#you know i would have LOVED actual neutrality be explored in sw canon

[bolithesenate]

Satine Kryze should not be a sympathetic character.

A complex and tragic one? Sure. Every day of the week.

But she did not 'have a point', neither in-universe, not outside of the sw framework. She isn't a hero, neither of her own story, nor of someone else's. There is no way she wasn't a tool. You should not look at her and think 'this woman has done nothing wrong and what ultimately happened to Mandalore was to no part her fault'.

Because guys. Friends. Strangers on the interwebs.

Pacifism doesn't work.

And it certainly wouldn't have worked in motherfucking Star Wars – the 'wars' is literally in the title – for a system or series of systems who wanted to stay neutral.

YOU DON'T STAY NEUTRAL FOR LONG BY JUST SAYING 'YEAH, NO THANKS <3' TO A LARGE-SCALE CONFLICT.

source: I am Swiss, we've looked at this in history class. Extensively.

Satine was a dreamer (thanks Obi-Wan) who was allowed to keep her delusions because they actively benefitted Palpatine's plans. And that's something you can quote me on. There is literally no other reason (apart from supremely bad writing but we'll leave that aside here) for her and her little friends' 'Alliance of Neutral Systems' or whatever to be allowed to exist.

Not that they were neutral in any way, shape or form, by the way.

So yeah sorry to the Satine stans, but you're idolizing a character that was written exclusively and specifically for Obi-Wan's manpain and who, in-universe, was a supremely bad politician. Because the level of mental dissonace needed to factually be a Republic System, have a seat in the fucking Republic Senate, rely upon their military for aid while actively proclaiming that All Violence Is Bad And Barbaric one sentence later AND THEN CLAIM TO BE NEUTRAL IN THE WHOLE CONFLICT – it's just mind-blowing. Even moreso that people actually look at this character and see something aspirational in her.

Again, I'll gladly dissect her character any day of the week. She is fascinating because of all the implications her existence as a head of state carries with it, as well as her deeply complicated family history and her relation to mandalorian culture.

But it just grates on me personally that that all gets ignored in favor of her being some sort of icon of white american saviorism (bc that's literally what she is) and her objectively bad political takes being treated like they are the only correct stance to be taken during the Clone Wars/Mandalorian Civil Wars.

If you think pacifism works and actually lets you stay neutral, I desperately urge you to open a history book. Because those two are mutually exclusive. Especially in the scenario that Star Wars paints.

[hellowkatey]

post-finale thoughts on the bad batch below the cut

[I'm specifically focusing on story and characters. this doesn't even begin to address the issues with their animation design, coloring, and the whole lot of racial, stereotypical, and ableist themes that show up, they are important to be aware of and speak out against. resources that I have found helpful are linked.]

@revenge-of-the-shit has a great compendium with lots of resources for both TBB and SW as a whole | change.org petition

okay.

As a SW fan, I am no stranger to putting up with meh writing because of my love for the characters. I love found family and I love the protective space dad trope with all my being, so TBB caught me by the hyperfixation... but not until the last few episodes of the season.

I loved Echo and Tech from the beginning. As someone who is neurodivergent, I relate to Tech a lot. And I've had a soft spot for Echo since TCW. Wrecker and Omega are more neutral for me. I like them but don't connect to them as much. My like for Hunter decreased as the season progressed, and I disliked Crosshair until episode 15. After part 1 of the finale, I went back and rewatched TCW backdoor pilot and actually began to understand Crosshair.

Coming into the 2nd part of the finale, I sort of expected them to discover Crosshair still had his chip despite claiming to already have it removed, remove it, and they fly off in the Marauder into the sunset, brothers again.

Obviously that is not what happened. But I'm not mad about that. I'm actually glad this didn't happen, though it hurt to see that wide shot of Crosshair standing alone on the platform as his brothers flew away.

I do think Crosshair still has his chip. I think the Empire tricked him into thinking they removed it. It's a mind game. Because Crosshair thinks he had the chip removed, he stops fighting the impulses to support the Empire over his team. He genuinely believes he has chosen this.

And, because Crosshair by nature is severe and unyielding (as Tech says), his natural personality is not far off from the aggression and standoffish shift that chipped clones display. But compared to how Crosshair was in TCW and the first episode, he's definitely not all there imo. The fact he remained loyal to the Empire after they destroyed Kamino with him on it (and the scenes of him still having headaches-- I mean, hello, how did the boys miss that??) is why I believe he is still chipped.

But I am glad Crosshair did not go with them even though it messes up the premise of a fic I wrote between ep. 15 and 16 (rip). The finale was important for bringing the boys back together so they can see they all still care about one another, but there's a difference in ideology. And there's a breach of trust on both sides.

Crosshair needs to see for himself that the Empire has been manipulating him and he needs to come to that conclusion on his own. The Bad Batch, mainly Hunter, needs to realize that they did abandon their brother because as soon as they figured out about the inhibitor chips their primary mission should have been getting Crosshair out of there.

In terms of the conflict between Crosshair & himself and Crosshair & The Bad Batch, I think the show did a good job. It's an extremely complex issue, and they depicted the characters as true humans that make mistakes and have to atone for them. I hope season 2 focuses on what they need to work on individually to be ready to come back together as a team.

That is why I think I watched the show but didn't really connect to it until we actually got back to the main conflict from the first episode.

