#My problematic ships are in other fandoms

[flower-boi16]

https://www.tumblr.com/flower-boi16/774678304341016576/i-thought-you-already-learnt-in-literacy-class

yeah, the issue isn't wanting the show to have a moral spelled out at the end or even that stol1tz is problematic.

the issue is that the show outright romanticizes its problematic ship - it isn't trying to be some character study of two messed up people without wanting the audience to come to any conclusions. It's blatantly obvious that the show is designed to make the audience think two things:

one: Stolas is only a tiny bit not really flawed and is basically the innocent wronged party in the relationship breakdown and 99% of the problems were caused by Blitzo and his insecurities and selfishness

and two: they actually want us to root for Stol1tz to work out.

and anyone who points out that they have no chemistry or that how Stolas started and continued the whole affair is textbook sexual extortion (something which the show has completely swept under the rug and refused to address) somehow gets accused of being a puritan or having low media literacy? even though critics are ones actually paying attention to the details that suggest stol1tz is a car crash waiting to happen and Stolas has been nothing but babied through the entirety of s2?? make it make sense

absolutely nothing about their duet in mastermind reads ironic, it's all terribly trite and sincere in expecting the audience to think their romance is tragic and moving. there's no reason to think the show is all that interested in exploring the dynamics of a messy relationship because the show outright refuses to meaningfully discuss the worst and messiest part of it except in passing i.e. the transactional deal. ffs, they spent all of apology tour calling Blitzo and Stolas "exes" when they never even dated. the show is outright rewriting its own history solely to avoid talking about the messy stuff because it would make Stolas look bad

also it's incredibly rich that people keep pulling out the "you just want a morality tale where you're told what to think, and that's bad writing!" card when this is literally what apology tour was. the show was outright screaming at the viewer to think that Stolas is the victim, that Blitzo is way worse than s1 had built him up to be and that Blitzo needed to apologize. the whole thing is structured around the moral of Blitzo needing to apologize and Verosika outright saying the point of the episode: "if you wanna change, say good for him (when he runs off to make out with someone else first chance he gets after claiming he loved you)"

I mean Blitzo basically says to the camera "the only reason I rejected Stolas was because the class difference made me insecure and I push away everyone who could care about me". it's incredibly blunt, garbage obvious storytelling

the writing isn't subtle at any other time (cough cough, Stella, cough) but suddenly when it comes fans asking why the writers aren't calling Stolas out for basically any of his shit suddenly the show is treated like some nuanced high art character drama where no one is allowed to openly discuss the sexual extortion shaped elephant in the room.

and it's blatantly not that. the closest helluva ever got to well done storytelling was in s1 and Viv flushed all that down the toilet the minute s2e1 happened

I still find it amazing how my post critisizing the fandom for not knowing what the actual critiques of the show are still holds up today. These are the kinds of fans that pretend that the highest amount of hard-hitting critique for Helluva and Hazbin comes from randos on tumblr when the critisicm these shows get extends far more than just tumblr. If anything, tumblr is less than a FRACTION of the people voicing their issues with the show.

And, if you actually payed attention to discourse surrounding the series on other platforms, mainly youtube....you would find people have far more nuanced critiques than "PROBLAMATIC = BAD!!!".

HELL, Sarcastic Chorus, one of the most popular Youtuers discussing the series, initially liked Stolitz BECAUSE of the problamatic elements, but he stopped carring for it because the show WASN'T ACTUALLY ADDRESSING THEM!!!!

But these fans focus more on trying to strawman critics rather than actually trying to meaningfully engauge with disscussion on the issues with the shows.

Because they can't handle people critisizing their favourite demon show.

