#I’m reading the Homeric epics

[navarice]

We’re talking about the golden trio’s dynamic but let’s talk about lore expansion!! Monsters sense where you are weakest and that depends on the monster. No demigod will be hit the same way, therefore this reflects on how the original mythic quests were undertaken in the first place: always a lesson, a test of faith, an individual undertaking facing your own flaws and destiny. The show is heavily reinforcing what we’ve been told the whole time. Quests are not simple fetching errands or a revels for glory. Quests, as far back as mythic Greece and the dawn of time, has always been about fighting one’s fate. So what does this mean for the gods? At least heroes have a purpose. Who are gods if not victims of their own design?

[unsightlymuse]

Homeric Odysseus and EPIC Odysseus are ultimately two very different breeds of chaotic human.

And as someone who is currently studying The Odyssey as part of their Classics course…I love both Odys in equal measure.

[notarealblogatall]

before you get into epic: the ithaca saga discourse, read the portion of the odyssey it is meant to be adapting. even if you’ve read it before, even if you know it by heart, even if you’re homer himself— read the actual portion, not sparknotes, not a chatGPT summary. it’s okay if you feel like you’re missing things at first or if the language of the poem is hard for you to pick up on, but keep trying.

remember that language is nuanced and translation is never completely capable of communicating all of the nuances of the original language, so, unless you can read ionian greek, there’s a great chance that you’ll be missing context.

a refresher cannot hurt you. it will help you have clearer and more productive discussions on where the ithaca saga succeeds or fails as an adaptation.

the perseus digital library has a free copy translated by a. t. murray here: https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0136

[transbutchblues]

maybe one day i will be able to go two hours without thinking about homer but it obviously won’t be today

[lyculuscaelus]

“πολλῶν δ᾽ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω…” (of many men he saw their cities and learned their mind…)

Ok you stop right there Homer. Tell me the cities you speak of.

Are they…

Ismarus: bro you just destroyed their city…and “learned their mind” on revenge. That surely counts doesn’t it

The land of the Lotus-eaters: bro you just sent three men to eat lotus, and you weren’t sightseeing at all cuz you didn’t even mention any city

The land of the Cyclopes: bro you went to a cave, not the city—if there was one, that is

Aeolia: bro that’s a god, and his children too

Telepylus: bro they’re giants

Aeaea: bro that’s a goddess, and no city

Hades: …

Thrinacia: bro they’re cattle and sheep, and still no city

Ogygia: bro that’s a goddess, and still no city

Scheria: yes definitely, the Phaeacians, and their Xenia

Home sweet home

Final count: 1, honestly

Ok so that’s a “lot” of cities to see…right? Enough for you to use the plural ἄστεα, right Homer?

That doesn’t compute.

Now seriously, what are the cities Homer was talking about? It can’t be the ones Odysseus had visited before the war (cuz “ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν:”—“after he sacked the sacred citadel of Troy”), and now that we’ve seen, they’re not really included in Odysseus’s return. So is it actually from other versions of Odysseus’s story, or are they nowhere to be found?

Unless…if you’re including his oar quest after his return:

“ἐπεὶ μάλα πολλὰ βροτῶν ἐπὶ ἄστε᾽ ἄνωγεν ἐλθεῖν…” (since he (Teiresias) has ordered me to go to quite a lot of cities of mortals…)

Problem solved. Homer was talking about something that’s not even in his epic at the very beginning of his epic. what a clickbait smh /lhj

Again, seriously, the part of Odysseus’s return is actually included in the next two lines: “πολλὰ δ᾽ ὅ γ᾽ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν κατὰ θυμόν, ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν καὶ νόστον ἑταίρων.” (at sea he endured many pains in his soul, striving to secure his life and the companions’ return.) (and of course he didn’t get the latter) and judging by the forms of the verbs (ἴδεν, ἔγνω, πάθεν are normal aorist verbs, while ἀρνύμενος is a participle), line 5 is the continuation of line 4 while line 3 and 4 are parallel to each other, each summarizing a journey that Odysseus undertook (line 3 is about Ody’s oar quest while line 4 and 5 about the Odyssey). This is a brilliant design.

And it might indicate that Odysseus’s second journey is of some importance too.

So, Homer, tell us the cities you speak of. We would like to know.

[greekmythcomix]

How I teach the Iliad in highschool:

I’ve taught the Iliad for over a decade, I’m literally a teacher, and I can even spell ‘Iliad’, and yet my first instinct when reading someone’s opinions about it is not to drop a comment explaining what it is, who ‘wrote’ it, and what that person’s intention truly was.

Agh. <the state of Twitter>

The first thing I do when I am teaching the Iliad is talk about what we know, what we think we know, and what we don’t know about Homer:

We know -

- 0

We think we know -

- the name Homer is a person, possibly male, possibly blind, possibly from Ionia, c.8th/9th C BCE.

- composed the Iliad and Odyssey and Hymns

We don’t know -

- if ‘Homer’ was a real person or a word meaning singer/teller of these stories

- which poem came first

- whether the more historical-sounding events of these stories actually happened, though there is evidence for a similar, much shorter, siege at Troy.

And then I get out a timeline, with suggested dates for the ‘Trojan war’ and Iliad and Odyssey’s estimated composition date and point out the 500ish years between those dates. And then I ask my class to name an event that happened 500 years ago.

They normally can’t or they say ‘Camelot’, because my students are 13-15yo and I’ve sprung this on them. Then I point out the Spanish Armada and Qu. Elizabeth I and Shakespeare were around then. And then I ask how they know about these things, and we talk about historical record.

And how if you don’t have historical record to know the past, you’re relying on shared memory, and how that’s communicated through oral tradition, and how oral tradition can serve a second purpose of entertainment, and how entertainment needs exciting characteristics.

And we list the features of the epic poems of the Iliad and Odyssey: gods, monsters, heroes, massive wars, duels to the death, detailed descriptions of what armour everyone is wearing as they put it on. (Kind of like a Marvel movie in fact.)

And then we look at how long the poems are and think about how they might have been communicated: over several days, when people would have had time to listen, so at a long festival perhaps, when they’re not working. As a diversion.

