...!

DANTE: ......

DON QUIXOTE: Most unfair, I say...!!!

DANTE: What is it this time...?

Something I need to note is that the white text above is delivered through the narration box in a manner identical to Dante's internal monologue.

This is far from the only time this happens in the game. Even later this canto, Sancho borrows Dante's narration box for a while. Just keep that in mind, still.

In a lovely bit of circular narrative storytelling, during the Don Quixote boss fight, we see this cutscene again.

Only this time, we can see who is talking.

The scene plays out like before. We see that the yellow voice was Don Quixote, and the white voice in the narration box was Bari all along.

It's not exactly the same scene, but it's undeniably Bari both times. It's the same voice actor.

So what would this suggest, I ask you?

When Bari, in the style of Dante's inner monologue, says she'll 'smack you guys upside the head'?

When Don Quixote says that's a threat most unfair?

And when we fade back in, Don Quixote is telling Dante that they've been most unfair?

...This proves nothing. Listen, I want to make one thing crystal clear.

I'm not stupid. I know that this is an incredibly simple narrative convention. It does NOT prove that Dante is Bari.

Just because the two scenes spliced together-- just because Bari was called unfair one moment and Dante the next, it doesn't mean ANYTHING.

Because it could just be a fun little moment of storytelling. One character being called unfair in one scene and another in the next does not necessarily mean they're the same person.

But the fact that it is Bari and Dante feels intentional, doesn't it?

When put next to every other bit of evidence we have so far, are you able to say in full honesty that I'm seeing things? Jumping at shadows where there aren't any? Tilting at windmills?

If you still think that, then I'm glad you've stayed with me anyway.

So please stay with me a little longer,

and allow me to cut through your reservations once and for all.

SECTION 5: FOUNDING LCB AND THE PROMISE:

"Dear the most valorous Fixer of the Zwei, How farest thee? 'Tis my hundred-and-thirty-first letter. Prithee, excuse my persistence. 'Tis merely that my passion cannot well be doused. I am soon to be a Fixer myself. And with thy teachings, I shall become a Fixer most just as persistent who doth not know surrender."

VERGILIUS: I believe I've afforded you sufficient restraint.

A red hot gladius rends the seal on her cradle in two.

...

VERGILIUS: My old... friend has told me that you are a Second Kindred.

...

VERGILIUS: The Fixers on these posters... They're all from at least several decades ago. It is as my fellow has told me. So much of her slumbers... even her instinctive craving for blood.

...

VERGILIUS: I am the guide who will bring you all to the right path.

VERGILIUS: You must come with me, for this journey demands your company. In return...

VERGILIUS: ...when the time is right, the promised timepiece shall come to be by your side.

SANCHO: Promised...?

VERGILIUS: Yes. You are bound to a promise, just as I am.

VERGILIUS: So...

SANCHO: Gasp...

VERGILIUS: Remember these eyes.

VERGILIUS: Remind yourself time and again every time you look into these eyes that hold the blood of a generation higher than your own.

SANCHO: I... have nary a clue as to whatever it is that--

VERGILIUS: I speak of the promise that will one day return to you when the time is right.

VERGILIUS: Remember it, so that the unforgettable promise will one day return to you, so that you may keep it when the time comes. Even as it eludes you now.

This scene is seen at the beginning of Part 3, as LCB enter the Fathoms of Ego.

Isn't it weird?

The conversation doesn't flow naturally. Vergilius talks about his eyes, and then cuts Sancho off and continues talking about the promise out of nowhere.

A long, long time later, following Sancho's boss fight, we see this scene again.

But something has changed.

Something that was intentionally omitted from Sansón's telling of this scene.

VERGILIUS: You must come with me, for this journey demands your company. In return...

VERGILUS: ...when the time is right, the promised timepiece you once heard shall come to be by your side.

(Note the addition. "timepiece you once heard' was not in Sansón's telling.)

VERGILIUS: Even when you feel like giving up on yourself.

VERGILIUS: So I promise you this.

VERGILIUS: That one day, you will return to the beginning of all things...

VERGILIUS: ...and tell them all about the adventures you've had.

This was the moment I knew I had it.

This was the moment I chambered my silver bullet.

When the time is right, the timepiece will come to be by your side. And you can tell them all about the adventures you've had.

Could he have been talking about both Bari and Don Quixote?

Sure, maybe. Sancho does tell Don Quixote about her adventures as he lays dying.

But that's only one way to read this sentence.

I think 'them' refers to the promised timepiece. To Dante.

This part of his speech was important enough to be omitted from the first version of the scene we saw.

Important enough to save for the very end of the canto.

In P Corp's backstreets, Vergilius said something to Dante that confused them.

VERGILIUS: ...Your hands have stopped trembling. I'll take that as a sign that we have an understanding.

VERGILIUS: Should you ever find yourself growing anxious in La Manchaland, when things start to go awry...

VERGILIUS: Remember these words.

VERGILIUS: Henceforth, whatever happens...

[Vergilius smiles.]

VERGILIUS: ...Don Quixote will remember the promise, Dante.

DANTE (NARRATION): The promise.

DANTE (NARRATION): I have no idea how that word is supposed to assuage any of my fears.

DANTE (NARRATION): Vergilius isn't the type to waffle on meaninglessly, so...

DANTE (NARRATION): ...I suppose there isn't anything else I can gather from him at the moment.

Dante is right. Vergilius is a man of few words-- he says what he needs to say, and that's it.

But Vergilius is also a deeply sentimental person.

If he gave advice to Dante that meant nothing to them, it must've meant something to HIM.

I assert that the promise Vergilius is referring to is this one.

BARI: Remember? We promised to meet again once each of our adventures are complete...

SANCHO: ...and tell one another all about our adventures.

Dante's number one fear throughout the La Manchaland mission was that the reveal of Sancho's true nature would irreparably tear the Sinners' bond apart.

That is what Vergilius is reassuring them against.

That Sancho promised to always be their friend. To meet with them when all was said and done.

She'll remember that promise. She won't drift away from you.

This would require Vergilius to not only be aware of Bari, but familiar enough with her to understand the promise she made with Sancho and Don Quixote.

And I can prove that he was.

VERGILIUS: The build of this place is quite durable, my lady.

VERGILIUS: It should be able to withstand assaults from any pursuing Bloodfiends... no, even Bloodfiend Hunters.

VERGILIUS: It is an entirely different question if they can make it this far down to this Ruin, of course.

VERGILIUS: My old... friend has told me that you are a Second Kindred.

...

VERGILIUS: The Fixers on these posters... They're all from at least several decades ago. It is as my fellow has told me. So much of her slumbers... even her instinctive craving for blood.

...

VERGILIUS: Your adventures with them are unimportant. And you won't have to listen to these Fixers anymore. Because...

VERGILIUS: ...doesn't an adventure guided by me, a Fixer bestowed with the title of a Colour... sound much better than any of that?

In Sansón's stageplay...

BARI (SINCLAIR): "Once we find the river..."

BARI (SINCLAIR): "I will guide you to the place that will be your residence henceforth."

BARI (SINCLAIR): "An abandoned lighthouse where no one visits."

BARI (SINCLAIR): "Please, make that place your home."

Only Bari should've known where Sancho's cradle was.

Only Bari could've told Vergilius where to find her, that she was a Second Kindred who erased her own past, that her craving for blood was suppressed by Rocinante, and exactly how to get her to join LCB.

Because Vergilius pulls rank as a Colour Fixer, and it immediately entices Sancho.

This gives us three things simultaneously.

One. Vergilius and Bari were 'old friends.'

Two. Vergilius could've known about the promise Sancho and Bari made.

And, three, it gives us reason to believe that Bari was willingly contributing to the formation of LCB.

Because she told Vergilius where to find Sancho. Because Vergilius knew what to say to recruit her.

We know for a fact that pre-amnesia Dante was cooperating with Limbus Company, because they were already wearing the uniform when they lost their memories in the dark forest.

We're so close. We have so much.

Katabasis.

Resurrection.

Visions of the past and visions of the future.

Stories of future cantos.

Association with literature.

Pre-amnesia power.

The river of human consciousness.

Family.

Similarities in sprites.

The Sign.

Team Demian.

Cooperation with the formation of LCB.

The promise.

I have just one more thing to share. One last section.

One last narrative commonality between Bari and Dante before I bid you goodbye.

SECTION 6: ANTICIPATION

DON QUIXOTE: Tomorrow is a promise that does not hinge on your blessing.

BARI: No, no. That's not the tomorrow I'm talking about. I'm talking about the 'tomorrow' you seek.

BARI: You've been living out your days mired in meaninglessness, quietly wasting away inside.

BARI: Drinking human blood, compelled not by your own will but by your sickness. In your countless years of existence...

BARI: ...you've never had any reason to exist, have you?

BARI: But your illness... and this applies to all of your kind... is loneliness.

BARI: It's the kind of suffering you can't weather through by huddling together with your Family in the dark.

BARI: So I offer you this.

BARI: Anticipation for what tomorrow holds.

BARI: In other words... a dream.

BARI: I can make you dream.

SANCHO: The adventure... has ended.

SANCHO: And thus, so did my dream.

SINCLAIR: It's not over yet.

SINCLAIR: We're pretty major characters in your adventures too, you know?

SINCLAIR: You can't just... end this story without even asking its cast.

SANCHO: So stupid...

DANTE (NARRATION): Her words of denial are tinged with something new, something we hadn't heard in what felt like forever.

DANTE (NARRATION): Anticipation.

Twice over, they reach for a Bloodfiend who has no reason to be.

Gifting them the anticipation to see what comes tomorrow. To adventure, and to dream.

It isn't just Dante, the second time. All of the Sinners come together to find that anticipation for Sancho.

But who is it that drives it home?

Who is it that lights her way?

Who is it that thinks to inspire Sancho by telling her a story?

DANTE (NARRATION): I know what to do. The flow I must find, the flow I must hitch myself to.

DANTE: However...

DANTE: Don Quixote, who despaired that this moment was to be the end of her tale...

DANTE: Still refused to give up.

[Faust smiles.]

FAUST: ......

History repeats and Bari's role is reprised, and by Dante. By the rest of the Sinners too, but especially by Dante.

Because at the end of the long battle against him, Don Quixote says this. Completely unaware of the dramatic irony in his words.

DON QUIXOTE: Alas, it appears that we are not availed the benevolent, mediating force of Bari to quell our quarrels. Then I suppose we are at an impasse, want of a better mediation...

DON QUIXOTE: ...than one wrought by force.

I assert that he is wrong.

I assert that the narrative completed itself. A perfect circular structure, like so many aspects of this canto.

Atop La Manchaland, all but two Sinners are dead. Only three were alive to witness what happened next.

Exactly as it began.

Only Sancho, her father Don Quixote, and the White Moon beside them.

It's the same scene.

Bari and Don Quixote called out their names, and clashed in a brilliant shining light.

Sancho and Don Quixote called out their names, and clashed in a brilliant shining light.

It was Bari that made him dream.

And it was Dante that made her dream.

Anticipation. The final, ultimate theme that they share.

And after all was said and done, after La Manchaland was reduced to a pouring torrent of blood, the Sinners boarded Mephistopheles once again.

Ready to gallop onto the next canto of their story.

But first, Don Quixote said something to Dante.

DON QUIXOTE: Prithee, regard me not with such an expression.

DANTE: I... don't have an expression, let alone a face.

DON QUIXOTE: All of existence, from the swaying flowers in the meadows to the rolling pebbles in a stream... has emotions.

DANTE (NARRATION): What expression did she read from me, I wonder.

DON QUIXOTE: I beseech thee, smile.

DON QUIXOTE: For all of this is but a merry dream.

DANTE (NARRATION): No one thinks about what awaits them at the end of the journey when embarking on an adventure.

DANTE (NARRATION): But that unknown future, twinkling so tantalizingly...

DANTE (NARRATION): ...is what inevitably draws us to venture toward them.

DANTE (NARRATION): So...

DANTE (NARRATION): ...I guess I'll smile, like Don Quixote asked me to.

DANTE (NARRATION): Smile with anticipation for what tomorrow holds.

I hope I've given you a lot to think about.

No matter what, I think Dante and Bari are both immensely interesting characters, and I believe whatever Project Moon does with both of them will be more satisfying than whatever little old me can think of.

I cannot prove that Bari is Dante. But I can maybe convey that, if she turned out to be, It would be a well foreshadowed and thematically consistent reveal, more so than any other existing candidate.

This is a long pair of posts. And you read all of it. If you have any feedback to add to my theory, please include it in a reply!

I would love nothing more than to hear from you.

#project moon #limbus company #canto 7 spoilers #canto vii spoilers #dante lcb #theoryposting #long post #canto 7 #canto vii #limbus company spoilers

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causeimcrayzeebee · 2 months ago

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MAJOR DRDT CHP 2 EP 16 SPOILERS

hey guys what the FUCK JUST HAPPENED. holy SHIT. never ask a gay person what happened October 5th 2024.

first can i say that the execution was phenomenal. i miss ace SO MUCH already but goodness the ending hurt. i had a feeling he’d die of fear once the execution started but that did NOT make it any easier to watch. holy shit.

i love how much self reflection happened. Ace, after all this time of being unable to repent for the harm he caused, instilled that motivation to be better into Arturo to save Levi’s life. from being called a coward by teruko to calling someone else on their cowardlyness was honestly kind of cathartic to see. ngl im excited to see what’s ahead for arturo after this!!

despite Teruko’s whole speech about how she won’t die, Levi jumped in to save her. he says he doesn’t understand human empathy but this was pretty damn close. even tho she assured everyone she’d be fine, Levi tried to save her anyways, but again it could just be driven by his need to do what he thinks a good person would do. praying he survives cause holy shit. him saying that he doesn’t understand Ace and Ace trying to push him away even more really stung….

MonoTV’s reset actually caught me so off guard. i kinda love it tho, it really displays the tone shift. ofc this killing game has been fucked up from the start, but it’s gotten even darker now as the main source of humor as well as comical incompetence is no longer who we knew it as. very likely that monotv won’t have another slip up like losing who’s motive is who’s again next chapter.

terukos development…. holy shit. I can’t stop saying holy shit bc tbh all of these are my thoughts immediately after finishing it and im still recovering from shock so take these with a grain of salt. i absolutely love how her arc has gone. as many have said previously, Ace is an example to Teruko what the isolation she forced herself through can do to people. Ace is the tragedy that could befall her as well. not to make things about percy jackson, but it’s very akin to the luke and percy foils (ik it’s not the same thing really I just wanted to mention their character foils) Arei is one side of the coin, and Ace, and Teruko if she kept going how she was before this trial, are the other. Arei was able to own up to her mistakes, and the others weren’t.

