#REAL LIFE PEOPLE CAN'T QUEERBAIT

[dramaticallytrue]

if i went on big brother said i was kissing girls and theythems and then my identity was discounted as a queer person in the bb tag because i don't explicitly Declare Bisexuality/Queerness....i'd move on and know that that person is not someone who has met my corner of the gay community that literally talks like that :)

[bean-spring]

"lacy" is about loving somebody a whole lot but despite that love still being jealous of them because they have everything you don't. could be a best friend. could be a crush. it doesn't matter how you see it, but the main topic here is how jealousy can make you loathe someone you absolutely are head over heels for just because you feel so inferior to them it kills you. because you can't actually hate them and you never will.

[animentality]

the funny thing about the Black Butler revival is that Sebaciel is taking a lot of heat right now, here in the year of our lord and savior 2024, in which all ships are problematic and toxic.

because it's a pedo ship.

which is the most perfect low hanging fruit in all of anti existence.

but like, Sebaciel is really a microcosm of pro vs anti ship discourse in general, right?

everyone insists oh you like Sebaciel? you must be a pedophile... while totally ignoring that a lot of fucking teenage girls read Black Butler and imagine themselves AS CIEL. they have a crush on SEBASTIAN.

that's why they ship them. they're not generally lusting for the minor, they're imagining themselves as the minor, being MINORS themselves, and have crushes on the suave sexy demon guy... because that's literally budding adolescence in a nut shell.

Sure there are people who lust for ciel... but it's a fucking shonen. it's for teens.

Teens are allowed to have fucking crushes on Ciel and Naruto and Ichigo. They're also allowed to have crushes on adults, WHO ARE NOT REAL and can't return their affections or hurt them in literally any way other than fictional related trauma.

is it really that shocking that teens are projecting themselves on/lusting for the fucking kid protagonists? you know, like they're generally going to do??? because they're hormonal but also bc it's very normal for humans to have goddamn crushes on human shaped (and less human shaped) things???

and is it really that shocking that teens girls would lust after Sebastian?

are you telling them they can't do that, and then also ship their little self insert goth child with the object of their affection?

and also.

ALSO.

the harder thing for these people to swallow...

fucking adults can ship anything they want too.

literally who gives a fuck

just shipping a problematic age difference ship doesn't make you anything at all.

being an asshole in fandom spaces does, like harassing people for shipping or not shipping Sebaciel, sending death threats, doxing, whatever, but just the act of jerking it to Sebaciel fanfics, or writing them for yourself and friends, is not a goddamn crime.

nor is it anything other than a Catholic sin.

so I'm laughing at the modern discourse, as angry adults and teens try to cancel Sebaciel.

tale as old as time. but also Sebaciel is the fucking OG.

The og of queerbait shotacon nonsense.

you weren't gonna stop people in 2008, you won't stop them now.

just hang out in your own space and leave other people alone.

also just fyi. I don't ship this.

I ship toxic old man yaoi.

but I'm rolling my eyes and slapping you if I see you in the wild insisting a Sebaciel artist is a pedophile guilty of a real crime in real life.

get some fucking perspective.

[wellofdean]

Thinking about @luckshiptoshore and her liveblog of watching Supernatural and how much I love following it and how great it is to watch someone just fucking ENJOY the show...

And then, there were a couple of people in my Discord who love the fic, but have never watched the show, and folks in there were trying to convince them that it was worth watching (duh!) and that knowing the show by heart makes the fic so much better and like yes, again... DUH! And then I was suddenly overcome with such a feeling of ENVY for all the people who still have the chance to watch Supernatural for the first time already knowing what happens in the end.

I mean, I watched 14 years of it in real time (after downloading and bingeing season 1) and at least I was clever enough not to be in the fandom trenches that whole time, and just enjoyed it for what it was, but the end broke my brain, and changed the whole show for me.

Because, like, here's what happens in Supernatural by the end: Dean and Cas are in love. It was not subtle. Dean can't say it because he never has a single moment of not being up to his pretty, pretty eyeballs in dealing with the ongoing and constantly multiplying trauma of being the man his father raised him to be, and god's specialest boy to boot, but in the end, Cas finally does just fucking say it. Not only that, he waits until he can use it to save Dean, and show him once and for all in an incontrovertible, undeniable way exactly how deeply and truly loved and SEEN he is.

When you watch it knowing that, knowing that the the whole story is going to end in that stupid bunker dungeon with Cas telling Dean who he is and dying to save him, the whole thing just HITS DIFFERENT, because the Dean of season one with his outcast liminality and pretty, pretty lips is the poor, lonely, weird boy who will one day be loved like that by Castiel, an angel of the lord -- an impossible Eldritch being who learned what love and selfhood are from closely observing Dean.

The consensus amongst most Supernatural fans is that it is trashy and bad and that its all evil queerbaiting, but I would contend that it's actually deeply entertaining, culturally rich and interesting (yes, even its flaws and missteps), often impressively well-written and acted, never puts on any airs about being prestige television or high art, but still manages to be ultimately epic and somehow sublime, and that it's a queer story, about queer love saving the universe, and it is so, so worth watching.

Like, my brainworms are not 'they strung me along all that time and then never let them make out', by brainworms are 'they told us so many times and in so many big and small ways, and now I need to watch every bit of it again and again and again so I can finally REVEL IN IT (and, friends, that is the Supernatural rewatch journey: realising it was ALWAYS THERE). My brainworms aren't 'but does Dean reciprocate??' they are: 'of course he loves Cas, and of course Cas knows that Dean loves him, and the one thing Cas can't have? That's just his chance at happiness and a soft epilogue with and for Dean, because Cas, impossible, cosmic, Eldritch being Cas, traded his chance at happiness for his family's lives and sacrificed himself for love of his son and Dean, because that is what you do when you love someone, and what he has watched Dean never stop doing for even a minute of his beleaguered life.'

