#IS LOUIS TRYING TO PROTECT DANIEL FROM ARMAND?!?!

[inthefaceofadaffodil]

AMC YOU BITCH GET BACK HERE

[hvnnigrvhm]

the tragedy of armand in dubai is the fact that he genuinely likes daniel. yes, there is a threat there, and he hates how good at digging daniel is (as every liar despises the truth), but despite it all, for some unknown to us reason, he has an outstanding amount of sympathy for a boy he tried to once kill. that’s why at the end he is getting outsmarted and beaten. it’s because once his emotions stepped in, he wasn’t as guarded anymore (should i quote, unaware of the plotting around him because he was in love?).

armand tortured daniel back in sf, thinking him unimportant. it was louis who saved him. and yet in dubai there is a weird shift of the dynamics. in dubai it’s louis who messes with daniel’ parkinson’s and armand is the one to stop him. someone who likes to chase his mortal victims and gets the thrill out of them begging, suddenly decided that this mortal didn’t deserve that kind of a treatment. it’s louis raiding daniel’s memories and armand trying to clear the air, thinking it have gone too far. it’s armand apologising to daniel after louis raided his mind, explaining to him that he was invited there as a guest, trying to maintain a hospitable atmosphere in the house. it’s armand taking care of his levodopa transfusion and it’s armand getting weirdly intense about the last dinner and dropping that mysterious sentence “i do hope you’ll join us”, as if he actually cared.

what conclusions might be there apart from the obvious? in san francisco he wouldn’t have cared if daniel died, that’s how inconsequential he was to him, and for some reason fifty years later armand is weirdly protective of him. he still stays in the shadows, and only shows his concern once there is a crisis on the horizon. armand likes him, and for someone who never wanted the interview to happen he is weirdly drawn to their conversations and wants to actually tell him things about himself. something once again he would have never done in san francisco. if that’s all not a proof that the dm happened in between those decades, then i don’t know what is.

[cbrownjc]

Hi there! I'm sorry if this feels super obtuse and it has been ages since I read the novels, BUT...

After this recent episode I was a little confused about what Armand had done to infuriate Louis and Daniel so much. If he simply wiped their memories so neither Louis or Daniel didn't remember everything that went down, that doesn't seem so awful, especially since what went down WAS awful. So I think I must have missed something substantial because I was distracted by my cat, or something. 😅

BTW I love your blog and all the fantastic insight you provide! I used to be ride or die with IWTV but haven't paid much attention to it in the last 15-20 years, so I'm finding it immensely helpful for getting back into the swing of things!

Hello!

So why Louis and Daniel are so angry at Armand isn't because Armand simply erased their memories. (And, to be clear, their memories weren't actually erased, but just clouded over and blocked). Armand rewrote them. Armand basically reprogrammed Daniel and Louis' minds after the OG interview, Louis' mind especially.

That was what that final scene was about, what it was demonstrating. The answer that Louis gave at the beginning of the episode, as to why Armand saved Daniel's life in 1973 was a word-for-word repeat of what Armand's own answer was at the end of the episode to that same question.

The answer wasn't something Louis truly felt wrt his own real feelings. It was something Armand put into Louis' mind to think and say about the incident after the events of it from Louis attacking Daniel on were blocked and clouded over.

As @virginiaisforvampires notes here, the way Louis speaks of Lestat in the OG interview vs the new interview is very telling wrt that reprogramming done. Yes, in the OG interview, Louis was talking down Lestat in spiteful ways, but it was all surface-level stuff. Just saying that the way Lestat spoke revealed how stupid he was and that he wasn't at all skilled when trying to play music.

That is all a far cry from the things Louis has said and spoken about in the Dubai interview about Lestat. Lestat's crimes, as they are being talked about in this second interview, are not just surface-level transgressions said to simply make Lestat angry and draw him out, as Louis was originally trying to do back in 1973. The crimes of Lestat laid out in the Dubai interview, in contrast, are very much there to justify the murder of Lestat.

Because without that justification?

Well, we see that starting when it comes to the false memory -- yes, false -- of Louis thinking Claudia couldn't burn Lestat. Louis thinking that -- that Claudia couldn't burn Lestat -- would take away Louis' guilt at having stopped Claudia from trying to burn Lestat if it was something they both couldn't do. Especially if the killing of Lestat had been justified.

But if there was no justification for killing Lestat? Then the reason Louis stopped Claudia from burning Lestat was because Louis knew that killing Lestat had been wrong. Louis knew it the night Claudia did it, which would be the real reason why he stopped her from burning him.

And because Lestat didn't burn, because he was still alive, that led to the events of the trial in Paris and what happened to Claudia there. And what is looking to be the show's version of the Merrick reveal about Claudia's true feelings wrt Louis. Which, in the book Merrick, the revelation of that is what sent Louis to try to destroy himself via sunlight exposure, as we saw him try to do back in 1973 -- which the cocaine and other drugs that were in Daniel's blood had Louis unable to either ignore anymore -- or lifted a veil that had been placed over his mind about it until then.

Do you see the cascade effect in all of this?

And look, maybe some will see what Armand has done here as not that awful, but Armand didn't do it just to try and protect Louis. That was very damn clear when he didn't relay Lestat's full "I love you" message to Louis after Louis' 1973 attempt to end his life. It's because part of Armand very much still wants to live with the illusion that he and Louis can be happy together, even after what happened in Paris and Armand's role in those events.

I've said before that Armand's flaw when it comes to love is that he will go way, way, WAY overboard to obtain or keep love. And this is all just, once again, him repeating that pattern. Armand rewrote Louis' memories of both Lestat and Claudia's actions all to try and assuage the true guilt and pain Louis has over everything that happened and Louis' own role (mostly due to his own inactions) in it all that has led to such suicidal guilt about it, but also because IMO Armand wishes to hide -- as much as he can -- his own role in everything that happened as well . . . and all of this so as to keep Louis by his side so that Louis doesn't leave him -- be it for Lestat, or even in death.