There’s also something that really displays their similarities when Teruko has to stay behind to cry because she’s too cowardly to face the group this way. Might just be because of timing but yk just a thought. Teruko was essentially admitting of guilt for Xander’s death and missing him, as well as Min. It really is easier to pretend as if everything is out of your control, even when you could have done something. Teruko has to learn about what’s beyond her dichotomy of blame and fate.

okay guys. let’s get this out of the way. um. this sprite is NOT helping you beat the mastermind allegations Whit. I actually jumped out of my seat seeing this sprite, it was actually quite horrifying to witness this. in response to Min’s execution, Whit had hardly much of a reaction, which has been a bit suspicious but likely has to do with how he grieves considering his mother. This tho…. i can’t tell if it makes him more or less suspicious (genuinely if anyone wants to talk about things that either prove or disprove Whit mastermind theories pls go ahead im so interested in what people think cause im at a loss). but like…. why is his hand behind him. what is he doing.

genuinely so wild how this whole time, Whit has only show a significant amount of care for Charles. yea i love charwhit they gay as hell, but even so, this specific focus that Whit has when it comes to Charles is something that, if Whit really is the mastermind or even just a traitor, it could be reaaaallllyyy bad news for Charles. I would not be surprised if he was trying to get close to Charles to make it hurt as much as possible when he revealed himself to be the mastermind or something of that nature. Or it could just be him having grown an attachment to Charles in some way (again pls lmk what you think about whit!!!) We’re not getting the happy love story we want but what did we expect when it’s a fanganronpa.

so yeah those are my thoughts on the ending of chapter 2! I planned to do a quick funny post and yet here i am writing analysis for half an hour. goodness. anyways to make up for funny post, i saw this part of Ace’s execution and my first thought was bungo stray dogs reference (crowd starts booing).

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dnpbeats · 2 months ago

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Yeah its so weird. People act as if the reason dan left and the issue dnp had with privacy was that people shipped them and wrote fanfic. Outside of like 2011/12 when dan had a (in his own recount) freakout because people were clocking him, they did not give a fuck at any point about the shipping or the theories. That is clearer now than ever, as they have a whole tour based around it and are actively encouraging it because they find it funny. What they did care about was when people reached out to their friends and family, harrasing those peoples social medias, because they didnt choose to put themselves on the internet, dnp did. What they did care about was the fact that apparently some fans figured out where they lived and used that info to go to their first flat in london and knock on the door to talk to them. Like. Thats invading privacy. Looking at a twitter account that was and has been public for 15 years, and cross matching it with things that have been publicly said and posted is not breachibg privacy? Thats? Not the same thing???

lmao thank you lmao like? I'm convinced that anytime someone says "this is giving demon phannie we are going back to 2014 and they're gonna leave again" they were not actually here for that era bc like 😭😭 d&p have been clear they dgaf about theories, espc recently. ppl just have no media literacy when it comes to what dan said in BIG

but honestly even if ppl still don't like the research I honestly don't care they have the right to not like it, what actually pissed me off the most was that the ppl who were talking shit seemed to be operating under the assumption that the dan being philslion theory existed for forever, then d&p denied it so I came along and decided to disprove what they said after the fact. which is just not fucking what happened like the doc IS the theory. basically no one was saying it was dan before I posted all the proof, no one would have asked them about it if it wasn't for my posts 😭 if you're gonna shit talk me go ahead but at least have your facts straight first, it takes .5 seconds to see the dates I posted everything like lol

#seems to be a theme in my life rn one of my friends made me cry last weekend bc she was making baseless assumptions that I was #being completely selfish towards our other friend and as soon as I was like 'that's not what happened' she was like 'omg im so sorry I didn #have all the info' GIRL THEN WHY WOULDNT U JUST ASK ME???? RATHER THAN ASSUMING I FUCKING SUCK?#im sorry that's so off topic from this anyway #guys also the person who called me crazy is literally mutuals w/ me on twitter and they didnt even unfollow me 😭 like what #ask #anon #d&p #dan and phil #phan #philslion

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readypanda · 6 months ago

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Indigo Park Spoilers (and very long post) ahead

Since Indigo Park is the newest fandom I've been dipping into, I figured I might as well make my own analysis for the game. The question I'll be discussing today is,

WHAT EVEN ARE THESE THINGS?

(sry for bad picture quality lol)

The thing I find interesting about these mascots (Molly, Lloyd, and what we've seen of Finley) that kind of sets them apart from other monsters in the mascot horror genre is...they almost seem like they're just animals. (I'll go over evidence for this in this post)

Think about it. In other mascot horror games, we've gotten:

animatronics possessed by dead children

employees/kids surgically(?) turned into toys

people mutated by a giant ink machine

animals/people who have had their DNA spliced with a mutagenic chemical

A little girl somehow turned into a monster (I think??)(really sorry Amanda I don't know what you are)

etc.

(I'm not up to date on all these properties and I know there's many more, so forgive me if my lore understanding is less than adequate. you know how it is with indie horror)

The important note about all these is that for the most part, these mascots are intelligent, or at least have the capability of intelligence. Almost everything on this list was at one point human, in fact.

So why do I think Indigo Park is any different? What leads me to believe they aren't intelligent? (at least, the animal versions of the characters that we run from in the game. Whether they are separate from the versions of the characters Rambley interacts with is something I'll touch on later)

I think the most obvious piece of evidence in regards to Molly and Lloyd (again, not much info on Finley yet) is how Lloyd acts. He doesn't talk at all, he just stalks the main character and attacks like an animal might (with the exception of a couple times he stands on two legs or props himself up here and there).

As for Molly, I hear you saying, "But she talks! We hear her speak!" And yes, dear reader, you are right. Molly does speak. This would disprove my argument of the mascots being purely animalistic, if it weren't for this kill screen.

Now, do we ever actually hear Molly say something that isn't a repetition or couldn't reasonably be a repetition? Has she said anything to prove her intelligence at all? (genuine question here because I haven't examined every one of her voice lines lol. If I'm wrong about this then whoopsie!)

Despite the past 250 words of speculation, though, whether they act just like animals isn't actually that important. We'll see more of them in later chapters anyway (or Lloyd and Finley at least) so that will likely prove or disprove this point with time.

The more interesting question is, what are they? Like, physically?

When Molly dies, we clearly see blood around her decapitated head. At the very least that rules out animatronics or something mechanical. In addition, in the audio of the hidden tape you get when you show Rambley one of the collectables, you can hear two staff members complaining about being replaced by "new mascots" right after they "got a new raccoon costume." This could mean a few different things, but it seems to imply that the mascots we see in this chapter are meant to be replacements for actors in suits (for meet and greets, promotion, shows, etc) and/or replacements for limited, expensive, and cumbersome animatronics. If this is true, we can also probably rule out them being human. Unless Indigo Park also had a secret human experimentation lab, which I wouldn't put past them.

I think it's too early to definitively state what these mascots are, but based on the evidence of above, I have a theory.

My personal theory is that these mascots are just animals who have been changed or mutated in some way to allow the park to have more "realistic" representations of the characters (also probably to cut down on the costs of paying a human employee). That would explain why they act the way they do and why they are so violent. They literally are just wild animals who have been warped to represent these cartoon characters.

Another important caveat to this theory is that, if this is true, then the mascots who attack us in the game are most likely NOT Rambley's "friends" as he knows them. That would explain why he doesn't call attention to Molly chasing us or Molly's dead body (with the exception of one very small reaction when he talks about the mascots). You would expect him to seem a little more upset if he thought that was his friend, but maybe on some level he knows it's not really her, just a representation of her.

That brings up another question, which is a can of worms I won't fully open here: Do Molly, Lloyd, and Finley have sentient "AI" equivalents like Rambley? If not, does Rambley know his friends aren't real? I'll let you decide.

Anyway, that just about closes my thoughts on this silly raccoon game. Thanks for letting me ramble on about it, and thanks for making it to the end of the post!

Lemme know about your own theories in regards to what these things are, or if there's any key evidence I missed. Kinda threw this together lol. Most of it will likely get disproven by future chapters but hey, thus is the price of theorizing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#indigo park #indigo park theory #indigo park spoilers #uniquegeese #mascot horror #I should probably like actually play through the game myself and maybe make an addendum to the post if I find anything new #since you can only get so much info second-hand #maybe ill make a post dump about random details i noticed #it was annoying to find the tape recording #I don't know if anyone has uploaded the full clip by itself to youtube

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voidedaurora · 2 months ago

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I've been keeping my actual posts about this minimal for the time being because of some things behind the scenes but I've just been sent this mess of an announcement she's made in her discord and I thought I'd say something about it

(yes mel, I AM going to break this down considering you have a tendency to lie and skew things and say weird shit that gets looked over otherwise)

SS #1

First of all. What are you trying to do here, Garner pity? trying to get SYMPATHY and leniency for actions YOU made, things YOU did. Trying to garner sympathy as if you're the one that's been victimized in this whole thing, as much as you'd like to see yourself as a victim you are not!

Being called out for terrible things YOU'VE done does not make you a victim and does not give you any passes for anything.

Its understandable to be stressed, but you're putting this on yourself by trying to disprove things that simply cannot be because these are things that've actually happened, not random BS to take you down.

The easiest and best thing you could've and still can do in this situation is admit your wrongs and get off the internet to live in REAL life for a little and maybe seek some help for your mental so you cant hurt anyone else.

SS #2

Now this is just a bit odd? I know for a fact you do not have any "hidden answers everyone's looking for" bc most things of note have been presented (at least from me personally) and have already PROVEN these things did indeed happen?

(excluding the few things that were in vc unrecorded)

Things will never go back to normal, you cant even pin this on being a "stupid kid" anymore because this is behavior that has spanned across YEARS and YEARS now with no change, whenever people have tried to help you, push you in the right direction, directly explained something you're doing is wrong, etc. You've been mean and unwilling to hear anyone out and would rather live your life a hateful individual that gets to do whatever she wants without consequences or any real responsibility and attempt to improve yourself.

SS #3

From the time I knew you you did not bother to let people tell you when you were wrong and would get EXTREMELY aggressive and defensive when anyone would, you never took the time to understand when you did something wrong (outside of 1 or two instances) and would just do the same things again and again regardless of whether it was wrong or right just because you can, so ofc you wouldn't understand its wrong. you didn't care

As a minor myself (17, going on 18) I know where my boundaries are when speaking to people younger and know when and where not to cross that line BEFORE being an adult, so what's your excuse?

People don't expect you to "know everything" just the bare minimum of not being a fucking weirdo to minors, not sexually using people, and to have a little common sense.

It does not matter whether your old friend groups (WITH PEOPLE A YEAR BEHIND OR AHEAD OF YOU IN AGE) had sexual jokes normalized or not, you wouldn't go into a elementary school and start making sex jokes in front of minors irl right, because those are children, or would your humor that overrides normal common sense force you to make those jokes anyway? Seriously.

And spoiler (from what I've been told and shown by khai)

She still to this day makes sex jokes and remarks around and to her friends despite in private acknowledging she should stop acting like this. Its honestly disgusting she can allegedly have acknowledged to Khai that what she was doing is wrong, only to continue making jokes and doing things she shouldn't around her.

SS #4

This is Equally as weird as the rest of her response previously, I see where her intentions are but the way she's worded and executed it leaves such a bad taste in my mouth considering the nature of what she's been called out for (Being sexual around/to minors, Sexual abuse, etc)

Making the server 18+ would've been a great show of growth and intent to correct things from you if you hadn't gone "There'd still be some people underage within the server" , It's genuinely the weirdest way you could go about doing this, if you're making ANYTHING 18+ you cannot be allowing the people that are >18 to stay in, that completely defeats the purpose of upping the servers age considering 80% of the fans that'd even be joining your server and interacting are ALREADY going to be in there and verified.

This is basically like going "I'll make it 18+ but my fav minors can stay in!". If you were making your server 17+ and wanted to keep a couple 16 yr olds that are turning 17 soon in (and there was no nsfw in the server) that'd be okay! but when you're making anything 18+ that implies there's enough mature content in there to warrent it being 18+ and wouldn't be ok to keep minors in for that reason.

SS #5

No comment honestly, you did this to yourself and could've saved yourself and many others time and energy by admitting your wrongdoings, getting off the internet, and getting help instead of making up shit and trying to save face now that you've finally been seriously called out.

Must suck finally getting repercussions for your actions after years of being too "untouchable" for anyone to say something.

I've made my thoughts quite clear here, Do not go harass Quartelz or any of her friends. You may voice your opinions but please do so with humanity and maturity.

As much as you'd like me to "burn out" Mel, You're not gonna get what you want and I will keep fighting for people to see the real person you are and for you to get the consequences you've been owed for years now.

If you want to try and talk to me about everything that is still an option but It will not make me magically forgive or take back anything I've said or will say.

(unless there was a genuine misunderstanding with some part, but I highly doubt this since I've tried to keep everything I say as PROVABLE as possible)

#quartelz #🍉

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fountainpenguin · 4 months ago

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Riddle watches New Wish - Post #16

Battle of the Dimmsonian

I want to highlight them specifically. Look at that FOP-style fairy boy! Baby's all grown up!

Jasmine and Winn are so ready to party at the museum sleepover.

Oh, they are SO ready for this (Also).

slifdj, Peri looking ahead, noticing Cosmo and Wanda in disguise, and screaming "MY PARENTS?!?"

What the heck, Fairywinkle-Cosmas? You left your son for 10k years? Why? Look at him; he's got anxiety!!!

Dev: I haven't talked to Hazel since our fight :'( I need to get to her. /apparently doesn't talk to her all day and now it's night and he's trying to scare people with ghosts for no reason

Removing the staff during the sleepover night (after a spooky presentation) seems like something a museum would totally do as a prank.

Peri has been onscreen for like 2 minutes and he's already sad inside.

-> Hey, I think he outgrew his fear of the dark!

Dev, I am begging you to make it clear to the audience what you're doing right now. This is not an apology. This is not close to what you said you were going to do earlier??

-> Confirmation Dev is Peri's first assignment, so my "high school trial run" lore hasn't been disproven yet. I can work with that in 'fic. We'll see if he says he's graduated.

-> I do have a fanfic set-up where he's going to do a trial program as Foop's partner when they're still in Spellementary, but I don't think this disproves that either since that's a very supervised experiment for him (It's their extracurricular).

I don't think I've said it, but I really enjoy the way this art style has been handling the hairstyles. These angles of Peri's swirl are really interesting.

Peri... Don't take this the wrong way, but if you can't handle Dev being mildly needy and pushy, you're not ready for the big leagues.

idk, Peri strikes me as WAY too overconfident. He showed up ready to go a couple episodes ago. This is the first time he's back onscreen, and this immediate crash on his end is just proof to me that his inexperienced little tail doesn't know what he's doing.

