#The Jenova Project

[freelanceexorcist]

Minor Rebirth spoilers under the cut.

I just realized something (I told you all it takes me a few tries for things to sink in).

Here's a screen grab of the Gast journal Sephiroth is reading out loud from right before he loses it:

Now this is probably just a stylistic choice to show the audience how top secret the Jenova Project was, but why are parts of it redacted? And at what time were the redactions made?

It just seems like an odd choice. If a document contains information that's sensitive enough that redaction is required for parts of it, why leave it in the basement of an abandoned mansion that anyone can access (difficult as it is to do so)? Why not move all of them and store them in a secure facility that can only be accessed by those with the proper clearance?

Yeah, I know we're talking about scientists that suck so bad at recording data that they didn't even document the date of birth and the blood type of the project's only successful result, but still.

This leads me to think that the redactions aren't of anything top secret, but for the purpose of spreading disinformation. I can't help but wonder if my suspicions about Hojo having a hand in engineering Sephiroth's breakdown are correct and that he wanted him to have disinformation for that reason. The blacked out parts may have led him away from the conclusion that Hojo wanted him to come to.

So what has been blacked out? Lucrecia's name? That she's Sephiroth's mother and Hojo is his father? References to pregnancy and birth that would inform Sephiroth that yes, he was born and not manufactured so therefore, yes, he was a human being that was fucked with in the womb? Mentions of Vincent? Anything that would justify or explain why his childhood was so awful and why he was kept isolated?

And as far as who did the redacting and when, you know Hojo did that shit. And he did it right after he decided that it would be great for science to drop Shinra's live nuke into a small town then slowly drive him to a breakdown with disinformation. I wonder how many entire books were removed before Sephiroth and the gang showed up.

I wonder if this will come up at all in part 3. If not, I'm just overthinking it as usual. But if it does...hmm.

[level99challenge]

the jenova project.

--

protect trans kids

[ilminnestrone]

Guys, I hate to be that person, but Genesis and Angeal being older than Sephiroth is not a theory: it's the literal narrative of Crisis Core.

Genesis is an academic with a perfect use of language for dramatic purposes, and he told the story of the Jenova Project in perfect order: first Project G, then Project S, using the failures of the former to ensure a good success of the latter.

The progress is clear: Failure (Genesis) < still not there (Angeal) < success (Sephiroth)

Sephiroth being the youngest is not speculation, but intentional storytelling. They could always retcon this, but there was no doubt in the original script, at least the fact that Project G came first.

There could still make Genesis the middle child because their order of birth has not being stated, but there's no doubt about Sephiroth being the youngest, since Genesis stated it in Nibelheim.

Yeah, it would be awkward having a character called "The Origin" not being the first born, but in meta he would still be the origin of the crisis, so it could work. I don't like this option -logically the biggest "error" should be on the first try- but that's the only non-canon thing they could change without retconning.

I could go on telling you that basically Genesis also told us that Sephiroth is genetically sterile. Which makes perfect sense: Hojo could have just made another S by reproduction if it was possible.

I have a bunch of theories about the genetics of AGS, but they could sum up in "Genesis and Angeal are chimeras, Sephiroth is an hybrid" (and most hybrids, expecially males, are indeed sterile due to extra chromosomes).

[valentimmy]

Hey, man. Can we see some of the doodles you have done, so far?

this is all I got ….

[feathercreates]

POV you just told degrading Genesis he's still pretty uwu

[getvalentined]

Differentiating the "Black Robes"

For folks who didn't catch it on their own playthrough or (or watch-through) of FF7 Rebirth, here's a quick breakdown of the apparent nature of the people in black robes seen throughout both this game, and previously in Remake.

This differs from OG canon, where everyone in a black robe was a Sephiroth Copy, but in the FF7R timeline they appear to be broken into three "types."

SPOILERS BELOW — READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

NO NUMBER TATTOO means this is a G-type SOLDIER suffering from degradation. These people are terminally ill. Degradation sets in within five years of enhancement [see Note 1 below], and accelerates very quickly without aggressive treatment.

Known G-type SOLDIERs: Roche, Azul, Rosso, and Shelke Rui. Population: over 100.