Armand isn't being altruistic in his reprogramming of Louis' mind and memories. Because really being so would have been not only telling Louis what Lestat was trying to relay to Louis back in 1973 but then probably having to let Louis go as well . . . let Louis go back to and be with Lestat, the person who Louis was trying to draw the attention of with that whole OG interview in the first place.

Honestly, I see the whole situation as kind of expanding on this line of Louis' in the book, as he and Armand are breaking up:

And when I came to Paris I thought you were powerful and beautiful and without regret, and I wanted that desperately. But you were a destroyer just as I was a destroyer, more ruthless and cunning even than I. You showed me the only thing that I could really hope to become, what depth of evil, what degree of coldness I would have to attain to end my pain. And I accepted that. And so that passion, that love you saw in me, was extinguished. And you see now simply a mirror of yourself.

With the rewriting/reprogramming of Louis' memories, this is very much what Armand has created with Louis in many ways -- a mirror of himself. The pieces of himself that Armand blocked and changed had Louis "knowing who he was" . . . but who that person is, isn't the real Louis. Just a reflection of the person who made those changes.

So yeah, that is where the anger is coming from. Moreso Louis than Daniel when it comes to the rewriting aspect of it all I'd say; Daniel is likely just angry that his mind was messed with in the first place. One thing you can say about Daniel is that he's brutally honest, even when it comes to his own foibles. He's the type who'd rather know all the horrible shit that happened to him, than not.

Anyway, I'm glad you like my blog and comments about the show, and I hope this answer explains some of it for you. 🙂

[cuntylouis]

It's an underdiscussed part of the show, maybe because it's so obvious, that ultimately this whole interview is happening because Daniel Molloy wanted to fuck that vampire. Like before the 1st season even started Eric Bogosian was already talking about Daniel feeling attracted to Louis, and that attraction is an essential part of their complicated history and relationship and is always underneath every other thought and feeling Daniel has about Louis.

Daniel's intellectual/journalistic interest in Louis is inseparable from his physical attraction to him. When they met in the 70s Daniel felt an instant pull towards Louis, and as he said he really wanted to interview him, but he was also quite obviously assuming they would sleep together. Decades later that pull is still so strong he's ready to throw everything else away to get some kind of closure. I think he's sort of embarrassed by his own emotions (especially when he seemingly hasn't come to terms with his sexuality) and that they still have so much power over him no matter how old and mature he is. He's so snarky and rude to Louis to protect himself, to hide his vulnerability and feel like he has some kind of control over the situation. It's something similar with Armand; whether Daniel and Armand have a history or not, Armand is an attractive, powerful man who managed to trick Daniel, so Daniel feels the need show that he's in control and that he's not afraid of or intrigued by Armand, even though he's both.

But this exterior started to crack at the same time Louis' own did. In the beginning Daniel tried to keep his distance (and he probably reminded himself 'these people serial killers' every time he found himself feeling sympathy towards vampires) but when Louis is now acting so vulnerable and strikingly human, doing things like openly crying when talking about his daughter and sincerely thanking Daniel for helping him, it's impossible for Daniel to not feel empathy for him. In the s2 premiere you can see he's genuinely sympathizing with Louis and not even always trying to hide it anymore. Although Daniel says he doesn't really care it's a blatant lie; he's personally invested in Louis' situation. He cares about finding out what's going on and he cares about Louis. He wants to solve this and he wants to help Louis. He still feels strongly attracted to him. Hell, he might even be a litte bit in love with him. Most people who meet Louis are.

In the first season Daniel often perceived Louis as his opponent, and in the s2 premiere he acts like Louis and Armand are both his opponents, but i think the situation will (based on what we've seen so far and promo/cast interviews) now probably pretty fast evolve into Daniel starting to think he and Louis are in the same team and Armand is their common enemy. We know Daniel is basically inserting himself between Louis and Armand's relationship and even the word love triangle has also been used. Armand and Daniel were famously a couple in the books and might end up together in the show too, but at least for now they're both focused on Louis. I wouldn't be surprised if Daniel starts to feel like he has to 'save' Louis from Armand - even though Louis probably doesn't want to be saved

[lizardkingeliot]

Fair warning this is going to be a mess and my brain is running on fumes so... bear with me lol.

I'm thinking about Louis not uttering Lestat's name for 23 years until he starts unloading on a stranger trying to convince himself Lestat was nothing to him. He wasn't in LOVE what are you TALKING about. He wasn't a great musician who wrote me love songs so infuriatingly perfect I swam the Mississippi to bite him like a cat and fuck him on the floor! Lestat wasn't that great at all I promise look at me, Daniel, do I look like the sort of guy who would lie about something like that!!!

I'm thinking about how what Louis was doing here wasn't actually that at all. Armand read him for filth because he's always known who the real love of Louis' life is, hasn't he? And Louis couldn't bear it anymore. He couldn't find Lestat (which begs the question WHY they were separated after Paris if Louis knows he isn't dead at this point but I guess the show will tell us that in the upcoming episodes lol), and this was going to be his way out. Had he been searching for him in secret? Did Armand know? I'm thinking prooooobably not but I guess we'll have to see what happens in Paris and in the final three episodes to be sure why Louis was so INSISTENT he didn't want to see Lestat even while very obviously trying to do just that. I assume it has to do with the events surrounding The Trial???? A desperate attempt to protect Lestat (wherever he may be) from Armand? Who knows!

I'm thinking about Louis insisting all he did was talk trash about Lestat and Armand immediately answering... that's not exactly how you talked about him to me. Yet Armand says Lestat's name hasn't been uttered in 23 years. Which would have been around 1950 in the timeline. Right after Paris. So clearly we're meant to understand Louis confided something about the true nature of his relationship with Lestat to Armand. Yet Louis insisted right there in that coffin that Lestat was his maker and nothing more. Again, I guess we'll just have to wait for the end of the season to see how we're meant to piece that whole thing together lol.