And then I tell them my old and possibly a bit tortured simile of ‘The Pearl of Myth’:

(Here’s a video of The Pearl of Myth with me talking it through in a calming voice: https://youtu.be/YEqFIibMEyo?sub_confirmation=1

And after all that, I hand a student at the front a secret sentence written on a piece of paper, and ask them to whisper it to the person next to them, and for that person to whisper it to the next, and so on. You’ve all played that game.

And of course the sentence is always rather different at the end than it was at the start, especially if it had Proper nouns in it (which tend to come out mangled). And someone’s often purposely changed it, ‘to be funny’.

And we talk about how this is a very loose metaphor for how stories and memory can change over time, and even historical record if it’s not copied correctly (I used to sidebar them about how and why Boudicca used to be known as ‘Boadicea’ but they just know the former now, because Horrible Histories exists and is awesome)

And after all that, I remind them that what we’re about to read has been translated from Ancient Greek, which was not exactly the language it was first written down in, and now we’re reading it in English.

And that’s how my teenaged students know NOT TO TAKE THE ILIAD AS FACT.

(And then we read the Iliad)

[spineless-lobster]

Most people imagine homeric heroes to be hyper masculine and the women as passive characters or whatever, but when you actually read the source material you realize that that’s very very wrong

Reading the odyssey and seeing menelaus cry over his fallen comrades in the war, odysseus sobbing when the bard singing about troy brings back painful memories, yet again he is constantly crying on calypso’s island. Laertes cries, I’m pretty sure the pig herders cry too? There’s just a lot of men crying in that story it’s so interesting to see men being so openly vulnerable

And of course we have a shit ton of incredibly complex and compelling women who all have their own strengths, sorrows, motivations, etc. Helen, clytemnestra, elektra, penelope, cassandra, andromache, circe and so many more are so incredibly diverse and interesting and powerful in their own ways. Whether it be through magic, cunning, physical strength, resilience, their voices, their devotion, etc. Every single one of them are written so well even though people mainly focus on the men in their stories

I’m just using instances from the epic cycle as examples but if we expand it to all of greek mythology there is an infinite amount of examples one could pull from, and I think that’s pretty rad

[v3suvia]

On Diomedes of Argos.

Typically, when people think about their favorite heroes of the Trojan siege, they think of the likes of Achilles, or Odysseus, or even Agamemnon (or if you’re based, Hector.) And while these are all valid to whatever extent— because let’s be real, no one is choosing favorites based on who has the purest moral standpoint— they’re not exactly remembered for the noblest of reasons.

Achilles spends half of the Iliad inside his tent as a sulky burrito, and the other half slaughtering Trojans and crying over the consequences of his own actions. Odysseus is a chronic liar, and Agamemnon is Agamemnon. But at the end of the day, they’re still remembered (for better or for worse, really.)

Though, on the topic of Homeric heroes, I feel there is one who is often overlooked despite achieving great feats over the course of the epic; Diomedes of Argos. (Note: arguably the most metal of the Achaean heroes at Troy.) So, let’s rant talk about him!

Diomedes was one of the key players in Homer’s Iliad— a recount of the last year of the Trojan siege. Being summoned to fight under oath, Diomedes headed his fleet of 80 ships to Ilium. As well as having a whole chapter dedicated to how kickass he was [read more about that whole thing here], the king of Argos was also a master strategist, and extremely noble— not just in his war efforts.

For example, there are multiple points in the Iliad where he checks the leader of the Trojan expedition, Agamemnon, calling him out on his cowardice or for otherwise being an inadequate leader, [Book 9; ‘Agamemnon, I will begin by taking issue with you over your proposal… do you really believe the Greeks are the cowards and weaklings you say they are? If you for one, have set your heart on getting away, then go.’] [‘Zeus has granted you many things… He gave you the sceptre of power and the honour that comes with it, but he did not give you courage— and courage is the secret of authority.]

And one instance where he truces with the Trojan hero, Glaucus— both of them exchanging armors (on an active battlefield, btw) to honor the fact that their grandfathers had been allies, [Book 6; ‘So let us avoid each other’s spears... And let us exchange our armor so that everyone will know our grandfather’s friendship has made friends of us.’]

He is also one of the only soldiers in the war who avoids committing hubris in the entire epic, which is probably the most telling of all his virtuous traits.

Diomedes also has a proverb named after him! ‘Diomedean Necessity/Diomedean Compulsion', which basically means when someone does something for the greater good (despite the reluctance of the person in question.)

This is taken from the myth of Odysseus and Diomedes taking the wooden statue of Athena— dubbed the Palladium— from Ilium. During this heist, Odysseus tries to stab Diomedes in the back to steal the acclaim of taking the Palladium for himself.

Rather than punishing Odysseus on account of betraying his ally for personal gain, Diomedes ties him up and drags him back to camp instead, because he knew the Greeks couldn’t win the war without Odysseus’ wisdom.

Anyway, why the rant? Sure, I could sit here and convince you that he’s the coolest Greek hero, but what would I be trying to accomplish in doing so? Well, it’s simply because while every other Homeric hero is recognized and represented in modern media, Diomedes isn’t.

He wasn’t even mentioned once in Troy (2004), the film adaptation of the Iliad! Despite him being the focus of multiple chapters in the book, as well as playing a big role in the Achaean army’s over-all victory.

I’m sick of everyone (and by that, I mean most modern media) depicting him as though he was just some dude™ in the Iliad when he was actually (from a mildly biased standpoint) one of the best of the Achaeans at Troy.

TLDR; Diomedes of Argos = Based. He solos ur favs (probably. He almost killed Ajax the greater at Patroclus’ funeral games 💀)Put him in more movies/shows/games so me and the other two Diomedes fans can be happy.

[oddyseye]

Okay, I wasn’t going to say anything else about EPIC. I really wasn’t. But then I remembered I’m a survivor of SA, and staying quiet about things like this is just not in my nature.