And then, Dean dies (yes, it's stupid), and he cannot just go to heaven, drink a beer and hang out, he needs to climb into his magic soul vehicle, hit the axis mundi and tear the universe up looking for his angel and his happy ending in The Winchesters? Fuck me.

And like, it's the most romantic, and devastating story I have ever been told? And I love it so much?

[nqueso-emergency]

I've been a 911 fan since it started, but have only joined the fandom since S7 (what can I say, BT reeled me in). I've been in various fandoms over the years, and seeing/hearing a lot of what the toxic buddie shippers have been up to reminds me a HELL of a lot of the toxic Lena/Kara shippers from the Supergirl fandom. Like Buddie, they interpreted a romantic relationship that didn't exist from the most obscure stuff, they harassed anyone who shipped (mostly Kara) with anyone else, and they sent abuse, death threats etc to the actors who played rival LI's as well as the writers.

And the show suffered for it. One by one, the male cast members who were copping the abuse left the show. Kara's main LI (played by the actor Melissa Benoist (Kara) eventually fell in love with and married in real life) who appeared in S2 left in S3, and the writers seemed too afraid to give their MAIN CHARACTER a LI arc until the final season (who they then promptly killed off). Melissa Benoist chose not to renew her contract after S6 (thus ending the show) and I can understand why, considering the toxic shippers were saying things like they wished her husband and FATHER OF HER CHILD would die, all because his CHARACTER remained the only viable contender for Kara's LI throughout the run of the show. And while some of the actors tried calling these "fans" out for their behaviour, saying "hey, we're human too, please be kind", it didn't help that they had some of those shippers in the media, spinning the tale about this "great romance" (that never existed) and thus never calling these people out (instead boosting their delusions that one day, their ship would be canon - and boy were they pissed when it never did, feeling like they had been "cheated" and "queerbaited").

And then these shippers would justify their actions by saying they wanted to see "representation" with a f/f ship rather than the main ending up with a "straight white guy" while completely ignoring that a) the two characters in their ship were canonically straight and b) there already WAS representation! Kara's sister, one of the main's, was a lesbian! But in an episode where Kara's sister got married to a woman, some of the biased "media" declared that the episode "could have been gayer" if only their pair had got together.

Hmm, doesn't all of this stuff sound kind of familiar...

Thankfully, the 911 actors and writers seem to be handling all this a little better because so far it looks like they aren't caving to a toxic minority and have started shutting it down when it pops up. But these people are only human, and I just worry that one day this hate is going to get to them and we might see the show suffer as a result, whether it be from actors choosing to leave or writers taking the easier option and choosing to no longer tell the stories they want to tell. I know shows don't last forever, but when 911 eventually does end, I'd like it to be able to end organically, not forced to an early end because a bunch of people can't handle their pair not getting together

Thank you for sharing this with me!! Omg it's the exact same shit we're seeing!!

Tbh, I'd say this is the exact reason why Oliver and Ryan don't really comment on the treatment of their LI. It would just add fuel to the fire.

And if you don't think people who were associated with Supergirl talk to 911 people... you're extremely naive.

The real issue here is IF an actor were to leave the show, it would most likely be Ryan seeing as a majority of the problematic people are Ryan/Eddie stans first.

[heretherebedork]

I really do worry, as these BL actors get older and more comfortable in their lives and work with more people over more years, that this brand pairing is going to cause a lot more pain to both actors and fandom than we're considering right now. From people heartbroken over actors separating to people being upset that actors are friends with each other after a series to people calling it queerbatiing when real people are clear they're not dating each other... parasocial relationships have not slowed down and the people who theorize about real relationships and get invested in Every Little Thing are only growing. I've seen videos trying to compare them wearing rings in official photographs and the amount of people who are convinced that all of these actor pairs are not just dating in real life but also secretly in love forever who get heartbroken each time they try to continue their career...

It's one reason why, no matter how much fun fanservice can be, it's not something I feel able to participate in because it's so easy to see the people get sucked in and I find uncomfortable to try to enjoy something that's just fun and goofy with people who are So Absolutely Convinced This Is Real that they're out counting up money they're spending on birthday gifts for each other or videotaping their mothers at events and trying to decide what they're saying and it's just... it's wild to me.

(This brought to you by me enjoying some BL shorts and somehow ending up, despite my best efforts to trim them out, with a lot of shipper/fanservice content that is now constantly filled with people being heartbroken over so many pairings that, like, did one show together.)

I understand fanservice and don't condemn it, it can just be fun and amusing and cute! But people take it far, far too seriously... to the point that we can see shows being shaped around it and that it can make it harder to find success for actors who don't pair brand even if they're good or better actors and it's just wild to me, honestly.

But just... look, I get it, they're good actors and they put a lot of time into making this all look and feel as real as possible because that's what people expect. That's what fanservice has come to mean. And that, in a lot of ways, traps actors into not just a pair brand but often into specific roles and when they want to expand those roles... they're met with these objections and to people upset that they're working with someone new or doing something new or trying to be themselves and trying to be friends with people and it's just... it's so wild to me.

I try not to talk about actors because they're real people and I don't know them. I can't talk about them like that. But I can talk to the fans. And I can say that.

They are all real people. They cannot queerbait you. They probably aren't really dating. And they don't owe you anything. They don't owe you the truth, whatever that might be. They aren't lying, they're acting. That's what you want them to be doing!