I'm thinking about the way the show let us hear Lestat's voice as he spoke to Louis through Armand. They let US hear Lestat insisting Armand tell Louis "I love you". Yet that's not something Louis could possibly remember because he didn't hear it. Which seems confusing but it's actually confirming this theory I've had brewing in my head that the show intentionally shows us things Louis isn't actually saying in the interview. Like making out with Dreamstat in the park. If you rewatch 2x03 there's no way Louis actually told Daniel and Armand about that. Or in this case, it's the show showing us something Louis can't possibly know himself.

And I'm thinking... why? The only real reason to do that is to drive home that what we're watching is in fact the Louis and Lestat love story at its core. I mean... think about it. Every iteration we've seen of Lestat this season has been so ROMANTIC. They were so in LOVE. All the stuff Louis tried his best to omit in season one is leaking in around the cracks like sunlight through the slats of a window shade and it's only a matter of time before that shade is opened...

Also. One more thing. Not to dump allll of this in one post but....... we finally got confirmation in this episode that Armand IS messing with Louis' head and erasing things and overwriting memories and I am foaming at the mouth waiting to see what else is in there Louis doesn't know about...

[yearnerspermit]

I’ve seen people bring up the fact that at the end of 2x04 Louis and Armand are fighting and then boom, start of 2x05 they’re the most sickly sweet in love we’ve seen them yet

I could be misremembering things. But uh. We haven’t heard anything about the removed diary pages since Louis asked to see them at the end of 2x01 and Armand agreed to gather them for him, have we?

Louis definitely hasn’t been given them because we know what’s in those pages, and we know it’s something Armand is trying to protect Louis from. But Louis was pretty insistent about it. And he hasn’t followed up on that at all since.

I’ve seen the interpretation that the beginning of 2x05 lovesick storytelling is just Louis and Armand putting up a united front to make up for fighting in front of Daniel before that. But the diary page discussion doesn’t happen in front of him. They have no reason to pretend in front of him for that particular thing.

Louis asked for the diary pages, Armand agreed. Louis was never given them. And we haven’t heard anything about it since.

I could see the performative unity interpretation of the 2x05 scene if it were in isolation. But both of these happen as they’re getting ready to sleep — getting ready to rest — and then the story abruptly forgets they ever happened. They parallel each other too closely for me to think the writers don’t want us to connect those

Armand, for as loving and protective as I know he’s trying to be, as well intentioned as I know he thinks he is, has rewritten the memory and mind and intentions and feelings of the love of his life multiple times in a matter of days

[dulacdat]

something about louis being severely traumatized by his fall in s1e5 even as he recalls it to Daniel a century later and how his house in Dubai is literally so high that they can feel the building sway from time to time.

(really trying not to be cynical with the show BUT)

it seems to fit well with how loumand's house is full of symbolism- with how louis is literally caged in the home, he doesn't have his coffin, is in one of the hottest countries in the world while being "sunchallenged" and can't really access his books that are high up to the ceilings. the house being really high is just another way to torment him imo.

"I protect louis even when he can't himself" (not verbatim) in the sense that armand has "justifications" for these choices. Dubai has privacy, the building provides safety, the tint protects you from the sun-you don't need a coffin,, etc.

(louis not using his coffin is also interesting to me. thought it was the trauma with s2e7 aftermath, but he had it in sanfran? although that could just be there out of necessity? will unpack later)

thinking about how triggering that might be; the feeling of falling every time you feel a shake or you hear a groan. (and with heightened senses)

[moonlit-void-to-the-far-unknown]

Armand does not know how to properly love or be loved by someone if it’s not him being a means of service to them. He is unable to fully understand what real companionship and love is.

He was molded by the grooming of Marius, who as we learned, doted on him and showed him ‘love’ but it was all a means for Marius to keep him as a sex object (of sorts I’m still reading Armands book but from my eyes, bro just straight up grooming a harem of boys) until he was turned. And then pimp him out to his friends. He was molded to be a thing for people. So that he could be ‘loved’

He was molded to hate humanity, and hate being what he was turned into by the children of darkness. He finds being a vampire a fate worse then death, he hates humanity until he meets Lestat.

Lestat comes in, fucks up all his ideals of what being a vampire is, destroyed the original coven, and Armand became obsessed with him, with serving him, even if it wasn’t really serving Lestat it was simply being…a means to an end for him. After Lestat learned what he could do as a vampire he fucked off. And Armand has been obsessed with him since because it’s how he was molded to love.

Then he meets Louis who comes in, no care for the new take on the laws, and lets Armand be a service, when he needs something, when he wants something, it becomes ‘Arun’ and ‘maître’ it becomes 70 years of trying to atone for the lies on lies he built and him trying to keep them all in place so Louis will stay with him. So he is needed.

Then Daniel comes in, and threatens it all, and succefully ruins the 77 year old lies Armand has built a shell with. The lies that kept Louis with him and while not happy, kept him sedated enough just thinking it was hurting who he thought killed Claudia.

Armand is molded by the need to be a service to others to be loved by others. He is incapable of thinking love is anything other then, being a service to someone. Be it him destroying everything and everyone in the way, burning his companions daughter alive, lying to make it seem he had no choice when he was the one who directed every second on that stage. It was still a fucked up ideal of ‘love’

“I love you so much I let you burn all things I had down, I let you kill my family of 200 years, I let you do as you please with others because I know they can not give you what I give you. Because you need me. And yes I played a big hand in killing your daughter, yes i lied over and over, but it’s forgiven, you said it was. Because you need me and I need you. I love you so much because without I am a shell, a void, no insides because you don’t tell me what I should be. How do I be of service to you. How do I fix it. How to I fix the decades of lies I used to protect me from you leaving.”

