#To the mandalore civil wars

[queen-breha-organa]

Temuera is in Hawai‘i filming Chief of War with Jason Momoa, and he’s out there bringing to life a complex part of Hawaiian history and politics, and this project will deal with all the nuance of culture and conquest and how civil war and cultural conflict change and shape our lives and how Polynesian culture endures and endures and I’m so happy for him but also he left us here alone with only David Filoni to write Mandalorian culture and I need him to come home right now because I’m so scared-

[bucket-tooka]

I was feeling petty about Ha'at Mando'ade (True Mandalorians) erasure, so I made a Google Slides presentation that's a basic education about the Mandalorian Civil War and what's happened since!

Free for use in educating your friends!

[redbean-nom]

definitely not the best idea narratively but. imagine how funny it would be if in the upcoming mandalorian movie, bo katan & the armorer retake Mandalore and then promptly decide to take back the rest of their systems. congratulations, the empire has been driven out, time to get back to firebombing the neighbors. din gets dragged back out of his peaceful farmhouse because he is the one mandalorian capable of resolving things peacefully

[awholelottayeehaw]

Mandalore Reunited? (spoilers)

After marinating in the ending of this season the last three days I think another issue I have is over how people are just... okay with the darksaber being destroyed that easily. I've seen people argue about the symbolism of it no longer being needed to reunite Mandalorians and lead, but I honestly think it'll do the opposite and I'll be surprised if I'm wrong with any upcoming season/show that reflects on the planet's future.

Bo-Katan led to the planet's current state after disagreeing with her pacifist sister on how they should rule the planet. For Satine, it was with peace. For Bo, it was through their warrior heritage. The problem with Bo now being Mand'alore after so long of trying is that... we still haven't seen her character growth. She hasn't atoned for what she's done nor has she been honest and open about her actions with the people who's about to rule. The show could/should have had Bo mention Satine and, in a single sentence, both honor her dead sister's wishes and show her growth by verbally confirming that she was going to lead by combining their ideas of democracy to form a perfect balance of both. Bo-Katan just last season was still racist with terroristic tendencies and that doesn't just... go away. There was a reason why her fleet abandoned her the moment she couldn't get back the darksaber for the Nth time.

So my problem overall with it is that we don't KNOW if Bo has reunited Mandalore yet. Lighting the forge, Axe battle crying his nationalistic pride, and the Mandalorian version of clapping doesn't equate to peace amongst Mandalorians. If anything, it reminded me of how we all united to help one another during and shortly after the horrors of 9/11. For a moment, we all were just people helping each other. Then came the surge of xenophobia and Islamophobia that presented itself in a way that we hadn't seen before and it only got worse since. Yes we had xenophobia, religious prejudice, and racism before; but everything after 9/11 just felt... different. More intense.

Will that happen with Mandalore? It may not. But I have a hard time believing, after so many years of division and prejudice, that the Mandalorians from Din's covert, Bo's fleet, and the Survivors would magically get along no problem. There's already Mandalorians, like the survivors, who were there before the Purge and their nostalgia may make accepting any different political outcome difficult. You have Bo's fleet who believe you have to be pureblood to rule or be considered a Mandalorian, and then you have Din's covert whose strict ideas of The Way are reminiscent of a spiritual community that anyone can be baptized into and not born into. If that were the case we wouldn't have wars or conflict, or even have future conflicts in Star Wars.

Are Mandos going to be okay with others not wearing their helmets all the time? Are Mandos going to be okay with sharing space with people who never take off their helmets? What is the weight of Ragnor's baptism for those not in the covert? And if there's no darksaber anymore to determine who the ruler is, then what are the plans moving forward for leadership? There's technically never been an established order of leadership, the planet had always been led by Warlords and Satine was (I believe) the first to inherit her father's titles after his death and that was extremely controversial. Paz and Axe couldn't even peacefully argue over a game of SW chess, it's naive to assume a moment of unification to take back a planet will erase that decades long prejudice. Not even Din has been able to get over his droid thing that he's had since he was a kid.

Honestly, putting it to words, I won't be surprised if this caused another civil war. The prior one was fought between the New Mandalorian peace movement and traditional nationalists (Satine vs Bo) and with three very different sects of Mandalorians uniting on the planet for the first time in years, I can't fathom the peace lasting long. I can't imagine people not arguing about what The Way is, or overcoming decades long prejudice and resentment after the purge all because they got a planet back.

It's sweet and idealistic to imagine this would be the case, Mandalore as a planet deserves it. Future Mandalorians deserve to not live under warlord leadership. But that would require Bo to not only overcome her own prejudices and the lack of patience she has for diplomacy (ex: the robot bar and the Ugnaughts), and it'll take time for us to see if she learned anything from Din and his people during her time with his covert. And although Bo not needing the darksaber to rule or unite the planet and its people is a sweet idea rich in symbolism, it's naive to accept it as a final truth when Mandalore and Bo-Katan's complex histories loom over the future of the planet regardless of turned leaves and open minds.