A ONE- OR TWO-DIGIT NUMBER TATTOO indicates S-type SOLDIERs in the throes of Reunion. These people are not terminally ill, based on dev comments confirming that S-type SOLDIERs don't degrade, but they have a cellular leash that is being constantly yanked on by Sephiroth/Jenova. Without Reunion taking place, most of them would presumably live long, fairly healthy lives. [See Note 2 below.]

Known S-type SOLDIERs: Zack Fair, Kunsel, Luxiere, and Broden. Population: presumed fewer than 100.

A TATTOO STARTING WITH "SC" confirms these people are successful Sephiroth Copies. Failures do not receive a tattoo. They may or may not be terminally ill, contingent upon which type of SOLDIER they were prior to the procedure to make them into a Copy, and the leash on their own cellular makeup is much stricter, much more direct, and gives them a clearer concept of where to go and what to do.

Known Sephiroth Copies: Roche (successful), Zack Fair (declared failure), and Cloud Strife (declared failure). Population: 4 subjects in total, plus 2 known failures.

Tattoos don't seem to be applied at the time of enhancement, since none of the SOLDIERs in Crisis Core have them, but it's possible that early inductees like Broden were marked when they survived the treatments; this seems likely, as Broden's tattoo is in a slightly different typeface than the tattoos of others in his "type."

I didn't include Sephiroth, Genesis or Angeal under known members of their given types, as they were never normal humans and were not enhanced using one method or the other as teens or young adults. Those who are Jenova babies from birth don't count. I also didn't include two members of DeepGround due to the fact that they canonically cannot actually be G-type SOLDIERs based on the lore of how the two of them were made and how they function in general; they may be G-type on paper, but they are not G-type for the purposes of this analysis.

Lastly, I'll admit that this breakdown may appear to be slightly inconsistent during gameplay, but this seems to be due only to the reuse of models between black robed individuals, presumably to take stress off the dev team. I'm fine with this, obviously, no crunch is good crunch. As far as I can tell it's pretty consistent in full cutscenes, though, so I'm sticking with it until the third game proves me wrong.

—

NOTE 1: The timeframe for degradation is based on Roche suffering from the condition prior to his becoming a Sephiroth Copy, which is visible in the fact that he has a handful of incongruously pale streaks through his hair prior to the procedure; an attempt to cure this is presumably the reason he volunteered to work with Hojo in the first place.

According to the Remake Ultimania, Roche joined SOLDIER after the Nibelheim Incident, so he's only been in the program for five years at the most; this timeframe also allows us to recognize S-type SOLDIERs, as they've been in the program for significantly longer with no known ill effects (e.g.: Kunsel has been in the program since at least 2000, but is mentioned by name and indicated to be at headquarters in Remake, showing that he's still on active duty in 0007; this wouldn't be the case if he were suffering from degradation, so he can't be a G-type.)

NOTE 2: The capacity of S-type SOLDIERs to live fairly normal lives with minimal major health issues is proven by the existence of Broden, who identifies himself as a SOLDIER but was certainly part of Project 0; he and Mildred left home as teenagers and wound up with Shinra, but Mildred doesn't know the name of the project into which he was conscripted, only that it was "top secret."

Combined with the apparent age of both characters in-game, this indicates that Broden took part in the project before SOLDIER was even SOLDIER, putting him as one of its earliest successful operatives, probably enhanced sometime between 1983 and 1985 based on the timeline provided in the First SOLDIER Battle Royale opening cutscene—hence why his number is the lowest shown on a person in a black robe in the entire game. This puts him in his forties at the youngest during the Crisis, and he functions just fine (albeit with some other issues we can assume were caused by the enhancement procedure being imperfect at the time of his enlistment) until Reunion starts to call him toward the end of 0007.

[altocat]

More cringe memes. Lucrecia Edition.

[sephirthoughts]

real ever crisis talk: why are they retconning the whole project g and jenova project lore for this mobile gacha game? they could introduce angeal without doing any of that bullshit.

it all seems like it’s adding up to more excuses to villainise and minimize the queer coded character that all the homophobe shithead gamebros hate. at this moment, i’m not optimistic about where ever crisis is headed.

note: i know having the capacity to engage critically with media one appreciates and enjoys is a higher level brain function but please don’t let this alarm and frighten you into getting angry with me, thinking i’m attacking your precious comfort thing. i love ff7 very much and that is why i’m not pleased with the cheapening and diluting of the story i see happening.