Armand built lie on lie on lie because he is a shell of a void of a boy once named Arun, who was taken by slavers, and sold to a brothel, to be used and molded into whatever a paying person wanted, a boy taken and renamed Amadeo, to be shaped into what Marius wanted, to be used and used again. To be taken by a cult, and used as a leader figure, to hate humanity, to be used as a teacher, to be used as a coven leader, to be used as an object of spite. Armand is a shell, a void. A hole. Because he never got to learn how to be anything else. In 514 years he never learned how to simply be Armand. To be whoever HE wants to be.

Because he doesn’t know what he wants to be.

[avalonia320]

IWTV Thoughts

I finally got to watch the finale last night and when I tell you I am SHOOK to my damn core. I don't know how to put it into words. I'm older than a lot of people here. I first read the Vampire Chronicles when I was 11; I found them in a box that belonged to my mother. When I tell you I devoured those books, re-read them over and over and over, fell in love with Lestat and New Orleans & Paris, cried over Claudia and Louis...I was totally besotted by the world Anne Rice created.

When the movie was announced when I was a teen (yes I'm that old), first I was so excited and then I was furious, as many of us Anne Rice devotees were, when Tom Cruise was cast as Lestat. I could not imagine an actor further away from how I had imagined Lestat. But still, I had to see it, and while it was still miles away from what I had wanted, I came away impressed with Tom Cruise. He still wasn't my Lestat, but he threw himself into the role in a way that made me believe he'd been waiting his whole life to let his inner Queen off the chain.

The movie itself...I had loved parts of it, but there was still so much more that I wanted. When the sequel came out (Queen of the Damned) I liked parts of that too and I actually enjoyed Stuart Townsend as Lestat. I hated most of it though, especially what they did with Marius (to this day I don't know what the hell that was about) but it was obvious at that point that I was never going to see the vampire world I was so enthralled with on the screen.

Then this series comes out. And while my expectations were low, I was still pretty excited. And then I watched it.

Holy fucking shitballs, you guys. I am normally so protective of my favorite books, resenting any little change unless it makes sense but everything they've done with this series, everything they've changed makes so much fucking sense. I don't want to try and break it down, I don't have the words. Lestat was always my big love in the books, but in this series, I've fallen in love with Louis and Claudia in a way I never imagined. I always loved their characters, don't get me wrong, but I never connected with them this way until now. And don't even get me started on Daniel, who I will admit I actively disliked in the books for the unforgivable crime of being boring. Um....that's a word I will never ever use in connect to Daniel Molloy ever ever ever again. And Armand and Madeleine and...I can't.

And Lestat. I loved him in the first season but in the second season, when he showed up with that long hair, I saw him for the first time like someone took the Lestat that has lived in my head since I was 11 years old and put him on the screen. He is EXACTLY how I imagined him. The way he looks, the way he talks, his emotion, his breakdowns, his unbelievable flair for the dramatic...this is HIM. I feel like I've been been unconsciously waiting decades for him to show up and for people to see him the way I saw him back then. I can't be the only old school fan that feels this way. It's just so surreal to see it so exact, it takes me right back to my childhood and the way I fell into stories then. The way you feel things when you're so young is something so hard to recapture but I feel like I'm right back there again on my bed, reading the books over and over again.

I'm just so grateful. To everyone involved with this series, the writers, the cast...I know i'm getting overly emotional but everything's been so shit lately and we've all needed an escape, a good one for once. I needed this so badly.

And I have to believe, wherever she is now, Anne Rice is so fucking proud.

[achllsun]

IWTV S2EP2 SPOILERS

trying to sell it as if armand is trying to EXCLUSIVELY protect louis from himself seems kinda unfair when he's out here comforting daniel after louis was just a little too mean to him.

the soft "she wanted to say yes" coming from the same guy that's acting like the only reason why he hasn't finished that old man yet is because of louis?

cause the way i see it if there was someone being "protected", or rather soothed, by armand in that specific instance, it was NOT louis.

[nalyra-dreaming]

COMMENTS on 2x04 - SPOILERS ahead, obviously^^

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

God that play is really…. and to see the joy just leave Claudia

And the foreshadowing with her soul leaving her body!!!!!! Holy shit.

Louis’ face mirroring the disillusionment.

Lol, Santiago getting a BJ while getting ready and bitching about the play. 💀

Armand and Louis in Dubai saying different things about that time…

Armand’s notes threw😬 me - and to call her lack of enjoyment of this play after 500 performances sabotage? Definitely a choice.

Ah, I see that is where that Santiago outfit comes in^^ - I would not have expected it to be Claudia there. I so feel for her there, it is so bitter. And Santiago having her back there and challenging Armand (and his relationship with Louis) damn. Also, Louis being so… IDK. Happy to ignore the warning signs now??? Ouch.

The coven going at each other, lol

That discussion “after”. And Louis’ “inner Lestat” commenting on it all - bitter

“Do you notice how hot the room gets”!!!!! FUCK

“I try to find the vulnerability in the object.” DAMN

The laughter. And Louis calling himself out there lmao.

They didn’t like Daniel changing track that’s for sure^^.

Santiago and Claudia 😭 - god I wished. And his warning her… damn.

Oh…. so THAT is where the “tender” comes in. Ouch again.

Madeleine and Claudia

The mimicry at the banquet. Ohhhhh it’s going to go SO BAD

But it’s nice to see that when Louis snaps… he snaps^^. Canon, baby, canon.

I felt so bad for him at the photography evaluation…

The fragility comment re Armand.

The photographs mixed in!!!! Holy shit. What is going on there - has been going on there????

“This is a Stein”. LOL Armand… “Probably Rashid”. Yeah, sure.