Peri is the guy who's super hype for kids because he thinks they'll be cute and fun, but he's unprepared for work and responsibility. I'm getting "Tries to avoid changing diapers and/or feels smug about how little housework he does" vibes.

-> What decade is he designed after? Cosmo was designed with 50s aesthetic and I feel like this is actually on-brand for attitudes during Peri's aesthetic parallel time period. lol.

-> It's not like Poof was doing the hard work of godparenting when he was a baby. This is new for him and probably different than he fondly remembers.

-> I looked it up and apparently suspenders made a comeback in the 1980s. I designed my teen Poof for the late 60s-early 70s (and he's my flower child), but it makes total sense that he'd be a little farther forward in time since Cosmo and Wanda weren't allowed to have kids for the first 10k years of their marriage.

- Yeah, I would look at this man and say he's giving me "macho 1980s breadwinner husband who has a fragile ego regarding his manliness and doesn't do his own laundry" energy. - Please tell me he started dating Goldie and she broke up with him because he's not good with stress and now he's clingy and wants her back; "He lost the pretty girl because he wouldn't pull his weight" would be the funniest possible direction to take their relationship - I might need to write a 'fic about Goldie showing up while Dev is out and she and Peri have a fight where he's groveling and begging and then Dev walks in and he's like "... Oh boy, I can't wait to have a business relationship with this guy."

Peri came to this party like "I grew up with Timmy Turner. My grandma teaches godparenting classes. I even did a trial run with Mrs. Crocker... I know the ropes! :)"

-> His crown did not know the ropes.

Diagnosed "would not take full custody in the divorce."

Peri, I cannot be any clearer that you can't behave this way around a neglected child right after establishing yourself as a trustworthy figure he can rely on. If this plot goes in the direction of Peri throwing in the towel (or snapping at Dev), I'm gonna crack up.

Like, at this point I am 100% expecting Peri to yell at Dev (maybe not this episode, but someday), and that's going to break this kid. I feel like Jorgen might get involved and separate them, unless Peri is desperate to "not have a failure on his record" or something (seeing as he seems embarrassed his parents know he's a godparent.

-> idk what's up with that yet. I'm genuinely confused. Peri, this is your first chance to see your parents since they dipped for 10k years. I can't get a read on your feelings. Are you angry? Did they invite you and you said No? How old were you? Did you grow up with Mama Cosma? Big Daddy? Boarding school? Inquiring minds need to know!

Maybe it's not been 10k years for him? Was he still existing in the slower-moving present day? Maybe Peri embarked on his own 10k-year trip? I'm puzzled.

-> I feeeeeeel like the time travel is a convenient plot device for the purpose of aging him up without jumping us forward to a more destroyed planet, and we're not going to get a straight answer about what happened with him, which is a shame.

Hmm. I suspect we're not going to delve into his backstory, but I'll hold out hope. Why throw that in there if you're not going to discuss it, though?

Did I miss something? Why does Dev think he doesn't need friends when earlier he wanted to talk to Hazel? Huh. I feel like there's a missing scene there. Hazel rejecting his attempt at an apology would've been helpful for me.

For some reason it's funny to me that the Tooth Fairy offered Peri a job, which he turned down. My brain immediately went Peri -> Cosmo is his dad -> Jorgen is Cosmo's distant relative but they refer to each other as cousins -> Tooth Fairy is Jorgen's wife. I wonder if they hung out together sometimes at like, extended family reunions or something.

-> von Strangles are big on family and Cosmo and Wanda kinda dipped out on theirs, so...

-> omfg, Mama Cosma is out there somewhere like that meme of the guy in the chair leaning over way far, head in her hands, because this is the 2nd time she lost her baby for 10k years. Left to get milk (Again).

He's so cute. I'm so glad to see him back in the series; I missed him so much. He's always been a favorite for me, which was largely based on my own 'fics, so it's really cool to see a character I love showing a wider range of personality onscreen.

HAZEL! If you weren't mad at Dev anymore, you should've told him! He's been miserable about you yelling at him without giving him a chance to share his side!!

His tushie cannot read minds!!

Dev is the kid that you want to get in a fight with because he's mean but then he looks at you like this and you're like " :| "

-> I hate that this is likely how Dale looked at Vicky once upon a time. Dev looks so much like his dad and now I'm like. "Yeah, she probably kicked him down the stairs."

Aww, reunion... <3

I really do like their color scheme and vibes. I've always thought Poof was a good blend of his parents (Good blend of smart, clean, and on top of things while also getting into trouble, holding petty grudges, and making bad or dumb decisions). I'm happy to see him and it's cool to see their hair designs and colors together.

I'm glad "Certifiable Super Sitter" wasn't his swan song from the franchise. It's nice to see a deeper take on his character <3

Patty Possums Party Playground

I'm glad they're making an effort to balance Hazel's Dev interactions with Jasmine and Winn. I keep wondering if they'll get sidelined. This episode seems to be about them, though.

Is the animatronic going to be run-down?

Winn is having the TIME of their life.

Cosmo: We're gonna do this without magic! Hazel: Isn't shrinking Wanda magic?

Immediate prediction: the possum mascot has been summoned to party with them and now she isn't going to let them leave. She'll get aggressive if they try.

Oh no, Cosmo just suggested Wanda use her wand to try getting his out of the claw machine. Is she about to blindly follow and stick it in there like when they were swallowed by a bear and Cosmo suggested dipping it in stomach acid to measure how deep it was and it dissolved? And she just... did it?

YES, sdlkfj. Never change, Wanda.

Nobody tell Gary and Betty there's a Smack-a-Mole game here.

The possum's singing a song about how the party never ends. Yeah, I think I called the plot.

-> Oh, I NAILED THAT!

They're so cute:

Hazel: Friendship isn't only about the moments you're together! It's also about holding each other in your hearts when you're apart! :) Dev, abandoned and confused since their fight: Hey. what.

Wanda dunking on friendship is very funny to me.

A Date to Remember

... Is this with Hazel's parents I assume?

-> Okay, maybe! That title card looks like it is. Also, waning crescent AGAIN? Y'know, the moons were so useful for my OG series episode timeline and I think some will have to be non-canon in New Wish.

I like how Cosmo and Wanda push their backs against each other the same way they used to dance. And I really appreciate how we seem to have a consistent floorplan for Hazel's apartment.

-> Okay, I treat "Cosmonopoly" as the first time they met so if I want to canonize New Wish, I have to un-canonize Cosmo's line about the diner being their first meeting spot, but I can't be mad since I pretty much never see anyone use "Cosmonopoly" for that.

Did Hazel just erase her parents' memories. Oh no, now they've never met! ... Are Cosmo and Wanda allowed to do that? It sounds like they just altered true love.

-> Hazel's parents look the same 11+ years ago as today. I'm a bit surprised by that.

CUPID! ... Oh, wow. His design's changed. I don't think I love it, but I guess it's cool they're doing unique shapes in this show since the OG had the same bodies all the time. I'm glad he's still a grump <3

-> Is he a lot older than Cosmo and Wanda? I'm surprised he aged(?) during normal time when they didn't during 10k years of travel? Is he old or just redesigned? Unclear.

I would make another "IS HE ALLOWED TO DO THAT?" joke here [Cupid trying to set Hazel's mom up with someone else] but... I mean, he's literally the only person who's allowed to do that.

egg baby.

It's hilarious that Hazel convinced her dad to listen to her by saying she's psychic. Of course the parascience scientist would go for that.

-> Note to self, he was interested in it at least 11 years ago.

Cosma confirmed to still be Cosmo's surname!

Cupid's bragging that he won because Brewster (sp?) is going to ask out Angela, but she's totally going to turn him down. Get wrecked, fool.

I am OBSESSED with the fact that Cupid knows all the humans' names. That is a man who does his job. Also I love how he keeps nipping at his bottom lip with his silly buck teeth.

-> I don't remember Cupid knowing people's names in the OG series (I don't think he has much opportunity to say them besides on the dating show in his debut) and now I want to see if that's always been his thing.

-> I'm pretty sure I remember Timmy was given an arrow with his name magically engraved on it at the end of "Love Struck Out," so... interesting.

#Riddle watches FOP #New Wish spoilers #Pending Hazel tag #Pending Dev tag #FAIRIES!#Dragonfly parents #Purple hippie dragonfly #screenshots

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that-ari-blogger · 5 days ago

Text

Sweet Victory (Clouds On The Horizon)

Ok how am I supposed to discuss this episode?

Clouds on the Horizon is fascinating from a thematic and analytical perspective. I.e. I could discuss how it implies tone or how it uses that to discuss the ideological conflict between change and stagnation. I could discuss how this episode both proves and disproves my point about genre being nonsense.

Or, I could talk about a single, twenty second moment and what it means on a scale so much wider than the show itself.

The question is, what do I do?

Both. I’m going to attempt to talk about both.

Let me explain.

SPOILERS AHEAD: (The Owl House)

“I'm gonna spend more time with my kids, get to know them. Things are gonna change after the Day of Unity.”

When I recommend this show to people, I recommend Clouds on the Horizon, and not actually for the scene you are thinking about. I recommend it for the conversation that King has with Alador.

Because Alador has been neglectful. He’s had a reason to be, sure, but that doesn’t change his actions. The man has missed all of his children growing up, not out of malice, but because he was going to do it later.

A dad sitting on a swing set he made years and years ago. He's reminiscing about times gone by, but those times never happened. He is alone with an empty part of his life.

Recently, the Nebula creator 12tone released a video about Henry Chaplan’s Cat’s In the Cradle. I believe it is also on Youtube so here’s a link to that.

The song is about a father never having time for his song and is relevant to Alador for obvious reasons.

It’s detached, and as 12tone explains, cognitively dissonant. The miracle of giving birth is not only described absent mindedly, but underscored by music that doesn’t convey much emotion. However, that “much” is doing some heavy lifting, because the song is nostalgic, and the moment the father realises he’s missed his ch

ance, all that emotion comes crashing through in the form of regret.

There’s also the chorus which reads like a nursery rhyme or a parable to make it clear that this song is something to be learned from.

“Let’s just say there’s not going to be an ‘after’ to the day of unity.”

Do you see the point I am making?

Alador messed up. He was always distant because he completely misunderstood how relationships work. Time is finite, people are like plants. They need sustenance, you need to take care of them. Give them sunlight, leave them alone when they need it, protect them from pests, maybe sing to them once in a while.

There isn’t going to be a later, Alador has just lost a large section of his life and that is time that he can’t get back. He has to start again, and the conversation with Amity at the Brawl was a start, but this man needs to realise what is holding him back.

I feel like Odalia gets a lot of attention for being the worst, and Alador gets praised for getting out of that relationship, and I think that is warranted. But it is incredibly difficult not only to realise that you messed up, but to stop and regroup and try something new.

At the start of 12tone’s video, he discusses the vibe of the song, and he does it in a very specific way.

“That feeling, not of loss exactly, but of having failed to build anything worth losing in the first place.”

Emptiness. That’s Alador’s emotion here. Emptiness. He did everything for his family, but they didn’t need everything, they needed him.

I really like the contrast in this scene. Alador and King discussing fatherhood from different perspectives, and neither of them knowing much about it at all. King just had the piece of information that could kick Alador out of his stupor.

Contrast that with the parental relationship of Eda and Luz demonstrated on the balcony.

There is a thematic parallel between the two scenes, that being the idea of change and future events. This season is about what happens next, and while that is a constant throughout this episode with the overt planning and scheming for what will be a chaotic 24 hours, it is made most obvious by Luz with her Palisman.

“I got to decide what my future looked like when I chose to be a witch, and I want them to have that option too.”

Luz is a paragon hero. I have discussed this before in relation to Monkey D Luffy, but I feel the need to restate it. Luz giving her Palisman a choice isn’t an active decision on her part. It’s not a conflict whether to pursue freedom. She just does it because why would she do anything else.

We see a lot of stories with moral quandaries and it’s a nice contrast to have a character for whom there is a correct answer and who is not going to budge on this matter.

Although, wind back the clock a bit. I said that Eda and Luz have a parental relationship, and there is something important here.

Eda views Luz as a child, Luz views Eda as a peer.

They really like this shot, don't they? They keep coming back to it, as if they are making a point. But what?

The Bildungsroman isn’t quite a genre. It’s a literary structure that blurs the line. It’s essentially a coming-of-age story with extra steps that aren’t important right now.

The point is that up until this episode, this series was nominally a Bildungsroman. It wasn’t, but it made attempts to look like one.

Luz has been growing up and maturing throughout the series. She has been learning that the world is more nuanced. But a key idea in The Owl House is that the stories don’t just stop. Characters keep going.

A key thing when you are a parent is that eventually your kids will grow up. And I can’t speak for any parents who read this, but as someone who was once a child, I find it is nice when I am treated with the dignity befitting someone who isn’t about to do something incredibly stupid.

Let me rephrase. I am about to do something incredibly stupid, but I know what I’m doing.

That specific wording is key here. I know what I am doing. I may not know what will come in the future, but I am cognisant of at least my own actions.

I don’t think either Luz or Eda understand that in the same way I do, and while I only pretend to be omniscient, I do think I am right about this. I think Eda believes Luz is still a child and therefore still needs to be taken care of as such, rather than taken care of as an adult. She’s partially right, but Luz is more mature than Eda is giving her credit for.

Meanwhile, Luz can’t tell the difference between knowing her own actions and knowing everyone else’s. She thinks she has to be the hero, and she doesn’t.

I started this series by discussing Luz and Belos as parallels, and this is what I mean. Bellos believes the world is simple, and will do everything to keep it that way. Luz believes the world is simple, and will do anything to fit within it. They are both wrong, but they both think that they need to do what they are doing. The difference is that a) one of them is trying to do a genocide and the other is trying to stop that, and b) one is capable of seeing the world differently and is only falling back temporarily in her darkest hour.

That’s going to come back next episode, but for the moment, Eda.

“Isn't it cool we get one last adventure together?”

Eda has consigned herself to death once again. This episode has been going out of its way to show these two are not in the best place mentally to imply a question in the next episode, which was going to be, I remind you, the final episode of the series.

This is the third time they use this shot. Did they only set up one camera or sommat? What is this?

I think the title of the episode and the imagery of this scene are important here. If you are walking in a straight line, eventually you’ll stop being able to see clearly because things are too far away, but there is also a point where things disappear.

That’s the horizon. You don’t know what will happen that far in the future, but here is something crucial.

Just because you can’t see yourself over that point, doesn’t mean you won’t get there eventually. It quite literally just means you can’t see, and not knowing about something doesn’t make it cease to exist.

I have memory issues. That doesn’t mean my phone ceases to exist every five minutes, it means I don’t know where I put it and just need to find it.

