#I love this fandom and want to be better about showing it

[absolutebl]

hiii I hope I'm doing this correctly! I haven't been on Tumblr in ages but I stumbled upon your posts and would love to hear your recommendations for spicy bls that are realistic with not many goofy sound effects like in Thai bls. By spicy I mean shows or movies that do include some intimacy... I really enjoyed the pornographer, the cornered mouse dreams of cheese and my beautiful man. I don't mind the show being happy, I just want it to feel real. Jbls tend to be my preference lately because of that. TY

Spicy Realistic BLs with No Camp Aspects

similar to: Pornographer, The Cornered Mouse Dreams of Cheese, My Beautiful Man

Here's a short list of more recent stuff, since lots of my posts on this are somewhat (I put a star* next to the ones I think you'll especially like)

This Love Doesn't Have Long Beans

My Stand-In*

Jack and Joker

Deep Night

Every You Every Me

Unknown*

Love Sea

City of Stars (pulp warning)

At 25:00, in Alaska AKA 25 Ji, Akasaka de

To Be Continued

Step By Step

The Eighth Sense*

Jun and Jun

My Personal Weatherman AKA Taikan Yoho*

Love is Better the Second Time Around AKA Koi wo Suru nara Nidome ga Joto*

Bed Friend*

Never Let Me Go

Moonlight Chicken*

Between Us

Tokyo in April is AKA Shigatsu no Tokyo wa*

FYI I had to eliminate quite a few (like Pit Babe, Two Worlds, and The Sign, I Feel You Linger in the Air) because of your "realistic" restriction. That said I think you would REALLY enjoy IFYLITA.

More obscure and historic BLs

Older post: Everything not Thai qualifies, and some of the higher rated Thai stuff on this list:

Everything mentioned on this list also applies:

These BLs are all quite realistic, but may not always have high heat:

FYI

Hope that's helpful. There should be some stuff you haven't seen before.

(source)

[causenessus]

hi! i'll keep this short

i came to the realization everytime i've disappeared from tumblr to "take a break" i never really have because of other things going on in my life (which, duh, this isn't my whole life) but! i also realized that if i never actually take the time to recover and rest and think about things i should be writing i'll never feel better. so! i'm (once again)(but now more formally) going on hiatus until maybe may! i might pop in for spring break or earlier if i feel like it, but until then, not really any writing from me! with that being said, i'll still be around, doting on my moots (i.e. like, dorothea <3 wyr <3 and bug <3) because i love them so much and i will probably also post chapters of present ever so often! the reason being (i'm going to try to make this make sense but it may only make sense to me but i'm aware of how contradicting i am to me five seconds ago when i said i need to take a break from writing) present is a very personal fic for me that i've worked on for years at this point. what i'm posting now are chapters i wrote months ago after I've read over and edited them (or in the case of the upcoming chapter, i did randomly add it in and had to write it from the ground up last week lmao) but if it isn't obvious, present is a work i'm very passionate about and am just posting in case anyone else enjoys it but it feels like it's a work that is very individualized just for me and it doesn't cause me any stress or anxiety. on the topic of individualization, although i am of course so so thankful for all of the support and people that follow me, i do sort of miss when my blog and world were a lot smaller. it's something i feel like i only get when i get to reply to people in comments, but other than that, all the numbers and people on my feed give me a lot of anxiety. the hq (smau fandom especially) fandom or at least how much i'm (was) involved in it has grown exponentially and of course i'm happy about that but it's a bit too much for me. i'll be taking a huge step back from the fandom and any hq works i've written at least in the meantime, but that's not to say they'll never be finished! but i either need to grow to handle the bigger audience that now reads my works or wait for things to grow a little smaller again :) i hope to still be able to read my moots works but forgive me if it takes me a bit or i never get to them! i think at the least i'll still like them to show my support <3 thank you if you read my long ramble! i love you all <3

oh also i'll probably post self ship moodboards and the beginning of my reading list (thank you again dorothea for the idea <3)! but again, I think you get the idea by now; I want to go back to doing this for me! so this is a tiny little goodbye now i'm leaving for you all with forehead kisses and flowers and love notes and mwah <3 i'll see you around!

