#abusers do abuse because it works

[kindnessoverperfection]

Please, if you can, take a moment to read and share this because I feel like I'm screaming underwater.

NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) stigma is rampant right now, and seems to be getting progressively worse. Everyone is using it as a buzzword in the worst ways possible, spreading misinformation and hatred against a real disorder.

I could go on a long time about how this happened, why it's factually incorrect (and what the disorder actually IS), why it's harmful, and the changes I'd like to see. But to keep this concise, I'll simply link to a few posts under the cut for further reading.

The point of this post is a plea. Please help stop the spread of stigma. Even in mental health communities, even around others with personality disorders, in neurodivergent "safe" spaces, other communities I thought people would be supportive in (e.g. trans support groups, progressive spaces in general), it keeps coming up. So I'm willing to bet that a lot of people on this site need to see this.

Because it's so hard to exist in this world.

My disorder already makes me feel as if I'm worthless and unlovable, like there's something inherently wrong and damaged about me. And it's so much harder to fight that and heal when my daily life consists of:

Laughing and spending time with my friends, doing my utmost best to connect and stay present and focused on them, trying to let my guards down and be real and believe I'm lovable- when suddenly they throw out the word "narcissist" to describe horrible people or someone they hate, or the conversation turns to how evil "people with narcissistic personality disorder" are. (Seriously, you don't know which of your friends might have NPD and feels like shit when you say those things & now knows that you'd hate them if you knew.)

Trying to look up "mental health positivity for people with npd", "mental health positivity cluster bs", only to find a) none of that, and b) more of the same old vile shit that makes me feel terrible about myself.

Having a hard time (which is constant at this point) and trying to look up resources for myself, only to again, find the same stigma. And no resources.

Not having any clue how to help myself, because even the mental health field is spitting so much vitriol at people with DISORDERS (who they're supposed to be helping!) that there's no solid research or therapy programs for people like me.

Losing close friends when they find out, despite us having had a good relationship before, and them KNOWING me and knowing that I'm not like the trending image of pwNPD. Because now they only see me through the lens of stigma and misinformation.

Hearing the same stigma come up literally wherever I go. Clubs. Meetings. Any online space. At the bus stop. At the mall. At a restaurant. At work. Buzzword of the year that everyone loooves loudly throwing around with their friends or over the phone. Feels awesome for me, makes my day so much better/s

I could go on for a long time, but I'm scared no one will read/rb this if it gets too much longer.

So please. Stop using the word "narcissist" as a synonym for "abusive".

Stop bringing up people you hate who you believe to have NPD because of a stigmatizing article full of misinformation whenever someone with actual NPD opens their mouth. (Imagine if people did that with any other disorder! "Hey, I'm autistic." "Oh... my old roommate screamed at me whenever I made noise around him, and didn't understand my needs, which seems like sensory overload and difficulty with social cues. He was definitely autistic. But as long as you're self-aware and always restraining your innate desire to be an abusive asshole, you're okay I guess, maybe." ...See how offensive and ignorant that is?)

Stop preventing healthcare for people with a disorder just because it's trendy to use us as a scapegoat.

If you got this far, thank you for reading, and please share this if you can. Further reading is under the cut.

NPD Criteria, re-written by someone who actually has NPD

Stigma in the DSM

Common perception of the DSM criteria vs how someone may actually experience them (Keep in mind that this is the way I personally experience these symptoms, and that presentation can vary a lot between individuals)

"Idk, the stigma is right though, because I've known a lot of people with NPD who are jerks, so I'm going to continue to support the blockage of treatment for this condition."

(All of these were written by me, because I didn't want to link to other folks' posts without permission, but if you want to add your own links in reblogs or replies please feel free <3)

[uncanny-tranny]

I recently had to do a project in one of my psych classes, and man, I knew that CBT was used for every little thing, but seeing over and over, "do CBT! CBT is the best for every mental illness!" was so jarring. I'm absolutely biased because of my own experiences, but I just don't think it's as universal a treatment model as it's touted.

If you didn't benefit from CBT, it's not because you're lazy or didn't try hard enough or lacked intelligence or foresight into your own needs. Frankly, it's a therapy model that (I think) shouldn't be the only readily-accessible model and among the only therapy models covered by insurance. Some of us should not be treated in a CBT model and that's okay. It's not a sign of poor character or unreasonable demands, and if you don't think it's a model that works for you, then it's your right to express that!

[summertimesadnessirl]

This assumes that the goal of RAMCOA is to form alters in every programmed individual.

