#I think this is why I don't get fandom culture. and shipping specifically. like. no I'm not. I'm not enjoying these characters. I'm not

[running-in-the-dark]

I know I've been particularly incoherent for the past few days (again), and it's so dramatic and ridiculous but it seriously feels like something is punishing me. I just want to like things a normal amount. I just want to like people and characters a normal amount.

I don't want to become so fully obsessed that literally nothing else exists and thinking about anything else feels like my brain is being stabbed with a thousand tiny knives. I don't want to need to find every piece of information I possibly can on whoever it is this time. I don't want to feel like I'm (literally) losing my mind when I see them. I don't want any of this!

I can not believe that I exist as a human being on this stupid planet just to get obsessed with people over and over and over again forever.

[elexuscal]

the longer i stay in fandom, the longer i think a huge amount of bad takes and discourse come from an... abundance of identifying with a character

to be clear, i don't think it's bad to identify with a character. far from it! i think that's part of what makes fiction so powerful.

and it's only logical people often attach to a blorbo because they're just like me, for real. a person will see some element of themselves-- their race, their gender, their sexuality, their hobbies, their family life, their specific flavour of neurodivergence-- and something just resonates. it gives them a way to explore and name this important part of themselves, a part they maybe didn't even know existed before it.

and everything is well and good until some split between them and the character shows up

because of course, no character, except an explicit self-insert written by yourself, will ever be a perfect 1:1 for your own experiences. so sooner or later-- maybe in canon, maybe in a fanwork-- your blorbo diverges from your lived experience in a huge way.

I think this is why shipping culture in particular gets so toxic. While it is by no means the only way to indulge with shipping, a significant portion is 'if i was in that character's shoes, i would choose X'. the fight becomes for your own self-identity.

but this gets expanded in other ways. a character who is revealed to be black when the majority of the fandom had just assumed they were white. or revealed to be queer, or maybe the 'wrong' flavour of queer. or fuck, even some more innocuous part of their backstory, one that's nonetheless so meaningful for SOMEONE, but now it feels like the story is saying, fuck you, we're doing something else

i don't know. i just feel acknowledging this perceived-attack-on-identity helps me understand why people react it what seems to be such outsized way to canon and fanworks alike.

at the same time, i think it's a really important thing to check in yourself.

it's nice, to see a character who you identify with. who resonates with for being like you. but it's also nice to acknowledge and appreciate the way characters are not like you at All. how great it is to get insight into this totally different lived experience. and to muse on how wonderful that recognition might be for someone who does have that background.

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Finals

Propaganda Under Cut

Sakura Haruno

Her husband is gay and her author doesn't know how to write women. So many people say she's the worst but she. DESERVES. BETTER!!! Save her from this franchise.

My baby girl my bestie my best friend. She committed the crime of um being written by kishimoto who both doesn’t know how to write women and somehow writes men in the gayest way possible specifically naruto and sasuke. Like the thing is naruto and sasuke ARE gay and also she gets so much hate for the crime of kishimoto writing her one dimensionally in love with sasuke. I know her personally she is a butch lesbian to me just trust me she’s in love with Ino and has a lesbian thing going on with Karin okay just trust me. My everything. She needs to divorce the loveless lavender marriage she’s in 

What is there to say, even? The OG Threat to my 90s anime brain, the only woman I've ever hated with such a passion she made me turn away from the color pink. I used to write fics with my friend where she got left behind on purpose so our OCs could join the Naruto and Sasuke team instead. I loathed this bitch until I was 16 and realized the author simply couldnt write women and decided it was time to make peace with Sakura. It is not her fault she's vaguely written and obsessive over Sasuke. She deserves better. Sasuke and Naruto still should be together and Sakura shouldnt be with Sasuke but I no longer believe this because I hate Sakura, it is because I love her. She deserves a spouse who will actually put in the time to treat her like the hero she is.

Misa Amane

she gets treated in-canon the way fandoms treat female characters that Threaten an m/m ship. it's like, "oh why don't you go sit in the corner and be pretty, misa, while the Men have intelligent conversation and pretend they aren't ten seconds from fucking each other, doesn't that sound nice?" it's infuriating. and MAYBE it's better now but i remember her getting treated the same way in fanfiction too, like we all need to do just as badly by our female secondary characters as fucking tsugumi ohba, but with the added insult of making her be alternately oblivious of the relationship between light and L or actively trying to sabotage it—incompetently, of course, because god forbid misa be allowed dignity or moments of cleverness.

she's one of the first characters I think of when I consider old school fandom misogyny. The annoying bitch and clingy crazy gf allegations were AFTER HER ASS. She's also a lot more intelligent than people gave her credit for, but most seem inclined to take the Very Biased word of our unreliable, narcissistic narrator and his homoerotic arch nemesis and claim that just because she's bubbly and into romance that she's also a complete moron. Which is blatantly untrue. Everyone was afraid of Misa girlbossing too hard. Killing people and devoting yourself to the deranged twink of your dreams even though you know he'll never love you back??? Having a hardcore goth aesthetic and being so Hot even literal Death Gods are into you?? God forbid women do ANYTHING!

Not only is she the victim of yaoi culture, she is the victim of early 2000s misogyny by an author that wanted to introduce a girl character because he knew his male rivals were getting too homoerotic. She is a goth bimbo icon who portrays what I think is one of the few callouts for stan culture and what parasocial relationships can do to both the stan and the idol. The fact that she is a toxic fan of Kira and also hot, funny, sociable is tragic in its own way, which I think the author did try to touch on but was too misogynistic too really get through. Of course, she was reduced to villain status by the fandom and anime alike because she got in the way of the supposed romance in their psychological horror anime

[muffinlance]

Wait, what’s going on with Embers???? That fic has been on my read later list since 2021, what’s happened with it???

Brief overview, then I'm likely never touching this topic again, because this is not a Drama Blog:

Context: Embers is a super old AtLA fic that was written during the early fandom days, read widely at the time, and was the origin of the widely-used fanon name of "Wani" for Zuko's ship (kind of by default that it was one of the first popular fics to give his ship a name, I think?), even though most fic writers don't seem to realize it's from there anymore.

"What's Going On": I used to include a link in all my stories to it, because I believe in crediting other writers for borrowed elements, and I was using "Wani" in all my fics. But BOY did I not want to be sending readers that way anymore, so I've adopted a new name for Zuko's ship, and removed all Embers links.

None of the criticisms about Embers itself are new; I'm assuming they date back to when the fic was being written, because this isn't an "it aged badly" thing, this is an "actually yeah this gets worse the longer you think about it and I shouldn't have ignored my bad feelings just because some of the worldbuilding was interesting" thing.

An Incomplete List of Why I Made the Change:

I don't actually like the story that much anymore, and don't want to rec it

I tried to re-read it recently to see if some things were as bad as I remembered and it turns out they were So Much Worse Oh Yikes. More specifically, the treatment of Katara and Aang and their respective cultures has... rather a lot going on. One example: The Fire Nation and Air Nomads are both given multiple backstory elements in an attempt to make the average Fire Nation soldier's participation in the genocide/war in large part the fault of the Avatar and the Air Nomads themselves, and also fully justified from the Fire Nation perspective. And I do mean fully. One of its core tenants is "People from the Fire Nation (and only people from the Fire Nation) who don't follow orders Literally Die, therefore murdering pacifists and babies and continuing the war (and their regularly scheduled war crimes) is the only thing it is physically possible for them to do". I cannot emphasize enough how literal that is.

Also the name "Wani" means "Alligator" and is... objectively a pretty lame name for Zuko's ship? Where's the personality, where's the deeper meaning, where's the resonance with Zuko's themes? @tuktukpodfics initially thought I was calling the ship "Wanyi", and that's what I've switched to, because it is Objectively So Much Better. In their words: “Wànyī (萬一): Literally ‘one in ten thousand,’ ‘perchance.’ Used grammatically in Chinese to mean ‘what if’ or ‘just in case.’ I think a ship called ‘The Perchance’ is perfect for a boy clinging to false hope.”

TL:DR; I don't rec Embers anymore, because I don't actually like the story anymore, and there are things about it that get worse the more I think on them. I've removed links to it and renamed Zuko's ship to "Wanyi" ("The Perchance") because our boy deserves a ship name that reflects his character arc.