I really do worry about this as BL actors keep acting in BLs as they grow up because when they're younger their worlds are smaller and they're just starting out but now there are BL actors in their thirties and they're leading living and kissing homies for fun and staying friends with old acting buddies and there are fans who aren't keeping up with that and they're always the scary ones, somehow.

[the-modern-typewriter]

Just wanted to say thank you so, so much for writing Fate's Favourite. I actually found and loved your blog before I ever found that fanfic, and it was a delight to know it was written by you, and it's so clear how you've improved. But Fate's Favourite will always have a part of my heart, because it's the first story I've read that just has a platonic friendship that feels as equal as a romantic one without being romantic? And as a lonely aroace that means everything. EVERYTHING. (1/2)

(2/2) I had a conversation today that reminded me that I'm never going to have the queerplatonic relationship I want that I've always wanted since I was a child, and how it makes me want to write one so much more, but then I've never managed to write the story I've wanted to write my entire life because I'd always be afraid of being accused of queerbaiting or people just going, 'but it's actually just a gay romance this isn't what friendship looks like' and just. Thank you for Fate's Favourite.

--

Wow. FF is a blast from the past!

You are very welcome.

Apologies for the long, self-indulgent reply.

That story was one of the first things I ever properly wrote and my first (maybe second?) truly long-form story ever. I thus have a soft spot for it, even though in terms of craft and technique I can't so much as look at it without seeing all my numerous beginner flaws and cringing and can't bring myself to actually point people to it. Much improvement since then, as you say!

(An excellent reminder that writing is a learned skill.)

Anyway. The other interesting thing about that story is that I wrote it before I'd ever heard of asexuality or realised that was what I was. I was a very confused teenager being bombarded with this pressure to have crushes and date people and all that general societal messaging we have about romance being the most important thing ever. Especially in YA.

So I'd go home after school and write that story.

Obviously it's more unhealthy than what I'd want for myself in my real life, but the sheer intensity of feeling and importance of the platonic main relationship was something I had also never seen before but craved. And still crave, honestly. So I feel ya.

As for queerbaiting...

A lot of readers at the time told me they viewed the story as 'pre-romance'. AKA, it's a romantic relationship and they haven't realised it yet for whatever reason. They mostly didn't mean that badly, I don't think.

(Although I sometimes think though that if the term 'queerbaiting' was as broadly known and misused then as it is now that I would have been mercilessly lambasted out of ever writing again! And I wouldn't have known how to articulate the fact that wasn't, actually, what I was doing. I think we need to be kind to new writers. I think 'content creator' is gutting something vital in the ecosystem. But that's another rabbit hole.)

So I've been there. It happens. But other people's bad takes didn't change the story and what it meant to me as a lonely ace teenager or what it meant to you.

I have had readers before make a similar comment to you about how it was the first time they got to see something so important to their heart portrayed.

That matters so much more than whatever people say about your writing who don't need it.

Which is why we have to keep writing the stories.

Even if it's clumsy and raw. Even if it's the first thing you've ever tried. Even if it's (especially if) it's a messed up fantasy straight from the most primal part of your brain.

If we don't write it, it won't exist.

And that's so much worse.

The nay-sayers can come to the party, but it wasn't thrown in their honour.

[mileven11forever]

Hey! I disagree with you completely but I respect that you seem to be a kind and respectful Mileven. So I’m curious.

What would you say to the idea that if Mileven is endgame, based on the way the story has been written especially in S4 (with Will being in every Mileven shot, Will’s painting inspiring Mike to monologue to El, paralleling Byler to Rovickie and other ships, just the whole story of building out Will’s feelings for Mike over 4 seasons in what would be a slowburn rejection if you’re right), the Duffers have inherently crafted a homophobic and problematic story?

Most Bylers don’t just believe Byler endgame makes the most sense for the story, nor do we just believe it would be queerbaiting because of promotion outside the show. We believe the story itself is deeply problematic when viewed through a Mileven endgame lens.

The idea that this kid Will would go through all of this suffering and that they’d emphasize the bond between Mike and Will in this way… the idea that Will would say “I’m not gonna fall in love” in S3 because he doesn’t believe there’s love for gay kids like him… the idea of the painting veiled confession… the idea that the writers would have Byler literally end the season together side by side alongside other canon couples… only to have Mike reject Will in S5?

We believe that to be horribly homophobic writing, so to us it’s not simply a question of which ship we like more like other ship wars in history, but a real moral line in the sand. We believe it’s either Byler endgame, or the show falls apart, and the writers have explaining to do.

It’s not that hypothetical story of a gay kid falling in love with his straight best friend is homophobic, it’s the specific narrative choices that would be surrounding Mileven endgame in this context, each of them completely avoidabl, each of them specific decisions the writers made.

Additionally, Bylers believe Mileven endgame would A) make the show’s writing weaker and less meaningful, B) make the show make significantly less sense from a writing standpoint, and C) go against the main themes of the narrative.

Lastly, if Will were a girl, based on the way Mileven and Byler have both been written, there’s no way Milevens wouldn’t see the clear love triangle. The only reason it’s difficult for some to see it is because of heteronormativity and the idea that Mike is straight because he has a girlfriend. If you remove that, there aren’t any barriers to at least seeing the clear triangle.

Thoughts?