This is your last warning for SA discussion before I go on. Cool? Cool. Here’s the deal: Epic the Musical erased Odysseus’s experience of sexual assault at the hands of Calypso, a key element of his story in The Odyssey, and then went ahead and invented a new storyline where the suitors plan to rape Penelope. Yes, you read that correctly. They removed male sexual assault entirely from the narrative but decided to increase Penelope’s suffering by adding gratuitous violence that wasn’t in Homer’s text. This is a deeply troubling creative decision, and I can’t let it slide. First, let’s look at Odysseus’s ordeal with Calypso. In The Odyssey, he is trapped on her island for seven years. This isn’t some romantic getaway — Odysseus explicitly says that he longs to return home to Ithaca, to Penelope, and to his life. Calypso refuses to let him go, keeping him against his will. But Epic completely erases this part of his story. There’s no exploration of what it means for Odysseus to be a victim of sexual violence or how this impacts his journey. Instead, they pretend it never happened, as if male SA is something that can just be brushed under the rug because it’s uncomfortable to address. And that’s a huge problem. When you erase male sexual assault, you contribute to the stigma that male victims face in real life — the idea that their experiences don’t matter, that they’re not “real” victims. Odysseus’ story is one of the few examples in ancient literature that acknowledges male vulnerability in this way, and for Epic to cut it out is not just a missed opportunity but a blatant dismissal of an important aspect of his character.

Now let’s move on to Penelope. In Homer’s text, the suitors are undeniably vile. They invade her home, consume her resources, and harass her with unwanted advances. They also sexually assault the female servants in the household, a horrific but historically grounded detail that highlights the suitors’ depravity. However, Penelope herself is not subjected to physical sexual violence. Her suffering is primarily psychological and emotional. She endures years of torment as she waits for Odysseus, using her wit and resilience to protect her home and her son. She doesn’t need to be physically brutalized to be a compelling, tragic figure — her strength and intelligence speak for themselves. But Epic decided that wasn’t enough. Instead of respecting Penelope’s original characterization, they added a plotline where the suitors actively plan to rape her. This change is not only unnecessary but also deeply harmful. It’s yet another example of modern media using sexual violence as a lazy shortcut to create drama or “raise the stakes” for female characters.

What makes this even worse is the way the creator, Jorge, has handled this topic in the Epic community. Discussions of Calypso’s sexual assault of Odysseus have been explicitly banned in the musical’s Discord server. Imagine that for a moment. A canonical instance of sexual violence is considered too taboo to talk about, but inventing new sexual violence against Penelope? That’s apparently fine. This double standard is infuriating. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the source material and a disregard for the real-world implications of these narrative choices.

This adaptation could have done something powerful by acknowledging Odysseus’s assault and exploring its impact on him. This could have been a valid artistic choice if handled carefully, if, for instance, it had been used to explore Penelope’s fear and determination in the face of such a threat. But in the context of Epic, this addition feels hollow and gratuitous. Why? Because while the musical amplifies Penelope’s suffering, it silences Odysseus’. I will only add that adding a storyline where the suitors plan to harm Penelope isn’t inherently a bad creative choice. Sexual violence is already present in The Odyssey. The suitors’ treatment of the female servants, for instance, is a horrifying but integral part of the story, showing how power and entitlement corrupt them. Expanding on the danger Penelope faces in her own home could have been a powerful way to explore her resilience, intelligence, and the stakes she faced while waiting for Odysseus. But Epic the Musical completely erases this part of Odysseus’ story. There’s no mention of his captivity or the abuse he suffered. Instead, his time with Calypso is framed as little more than a delay on his journey, a footnote rather than a defining trial. When Epic decided to add a plotline where the suitors plan to rape Penelope, it fundamentally changed her struggle. Again, this isn’t necessarily a bad choice, it could have been a way to emphasize the danger she faced as a lone woman surrounded by violent, entitled men. But for this addition to work, it needed to be balanced against the rest of the story.

Imagine if Epic had included both Penelope’s new storyline and Odysseus’ abuse at the hands of Calypso. This could have been a profoundly meaningful parallel. Odysseus and Penelope, separated by years and miles, both endure profound violations of their autonomy. He is physically held captive, forced into a relationship he doesn’t want. She is psychologically held captive in her own home, under constant threat from the suitors. Both fight to maintain their sense of self in the face of overwhelming violation. Both cling to the hope of reunion as their anchor and their strength.

The Odyssey is one of the most enduring stories of all time because of its complexity and humanity. Stripping away that complexity in favor of cheap, exploitative drama is an insult to the original text and to the audience.

[seeminglyseph]

I really appreciate that Eurylochus in Epic I am pretty sure is adapted from a character in the original who is at the very least somewhat antagonistic and cowardly in characterization and has spun him into a compelling and interesting character who has genuinely caused the fandom to basically to be like “but was he wrong though?”

Because like, the fact that at multiple points both Odysseus and Eurylochus have been right at different points of their adventure and just too fucked up emotionally or too “we can’t talk about things” to like. Clear up the issues they were having, means that they just. Became a tragedy.

And it is especially beautiful because Eurylochus and Polites bring this weight of friendship and loss to Odysseus in Epic, despite their existence in the Odyssey fully lacking that characterization. Though I think it is part of the miscommunication at times because like. Perspective. And if you try to look up extra information from the source text to give more context, Eurylochus is so different in that source text that like… it will back up arguments in favour of Odysseus more easily. But modern sensibilities side with Eurylochus more easily due to monarchs and tyrants like… heavily falling out of favour. So things like kings, gods, princes, captains, status, and rank are like… they exist but they aren’t seen the same.

Like the Odyssey is set in the Mycenaean age, late Bronze Age. This was a tale of ancient times when Homer was telling it. So by modern standards things can’t help but be archaic in ways. Especially given that The Iliad and Odyssey have so much to do with colonization and war and just like. Contemplating it. Existing in it and the aftermaths of it, and being conscious that it is being told to a world of people who are still acting and living in a unifying country due to colonization, that is expanding and growing its power with war and language and colonization. And the stories of the past wars are both glorious and tragic because of the necessity for glory to the heroes of the past but caution and understanding that…

Like Troy was once favoured by Zeus, that favour can be lost or swayed. Only the gods can count on their power lasting for eternity, men must know that a grudge can bloom anywhere and topple the mightiest kingdom if he does not mind his actions carefully.

The Aeneid, by Virgil which is written much later and I admit I have only read a summary, refers to Odysseus (through his Roman name Ulysses) really negatively, but that’s partially because the Romans kinda saw themselves as refugees and survivors of Troy. So like. By the time the Aeneid was being written, it was kinda the story of “those bastards who burnt our home down” from what I understand.

“Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?” For realsies. Looking things up apparently the Aeneid was the most popular version of both the Odyssey and the Iliad for a while and it wasn’t until the World Wars that Homer’s versions came back into fashion. Part of that was translation issues but still, damn.

This has become the most unhinged ramble, I’m sorry. I don’t know what any of this is even about. Translation? Perspective? Adaptation? The power of storytelling? All of it? Honestly the fact of the matter is that Eurylochus has been adapted to a new character for Epic, but he fits the narrative of the Odyssey especially as far as we need it to be told today because of how power structures work, but it’s been executed extremely well.

It keeps the technicalities of the traits of the poem “cowardice” and “mutiny” and creates a character with insecurity and missing sense of self who is afraid in a reasonable way and in order to overcome that fear reacts with aggression or violence. But in a way that is encouraged, acceptable or rewarded for a soldier. However, as a second in command, he is accustomed to having a role where he checks Odysseus’ plans for flaws. This is a good position to have him in when you’re plotting a battle action, it’s a bad position to have him in when you need him to provide a united front to keep the crew from panicking.

His position as both one of the crew and Odysseus’ Right Hand Man puts him in a position where he gets part of Odysseus’ picture, and is used to a relationship where he can be comfortable and doubtful and easy with Odysseus, however Odysseus as the Captain and the King cannot be fallible in the eyes of his men, because his men need to be able to follow his orders without question in the case of a crisis or it will be a serious issue.

Honestly the whole “I need you to be able to trust me and follow my orders in a crisis” is… part of general insubordination going on into modern day practice in crisis response and military as far as I understand it so like. I do get that. Though like. They are… two deeply damaged and traumatized men who just… cannot have a proper conversation with each other.

And also I am of the opinion that Odysseus in Puppeteer, when he brushes off Eurylochys’ attempted confession with his

“There's only so much left we can endure”

I am pretty sure that is not just brushing off, that is fully Odysseus admitting to Eurylochus like “I can’t handle anything else, please.” Like. My brain is making parallels to FMA “terrible day for rain” and Eurylochus drops it because he’s looking at a man on the verge of breaking down, and grants him some dignity or peace.

I mean Mutiny calls back to Puppeteer when Odysseus calls Eurylochus out, he would have done the same. Eurylochus wanted to cut and run on Circe’s island, leaving the men she had to their fate. But since Odysseus has all the power he carries all the blame, which makes it easier when any of the others make a mistake or something goes wrong. And it’s part of the reason Ody goes back to being Captain as soon as the crew is in trouble again. If they’ve angered a god, it’s better and easier to have Odysseus deal with it.

Unfortunately for everyone Odysseus has now crossed the Despair Event Horizon and all that matters is Penelope, Telemachus, and Ithaca. Everyone else can go fuck themselves.

Which, you know. Bodes well for all the fucked up dweebs who’ve been harassing his family for years. That’s probably gonna go great for them considering all the last shreds of his humanity he sacrificed to get home and see them safe.

[incorrectbatfam]

If the members of the batfam wrote memoirs or essays about themselves, what would their opening hooks be?

Dick: *record scratch and freeze frame* So you're probably wondering how I ended up here.

Jason: This is the story of how I died. Don't worry, I got better.

Tim: It all began on the day of my actual birth. Both of my parents failed to show up.

Damian: A caution to those who have an inferiority complex: stop reading right this second. The Homeric epic of my life will only make you feel more useless.

Duke: According to all known laws of city planning, there is no way a city like Gotham should be able to exist. It's infrastructure is too weak to build its fat little buildings off the ground. Gotham, of course, runs anyway, because the city doesn't care what humans think is impossible.

Cullen: The first rule of Tumblr is you don't talk about Tumblr.

Stephanie: ...I can explain.

Cassandra: Hi my name is Cassandra Wu-San Black Bat Orphan Cain and I have short bat-colored black hair (that’s how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-shoulder and cold black eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like an Asian Amy Lee (AN: if u don’t know who she is get da hell out of here!). I’m not related to the Biblical Cain but I wish I was because he’s a major fucking hottie. I’m a bat but my teeth are straight and white. I have pale white skin. I’m also a vigilante, and I live in a comic book city called Gotham in New Jersey where I’m the second Batgirl (I’m twenty-four). I’m a goth (in case you couldn’t tell) and I wear mostly black. I love Hot Topic and I buy all my clothes from there. For example today I was wearing a black bodysuit with matching holsters around it and a black leather jacket, yellow fingerless gloves and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside in Gotham. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of Rogues stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them.

Barbara: Do you ever look at someone and wonder what is going on inside their head?

Harper: A long long time ago in a city far away...

Carrie: Bruce told me I can't insert audio so let's just say you got Rickrolled.

Kate: The definition of gay? Me. The definition of disaster? Also me. My picture's in the dictionary twice, suck it.

Alfred: In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and more bat-children. And at this point I'm not so sure about death.

Selina: "Mom I want Bruce Wayne" "We have Bruce Wayne at home" The Bruce Wayne at home:

Bruce: Look behind you.

[telemachus-of-ithaca]

(ooc) few Telemachus (mainly for epic but if this post gets enough traction I can do modern Telemachus headcanons) Headcanons cause I said so!! >:)

—

tw : brief mention of abuse.

.

- whenever he’s around people he’s just most of the time neutral and happy. though when he’s alone he sometimes cries like a baby from all the pent up stress.

- a dog person. REALLY a dog person. he sometimes tames stray dogs and one time he tamed a wolf, he would sacrifice himself for like. one dog. (me too, tel.)

- absolutely LOVES books. though he would hate Colleen Hoover and love Rick Riordan if he was real (he is to me) trust me I’m Homer’s reincarnation.

- he can lie very good like his father and is really fast even if he’s scrawny (TWINK) and giggles like crazy mainly because he’s a legacy of Hermes.

- loyal like Percy Jackson. that’s all.

- he read a bunch of myths when he was young, his favorites are Jason and the Argonauts, Perseus, and Orpheus and Eurydice.

- he cares for others but he sometimes can’t care enough for himself.

- bisexual mess (to me)

- looks like MICO (because I can..)

- sounds like Hunter from the owl house or MICO (again, yes fight me)

- he experienced abuse from the suitors sometimes. the only one who hadn’t harmed him was Amphinomus.