Again, I might be completely wrong. Maybe they took the easy way out and decided, for once, Star Wars can just leave out the Wars part regarding Mandalore? Maybe Bo did learn her lessons and with The Armorer she's able to find a middle ground for everyone? Maybe everyone is able to put things aside for the planet and won't need Din and Grogu to come and play diplomat between everyone again? I guess we'll see, and despite all of this, I am excited and curious to see the future of Mandalore moving forward in this show and others (and movies!) that take place in the future.

[florafaunaandeldritchhorrors]

one weird thing about the Children of the Watch is that the narrative seems to think they’re more extreme than Death Watch (I think because they’re way more religious????) but in actuality they’re the faction most chill about the Mandalorian imperative to seek conflict outside of the New Mandalorians. like, being warriors is a huge part of their culture, but they don’t seem inclined to start a war to prove it, which makes them less extreme than Death Watch in my book. 

10/10, would build a time machine to send the Armorer back to challenge Shae and Heta Kol

[desmothene]

was reading a fic just now that had a line about how "Mandalorians would never allow personal feelings to stand in the way of the greater good for their clans and Mandalore" and I tell you I laughed out loud

I too love playing with the mandos as fun toys and I'm all for a re-imagining of canon but it is really funny to me when someone decides to take the canon "I will Enact Violence for my Personal Feelings and Honor To the Detriment and Ruin of my World" group and tells me that actually they are the exact opposite. Directly comparable to the Jedi, in fact, for how well they are able to discard personal feelings for the greater good.

sometimes it's really interesting to see how hard fanon has taken hold. fyi I do like this author and follow their fics and I'd never say this to them tbh bc they can do what they want!! (they're also not anti-jedi about it, which puts them one up on many).

but I just find the complete dichotomy between the canon representation and the fanon lionization pretty funny.

[ofpolitics]

i swear, every time i go into satine's tag, looking for neat things to reblog, i'm disappointed and lose faith in fanon a little bit more.

[synthwwavve]

I'm curious to know what the Children of the Watch are called in Mando'a.....

Lots of people (understandably) assume they must be related to or synonymous with Death Watch because of the word "watch", but Kyr'tsad, the Mando'a name for DW, actually translates to something more like "death society"— kyr: end, tsad: alliance, group, etc.

It would make sense if COTW have a Mando'a title that includes the tsad root, as that's probably a pretty generic descriptor for any sect/group/faction, and not an indicator that they're related to any other group with a name sharing that common root.

Who knows why or how it came to be translated as "watch" in Basic.... that's a speculation topic for another post

[stairset]

Maybe it's just because of where I live, but the whole "Satine didn't like that her people were a bunch of warmongering imperialist assholes and told them to knock it off and implemented gun control and made the Jedi Torture Boxes illegal so that her people could rebuild and move on from their violent history of civil wars that reduced their planet into a nearly uninhabitable wasteland in favor of focusing on more productive things like art and education and this is literally cultural genocide and she's erasing history and she should've been a villain blah blah blah" take has always been so weird to me. Like I have absolutely seen people say things like that in real life all the time and about 90% of them have confederate flags on the back of their pickup trucks so. Yeah.

[banthaboyboba]

If we’re doing insane Bo Katan theories now i’m going to throw in mine

Bo is a clone of Satine

[now-you-sound-like-a-jedi]

If Obi-Wan had actually stayed on Mandalore with Satine after the Civil War and left the Jedi Order, it would've made The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones peak comedy.

Like, Qui-Gon would still be sent to Naboo and end up on Tatooine, he'd still meet Anakin and take him back to the Temple. But, in this AU, he survives the battle on Theed and takes Anakin as his padawan. And the entire Order would be making jokes:

"Congrats on the new padawan! Hope he sticks around longer than the last one!" "We'll keep this one off the bodyguard missions, eh Qui-Gon?"

So one day little Anakin’s like "hey master, what happened to your last padawan?" And Qui-Gon's like "oh he ran off with a girl, yeah he's royalty in the Outer Rim now".

And it's all fine and dandy until Anakin’s nineteen and they get assigned to protect Padmé, and Qui-Gon takes one look at this kid's face and thinks "You've got to be fucking kidding me, this shit again??"

[istaricelebelasse]

An AU where Maul kills Sidious on Mandalore, causing new problems for everyone including, but not limited to:

The Chancellor of the Republic being murdered on a neutral planet

Dooku and Maul arguing over who is the True Sith

Mandalore being Mandalore aka trapped in a civil war, fending off the republic, and also hosting a Sith Lord on a Victory Rush

Sidious’ plans unravelling in new and fun ways as things are unwittingly (or deliberately) set off

Maul, on his Victory Rush, continuing to plot his revenge on Obi-Wan

[bolithesenate]

Satine Kryze should not be a sympathetic character.

A complex and tragic one? Sure. Every day of the week.

But she did not 'have a point', neither in-universe, not outside of the sw framework. She isn't a hero, neither of her own story, nor of someone else's. There is no way she wasn't a tool. You should not look at her and think 'this woman has done nothing wrong and what ultimately happened to Mandalore was to no part her fault'.

Because guys. Friends. Strangers on the interwebs.

Pacifism doesn't work.