Not even close.

Even in programming with alters, most of the time the goal is not to achieve full alters because they're annoying to deal with.

The goal is usually just to create compartmentalization.

Sometimes amnesia is useful.

Many times the goal is just to get a compliant subject with cptsd who believes that their abusers behavior is normal and right and who will ignore their own pain and disregard their own intuition and act the way you want all the time.

That's why the most common introject is the abuser.

The goal is literally to have the subject obey the abuser at all times.

If the introject resembles the abuser too closely and becomes a full alter it's actually a liability because it helps the subject understand the motivations of the abuser and protect themselves more easily.

This is why "exorcism" was a common threat and story in programming.

This is why people are encouraged to think of their mental illness as another person or a set of traits that aren't part of their personality.

This is why traumatized people are encouraged to view their survival instincts that look for patterns similar to past abuse and avoid them as "baggage" or "bitterness" or a liability or even a sign that they secretly want to find new abusers because they're "comfortable" with abuse.

There are enough people who develop complex systems to do the type of work that requires it. Mild dissociation or mild compartmentalization is more useful, especially on a mass scale, and there are mass amnesia programs like encouraging people to believe that it's common to get "blackout drunk" and not remember things and be willing to lie about getting blackout drunk and then not be able to refute it when other people tell them that their memory is unclear due to drinking.

Even alters with complex systems are typically created with a utilitarian perspective from the point of view of the handler. They don't care much how the inner landscape works. They don't care too much about the names or sources of fictives. There are certain themes that regularly repeat in media over and over and certain triggers that people like to use over and over. If most people have a similar group of triggers that cause them to reliably behave according to the protocol set up by handlers it doesn't matter what it means to the individual victims so long as the leader or handler can easily get what they want from the target and understands what types of triggers to use to get what results. Efforts are made to standardize programming for each new generation of people with each type of "use" like giving them similar media to access, similar traumatic upbringing, etc. Some types of widely used programs, where subjects are selected at a young age and trained from a young age have specific naming conventions, like a lot of women who received programming to make them sexually agreeable in certain types of situations used to be named after cities, colors, and cars. "Stripper" names. I suspect that other names are given other weight like I always wonder about that meme that says "women who were emotionally traumatized by their ex who had a J name."

But as long as it's easy for people in the handler or user group to figure out how to get the reaction they want using the triggers, it doesn't matter about the rest of it. The goal is to have consistent triggers across a certain group of people. The wider the group of people, the more you would need to either teach that specific trigger young or constantly reinforce it in many different ways in many different types of situations.

TW: RAMCOA(???) Again(???)

Hello! It is I, one of the parts of the host that asked about RAMCOA/Programming!

They forgot to ask something else! (hence my reason of being here)

They were also wondering if RAMCOA means general cult abuse? They said something about other systems saying that they’re RAMCOA survivors who survived cults but aren’t programmed systems?

I’m so dearly sorry if this is phrased weird!

-A Piece

before i start: RAMCOA is a bad term to use from a sociocultural standpoint, period, end of sentence. it is being used to represent conspiracy theories rooted in antisemitism, as well as generally just a defense screen for bad-faith actors to interact with the system community in ways that are derogatory. the recent explosion of RAMCOA has brought a bunch of not-so-great/inaccurate information into CDD spaces under the guise of "my system works like this because i was programmed to have a system!"

which is not how that works. i've got a post in the works that debunks it in detail, but the RAMCOA programming that is so widespread and popular is not possible. most children do not react to trauma with dissociation—an even smaller percentage react with severe dissociative compartmentalization, which is what is required for a child to have the potential to form alters.

tl;dr: the scale required for even one intentionally programmed system to exist would need to be a cult scandal on a scale never seen before. it would need to be international, if not global. since so many survivors are public about their experiences, mainstream media would be covering it. it would be front page news. it's not, because it is not happening

to answer your question, though: yes, cult abuse could fall under the RAMCOA label if the person who experienced it wanted it to. it's important to note that nobody should be assigning this label to anyone, at all. but, more specifically, it would probably be under the ritual abuse/organized abuse parts of the acronym. the systems who are survivors of cults/organized abuse who are not claiming to be programmed into their system generally are just uninformed about the label's origins/community meaning.