[scentedluminarysoul]

No for real

Antis are harassing people, abusing, telling them to kill themselves, doxxing them, etc, over fictional characters

They are doing real harm, and a lot of it

It's not "silly childish fandom discourse"

I need to find that post where parents described that their child was literally, in the original meaning, groomed by antis online, and told to not trust their parents because of the "problematic age gap" (they were like 3 years apart)

This is not dumb silly online stuff. It's foes real harm

And really, this "I'm better than you and I'm an adult for not getting involved" us so arrogant and uninformed

I only put proship in my bio after witnessing how rancid antis can be. I used to shrug and just live by "ship and let ship", and thought that was the default. I never imagined people went so fucking far over fictional characters

I've seen antis liken fanfiction they don't like to literal war propaganda from the state. "Fiction influences reality". And I've seen queer disability advocates dragged down into believing that

It's truly disturbing

You all remember what happened when you handwaved away terfs as "just being some online idiots, who cares", right?

Antis are, as op said, fundamentalist puritans. They're conservatives of the worst kind. They think thought crimes are real. They think what someone likes in fiction is indicative of who they are as a person. They value pure thoughts above all, and don't actually care about how they treat others

Their opinion and worldview is the only correct one and they'll enforce it through threats and violence. They want to purge libraries and the internet of everything they deem "problematic"

And that is mainly sexual stuff

We can also add the layer of how the majority of people engaging in fandom and especially writing fanfiction are queer

Is it still "silly fandom discourse" to you?

Sooo so so sick and tired of the holier than thou "proship and antiship are both dumb" "I'm so over shipping discourse" "I'm a secret third thing (adult with a job)" circle jerk bullshit I keep seeing on this site

First of all, most of these people don't even see what's actually going on here. It doesn't stop at what fandom ships are good or bad.

And where do they get off thinking it's just some dumb internet tumblr drama? Do you know that people who exist online also exist in real life? And the ideas that they express or act on online (like wanting to censor fiction, thinking they're the authority on what can be written about, sending death and rape threats to people who write fiction in a way they don't like) also carry over into real life?

Real life where we're in a fucking puritan nightmare of a media literacy crisis. You can really look around you at the world we live in and think a thing like censorship is just an issue that exists in cyber space?

[honig-dachs]

there it is

[xdevilrushx]

It's just one clown take after another.

This might be the single dumbest and most hypocritical fandom I've ever wasted my time on.

[sunsetzer]

On one hand, I want a final fantasy 6 remake, because the game is criminally underrated and the amount of fan content (which is all absolutely fantastic btw) is Not Enough for my neurodivergent, hyperfixating brain.

On the other hand, that would inevitably encourage more people to join the fandom, which would be great, except it seems these days the bigger a fandom gets the more toxic it becomes, and I really like what we have going on over here in our little corner. We all just love the game and its characters and nobody fights about who should and shouldn't date who or who you shouldn't like because they're ~problematique~. Nobody's trying to make one ship morally better than another, nobody's calling anyone names or threatening to doxx people who don't agree with their opinions. It's so peaceful and I love that for us. We're just vibing. Moisturized. Unbothered. In our lane. Flourishing.

[andromeda3116]

*slithers in under the door*

a ship does not have to be morally pure, you don't need to defend it in terms of its moral superiority. it can just exist without needing to be more pure than another "problematic" one. kill the puritan preacher in your head. he will not protect you. he will only strangle you with a tighter and tighter noose as you beg him to bring you perfection.

*slithers back out through the cracks in the floor*

[utilitycaster]

Were people mad about Marion x Sean not happening? I know it was popular during episode 1 but I feel like by episode 2 most everyone saw the writing in the walls with Marion and Jean obviously being into each other.

A refreshingly small number, honestly! It was one or two people in the main tags and maybe one or two more who said obnoxious things in the tags of my posts. I used that as an example because it was fresh in my mind and because that was genuinely such a great line in a fantastic arc in a fantastic series that closing yourself off to it is a miserable prospect.

Here is the thing about writing on the walls: there is a level of shipping where people will openly ignore it, eg: literally everyone who claims Beau and Yasha "came out of nowhere"; basically anyone who focuses extensively on microexpressions because that frequently goes hand-in-hand with ignoring Character A and Character B kissing each other in favor of how Character C blinked a millisecond too rapidly in A's direction; etc.