[dadattebayo]

So today I bumped on this post and wanted to share some thoughts on the subject, but the account I reblogged it from seems to be off now so I lost my post and no one sees it. Still want to keep it, so...

Sorry, with all respect, but I just don’t get it. Like … WHY should we stop asking them about the thing they actually play? What exactly so bad happens to them if we do? By the thing I mean Haladriel as a ship. They play it. Literally.

Come one, it's obvious the show itself launched the ship. Intentionally, using all classic cinematic tools to make the exact romantic subtext visible to the audience (like gestures, poses, camera angles, looks eyes to eyes, sensual whisper) so we could definitely read it as romantic even if they refuse to confirm it openly. (Due to the possible unhinged reaction of the lorebros, I’m sure) So basically the show implied romance between them from the beginning, and now since they are stepping back, we just have to be ashamed to ask questions? Surely the actors give more interviews then the showrunners, because they are the faces of the characters, their representatives, they could give you the insight no one else could give since they play it and are the most involved in their personalities and emotions. They should be able to explain their motives and thoughts. This is how the acting craft works, they must FEEL the character. This is why for fans, hearing actors discuss a ship is like hearing the characters discuss their own feelings.

See what I mean? Typical romantic cinematic hint.

So again why shouldn't we ask them? why not let the actors talk about their interpretation? Miriel and Elendil's actors shouldn't be asked about them too, or it only concerns Morfydd and Charlie for some reason?

For god sake we all know the ship is doomed, there will be no future, but still the show revolves around them, even in the end of s2 he still mentioned she's his queen. But there was not enough interaction, mostly ambiguous one that we have to explain and develop ourselves, so why should we be deprived as well of their vision and of any extra detail we would like to know from the first hands? | don't feel like it.

And I think people just need to stop decide for the actors how they feel and being overprotective over literally nothing. Shipping is a part of any fan culture. And the actors are not made of glass, they actually are even supposed to speak out. Once again: the show presented and developed the ship. The actors play the characters of this ship. They play the feelings we all see. They are aware of the subtext. They do not feel ashamed to play it. They are not ashamed to play those characters. So we don't have to be ashamed to want to know more about what they play, what they mean and what is their vision on it. There is no harm being caused.

I actually miss good all days when the actors were not considered this sensitive. like for example during the promotion of the X-MEN both Mcavoy and Fassbender got unstoppably asked like million questions about their MAGNETO/XAVIER (Cherik) ship, they were shown fanarts and fanfics, even the explicit ones, they even had to read out loud some about themselves (yeah-yeah, not their characters, but specifically real-person ship aka FassAvoy). No one got offended. One can say they even encouraged it. Homosexual ship. McAvoy was married at that time. Still they were goofing around, touching each other and hugging all the time, talking about their character bromance and generally spreading fanservice all over the fandom. They were having fun alongside with the fans. This was gold.

By the way the same story with their characters: they are a protagonist and a villain , two opposites with sort of cosmic connection, they just won’t let each other go peacefully. There is love, hate, friendship, rivalry and pain. Some fans see them as a friends/foes, shippers like me see them as lovers. This ship is giant, and thank for the actors interaction and involvement into the fandom it just got deeper and much more exciting.

Highly recommended to explore.

Remind you of something? 🙃

[olderthannetfic]

"Why I don't write F/F" thread proceeded just as unproductively as I expected. It wasn't about moralizing about the women not writing F/F, it was a question about why personal reasons for avoiding a configuration aren't reflected in opposite directions by other groups. Unlike race, gender has an almost 50/50 split, there's a scale to the proportions not there for other types of identity category. "The femslash police suck" is a factor I can understand. But why wouldn't "personal reasons I just don't feel it towards this configuration" end up an even distribution across the population? The expectation for women to write about women isn't a moral rule, it's that if you allow the logic "men in control of stories write about men (and that's why more mainstream stories center men)", then the flip side is, well, why people clamor for more women behind the camera and in the writers' room. Either accept the logic for both sides or challenge it for both sides. Instead we have the worst of both worlds, we accept it for one side and challenge it for the other. Where's the parallel universe where this imbalance somehow resulted in a different quadrant being the smallest proportion of ships?

--

Why wouldn't "personal reasons" be even? Because the kinds of issues people face based on their demographic aren't.

But I think the larger factor is how socialization affects choice of hobbies and volunteer efforts. Cis men and cis women, on average, go in for different flavors. The dudes tend to be more bothered by the idea of "not getting anything back" for what feels like work. When they do do unpaid labor, it's often the kind that accrues glory and career prospects rather than less showy social ties. Open source coding projects where they can be important, yes. Writing fanfic, no.

Looking up any analysis of volunteering and unpaid work that makes such-and-such a part of society function will get you a lot of discussion of this gendered difference. It's pervasive.

Of course, this is just a broad trend. Plenty of guys do write fanfic, and when they dominate a fanfic space, we see tons of fic focused on the female characters they find attractive, including f/f fic.

And if you're asking about cis gay men specifically... well... again, gendered socialization means that the issues faced by cis lesbians and cis gay men are not equivalent. The reasons and ways that people employ allegory to talk about things "too close to home" will likewise not be exactly the same. Traditional US gay male culture goes in for drag and for an obsession with Hollywood divas and The Golden Girls. Plenty is being mediated through female personas; it's just not translating into fanfic specifically. But most people making "Leave the fujoshi alone" arguments are not thinking about cis gays: they're thinking about people in messier identity categories.

The biggest difference is not behavior but simply that cis men are a small minority on FFN, AO3, and Wattpad, the three big fanfic archives. (Some ancient FFN research found that it was 78% female, and that's the archive known for having more men!) The places with more cis guys are much smaller and don't get talked about as much by most fandom history and fandom meta types from the AO3 side of things.

The reason cis men's taste in favorite characters isn't being "pushed back against" isn't a double standard: it's because:

Cis men simply aren't that relevant to site-wide trends on AO3

and

2. The reverse pattern does happen all the time with vanishingly little m/m and lots of f/f

You sound like you think we'd make this fanfic-specific argument about pro media. In fact, plenty of queer women are open that they produce original f/f but not f/f fanfic or they produce f/f fanworks but not fic. A lot of the "too close to home" arguments are specifically about the kind of id fuel, naked-in-public vibes of AO3-style fanfic. Writing that is less id-driven may not feel that same way. A given woman might have a much easier time writing a mystery novel about a lesbian detective who never gets laid on page than a steamy f/f bodice ripper.

The parallel universe you ask about exists. It's horny imageboards full of fan art of anime girls.

The reason you sound judgmental and are getting "unproductive" responses is that you're phrasing things as though we're refusing to solve a problem. In reality, we're attempting to analyze the situation that exists. It's a descriptive approach.

[jikookuntold]

Jikook and the Untold Narratives

As a hardcore Jikooker who deep-dives into everything related to Jikook, I always have different ideas, theories, and analyses in my mind. But most of the time, I hesitate to contextualize them, develop them into actual essays, and share them in this blog. This post you are about to read was an almost a one-year-old topic running in my head, but I wasn’t sure about writing it until the Bangtan episode for D-Day Seoul concerts came out a few weeks ago, but as a professional procrastinator, it took me this long to write. According to the title this was supposed to be about the narratives related to Jikook, and I tried rooting and analyzing them, but somehow, it turned out mostly as a long rant about hypocrisy and misunderstandings in this fandom. Anyway, these are only my opinions and observations, and I don't claim to be 100% right. I hope you enjoy reading this post.

The Narratives

What do I mean by the narratives? Are there any narratives related to Jikook? Why did I even decide to write about this? Well, at some point I noticed that we, as Jikookers, have always been blamed for falling for "company narratives". It is widely said and believed by Jikook antis that the company wants to represent Jikook as the "couple/ very close and special duo" in BTS to the point that they call the Jikook ship the creation of Bang PD himself. A specific group of antis believe this is for hiding their real relationships, and the rest of them think it's just for fanservice. They think we are fools to fall for it because if Jikook were a real gay couple, they would hide it from us because of homophobia.