And with that, I think my discussion of this episode is complete. There’s nothing else that happens here. The episode is complete. You can stop reading now. That’s it. We’re done.

Gordon Bennet, that kiss scene.

This moment became a bit of a meme online because of how noticeable the increase of animation quality is. It’s jarring, and if the whole series was made with this quality, The Owl House would have been cancelled early in season one for financial reasons. This scene is really well animated.

In a piece of static artwork, such as a painting or a photograph, there are ways to draw attention to something. You can reduce the saturation of background details, you can put something blank behind your subject to draw it out, you can make something enormous in the frame. Or, you can make it more detailed.

The episode is going out of its way to draw the audience’s attention to a queer kiss, and I think that is important.

Activism is fun, isn’t it? You get a bunch of people together with homemade signs and you shout slogans at passers-by and the people who actually matter will change their minds overnight. Right?

No, actually. That’s not all there is to the world.

Morality is a tool of convenience for the rich and powerful. In truth, all that matters when you have everything is keeping it. Often, it’s a power built on either ignorance or complacency of the public. After all, the best way to get away with something is just to not tell people you are doing it. That’s what the shouting and sign waving is for, it’s to raise awareness, or to force a reaction. That works sometimes, but there is a problem.

In my experience, if you are confronted, your immediate response is to fight back. It doesn’t matter how right I am, if I’m an asshole, you will disagree with me on principle. Which is why, in my opinion, the best way to achieve social change is through storytelling.

It is important to me that The Owl House is a queer story, but it is just as important for that motive that it is also really good. I think The Owl House is really well written, and so did enough people that Disney brought the series back after cancellation.

The series is popular, and right in the heart of that is a queer couple and a queer kiss. The queer love story is made inseperable from the rest of the show, and that means that, as far as analytics are concerned, the show’s success and its queerness are the same thing. Disney had to bring the show back, and it had to bring back a queer story. The show proved that queer stories are just as marketable as any other, and that any argument for the contrary was based fundamentally in homophobia.

We all knew this, in the same way that we all know how Diana really died, but The Owl House looked capitalism in the face, got knocked down, and got back up. The Owl House won, if only partially, and a twenty second scene with a kiss and an intentionally ridiculous line became the centre of that.

Cycling back to the theme of moving forwards then, The Owl House cleared a way for the next generation to keep moving. It only got a three-episode final season. That was the price it paid for progress and the compression shows. Besides that, Disney is still heavily limiting queer shows.

But if a silly little show about a girl who wanted to be a witch can make such a massive stride forwards, what could the next generation do?

I have stories that I am working on that are fundamentally queer in theme, and if those can make half as much progress as The Owl House did and is doing, I will credit that to Dana Terrace for showing me it could be done.

On a different level, this was a show that looked at its audience and showed queer people just being. It showed bigotry as inherently villainous but also inherently based on stupidity, and it showed that it is possible to not just be queer but be queer and happy.

Some kids needed that, and judging by the state of Tumblr, some adults needed it as well.

Final Thoughts

One more episode of season two to go. King’s Tide. That’s an episode with a reputation.

Stick around if that interests you.

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estiebestieban · 4 months ago

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omg your tags were ABSOLUTELY PERFECT! you understood exactly what i was trying to say in my post and i truly appreciate that.

of course no one HAS to like esteban but whenever i see someone hate on him i just want to ask "why?". because pretty much 99% of the time their reasoning for hating on esteban is based off one of the narratives that has been thoroughly disproved, not just in my post (i don't think that highly of myself lmao) but in many testimonies over the years. i've even seen people say they don't really know anything about him and then just write paragraphs of lies to justify their dislike of someone they OPENLY ADMIT they could be wrong about! and if their whole basis for hating on a driver is based on a bunch of lies, then what's left once the falsehoods are deconstructed you know? (and if you're one of the 1% then go ahead - i can't stop you lmao!)

also i actually had written a line about how esteban's teammates, who have all been VERY TALENTED when it comes to getting the media on their side, have absolutely used this negative perception of esteban to boost themselves (i even had interview quotes from fernando and pierre at the ready and was trying to find some from checo) but i ended up removing it because i didn't want to be accused of using my post to hate on the aforementioned drivers. because of course my extensively researched and cited 1000+ word essay that i spent hours on and collaborated with multiple blogs was all written for a single line in which i "hate" on two drivers...

there are definitely times where i wish that esteban would play the media game and speak his truth (and i think he's actually testing the waters a bit with very reasonable statements). but that's not how he wants to approach things and i have so much respect for that. and considering all the team principals (including his very likely future team principal ayao komatsu) and other paddock members have vouched for him over the years, i think it was the right decision.

anyways sorry for another mini-essay in your ask box but i just wanted to say thanks again for your tags <3

You're so right for your post and you're always invited into my askbox for mini (or full length tbh) essays because you get it!!! (As do all other esteban stans I've seen on here cheers to like all five of us.

As a Dutch fan, the one question I get asked most is "Oh you must be a Max fan, right?" and when my answer is no, people go down the list of possible drivers I could be a fan of, but somehow they never say Esteban. When I say I'm an Alpine fan, the gut punch response is always "Oh, Fernando/Pierre, I get it."

While there is nothing wrong inherently wrong with assuming favourites, it's wild to me that even when I narrow it down to three possible drivers, Esteban still isn't even considered.

Even when I'm surrounded by major fans of the sport, the concept of Esteban having a genuine fan is foreign to people. I understand that most people around me view the sport through the lens of the Viaplay vision (and previously ZiggoSport) which favours Max to the extreme, and who couldn't give less fucks about other drivers. Esteban is hardly mentioned during broadcast, and when he is, it is always in a negative way (that's what happens when you take out the golden boy once I guess)

I've had this discussion time and time again, where I point out that Esteban drives in a similar style like Fernando - but where Fernando is praised for his balls and his attitude, Esteban is shoved aside as reckless and a danger. Where Max is hailed as the second coming of Christ, Esteban is deemed as a liability on track.

Why? Because he isn't considered charismatic enough? Even when he has countless fun and endearing interviews?

The media continues to cut Esteban out of the narrative wherever they can. An example would be people pushing the Pierre/Charles friendship for a dramatic tale of childhood friends turned competitors, but they leave out Esteban time and time again - like we don't have various images showing their closeness during their karting days.

Also, we forget way too often that Esteban and Max were rookies together in f3 in 2014 who both skipped f2 to go straight to f1. Only one of them won f3 that year, and it wasn't Max

#sorry this is just rambling i should be sleeping #but i rise to defend my man on main any given day #esteban ocon

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listen-to-the-inner-walrus · 1 year ago

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can you explain why you dont believe the titanic switch conspiracy theory? didnt they find a propeller with "olympic" written on it amongst the wreckage?

i feel like the phrase "you just activated my trap card" applies here but i have also never watched yu-gi-oh so dont fully know the correct use of that. anyway whats the text limit on a tumblr post because i think i might hit it with this response.

before we begin (if you wanna join me on this fucking journey), ill just drop some useful sources on the topic:

olympic & titanic - an analysis of the robin gardiner conspiracy theory dissertation by mark chirnside in july 2006

titanic or olympic: which ship sank? by steve hall and bruce beveridge

olympic & titanic: the truth behind the conspiracy by steve hall and bruce beveridge

with that shipkeeping housekeeping out of the way, lets jump into it after the cut

so hands up, how many people knew that this theory originated in a book from 1995?

yeah, its a pretty modern theory considering titanic sank in 1912. the theory originated in the riddle of the titanic by robin gardiner and dan van der dat.

and the theory argues that the ships were switched and titanic (actually olympic) was deliberately sank as part of an insurance scam. now they didnt do this at all for shits and giggles. instead, the theory posits that the navy enquiry that followed the 1911 collision between hms hawke and olympic was biased which meant white star line couldnt recover the costs of repair from lloyds (the insurance company), and therefore, they wrote olmpic off as too damaged to be repaired, lied about the amount of damage, switched the ships and sank olympic disguised as titanic to recover some costs.

far-fetched? oh definitely and it gets worse, but ill leave that til later in this gargantuan response because its really fucking funny.

(seriously, i recommend you read til the end or just skip to the part where i start talking about the sinking itself because fam, gardiners theory gets wild )

according to van der dat, who is a dutch journalist and naval history writer with an incredibly dutch name, gardiner had wrote the manuscript after researching the titanic for however many years and sent it to his literary agent. this agent had previously worked with van der dat and so sent it to him to double-check the information by going back to the original sources. he then rewrote the book with line-by-line consultation with gardiner.

and would you like to hear a quote from van der dat regarding the theory? i think you would:

"the publishers were disillusioned when the theory did not stand up"

he also, in correspondence with titanic author and researcher paul lee, called it "bilge" which is a fun ship joke alongside calling the theory bullshit.

anyway, the publishers went ahead with the book anyway because fuck integrity, i guess... thats kinda harsh considering this first book (oh yeah, theres more) was praised for stellar research and for being balanced, and the final chapter of the book literally acknowledges that the wreck has titanics shipyard number (401) on it, hence disproving the theory.

in 1997, it was published in the us under the name the titanic conspiracy - cover-ups and mysteries of the worlds most famous sea disaster, and it sold like sliced bread in 1928 because 1997 was titanic fever, baby!

unsurprisingly, gardiner's following books (titanic: the ship that never sank? in 1998; the history of the white star line in 2001; the great titanic conspiracy in 2010) were a lot less well-received and were not co-authored by van der dat.

"but wait, kai!" you might shout if youre up to date with issues of the times from 1914, "what about raymond asquith's comments? he was junior counsel for the board of trade at the sinking inquiry!"

and i would say, what about it? the letter asquith wrote to the times was a sarcastic letter in response to a prior stance taken by the paper.

yes, he said "the architect, the owner, and the captain to repair their desperate fortunes by sinking the ship and sharing the insurance money" but said letter also included the phrase "manipulating dummy icebergs".

if were taking sarcastic or satirical responses outside of their original contexts as serious quotes, then i guess i need to cancel my dropout subscription since the company holds the opinion that oj simpson is innocent.

and while were here, that single deathbed confession from james fenton is not evidence of anything. his name is not on any crew lists or survivor lists, and not a single payment was ever claimed by a crewman called james fenton. he was not on board the titanic and his claims hold no weight.

now, my go-to explanation as to why i dont believe the switch theory is that their insurance scam would have lost them money and they would know that it would have lost them money.

see, it cost white star (which was a subsidiary of the international mercantile marine) £1.5million/$7.5million to build titanic and they insured it by lloyds (you can check their records on their website) for £1million/$5million.

you dont have to be good at maths to see a problem here.

they didnt just not insure the rest; it was self-insured by imm's insurance fund, but that still means theyd have lost £500,000/$2.5million on the sunken ship.

this whole insurance thing was established by uh the united states senate inquiry report:

"the vessel fully equipped, cost £1,500,000 sterling, or about $7,500,000. at the time of the accident the vessel carried insurance of £1,000,000 sterling or about $5,000,000, the remaining risk being carried by the company's insurance fund."

oh and the £1,000,009 insurance was announced in the daily mirror on 16th april 1912

and the insurance scam seemingly thought up by someones whose first and only introduction to maths was golf isnt the only way white star would have lost money on this.

after the sinking, olympic was temporarily pulled from service to increase safety measures like adding more lifeboats. obviously, a logical move made by a company with a brand new, safer ship on their hands who were desperate for any money they can make.

white star also halted construction of britannic, titanics other sister ship, in order to alter the design and make it safer. this costs quite a bit of money and is, again, an odd choice for a company apparently desperate for money.

and hey, question for you guys: if you were alive in 1913 and needed to cross the atlantic, would you

a) choose the near identical sister ship of that ship that sank last year and was the deadliest sinking of a ship at that time

b) choose any other option such as the lusitania or the mauretania or the ss france or the ss imperator

personally id take my chances with option a, idk about you

yeah so the point im making here is that the sinking of the titanic was what the kids say

a marketing disaster

it was the loss of the newest flagship on its maiden fucking voyage and it had been touted as "practically unsinkable". maybe just maybe people wouldnt feel that comfortable getting on a white star line ship after that.

i dont have any figures for you because reading through a detailed account of white stars history just is not on my to-do list, but that doesnt even matter. what matters is that its clearly a massive risk and who the fuck is taking that risk?

as titanic author, senan molony states:

"one doesnt need to compare designs and count portholes - a moments serious consideration of the reputational risk involved - individually and collectively - is all that is required to end any entertainment of the notion"

anyway, you guys wanna compare designs and count portholes? yeah? okay, here we go!

may i present a non-exhaustive list of differences between the ships:

olympics wheelhouse was curved; titanics was flat

titanic was 4 inches longer

the porthole arrangements on shelter deck c were different

on b deck, olympic had a 1st class promenade; titanic had 2 private verandahs and suites (put a pin in this by the way, it comes back in the best of ways)

titanic had additional cabins on promenade deck a

olympics promenade was open all the way along; on titanic, the forward half of the 1st class promenade on a-deck was enclosed with retractable glass screens

on titanic, the forward bridge wings aft docking bridge on the stern extended over the ships side by a couple of feet; this would not be true for olympic until the 1912/13 refit

the officers deck house was pushed out more on titanic

the iron gates of the elevators were different between the ships and this is evident in the wreck itself

their propellers had different pitches and hence not interchangeable (pitch is a theoretical concept which is like the distance a propeller would move if it turned once through something solid, yeah i dont know either)

the wireless cabin had an outside window on olympic, but not titanic

further, it was placed on the port side of the officers deck house on olympic but amidship on titanic

they had different air vent arrangements around the funnels

white star line cut the ships names into the shell-plating at the bow and stern, four feet high and a ½ inch deep

now, please, close your eyes, take a deep breath and consider how much money it would cost to switch just the list above. now compare all of that to the -£500,000/$2.5million youre losing in the insurance scam.

truly, a spend less on candles situation.

and while we're here, shall we quickly talk about how much hush money white star would be paying to silence everyone about this since its apparently an illegal insurance scam.

not to make another non-exhaustive list but heres just who i can think of that youd have to silence:

the 15,000 workers employed directly by the shipyard

the 20,000+ workers in support services or sub contractors

any permanent or casual staff at the belfast dock and harbour comission

all of the officers and crew who came directly from olympic onto titanic such as the captain or stewardess violet jessop (puppet history fans rise up) who interestingly remarked on how improved titanic was compared to olympic

any staff at white star, imm and harland & wolff (where she was built) who would be in the know such as designers

passengers who had previously sailed on olympic who then sailed on titanic

just like anyone in belfast who walked past while the ships were docked together

olympics wreckers: thomas wards & sons who kept huge loose-leaf ledgers for each ships. the one for olympic was 72 pages long and funnily enough olympics yard number and builders I'd frequently appear in it, as seen below

bob ballard who was the one who found titanic. hes known as a very honest man and didnt even claim salvage rights on titanic because he assumed everyone else would also recognise it was a gravesite. he also said "i think it is the titanic at the bottom of the ocean"

every other explorer or researcher like james fucking cameron or us navy consultant and titanic wreck explorer, parks stephenson

its been estimated likely over 60,000 people were involved in just the building of titanic. this was ⅕ of belfasts population and ⅓ of the working population. heres a photo of them leaving olympic at the end of the day

now maybe im just a fool, but that looks like a lot of people you need to silence, and unless white star were blackmailing them or idk fucking killing them i guess, thats a lot of hush money just in the photo above.

i mean, theres also the claim, from noted liar james fenton, that the surviving crew were forced to sign the official secrets act of 1911, but that act was about espionage that benefits the enemy military so im not sure how this is relevant to the switch, and also, again, the guy was never on the ship.

are you perhaps starting to get the picture as to why i dont believe the conspiracy theory because im still going.

okay so as established, if the ships were switched, there would have clearly been a lot of work that would need to be done to switch the ships.

and i only mentioned some of the structural differences, i didnt get into the aesthetic differences like the floor tiles and carpeting being different colours, or how the lounge furniture in each ship having the ship name on them.

mind you, this is what titanic looked like (in the foreground) when olympic was first docked next to her:

this was taken around october 11. olympic docked next to titanic on october 7th for repairs after that whole catastrophic collision.

now how much time do you think it was before olympic sailed away? mind you, titanic has already been launched at this point and just needs to be fitted-out, and that normally takes around 4 to 6 months?

oh, what was that? 44 days? why, kid, youre going somewhere. it was 44 days exactly!

now, i dont think i need to get into the fact that the dock only had 1 crane (which you needed to install and uninstall funnels and machinery) that physically couldnt reach olympic unless she was moved or how olympic was painted white for her launch and then painted black and that the white paint would get exposed in rough weather so the same would have to be applied to titanic so it would look convincingly like olympic.

i mean, you have that information now, but im hoping just by the words "44 days", you might get how off the wall insane it is to suggest white star was able to switch the ships so well no one noticed for decades in 44 fucking days.