RAMCOA as a term describes a mix of valid, real, traumatic experiences, combined with straight roleplaying. it is important to understand that using RAMCOA does not immediately mean someone is faking. the term is not a good one to use, but some people are using it (despite the Jewish members of the community's requests to Not Do That) to describe their real experiences.

tl;dr: programmed systems = not real. RAMCOA = bad label. cult abuse = real & could fall under RAMCOA's definition if someone chose to use the term.

sorry, i rambled. let me know if this is too dense, and i'll rephrase with clearer language. thanks for asking, anon—hope this helps clear up any confusion.

[dykedvonte]

I just realized some people are confused about events in the alluded to past in Mouthwashing, particularly about how long the crew has been working together.

The only person who is truly new is Daisuke and it’s why his dynamic with the crew and role in the story is very unique and somewhat distant. Curly didn’t just get Jimmy this job on the Tulpar, he got him the job with the Pony Express. He’s been his copilot for probably a couple of years but still not as long as they’ve been friends. None of them are new with the freight industry, Anya and Swansea especially have been doing this for years, together.

Jimmy is the newest on the regular crew, maybe just a few assignments, but it’s not his first time working with them. I think it’s just something important because this isn’t just one bad mistake that snowballed with giving Jimmy the job. None of them thought Jimmy would do anything, no matter how off-put by him they could’ve been, since he hadn’t done a thing since being there. Generally unpleasantness isn’t a crime and he’d be aware of that.

It was a festering thing and a sort of forced trust they had to give him that he knowingly took advantage of. He was the black sheep and still a wolf under the wool. He expected when he lashed out, that he had been there long enough for it to be looked over completely. Got too comfortable in the space he inserted into and did a lot of damage with his claws when he felt he was going to get shaken out.

[thekorcariwilds]

[realbeefman]

stacy is sooo interesting because she's in love with house but knows that they will never ever be able to have a healthy, stable, sane relationship because they're too similar so. she finds house-lite instead and marries him and. essentially moves on with her life! and is successful in this because she's a moderately well-adjusted person!

wilson, in contrast, never manages to escape the inevitable, in spite of his best efforts to find a house-lite of his very own, because he's an absolute fucking freak and ends up glued to house to the bitter. bitter end

[lunar-years]

So I know people have talked about how Roy's anger and ways of dealing with that anger might trigger some stuff with Jamie given his history with abuse which is so very true, BUT I also think there's something worth exploring in the idea that the way Jamie deals with his father and processes his abuse might trigger Roy. We don't know exactly what happened with Roy's sister and her husband and Phoebe, but we certainly know how angry Roy is about it in canon. And I also think it's not an unfair assumption to think Roy carries around quite a lot of guilt over that too, guilt that he didn't see it sooner and guilt because he thinks he maybe wasn't there for his sister enough, or in the right ways, when it mattered. Guilt that he didn't help her get out of the situation sooner, even though much of that is wrapped up in the way abuse victims often conceal what they're going through from the people who care about them. Undoubtedly there were probably things his sister was keeping from him about the situation when it was happening, but knowing Roy I can also see him reflecting back and placing the blame entirely on himself for not being involved enough in her life to have seen it coming.

So I think like, the idea that Jamie would not only invite his father back into his life but also not tell anyone (not tell Roy) anything about it might genuinely be so triggering for Roy in that sense. It's not only that he's concerned about Jamie's wellbeing (though obviously that always takes priority) it's also that he feels like he's missed something again, something critical, and that a situation he's always feared happening with Phoebe & his sister and her ex is now playing out with this other person he loves. At Wembley he could handle it because it was James intruding where he didn't belong, and Roy had something to do immediately, a place to step in and a role to play. it would be sooooo much harder for him, I think, to comprehend Jamie being the one to reach out to James and blocking Roy out from helping him. Because then it's not only Jamie's wellbeing that scares him but also the fact that he feels completely helpless to do a anything about it, like there's no purpose for him and no way to make the situation any better or easier. ahhhhh.

[fromtheseventhhell]

It's crazy that people still uphold show!Sansa as a well-written character and pretend that liking her is the pinnacle of feminism when it would be infinitely more impactful to acknowledge her terrible and misogynistic writing. This is the same character who, while written by two men, was thankful for the abuse she suffered because it allowed her to grow. The same character who we had to be told was smart because the writers were too lazy to develop or show her intelligence. The same character who had to rely heavily on the men surrounding her and ended up accomplishing nothing on her own merit ( and no, thinking that she deserved to be Queen doesn't mean that she earned it). She is not well-written, she is not complex, and she is not a feminist character. Which is fine! If you enjoy her then good on you, but please stop pretending that she's something she isn't just because you feel the need to justify liking her character