- he’s really clingy to whoever is kind to him. as he didn’t get much treatment like that other than from his mother.

- when he first saw his dad again he started fucking SOBBING but after his father, Odysseus gifted him a carved horse he was able to protect after all of that.

- one time he had to skip a few meals and stay stuck in his room because of the suitors trying to attack him or they were just really drunk.

taglist:

@unhinged-as-hell , @odysseus-reigning-king-of-ithaca , @odysseus-of-ithaca-is-lost , @penelope-is-waiting you can add some headcanons to this and you can say some HC’s for yours (if you want)

[differentnerddiplomatopera]

Opinions and Interpretation ( Epic Spoilers)

Author's Note (As long as it’s not hurting/attacking anyone mentally, physically, or emotionally, people are entitled to their own opinions, own beliefs, own ideas, and nobody is allowed to make you feel bad for your thoughts/ideas.)

Okkkkkkk, I had a long day, and this was bothering me so I wanted to make a post about this so humor me. I have problems with an issue in and outside the Epic community, so that is something I will speak on. Also an inappropriate situation happened earlier this week that caused someone to become extremely uncomfortable so I am going to discuss that as well. And imma teach this up, so sit down and let’s talk. (This issue is a separate post)

Opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

As long as an opinion is not hurting anyone emotionally, spiritually, mentally, physically,  you are free to speak your mind in the proper time and place. Your opinions on things, with the things above in mind, should be respected because you are entitled to your opinion. It’s yours and it is precious, cause you are precious. 🥰

Same way switched. You certainly don’t call the opposite party’s opinions “cringe” or  “weird” just because you don’t like them. Are you allowed to discuss why you don’t like it? As long as you are being respectful, go ahead. Do what you do but certainly don’t diminish anyone’s ideas. They are precious. 

Now, the jet pack animation in the Vengeance Saga. Was it unexpected? Hell yeah. Would you like to have seen Jorge choose a different orchestration on how Odysseus got out of water? Maybe. But do we call his idea “cringe?” 

Class: No

Absolutely not! He has stated before how video games have affected the creation of Epic and how he wants to demonstrate it in the animatic. So why are we saying it was “stupid” or ”weird?” Is it inaccurate? Unless Homer has a trashcan of scrapped jetpack scenes we have no idea about, yeah it is. But it is fun. And I think that is what we missed. We are allowed to have fun, as long as we are not posing it as accurate information.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Jorge never said this was a “on the mark” musical of the Odyssey. He is gonna take liberties, and unless a Greek Mythology Association sues him for not following the story to the letter, is it hurting anyone? Do the people who like an accurate retelling of Odyssey have to like Epic? No, absolutely not. Well, I mean unless someone has a gun to your head.

I have mutuals who don’t like Epic, and that is absolutely ok! They aren’t doing anything illegal, and neither are we. UNLESS we are telling and or arguing with Greek Religion Experts, mythographists and the like, that Epic is God's honest truth. In that case, we need to read The Odyssey together and apologize to them.

However, if you are gonna listen to it and just shit talk about it, bullying the creator and the fandom for creating/liking it, scrutinizing the road they chose, and just being a Debbie downer about it, do it by yourself. 

You know what is great too? Sparkle* The Power of Animation *Sparkle. Animators don’t like it, you do it. And that is not an taunting attack like, “oh if you think you can do better, then do it” blah blah nonsense. This is the glory of your talents. You are allowed to let your mind travel in the way that it does, I encourage it.  When I saw the prosthetic Poseidon, I didn’t say in the comments, “actually Poseidon didn’t have a prosthetic, this is cringe and inaccurate.” I didn’t say anything in the comments cus I was screaming and shrieking like a little bitch cus of how much I loved it. I apologize to my neighbors, I was losing my crap, like OMFG, HOW ARE SO TALENTED AND WHAT IS IN YOUR MIND I WANNA SEE IT AND-sorry I’m trying to get to a point.

(Also go check out Neal Illustrators Etsy shop, the pins are up and scrumptious)

All are talented artists/animators. I’m pretty sure when he watches your stuff, he gets so  giddy and excited. No one idea is steady law. We all are allowed to shine and share. I wanna see your talent and ability. 

So please, please.  Epic fans, if you don’t like Jorge’s ideas, look towards the animators. If you don’t like the animator's ideas, do your own. And if you can’t, imagine your own. 

But please, do not send hate or nasty messages toward Jorge and his team or to people in/within the community. Jorge is allowed to have fun, I am allowed to have fun, you are allowed to have fun. We are all allowed to have safe, healthy fun. Don’t spend all your time being a hater. Respect, we all deserve respect. Opinions, we all deserve to have our healthy and good-mannered opinion’s. 

Ok? Ok. Yay!

[jasper-pagan-witch]

Hermes/Mercury In Poetry: A Compilation Of Poems By Sappho, Carl Dennis, And Shirley Burger With Mediocre Analysis

Hermes and Mercury are a god who has remained in the public consciousness despite the fact that worship of them has dwindled to nearly nothing (shoutout to my fellow Ancient Greek polytheists, though). Due to still being in the public consciousness despite everything, it’s not that surprising to see Hermes and Mercury still popping up in everything from video games to battleships, and don’t get me started on Hermes Trismegistus. (No, really, please don’t, I don’t know enough about Hermeticism to get into that.)

This is not any form of professional comparative essay. Or even a casual comparative essay. This is just me going feral over poetry and Hermes/Mercury. Let’s get this shit started.

In Sappho: A New Translation (translated by Mary Barnard), Hermes appears in two parts: 14 and 97. These depict Hermes in two vastly different roles: cupbearer and psychopomp.

Fragment 14 goes as thus:

PEACE REIGNED IN HEAVEN Ambrosia stood already mixed in the wine bowl It was Hermes who took up the wine jug and poured wine for the gods

Fragment 14 depicts Hermes in the role of cupbearer for the gods, a duty more often attributed to Hebe (the daughter of Zeus and Hera, the goddess of youth) or Ganymede (a Trojan prince, the constellation Aquarius, god of homosexual love, playmate of Eros and Hymenaios). Theoi.com lists him as being a cupbearer among other things due to his ministry to Zeus, but I’m gonna be honest, I had a hard time figuring out how to read their citations and couldn’t find any other instance other than the general page about this particular thing. The most likely answer here, though, is that I just suck at reading.