I know this is literally a conspiracy theory made by them, but conspiracy theories are also theories, and like any other theory, they have to be based on some external evidence. So, where is the evidence that leads antis to the conspiracy theory of Jikook being the “company couple”? Antis believe everything Jikookers get as moments, is company content, and this content is designed, faked, and manipulated to make us believe Jikook are a couple, and based on their logic, believing the things we see instead of their conspiracy theories means that we have fallen for company narratives. I can’t deny the fact that we get lots of Jikook moments from official content, but this applies to every other duo, not just Jikook. Then what is so special about Jikook that makes antis believe there is a narrative being pushed?

The answer is the nature of the Jikook moments we get. Some of the interactions between Jimin and JK are nothing like the interactions between the other members. The high dosage of couple behavior in these interactions is not justifiable with common excuses like Korean culture, flirty friends, or even KPop fanservice. Therefore, antis need to make up another excuse, which is the conspiracy theory of the company narrative. This narrative contradicts the principle of “Gays have to hide because homophobia, duh!” which their theory is based on. Also shipping culture in other boybands always insisted on the company and management hiding the gay relationship, not pushing it. And this is another thing that makes Jikook different and special.

Let’s deep dive into this contradictive narrative. Being the company couple doesn’t stop in the company narrative and spreads much further. Let’s imagine Jikook is the official couple that the company is investing in, to make fans and the general public believe they are special and gain more money from the narrative. Then the media should follow this agenda and use them together for headlines and clicks. Then fans also have to go with the flow and make their sub-narratives aligned with this agenda. But does any of this happen in reality? The following parts of this post is going to be a long answer to this question.

Company Narratives

Does BigHit/Hybe use Jikook? pairs the two of them together more than others? encourages them to behave in a certain way? includes more interactions of them in the official content intentionally? In order to answer these questions, we need to overview the official content provided by the company. First I have to clarify that not all the official content has the same weight in this examination, and we can classify them into different categories regarding the prevalence and accessibility to the public.

The first category can be called the public content. This type of content is usually free and accessible to everyone online with just a few clicks. These are the things you get when you type the names of the BTS members or songs in a Google search, like official MVs, Bangtan episodes, Run BTS, or live performance videos, that introduced most of us to the Bangtan world. The other category is a part of the main content that is mostly not for free, like documentaries, travel shows, Army zip content, seasonal packages, etc. This content is accessible in its original form to a big group of fans who can afford to pay or know their ways to pirate.

The last category is the content that not all the fans consume despite being officially released, even a big group of them are not aware that this content exists. This group of content might be free or paid, like Behind-the-scenes episodes of the main shows, official DVDs of the concerts, and memories of each year. They are like the leftovers of the main content that for some reason, didn’t end up in the public or main content, and only the dedicated fans or chronically online ones originally consume them.

Disclaimer: This classification was all done by me, and it’s not claimed to be official or accurate. Feel free to disagree and have your own categorization and conclusion. But what is the point of this classification? As I admitted earlier in this post, we get lots of Jikook interactions in official content released by BigHit/Hybe, same as the unofficial content like Vlives/Weverse, social media posts, livestreams, or fancams from concerts or award shows, which gave us so many incredible and unforgettable Jikook moments while they were not released by the company, but my focus is on the official content and how it’s connected to the narrative of comply couple.

If you pay attention to the ship moments, you will notice that they are not equally distributed in the different categories of content I named above. In the first category AKA, the public content, Jikook moments are not much dominant, and all the ships and duos pretty much equally have their moments overall. The second category is almost the same as the first one, maybe the Jikook moments in these two categories still feel more couply and spicy compared to the others but they are still balanced because the editors usually push the extra moments to the last category.

The last category which we can call as “leftovers” is where we get the most of the eyebrow raising moments of the original content, like almost kiss or hickey. It's the content all the extra Jikook moments that had to be cut out of the main content for balancing things up, end up there, and it’s the content not all the fans follow because a big portion of this fandom is not chronically online and do not have stan Twitter/X accounts or care about Twitter trends.  For me, the best example here is the second season of ITS and how all the organic Jikook interactions were pushed to the behind-the-scenes episode with viewers one-third of the main episodes. This doesn’t mean that the main episodes of ITS2 have no Jikook moments, they do, but not more than Taekook or VMin or Jihope, thanks to the modifications done by editors.

So, based on this analysis, can we say there is a narrative going on? I leave the conclusion to you, but I think there is no narrative here other than showing some fun interactions and closeness between the members. They have more of the Jimin and JK interaction moments because Jikook happen to spend more time together and interact more, and these interactions sometimes cross the platonic line regarding the nature of their relationship. I believe if BigHit wanted to palm Jikook off as a couple to the public, they wouldn’t push their couply moments into the content that the vast majority of fans don’t even know about.

Another thing we should keep in mind is that the leftover content is the most organic one, and unlike most of the moments from public or main content (for example the Run BTS episodes or Bon Voyages), there is no script involved. It’s just how members naturally interact and cameras happen to be there to film them. I’m not saying the first two categories are fake. In fact, I believe the majority of the BTS content we get is authentic, and even when there are scripts involved, it’s based on the natural dynamics between the members. If you have been following the members and listened to them carefully in the past decade, you know they are never being forced to do things together against their will, at least not after their rookie era.

Antis also bring up another argument to prove their conspiracy theory, and it is the argument that “Jikook have been paired together a lot”. I don’t have access to any reliable statistical information to confirm that Jikook had the most pairings between the BTS members, but if someone makes this claim, I can partially agree with them. This might not apply in all the eras of Bangtan group activities, but overall, this can be considered as a fact, and it has a simple explanation; Jikook get paired together a lot because they are the main/lead duo, and their vocals match very well, and they can work in sync and communicate perfectly. When a duo can do the job with great chemistry, without wasting time and energy for syncing and communicating, why the company has to give it to any other duo in the group? This is how things work in the entertainment industry, and there are no narratives and forces needed to be involved.

This is mostly about the vocal and dance projects or photoshoots Jikook have done together several times, and there have been no other examples except the potential travel show we know they filmed in 2023 that made antis stand on their conspiracy theory even stronger than before. First of all, we don’t know how and when this travel show will be aired and what agenda it will follow. Will it be this year or the next year? Will it be a whole series or just a 30-minute Bangtan episode? We know nothing until we get an update on it. We are not even sure if they traveled just for the show or if it was an excuse for Jikook to travel before their enlistment. I recommend you to read this post about an interesting theory on the travel show.

Okay, now let’s talk about the other narratives related to Jikook, the ones that were not conspiracy theories and were actually planned by the company. BigHit, as an entertainment label, debuted BTS with a narrative, and Jimin and JK, as the members and a duo, had their designated roles. At first, Jimin got the role of the macho man in the group who had to go through a physical transformation because of it. Fortunately, this harsh role changed after some time, and Jimin got a new narrative. This time, he was the awkward member who became the punchline of the jokes by losing every game, the member who got rejected several times and wasn’t supposed to debut at all.

These parts of the narrative were far from the real Jimin, but some parts were close to his real personality like he is the sweetest member, a hug and gift fairy who is there for the others. But even these positive features were misused and turned Jimin into a cheerleader and outcast who might get “left out by the heartless" bandmates he loves and supports. You may say I’m exaggerating, but these narratives are still going on to this day and feed his antis. These narratives were one of the main reasons Jimin’s successful self-made solo debut became a hard pill to swallow for the majority of fans ad even the company because they expected this triumph from any vocal line member other than Jimin.

As I said earlier, Jikook as a duo also had their narrative since their debut. This narrative was technically a roleplaying between them; Jimin was assigned to show one-sided affection to JK on camera, and JK’s role was to reject Jimin and rank him as the least handsome member. This narrative went on for some time until it stopped around 2014/2015, but the damage was already done. Some people might question this one-sided affection being a narrative by BigHit. I’m sorry, but if you think a teenage rookie idol in KPop can show real affection in public to his same-sex bandmate, the joke is on you. I know most fans believed this roleplaying, and that was where everything went wrong.