[significant-narratives]

hi anon! i know this probably isn't quite what you were looking for, but i'd like to give you a couple of sports poetry recommendations. some of them are more directly about sports than others, but i think they all do a wonderful job of showing the way that sports and sports fandom can function as metaphor for and reflection of humanity, the inevitable passage of time, and the ways in which people love.

where possible, i have included direct links to the poems themselves.

Biography of LeBron as Ohio by Sean Thomas Dougherty

if you're only going to read one poem from this list, let it be this one.

the subject of this poem is NBA star lebron james, who is considered one the greatest, possibly even the greatest, basketball player of all time. this poem examines what the man behind the myth. what does it mean to be 'just a kid from akron, ohio', as james is so fond of saying? what does it mean to come from 'the middle of nowhere' and become one of the greatest stars your sports has ever seen? it's an incredibly moving, heartfelt, and oddly personal piece. and i would highly recommend that you read it out loud. just trust me on this one.

Does LeBron think of dying? Does the grape think of dying as it withers on the vine by the lake? Or does it dream of the wine it will become?

WHEN I SAY THAT LOVING ME IS KIND OF LIKE BEING A CHICAGO BULLS FAN by Hanif Abdurraqib

one of my personal favourite poems of all time, this piece uses the once dynastic chicago bulls basketball franchise to talk about what it means to fall from grace, to lose what once made you great, to feel like the best version of yourself has become a distant memory.

as a side note, i would also recommend abdurraqib's book, 'there's always this year: on basketball and ascension'.

or I will say I promise that my legs just need another season, and then I will be who you fell in love with again.

Poem for My Father by Quincy Troupe

it's a bit difficult to summarize this one.

this poem is dedicated to the poet's father, quincy t. trouppe sr, a professional baseball player during the 1930s until the 1950s. quincy jr writes about his father, the impact of colonialism on individual identity, what it means to be black in america, and the game of baseball. you can feel how much love quincy had for his father in how he writes about him and his legacy.

crucially, this poem also touches on the racism that was present in major league baseball at the time of his father's career and what it meant for his father to play in the league at the time that he did.

father, it was an honor to be there, in the dugout with you

Wide Receiver by Mark Halliday

the inherent intimacy of being teammates on the same sports team chasing the same dream. that's it that's the poem.

so come on, star boy, fling a Hail Mary with a dream-coached combination of muscle and faith

The Bee by James Dickey

sometimes your coach is your father. sometimes your father is your coach. sometimes your coach haunts you long after you leave the playing field behind. sometimes your coach is the only voice you can hear. sometimes it's the only voice you want to hear.

and also bees are there.

Long live what I badly did At Clemson and all of my clumsiest drives For the ball [...] Coach Shag Norton, Tell me as you never yet have told me To get the lead out scream whatever will get The slow-motion of middle age off me

Poem with Bleating Heart by Robert Wood Lynn

because at the end of the day, sports fandom is just a metaphor for the way that humans love. for better or worse.

once again it is fall all around us there are sports teams praying for god to smite their opponents

Hi!

This is maybe a bit left of field, but I love your blog and you seem very knowledgeable so maybe you (or one of your followers?) have an idea.

Can you recommend some reading material on sports in general? It can absolutely be hockey related but I’m talking sort of bigger scope. More specifically, how (team) sports relate to society as a whole, what role it plays for humanity, maybe it’s history? What about the fan culture?

For context, I come from a pretty academic family where growing up there was this all encompassing prejudice of “it’s for stupid people” (which is clearly stupid in itself). I guess I’m trying to break the mold, but all of it is culturally very new to me.

It can be books, articles, essays, anything.

I realise I sound like a nerd, but. Maybe?

I love this q!!! I'm going to list some of my favourites, but I also haven't read everything (or even most things) so I'll leave it open to the floor to add to. If you have recs for this anon, please reblog with additions!