And it certainly wouldn't have worked in motherfucking Star Wars – the 'wars' is literally in the title – for a system or series of systems who wanted to stay neutral.

YOU DON'T STAY NEUTRAL FOR LONG BY JUST SAYING 'YEAH, NO THANKS <3' TO A LARGE-SCALE CONFLICT.

source: I am Swiss, we've looked at this in history class. Extensively.

Satine was a dreamer (thanks Obi-Wan) who was allowed to keep her delusions because they actively benefitted Palpatine's plans. And that's something you can quote me on. There is literally no other reason (apart from supremely bad writing but we'll leave that aside here) for her and her little friends' 'Alliance of Neutral Systems' or whatever to be allowed to exist.

Not that they were neutral in any way, shape or form, by the way.

So yeah sorry to the Satine stans, but you're idolizing a character that was written exclusively and specifically for Obi-Wan's manpain and who, in-universe, was a supremely bad politician. Because the level of mental dissonace needed to factually be a Republic System, have a seat in the fucking Republic Senate, rely upon their military for aid while actively proclaiming that All Violence Is Bad And Barbaric one sentence later AND THEN CLAIM TO BE NEUTRAL IN THE WHOLE CONFLICT – it's just mind-blowing. Even moreso that people actually look at this character and see something aspirational in her.

Again, I'll gladly dissect her character any day of the week. She is fascinating because of all the implications her existence as a head of state carries with it, as well as her deeply complicated family history and her relation to mandalorian culture.

But it just grates on me personally that that all gets ignored in favor of her being some sort of icon of white american saviorism (bc that's literally what she is) and her objectively bad political takes being treated like they are the only correct stance to be taken during the Clone Wars/Mandalorian Civil Wars.

If you think pacifism works and actually lets you stay neutral, I desperately urge you to open a history book. Because those two are mutually exclusive. Especially in the scenario that Star Wars paints.

[ivvmell]

im into aus theres obi1, satine and cody all in timeline of mandalore civil war but they have silly teen shenanigans

[yamineftis-art]

This is the way...

The amorer is such a fascinating character to me! With the little bits we’ve gotten through the series she’s been shaped into an interesting part of Mandalore and a fun counterpart to Bo Katan. I wanted to draw how I imagine her journey in little important bits. I like to think she was amongst the Mandalorians exiled to Concordia when Satine’s new Mandalorians won the civil war. (I definitely think the tribes exist from before the clone wars, because Din had to end up in one of these to never see a Mandalorian taking their helmet off through his life as a foundling).

I know it sucks that she has banished Din, but it was their adherence to the creed what kept them alive so far, I find reasonable that she’s so harsh when it comes to it. And she still let him keep the dark saber despite not considering him a Mandalorian anymore, which I find super interesting. Emily Swallow, the actress who plays her, once said in an interview that the Armorer sees the potential that Din doesn’t see in himself.

I can only pray there’s a lot of nuance in the way they write her next xD I really don’t see her as a villain at all.

Anyway I had so much fun with this!! and it took me like...half a year to finish it cuz I’ve been so busy kajshdkaj finally it’s done!!!!!

I have a small post with my theory of where the tribe comes from here

[tarre-was-right]

ROUND ONE: MATCH-UP ONE

Remember, this is NOT about who would win in a fight. This is about who makes the best leader for Mandalore as a whole.

Explanation post

Seeding

Propaganda below the cut! You can submit more on this post and I will reblog it back to here!

SATINE KRYZE

Anon: Satine because she served. Mandalorian fashion week would love her. Manda'slay.

Anon: Satine Propaganda: Was supported by the STRONG MAJORITY, led Mandalore to be in peace for NEARLY 20 YEARS, didn't ban mando'a or armour or any part of the culture like fandom claims, is a good fighter, considered EVERY Mandalorian a Mandalorian and didn't discriminate

@lightsaberwieldingdalek: Satine propaganda: she actually ran a functioning government. Not a mercenary band, or a death cult, or a terrorist extremist organisation, an actual functioning government. Yes there was corruption, corruption she did her best to stop to the point of personally getting in firefights with smugglers, but she took a planet devastated by civil war and by the end of her rule she had schools, public works, and a justice system. - Sure, the rest can run military operations (and we don’t know Satine couldn’t, only that she *won’t*) but can they make the bins get emptied regularly to go to the recycling plants?

PRE VIZSLA

@bittodeath: Alright. Obviously, the best pick for a Mand'alor is Pre Vizsla. Not only is he from a large House that can boast from its ties to Tarre Vizsla, but he also wields the Darksaber, proving himself to be the rightful Mand'alor in the traditional ways. - He took Mandalore back from its pacifist ways through a coup in strict Mandalorian fashion, and allied himself with no less than two Sith Lords (Count Dooku & Darth Maul), again in accordance with old Mandalorian traditions and proving his might thus. - He's a fearsome warrior able to go toe-to-toe with a Jedi, and who imposes his will on all those around him. In the end, it is abject betrayal, but also a duel worthy of the old customs and songs that took him out, after he led Mandalore to glory - and his death led to the fracturing of Mandalore and its might, proving how much of a unifying leader he was.