Antis may say this narrative by itself "birthed the Jikookers breed", while it did the opposite. Despite this narrative being over for years, its aftermath is still visible in the fandom, and even dramatic Jikookers use it for their “fell first, fell harder” agenda, which I find really toxic and damaging. Other than portraying JK as a mean and insensitive kid, this roleplaying with the help of the narrative of awkward Jimin, turned Jikook into something unacceptable and even cringe-worthy because “how could JK even like Jimin when he hated and rejected him for years? because Jimin is not likable and makes JK uncomfortable”. It’s ironic, but the antis who keep repeating these lies, are in fact the ones who fall for the company narratives.

If Hybe wanted to push the narrative of Jikook being in a relationship, why did they pick such an unusual approach that backfired, and turned fans against them, and drawn them to the other ships? Hybe not only doesn’t promote Jikook more than other duos but also stops them from becoming mainstream by pushing their moments to the content no one sees. Maybe this is their way of gatekeeping and protecting Jikook which I appreciate, but it’s time for this fandom to realize that Jikook has nothing to do with the company narrative, and in fact it’s the opposite.

For example, in one of the recent Bangtan episodes (public content), when JK was resting backstage at his music show, and Tae came to visit, according to the Weverse live JK had before the show, we knew they cut the part where he said “Army” was looking for his whereabouts because otherwise, it would look like he doesn’t care where he was. But in the other Bangtan episode, they didn’t hesitate to keep the part where Jimin sounded like being left out, meanwhile, we knew all of them were headed to the same destination to celebrate Yoongi’s last concert. because that’s the narrative they push, the narrative of Jimin being left alone and Jikook having nothing to do with each other.

If Jikook were the company couple, they would have sat down together to announce their ship name for the official content. If Jikook were the company couple, Hybe would not cut out their moments, and we would have gotten some content from their numerous rendezvouses during the SYS tour in the US and Europe, but we got nothing, not even for the leftover content. If Jikook were the company couple, Hybe would not released their buddy system announcement only in the Korean version of the statement. If Jikook were the company couple, the GCF videos that had started with Jimin, would have been kept that way, and wouldn’t be turned into ot7 videos. If they can’t force JK, then nothing is forced.

If Jikook were the company couple, they would not plan Yoonmin/Taekook's solo debuts at the same time to make them appear in the same promotional activities and namedrop each other. This doesn’t mean Yoonmin/Taekook are the company couple, in fact, the dumbest question is "Jikook or Taekook?" The whole point is, that there was never a ship agenda, they never tried to push any ship as the real one to the general public or common fans. But their bonds have been used a lot for clicks and clout, and as a Jikooker I am confident enough to say I was not the one falling for any narratives or mediaplay by the company or media.

Media and Jikook

It’s a known fact that all different forms of media earn money from public attention, this is what keeps them going on. I said earlier, that if Jikook were the company couple, and Hybe intended to promote them as the official duo, then the media wouldn’t lose this opportunity to chase the clout because in that case, they would have the permission to follow this agenda and use the duo for headlines and clicks, but in reality this doesn’t happen to Jikook.

I’m not saying that Jikook don’t get any media coverage, they do. The media inside or outside Korea make headlines for their duo activities like the Black Swan dance or vocal collaborations, but there are many examples that Jikook didn’t make it to the headlines while another duo did in a very similar situation. I bring an example from Dispatch that everyone knows has the closest connection to Hybe; when Jimin posted the shirtless photo of them together for JK’s birthday, this media didn’t make any headlines for it, not even as the announcement of Jimin greeting JK's birthday.

But when Tae posted the screenshot of his video call with JK the night before his enlistment, while they were both shirtless, it became a headline on the Dispatch website. If you check the Dispatch website for 2023, you will not find anything about Jikook other than their departure and arrival together for the Japan trip, even their trip together in NY was not worthy news for this outlet. Also their joint enlistment in the military, despite being the first and only case of Buddy System in the KPop industry, didn’t get much media attention or specific headlines.

Jikook have never attended any event as a duo, they never had a photocall together as a duo, and since they have never made an official name for themselves, the media can't use a duo name for them. Meanwhile, they can use “Taekook” for the Tae and JK duo in their headlines and tags because the company has permitted by making this duo name official. As I mentioned earlier, I do not believe that Taekook or any other ship is the official one, but the audacity of antis to ignore these facts and label Jikook as the company couple is just ironic.

I’m not really interested in giving examples from Taekook, but I have no other option. Everyone remembers the premiere night of the movie “Dreamers” in April last year when Tae and JK attended together and had their photocall moment. Like any other movie premiere with big stars, this event also was covered by the media, but they got the biggest attention and social media engagement because of Taekook appearing together. Even though the reports of JK being shy and having a feminine haircut caused Taekookers to think they were being announced as a couple lol, in general, it was a pleasant moment until it wasn’t anymore.

A few months later, in August, a similar event was about to happen, and the media announced that Tae was going to attend his friend’s new movie premiere along with JK. As expected, a big wave of social media engagement started, but JK didn’t show up. I don’t know if he never intended to go or if he changed his mind just before the event because according to Dispatch, his name was in the guest list. All we know is that he logged into the Bangtan official Twitter account after years and posted some random photos just an hour before the event and logged out.

After that embarrassing moment for the media, I was expecting them to stop using Taekook for mediaplay, but they didn’t stop, and again in November, the media outlets reported that Tae would attend JK’s solo concert while we knew he was busy recording his Running Man episode the same day. I’m sure the media knew it better, but chasing the clout was their priority. There are many other examples of how media doesn’t work in favor of the “company couple narrative” for Jikook, but I will stop here because this post is getting too long.

Fandom Agendas

When there is a successful narrative launched by an entertainment label, the fandoms go with the flow, and alongside accepting the main narrative they make their own sub-narratives aligned with this agenda. But in the case of Jikook, this is far from the truth. When I say fans, I mean the collective representation of a group supporting an artist, something non-fans see from the outside, not just a focus group. Yes, we Jikookers exist but we don’t represent or control this fandom. According to some unofficial polls, we are not even between the top three of the biggest groups of shippers. So, it’s safe to say the so called narrative of Jikook has not been successful. 

It’s not a secret that this fandom is against Jikook, but the discussion doesn’t end here. The sub-narratives made in the fandom have their own story. This opposition with Jikook contradicted their observations of them being close and always together, and they had to make the sub-narrative to justify it. But since they had already accepted another narrative made by BigHit, it wasn't a hard one. They decided that "Every interaction between Jikook is initiated by Jimin because he has always been in love with JK, and anything JK does is forced because he has always been uncomfortable with Jimin." This narrative and its sub-narratives caused Jimin to be labeled as the intruder and much worse names I will not mention, and it caused him to get so much hate, especially after every interaction he has with JK. It's true that he has the biggest fandom and the most devoted and supportive fans, but his anti-fans are also the biggest and the vilest ones.

JK also had his sub-narrative made by fans, and according to the vast majority of them, he is a straight playboy. I don't know where this sub-narrative comes from, maybe confessing to having a girlfriend as a teen or naming himself the "international playboy" did it for fans and made them ignore all the queerness in his personality and behavior, but this is the reason this fandom treats his "dating rumors" very differently even by his gay shippers. Army joke and say he is scared of girls, but they never make stories up about him being uninterested in women like they did for others (for example: an influencer asked Tae for his phone number, and he gave his manager's number, 100% fictional, but vastly believed as fact).

It’s actually quite funny when we see a local Youtuber is able to guess Jikook are the closest just by watching a few minutes of content, but the fans who have been here for a decade can’t and don’t want to see it, they can’t even let go of the 2013 jokes of “JK hates Jimin”, let alone accepting that they are close. They do any mental gymnastics they can to normalize, delegitimize, or ot7ify Jikook moments, meanwhile, when JK and Tae, themselves talk about drifting apart, fans dismiss it and call it fake. For example, last year, when Jikook were in Tokyo, JK was seen leaving the location of his shooting, which was a hotel different from the hotel where Jimin was staying, antis said: “They hate each other, to the point they can’t stay at the same hotel”. While a trip would have been solid proof for any duo in BTS to be close and in love, for Jikook, it becomes the reason for being distant and despising each other, and this is the hypocrisy of our fandom.