Moneyball by Michael Lewis and its semi-not-really sequel Big Data Baseball by Travis Sawchik are about the analytics revolutions in baseball - Moneyball about the original one that sparked from amateur mathematician Bill James' writings, and Big Data about the inception of the Statcast era about fifteen years later.

The Game by Ken Dryden is a biography by one of the greatest goalies and minds ever to play the sport. I would recommend almost anything written by Dryden, but this is really his masterwork.

17776 is a work of fiction written by Jon Bois, but I feel like it fits within the scope of your question anyway - thematically it seeks to ask and answer why we play sports and what they mean to us. It's also written and presented online for free and you can just google it, so you don't have to hunt through your libraries or buy a copy!

The Game of Our Lives by Peter Gzowski is a rarer one, especially if you're not Canadian, but I have a personal connection so I'll always recommend it anyway. It's written about Wayne Gretzky during his initial NHL season, and examines the way we think of greatness, what makes hockey players great (on a technical as well as social level), and the ideal of a Great Hockey Player as it relates to Canadian national identity.

Along that thread, I'll finally recommend the works of sociologist Kristi Allain, who's written multiple papers on the construction of Canadian identity both within hockey and within media discussing it, and the socialization and experiences of Canadian and non-Canadian hockey players.

[mseden-fries]

Lemme just say, right off the bat, that your art is so freaking amazing.

I was in the Hey, Arnold! fandom eons ago, (in the 90s), and used to write fics for it. (I was Carrot Top at the time.) I loved loved loved Helga, and she has always been in my top 5 favorite cartoon characters of all time.

You write them so well, and I've been having such a good time going through your blog and checking out the comic.

Super, super well done. Thank you for sharing!

Gah! Ur gonna make me cry 🥹 I actually didn’t become a fan until I was around 10 years old myself and although I did like art, I wasn’t sure what kind of art I wanted to pursue in the future. It wasn’t until I watched the hey Arnold movie, the first one, that I knew what I wanted to do which was to create comics. I actually remember never watching an episode just watching the movie over and over and over and not even realizing that there was a show for it 😅 but then we were pretty poor and actually our house just burned down so we were staying in a church house until we found a new place to live and they had a lot of VCR’s that we could watch including a bright orange nickelodeon VCR titled the Hey Arnold movie.

I remember joining the fan group on Facebook that was called the Hey Arnold save the jungle movie and being a part of the fan base when the movie finally got made and just being super excited about it like it was a dream come true ❤️ I can say with complete certainty that the reason I pursue making comics now is all because of hey Arnold, it is my first love and I’m having fun making this comic and I’m glad that people actually enjoy reading it too! I started making this years after the hype died down, but there was still a lot that I felt was left unsaid in the jungle movie that as a fan, I wanted to explore not to take away from the original, but I just needed more

And that’s why I’m doing this, also to improve myself

Sorry, that was probably not the question you asked, but I feel like I had to get that out lol! When things were tough growing up, I could pop in that orange VCR tape and feel a little better about everything  



[dropthedemiurge]

Usually, I have only one fandom for a few years, I really cannot multifandom because I want to dive deep and know and follow everything, and I can't go into hyperfocus with several different artists or shows. But last year I saw Love for Love's Sake and fell in love with Lee Taevin, all acting, his manners, attitude and soul-whispering late night DJ voice – and somehow, I keep returning to him. And I keep going to his solo events too. I joined his fancafe and added many fan accs on twitter. And I went to his Bday/debut cafe as well. It doesn't help that Taevin's/LFLS fans in Korea are so fun and generous and prepare cool stuff they give out for free :')

ANYWAY I LITERALLY BUMPED INTO TAEVIN TODAY! I was gonna go to a couple of his Bday cafes, but then I saw on twitter that he already attended two of them and thought I totally missed him (I still had 30min subway ride to that area). So I was like: I don't have a great luck, at least I gave him high five last fanmeeting – and I went to the cool gamer-like cafe. Saw a huge line of fans, turned around and exited, thinking I'd better come later when there aren't many people, first I'll go to a different one next street. And as I came out of the building, literally Taevin hopped right in front of my face to the banner xD I stopped like a deer in headlights – I'm so lucky I managed to pull my phone and start filming, although my filming skills are sooo awful (cuz I try not to shove phones in artists' faces so I never know where exactly I point the camera)

And once Taevin was done taking photos, he saw me and I said: "Happy Birthday!!!" He was so surprised (probably not expecting a foreign fan recognizing him on the street) and was like "THANK YOU!" And then smiled so widely his eyes closed and did the 🙏 thanking gesture. His bodyguard smiled at me too.