"wait kai, youre forgetting that they were docked together again!" you shout, "after olympic threw a propeller, they were docked together from march 1st to march 7th 1912"

and i dont know dude, im pretty sure white star cant warp space time so i really dont know what eight extra days is gonna do.

i hate to strawman but man, the late robin gardiner would have won a gold medal in scarecrow hide and seek.

lets also take a quick detour into the idea that olympics repairs were so expensive.

without getting into gardiners claims about the damage because theres no evidence of it and as mark chirnside states "there are no credible sources indicating that the damage to olympic was worse than reported at the time - and indeed ample sworn expert testimony to the contrary", lets just quickly go over some financial stuff.

during the case, it was unofficially estimated that the damage didnt exceed $125,000. imm, by including lost passenger receipts, wanted to claim for as high as $750,000, but they lost that case.

during the year 1911, imms surplus profit was $822,062. so weve got:

750,000 > 822,062

now as we might remember from key stage 1 maths, the bigger number eats the smaller number, aka, their surplus profit covered the costs of repair.

aka, no ill-advised insurance scam needed.

"thousands of people in belfast would have seen the switch operation - and yet there is not one word in the papers of reporters or photographers rushing out to find out what was happening."

-dr paul lee

so this is the section where i ask how did no one fucking notice?

no one on titanic, who had previously sailed on olympic, ever said anything about the switch other than one guy who was literally not on the ship at any point.

no one who has ever explored the wreck or done research on it has definitively stated it was olympic. rather, they have definitively stated otherwise.

for example, what remains of the base on the wheelhouse shows it to be straight and not curved, and as you might remember: titanics wheelhouse was heterosexual straight and olympics was curved.

(id be impressed if you did remember)

also, as parks stephenson has stated:

"weve got actual high def images of this wreck. ive seen with my own eyes. weve identified the name titanic on the port bow"

its difficult to make out but its there; the name is on the fucking ship.

also, as you might remember, titanics b-deck was different to olympics. the 2 suites there were nicknamed the "millionaire suites" and jim cameron has used rovs to go inside of them.

funnily enough, robin gardiner has gone on the record saying that these suites didnt exist so make of that what you will.

and further, no one noticed anything about olympic even though she sailed for 24 more years. theres no written record of anything, theres nothing in the board of trade reports, theres no photographic proof and theres not even fucking hearsay.

she served as a damn troopship in ww1, youd figure someone would figure it out as all of her fittings were ripped out.

but no, theres nothing.

as i mentioned above, olympic was scrapped in 1935, but some of her fittings were auctioned off and still exist today. and these have the number 400 on them because that was her shipyard number. titanics was 401 and the wreck reflects this also:

the wooden parts are from olympic; the other has been salvaged from titanics wreck.

theres even the famous myth that olympic or olympus as one person told me is written on the propeller at the bottom of the ocean. its not, but you can see the number 401 written on it:

and while were disproving myths about the name olympic being on the titanic, the story about olympic being engraved on titanics lifeboats is also false:

theres no written testimony, no sketches and no photographs of this.

white star didnt engrave names onto lifeboats, the names were on metal plates that were screwed on

do you really think they did all of this work but just didnt fucking swap the lifeboats? if theyre this stupid, how did it take until 1995 for someone to figure it out?

we can also discuss the stupid olympic room thing while were here. see theres a maritime superstition that changing the name on a ship is bad luck and obviously, if youre swapping the ships, youre changing the names.

so to... get around this? cheat luck? outsmart superstition? i dont fucking know, to take a detour to avoid this, white star named a room "the olympic room."

i cannot find any evidence at all that this room ever existed. its not in the design plans or the blueprints, and no passenger or crew has ever said it existed, so im pretty sure the room just didnt exist.

and even if it did exist, titanic was in the olympic class of ships. thats what olympic, titanic and britannic were. its not weird to have an olympic room on an olympic class ship. i mean it is weird in this case since the room didnt exist, but you get my point.

and heres some quickfire myths and falsehoods

the myth about the 14 vs 16 bow portholes is also a false. yes, titanic had 14 portholes on launch but an extra 2 were added before her maiden voyage so yes, the ship photographed departing southampton with 16 bow portholes is the titanic, and do you really think it would take 83 years to figure this out if it was this easy?

similarly, titanic did have evenly spaced b-deck windows on launch, but then the extra verandahs and suites were added so the window configuration was altered, so that photograph is off the titanic.

the idea that titanic had a 2 degree list to port like the olympic before her is evidence of the switch theory is, to borrow a word from dan van der dat, bilge. plenty of ships at the time and now have minor lists. the one on titanic was only recorded by 2 passengers and we know that the list was related to coal consumption. it means nothing.

jp morgan (owner of imm) did not cancel last minute. as mark baber points out on encyclopedia titanica, it was announced in the new york times that hed be in venice on april 23. at that time, transatlantic voyages took at least 5 days so it would at least be a 10 day round trip and likely not give him time to get to venice for the opening of a store of whatever it was.

also, j bruce ismays wife and kids also didnt cancel last minute. theyd already decided to go on holiday to wales rather than sail on titanic.

addendum to that point: if ismay knew it was going to be sank deliberately and so warned his wife, why would he get on board himself? further, why would harland and wolff designer thomas andrews (who did not survive by the way) get on board?

and we're finally at my favourite part of this entire mess: the sinking itself.

see, a deliberate sinking doesnt really make sense for titanic because the conditions under which she sank has led to the descriptor "freak sinking."

these are: a new moon meaning less light, unusually calm ocean that disallowed lookouts to watch for foam as waves hit any icebergs, ice having drifted further south than normal for that time of year, and a sideways glancing blow that breached more watertight compartments than the ship could handle and stay afloat.

and idk dude, is there not an easier way? like maybe some light arson. just call it an accidental fire that got out of control and led to the ship being a write-off, this isnt difficult.

but you see gardiner has an answer to this, and i am laughing as im typing this, he claims that:

titanic didnt hit an iceberg, it hit an imm rescue ship.

thats right, this guy fully says titanic didnt hit an iceberg. apparently it hit another ship and NO ONE FUCKING NOTICED

i mean we have testimony from survivors but fuck them i guess.

he claims that as titanic was apparently a "steel double-hulled vessel" so an iceberg simply couldnt inflict so much damage.

yeah titanic wasnt double-hulled. she had a double bottom, but it was only after titanic that shipbuilders were like ah maybe full double hulls arent an unnecessary expense after all.

theres also the issue of uh no evidence of this rescue ship ever existing? at all? i dont know where it came from, i dont know where it went, and who fucking knows, maybe it was called the rms cotton eyed joe.

yeah so weve got a theory riddled with problems and im just gonna introduce some more problems with this theory as gardiner has also alleged that:

the original plan was to open the seacocks and slowly flood the ship, but this was interrupted by titanic hitting another ship

1) titanic didnt have seacocks? and 2) was the rest of it a coincidence then? i think its meant to be a coincidence.

i believe his theory is alleging that the crew on titanic would open the seacocks that didnt exist to flood the ship slowly, and that the imm rescue ship that also didnt exist was in the area in advance to help evacuate passengers, alongside other ships such as the ss californian.

this is that ship that was like 10 miles away or something and didnt respond to titanics distress signals. according to gardiner, they were expecting a rendezvous with titanic according to the "original plan", but never received it.

instead, they saw the rockets of the fabled imm rescue ship and helped them instead.

this is fucking stupid.

i cant be charitable here, its a fucking stupid theory. i mean, that imm ship did not exist, and also californian is a ridiculous choice for a rescue ship. her capacity was 47 passengers and 55 crew; there were more than 2200 people on board titanic.

to counteract this argument, gardiner alleges carpathia was also in on the scheme as a rescue ship. she, at least, had capacity for the passengers, but theres also several problems with this too.

for one, it was fucking 50 miles away and famously arrived several hours after the sinking even though the captain had her running at top speed to get there.

for two, carpathia was owned by cunard, white stars rival. was their rival line in on the insurance scam??? how much money did they have to pay cunard for this????? why? just why?

do you understand why i dont believe it? please tell me you understand. i need you to understand. i need you to tell me that you understand that the guy who created this conspiracy claimed titanic didnt hit an iceberg.

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ukfrislandembassy · 1 year ago

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I think linguistics has a huge methodological problem, in that while there exist some formalised methodologies for conducting investigations, it's clear that you don't have to pursue any of them to actually get ahead academically because linguists aren't actually as scientifically rigorous as they would like to think.

This has knock-on effects for more general experimental design, because it is extremely common to find studies which purport to prove/disprove some hypothesis, but when you actually look at the methodology they use you find that it doesn't actually provide evidence for the point they're attempting to make.

Of course the most common place to find this kind of stuff is in the Generativist literature, which is awash with claims the phenomena they describe is only explainable through the assumption of Universal Grammar/a Language Organ/whatever, when in fact non-innatist models work just as well. But this isn't the only part of the field that is susceptible to this.

So for instance there was a paper put out in Science recently that claims to have found evidence to counteract the idea that social structure can have an impact on the structure of the language (most notably explicated by Peter Trudgill in his 2011 book Sociolinguistic Typology, give it a read if you can find it). They take demographic data from Ethnologue and compares this with a couple of metrics which supposedly quantify linguistic complexity.

Leaving aside the (sometimes glaring) issues with the way the metrics are defined (they perhaps could have done with reading Dahl 2004 The Growth and Maintenance of Linguistic Complexity), we can already spot a major problem with using these correlations to make claims regarding the Sociolinguistic Typology hypothesis: the phenomena in question are explicitly diachronic in nature, but the data being used to assess them is solely synchronic.

What do I mean by this? It's been suggested that English morphology is less complex relative to e.g. German because of contact with the large numbers of Old Norse speakers that settled in the Danelaw. The trouble is, of course, that all those Norse speakers later shifted to English, so this large community of L2 learners won't show up in the data, despite the effects still being apparent after over 1000 years. Similar points can be made about most of the languages where these kinds of effects have been proposed: it was precisely the process of these languages spreading rapidly and acquiring a large speakerbase in a disorganised fashion that cause these changes to occur. Indeed, the authors specifically note that education and official language status are factors that would mitigate against the failures of L2 transmission that are claimed to cause these simplification effects, but don't then seem to acknowledge that this is a major issue for extrapolating the correlations anywhere further back than the 19th Century.

I think there are several things going on here which have led to this kind of thing being possible. Firstly, linguistics has always had an uneasy continuing relationship with the rest of the humanities and parts of the sciences (particularly neurobiology and acoustics), because it touches on so many of them at once. Secondly, and relatedly, we've had a fairly significant period where the core theoretical concerns of linguistics were essentially driven by a philosopher (Chomsky), which created a model of research that explicitly rejected empirical work and argued for much of its base assumptions (such as 'Poverty of the Stimulus') almost entirely by thought experiment. Empirically minded subfields continued to exist (Trudgill for instance made his career as a sociolinguist), but empiricism has been slow to make a return to theoretical linguistics. As a result, it seems to me that, at least in typology, people are still getting to grips with the idea of formulating hypotheses and actually working out tests that actually assess those hypotheses. Thirdly, because again of Chomsky, linguistics has had a strongly mathematical character in terms of its conception of language, and this again still lingers in the design of these kinds of studies. Everything has to be quantified in such a way that a simple computer model can work with it, but the trouble is there's frequently little room for the nuances of individual languages (e.g. Irish and Welsh are both counted on WALS as having the same value for inflection on adpositions, but actually a detailed study of the two languages reveals their systems work really quite differently, as I'll perhaps post on another time) which can therefore have knock-on effects for the analysis of any correlations thus derived.

#linguistics #rant

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mbti-notes · 10 months ago

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Anon wrote: (INFJ. 21) I am ashamed and isolated because my sense of fun doesn't coincide with people and society's sense of fun. I don't drink, smoke or go to nightclubs, and I hate those kind of things, but at the same time I feel I am not allowed to have fun and connect with others in any other way but that, and it makes me feel disconnected from humanity.

Your thinking seems quite extreme and one-sided. Society is a big, big place; we're talking thousands, millions, even billions of people. There are many different kinds of people with many different kinds of interests. Social isolation tends to make people very small-minded. By your own admission, you have been isolated a long time, which means you simply haven't seen enough of the social world to make objective and reasonable judgments about it.

I am a very serious and uptight person in real life but I actually enjoy doing childish things. I like going to amusement parks, dodgems, go-karts, arcades, inflatables, camping, some type of toys like stuffed animals and dolls (I don't collect and I am not obsessed with them though), exploring abandoned places, games such as Just Dance, Twister and housey-housey, jumping and doing acrobatics on trampolines, but also some socially acceptable things such as dancing, skating and barbeques, but I repress everything and I never “have fun” in real life.