The body in the plastic!!!! Oh we are going full horror next episode, aren’t we.

Louis letting his “inner Lestat” criticize him. Aw sweetie. “I end up eating them”…. yeah.

The laughter again. And ”Lestat” mocking Armand as being “barely Balthasar”. 💀 Oh Louis. (I do feel bad for Armand. He wants love so badly.)

Madeleine’s story. One of many I would think. I … liked how they did it.

The Louvre.

“Vintage Lioncourt” - and then his “inner Lestat”!!! That expression, lol. And also the “ha” later… that is interesting.

In sync. “Okay” Argh.

HOLY SHIT! I KNEW THEY WOULD GO FULL IN AND DARK. AND THEY ARE 😵‍💫 OHHHH DAMN.

The coven abandoned by Magnus(??). And “Lestat” shaking his head.” Interesting.

I ALMOST thought we would get a Memnoch-type event!!!!! Damn, I wanted them to go there :))))

Armand threatening Claudia -.- . And letting her know. Talk about making things clear.

The thing about Santiago’s maker again...

Practicing the fire gift I see. Ah yisssss. *rubs hands*

“manipulative gremlin” LOOOOOLLLL LOUIS HOLY SHIT

God that scene with Claudia. Me and you, indeed.

“Bad decisions”. “Love makes you stupid”. “The wilderness that is our daughter”. 😭😭😭😭

Louis trying to say goodbye to Lestat there… heartbreaking. “An elicit couple out for the cheat”. Yeah. No double meaning at all. NONE. Their theme.The initials stitched in. Letting the rain pour down. Summoning Armand. “Mutiny brewing”. 😭 God Louis, why didn’t you just leave. “I used to be real good at running things”. Louis geeeeeeeeezzzzzz you are playing with FIRE. (Yes, I know, foreshadowing.)

And Santiago and the others using that moment to get the evidence they “need”. 💀

“You sure about that, Arun?” “Yes, Maitre.” Ohhhhh fuck. So fucking dangerous. “He is Louis’ creature indeed.” DAMN. Louis dammit you beeeeep Sorry, but honestly, that was… STUPID. You make your only protection look WEAK.

And them arguing in the bedroom. Louis probably having done that himself??!?!!!

Daniel using the time to go through the material - and remember. Oh the FORESHADOWING

And cut.

So in total:

Loved it, lots of very bitter foreshadowing once more. Loved all the little flashback hints. Knowing where the “tender” as a description for them comes from is… 😬. Louis trying to let Lestat go - I KNEW that would be a breakup scene, but I had guessed it would be another one that came later in the book^^, loved this change though. Unfortunately we already know it won’t quite work… Louis deciding to (try to) let Lestat go (which we know won’t work), and trying to take the “bull by its horns”… god. I mean. I get him. But that made my teeth hurt I clenched them so hard because that is literally… like, I said it above, but ARMAND calling HIM “maitre”? When the coven is already plotting? Oh boy. Not good in the long run. Not good.

So yeah. Loved it. So much in it!!!

And... my heart breaks for Armand.

__

And the EPISODE INSIDER. Spelling it out once more: (A gag order definitely dropped away^^)

“Lestat is just ruining Armand’s and Louis’ romantic evenings together.”

“He almost takes on the Lestat role in his relationship with Armand.” 😬

“Louis’ relationship is a response to his relationship with Lestat.” “Armand is a rebound. A rebound that lasts for 70 to 80 years.” 💀

“I think Louis knows he can get away with more.” “Like Armand is maybe a bit of a pushover. He realizes he can manipulate that relationship a little bit more.” (LOOOOOOL JACOB)

“Ghost Lestat [] is also like Louis’ doubts about Armand.” “He tries to accept Armand the way he is.”

“Armand will always see a little bit of Lestat in Louis.” “His paranoia is all encompassing.”(!!!!)

“It’s this really sad aspect of his life.” (indeed.)

And last, but not least:

“But it’s also seeing Louis slip faster with Armand than she had planned.”(!!)

HOLY SHIT. 💀

[nightcolorz]

Going to vent to you because this seems like a safe space for Armand sympathizers lol…

LIKE obviously Armand is doing all the wrongs, he didn't have to agree to literally any of this, blah blah etc etc BUT GIRL. if the guy i had been casually dating for two years because he had great benefits one day revealed to me that he was a child sex slave, the thing i would not do is be like 'wow, i guess what you're secretly saying is you want me to turn our relationship into an unnegotiated 24/7 TPE huh'.

And then when he came to me in a panic to tell me his life is falling apart and his employees are plotting to kill him and his protection isn't going to last much longer and i should flee the country for my own safety because he's the most vulnerable he's ever been since the time he was abducted by the crazy torture cult, the thing i absolutely would not do at that moment is surprise him by introducing that dynamic into our relationship completely out of nowhere and then order him to stay right here because I've got a totally cool plan to outmanipulate his enemies and I'll be his master now :)

And then I orchestrate a series of hot public encounters where i blur the lines of being angry and disgusted with him right up against ignoring the boundaries he sets and telling him to do whatever i want wherever i want. and because i never bothered to ask him, i don't know if he's genuinely into it or if it's because i've weaponised his trauma when he's feeling unstable, but like, he's the one who manipulated me into doing this anyway by telling me his sad backstory, so actually i'm the victim here??