[befuddled-calico-whump]

Hunter (Corporate AU)

- one of Rex's personal bodyguards

- chronically lonely

- slightly more socially adjusted but still treated like shit

(more lore under the cut, cw for themes of drug use/addiction)

- Hunter's childhood years/teens are mostly unchanged here, but instead of bouncing directly to organized crime after gang #3, he ends up alone for some time

- no friends, plenty of enemies, and in a really bad mental place, Hunter started taking one-off jobs as a drug mule to stay afloat. One job resulted in him getting paid with the product he was running, and at that point he was close enough to rock bottom that he said what the hell

- this started a destructive eleven-month cycle of him saying "never again", fighting with himself about it, and then having a shit day and cracking. The periods of self-argument got shorter and shorter with each time he caved

- he met Rex outside a bar purely coincidentally. They wound up having a one-night-stand (Hunter just wanted to sleep somewhere warm)

- later, Rex found him passed out in an alley and called an ambulance for him. In the hospital, he offered to pay the bill if Hunter came to work for him

- he made him get clean before officially taking the job (one of the only decent things he's done). Since then, Hunter's taken up nicotine and drinking as a legal substitution

- Rex isn't the most moral CEO. His bodyguards are there to protect him, yes, but they also act as enforcers and collectors

- he saved Hunter mostly for selfish reasons. He got rebuffed during their first encounter and liked the idea of taking back that control. Plus, having a guard dog who owed him everything sounded very appealing

- anyways my skrunkly boy looks cute all dressed up

[sandinmybed]

can i be fr for a minute?? sending abuse to people online for holding different views than you is not activism and in fact actively hurts your cause. most people are not extreme in their viewpoints, you can give them a new perspective if you're willing to spend some time explaining shit. if someone is saying something you disagree with and you rush in there to condescend to them and call them disgusting and subhuman and dont even TRY to explain calmly why their views are harmful, they're going to shut you out instantly and double down on their views.

most people are simply genuinely ignorant to the issues they're talking about - they just pick their views up from the news and the world around them and express opinions because that's what every person does. if you run in there and tell them they're scum for it, what then? if someone does that to you, are you going to think "maybe i should do some research" or are you going to think "this person is an asshole, im blocking them." a lot of you think you're activists and then refuse to do any kind of actual WORK to support your cause.

[ceasarslegion]

No i dont think its a good thing to make hating children your entire personality but can i please just say that i dont like them and dont want to deal with screaming temper tantrums and meltdowns from other peoples kids (especially, ESPECIALLY when the parents are absolutely useless in dealing with them) without 30,000 people crawling out of the woodwork to assume that i think all kids should die

[uncanny-tranny]

One of my perhaps unpopular opinions is being a full-time at-home caregiver (to a parent, a child, whomever) should absolutely be considered work and should absolutely be paid like having a conventional job.

Giving caregivers the financial stability and freedom to live as independently as possible is important, especially in terms of being somebody's caregiver. Both the carer and caree deserve to be stable, independent, and have their needs met.

[lollyposp]

okay so agatha all along episode 5 spoilers and all that but are we ignoring the fact that evanora set up that entire scenario to FORCE someone into attacking Agatha to "prove" that she was evil?????? and also the like. severely heavily implied abusive relationship between agatha and her mother??? because im not

[c-kiddo]

just saw someone misread kamen and fionas relationship so bad someone hold me back

[bonefall]

So, your Clear Sky post is absolutely horrifying, but it was very needed, so thank you. What are your general thoughts on tackling his abuse for the AU? Like you've said, pretending he's a good guy is not the way to go, but are you planning on toning down *some* of the situations, just to give some of the cats a break? Clear Sky is a very realistic depiction of abusers, but that seems to come across even without victim number 25, yknow? I'm very curious about how you'd like to go about this.

My most recent big change was bringing Slash back into the fold, because I realized that it was actually a disservice to not address where DOTC's themes dip into Colonialism. It's a hard topic, and I'm still trying to work out the details, but I realized it was important.

With how BB!DOTC is such a MASSIVE overhaul, to properly address abuse and the ways it impacts you, ableism and its violence, and xenophobia broadly, a huge reworking of Slash belonged here too. He's one of the greatest examples of how badly WC demonizes non-Clanborn cats. I shouldn't dance around it.

That's what I need to do with Skystar.