Maybe we get lots of Jikook from official content, it’s the outcome of Jikook’s closeness, but in the end, it’s Jikook themselves who confirm it with their behavior. When antis were celebrating Jikook not interacting, amid their lack of public appearance, it was JK who showed his love and support for Jimin by streaming his videos on YouTube. When antis claimed they don’t spend time together, it was JK who begged Jimin in his half-naked live to join him. He went live at his place right after the movie premiere, and musical theater, and explained the situation after Vhope did a live there. He explained Tae's claims about recording Layover at his place and talked about his delightful alone time when he was at the ski resort with Tae and his friends. He read JeonJimin comment out loud and announced that he wouldn’t stop holding Jimin. Maybe an older example is his post on Weverse right after the 2020 Taekook live apologizing for not talking much, and then a month later, when he went live with Jimin, he made it clear that he had a great time just doing the live.

These examples are countless, but there is no hope for the fans who even label the moments from unofficial content like lives and posts as planned or even forced by the company. If you think antis will let us have a happy day and enjoy the legit Jikook moments, you are mistaken. If there is Jikook, they always find a way to ruin it with their toxicity, and if there’s no Jikook, they use it to hurt us and spread their lies and fake moments on every social media platform.

Antis have the upper hand in social media because Hybe failed the so-called Jikook narrative, and it not just didn’t become the mainstream ship of Bangtan, but also fans turned against it. Despite this failure, Jikook still bothers antis so much, and they try hard to fight it and its shippers, but these fights and attacks are limited to social media. Whatever they do on social media, the hashtags they trend, the lies and hateful tweets and comments they leave out, are not gonna affect what Jikook have in real life because Jikook are real people, and against all the odds and real struggles, they are together and closer than ever.

[shaunashipman]

Why do certain buddie shippers feel the need to justify their hatred for Tommy by turning it into a "moral" issue. "He's racist and a misogynist" when he clearly isnt?? Obviously he was at one point but the show has made a point of showing that he's made his amends (and is not that person anymore) and is on good terms with everyone. We didn't see it on screen because Tommy's a side character. Like is hating Tommy simply because he's with Buck childish? Yes, but I would respect them a lot more if they just owned up to why they really hated Tommy instead of coming up with some fake moral justification for it. Not to mention I highly doubt anyone would call Tommy bigoted if he wasn't Buck's love interest.

so this is not actually specific to buddies or the 911 fandom. it's purity culture. no one is allowed to just dislike anything anymore, you need a Reason™ that the thing you like is morally wrong and bad, and other people are bad for liking it.

but specifically re: bucktommy, it's also because they see tommy as a threat to their ship going canon. like I said in a previous post, they think people showing support of tommy and bucktommy will "give tim and abc the wrong idea" and keep him, which means they can't get buddie. so they need to sway people against bucktommy in order to "send a message" to the show, and admitting that they just don't vibe with him cause they have a different ship isn't going to get people on their side. so they lie and say he's racist and treats buck bad and isn't actually interested in buck.

but it's not working, as evidenced by the overwhelmingly positive response to the pride post. unfortunately, said positive response just makes them double down harder

[beatrice-otter]

completely unsurprising to see you out here whipping up a harassment committee to try and force the otw to let you harass people on AO3 into deleting fics for ships you don't like. don't you have anything better to do, you ridiculous anti?

This is the sort of thing you get as a white person when you try and point out racism in fandom. Imagine how much worse it is for people of color, especially Black people.

But also, let's note the irony here.

There is a long and extremely well-documented pattern of racism in fandom, and fans of color being harassed by white fans, that goes back ... pretty much as long as fandom has existed. For a lot of fans of color, they have exactly two choices: they can swallow down all the racism (from microaggressions to major in-your-face aggression) and allow it to continue ... or they can point it out as a problem. In which case white supremacists in fandom will try to destroy their lives for daring to challenge them.

AO3 is not the primary place where such harassment happens (because communication between people is so limited), but it does happen, and AO3 has historically been really really bad about dealing with such harassment when it gets pointed out to them. AO3 was founded by a majority-white group, and they had a massive blind spot about fandom racism. AO3 has historically not made any distinction between "this fic is about a harmless kink that someone got offended by, but this other fic is active and targeted harassment designed to hurt people." These two things are not the same, and shouldn't be treated the same.

In 2020, AO3 admitted that they had a problem, and announced that they were going to change some things to do better. Those things included practical tools like muting and blocking (which they have since rolled out the first stages of). The promised changes also included things like hiring a diversity consultant to help them figure out what of their organizational culture and policies should change, and looking at the Terms of Service and abuse policies to see what could/should be changed.

AO3 put out the practical tools, but has not addressed any of the other things they admitted were wrong.

A bunch of people think that AO3 should keep their word and want to know what they've done in the last three years. Notably, that is the extent of the pressure. @end-otw-racism has explicitly said multiple times that they are not advocating for any specific policy, whether censorship or banning people from AO3 or any other, they just want to know what AO3 has spent the last three years doing, and what conclusions they've drawn, and what their plans might be going forward.

I reblogged their posts a couple of times, and made one (1) post that had a summary of why this is an issue, with links to a couple of other people who had done much deeper dives into the issue of fandom racism and racism on AO3 specifically. In that post, one person was referenced (but not named) with a link to some discussion of things that they had done. This person was referenced solely as an example of why the policies and procedures needed to be looked at, because they were in charge when those policies got written. I included no details about them or what they had done, and certainly nothing saying people should go harass them; I just linked to enough information for people to decide for themselves if that was a person whose judgment they trusted to come up with fair policies. And said, "hey, it's messed up that people get harassed over this, if fandom were less racist and if AO3 had better abuse policies, fewer people would be harassed."

You come into my inbox on anon to harass me with all sorts of blatantly and obviously untrue things (including that I'm trying to stir up a hate mob to harass people), for daring to say "hey, there's a racism problem, we should do something about that."

Thank you for proving my point! My entire point was that there is a racism problem in fandom, and racists harass people who dare to talk about it, and you showed up immediately to harass me!

If anybody is wondering why the lovely folks behind @end-otw-racism haven't linked their fannish pseuds to the blog pushing for accountability, nonny here is why. If one post brings people out of the woodwork like this, imagine what organizing the effort would do.

But also, if you're wondering "well, nonny has a point, why did you link to a place where someone could learn the name of the person you're accusing of racism if you didn't want to harass them?" here's why:

When people in fandom talk about racism and don't specifically name names and link to publicly available facts, there is a wave of people who don't believe, many publicly. "If that were true, I would have seen it!" (you didn't want to see it and/or your whiteness insulated you from it.) "If that were true, they wouldn't have vagueblogged, they'd have named names!" And then people harass you for stirring up trouble when there's no proof of anything wrong. If, on the other hand, you do name names and link to publicly available facts, you get a wave of people like nonny here claiming that pointing out racism is the same as harassing the people who said/did the racist thing. There is nothing you can do (short of being silent) that will prevent people from harassing you. But if you do name names and post links, then at least some of the people who follow those links will go "hey, you're right, that is messed up."

On the subject of censorship, it's important to remember that there's a difference between free speech (which usually doesn't harm actual people or incite harm and should be protected even if you don't like it or find it gross) and hate speech (which is harmful to actual real people and thus should not always automatically be protected). The people most invested in calling it censorship when you reject/limit hate speech, and making hate speech have exactly the same protections as other expressions of free speech which do no harm, are racists and fascists.

But I also want to talk about the irony of you calling me an anti. Because that's the thing that tipped your harassment attempt from annoying to funny (as someone who rarely receives hate).

Antis are "anti-shippers," (aka "feelings yakuzas"). When they see something they don't like in fandom, they want to stop it and drive the people out of fandom who do it. But they know that if they name accurately the thing they don't like, the vast majority of people will not support them. Usually because the thing in question is harmless. So in order to get people on their side, they do two things. First, they find a way to twist the thing they don't like until they can conflate it with something that is harmful (like pedophilia). Second, they take that harmful thing and accuse anybody who disagrees with them of being that thing. So, if you don't agree that shipping a 17 year old and an 18 year old is wrong, you're a pedophile, and they are perfectly justified in harassing you and spreading lies about you because they are saving children from a pedophile.

As for whether I am an anti, a cursory search through my blog will reveal regular and frequent reblogs of stuff about how absurd and harmful anti rhetoric is, and why censorship is bad. And why people can ship whatever they want regardless of whether I personally like it.