AND THEN when I tell him my awesome idea of turning a nazi collaborator into a human eating monster machine and I want him to do it even though he is clearly revulsed by this idea from every angle, I'll berate him endlessly for refusing and be annoyed with him because by saying no he's making me turn her and that's not cool bro, and when he begs me not to do it, or at least not to tell him because it's breaking the rules and he's vulnerable to the machinations of the coven rn, I'll shut him up with my dom routine, and then tell him to come watch because he'll realize he does actually want it after he does it.

and when he asks me whether this is a genuine invitation in this moment or if I'm ordering him to do it and will be upset if he doesn't, I'll be so hurt and angry with him because wow, I can't believe after months of using my nonconsensual game of acting like his childhood master to get him to do things for me, he's acting like I'd use my nonconsensual game of pretending to be his childhood master against him, fuck you for trying to manipulate me right now you worthless piece of shit </3.

like even daniel, the most neutral and ethical judge of whether it's okay to make someone a vampire, can tell the only reason he'd set his one boundary at murdering and cursing another human being for eternity is because it's not hot or convenient, and not because of 500 years of witnessing the most insane vampire maker shenanigans known to Europe.

and then the entire audience claps because honestly i'm just trying so hard and my boyfriend just keeps fucking it all up for me and taking away my choices. literally what else could i have done in this situation :(

AHHHH ANON U ATE THIS UP ‼️🙏 and Yes this is absolutely THE safe place for Armand sympathizers!! I am the Armand sympathizer king and u have just brought me an Armand sympathizer gift lined with gold and jewels and placed it in front of my thrown and I’m knighting u Armand sympathizer general as I bow before u

ur so right and it’s actually so crazy to me that this isn’t a more popular take. it’s insane to me bcus im remembering how seriously this fandom was taking Claudia’s s1 sexual assault and how sensitively it was being discussed and now these same ppl r insisting that it’s unfair to “demonize” Louis for preforming non consensual bdsm with a csa victim without any safe word or prior discussion specifically because he told him about his csa and Louis found a chance to leverage control in this relationship. I saw someone insisting that it’s ridiculous to interpret Louis as sexually exploitative for being a pimp because he was a nice pimp and he was self aware about how pimping was bad and like ??? 😭😭 how do I even argue with that, that is just so absurd I’m lost for words. No guys he was one of the good pimps because he “didnt take advantage of his position” (😭⁉️) and he knew that it was wrong to sexually exploit vulnerable women and just chose to do it anyway so see it wasn’t that bad. And because Louis knows sexual abuse is wrong and chooses to do it anyway despite this he clearly isn’t mirroring the sexual abuse Armand experienced in his non consensual power play dynamic with him because uh yeah he wouldn’t do that ig 😭. It’s not like Louis canonically is capable of using sexual exploitation to manipulate people’s vulnerabilities for his stability and gain. Like guys book Louis also felt guilty for being a slave owner and knew it was wrong 😭😭 am I gonna hear “it’s unfair to say Louis being a slave owner was indicative of his negative traits cuz he felt bad about it” come out of ur mouths 😭⁉️cuz oh my god I hope not 😭 “Louis was only a pimp because pimping was his way of keeping his family afloat and asserting the masculine identity he felt obligated to preform for his safety” and he is doing the same thing with Armand guys obviously??!! He is taking advantage of armand’s history of sexual abuse to keep himself safe from vulnerability with the coven and to assert his masculine identity as a shield like 😭 and that doesn’t stop what he’s doing from being wrong like no fucking shit. He’s a complex character and his actions come from a place of fear and not straight forward evil, but that doesn’t mean u have to defend literal sexual abuse to analyze that and to enjoy Louis as ur favorite character 😭 I keep saying this but louis is a great character and there’s nothing wrong with him being ur fav but it is pretty mf weird to insist that everything he does is ok when things that he do include like, non consent 😭

I feel ur annoyances so hard anon, it’s driving me a lil crazy rn cuz in s2 ep6’s wake i have barely seen anyone discuss the Louis fucking Armand in the coffin scene like it was pretty shitty and abusive and not like, non complexly hot and fun and nothing else. Like, Armand has been panicking for a while and insisting to Louis that he is loosing respect from the coven and therefore his control and he’s in danger because of it, and Louis decides to stroll into Armand’s office unannounced, demand he strip for him immediately, demand again without any room for argument when Armand says he can’t, and then fuck Armand in view and ear shot of the whole coven in a degrading power assertion that Louis knows will put Armand in even more of a vulnerable and compromising position, like ?? I get it read the pages to me while I fuck u was pretty hot but omg can we talk about this with some nuance 😭⁉️ this is possibly the most overt instance of Louis not asking, *demanding* that Armand sexually submit and preform for him specifically as a grab to assert dominance over the coven. And Armand of course won’t say no, he’s been quite literally trained to believe that he has services that people r entitled to take from him at any time because he’s a product to be used. He also believes that saying no is not an option because submitting to the master will keep him safe, and Louis I think knows this to an extent and knows that taking advantage of this will help him stay afloat. I believe that this scene was a significant contributor to Armand deciding to betray Louis, because Louis’s actions *do* put him in danger with the coven and cause him to loose his position of power (Santiago mocking him for getting fucked by Louis cough cough). And Armand at this point is realizing, I can choose to be in a relationship with Louis that is causing my sense of stability and safety to fall apart, or I can choose to regain my position of power by forgoing Louis and getting to retain my safety. When u think about it like that it makes perfect sense for him to do that 😭 and I’m tired of seeing takes treating Armand like he’s a sneaky little snake and not a cornered animal

on the subject of Daniel because u mentioned him at the end there, oh my god it has pissed me off since the beginning how a lot of people act like Daniel is the embodiment of the neutral, unbiased correct word of god figure who is just telling the audience how it really is. Like?? No??? 😭😭 Daniel is a shitty journalist and a shitty person, he’s borderline racist and ignorant, he is not looking to expand his perspective or approach his subjects with any empathy or nuance because he decided going in that he hates them and they r bad, which is like?? Defeats the entire purpose of the affective journalism that he is trying to preform 😭😭 He is NOT the guy u should be getting ur takes from, he is a character like any other, he is not a source for correct analysis or meta or unfiltered truth.