I have done almost all of those activities with my friends, and we are all well into adulthood. I've even done them with my parents and their middle-aged and elderly friends of all stripes. I see absolutely no reason to hang our heads in shame. You wouldn't even know about many of those activities if they weren't popular enough to make money and continue to exist. Even if it's true that the majority of people around you don't take an interest in them (which is, again, very few people given how small your social world is), it doesn't make those interests any less valid. Are people not allowed to simply like what they like? Are any of those interests morally wrong? It sounds like there is something very off about your moral judgment, which speaks to a need to improve your moral reasoning skills. Poor moral reasoning is one major reason people suffer from excessive guilt or shame.

As a consequence, I am stuck in a limbo where I am miserable and bored but I also find the things that majority of people do boring, so I am not allowed to do anything. I am not someone who wants to be a child forever, I do have a genuine purpose (which, by chance, happened to be something that's the opposite of childish in society's eyes), ambition and career prospects in life, if that's the “grown up” thing you need from me to prove I'm not a complete extraterrestrial freak.

I have zero interest in judging you. Question for reflection: Why do you feel the need to prove anything? Due to projection, self-critical INFJs always imagine that they are being judged by everyone. This can compel them to try to get ahead of criticism or disprove negative judgments. These quests are a waste of time because 1) you can't avoid criticism in life, and 2) you can't change people's minds when they are intent on believing the worst.

What you can control, though, is how you judge yourself. Shame comes from the way you judge yourself. If you have a problem with being too self-critical, the first step is to own the problem and admit that you are the one doing the judging. Criticism can only trigger you when there is something within you that believes you are deserving of it. There is something about your way of evaluating yourself that needs to change.

Obsessing about how the world doesn't live up to your expectations is merely a distraction. Blaming others for how you feel is one common way to get stuck in Ni-Ti loop. Shame is your emotion; you generated it and it is up to you to understand why. Toxic shame is a serious issue and I have written about it before. It involves 1) believing what others say without critical reflection, as well as 2) believing the worst of yourself even though there is no rational reason for doing so. Given the distortions in your beliefs, it sounds like your toxic shame runs deep, perhaps it's a good idea to get professional help for it.

Sometime ago I found myself together with some early teens so the only thing I spoke about with them was careers because I felt that was the only thing I was allowed to do. I don't need to be told it was weird and socially inappropriate to only ever talk about future professions with those children because I fucking know already. When they started playing catch I wanted to join but I didn't, and I thought it was shameful, twisted, sick and deranged of me to want that, I felt like a pedo so I left.

Pedophilia is defined as sexual attraction toward minors. Are you saying it's impossible for an adult to enjoy innocent play with children because of having sexual feelings? If so, then, yes, that would make you a pedophile and you should indeed avoid children. If not, then why wouldn't you allow yourself to have fun with them, especially since fun is what you really need? Children tend to be accepting and love to play with anyone who is willing to chill and have a good time.

The division between "child" and "adult" is not as black-and-white as you believe it is. There is no legal or moral reason that adults cannot enjoy some activities that children enjoy. You seem to have concocted some very extreme beliefs and inflexible rules about what you can/can't do when socializing. Why?

When INFJs get stuck in Ni-Ti loop, they are resisting Fe development, so they unconsciously invent all manner of false beliefs to hold themselves back from getting the socializing they need. This situation with the children is a good example. If you believe adults shouldn't play with children, how are children meant to learn about the world? They require a positive influence from their elders and you could step up and fill that role for them. Yet, you can't, because you have a personal problem with feeling "childish" and it is too uncomfortable to confront, so rejection of yourself leads to rejection of the kids, thus losing a good opportunity to socialize.

When people stop themselves from fulfilling important needs, such as social needs, they suffer terribly. How can you be happy by constantly depriving yourself? If you treated someone else that way, it would be considered abuse. Why are you abusing yourself?

I think it all started when, other than joining the “adult world” and noticing I can't have fun with others because they don't share my sense of fun, a friend of mine told me I was “childish” for liking to explore abandoned places, and it hasn't left my mind ever since. My requited crush (ESFP) also told me I was weird once, and I started to feel even more ashamed because he's socially adept, popular and belongs to the world, and also kinda conformist because he does and is everything that society deems socially acceptable and enjoys it.

The real issue isn't "childishness" at all. The real issue is you were invalidated and it hurt because you lack the emotional and intellectual tools to handle criticism. Human beings are social creatures and need a sense of social belonging, so invalidation and criticism aren't pleasant experiences for anyone. No society is perfect. Every society has great diversity of personalities and you are bound to run into people who are very different from you, which means there's no avoiding invalidating experiences in life. What matters most is how you choose to respond to those experiences.

On one extreme of the spectrum, people stubbornly stand by what they believe even when everyone tells them they are wrong; on the other extreme of the spectrum, people just believe everything they are told without second thought. If you genuinely want to get out of Ni-Ti loop, you have to actively counter extreme and unreasonable thinking patterns whenever they appear in your mind. The healthy middle ground is to listen to what people say, in case they are making a valid point, and then do the critical mental work to evaluate it objectively, in order to extract truth and utility.

What you've done, through Ni-Ti loop, is taken the pain of invalidation/criticism and run off into the land of extreme thinking, eventually getting lost there. You exist on both extremes of the spectrum. On one hand, you just believe whatever negative thing people say about you, which leads you to feel ashamed. On the other hand, something within you can't agree with what was said, which leads you to stubbornly or angrily defend yourself. When you get stuck in such extremes, it is logically untenable, which means it causes psychological instability. What started out as a small hurt of invalidation/criticism has now been blown out of proportion into something so painful that you need to invent false beliefs to rationalize the terrible position you find yourself in.

These kinds of negative thinking patterns indicate a dire need for you to improve your emotional intelligence. The first step is learning to accept and embrace all of your feelings and emotions so that they don't always get blown out of proportion. Your feelings and emotions are important messages that help you maintain good mental health. However, when you don't process them properly, they have the potential to damage your mental health.

For example, it is quite reasonable to feel hurt by invalidation, but it is unreasonable to descend into shame, anger, and rage spirals in reaction to the hurt. You ought to reflect on the hurt, patiently and compassionately, in order to understand its true meaning. Perhaps it is simply informing you that those people are not well-suited to be your friends. You can try to deny the reality of the situation, or you can accept reality and keep moving forward to seek better social opportunities. There is always a better response you could choose.

Being around him makes me feel even more inadequate and self-conscious and I am terrified of him finding out the childish things I like doing because somebody “normal” such as him would think I am a weird mentally ill freak and that would shatter me to pieces because it would be the ultimate disconnect from humanity for me. So I disappeared and cut all contact with him so that he doesn't find out who I really am and starts using it against me.

Have you done something morally wrong? If you have, then it would be right for people to call you out and shame you. If you haven't, then other people's judgments of you are invalid, perhaps to be taken as proof that they are not relationship-ready, unable to be the friend/partner that you need them to be. If that were the case, the best thing to do would be to let the relationship go so that you could find something better. Use your Ni: What are the implications of continuing to tie yourself to his judgments and then blame him for your hurt? You would be stuck in a vicious cycle of fear and loathing with him indefinitely. Is that really how you want to spend your life? Once again, there is a better choice to be made.

I know everybody thinks I am a weird and deragend freak, so I isolate myself and I never express myself because I don't want people to ridicule and reject me for that again. I know I display a childish and simple-minded mindset, so fucking what? Are my insecurities socially unacceptable now as well? Am I not allowed to feel like this because it's the symptom of a “childish person with low ego development”? I only have this mindset because it's the same mindset everybody else has. How am I supposed to navigate the world otherwise?

"Everybody" thinks you're a freak? "Everybody" has this mindset? More examples of extreme thinking. Unless you have literally talked to everybody in the world and can provide concrete proof of their beliefs, then what you have here is a distorted or false belief, based on your own overactive imagination. Yes, rejection doesn't feel good for anybody, so it is reasonable to be afraid of it. But it isn't reasonable to take that fear and turn it into self-righteous rage. Does it make you feel better to rage against the world? Only for a moment, and then you go back to feeling like you're nothing. Unfortunately, it doesn't solve anything and doesn't get you your dignity back.

It's no use to pull a “gotcha” on me because I reprimanded my crush for being conformist while being a conformist myself. I am just bitter and envious that he manages to do it successfully and be part of the world while still feeling free in doing so. The other reason I avoid him and pretend he doesn't exist is to prevent myself from getting triggered by him.

"Pull a gotcha"? Like many socially challenged INFJs, you seem to have a habit of "mindreading", i.e., assuming you know what people are thinking/feeling or presuming to know what they will say. This habit is very destructive to relationships due to causing unnecessary misunderstanding. Socially challenged INFJs also have the habit of making up an image of people in their mind, and that's what they're really interacting with rather than the actual person. Since you're basically just talking to yourself, shall I leave you to it?

If you really already know all about people, then you should be able to resolve your socializing problems yourself and succeed in every relationship... yet you can't. A common way Ni-Ti loop mentally traps you is by making it very easy for you to believe that you know "The Truth" when you're actually just keeping yourself willfully ignorant of evidence to the contrary. The result is, you live in your own imaginary world. To get back to seeing more clearly (dominant Ni) and functioning well in society (auxiliary Fe), it is necessary for you to open your mind and make it more flexible to seeing the full truth. For Ns, feeling the mind get more and more inflexible is a huge red flag that something is wrong with the way they're thinking.

In running this blog, I am often forced to point out problems with people's beliefs only because it's necessary to correct them to reach the next stage of growth - not because I take sadistic pleasure in being pedantic and "pulling a gotcha". To be honest, I deeply dislike the tedious task of wading through the maze of people's distorted beliefs, which is one of the many reasons why I'm not a therapist. If you're going to believe I have ill-intentions and just want to put you down, you really shouldn't ask me for help, because nothing I say is going to get through your paranoia anyway. It would be a waste of time for both of us.

Are you gonna tell me to grow some balls, get over it and become a well-adjusted person? That's one part I predicted, but I also thought I could also get some useful or enlightening advice on how to get over my shame and reconcile my socially unacceptable interests with my bond with others. I just want to feel accepted for who I am and also “belong” and find my tribe, ideally, but I don't know how. It might not seem like it, but I genuinely want to change and have more courage, I was just letting off some steam. If you are wondering why I am a backlogged and underdeveloped individual like you did with the other INFJ not long ago is because I've previously been a hikikomori for 7 years on a Ni-Ti loop. I had this “childish interests” problem even as a teen, but it was nowhere near as severe as now. I used to completely repress my Fe before and I felt no need for relationships because I didn't know how to keep my Fe in check and, as I predicted, now it's out of control and I feel like a weak loser after my crush has made these repressed and unfullfilled needs of mine resurface. I'd rather you not publish my message but only your answer, in case you'll write it. I already know I am deeply gonna regret sending this to you but it's for the best.

"Grow some balls" is not something I would ever say because I believe that it's wrong to use gendered insults. Are you aware of the crude and vulgar way in which you talk to yourself?

Whenever you interact with people, you are taking an emotional risk, so socializing does indeed require some courage. You are risking the possibility of getting rejected. You can accept the risk gracefully and keep moving forward in life, or you can twist yourself up over it and get stuck in fear and pain. You get to choose.

I have made it clear on the contact page that when people send their questions to me anonymously, I will publish them publicly. I can't respond well if I can't make direct reference to the things you've said. But it's important for you to go back and review everything you've written for two other reasons:

1) Self-Reflection: You need to understand that hurt people hurt people. Your lack of self-respect comes out in how little respect you have shown to me. You don't get to rattle, rant, and rave and then, when you feel better, pretend like you didn't say all those things or that the things you said were meaningless, which is what many unhealthy FJs do. It is disrespectful to dump your emotions on someone, presume to know what they will think and say, and then try to control how they respond to you. I'm not your servant to order around. That is not what healthy socializing should look like.

Even if you could find some friends to be your "tribe", it's likely that you wouldn't be able to keep them for very long because of how easily you get triggered into tertiary loop. There is actually nothing morally wrong with your personal interests despite what the people around you say, but there is something wrong with how your unresolved hurt inadvertently causes you to hurt others.

You need to be a good friend in order to keep good friends, which means you have to face up to all the ways in which your extreme thinking leads to toxic behavior, in terms of misunderstanding, misjudging, and mistreating others. When your initial stance in relationships is defensive, distrustful, and antagonistic, you're making yourself unapproachable and unlikable. This only feeds into Ti loop self-sabotage, by repelling people before they reject you.

2) Self-Awareness: The purpose of my blog is to explore ways to improve self-awareness through type development. An important aspect of personal growth is the willingness to confront the truth of oneself. All the things you wrote above are a reflection of you, your beliefs and your values. If you don't like what you wrote or feel ashamed of it, it's a good opportunity to review and reflect on why.

To break out of Ni-Ti loop, you need to face up to: the extreme thinking patterns; the false beliefs distorting your worldview; and most importantly, the deep unresolved pain you feel from isolation and alienation. How can you heal a wound if you're not willing to look at it, tend to it, and apply the required medicine? Yes, it stings, but it is sometimes necessary to endure growing pains in order to grow.

There are things you can do to heal tertiary loop and I've witnessed many INFJs do it. But you have to be willing to take an honest look at yourself and change what needs changing without always falling into the habit of beating yourself bloody. There are several things you need to improve upon in order to break out of tertiary loop:

emotional intelligence: learn to accept, feel, listen, and understand negative emotions such as shame, rather than run from them, defend against them, or give in to them

self-esteem: admit that you are human (rather than always trying to live up to an unreasonable/unrealistic ideal image) so that you can finally hear and fulfill your psychological needs, which would help you feel better about yourself

self-worth: understand that it is okay to need and want love, and most importantly, believe that you are deserving of it, but learn to look for love in the right places

moral reasoning skills: learn to analyze moral issues intelligently so that you can make sound moral judgments on your own, otherwise, you will always be easily led astray by criticism

social skills: learn what it means to interact with real people rather than your image of them; learn to treat people with more respect and acceptance if you hope to receive respect and acceptance; learn to speak up and draw boundaries whenever you encounter people who are hurtful or toxic

communication skills: learn to express yourself authentically, sensitively, calmly, and assertively so that you are not always at the mercy of others in social situations

conflict resolution skills: there is no perfect way to socialize because conflict is inevitable; accept conflict as a fact of life and learn good strategies for minimizing and resolving it

I have already written about these topics before and recommended books on the resources page. Tried-and-true knowledge already exists for your self-improvement. The final question is whether you are actually serious about learning and changing.

With access to the internet, it is easier than ever to find people with similar interests as you. To achieve a goal, a person must be focused and determined. Focus all your attention on refining your search methods, rather than getting distracted by pointless criticism.