Well, I went back to the cafe but since there was a line, we had to stay on the stairs and waited for him to go play with fans in the cafe. We said hi and wished him a HBD again when he was walking out :] (he was so busy waving and thanking the fans for coming that he bumped his head on a fire alarm, and was pouty about it xD)

Anyway, next to me was another foreigner (the only other one in sight) so when he came out, he did the 👁️👄👁️ face one again, full of surprise, and made sure to slow down and greet her directly (and smiled at me again). It's so funny, doesn't he know he has many foreign fans?xD He's actually quite popular in Korea, with guys and girls, even more than Joowan, I was surprised. Maybe he didn't expect someone to be his fan outside of BL events?

Anyway. I didn't talk to him much but even in these short interactions Lee Taevin radiates such warmth?? And I love his thoughts during LFLS interviews etc. Plus, he's almost the same age as me do I don't feel weird being a fan of some really young artist.

ANYWAY. I feel like I don't have a choice but to stan. Like, actually stan. I'm sorry to my K-pop ult group of 8 years, I will be cheating on you, but this guy. Lee Taevin. Lee Sewoong. Is so precious... 🥺

(and the cafe event was really fun and dope! They even had gacha and game arcades. I got a lot of gifts once again... where am I supposed to store them all?! don't multifandom, friends)

[greenerteacups]

Jkr as a writer anon, sorry for the follow up!

I so agree with you! One of the things that I found kind of… not smooth in this transition, is that she wanted the characters to behave in a certain way which would serve the plot and would be very “we knew all along that Harry is a messiah and was supposed to die” while never giving them space for reaction.

Snape is shocked at the revelation that Harry was “brought up like a pig for slaughter”, and he does… nothing. Characters have no time to react to that, too, they have no time to get angry and upset. Hermione and Ron are not even allowed to contemplate that their best friend, a very precious and loved friend, was brought up so that he could sacrifice himself, and that in aligning themselves with him they also became in the eyes of Dumbledore fair targets. An orphan, a sixth Weasley boy and a muggleborn walk into a bar, and no one cares.

I always felt like Sirius was not supposed to die this early. There are empty spaces where his character should have been in later books (regulus mystery feels like something very glaring, no one reacts to that, there is no emotional pay off - that’s what I mean).

And at the end she just slaps Harry calling his kid after Snape and Dumbledore, to shut the plot hole completely. Idk. Feels very… authoritarian to me

So it's really interesting you say that!! Because — and you may know this, so sorry if I'm rehashing — Sirius was only one of several names on the shortlist for the Big Death at the end of Book 5. Miscellaneously it's been said in fandom spaces that Arthur was the "original sacrifice" for OOTP, but to be honest, I can't find any primary sources for that, and I think it's one of these fandom urban legends that people have been shopping around without sources for so long they're accepted. The best I can do is this Leaky Cauldron interview from 2007, where the interviewer asks her "what would have changed if you killed Arthur in Book 5?" Which is not the same thing as her saying that she was going to! But then again, since it's an excerpt, it might have been in response to a remark she made earlier about him being the original. Here's the quote:

I think they would have been very different and it’s part of the reason why I chose my mind (sic) … By turning Ron into half of Harry, in other words by turning Ron into someone who had suffered the loss of a parent, I was going to remove the Weasleys as a refuge for Harry and I was going to necessarily remove a lot of Ron’s humor. That’s part of the reason why I didn’t kill Arthru (sic). I wanted to keep Ron in tact …