I honestly just disagree. I don't think there's anything wrong with the story and the way it's being told. Will being in Mileven shots in season 4 is because it was from his POV in those moments. Will's painting didn't really inspire Mike's monologue, he just helped Mike find the courage to tell El how he really feels. And I don't really see the parallels people point out as being significant proof of anything. I do think Will's story will involve being rejected by Mike, while also being accepted by Mike as a friend. That's just what his story is, that's something a lot of queer people go through, there's nothing wrong with writing a character having to deal with and overcome that. I think it'll be an important part of Will's arc and character development. I don't see anything problematic or homophobic with any of that personally.

Yes, Will has suffered a lot unfortunately, but that's just his story, that's how life is for some people. He's unlucky and has just happened to be in these awful situations throughout his life, but that has nothing to do with Mike or his feelings. It's sad, but that's just how it is. Just like Will can't control how he feels about Mike, Mike can't control how he feels either, and that he loves El and just loves Will as a friend. It sucks that Will fell for his straight best friend, but that happens lots in real life too. And yeah, Will thinks he can't have love like everyone else because of his sexuality, and because of the time and place he lives in, which sucks, but also doesn't mean that he's automatically going to end up with his childhood crush. I think he should end up with someone eventually, but I just don't think it can be Mike. He needs to learn that he can have love and be loved, but just how he can't choose his sexuality, Mike can't either. They both can't change who they are, and that's ok.

I do think the painting will come up at some point and probably lead to Will's confession to Mike, but again, that's just Will finally sharing his feelings which has nothing to do with how Mike will respond. It'll be complicated, but Mike isn't going to just suddenly fall in love with Will when he finds out the truth about the painting.

And Mike and Will stand together at the end because they're friends. Just because the other pairs happen to be couples doesn't mean Byler is going to be endgame. That would be ridiculous in my opinion. I really don't understand when Bylers look so deep into little details like this and use that as evidence, it could literally mean nothing, or something other than Byler.

Once again, I don't think the writing choices the Duffers have made are homophobic, they just want to tell Will's story a certain way, and I don't see a problem with it.

I just don't agree. I think Mileven endgame is good writing, I think Byler endgame would make no sense. Mileven doesn't make the messages of the show any less meaningful in my opinion.

And yeah, I think that's probably true for some people. Heteronormativity is very prevalent and some people are definitely in denial about the obvious love triangle. I accept that there is a love triangle there, I just don't agree with a lot of people on how it will be resolved. Will likes Mike, El likes Mike, and Mike likes El. That's how I see it. I feel like the show has made this clear, and it's obvious which couple is actually happening in the canon story. Some Bylers just read a lot of meaning into things that I don't think was meant to be read like that.

If anyone has anything else to add, leave a comment or reblog this post.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

thoughts on sokka and zuko's netflix actors ian ousley and dallas liu (jokingly?) teasing zukka in interviews? are they queerbaiting?

For those who don't know what the fuck queerbaiting is: you know how Disney announced "it's first openly gay character" in literally every movie they've been releasing lately, and these "characters" are always on screen for only 5 seconds so it won't annoy conservatives or be banned in China?

That's them trying to use the promise of gay content to get people (be it gay people or someone that just wants to know if Disney will handle the subject properly) to watch their stuff. It's just false advertizing in rainbow colors.

Netflix, being the cheap bastards that they are, love using "We got minorities in this!" to advertise either their bland, bad shows that will get a million seasons, or the rare good show that they'll cancel way too soon because they seem to be alergic to quality. Either way, the gay content they promise audiences is usually there - you know, it's just not good because Netflix hates good things. Hell, they made Oma and Shu a lesbian couple from what I've seen.

Considering I've heard that the cast of the Avatar Live Action is pretty comfortable dunking on Zutara as a ship despite it being crazy popular and some fans literally only watching the show because they thought it'd make Zutara canon, and even having the balls of saying their show is less problematic than the OG one because they cut the plot of Sokka unlearning sexism, I'd say they're not claiming to like Zukka because some executive told them to, in the hopes of getting people to watch. The actors are probably either two buddies joking around because "Dude, what if our characters got together?" or saw some fanart/headcanon on Twitter and rolled with it.

So no, it's not queerbaiting, it's just actors voicing their opinion - basically the same as the Wedneday situation. The actresses for Wednesday and Enid ship their characters, but Netflix never gave any indication that these two would be a thing, and the internet only cried QUEERBAITING because people can't accept that sometimes the goth girl and the girly girl don't kiss because none of the writers even thought about making them gay.

And before someone inevitably goes "Oh but one/both of them are straight/don't want to discuss their own sexualities - are they queerbaiting when showing excitment at the idea of their characters hooking up?"

1 - Real people can't queerbait because their sexuality is a personal matter, not a product meant for other people to consume.

2 - If Netflix does want to make Zukka a thing (and I've seen nothing to sugest that they do) and starts promoting it, it's the CHARACTERS that would have to be gay, not the actors. I'm pretty sure Zuko's actor can't create/control flames at the palm of his hand, but that doesn't mean he's lying to people, he's just an actor acting. Even if and Sokka's actor have to play a gay couple at some point, it won't be queerbaiting for them to do so and even be excited for it/thinks it makes sense for their characters, regardless of what sexuality they are in real life, because the actors are not their characters they're just people doing a job.

[bananafishdepression]

Sometimes I see people complaining about Ash and Eiji, saying how they are the definition of queerbait just because they don't do what you would normally expect a mlm couple to do

The thing about mlm ships is that they're too sexualised

You usually know the endgame when you see two boys having unexplainable sexual tension and it doesn't even take long to get them there, usualy by third chapter

Now, there are some good anime that potray healthy and normal mlm relationships, but people now mostly just read BL manhwa where relationships are mostly toxic or done for fanservice

And then fans like that decide to watch Banana Fish because someone told them they have a cute relationship (they usually ignore TWs but whatever) and decide to shit over them because they didn't even have a proper kiss like???