You saw something you didn't like (a request for accountability for how AO3 is working towards anti-racist policies). You knew that if you honestly named what I was doing, people would not agree with you that it was bad. So you twisted that into something else that is harmful (a call for harassment and censorship of people who shipped things I don't like and being an anti). Then you used that as an excuse to harass me.

It is exactly the anti playbook. Step By Step.

You, kiddo, are the one using anti tactics.

[theshadowsingersraven]

this nyxlin drama lowkey reminds me of the time a zutara artist was run off tumblr because they drew aged up katara/zuko romantically, but I think it was actually angry kataang’s or e/riel’s -because they also drew gwynriel and e/riel’s were jealous- who were stirring up shit 😭

That would honestly make a lot of sense for how/why I didn't see many posts from them or overall in the Nyxlin tag when I was catching up on what happened. Pretty much every person (notably largely Elriels) who supported Elain Week's censorship got an insta-block from me if they weren't already. And I'm sure a decent amount of people blocked me from my stance on Elaingate, Rhys Week, and Nyxlin Week.

And good! You should block me. Seriously. Art has the right to be celebrated and appreciated, especially in the circumstances designed to do that for a specific character and dynamic! Character appreciation and celebration will never look the same to everyone, and just because it's not what you enjoy doesn't mean it stops being appreciative or celebratory. If you can't grasp that, you don't deserve access to my art anyway. You certainly don't deserve to be in my space, that's for damn sure. Kindly, get out.

Honestly, it kind of makes sense considering the overlap of canon rigidity, purity culture, and morality policing of fiction coming from sides of the fandom that generally can't accept criticism about their faves, or even things that go against what they want for their faves. They are terrified of creativity that doesn't give them what they want and it shows. It's the most Evangelical-ass shit ever, and it's fucking weird.

Like...for all intents and purposes, Nyx is an OC in any works that feature him. And I'd know, because I wrote an adult Nyx for my ongoing ACOTAR D&D campaign set 20 years after ACOSF. So yes, Nyx is twenty in my timeline, because it's writing and I can do what I want lol. I have no basis to write Nyx off of other than Rhys and Feyre. Which means...I'm still doing my own character-building to only less than I would for a completely new OC.

Let's compare, shall we?

Writing my OC Solara's backstory: Writing her parents from scratch ✔️ Writing her early childhood ✔️ Writing her trauma ✔️ Writing her adolescence and relationships ✔️ Writing her interests and adventures as she became an adult✔️ Writing her dynamic with her love interest and how she interacts with Prythian as a whole ✔️

Now obviously these are all at minimum influenced by/will be derivative of aspects of ACOTAR because, y'know, transformative works. But still, I made her.

Writing Nyx's backstory and how he is as a twenty-year-old adult: Writing his parents from scratch ❌ Writing his early childhood ✔️ Writing any trauma he might have ✔️ Writing his adolescence and relationships ✔️ Writing his interests and adventures as he became an adult ✔️ Writing his dynamic (collaboratively) with his love interest and how he interacts with Prythian as a whole ✔️

And this is a version of Nyx that I made. Yes, it's still influenced by canon, but if I put in 90% of the same effort to write him as an adult as I did a complete OC, we can acknowledge they're functionally the same.

It's not that people look at Baby!Nyx and instantly think he's perfect to be shipped with someone and there's something to be gleaned from canon about him in particular. We know nothing about Nyx as an individual. That applies to any Nyx ship.

The appeal, at least in my experience, to Nyx ships, including Nyxlin, is the dynamics at play around Nyx, i.e., his role as an eventual leader and powerful figure in the Night Court, the dynamics that affect Rhys and Feyre also extending to him, how the rest of Prythian/Illyria might view the first offspring of High Fae, Illyrian, and Made parents. It's about his circumstances, not him as a character because he is not a "character yet", he just exists!

People are just creative enough to consider those long-term effects on who he could become and how that interplays with other characters. I don't mean to be cruel, but genuinely, have these people never created an OC before? Have they never shipped anything outside of canon? Have they never read any fics featuring time travel, for example, as a plot point to get characters in the same era at the same time when otherwise the ship would not be able to happen? Are they that unfamiliar with making circumstances outside of SJM's canon to allow things to happen for fun?

Genuinely, the lack of creativity for all of us being in this for reading and writing is concerning.

Even just saying this and advocating for Nyxlin's right to be celebrated as well as Tamlin as a whole pretty much puts me in the position of having to tag this as pro-Tamlin. And I wouldn't even describe myself as anything other than Pro-Azriel and probably Pro-Nesta and Pro-Elain because I don't really dislike any characters. I'm equally as critical to all of them and if their good parts just sort of cancel out the bad or are only a bit outweighing one or the other...I don't actively dislike them, I'm just neutral about them.

But this fandom is so fucking polarized because of the toxicity and the Us v.s. Them, Morality Policing culture that's been festering, people can't even neutrally address something. People are harassed so quickly just for not understanding or being familiar with something, and then in the other court people do the harassing because they don't understand or aren't familiar with something the other party likes/dislikes. If don't utterly despise Tamlin, it's somehow considered supportive enough to qualify as "pro" to antis.

Too many people in this fanbase create this parasocial-adjacent attachment to these characters like they're real and have real feelings/boundaries that need to be protected. They are not! Characters can't be hurt by anything happening outside the narrative. Just because you personally do not like something/don't find it appealing or even find it discomforting does not mean it's morally objectionable. It's just not for you, and understanding that experiencing content not made for you is not an attack on you is kind of a necessary life skill.

This rant ended up way longer than I expected it to be, but anyway...y'all stay safe out there.

[dykedvonte]

wanted to say I appreciate your nuanced takes on MW and especially Curly. i don't get the claim that the fandom is full of Curly apologists when majority (esp yt and tiktok) say he's worse than Jimmy. Yes there's commentary about bro culture defending people, he def messed up in trying to placate Jimmy (tbh "we'll fix this" sounded more like trying to keep someone prone to outbursts like Jim calm and not hurt Anya/himself) but I don't think he did nothing to help Anya, since she continued to confide in him and he had less than a week to resolve it before the crash (I also don't get everyone saying he knew for ages when it seems like Anya told him that same week). I get Jimmy's a pos but saying stuff like Curly should've known he'd crash the ship or that Jim had a criminal record he ignored, reducing them to obviously horrible villain and willfully ignorant sidekick feels like a disservice to the game. If your best friend turned out to be horrible, what would you do in a confined space in the span of a few days to respond? I'd say some of the horror comes from trying to do good but ultimately failing, Curly's state after the crash is meant to be tragic horror not revenge/punishment

Thank you and this is what I want to get across.

A lot of information we have to supplement when it comes to how long things have been happening on this current ship. I think people try to add on to the horror and negligence by making things more obvious so it can feel like it was easier to avoid when, true to life, its not. Jimmy clearly didn't deserve or appreciate what Curly did for him in getting him the job, but do you think if Jimmy was that big of a menace on Earth he would've given him a position where he could have that level of power over people's lives? There's something in the fact he specifically chose to pick a position so close to himself where he could watch Jimmy.

I hate the bro code argument because that is a whole can of worms people really don't get. That sort of mentality is born from the general respect and preference of male matter over female ones. Curly is clearly not that guy, he is absent minded about the issue and inadvertently dismissive but he clearly believes Anya, he just can't understand what she's going through. It's an onslaught of information that no one really reacts right to. Additonally, the entire discussion of her assualt plays to heavy into the idea that there is fault outside of the perpertratior when it comes to SA. It's too close if she only did this or if Curly had protected her better but the fact of the matter is Jimmy did what he did. He did it before any of the conversations with Anya about it and it's why her behavior seemed to change so drastically in those last two days.

He has other conflicting thought and while his role as a Captain should've taken over, people act like it's not a very human thing to have such a toxic presence cloud your judgement. It is never easy to separate friend from coworker once that connection is formed, you want to help them, especially if they were friend first and for a long while like in this case. It's not right, but people act like it would be easy when the game clearly points out that no choice is easy to make, especially when you have to make it for more than one person. You have the weigh the consequences, look at all the options and make a plan. People can headcanon and decide how long things where happening, but if we look at what we were presented through the characters eyes, the only person given time to do that was Jimmy.