Take that as you will. I (a sicko freak) personally love the idea of turning Ron into "half of Harry," conceptually — not necessarily by killing Arthur or Molly but like, the idea of Ron/Harry as foils to each other that are so deeply entwined with each other's lives that they become shadows of each other thematically and plot-wise. Ron yearns to be like Harry and Harry yearns to be like Ron, right? So they both get what they want, and Ron suffers a tragedy, and Harry realizes the terror of having a family to protect. And they trauma-bond over it as they increasingly become the only people who understand each other. Etc. They're destiny, they're chosen soulmates, they're fated to find each other, that's not always a good thing, etc. You know what I'm like.

Incidentally, this is the same interview where we get the infamous "full circle" quote explaining why she killed Lupin and Tonks:

The only other reason I didn’t kill Arthur was that I wanted to come full circle. We started with an orphan, someone who lost their parents because of the war. ANd so I wanted to show it again … Even though you don’t see Teddy, I wanted to express in the epilogue, that he gets an even better godfather than Harry had, because Sirius had ihs (sic) faults, I think we must admit. He was a risky guy to have a s a godfather. Because Teddy gets someone who really has been there, and Harry becomes a really great father figure for Teddy as well as his own children.

So both times, it seems like Arthur's death is contemplated, but he's spared because of what the Weasleys mean to Harry, and the effect it would have on Ron. Which. I've already talked about my thoughts on the Epilogue and Teddy Lupin, so I won't go off about it here. Worth noting, however, that Sirius dies because Book 5 (and this I agree with) wants an "anchoring death," or something to shift the books another step into the dark tone of a war. Book 4 ends with the death of a child; Book 5 ends with death of a parent, an adult. Book 5 is also substantially about disillusionment with the adults around you, and learning to navigate a world of complex, flawed grown-ups who all have substantially more power than you do. So there's a reading where Sirius — someone who's never really "grown up" — dying drives home the lesson of putting childish things aside and seeing people for what they are, etc. Thematically, I'm not mad at it. I am mad at the fact that plot-wise, it bricks up our easiest window into the world of the Blacks, so any first-hand account we could get of Regulus or Narcissa or Bellatrix's upbringing vanishes with him. Tonks and Andromeda theoretically could fill that void, but we never meet Andromeda, and Tonks dies after spending the whole of Book 7 off-page, so we never get that chance to learn what their lives were like. But hey! Can't do everything, I guess.

[dvinaamesca]

Yea I agree with this one. There’s always gonna be pointing fingers on people, some superiority in the fandom and exploiting that by getting people to agree with them even if they are wrong and already come out as harsh. This isn’t a competition or who’s doing better at their contents. I always remember that everyone goes through things in life whether if it’s mental health, busy, anything like that. I don’t judge like that. Some will come out as rude that they don’t really mean it that way and later they are actually nice. It’s good to hear people out sometimes and give them a chance. Don’t be a dick to the point you’re acting like their mother or father. And if the person is in fact showing toxicity and causing problems to others emotionally (like racism, homophobic, sexists, being an antichrists and shit) then it’s different. You can call out on these people all you want, block them and shit.

I just wanted to also add that I ABSOLUTELY love Lies of P fandom. I think we have a lot of nice people and some are respectful compared to the other fandoms I’m in, and I mean that. If we can continue being supportive of each other without any jealousy or some sort, just mutuals or friends however you call it, having fun and showing love to Neowiz. That’s pretty much about what I have to say and let’s keep it positive. I don’t normally right things like this, unless I vent about people not giving credits, accusations and such. Other than that, I appreciate being here. :)

Anonymous sent a PSA confession!

We thought for a bit if we should be posting it, but we came to the conclusion that it would be a good idea. While this blog does not take any sides in conflicts like proship/anti, we have (sadly) heard a lot of rumors about things going on in this fandom alone, and we would like to say one thing:

If you harass, bully or alienate someone for whatever reason; differences in opinions, different views on favorite characters, personal matters or even rumors (especially alleged stuff), you're no better than the person you hate so much. Behavior like this is absolutely vile and terrible and it only shows what kind of person you are.