Meanwhile, Fragment 97 depicts a more well-known side of Hermes:

I HAVE OFTEN ASKED YOU NOT TO COME NOW Hermes, Lord, you who lead the ghosts home: But this time I am not happy; I want to die, to see the moist lotus open along Acheron

Our girl Sappho was fucking going through it, man. This poem calls to Hermes as a psychopomp, a duty attributed to him in Homer’s Odyssey (an epic from C8th B.C.), the Homeric Hymn 4 to Hermes (an epic from C7th to C4th B.C.), Aeschylus’s Libation Bearers (a tragedy from C5th B.C.), and more and more as we get closer to the current period in history. According to the Homeric Hymn 4, he got this job after being sent to retrieve Persephone and handling that whole scenario, so Zeus just appointed him to keep that psychopomp job. The downsides of pulling things off well, I suppose.

So, that was how Sappho perceived Hermes through poetry. How about something more...modern? In 2001, Carl Dennis published “Practical Gods”, which won the 2000 Ruth Lily Poetry Prize and the 2002 Pulitzer Prize. Greek, Catholic, and Christian figures appear through these poems as Carl Dennis draws on mythological and religious imagery for his works. Hermes appears in “A Priest of Hermes” in his psychopomp duties, and the idea of Death and how one dies appears in other poems in this book, like “Eternal Life” and “Progressive Health”. (Not every poem in this work is focused on Death, but those ones were the most striking to me when I first read them.)

A Priest of Hermes The way up, from here to there, may be closed, But the way down, from there to here, still open Wide enough for a slender god like Hermes To slip from the clouds if you give your evenings To learning about the plants under his influence, The winged and wingless creatures, the rocks and metals, And practice his sacred flute or dulcimer. No prayers. Just the effort to make his stay So full of the comforts of home he won’t forget it, To build him a shrine he finds congenial, Something as simple as roofed pillars Without the darkness of an interior. If you’re lucky, he’ll want to sit on the steps Under the stars for as long as you live And sniff the fragrance of wine and barley As it blows from the altar on a salty sea breeze. He’ll want, when you die, to offer his services As a guide on the shadowy path to the underworld. Not till you reach the watery crossing Will he leave your side, and even then He’ll shout instructions as you slip from your shoes And wade alone into that dark river.

To me, this poem feels warm and comforting, in a way that Death is only sometimes described. Death as a gentle force is becoming more popular to depict rather than violent Death, as Death is slowly being seen as something that comforts you after a long period of hardship (fighting terminal illness, being in danger, a heart attack, et cetera) or to help you step forward if you die in a more peaceful manner (such as dying in one’s sleep). This poem being so calming makes sense: a psychopomp’s duty is to guide you to the afterlife, and it’s hard to guide someone who’s flipping the fuck out.

Let’s fast forward five years, to 2006. Noble House Publishing put out “Songs of Honour”, an anthology of poems that span all kinds of authors and subjects. (It’s also completely unclear whether or not the writers knew that their works were being used in this, and it doesn’t have an ISBN...) But the poem of note here is Shirley Burger’s “Mercury, Oh Caduceus”, found on page sixty-nine (nice). Let’s see if you can figure out why it was so interesting to me. The poem goes as follows:

Mercury, Oh Caduceus Mercury, such a toxic rhyme... A goddess, once upon a time... Twisted with your mammon ways... Oh my Father counts the days... When your Caduceus will be revealed... For all your bronze and all your “steal”... You’ve preyed upon the children dear... And as you speak all I can hear... Is poverty upon us all... You’ve tripped us up and made us fall... Soon your serpent ways will see... Nothing about you makes us free... Your lies are beneath all your hidden ways... Oh how my Father counts the days... Until your statue crumbles hard... And frees the people once again... From what you’ve told us is our friend... Your lies stroll forth unto the day... When thoughts of you will go away... Forever.

Okay, yes, yes, this poem treats Mercury as being synonymous with the serpent that convinced Eve to bite the fruit of knowledge and reads like a Christian freaking out about heresy and misleading the children, yes, sure, whatever. It’s like the polar opposite of Carl Dennis’s approach to Hermes.

But most interesting to me is the fact that the author refers to Mercury as a goddess. This is fascinating to me because in Western astrology, despite Mercury being a “masculine” god, Mercury the planet is considered to be perfectly neutral in terms of masculinity and femininity. I have no idea how Shirley Burger managed to make the jump from “Mercury is a Roman god” to “this is a goddess”, considering everything, but it’s fascinating to me.

There is no closing statement for this post! It’s not even a formal essay! I’ve said “fuck” four times, after all. But this is the end of the Tumblr post. Enjoy the poetry.

Sources & References

(Yes, I found an online MLA 9th edition citing website tool just to make these look fancy. Fuck you.)

Wikipedia contributors. “Hermes.” Wikipedia, 10 Jan. 2002, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes.

Wikipedia contributors. “Mercury (mythology).” Wikipedia, 17 Nov. 2024, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(mythology).

“HERMES - Greek God of Herds and Trade, Herald of the Gods.” Theoi Greek Mythology, www.theoi.com/Olympios/Hermes.html.

Sappho. Sappho: A New Translation. University of California Press, 2019.

Dennis, Carl. Practical gods. National Geographic Books, 2001.

Burger, Shirley. Songs of honour. Edited by Noble House Staff, Noble House Publishers, 2006. “Mercury, Oh Caduceus”, pg. 69

Burk, Kevin. Astrology: Understanding the Birth Chart : a Comprehensive Guide to Classical Interpretation. Llewellyn Worldwide, 2001.

[undoundue]

the pinch hitter

I. 

World Series. Game 7. Fifth inning. I, a pinch hitter, a mere benchwarmer, smack an outside pitch into the right field stands, giving the Dodgers the lead. Mookie and Freddie slap me on the back as I enter the dugout, and to celebrate we go for burritos at a Mexican place inside the stadium. How can I say no to the all-stars? And yet, isn’t it a bit irresponsible to eat such a heavy meal between innings? 

“Kiké…” Mookie says (referring to teammate Enrique Hernández), “…he don’t know how to read.”

“He can read,” Freddie amends, “but he lacks literacy.”