He waited two months after the crash to appoint himself Captain. Every time a problem was brought up he immediately took action and refused to sit on it and find a better solution. I think it's important to look at the warped way Jimmy takes initiative where Curly didn't as it works as a good contrast of why you don't just run in to "fix" things. The quickest and easiest option may not be the safest or most beneficial. I think some thoughts on the game suffer from the black and white thinking the game doesn't operate on along with us being voyeurs. We see what exactly led to what but the characters don't. They don't have the hindsight and foresight we do and even ours is scrambled by the non-linear story telling.

Like it's hard to talk abuou those grey zones without sounding like an apologist because you're explaining why taking responsibility isn't easy. It's not and it's weird to act like it would be in a scenerio that led up to the events of the game knowing what we know. We see all these characters in such isolated moments with various things before, in between, after and even during we aren't privy too. The idea that Jimmy is worse than Curly heavily banks on the words Jimmy was saying to Jimmy before he crashed the ship. That whatever happened on the ship was his responsibility to bare, which is true due to his position. But, are they not still not responsible for taking the actions Curly then must bare?

Like i feel like people think that these are situation that become easier with age or when you are in a postion of authority and they aren't. You don't lose your biases or gain some sudden knowledge that makes it easier. It just becomes more tiring as you keep dealing with it. I would be first in line to say Curly fucked up and should've done more but the idea he knew how bad it could get or he really saw the worst in the people around him and ignored it pretty much ignores a huge aspect of his character and the game.

[atthebell]

Why are the qsmp family allegations on twt such a bad thing? /genq I'm genuinely curious, I'm not a fan of people found family claiming everything these days, but I was wondering about your reasons for this specifically! Feel free to ignore this ask if you want o/ cheers!

i think there's a few big issues i and many other people have with this:

usually it's based on nothing, or on nonsense jokes. like cellbit clearly jokingly calling phil dad. that's not basis for anything. putting that dynamic on the wiki after one joke is fucking insane, and i think the fandom wiki editors are actually nuts for that and all the other stupid shit they pull like this.

it's used to avoid shipping people pretty often, which frankly is ridiculous in the first place and is also often an issue of dumbass misogyny/cooties bullshit. you can maintain a creator's shipping boundaries (if they even have them, which, sometimes they don't even!) without having to family code them with every other character. phil does not need to be techno's dad for you to not ship them. and on the cooties/misogyny angle, it's used CONSTANTLY to avoid shipping women with men. like, firstly, people's insistence against shipping female characters with men serves to continuously sideline them in fan content. 90% of the time the most popular ships are m/m and women in canonical relationships with popular male characters get treated like garbage for "being in the way." secondly, it's cooties shit, like i said. women and men can be friends and don't have to be related for you not to ship them. just don't ship them if you don't want to. this goes for any set of characters. if you don't want to ship phil and cellbit, just don't do it. and don't get pissy with other people when they do want to do that.

for phil in particular: it serves to infantilize characters who are grown adults and pushes phil into a constant parental position with people. like, phil is very dad, he's just like that, he's very responsible and good with people, but he's not EVERYONE ON THE PLANET'S DAD and acting like it's his responsibility to care for everyone he interacts with sucks. case in point, the way people treated him during dsmp when fans would not let go of family sbi dynamics, even when he said that tommy wasn't his kid and was not his responsibility. phil does not owe any other character anything, and that expectation is a sore spot for many people, especially phil mains. and the agency it takes away from the characters that people child-code is annoying and shitty.

people make it super nuclear and weird when that's almost directly opposed to the notion of chosen family in real life

basically i think it's a really weird practice that people have fallen into that often feels regressive and annoying and removes character agency and independence. like, i enjoy family dynamics when they're actually relevant and when they don't ruin character's individual personalities, but the automatic reaching for that when it's not true and the insistence that family dynamics are somehow morally better than shipping is obviously very stupid and very much fandom purity culture.

[kynimdraws]

INFO POST

Name: Kylee (they/them). 30+

A totally normal Korean American mostly known for my drawings, specifically my Pokemon nuzlocke comics. But I will talk about other things on occasion because I do have periods of being fixated on certain topics. I also am a doctor!

Interests: Pokemon, League of Legends (everything except the game lmao), Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, Animal Crossing, Mother series, Korean history/culture, character design

General FYIs: 

General inquiries/commission work/etc should be sent thru kynimdraws [at] gmail [dot] com! Tumblr messaging/asks/etc is not 100% reliable

I will not follow NSFW accounts but I am fine talking/interacting with them. There may be suggestive shitposting but I like keeping my content on the SFW side

I am VERY picky about who I follow/interact with online. Fandom content in particular is a minefield for me aka I have many things I dislike and don’t want to see, even if it might be a popular thing in media that I otherwise enjoy. Therefore, I will unfollow/block/mute liberally. There are times I accidentally block a blog bc I mistake them for bots. So if you got hit with that, just send me an ask or email me

I am very open about what I like and dislike, and none of those things are a direct attack on your sensibilities. I have never gone out of my way to directly send hate or whatever have you if I end up seeing shit I don’t like. My complaints in my little online space ain't a personal attack on you.

My ask/submission box/DMs  are open for criticisms if you have any issues you want to resolve in private. No one is perfect and I may have done ignorant shit that needs to be pointed out. I have deleted or edited posts in the past if people tell me what I did wrong. PS I get that some of my stuff may upset you, but try to act civil when pointing shit out please.

I try to tag all my things whenever I can. Again, send me a message if anything bothers you. I am all for good debate but if you send me excessive hate or threats bc I have different opinions about matters that are trivial, I will block/delete them.

If you wish to use any of my hcs, please credit me. And if you are comfortable with it, send me the works so I can check them out! Or @ me if that is easier.

---

FIRE EMBLEM FYI: Specifically for 3Houses/3Hopes because I need a separate one for this franchise specificially given how many crazy things I got due to being involved in this fanbase via my fanworks:

DO NOT try to convince me to like or tolerate Byleth/student ships, ESPECIALLY the ones with the lords (aka CIaude, Dimitri, EdeIgard). I already summarized why I don’t like FE3H Byleth ships with student chars here. While the spinoff game FEW3H has now removed that teacher/student problematic situation, the fandom keeps putting the FE3H elements into the FEW3H fanworks (i.e. remembering Byleth from “another life” trope)...so no thanks!! DO NOT SHOW ME IT!!!

As for the Byleth ships with faculty members, my response is here so don’t try to bait me about that topic either thanks.

I do not care whom you ingame S-support. 3Houses limits the dating-sim part of the game to that character, so I cannot care less about how you play the game. The main issue I have is when people treat Byleth the “character” as a legit ship material when I personally think they are a cool character ruined by fans who are too obsessed with badly executed self insert otome tropes bc they self-project super hard onto them. Just to be clear, any FE3H or FEW3H OC/Canon >>>>>>Byleth ships personally. Even Byleth-sonas that remove the teacher/student aspects are better than canon FE3H!Byleth

Please don't drag FE VA statements as some sort of “gotcha” on my opinions like this post here. IDC what other people prefer with ship shit, that’s their problem and not mine. I am not gonna bother them about it. So don’t bother ME about it.

---

Links to check out:

Myths of Unova + Episode Grey (Pkmn White/White2 Comic)

Tales of Sinnoh (Pkmn Diamond Comic)

Art Site (Portfolio)

Twitter 

Instagram 

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 4

Joan Watson

How were BBC Sherlock shippers so rancid about a WOMAN who wasnt even in the SAME SHOW?????