No one, absolutely no one deserves to be harassed or alienated. You have a right to dislike someone for whatever reasons, even the pettiest ones. But nothing gives you the right to harass someone, spread rumors about them, or push them away. If you don't like someone, block and move on; don't spread rumors and lies about them. If you think they're dangerous, remove yourself from the alleged danger. Do not send anyone to harass them. Don't make entire callouts based on one point of view. Everyone deserves a chance. We are all just trying to survive here.

Harassment, bullying, spreading rumors, doxxing and alienating people is vile and disgusting.

So, if you practice or condone such behavior, please see yourself out! No kind of harassment or bullying will be ever accepted here. This blog is meant for positivity, as that is what we would like the community to be.

[waywardstation]

I still browse the submas tag so regularly but after all these inactive periods I used to take, I’d fallen into this sort of self-conscious slump of being too shy to interact with posts and the fandom for a long time and I know it’s been like that for months. Trying to do better about that now instead of being so nervous about it ^^

[mxtxfanatic]

Fandom Gripe #23: I know that fandom is in some deep denial about its treatment of female characters that are canonically involved with fan favorite m/m ships, but do y’all realize that when you disappear female characters from the narrative wholesale to push the idea that your canonically straight fav was “secretly gay all along!” you’re making several bad implications? That 1) bi men don’t exist, 2) bi men do exist, but those who have genuinely loved a woman before cannot genuinely love a man after that (therefore bi men don’t exist in practice), 3) women cannot inspire genuine love and devotion in men, therefore any relationship with a woman is “lesser” than the one they later have a man (see previous parenthesis), or 4) to acknowledge the existence of a lovable woman who isn’t a terrible person, where if a relationship previously existed, it did not end because of “incompatibility,” is enough to destabilize the present relationship between two queer men?

Because why is the tgcf fandom allergic to acknowledging that He Xuan had a whole ass fiancée that he loved? Why does no one ever seem to remember that the kidnappings and murders of He Xuan’s sister and fiancée were the final straws that sent him on his rampage, and he still keeps a shrine to them in the present-day of the story? Why is her entire existence and significance to He Xuan as a man, character, and to his character arc disappeared in favor of pushing Shi Qingxuan—the brother of the man responsible for his fiancée’s death—into that same role, as if to say that her impact on He Xuan is significant... just not when it's from her? Why does He Xuan’s life in fandom essentially begin not just after her death but because of it?

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

i’m genuinely shocked by this:

how can someone miss the point by such a large margin that they end up implying that Rhaenyra’s cause would have had no positive impact on the women of the realm?

how can one’s thought process be so far removed from the actual reality? is this the inconsistent logic one must tangle in to become a green? have these people never sat in a history class before?

jeyne arryn anyone? does she not exist to them? a point actually made in the book (not one twisted by the greens to advance their agenda) was that her rulership of the vale would’ve been seriously endangered and put into question if the greens won. but that is conveniently ignored by these interesting… folks.

i can understand the anger this person has with the horrible dance of the dragons adaptation and its treatment of female characters. and i mean it. especially when i say female characters. because alicent isn’t the female character who’s actually getting the shortest end of the stick. it was rhaenyra and rhaenys who were the most grievously declawed. rhaenyra is queen. her council is supposed to be her council. the war is supposed to be her war for her throne, not for some stupid prophecy that should’ve logically been lost a long time ago. and rhaenys is a baratheon with a temper and a dragon rider who would’ve burnt the greens and melted their bones if she had the chance. but for some reason the show decided to make a whole new character and slap rhaenys name on it.

to be clear: rhaenyra and rhaenys were powerful in their own right. they had dragons and were a part of the royal dynasty with claims to the throne. their power is theirs. it is derived from them.

alicent’s power is derived from the power of the men she is related to. that’s literally what the queen dowager title means. her influence is dependent on if the men in her life and her children listen to her. they don’t have to, and many characters don’t listen to her in the book, which is why i say she wasn’t the most grievously declawed.