“His comprehension is terrible,” Mookie says. “In a way, that’s worse. More dangerous. It makes him susceptible. Susceptible to influences.”

“Oh, he’s susceptible, that’s for sure,” Freddie says. “You agree, pinch hitter?”

My burrito is dripping. The sluggers are looking at me expectantly. Dodgers fans on their way to the bathroom are stopping, staring, wondering whether we’re the real deal.

“He’s basically illiterate,” I say—nervous grin, no conviction. 

It’s the worst of both worlds. Mookie and Freddie know I’m just saying it to fit in. They’ll give me no masculine credence. But the crowd will take it seriously. The rumor will get out and hurt Kiké. 

Poor Kiké! And they’ll think I’m racist, too.

Next thing I know I’m burning rubber on the way to my Motel 6. They can pinch hit for me—why not? I pinch hit for them.

I call my friend, the promoter, and tell him, Fuck the Dodgers, we’re celebrating my home run. Get a party going. 

He’s like, Aw yeah.

But the party is a bust. The motel pool reeks of chlorine and has cloudy white streaks in it of unknown composition. There are too many dudes, not enough chicks—not enough of either, really—and all of them trashy. Short notice for a celebration. 

In the shallow end, my friend is fooling around with a white girl with pale pink hair—the color of chewed bubblegum. 

He waves at me, like, Her ass is open, you wanna fool around with her too? 

But I don’t. I am sullen. I swim over the side of the pool and do a little cocaine off the bill of my Dodgers cap. 

My Dad wades up to me. His attitude: craven, appeasing.

“Are you having a good time, son?” he asks.

I grunt. “Not enough chicks.”

My Dad gestures at the pink haired girl. "She used to be a ninja.”

“That's cool,” I say, scornfully. What, so I’m supposed to feel sorry for her?

Both my Dad and I are naked, and our penises are erect. Our penises are nearly identical in size, shape and coloration. They only distinguish themselves when a pool wave passes over, distorting one but not the other.

It makes me mad—I’m twice the man he is, and my cock should reflect this. The cocaine was insufficient in quantity and it’s serving up more of an irritable than a euphoric high.

I’m also starting to really miss the Dodgers. At least there I have purpose. There’s a big scoreboard past the diving board, and it shows that we’re tied. I flip on the TV just in time to see Kiké Hernández hit a walk-off home run.

Holy shit! We won!

II. 

Back at the stadium, Kiké and I take the stairs to the clubhouse.

“Kiké, that was…” I shake my head in awe. “Epic homer, man.”

Kiké adjusts his glasses. He has a proud, yet whispery voice. “Yes, it was epic. But, excuse me, if you look at the metre, you’ll find that it was a Spencerian, rather than Homerian epic. Yes? Yes? Do you know what I mean?”

I don’t—I have no idea what he’s talking about. I wonder if he’s mad at me.

“Kiké…whatever you heard, I never said you needed a literacy program. I never said your SAT prep was insufficient. Mookie and Freddie, they said—” 

“Shhh…quiet now. Let us get our prizes,” Kiké says. 

The clubhouse is pretty standard, I guess: sofa, TV, coffee table, bowl of mints. On the floor is a cardboard box with PRIZES written on it. I reach inside and…I’m not sure how many Magic boosters to take. It seems like there’s plenty to go around, but I decide to start slow, re-up if I need to. I take five.

Turns out this was a mistake. None of my teammates takes more than four boosters—some fewer—even though, I’ll repeat, there are plenty to go around. Dirty looks.

I consider putting a booster back, but wouldn’t that be even more cringe? Should I own my greed, my rebellion, my outsider status?

I’m overthinking it. I crack the boosters. My teammates are no doubt focused on their own problems. Even though we won the series, the mood in the clubhouse is grim. Now that the season is over, the hard part begins: card development.

It’s written into our contracts. If you don’t know the business of baseball, now you know: The tickets and television rights are a loss leader. The money is in the trading cards. Baseball would be nothing without its stats.

The Dodgers’ owner, Frank McCourt, bursts into the clubhouse, chomping a cigar.

“That’s a Pokémon,” he says, pointing at my pack’s rare.

It is: a Typhlosion. I’m not sure how to explain this.

“It doesn’t have any attack moves,” I point out, “It just has a special ability.”

“A Poképower.” Freddie Freeman can’t help himself. “That’s the term.”

I cough when Frank exhales a cloud of smoke.

“I don’t give a rat’s ass,” Frank says. “This is a tribal set, and goblins and elves are OLD HAT. I need a new tribe by TOMORROW. A goddamn POKÉMON isn’t going to CUT IT. Do you understand? DO YOU?”

I’ve never read Frank McCourt’s memoir, Angela’s Ashes, but I’ve heard it’s a compassionate and moving portrait of an Irish-American family in the mid-20th century. Based on that, you’d think Frank would be a gentle boss. 

You’d be wrong. He’s a tyrant. Whatever empathy writing requires, it doesn’t seem to translate into one’s style of running the Dodgers—or so I’ve painfully learned. 

“Do you understand,” Frank says, his voice like a cattle brand, “benchwarmer?”

Next thing I know it’s an eyebagged sunrise and the floor has fallen out from the blow and I’m burning rubber on the way to the police station. 

I go straight to my friend’s office—he has a Tom Selleck mustache now; he’s quit being a promoter and taken a job as chief of police. I look at him sadly.

“You used to hate cops,” I tell him. “We used to argue. I’d say more cops, less prison. You’d say, more prison, less cops. What happened, man?”

“I haven’t changed a bit. I’m as good as four pigs. That means if I’m working, that’s three less pigs on the street. Now, why are you here?”

“I want to go undercover and help take down my boss, Frank McCourt.”

“Why?”

“He’s corrupt.”

“Hmm, interesting. We’ll need to fake your death,” my friend says. He sifts through some files on his desk. “Go to the evidence room and wait for me there.”

The evidence room is sparse: a bare bulb, a coffin, a mirror. I get in the coffin and pull the lid closed.

Time passes.

III.

When I get out of the coffin, my friend directs me to look in the mirror. My hair has gone silvery-gray. My cheeks and eyelids droop.

“You’re old,” my friend says. “That’s good. McCourt won’t recognize you. And if he does, he won’t think of you as a threat.”