MANY of his victims have happier endings than canon, though. Bumble is one of the most famous, bumped up into a major character and directly responsible for the formation of ThunderClan. Bright Storm is taking most of Gray Wing's roles. Birch and Alder are getting examined, with either a father who wants his kids back or Milkweed as the mate of Misty.

A lot of people will die because of him, even more will be hurt, but I see BB!DOTC as a story about victims and survivors.

Others might grab POVs here and there, but as a response to canon which I feel is Clear Sky's story told in many parts, I center this rewrite around Thunder Storm. The path of kindness he marches down, with love and with anger, and the people he helps.

So BB!Star Flower...

Previously I was playing her as ENTIRELY just manipulating Clear Sky. She was loyal to One Eye and trying to get at Skystar to bleed him dry for 8 lives to sacrifice; but connected to Thunderstar over recognizing him as a victim who deserves her idea of justice. So, she offers Thunderstar the final kill, so her father will be grateful to him and he'll get power AND the death of his abuser.

(When Thunderstar looks upon Skystar, pathetic and neutralized down to one life, he thinks about the collateral damage that will descend upon the forest if he accepts the deal. He decides that he has found the line between Justice and Justification. Of course he wants the power to make his enemies cower, protect his people, and eliminate Clear Sky so he never threatens them again; that's not the problem.

He can still do these things. He wouldn't NEED the power of a war god to do so.

But if One Eye returns, he will be endlessly hungry, ruthlessly dedicated to revenge, and set out to devour the whole forest. Everything would get worse, and even more people he loves would die. It's where his desire to destroy a monster would lead to him BECOMING one.)

Even on its face, it was previously missing an element. There's a step between "Starf decides to bring One Eye back" and "Starf offers Thunderstar the final kill" that was bare. This is the piece that was missing-- That she, herself, is trying to reach out to the only person who's ever really understood her.

But more importantly... I do feel this topic belongs here, in BB!DOTC. Abuse is a MAJOR theme. SKYSTAR is a monster already. He's harmed two wives in BB (Bright Storm and Falling Cry) and played toxic games with all three kits (Thunder Storm, Pale Sky, Tiger Sky).

And I'd avoid Star Flower being abused... why? Because it's uncomfortable to confront the pattern that Clear Sky displays? That in-canon, he tries to cut all his victims into the same ideal shape, from Storm to Thunder to Star Flower? ...it should be uncomfortable. Everything that I described in Clear Sky Is A Monster is rooted in the same desire for control, power, and punishment most abusive people share, he just happens to be a severe example.

Yes. That includes how he treats his child and romantic partners. The parallels that are drawn between Starf and Thunder are there because he wants power in the form of obedience. Starf replaces the son as a narrative award for his "growth" of not killing random people anymore for a while.

A cookie cutter is an effective tool because IT ONLY MAKES ONE SHAPE.

You know what's more uncomfortable? Reading canon!DOTC and seeing someone who hurt you reflected almost perfectly in the character the writers think did nothing wrong. Because of "good intentions" that were not there.

I will say though, just to be clear; I don't see a purpose in being more than PG-13 about serious topics for this project. I promise none of my intentions have changed. Nothing will be more graphic or gorey than canon WC-- just more intentional.

I'm keeping the sacrifice because it's dope. No one is taking this from me. Girl Moment: Killed her awful husband 8 times to count as 8 sacrifices and offered the last life to her buddy as a show of good will. How else do you make friends outside of high school

But I know now that Star Flower NEEDS to keep the canon fact she has very little agency, UNTIL that moment she snaps.

She's sacrificing one abuser to try and bring back a bigger, badder one, because in spite of everything, her father One Eye always made her feel safe. Even though he promised her off to Skystar, and expected her to be willing to die for him. She's followed every command, every order, past the death of his mortal vessel.

The first, and only, selfish choice she's ever made was in reaching out to Thunderstar to offer him the power of her father.

Thunderstar's Justice is a story about a Thunder Storm at the pinnacle of his arc, how the survivors of his Clan are settling into the new normal after the carnage of The First Battle, how Skystar's arrogance brings a violent god to the Forest... and the connection Thunderstar makes with the daughter of a monster.

[userautumn]

"not all men" but not in a men's rights way, in a "it's important to remember that men aren't the only perpetrators of cruelty, abuse, and evil and that subconsciously or consciously training yourself to view men as inherently evil and everyone else as inherently safe inadvertently puts you in a position where you're both vulnerable to attack or harm from people you otherwise wouldn't suspect, AND causes you to limit the number of allies you might have in a time of need" kind of way.