I suggest you broaden and systematize your search, instead of wasting time on the wrong people. The more time you've invested in someone, the harder it is on you if the relationship must end. Therefore, it is in your best interest to show your true self at the start of a relationship so that you know the truth and can make a fully informed decision about whether someone is a good fit for you.

Don't walk around believing that everyone should be your bff, otherwise, it is your own unrealistic expectations that will always do you in. It doesn't ultimately matter what is or isn't "mainstream". Everyone has a right to their own interests as long as they're not harming anyone, and a good friend/partner should be able to accept and appreciate legitimate individual differences. Pick your friends and partners carefully.

#infj #ti loop #criticism #shame #ask

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drarryweasley · 11 months ago

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HP Rec Fest - Part 1 (Days 1-16)

Boy, has it been a moment since I've gone through my fanfic bookmarks. Thankful that @hprecfest has given me a reason to do so and rediscover some old gems!

Anyways making this list made me realize that I'm a connoisseur of explicit content so most of these are smutty and I'll leave that up to you to decide whether that's good or bad

(These are almost exclusively post-war fics where everyone is an adult, unless otherwise stated!)

1. A favorite fic under 5k: If We Lie Like This by everythingokay

(Harry x Charlie Weasley, rated E, 4.1k)

Harry/Charlie is one of my absolute favorite ships of all time, and this is one of the sweetest pwps I've ever read of them, so you know this had to be my first rec.

2. A comfort fic: Lumos by birdsofshore

(Drarry, rated E, 41.5k)

This is one of my oldest bookmarks, and still one of the best. I love, love, love eighth year fics, in no small part because of this one. The summary really says it all:

"Harry never expected to spend eighth year listening to Draco Malfoy wanking."

3. A podfic

I've truly never listened to a podfic in my life, I just prefer reading I'm sorry

4. A fic with art: What Have You Been Hiding Under Those Robes, Professor Malfoy? by Booktopus

(Drarry, Rated E, 15k - art is NSFW!)

Finding art in my fics is such a rare, exciting surprise, especially because I rarely go looking for them. Now, a GIF? And a smutty gif at that? Of tattooed professor Draco? What. A. Find.

5. A non-AO3 fic: The Lust of Gryffindors by Fearful Porpentine

(Harmione + so many pairings/groupings, rated M, 381.5k, aged-up during canon)

Yeah, I'm pretty much exclusively an AO3 girlie, so I don't have many options for this one. Still, this is a standout as one of my favorite smutty extravaganzas.

6. An unreliable narrator fic: Touch by bixgirl1

(Drarry, Rated E, 45k)

I had this fic on my TBR for so long before I actually read it, and when I finally did, I was KICKING myself for waiting so long! I love touch-starved characters finally getting what they need (is it self-fulfilling? perhaps), and I never thought a sleep-deprived Harry could be so funny.

(I'm aware this is an unreliable narrator in the loosest sense of the word but I'm sticking with it because it NEEDS to be recced)

7. A canon-compliant fic: With the Edges Worn Down by MayatheBee

(Harry x Ron x Hermione, rated E, 13k)

By "canon-compliant," we mean "takes place so far in the future that canon can't disprove it," right?

If so, then here's my pick. After Ginny's death, Ron and Hermione decide to finally act on feelings that have been ignored for their entire friendship. It is so, so sweet and so, so hot.

8. A canon-divergence fic: Safe Word is Devil's Snare by ShayaLonnie

(Neville x Hermione, rated E, 97k)

Hot Neville Agenda? Hot Neville Agenda.

Neville is fast becoming one of my favorite characters in fic (both in reading and writing). I'm a sucker for him growing into his self-confidence after the war while still being the same loveable plant guy we know. And a forced marriage with hyper-competent Hermione? Get ready for the spice, y'all.

9. A rare pair fic: 93 Diagon Alley by Schmem_14

(Harry x George, rated M, 30k)

I'm quickly realizing that most of the fic I consume (outside of drarry) is rare pairs, but this is one of the best. Harry and George leaning on each other through their grief, and realizing what they need to get through said grief is, in fact, each other? Sign me up. I usually avoid stories that feature Fred's death as a significant plot point, but this is too well done to ignore.

10. A fest fic: Beware: Naked People Ahead by SonnenFlower

(Lots of pairings, rated M, 6.6k)

I’m recommending this fic not only because of the absolute hilarity of the premise, but because it is a part of one of the best fests I’ve ever come across — the Hermione’s Nook Naked Weasley Fest! This fic had me laughing the whole way through (and crying when I wasn’t.)

11. A dark fic: Whore by orphan_account

(Harry x Fred x George + noncon, etc, rated E, 141.6k, takes place during canon)

Listen, I don't read dark fics very often. They tend to crush my soul and spin me out. This is my "I want to hurt" fic — SO MIND THE TAGS.

12. A WIP you're following: New Blood by artemisgirl

(Pairings still evolving, rated M, currently 1.3 million words, takes place during canon)

As a general rule, I don't read many in-progress fics (this is a personal fault because I get too impatient and invested). But when I started this fic, it had over 1 million words and didn't seem to be stopping anytime soon, so I took the plunge. It features a Slytherin, overpowered, badass Hermione, deep fae/wix lore, and a unique twist on all our favorite characters!

13. A fic with over 100k words: Finding Sophrosyne by mlfoyskhione

(Drarry, rated T, 136.5k)

An eighth year fic where everyone in Hogwarts falls into an unwakeable sleep...except Draco and Harry. Absolutely delectable.

14. A favorite series: Harry Potter & Seven Years of Chaos by Severitus812

(Harry x Fred + Severitus, unrated, 1+ million words; takes place during canon)

When I started this fic, the first six parts were published and part of the seventh. I DEVOURED them in a week, and I still haven't gotten around to finishing it because I'm positive it's going to break my heart. Still, an absolute beast of a story that is so, so fun to experience!

15. The most recent fic you bookmarked: The Best Laid Plans by Drarrymadhatter

(Drarry, Draco x George, Harry x Fred, rated E, 6.6k)

Okay, I’ve bookmarked entirely too many fics since the start of this fest, so to avoid repeats, I’m recommending the last fic I bookmarked BEFORE then. Based on my url, it couldn’t be more perfect — Draco, George, Harry, AND Fred? Absolute perfection. Sexy, sexy perfection.

16. A fic that made you laugh: I WANNA SEE SOME ARSE by thefrancakes

(NottPott, rated E, 10.5k)

From the title of this fic through the end of it, I was laughing. And where I wasn’t, I was fanning myself because. Hot. Damn. I’d never shipped Harry and Theo Nott until reading this.

So many excellent fics here...and yet I'm even MORE excited about the next set of prompts! Until then!

#hprecfest2023 #drarry #harry potter #draco malfoy #charlie weasley #george weasley #fred weasley #neville longbottom #hermione granger #ron weasley #theodore nott #ao3 #fanfic

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pyropsychiccollector · 2 months ago

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Ace Attorney: IF (...Part 1)

With all the recent Asks about AAI... I feel inspired enough to dust off some plot bunnies that have been stewing in the back of my head for easily a decade now. Hell, I did begin posting a story for it back in the day... But because the second game wasn't released internationally, and perhaps because my writing left much to be desired, the story didn't make that much of a splash. And I never made it very far because I only had a handful of vague ideas.

... By the way, if you haven't heard the AAI Collection soundtrack, it's a banger. Really. (人◕ω◕)

At any rate, I had some ideas relating to Simon Keyes and the Faraday Clan. I feel like there's some serious potential here because of how close in time the KG-8 and SS-5 incidents were on the timeline (10 years ago and 12 years ago, respectively). I wouldn't feel very good if I just removed all the hardship Simon went through as a child, and I'm a sucker for redemption stories anyway~... Or stories that avert someone from a dark path, like vergilsama922's Hope Universe has done. (人◕ω◕)

I'll get this out of the way: I don't imagine I'll go very far beyond what I post here. Ace Attorney is a fun franchise, but given the usual demographic they seem to aim for, the recurring characters at the very least aren't as fleshed out (looking at you, Blue Hedgehog Attorney). I'll touch on the ideas I have in mind, and I won't dive too much into "howdunit" for certain legal developments. Because as @vergilsama922 would tell you, Ace Attorney might just embellish legal procedures and due process. Just a teeny-weeny bit. Especially the usual judge... Ohh, Vergil loves that old man. (人◕ω◕);;

Instead I'll focus on the plot points and a bit of character relationships. If I skip ahead in time a fair amount, that would be why. I don't expect this to be too extensive because they're just ideas. I don't mind expanding on some points if asked... But I also don't expect this post to get past a handful of notes and feedback. Feel free to prove or disprove me, I just know that generally Ace Attorney content doesn't get much love unless the writer focuses on the ships. ... Which this post will not be doing. Just so you don't get your hopes too high.

And also, Ace Attorney Investigations content is woefully underloved. That's another aspect. Consequence of being a spinoff despite the second game being narratively superior than most main line games. What I wouldn't give to have Ray Shields over the Blue Hedgehog.... I mean, I would've gladly taken Mia, of course. But Ray is still with us, and he's only 36... C'monnn, who doesn't love a more seasoned attorney? (人◕ω◕)***

Let's just get to it.

Simon Keyes (not his birth name; we don't know that one) was the son of Dane Gustavia, a competitor in Jeffrey Master's dessert contest that would crown the world's greatest pastry chef. Dane entered the contest both because of his pride as a dessert chef, and because the prize for the contest besides the title was a recipe book called the Angel's Recipe. Jeffrey is the sole heir to the Masters Group, a pharmaceutical company that produces products like Coldkiller X, which may seem familiar to Ace Attorney buffs. (人◕ω◕) The Angel's Recipe as such is in fact a collection of medicine/pharmaceutical recipes for drugs that haven't been released to the public yet. Jeffrey wished to bequeath the book to someone that he recognized as worthy, and Dane needed the book because he had heightened form of a taste disorder called hypogeusia - basically, he had little to no taste. Detrimental for any chef, let alone a dessert chef.

Naturally, Dane wasn't the only participant in the contest. Besides Delicia Scones, who was actually a pharmacist and entered into the contest by the Master group to keep the Angel's Recipe within the company... There was also Isaac Dover, who also went under an alias of Pierre Hoquet in France. Isaac was actually a famed sculptor that seemed to have money troubles of some kind (he didn't tell his extended family or anyone else about them; just kept an illustrious public image), and the Angel's Recipe could be sold to rival pharmaceutical companies for a great deal of money. Isaac had a son in Horace Knightley (again, not his birth name) that attended the same elementary school as Simon.

In the hopes of winning the contest, Dane and Isaac entered a partnership where Dane would provide the flavor of the desserts and Isaac the design. Dane could keep up his end of the bargain because Simon was a taste tester for him, not that he advertised this to anyone. They would help one another up through the finals, and regardless of who won they would share the spoils. That was the agreement between them, and yet...

Isaac chose to betray Dane, the day of the final round of the contest. December 24, 2000. Dane helped to make the sherbet Isaac would need the day before so it would chill overnight, and Isaac turned around and refused to sculpt Dane's desserts. Isaac called off their deal and planned to take everything for himself, as was the plan from the beginning. He ordered his son to tie up Simon and keep him away from the venue that day, having deduced he contributed to Dane's culinary success.

... In the end, Dane tried getting a picture of the Angel's Recipe to cure his taste disorder. Isaac cornered and attempted to extort him for even that much, going so far as to strike him with a rock salt lamp... And Dane killed him in both self-defense and revenge. This murder spiraled into what would be known as the IS-7 incident, the final case that Gregory Edgeworth worked on with Raymond Shields as his assistant and Manfred Von Karma as the leading prosecutor.

We all know how that sorry tale unfolded. The defendant, Jeffrey Master, was found guilty of being an accomplice to the murder after a whole year of Gregory rattling sabers with Manfred in court - and it all coming to an end when Jeffrey made a forced confession because of a year of torture and interrogation by Manfred and the police... and also because Manfred threatened to find Katherine Hall guilty in his place, if Jeffrey didn't relent. Still, Gregory did manage to prove in court that Manfred forged an autopsy report because the police had never received the body; it was stolen and disappeared before they even arrived on scene. Because of this, Von Karma received his first penalty, which led him to take Gregory's life in DL-6.

But enough about the stuff we all know. (人◕ω◕) I only brought all of that up to establish those tragic beginnings are unchanged. Jeffrey Master was brutalized and falsely convicted, Von Karma got his penalty, Gregory still died, Miles got traumatized... And oh yes, Horace still accidentally trapped him and Simon in his dad's car during a terrible snow storm. Yes, we're circling back around to that. (人◕ω◕) If they were left to freeze much longer, they would've died. But be it luck or fate, the famed assassin Sirhan Dogen saved the boys' lives thanks to his dog Anubis locating them while they were out on a stroll. Sirhan broke open the car, and took the boys to a nearby orphanage since they developed short-term amnesia from those traumatic events. Neither of them could so much as remember his own name. Dane never came looking for his son because he got what he wanted, the cure for his disorder, and just before Jeffrey's trial ended he fled the country to Zheng Fa for further training in dessert making (both flavor and design) for three years. Dane essentially disowned his son and didn't care what happened to him.

Meanwhile, Simon and Horace were left at the Happy Family Home for several years, where Patricia Roland was the main caretaker. That's where they adopted their current names. Over time, they regained some of their memories... But not enough concrete details to go to the police for help in finding their dads. Simon himself remembered that he was supposed to go help prove his dad's desserts were the best in the world, but that Horace stopped him from going. This... soured Simon's opinions of Knightley a great deal; no longer considering the other boy a friend privately. But on the surface he kept up the façade because it was better to have one "friend" than none at the orphanage. Simon just wouldn't open up to anyone else, and his habit of finding a corner to cry about his dad, who he believed to have been killed by Knightley's dad (muddled memories due to that blizzard), made him an easy target of bullying at the orphanage.

All of that established... (人◕ω◕) Let's flash forward to 2006. Byrne Faraday is an average prosecutor with a sense of justice that a lot of his colleagues scoff at. He doesn't automatically believe everyone is guilty, he's more easygoing than his fellow prosecutors. Rather he worries the most about the criminals that "cannot" be brought to court. People "above" the law. For he feels no man should have that much pull and clout. Prosecutors like Manfred Von Karma openly laugh at such philosophies because there is no reason to deal with such "rare exceptions". A prosecutor is a guardian of the court, with no obligation to "outside matters".