My friend waits for me outside the room while I change from my uniform into a grey sweater, slacks, and a black leather jacket.

Then my friend beckons me to his office. He has a framed photo on his desk that I don’t remember from before: him, a pink-haired woman, two kids.

He hands me a semi-automatic pistol, which I tuck into my jacket.

“We’re still investigating your allegation of corruption. But in the meantime, you’re going to be McCourt’s underboss—his majordomo.” 

He tells me an address in the warehouse district. Kiké is waiting for me there. He raises an eyebrow in what might be recognition, but he doesn’t tip his hand.

“You’re now one of the most powerful men in North America,” Kiké says in his serpentine whisper, “Did you know that? Please. Please. This way.”

Kiké takes me to a box-like room, barren except for lamp, desk, and chair. He closes the door and motions me to sit. When I do, he puts a sheet of paper on the desk in front of me.

“Should we ice him?” he whispers.

I consider the paper: a grainy, black-and-white mugshot of a man I don’t recognize. 

“I don’t think so,” I say.

Kiké puts the paper in a beige folder, and replaces it with a mugshot of a different man.

“Should we whack him?”

This man is noticeably ugly. Otherwise, there’s nothing on the paper to guide my decision. 

I’m not sure how to make these calls. But I don’t want to admit my ignorance, or appear too soft and risk blowing my cover.

“Yeah, I’m thinking we should whack this guy.”

Kiké nods and leaves the room. I hear a gunshot. He returns and puts a plastic-wrapped peppermint on the table along with another mugshot.

“This man—shall we pop a cap in his ass?”

This goes on for a while. After the twelfth gunshot—eleven mints piled on my desk—Kiké returns, carrying a tall stack of papers in both hands. 

He says: “McCourt is pleased with your work.”

“McCourt,” I say, “When can I meet him?”

Kiké smiles. He drops the stack of papers on my desk.

“Now that you understand the basics, we will switch to a more efficient mode of processing, yes? We will talk when you finish your work.” 

Kiké leaves. Now it’s all names, no pictures. 

1. Shall I steez him…Samuel Tibbs? 

2. Should I rub-a-dub him…Bruno Comber? 

3. Shall I bring unto him…Harold Feibleman?

4. Should he expand indefinite…Roman Milbrath? 

5. Does a new life await for…Albertius Beck?

Can these really all be idioms for murder? I wonder, bubbling in the provided Scantron with the provided number 2 pencil. And just how much power do I have? 

It seems like I’m playing God for hundreds of people. And yet I am a blind God, who cannot judge fairly, or see the effect of his work.

At one point I encounter my own name. The question is: “Shall he be compleat?”

I’m not sure what that means, so I bubble in “No.”

I’m a thousand names deep when the chief of police knocks on the door.

“You’re off the case,” he says. “Pack it up.”

“Off the case!”

“The investigation is over. He’s not that corrupt.”

I stare at him, broken-hearted.

“Go home,” he tells me, gruff, but with an unmistakable note of relief. “Hit some baseballs. Find a nice girl. You don’t need to…”

He gestures at the papers.

“He can’t get away with it,” I tell him.

My friend nods. He was expecting this. He peels off his mustache and lays it on the desk.

“I’ve done what I can.” He grins wryly. “One less pig on the streets, eh?”

My friend leaves.

I bubble the Scantron for another thirty minutes before doubt strangles faith. I hadn’t thought at all about the ethnicities of the names I was judging. What if my choices are publicized and seen as racist? Could this be Kiké’s scheme?

Even God could be so cancelled. I put on the mustache and leave.

It’s a blue, warm, and breezy twilight, and there are only two cars in the parking lot: my Ford Gran Torino and a black limousine. I crouch behind my car. To my surprise, a man in a black hoodie is already crouching there.

“Who are you?” I demand.

My Dad turns. “My name is unimportant. I’m here to kill McCourt.”

I have no patience for this. “Murder is wrong.”

“Your mother…”

“I don’t want to hear it.”

“My point is, is it still wrong if it’s McCourt?”

“Yes. Yes! But I’m not here to argue philosophy. You have neither the aim nor the conviction needed for this task. You need to leave! Leave! Let me do the wrong thing!”

My Dad looks hurt. That’s fine. He’ll forget. I give him a peppermint and he slinks away.

The sky has gone from blue to black when the warehouse doors open and McCourt appears. 

He’s puffing a cigar and holding court with Mookie, Freddie, and Kiké. Obsequiously they smile at his jokes, as if any reward is worth submission. I decide that I want him to see me before he dies. 

“Frank,” I say, stepping from behind my car. 

McCourt pales. “Malachy!”

I raise my pistol and shoot. Freddie and Mookie scatter. But Kiké jumps in front of the bullet. I can’t believe my eyes. Something—guilt, I suppose—drops the bottom out of my stomach. 

Poor Kiké! He really believed!

McCourt takes a revolver from Kiké’s pocket and shoots me six times in the chest.

I slump against the Ford. I should be dead. McCourt thinks I am.

He walks towards his limo.

But he doesn’t realize that my black leather jacket is filled with densely packed Magic cards, offering protection not unlike Kevlar. 

A seam must have been injured, because they flow torrentially from the bottom of my jacket and into the parking lot—some of them punctured, bloody.

One of them hits McCourt’s shoe. He turns and sees me holding a gun on him. My hands don’t shake.

“There’s no point punishing someone just because you’re old,” he says. 

I say nothing.

“You can’t eat statistics. Someone should have taught you that. And if they didn’t well, I’m sorry, but I don’t give a RAT’S—”

I shoot him in the head.

I can hear police sirens. My friend must have left a few cops nearby. My lips make a horrible, life-denying sneer.

I put the gun in my mouth and pull the trigger.

Click.

But nothing happens. It’s out of bullets.

The cards are still pouring from my jacket. I pick up one of them. It’s a baseball card for a player with no name. It just says his position: The Pinch Hitter.

The sirens are getting louder, but I make no attempt to escape. 

Slumped against the car, I wait for the law to arrive.

[icelogged]

like i said our first reading is the epic of gilgamesh but the introduction of concept of world literature is of course credited to goethe and im just like hehehe german hehe not exactly stars alignment like last time but understanding some his work by ear was cool probably going to use his poetry as one my german exams.