[umbralstars]

Okay! So, definitively, 100%, Angeal is older than Sephiroth. Which says Something about the Project G and S timelines

[geekysteven]

[mobiusstripper]

For Lucrecia FFVII

7- What do you like most about this character?

8- Do you think this character is underrated or overrated?

9- What’s your favourite headcanon(s) for this character?

Ooh thank you!

What do you like most about this character?

She's completely integral to the story! And she gets totally sidelined! Who is she?! Why did she do the things she did?! I want to know! I need to know! Why don't more people want to know?

Do you think this character is underrated or overrated?

Totally underrated. Most people either don't care about her at all or just straight-up hate her with zero curiosity about her character or motives. Also, when they hate on her, they tend to be really misogynistic about it.

What’s your favourite headcanon(s) for this character?

Of the few fandom folks who really like to deep dive into Lucrecia, I think I might be the one who gives the most credence to Dirge of Cerberus. It's not that I don't agree with the assessment that it's a shit game - but it planted certain headcanon seed in my brain during my teenage years that have endured to this day. The linchpin of my headcanon for the dynamics between the parties involved in the Jenova Project is and always will be Grimoire Valentine. In my version of the story, he was a surrogate father figure to Lucrecia, and she was a surrogate child to him. He put a lot of energy into mentoring her and looking out for her on a personal level to cope with his guilt over emotionally abandoning Vincent (from whom he was estranged for the last ten years of his life). Lucrecia gradually comes to realize this and harbors a deep jealousy toward Vincent before she ever meets him. I love this because it adds some heavy layers of "fucked up" to Lucrecia's relationship with Vincent.

[moonynights556]

okay so i think the ffvii brainrot is finally getting to me

i was rewatching Game Theory’s happy meat farm theories, and i realized it’s literally just the jenova project:

subjects in the R&D department are being enhanced through injection of ‘mother’s’ DNA, giving them boosted strength and intelligence so that mother may create a ‘new world order.’ the only difference is that SOLDIERs don’t get eaten— i don’t think. plus jenova and ‘mother’ are featured at some point with tentacles— i know there are more differences than this but hrjskjfjgngk

i’m gonna die someone please help

[sagetsukimura]

Was timeline-ing FFVII for a fic and it occurred to me that Genesis was in Wutai when he finally got all the clues about the human experimentation- the degradation could be passed off as something with the SOLDIER serum. Hollander was in Modgar, but Genesis was in Wutai when he and the crew deserted, right?

Playing EC, Glenn was kinda in the area...

So do you think it's possible it WASN'T Hollander who spilled the beans? How did Genesis get the fuller scope of the situation all the way out there? I'm wondering if Glenn is going to be involved...

Poll because I want to know peoples thoughts on this before I decide which way I want to go with the fic (that may never see the light of day but you never know)

[holly-fixation]

So, Sephiroth is looking for his mother. He's trying so hard to find the truth.

And he finds the truth.

She regrets having him, she saw the visions of his monstrous crimes, she tried to kill herself and eventually froze herself in a crystal. She is alive. She can talk, she can answer all the questions. But she found her peace, convinced that Sephiroth was dead.

So maybe little Sephiroth shouldn't visit her.

If he loves her, he should let her believe he didn't survive Hojo's experiments. That is her wish

Then her wish is not granted.

Did you know that parents of missing persons always say its better to find out their child is dead? Because it gives them closure? That's the one thing that finding out about everything second hand will not give Sephiroth.

He would try to speak with her. He would find her crystal cavern and beg her to face him. He would list every personal question he had about her thoughts and her decisions and why why why. She is the only person on the planet that he would believe because all he wants to do is deny what he's heard.

He wanted a normal life and she abandoned him. She claimed to see a future he can't even comprehend. She ran away and found this suspended peace while leaving him with the company that treats him like a weapon. Like a cyborg. Like a tool with a single purpose he cannot stray from. She does not get the satisfaction of lying to herself and believing he is dead. For once in his life, he has someone that knows the whole truth and all he wants is to hear it from Her.

Jenova. Lucrecia Crescent. Whatever her name really is.

And who tells him this? Who knows enough to explain exactly what happened and has the resources to find her? Who gave him a photo of the woman that birthed and abandoned him and later admitted an unfathomable truth in replacement?

The man who denied him answers. The man that never gave him the whole truth. The man that never let him interact with people or "have fun". Sephiroth will deny every word unless he hears it from her.