This also, honestly, isn't limited to shipping, though that's the most common case where I see it. I think part of why Campaign 2 hate is so bitter at times is because there are genuinely many, many people who watched all 141 episodes and who loved almost everything in 140 of them and then hated that the finale did not bring back Molly or did not have the ship they thought was "supposed" to happen appear - I was there, and people who claim Campaign 2 sucked were there too watching along throughout the whole thing; they just definitely thought the couples would all break up and rearrange in episode 141 for no apparent reason.

That's really my larger point: I think there is a certain kind of person who tells themself how a story "should" end, whether it's a particular ship or a particular story beat, and becomes furious when the story - which never made that promise - fails to deliver. Not only did Candela pretty clearly signal that Marion and Jean were into each other, it also told us inherently within the story and in literally every out of character interview that this was pretty much guaranteed to not end remotely close to any sort of happily ever after. It's funny - earlier in campaign 3 there was a lot of flack towards some fans' (of which I was one) frustration with the story on the basis of narrative/pacing, and I still see the inane "must stories have conflict" argument pop up. But those same people who get mad at those who talk about inconsistent themes or characterization or awkward pacing are, more often than not, people whose assessment of a story rests entirely on the incredibly narrow "did I get the exact ships and plot elements I wanted out of this and was my blorbo the coolest guy ever all the time," rather than the broad and inclusive "did this story capably deliver on an interesting premise."

[minakoaiinos]

Lost my original post of this from the other day but I genuinely don't understand how Black Butler discourse ever shifted into the does Sebastian ~really~ like Ciel or is Ciel just dinner line of conversation that is pervasive as it is because Sebastian is the one that has absorbed his whole existence into Ciel's. Sebastian's face is what Ciel wants Sebastian's whole purpose is doing things for Ciel Sebastian's every hell of a butler yes my lord speech is about how he's Ciel's and Ciel is the one going around saying shit like whatever Sebastian is just my pawn 💅

[blorboresidue]

actually it's probably a good thing the tactics fandom is in the single digits cause if it were a big fandom I'd get so sick of harukan so fast. instead I get to be unhinged and obsessive over them exactly as if they were a niche ship, cause it's a closed ecosystem

[elizeshiro]

getting into fandom recently,,, by god is it scary!! lmao

(i don't mean this as hate to anyone/anything in particular i am just out n about exploring communities and By God it is terrifying someone come pick me up lmao)

[seiya-starsniper]

.

[milfbrainrot]

im so glad i cleared out so many of my old posts bc i remember listening to this podcast while still in Performative Fandom Mode and god that must've made me unbearable.

like i remember making a post about maxwell once bc she was my blorbo but also being like "oh no im a bad person for liking her, better preface this by saying she's a bad person so people don't think i excuse her actions!" and then someone got mad at me about it and i was so confused bc what do you mean im not supposed to do that on the callout post walk on eggshells website

[olberic]

just observed a fascinating phenomenon of someone drawing megastar fanart (and tagging it as such, i braved the view post button despite my blocked tag) and they had a banner under it saying proshippers dont interact. have i fundamentally misunderstood the state of online discourse that ppl engage in or was that person a new level of hypocritical

[notmoreflippingelves]

So apparently, there is a second Sofia the First spinoff in the works right now. And so while this is still admittedly hardly the ideal time for me to get unnaturally and unhealthy invested in the Ever Realm Cinematic Universe (and especially in Elena of Avalor) , it's also not hypothetically the worst time for me to get invested in it either.

[dickvinci]

i got into several arguments in my dreams last night.

[chushanye]

i recently remembered that svtfoe existed. and then remembered i was actively in the fandom for most of the shows run. and it just....completely left my memory. like i remembered being OBSSESED with it but the moment it ended its like my brain put it aside and i immediately forgot all about it. im shocked cause NOTHING like this has ever happened before. like ever