Do they need to fuck on screen to prove their love

Sometimes we forget that most of BL boys are young and sure, boys IRL do think about sex a lot but they also have feelings and want to love which most media doesn't show

Ash had trauma that could have been healed (maybe not comepletely, but enough to at least try and live a normal life) if he decided to live, but he didn't, and we can't just know what he would've done with Eiji if he went to Japan

Eiji is sweet and shy, we don't see much from his perspective, and we also don't really know much about him and why he was interested in Ash from the very beginning, you could describe it him being mysterious or it's just author's laziness lol (motives might be better explained in the manga where Eiji is a little more realistic to real boys)

And then you see those two just enjoying each other's presence and say YEAH THATS QUEERBAIT

???

When did it become unusual for two people to just enjoy having each other, it's not like you and your partner have this akward sexual tension moment every single second of your time lmao.

[canichangemyblogname]

@trans-buckleyy (this is my main), I got into watching 911 ~September 2022 and looking back through some of my old message/posts about it I was talking about how the gifs I'd seen on tumblr made me think buddie were together. So yeah I definitely got 'baited'/misled by the fans (I didn't start watching for buddie specifically, they just came up on my dash the most) - I commented at the time that a lot of the posts on tumblr about 911 felt like they were only through the lens of buddie shippers so I can see how so many people were misled, fortunately for me the illusion shattered as soon as I actually started watching the show. Though there's been a massive shift in attitude, when I first joined the fandom most people were happy shipping buddie and not believing it would ever become canon, now it seems like everyone has convinced themselves it will. Imo they're kind of setting themselves up for disappointment.

I’m sure I’ve said this before on my blog: capitalism combined with the white supremacist suppression, homogenization, or sterilization of cultures & traditions leads people to make consumption and products part of their identity. Fiction and fandom fill a need to belong that often replace real support systems and community (this is why so many in fandom feel lonely). Rather than a hobby, fandom is part of some people’s identity. So, pushback against popular fan interpretations— or fanon— can feel like a personal attack.

It seems to me that the blogs that just do fandom things to do fandom things—like shipping, that are happy to delineate between canon and fanon, and that understand that fanon is fanon and will likely never go canon are also the same blogs that love things like “rare-pairs” and “multi-shipping.” They seem to approach it from a “it’s never that serious” mentality and really just seem to want to have fun with it. It’s a hobby, not part of how they define themselves. Hobbies and interests are welcome to change, whereas people see identity as fixed and deterministic (it’s not, but that’s a whole other discussion).

There’s been a massive shift in attitude because the landscape has changed. Many of the most hard-core fans have staked their group belonging and (fandom) worldview around buddie. It was *the* singular 9-1-1 fanon relationship (the rest are all canon). It brought them together with people, people who they now see celebrating more on-screen queer representation. They feel spurned. Videos are surfacing of some of the most hard-core sobbing over Buck being confirmed as bi, but not getting buddie. They're telling their audience/followers that if buddie never goes canon, their quality of life will decrease, and they’re repeating many of the same things you (and many other fans) mention: they were led to believe this was a done deal, a foregone conclusion. How does one admit they’re likely wrong about “endgame” when they’ve spent the better part of 6 years supporting this and believing in it? They’re having far more difficulty accepting this than you did. Unlike you, actually watching the show did not set their expectations for what canon will likely be.

I also think there has been a massive shift in the way fandoms approach shipping since the end of Supernatural. A good chunk of the SPN fandom simply stopped watching the show, but continued creating for it. The fandom still dominates on fan-driven sites despite the show now being off-air for 4 years. Many SPN fans had largely given up on canon, preferring fanon, and admitted as such. Until “Destiel” went “canon.” (It didn’t, not really and not technically.) People shifted to this idea that they— the fans— could pressure networks and producers to canonize their ship (they can’t) or make decisions the fandom, a very niche part of an audience, would prefer (they can't). After Buck was confirmed bi, some of the most popular takes were, “This is revolutionary! Just 4 years ago, Supernatural was queerbaiting us all to superhell, and now we have 9-1-1 making a character bi 7 seasons in."

Ultimately, this idea they can pressure shows into making fanon a reality reveals that they have no concept of how television shows are made and produced or how decisions are made at the production and network levels. They are not going to persuade a network plus every writer, every producer, and every showrunner involved to agree to do what they want. But we still see fans in fandom believe they can get all these people to make decisions for the sake of fandom. Just look at the Our Flag Means Death fandom and their billboard fiascos.

Because buddie is part of how this subset of 9-1-1 fans define their sense of belonging, if Buck is in a relationship with anyone other than Eddie, this threatens their community and their relationship with the media itself. Tommy is to these 9-1-1 fans what Eddie was to Buck in 02x01: competition. This is why this same group treated the actresses who played former love interests like shit, too, including death threats and attempts to doxx or "cancel" them. Everything that challenges their (fandom) worldview must be removed. They can't and won't get the network to budge, so maybe they can try to get the actors themselves to quit or the producers to budge. After all, they have "direct" access to these individuals (they don't).

This all seems fantastical just writing about it. The logic doesn't logic, but logic isn't going to logic when social media creates parasocial relationships. Social media makes it seem like we plebians are closer to the patrician class because of how we're exposed to personal aspects of their lives. Repeated exposure to a media persona causes a media user to develop illusions of intimacy, friendship, and identification, and the more prevalent social media is in the media user's life, the more parasocial the online relationship becomes. So if your belonging and part of your sense-of-self identify with being a buddie shipper, then so, too, does the media persona, leading to people like Oliver Stark or Tim Minear being "number one buddie defenders" (they don’t care, y'all, I promise).