But she never leaves her crystal.

He locks himself in the data room for two reasons: so people would leave him alone and so he can find any real documentation on this event. Of why Shinra chose him of all children to be this soldier and live this restricted, 'special' life.

Hojo only tells him about his mother. Nothing more, nothing less.

So when he's in Nibelheim, when he sees the fake name Hojo gave him as a child written on the walls of a monster creation facility within a mako reactor, he needs every answer he can get. In the depths of Shinra Manor, he learns more half truths unknowingly. Desperately. Pleadingly. Trying to ignore that pull in his chest, the ache in his heart.

Yet the more he learns, the kinder the pull is. The sweeter the invisible sound. The velvet touches of promises and acceptance and even gratitude if he just obeys.

Why would he deny someone that cares enough to reach for him when the woman he chased won't even acknowledge he's alive?

[glorfys-glorioushair]

So I uh made a thing...

[getvalentined]

One thing that really gets me about Sephiroth's obsession with his mother is that it had to have been instilled in him by Gast and Hojo. Assuming he was raised by the company and in Gast's care until the guy ran off, after which he was shuffled off into Hojo's custody (all of which is either overtly canon or heavily implied enough to be considered canon), it wouldn't have been particularly difficult to pull him away from the whole concept.

Children are dangerously impressionable for the first several years of their lives, it's indescribably easy to condition them into seeing things as normal—this is why a lot of abused children don't talk about anything being wrong, because that's their normal. It would have been very little work to indicate to Sephiroth starting very young that his mother died when he was born, but it's fine because that's not uncommon and he doesn't need to worry about it.

But Gast (and Hojo) didn't do that. Gast at the very least ingrained this concept into his head that his mother was special; he'd have been the one who told Sephiroth her name, who told him anything about her, because he had him at his youngest and he was the one who was so obsessed with the Cetra. One of them even gave him a photo of her* so that he'd know what she looked like, even if the woman in that photo wasn't Jenova.

They nurtured that longing for a loving parent, something that would only have been worth the effort to instill if being used as a form of manipulation. They knew his mother, she was involved with the company, the only way he'd ever know anything would be if he stayed and listened and did as he was told. The longer he stayed, the more he'd understand, and the more likely it would be that he'd find out about her. They made sure that he knew the only way to ever get any information on the one person who might have loved him unconditionally, who wouldn't have abandoned him or abused him if she'd had a choice, was to be loyal and obedient.

They led him along with the prospect, the hope that someone out there might have loved him for himself instead of for what he could do. Someone out there might have loved him for who he was, not what he could become.

They absolutely must have done this intentionally. Gast started it, Hojo continued it, and Lucrecia never had a chance to intervene. Gast may not have had ulterior motives in the malicious sense, as he believed that Sephiroth was the son of a Cetra—but he never told Sephiroth that, did he? Because Sephiroth was shocked by the discovery in Nibelheim, he didn't know until then that he was, allegedly, the last of the Ancients. Gast never told him.

But he told him his mother's name was Jenova, he told him he was special, he was kind and supportive through Sephiroth's most formative years. We know that because of how he behaves as a young teenager, the values and patterns of behavior that were instilled in him prior to being surrendered to Hojo's abuse in the name of progress. We know that because of how he talks about Gast, and how he compares to Hojo.

Gast and Hojo gave Sephiroth the concept of "mother" as someone that was good and kind and would love him no matter what, and turned it into a leash that bound him to Shinra for life.

Absolutely evil people.

*The photo was given to Sephiroth by Hojo, as a note. Based on FSBR and DoC, Lucrecia was still with the company until around 1984, when Gast left; she was on Project 0 then, not the Jenova Project, and there didn't seem to be any overlap since Hojo also didn't appear to have access to Sephiroth until he got control of the department, but it still would have been a very risky thing for Gast to do. Hojo seemingly got custody of Sephiroth around the same time that Lucrecia ran off into the mountains, which was also around the same time that Gast went AWOL, so Hojo may very well have given the photo to Sephiroth in an attempt to ingratiate himself to the boy during the transition in custody.

It makes more sense that Hojo would have the photo than Gast, anyway—Lucrecia was and is Hojo's wife. Of course he has a photo of his wife. Of course he held onto it all this time. Of course he gave it to the only part of her he had left, the great work they created together. Sephiroth was her project too.