But anyways lol, not to be personal and vulnerable in the gay vampire sex tv show post but it’s rlly disheartening for me to witness this blatant excusing and downplaying of a sexually abusive dynamic as someone who has experienced a very similar type of “but was it technicallyyy non consensual though..?” Sexual abuse. Like guys pls 😭🙏 I thought that “bdsm dynamic that merges with actual, genuine grabs for control and blurs the line between fun sex and real demands or anger” was like considered unambiguously bad? 😭 There asses do NOT have a safe word. In conclusion anon u r everything to me and everyone else um USE UR BRAIN🔥🔥🔥🔥

thank u sm for the ask OMGG ur so well spoken and correct and I enjoyed reading ur ask so so much

[brian-kinney-apologist]

I'm kind of confused and maybe it's because I'm a little slow or something? But I watched the episode and then I see people talking about how in love and yearning loustat are ( they're my faves) but where? Lestat, absolutely and his pleas to Armand show that yet again but what about Louis this episode screams madly in love and yearning for Lestat?

oh louis is absolutely down bad for lestat, trust me, in this essay I will......

1. louis (and armand lol) can't stop talking about lestat no matter the timeline, no matter what he (they) talks about it circle's back to lestat, louis is obsessed with him no matter what he tells himself

2. louis trashed lestat to young!daniel because he constantly walks through phases with lestat: louis regrets killing/leaving him, he gets depressed about it, remembers the good times, feels desperate to have lestat back, eventually gets mad at himself, lestat and the fact that they're no longer together, acts like lestat meant nothing to him, gets psychotic, does something drastic, cools down at some point, feels nothing, feels regret, the cycle continues

3. during the loumand coffin scene whan louis was in terrible pain, he once again was longing to get some comfort from lestat even if he wasn't sure it was real lestat and not armand fucking with him. he doesn't want armand to interact (even telepathically) with lestat, because he, louis, can't bare the idea that someone else can do that (reach lestat and actually talk to him) but not him, but also louis imo doesn't want them to interact because we just saw armand being vicious towards both louis and daniel and louis doesn't want lestat to go through the same in any shape or form. louis feels armand getting unstable again when lestat begs him to say to louis that he loves him and obviously louis doesn't hear that but he sees armand's face and so he feels the need to distract armand and reduces everything to the fact that lestat was just his maker and that's it. louis imo was trying to protect lestat in that scene

4. louis feels guilty for not saying I love you to lestat when they were together, we saw this theme continuing through the whole season (loumand and lesmand saying ily to each other, lestat constantly saying ily to louis) and thus I'm 100% sure louis will say ily to lestat later in the season while also crying screaming throwing up because of all the guilt he carries

so anon don't you worry, you just wait

[whatshehassaid]

“I LOVED HER.” “BUT SHE DIDN’T LOVE YOU. Not like he did. Not like I have”

That isn’t Armand saying Claudia didn’t love Louis. She did. What he’s saying is that Louis was so fucking focused on PINING for Lestats love, superimposing Lestat on Claudia AND Armand that Louis refused to accept love from them. Because he didn’t want Claudia. He didn’t want Armand. He wanted Lestat and he couldn’t have him (whether it be because Louis convinced himself Lestat was bad, or dead, or because Louis is in denial). He tries to make villains out of Armand and Claudia.

“Speaking of mistakes…”

“Vintage Lioncourt.” “I’m not Lestat, Louis.” “Okay….”

“Picked ANOTHER ONE over ME”

“It was NEVER ABOUT ME. Another chapter in the FUCKED UP ROMANCE OF YOU TWO”

“If you want to escape this cage of empathy I’ve trapped you in all you had to do was ask, Louis.”

“Imagine me without the burden of her”

Louis can’t face the fact that he was IMPLICIT in what happened to Claudia in Paris. She wants a companion in Madeline cause she’s not getting in from Louis.

I feel like we may be going the route of Armand and Claudia (probably immediately after the trial and before her death) bonding over their experiences. Not just to do with Louis and Lestat… but their childhoods… being raped… being used… being turned so young…

I’m not 100% on this but if they do include the head swap thing (which is still fucked up, I’m still upset at Armand for that) I feel like Armand will frame it or believe that he can save her if he can just give her a woman’s body to match her mind. And I feel like Claudia will jump at the chance. Again, not 100% with that and it’s STILL super fucked up.. but I think if that happens Armand (AT THE TIME) would believe he was helping her. Like how he “helps” his victims. How he was never helped as a human child and as a vampire. They relate to each other because they’ve never been someone’s first choice… and I think the moment Armand hears her say those words (“it was never about me. Another chapter in the fucked up story/romance of you two”) he’s gonna realize how much they really have in common and feel empathy for her.

It makes a lot of sense with how Armand’s character (especially in the books) is. He has a thing about consent (it’s a bit twisted because you could argue he assumes he knows what’s best for people… and acts accordingly thinking that he’s helping them) But he needs people to consent at least somehow. Even if it’s coerced.

That’s also why I believe after Paris… Louis initially agreed to have the memories of his role in Claudia’s death suppressed. He couldn’t handle the guilt that he didn’t care enough to save her. Armand just took it to the point of constantly suppressing the triggering memories. Plus on TOP of that I’m 100% sure Louis is schizophrenic and it’s causing blackouts.

Armand wasn’t really lying when he said that “I protect Louis from himself.” He WAS being honest. It’s in a fucked up way, but I believe it’s true.

And then with Daniel, that’s a whole other can of worms because I don’t think Armand wiped his memories right after San Fran. I’m starting to believe it wasn’t just Louis telling him to keep Daniel alive. The minute Daniel admits he finds Armand fascinating… and tells him “you can read minds right?” Alluding to the fact that he ISN’T LYING. Daniel is intrigued by Armand… and that immediately catches Armand’s attention. We’ve only seen up to Louis attacking Daniel from an unbiased POV (the tape recording). The rest is MOSTLY FROM LOUIS. Who had had memories taken whether by Armand or by the blackouts… and remember he has a habit of trying to make himself look good in Daniel’s eyes. He tries to convince himself constantly that he’s not a bad guy - but in reality…. He’s done some shitty things too. So it wouldn’t surprise me if some of that was also lies to Daniel. “You’re a liar Louis. Whether you know it or not.”