... Needless to say, Byrne strongly disagrees. (人◕ω◕) It's a conundrum that eats away at him day and night... But not to an obsessive degree. Not yet. Right now it's fall 2006, and Byrne's wrapped up a frustrating case where he lacked sufficient evidence to prove the defendant's guilt. It was a very near thing; he thought there'd been enough circumstantial evidence piled up in his favor, but the judge ruled not guilty. Byrne needed a walk to clear his head and not stress his daughter Kay out by thoughtlessly snapping at her or being all depressed at his own powerlessness sometimes. Not every defendant is guilty, but when Byrne is nigh well certain of a defendant's guilt it's easier to move a mountain than it is to change his mind. That's just how he was wired. So he left little Kay in his friend Tyrell Badd's hands, and took a stroll by himself.

On top of the depressing verdict, there was the matter that the particular date was the anniversary of his wife's death. She passed a few days after giving birth to Kay, and it was hard being a single father. His income as a prosecutor was acceptable, but he knew that he could probably try harder if only for Kay's sake, and Byrne also knew Tyrell often spoiled Kay while he wasn't around. Still, he could never forget the cold space at his bedside at night and how Kay deserved the warm love and affection that only a mother knows how to give. Kay always carries herself so positively, so bravely, so eager to please him... It makes Byrne privately weep.

Because... he feels unworthy of that adoration. Byrne loves his daughter and wants what's best for her, there is no question about that. He's never once regretted having her in his life. Yet Byrne feels that he's never doing enough to support Kay, to help her with homework, to go to theme parks or other fun events, or to make sure the friends she's making are worth the trust she undoubtedly places in them. Byrne knows that Tyrell occasionally makes an effort to drive by her elementary school between investigations to check up on her, but he's similarly limited as a detective. Not all problems would be solved if Kay's mother was still around... But many of them would be. Byrne would certainly feel less anxious about his daughter's happiness and wellbeing. He can only do so much, and it... galls him. Because he knows that to an extent, Kay is powering through the loneliness she feels at home and always has a smile when he's around. Always. She only ever breaks down if he's too stern about rules or manners not upheld.

And it's not Kay's fault for bending the rules at times. She's only a child, and Byrne always makes it up to Kay if he ever goes too far in punishing her. They struggle as a family of two, but they are managing to make it work. Tyrell chipping in is certainly indispensable.

As Byrne passes by what must be an orphanage, a haunting idea passes through his head. That as a prosecutor, he may one day be targeted by criminals... And should he perish, what will happen to Kay? Byrne doesn't even have the start of a contingency. It felt irresponsible and shameful to ask his longtime friend when Tyrell had already done so much for them... Kay did have relatives on her mother's side, but they lived far away. He didn't like the idea of leaving his little Kay to fend for herself like... like...

Like these children here. The... "Happy Family Home", was it? The children certainly gave the impression that they were having a good day playing in the courtyard here... But Byrne knew that regardless of circumstances, these kids were torn from their original homes and left with next to nothing. The playground equipment appeared cheap, the facility was weather-worn and very old, and just the faces on some of the children... Especially when some of them perceived an outsider peering in at them. Some were guarded, uncertain, others had their eyes alight with hope at a visitor...

And still others seemed to have given up all hope, one especially was brooding in the corner with tears glistening in his puffy red eyes. Byrne couldn't help imagining Kay in such a state if he wasn't around. That was the absolute last thing he ever wanted his daughter to suffer through, losing both of her parents far too soon... More than that, the crying dark-haired boy in the red raincoat. Byrne didn't have the means to help every abandoned child, but he wanted to help this one. Maybe it was because the boy summoned Kay to mind, maybe it was some other reason he couldn't put a name to yet.

Whatever the case, Byrne approached the boy on that cool, crisp autumn day. He couldn't get the boy to respond to him that much, barely got a name of "Simon" out of him. And all the while the other kids kept trying to gain his attention and glare daggers at the "crybaby" for daring to steal the attention of the first visitor they've had in a while, apparently. It was enough hubbub to summon the chief caretaker, who Byrne went off to discuss privately with why he was there. Patricia seemed rather proud of what she had there despite the decrepit state of affairs, but she was rather dismissive of the topic of Simon because the boy never opened up to anyone, not even her. Patricia attempted to get Byrne interested in other kids, or even a charitable donation from the prosecutor's office since they were always so starved for cash.

... Byrne told the woman that he would think about it, and that he would be back to check on Simon. He could tell that Patricia was really just looking to line her own pockets, and he couldn't in good faith approach the Chief Prosecutor if children weren't going to live better here. Moreover, he didn't much like the idea of Simon seeming like a pariah in this quaint "home". He would get the boy to open up. Somehow.

Simon didn't open up. In fact, the more Byrne persisted over the coming weeks and months, the angrier and more bitter he became. From what little Byrne was able to glean the boy was unable to let go of his original family that he had lost; he didn't want a new one. And it's hard to negotiate an adoption when the child isn't willing. December rolled around, then January... and finally, February was in sight. This was around the time that Blaise and the Zheng Fa President's Body Double were approaching Patricia to bring her in as an accomplice to their schemes. Her orphanage was isolated enough to kill the President. Of course... now Byrne's frequent visits were a problem. They needed him to get the hell out of there and not come back, and the only way that was happening was if Simon Keyes agreed to go.

So Patricia called Byrne to her office when he next came to visit, and gave him a one-week ultimatum to get Simon to agree to adoption. That one week would put them just a few days before the President was set to be assassinated, and if all went to plan people shouldn't even know the President had died because the Body Double would effectively replace him. If Byrne didn't play ball, Patricia would lodge harassment complaints with the Chief Prosecutor, who was already aware of his employee's visits and could easily cook up some false charges if Byrne chose to be obstinate.

Though he didn't understand the full implications of what he was up against here, Byrne agreed to the one-week ultimatum. It was insane because he had been chipping away at Simon for months with little to no effect, and now he had a deadline on top of his prosecutorial duties. ... Well, thankfully, he had a stroke of genius in allowing Kay to come out to the orphanage and see if she wouldn't have better luck with Simon. It meant calling her school to allow the girl to miss that week for "family business", but when Byrne promised that Simon could come to live with them if she succeeded in convincing him, Kay couldn't have agreed faster.

A week went by. Simon was initially leery of Kay at first because of who her father was... But between Horace trying to hog her attention and seeing just how young, bubbly, innocent, and vulnerable the girl was... like he had been, back then... Simon felt drawn to the young Kay. He didn't want Horace sinking his claws into this child whether he meant ill will or not; the traitor didn't deserve to steal what little he had left, and this girl and her father kept coming around for him...

So even though Simon was heavily reluctant to capitulate, the chief caretaker informed him that Kay wouldn't be allowed to come around anymore after that week. It was either try something new - allow himself to be adopted - or stay and continue to hopelessly wait for his dad to return.

It wasn't a very easy decision. And even after reaching it, Simon wondered if this was what he wanted.

In little time at all, they packed what few clothes and possessions Simon had, Byrne signed the official documents, and they returned home.

A few days later, Sirhan Dogen assassinated President Huang on the midnight of February 10, 2007. Jack Cameron still witnessed Patricia and Blaise carrying the President's body but misunderstood it as a kidnapping, and got killed by the Body Double. But the incident only got murkier as two more bodies were added to that list - three, if you counted the dog. The legendary blind assassin Sirhan Dogen was slain, but not without taking one of his attackers down with him. … Chief Prosecutor Blaise Debeste.

Prosecutor Von Karma took up the investigation of the incident, and it was ruled to be a case of Sirhan Dogen contracted to kill President Huang, but before he could Blaise Debeste and Jack Cameron heroically ambushed the fiend and his dog. Not the most neat and tidy story, there were a lot of questions left unanswered - like, why there was a $100 million ransom for the President, why did the President go to that orphanage, why Cameron was bludgeoned with a brick and not stabbed to death like Blaise, or the trace amount of blood left at the scene that suggested the President was injured… But in the end, Von Karma gets what he wants. He suppressed all doubts and inquiries that led people to suspect there was something more going on, because as far as Von Karma was aware there wasn't anything shady going on with the President of a foreign country. Huang held no interest for him; the only point of interest was that Blaise had been on-scene before any other law enforcement. As the man that issued Von Karma his first penalty, the "Perfect" prosecutor only thought it appropriate the man met his end in one of his own schemes.

So due to this different outcome of SS-5, no ransom was sent or received, the Body Double simply returned home as the "true" Huang - and to keep Patricia satisfied he would send her suitable monetary compensation for the trouble. So long as she kept her lips sealed, no one would know the real Huang was dead. Though this does mean Patricia would never get recommended for a role as warden of the prison; Von Karma certainly had no use for her. Von Karma would rise to the position of Chief Prosecutor instead, smelling the opportunity for what it was and beating back his rivals for the throne through intimidation or bringing up their most embarrassing failures as prosecutors. Jill Crane would go on not knowing who is hold accountable for her boyfriend Jack's death; no one would clue her in on Blaise's secrets because no one knew about the Zheng Fa President assassination plot. Yet she and Judge Courtney would keep searching for answers, years later. No Blaise means no black market auctions for police evidence - at least none hosted at the Prosecutorial Investigation Committee's headquarters. Blaise Debeste's son would be left orphaned, and ignored by Von Karma. However, this in turn would earn Sebastian attention from Ray Shields, who is still bitter about losing Miles to Von Karma and sees an opportunity to salvage his own broken soul. … Even if taking in a kid is an awful lot for a single defense attorney that's only got 5-6 years of experience under his belt as a lawyer. Still, it'd be a healthier environment for Sebastian, no sabotaging his education, toying with, or abusing him. Ray will make a strapping defense attorney out of Sebastian someday~… Besides! Chicks love the single dad look, yeah?!

… Just let Ray have his dreams.

Regardless of all these things happening during and after SS-5, the Faraday Clan are too absorbed in the growing pains of three people under one roof. Simon continues to tiptoe around the Faraday's, only sometimes voicing what he wants - and more often it'll also be what Kay wants at the time, so Byrne knows the boy is only rarely indulging for himself and only himself. Kay is as receptive as expected…though she had to quickly be corrected that bathtimes are to be done separately. Byrne is painfully aware from reading Simon's file that he's hitting 13 that year… And he's not letting his 5-year-old (soon to be 6) daughter get in the habit of bathing with BOYS…

FAR too soon for that pubescent nightmare fuel.

Thankfully, Simon seems just as eager to…not get into that physical intimacy angle. Hugs are sometimes fine. Head pats, awkwardly ruffling Kay's hair, all that's fine. Mixed baths cross the line, and Simon doesn't want any part in that either.

It's more tight on the expenses with Simon around, but Byrne feels it's well worth the price. Kay doesn't have to come to the courthouse all the time after school, Simon will either be home or will offer to take her somewhere. Sometimes Tyrell will drive them around. One curiousity Byrne picked up immediately was Simon's aversion to sweets… Tyrell was rather put out by this development, and Simon was simply vague or unsure why he disliked them. He did make the exception to try the courthouse swiss rolls that Kay sung such high praises about. The poor kid looked like he was choking down lumps of iron as he forced himself to, though. Like the very act of eating sweets was…Byrne didn't know how to describe it. Like it was sacrilege? Like the boy was seriously forcing his body to eat just to please Kay. Points for maintaining that million-watt smile for Kay's benefit, but Byrne could see the tears pricking at his eyes. Tyrell could, too.

Hence why Tyrell suggested trying to dig into Simon's background more. Frankly, there was something familiar about the boy that Tyrell couldn't put his finger on. But it was way too early for any blood or DNA tests. With Simon so new to the family, Byrne wanted to win him over for a while before seeing about tracking down his old family's whereabouts. Plus, if he made any moves that unsettled Simon, Kay would get upset… They would wait on that stuff. Perhaps if they waited long enough, Simon's memories would return on their own.

Those first couple years were peaceful, but slow. Despite the 7-year gap between them, Kay and Simon were joined at the hip. Simon didn't seem in a rush to make new friends at school, and often kept in touch with that Horace boy at the orphanage. Usually chess correspondence through the mail. Oddly enough, Simon seemed formal and plastic whenever Horace came up… Like it was just another thing he was forcing himself to do. Go through the motions. Byrne talked with Simon about potentially seeing a therapist, since Simon never wanted to talk about what he DID remember of his childhood, the reasons he was crying and alone at the orphanage… But Simon near-violently refused, stating he didn't need a shrink poking around in his head. That he wasn't CRAZY. And Byrne agreed, he just wanted Simon to know if he ever needed help, all Simon had to do was ask or open up to them.

It was…rough seeing Simon so doubtful even after months of living in the same house. Whatever happened had scarred Simon, and Byrne wasn't about to force the boy to reopen those wounds until he was ready. It just hurts to catch the boy walking on eggshells even when they're welcoming him with open arms. Simon obviously conceals his reservations around Kay, and there is genuine fondness for his daughter, but Simon still looks so lost and uncertain.

Eventually, the original KG-8 incident happens. Byrne and Tyrell are drawn away from caring for the kids, and the kids…hash things out a bit. Kay can see Simon and Daddy don't get along, and she wants to know what she can do to help. Simon doesn't like having this conversation with Kay… But it's easier since she's another kid like him. He explains that when he was her age, something bad happened and he lost his father. His "friend" back at the orphanage helped in that… And as a result, they lost their memories and everything they used to have. Living at the orphanage, Simon quietly accepted his pariah status and came to believe no one could care for him. If his own father abandoned him, who could he even trust? Simon doesn't know the kind of guy Kay's father is, but Simon's experience has shown him that adults do whatever they want, often abusing the power they have like how caretaker Roland makes the kids do chores or they don't get supper. Kay's dismayed that this is how Simon feels, and she hugs it out with him and promises that she and Daddy are different from everyone else Simon's known. They're not gonna just leave him. Simon says he's trying really hard to believe that… It's just a work-in-progress. He's mostly convinced with Kay. … It's her dad that he needs to assess what kind of guy he is. And, well, one thing leads to another, and Kay suggests they watch Daddy in his trials. That might help. Simon can't exactly refuse, much to his chagrin.

Sitting in on the KG-8 trial was… depressing for Simon. He was old enough to get a clearer picture than Kay. Her father had evidence, and it was stolen from under his nose. The trial itself was a trainwreck, no witnesses to testify against the smuggling ring after Cece Yew was killed, no compelling evidence…. There was just this sense of overwhelming powerlessness. So even adults could feel this way, huh? Both Byrne and Tyrell looked dead where they were standing as the judge declared Manny Coachen not guilty. Not all adults wielded power…

… But when they did, they abused the hell out of it.

Honestly, this wasn't enough to convince Simon what kind of person Byrne Faraday was. However… He was willing to see what Byrne would do from here.

(I'll hafta do a followup post later.... Aiyiyi, the plot bunnies are multitasking, and my muse is going off. XD)

#phoenix wright: ace attorney #Ace Attorney Investigation #Souta Sarushiro #Simon Keyes #AU #Plot bunnies #Byrne Faraday

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