Martin Freeman of BBC Sherlock insulted Elementary and specifically Lucy Liu in the press. He straight up called Lucy Liu a "dog" in an interview APPARENTLY as a joke, because calling female actors ugly is hilarious. Benedict Cumberbatch was more measured about it, but he still said he was cynical about Elementary because it would lose the "male friendship" dynamic, which of course Johnlock shippers used against Joan Watson fans. Even the lead BBC Sherlock actors got in on the yaoi victimization of Joan Watson... 😔

she wasn't even in the same SHOW as the yaoi I've been convinced she deserves to win the entire poll. I was a Johnlocker but I did watch the first season of Elementary and it was fine????? It was totally okay????? Especially in hindsight given how hard Sherlock season four flopped. Also Lucy Liu is a queen and deserved zero vitriol for *checks notes* playing a character???? A fucking fictional character???????? Oh my god we were all SO mean to this show and we (or at least I) thought it was like The Good Fight™️, like we were defending BBC Sherlock against copyright infringement and straightwashing and Jonny Lee Miller's bizarre scarf, (it wasn't a good scarf I do stand by that) but then Elementary didn't make Holmes and Watson a couple either???? And also it didn't insult its audience constantly etc etc we've all seen the Hbomberguy Sherlock is Garbage video. This is really long sorry hashtag justice for Joan Watson.

Misa Amane

she gets treated in-canon the way fandoms treat female characters that Threaten an m/m ship. it's like, "oh why don't you go sit in the corner and be pretty, misa, while the Men have intelligent conversation and pretend they aren't ten seconds from fucking each other, doesn't that sound nice?" it's infuriating. and MAYBE it's better now but i remember her getting treated the same way in fanfiction too, like we all need to do just as badly by our female secondary characters as fucking tsugumi ohba, but with the added insult of making her be alternately oblivious of the relationship between light and L or actively trying to sabotage it—incompetently, of course, because god forbid misa be allowed dignity or moments of cleverness.

she's one of the first characters I think of when I consider old school fandom misogyny. The annoying bitch and clingy crazy gf allegations were AFTER HER ASS. She's also a lot more intelligent than people gave her credit for, but most seem inclined to take the Very Biased word of our unreliable, narcissistic narrator and his homoerotic arch nemesis and claim that just because she's bubbly and into romance that she's also a complete moron. Which is blatantly untrue. Everyone was afraid of Misa girlbossing too hard. Killing people and devoting yourself to the deranged twink of your dreams even though you know he'll never love you back??? Having a hardcore goth aesthetic and being so Hot even literal Death Gods are into you?? God forbid women do ANYTHING!

Not only is she the victim of yaoi culture, she is the victim of early 2000s misogyny by an author that wanted to introduce a girl character because he knew his male rivals were getting too homoerotic. She is a goth bimbo icon who portrays what I think is one of the few callouts for stan culture and what parasocial relationships can do to both the stan and the idol. The fact that she is a toxic fan of Kira and also hot, funny, sociable is tragic in its own way, which I think the author did try to touch on but was too misogynistic too really get through. Of course, she was reduced to villain status by the fandom and anime alike because she got in the way of the supposed romance in their psychological horror anime.

[castlebyersafterdark]

I agree with you. The people who have problems with byler having sex are the younger fans. It has nothing to do with sexuality or gender. They are always calling people pedophiles for liking "their teen ship." It doesn't belong to them. I know many people have said this, but I think Will and Mike are meant to give a coming-of-age to people who never got one in the 80s. I think teens today have a hard time relating to it. Which may be part of the reason they are uncomfortable when people talk about it being groundbreaking. It's also noteworthy that no one gives a fuck when people were talking about mileven having sex at 14. A thing that was far more problematic for a lot of reasons. But byler having sex when they are older and emotionally mature is an issue for people. Adults tend to be more mature about sex. But this fandom in particular has been crazy to witness. The younger fans don't really get how to act in a fandom in general. They get upset if people have crack ships or do anything that isn't strictly canon. They get upset if someone has a theory that goes against what they like. They get upset if anyone actually has a background in a topic and knows more than them (i.e. there used to be a lot of people here who studied film and talked about that. At least up until a lot of younger people got upset they were proving their theories wrong. Then they got attacked for it.)

Being freaked out by sex falls in line with the rest of their behavior. Which is odd considering how many porn bots Tumblr has. You'd think they'd be more comfortable with it. But the people who are discussing spicy byler stuff are doing totally normal fandom things and I personally haven't witnessed anyone being creepy about this. So the outrage is (what a shock) out of proportion to the discussion that people are having about it. I think with this fandom in particular, there may have been more gay men in it at one point, but so many people have left now due to the hostility. I know Will means a lot to them so it's a shame if this is true. But I've seen a lot of homophobia coming from young people as well. Especially directed at Noah. It's possible they just left because they didn't want to listen to it anymore. I also thought it was funny and really odd that that one ask specifically mentioned lesbians being uncomfortable with byler having sex. WHY? No one is forcing them to have sex with a man if they watch it! It won't make them straight. People tend to like sex in general regardless of their own orientation. I'm sure there are lesbians around here who support the ship and the rep it brings and want it to be a good story too.

I don't have much more to add but this is a very good read on the current fandom culture in general!!

My hope moving forward is that well-adjusted and mature, level-headed fans just trying to have a good time exploring all a fandom/ship offers can find their people and seek out these little circles until the greater fandom changes as time moves forward, don't engage with contentious people who are probably teens ill-equipped to handle the world outside their own perspective yet, and keep speaking up against any hatred. Wish I'd done that in the past but, well. Here I am now. Continuously crossing my fingers for change on the horizon 🤞🤞🤞

[alliepretends]

Since I posted one of my Dimension 20 hot takes, and didn't literally explode. I think I'll post the other one that really matters to me.

The discourse around aroace Riz is really hard for me. And I find it really hard to be empathic toward people who think about it differently than I do. And I think it's important to put that lack of empathy in context. Fandom (and by this I mean the broader fandom culture, not D20 fandom specifically) has generally been an extremely hostile space for aromantic people. Shipping is the central pillar of fandom engagement and dialogue. And a romantic lens is typically the very first lens applied to the source material when it is brought into fandom spaces. By that I don't just mean it's what people think about first, I mean analysis tends to pass first through the lens of romance, and then only things the romantic lens can't lay claim to are left for other kinds of analysis. Even for aromantic people like me, who very much enjoy romance when it exists in the realm of fiction, it's hard not to feel like there's a message in that. "Characters, and the fiction they exist in, are only valuable when seen through the lens of romance. Regardless of the genre of the source material. That's because romance is unquestionably the most important and defining feature of life. Unless it's sex." This can get pretty extreme if you become a fan of something with an especially strong central ship (like a Supernatural), where it can feel like literally all analysis of any aspect of the work has to tie back to the ship. In my experience, the sub-culture of fandom, for all its trappings of queer acceptance, is far more arophobic and aro-hostile than any other culture or sub-culture I participate in. Not because fans are actively making anti-aro posts or hate aro people, but because romance is elevated as the primary element of human experience. The only one really worth talking about and exploring. The only one worth writing fics about or dedicating massive posts to. It is worth noting that the Dimension 20 fandom (and, based on my experience, actual play in general) seems to be less romance-focused than other fandoms. There's lots of gen fic. There's lots of discussion that doesn't focus on romance. But that doesn't mean the Dimension 20 fandom somehow exists separately from overall fandom culture. The baggage of that larger culture still informs this fandom.

And that's why the way Riz gets talked about feels like such a slap in the face. He is the first example I (and I expect many others) have encountered of a heavily-coded aromantic character popular with fandom. And yet, that hasn't freed him from the fandom scramble to read him through the lens of romance. I'll admit to being a bit of an extremist on this. I know that for many aromantic people having a single qpr that fills many of the needs of romance is really an important part of their experience. Many of my aromantic/aspec friends feel this way. But I don't even like qpr Fabriz. Because even though that is an authentic and important part of aromanticism to represent. With a character like Riz, whose fears are explicitly based around the lack of access he has to coupledom, qpr Riz still feels like an attempt by romance-oriented fandom to jam the first aromantic character the sub-culture gets its hands on into something that looks enough like traditional coupledom that no one has to change their romance-oriented outlook. The myth of the OTP can live on if you just change some of the verbiage. I know there are arospec people that would also feel excluded if fandom fell in line with my perspective and kept Riz as far away as possible from anything resembling romance. I don't actually know what the right solution to these problems is. We got thrown one bone and there's a bit of a desire to fight over it (Wikipedia's list of aromantic characters has 18 characters, and while that's not all of them, it's a decent percentage). But I did want to put this out in the world. Because I feel like there's a lot of context and baggage missing from this discourse. And all I really want is to have fandom still be able to treat an aromantic character as valuable even when they can't neatly pair him off