Now, add to this the way that m/m shipping has been constructed as inherently subversive (despite the reductive and sometimes regressive tropes that slash-fic uses) and as a form of activism, and you now have people not just identifying with shipping and staking their well-being on a ship, but also believing it is a morally righteous cause to campaign for. To them, they're fighting for representation and the expansion of queer stories. So, when the network and show expand queer representation without them or their ship, they're confronted with the reality that what they're doing doesn't do a damn bit of help. They're forced to ask themselves if their feverish promotion of and support for this ship may not have been about representation. I've seen some of them conclude that 1.) being forced to look critically at shipping is just misogyny because the majority of people in these fandom spaces are women, 2.) they're a queer woman, so, of course, it was about representation, they support and care about queer men and are an m/m ally (yet reblog posts about shooting us if we flirt with men in ways they don't like with the excuse "I'm a woman, I'm allowed to hate men"), 3.) actually, the buddie ship is "superior" representation because it is culturally diverse because Eddie's Latino (yea tokenization!!).

This all plays a large part in why they aren't taking it well when called out for homophobia and the xenophobic hypersexualization of Latino men because, to them, shipping culturally diverse m/m relationships is inherently "progressive" and "subversive" (again, despite the reductive and regressive tropes they use in their writing). They don't need to look critically at what they're saying or how they're hurting marginalized men because they believe they are putting moral pressure on the networks to be more progressive or subversive. Meanwhile, they're drawing rhetoric and ideas from existing queerphobic worldviews and legal structures (like echoing the rhetoric similar to gay panic, a US legal strategy to excuse crimes such as murder and assault on the grounds that the victim being queer led the perp to violence - a.k.a shooting a man for the way he flirted with another man) to tear down canon queer representation, just as they previously used misogynistic tropes to tear down Ana or Taylor or Ali or Marisol.

TL;DR— Many factors have contributed to the wide meltdown and "fandom schism" we've witnessed, not just the fact that some people explicitly started watching for buddie and have skipped whole swaths of the show to fit a "buddie interpretation."

[ilovedthestars]

and also just. the way ambiguity in relationships is assumed to be romantic, too. see, i wrote that whole post a while back about how I loved ambiguous fictional relationships, with deep devotion but no clear label as to the type of relationship. i called it love as in significance--that's where my tag comes from. love as in being important to someone, in whatever form that takes.

and what I said then about how this applies to romance still applies--when I'm reading about a fictional romance, I'll be much more engaged with one that feels built on that foundation of significance than one that isn't. flirting, the trappings of modern courtship, those feel empty to me without the feeling that these characters already matter to each other. (this is why in real life I'm so perplexed by things like dating apps, or people who actively seek out romance with strangers--I just personally can't fathom the idea of wanting that kind of closeness with someone you don't already know and care for.)

but in regards to ambiguity....I feel like I've been burned a little. I loved ambiguity because it meant you could take many things away from it. other people could see romance, but I could see the kind of deeply devoted platonic relationship that, let's be honest, is incredibly rare in fiction. but I'm starting to feel frustrated by the way ambiguity is assumed to be romance, without an explicit statement that it's not. (I've joked about the obligatory "no hetero" moments that have to be inserted into the start of a piece of media that has a male and a female protagonist with any kind of relationship other than romance--the "not with those lips" moment in the D&D movie, for example. It's funny, and i appreciate it being made very clear, but it's kind of sad that it has to be.)

and...okay, there's an elephant in the room that i really should acknowledge. I was talking about it in that first post, but I made a point of never mentioning it, although i'm sure plenty of people guessed.

I haven't watched Good Omens season two. I'm not sure if I'm ever going to. When I first wrote about my love for ambiguous relationships back in February of 2023, Aziraphale and Crowley were at the top of my list. When I wrote about how ambiguity left room for anyone to see themselves represented, and how i wished that a little more space was left for aro voices, I was talking about them. I was frustrated by people who saw that ambiguity as "queerbaiting"--didn't they see that the story was already queer, that Aziraphale and Crowley cared so deeply for each other, and whether they kissed or not wouldn't change anything?

But they did kiss. And it did change something. I don't feel like there's a place left for me anymore. And there's social pressure to celebrate, to be happy for another canon queer love story on TV, and god I'd love to celebrate that, but I can't help but feel a little betrayed by a story that I thought would leave space for me.

(and yes, a kiss doesn't have to mean romance--but in this, in hollywood, it's assumed to. the creators and the audience both understand it as such, unless someone stops to say no, we're friends who kiss each other the mouth, we're subverting your expectations. because the expectations are inescapable.)

I've been trying to give myself the space to feel upset about this. To remember that aro stories are queer stories too. And I think I'm raising my standards. I'll take ambiguity--I'll take any carved-out space I can find. But I'm not sure I trust it anymore. I want explicitly platonic relationships with the level of love and devotion and care usually reserved for romance. I want to read and watch and listen to stories about people who are significant to each other without romance even being in the picture. I want love that isn't synonymous with romance. I'm going to stop feeling like I have to settle for anything less.

[sparkcentralis]

hii sending u an ask so u can talk about branzycraft outside of that minecraft death post's tags if u would like 👀?