But this was a 16-episode season. They filled half a season with cameos and odd-jobs which were hardly used it to advance the characters' arcs. (At least when the Mandalorian S2 did this, the cameos contributed to the journey in some way.)

Tech, Echo, and Wrecker basically got no development when there were lots of opportunities to explore this-- I mean, we have Echo who was a POW, the last of his squad, pretty well acquainted with the Jedi, and the only "reg" among them. Before he was taken by the Techno Union, he was a huge advocate of following orders and doing things by the books. I feel like he would have had a hard time with learning about the chips and Fives' death amongst other things. Tech and Crosshair were depicted working together a lot in TCW, and he is one of the few that (sort of) defends Crosshair in the finale, but that dynamic isn't explored much either. And Wrecker's chip actually activated and he hurts his brothers. Yet, there's not really any sort of fallout there either. I also feel like they alluded to Omega having some sort of special ability at the beginning and then we just never touched on it again.

I point out these things not just as a fan, but as someone who studied writing and storytelling in college. You can have your round and flat, dynamic and static characters, but they still should have a complete arc. And they all can't be flat. Especially as being part of the main cast. I think they focused mainly on external struggles and forgot about the internal ones, which would have been much more profound. If The Bad Batch was an anthology of their missions during TCW I would be a little more forgiving of the mission-to-mission episode format, but this immediately following Order 66. One of the most emotional moments in the SW franchise.

Don't get me wrong, I loved moments of the show. It's inspired me enough to read (and write) fic for it. And I've read some really kick ass writing that has fulfilled a lot of the desires I had for the show in terms of addressing internal conflict and character development. I'm well acquainted with the fandom by this point to know emotional depth is not often a priority in SW. But I did not expect the show to lack basic character development for main characters. I've browsed The Bad Batch AO3 tag a few times now, and a very large portion has to do with creating character development and backstory that doesn't exist in canon yet. I think that says a lot on its own.

This is long so I'll stop but my overall opinion of the show is bittersweet. If someone asked me what I thought of it in one sentence, I would say "it has potential". But since S2 is confirmed, it sounds like they should have time to see fan responses, take the valid criticisms to heart, and I think TBB has the potential to join the club of a beloved SW show with a rough first season.

[lightsaber-dorphin]

[Description: tags that read “#you know i would have [all caps] loved [end caps] actual neutrality be explored in sw canon #but n000o #we got Satine and her judgmental draft dodger club #give me neutral systems that [all caps] aren’t [end caps] having a happy fun time #that are shooting down republic and seperatist crafts alike when they cross their borders #that are struggling to stay self-sufficient during the wars and that have to make questionable deals with both sides to afford supplies #you know. things based in reality #there is no moral way to wage war #and there is no moral way to stay out of it #its a lose lose situation and I [all caps] wish [end caps] tow had treated this as such #random boli thoughts #just some meta ramblings to satisfy the blood demons #satine kryze critical #satine kryze #like. before you tell me I’m wrong name [all caps] one [end caps] single reason that the Separatists had for not immediately annexing Mandalore #or the 'neutral' systems in general #you dont stay neutral by just saying 'not my business' #you stay neutral by being too fucking annoying to annex #that is literally the only way #star wars #star wars meta” End]

Satine Kryze should not be a sympathetic character.

A complex and tragic one? Sure. Every day of the week.

But she did not 'have a point', neither in-universe, not outside of the sw framework. She isn't a hero, neither of her own story, nor of someone else's. There is no way she wasn't a tool. You should not look at her and think 'this woman has done nothing wrong and what ultimately happened to Mandalore was to no part her fault'.

Because guys. Friends. Strangers on the interwebs.

Pacifism doesn't work.

And it certainly wouldn't have worked in motherfucking Star Wars – the 'wars' is literally in the title – for a system or series of systems who wanted to stay neutral.

YOU DON'T STAY NEUTRAL FOR LONG BY JUST SAYING 'YEAH, NO THANKS <3' TO A LARGE-SCALE CONFLICT.

source: I am Swiss, we've looked at this in history class. Extensively.

Satine was a dreamer (thanks Obi-Wan) who was allowed to keep her delusions because they actively benefitted Palpatine's plans. And that's something you can quote me on. There is literally no other reason (apart from supremely bad writing but we'll leave that aside here) for her and her little friends' 'Alliance of Neutral Systems' or whatever to be allowed to exist.

Not that they were neutral in any way, shape or form, by the way.

So yeah sorry to the Satine stans, but you're idolizing a character that was written exclusively and specifically for Obi-Wan's manpain and who, in-universe, was a supremely bad politician. Because the level of mental dissonace needed to factually be a Republic System, have a seat in the fucking Republic Senate, rely upon their military for aid while actively proclaiming that All Violence Is Bad And Barbaric one sentence later AND THEN CLAIM TO BE NEUTRAL IN THE WHOLE CONFLICT – it's just mind-blowing. Even moreso that people actually look at this character and see something aspirational in her.

Again, I'll gladly dissect her character any day of the week. She is fascinating because of all the implications her existence as a head of state carries with it, as well as her deeply complicated family history and her relation to mandalorian culture.

But it just grates on me personally that that all gets ignored in favor of her being some sort of icon of white american saviorism (bc that's literally what she is) and her objectively bad political takes being treated like they are the only correct stance to be taken during the Clone Wars/Mandalorian Civil Wars.

If you think pacifism works and actually lets you stay neutral, I desperately urge you to open a history book. Because those two are mutually exclusive. Especially in the scenario that Star Wars paints.