Something happened in those 4 days with Armand and Daniel that I’m not sure Louis realizes. He may come in and out of actual remembrance where he KNOWS Armand and Daniel fell in love… and he uses it against them both… and then goes back into not knowing what’s happening.

I have a feeling we’re getting the trial/claudia’s death/a reveal about the blackouts etc/the fire from ARMAND. Hence the “imagine me without the burden of her” line that Louis says. He would NEVER in a million years admit to saying that. Definitely not to Daniel.

The Merrick storyline plays into this here. Finding Claudia’s diaries… realizing that Louis really treated her badly and that she hates him for it. And Louis not being able to take it.

I also feel like Lestat and Armand have teamed up in Dubai without Louis or Daniel realizing it. They may be trying to help cure him with the help of Dr. Bhansali.

(Also, devils minion definitely happened in the past… you can just see it in the way Armand sometimes looks at Daniel - and in the books even though he was a stickler for rules… his only exception has ALWAYS been Daniel. He loves Louis, he wouldn’t have put up with any of this if he didn’t… but Daniel? Daniel is really the love of Armand’s life. And Lestat is Louis’. I need them boys to figure this shit out - and with the fact that Daniel wasn’t listed in the Talamasca victims folder? Even though he was attacked, held hostage and tormented… means he is probably in ANOTHER folder - *cough* ARMANDSPARAMOURS *cough* I hope they have Daniel find his name in there cause THAT is gonna be J U I C Y.)

[lizzyyylmaoooooool]

S2 EP2 SPOILERS

my running theory is that louis doesn’t know about devils minion (assuming it happened) because i saw that awkward glance away armand gave when he said he’d never hurt louis and never has. plus he was throwing daniel some funny looks while louis was bullying him, like he was def a mix of concerned but also trying to smooth the confrontation out so they could move on. he kinda seems to partly protect louis and protect their relationship by stopping daniel getting too deep but also trying to stop daniel from being too distressed as well?

[gh-0-stcup]

There is no way Armand turned Daniel "out of spite". If that is legitimately the way they're going with this, it would be a massive betrayal of the character. And completely unnecessary for pointless reasons - Armand is packed with flaws to explore and horrify audiences with. The character is almost entirely a collection of flaws and psychoses wrapped in the skin of a gorgeous boy.

Armand has approximately one (1) strong, genuine moral belief that remains consistent throughout the series. Turning somebody into a vampire should never be done. The very existence of vampires is a mistake, an aberration, something that never should have happened in the first place. It can only bring misery - to the world, to the vampire that is turned, and to the maker.

For 500 years of a deeply lonely, painful existence Armand holds strong on this. Daniel is the single exception. The pressure it takes for Armand to do this is immense. He falls in love, builds a life with this mortal. His love begs him and leaves him over and over and over because Armand will not do it.

Through vicious fights and Daniel's increasingly severe alcoholism, Armand holds strong. They have been broken up for six months at the start of their chapter because of this. Daniel left Armand and Armand let him go, because if the requirement for their relationship to continue is for Armand to turn Daniel - Armand will not do it.

Armand, whose main personality trait is toxic codependency, would rather be alone than turn his lover into a vampire.

When Armand turns Daniel, Akasha has awoken and vampires are dying en masse with little to no warning. Everybody is dying, nobody knows how or why or what they can do to protect themselves. Armand is terrified. Lestat's concert is about to happen and everybody seems to have a deep sense of doom about it.

Combined with this, Daniel's self destructive behaviours have forced a collision between Armand's two biggest feelings towards Daniel - I would rather die than watch you die. I would rather die than turn you.

Daniel's alcoholism has put him in a terrible state. He's unable to function to such a degree that he's been kicked out of his hotel, lost his passport and wallet, hasn't eaten in days, and is in the midst of a dangerous withdrawal. All he can figure out to do is to call out mentally for help from Armand.

So Armand, in the midst of a vampire apocalypse and preparing for a doomed concert, has presumably been hearing the desperate pleas of his lover and trying to find him for at least a full day. His lover who has been too out of it to say where he is, who has travelled across several countries in different continents that week.

And when Armand does find Daniel, Daniel is dying. Armand has to sit there, on a plane taking them to a concent he is likely to die at, and watch his lover's body slowly shut down. To make it even more intense, Daniel states that he will continue to throw away his life and destroy his body if Armand does not turn him. Daniel would rather die than live as a mortal.

Seeing Daniel die would be Hell for Armand. Turning Daniel would be Hell for Armand. So, Armand chooses the Hell that has them both in it together.

This was not a moment of insanity. It was twelve years of love and pain and Daniel fighting for it. Armand hated that he had to do this. Hated it before, during, and after. It ended up destroying their relationship for many years.

The dissolution of his relationship with Louis is simply not anywhere near the same level, imo. The blatant charade of a relationship that is openly devoid of love and is a tool of punishment for their mutual ex (and each other)? A partner Armand tried to kill back when their relationship was genuine? Spite for that ending is what motivates Armand to violate the moral he holds sacred?

No. No, I'm sorry but that is less believable than the vampire Sam holding Armand hostage.

What exactly does turning Daniel accomplish in this scenario? It doesn't hurt Daniel, he's happier than ever at the end. It doesn't hurt Louis, it gives him an immortal bestie to telepathically chat with. It's not even really self punishment - Armand isn't destroying the humanity of someone he loves and he doesn't have to watch the consequences.

Either the show's writing has taken a sudden, unexpected nosedive or something is intentionally funky here.