Anon you are a godsend. Ok. Listen. Minecraft death mechanics are one of the most Mechanics of all time in terms of character exploration. Here's what i want you to consider: Branzycraft is in the extreme other axis that of not caring for death at all and even encouraging it. His death means nothing! He doesn't fear dying, or the implications, or the pain, or the thought of it. What he is scared of is the after, the consequences that bites him in the ass, or a setback to a plan he has in motion, and many more. Continue below read more.

See echocraft. Branzy proclaims in his powder snow maze video: the gift for the winner of my maze is a chance at killing me! Isn't that fun? Surely you want to play my games and my traps if at the end you get to kill the one behind it all! And it works! He always offers something for incentive, for people to play his games and his schemes, and his life is simply just one of those incentives he's not above offering. After all, its just for fun! It's worth it to die if it means people have fun with his contraptions! In fact, isn't it thrilling? Having the knowledge that if any of these people pass, you'll be killed? How exciting, playing with his own life like he does to others! The danger is the entertainment, and he can't always get so lucky. But death doesn't matter now, does it? He'll just come back, all peachy, and then begins his next quest on amusing himself somehow.

Which brings us to lifesteal. The thing is, in SMPs, Branzy does not like dying when he did not plan for it somehow. He'd rather not die? Like, it would be a pretty big inconvenience, isn't it? Especially in lifesteal where your hearts literally Gets Stolen Away from you (or just. Extinguish away in the case of non-player deaths). Like. Its a pain! But he does not fear death like other people do, because he doesn't exactly fear death at all, he just finds it real annoying. He likes things going to plan, even though it rarely does, but this is One thing he can make sure Does Not Happen. Do you Get me.

In My view of Branzycraft, he's a bit of a lunatic that enjoys the thrill of danger, playing with lives both his and others. Why do you think he is so attracted to Clownpierce out of everyone else? He's deadly! And he keeps him on his toes that every day is never so dull! Eventually this morphs into a more tame feeling of [QUEERBAITING], but Branzy is a showman first and foremost, and I like thinking that the personalities he exhibits of video is showmanship. It makes him interesting. Branzycraft, traitor and coward, possibly something more? Powerful somehow because of his lack of fear surrounded by those way better at fighting than he is as he leans to trickery and traps to get the better of them in his own way? Everybody likes branzycraft! He sucks at fighting, you wouldn't fight him would you? Hes so easy to kill! So step into this death trap and you'll get yourself a heart!

Of Course though. This is just one interpretation of a character played by a Minecraft Youtuber that can also be interpreted in a different hundred ways..... Its what makes character analysis interesting! I like the idea of "Branzy who chases the thrill of danger and death while trying miserably to avoid unnecessary risks posed by dying" because its fun, comical, and it poses interesting thoughts and scenarios: what if he plans to die? The plan involves him Dying, would he take it? (He would. See: obsidian box) How far does his tolerance of death stretches? Truly the characters of Minecraft Youtubers are an interesting species.....

[but-a-humble-goon]

for, https://www.tumblr.com/but-a-humble-goon/754670294342500352/name-a-character-from-one-of-my-fandoms-and-ill?source=share

Cassandra Cain, naturally.

If you already got Cassandra then I'll take a wild swing and go for Emerald Sustrai.

I ain't got Cassandra yet funnily enough. Cassandra Cain Three personal headcanon facts about them -Even after she learns to talk she's still trying to figure out what's going on via inference in 90% of social situations. Words are challenging and not the kind of challenging she likes. -Cass hates stakeouts more than anything in the world. She is a creature of pure motion, she must be free. It takes all of her considerable will and discipline to sit still for longer than an hour or so and it feels like actual torture. -She gets sincerely very emotional listening to Evanescence. She's got no idea about their pop culture context, she just feels very seen by their music. Like she senses a spiritual kinship. A reason they suck Basically everything about how she treated Stephanie in Batgirl 2000. Didn't trust her, didn't respect her, tried very hard to drive her away, completely took their friendship for granted, was generally insufferable and mean to her constantly, took Bruce's side against her and pushed her into getting herself killed. A reason they are great Cassandra Cain is genuinely the kindest soul in the entire DC universe. She is the very essence of empathy and compassion. She would take on the entire world to fight for the life of even the worst person who ever lived. I've said it before but no matter how much the universe tries to hammer the message into her that you can't save them all her response will always be "watch me." A reason I relate to them She's terrible with her emotions and even worse at social interaction and everybody around her misconstrues this as her being emotionless or just projects their own biases onto her. People talk about her like she isn't even there and even though she acts like it doesn't sting, it does. She feels like everybody around her got given a manual on how to be human properly except her. Top tier OTP I don't really ship Cass with anyone. If she's gonna end up with someone at this point it should definitely be Stephanie to give the middle finger to all of the queerbait between the two over the years. Five things that never happened to the character that I believe should have happened. -We should have actually gotten to see her seeing Steph alive again for the first time after War Games and gotten all the devastating emotional fallout of that. -they really should have done a Cass vs Jason storyline at this point, it's kinda ridiculous that they haven't. -Batgirl 2000 should have had a real ending and not just sort of fizzled out the way it did. -Bruce really does need to sort his fucking life out and admit he's basically been feeding her self-abuse, ruining her life and failing her as a father and mentor. -SHE NEEDS A GODDAMN SOLO BOOK AGAIN Five people that the character never fell in love with and why -Conner Kent, much as I think there's probably still some not entirely platonic feelings between them, I don't think anything could ever really come of it, that's why I like where they left off. -Tai'Darshan, because that whole plotline was stupid. -Rose Wilson. If you were to ask Cass she'd tell you it's because Rose is a punk ass bitch. -Zatanna. I know it's like the joke that every bat is at least a little bit in love with Z but Cass could never be with somebody cooler than she is. -Any of her brothers, no matter what people seem to think, because that's disgusting.

[la-pheacienne]

Rhaenicent truly gets the golden prize of queerbaiting. If you want to turn two women who hate each other into an unfulfilled love story, fine. Do it goddammit. But are you actually gonna do it? Do you have the guts to back this up in the narrative? If not, it comes across as a half-ass attempt at novelty. Where is Alicent's love for Rhaenyra, the very core of the show (!), in that episode? What, because she prayed for her son? But she doesn't need to be in love with her to pray for her son. Her two-faced pious book counterpart could have easily done exactly the same thing without being in love with Rhaenyra (book!Alicent was actually against Lucery's murder) and imagine how cool it would have been to have book!Alicent, this cold, calculating bitch, still keeping up with her cognitive dissonance and praying for Rhaenyra's dead child like a real psycho, as if she doesn't want that woman and her bastards dead since she was a little girl. You can't deny, this would have been hotter. But oh well. Also a fine specimen of tell not show, "Alicent holds love for Rhaenyra" says Aemond, right, but where? That's why she's fucking Criston every day while not showing one single emotion? Because she's heartbroken for her one true love losing her child?

Rhaenicent may have seemed hot to the writers, but the execution failed. A shift as major as this needs a very solid basis and narrative importance. It needs to hold actual weight in the plot. You can't have characters casually mentioning it whenever it suits the script and then forgetting it 5 seconds later. You can't have Alicent being terrified about the safety of her kids and herself and wanting to take revenge against that family for what she's been through and then "oh by the way she's in love with Rhaenyra bye" that is NOT how this works. The problem is, of course, that with so much going on Rhaenicent just cannot work. Because of logistics. There is literally no place for love and solidarity between those two women in this specific narrative with the stakes so high, with their families and their children involved, you can kick and scream and whine about it but the fact remains. As I've always said, the only way Rhaenicent could work is as a villain origin story for Alicent. Let Alicent hate Rhaenyra's guts out of sheer romantic jealousy, let her be blinded by rage where once there had been only love. Now that holds actual weight in the narrative. That is hot. That gives Alicent a clear purpose, a clear drive. Alicent now is just a lifeless, boneless, odorless shadow, and I say this in the most unbiased way possible. She truly is just a spectator of her life. The drama unwinds around her and she just... nothing. Now we all know people like that in real life. However, in fiction, a character needs to have a purpose. They need a drive, they need an inner logic. They need to do something, they need to strive for something. You can't introduce a character merely for representation. "It is important to show a woman dealing with lack of agency" right but "dealing with lack of agency" is not a character arc. How is she dealing with her lack of agency, what the fuck does she do with that? She's a character, not a concept.

It's a no for me, it will always be a no and it truly and irrevocably ruined this adaptation.

[twig-tea]

What's Going On with Seng and Freen

I don't like to follow too much of the fandom drama, but I had to mention what's going on re: Seng and Freen, two QL industry artists.

Seng is a BL actor who has been in Secret Crush on You, Y Destiny, and War of Y, all partnered with Billy Patchanon. Seng was originally with Idolfactory but left on January 2023 when his contract expired.

Freen is a GL actor who has been in Secret Crush on You and GAP the Series both partnered with Becky.

The FreenBecky ship is particularly strong and this ship has been really active promoting and doing fanmeets since GAP aired.

Last week Idolfactory posted a notice that the privacy of one of their artists, Freen, had been violated and that they were taking legal action.

A video was posted a few days ago (no I'm not going to link it) taken through a window from a distance, showing Seng and Freen kissing. Since then, both Freen and Seng have come forward to say that yes, it is them in the video, that someone followed and recorded them without their permission, and they apologize to their fans.

I...just cannot handle the way people are talking about this on Twitter [still calling it that]. Thank goodness for this place, honestly.

Listen, feel however you want to feel about your ship being real, but don't shame a victim of stalking, harassment, and attempted extortion for having a relationship that isn't the one you hoped they had in their real, private lives.

No matter how much money someone makes from performing a relationship with someone else in a ship, they don't owe you their personhood. They are still allowed to be who they are and love who they love on their downtime.

Gatekeeping who can and cannot act in queer media does nothing but force people out of the closet (potentially threatening their life, depending on their circumstances) and take away peoples' fundamental right to decide who they share parts of themselves to and when. [Note if someone is in a position of power enforcing homophobic legislation or culture and they are outed that is different because it's about the hypocrisy of their politics and the prevention of further damage to other queer people]

Insisting that people who are acting as part of their job have been lying to you by not being the people they are pretending to be for money does nothing but explain that you don't understand the meaning of the words acting or job. If you don't like that shipping culture feels real when it isn't, then don't pay attention to it.

Leaving here the note from one of the authors of War of Y (which if you haven't seen it includes a plot in which another shipped Idolfactory couple, Tohru and First, play characters who are in a ship but one sleeps with a costar which potentially ruins both of their careers when it gets leaked to the press... it's all a bit wildly accurate tbh)

[I know this rant is not for the people here who are going to see it but I had to yell it somewhere, sorry tumblr buds]

Editing to add: OMG I can't believe I forgot that I would have to say this, but also bisexuality and pansexuality exist, just because someone kisses someone of a different gender does not mean they also never have and never will enjoy kissing someone of the same gender, and either way it is literally none of your business and you cannot queerbait people in real life. That is Not A Thing. Please stop saying it.

If you want the industry to be better for out queer actors, contribute to a safer environment for queer actors to be out by supporting out queer actors, so that more actors can feel safe and have stable careers while out.