it’s also hilarious that this person considers the queen dowager position to be the most powerful position in the greens court. they must have never read a cersei chapter as she faces her loss of power, which showcases the fickle nature of the power women hold in the westerosi patriarchy.

the correct sequence of power in the greens court is: the usurper king. then the hand. then the princes, specifically the usurper kings brothers, and then the queen consort, as they have dragons and claims to the throne. then the lords who can call on armies and fleets and have coffers that run deep. then the queen dowager, who has little influence outside of kings landing and therefore not as much influence in court as others.

the case the screenshotted post tries to make is that non-targ women’s positions aren’t advanced by rhaenyra being queen, which, as i pointed out above, is not true, nor is it what rhaenyra is fighting for. rhaenyra fought for her throne, which she had a legal claim to. that’s all. many houses joined her instead of joining the usurpers because of many different reasons, but, imo, three of the most important reasons for joining the blacks/staying neutral were 1) women’s inheritance rights (and women in general) should be respected 2) the head of the houses heir and the heirs right to inherit should be respected 3) oaths should be respected.

i also want to point out that women, most obviously targaryen women, did lose power after rhaenyra’s death and due to the concessions made to the greens and their ideology by the blacks for peace along with anti-rhaenyra propaganda that set women’s inheritance rights and the general power they could hold back by quite a lot.

and funnily enough, we see this first with jaehaera, who, while was a queen, was most likely murdered by the character who was supposed to be guarding her because no one gave a shit about a targaryen girls status and the potential consequences of killing her because they knew they could get away with it; and her death directly led to alicent’s line ending. the reality is that there were practically no consequences, as it seemed to have been easily covered up as a suicide, because the targaryens lost so much power after the dance, which directly put the targaryen women in the line of fire. if the targaryen women couldn’t be used they’d be discarded. and jaehaera, a simple girl who’s entire family was all dead besides one, and who’s father was greatly disliked by many, was an eyesore to those who wished for more power. so she was killed. brutally.

and the reason the women of house targaryen were so vulnerable? it’s because they had no claim to anything anymore! no one could try to use jaehaera for power so no greedy lords sought her favor nor did any want to protect her! and jaehaera is just the start because afterwards we get the maidens in the vault, then viserys ii is installed over daena, and then everything about naerys and her horrid husband, maekar over daenora, and eventually everything concludes with young princess rhaenys and rhaella over a hundred years later. tragic.

it’s literally downhill after rhaenyra’s death.

[isinuyasha-art]

[silverwhittlingknife]

hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?

GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE

Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.

I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:

Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?

We're gonna go in chronological order!

Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:

Aww. Such a cute elephant!

Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!

Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:

SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.

(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)

Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:

Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.

Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.

Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:

Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:

... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.

Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.

For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.

Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.

Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?

tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later

Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!

The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.

(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)

Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.

By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.

So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)

Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do

Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.

(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)

The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.

Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."

But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.

Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)

Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!

(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)

Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.

Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.

Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.

So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.

And look, here we are:

Aww.

Whew - that's everything I could find!

Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3

[dayurno]

this is somewhat of a vent post & something i said i would not do again but has been plaguing me enough that i think getting it out might feel better. so. has anydoggy else been. Baffled and upset by nora sakavic’s refusal to speak on how terribly aftg has treated its characters of color? with the author of the series coming back with a new book and starting up on her online activity again, and questions of what she’d change about aftg bubbling up, it’s particularly glaring to me that we are all playing this very long game of pretend where we ignore how badly the non-white cast has been treated & her lack of thoughts on it

and i understand not wanting to bring up nicky and thea because people pick on her for it. i’m not trying to discredit nora sakavic’s terrible history of getting harrassed online by aftg fans. but i think it is very cynical, and it is very juvenile, and most of all very cruel, that she gets to ignore the very real ways the books have set up these characters to be hated. i think it’s obvious why the characters who get the most hate are the only canonical characters of color, and i think we do not get to treat this like a deliberate decision on the fandom’s part when the books have put these same characters in degrading and embarrassing and terrible positions in the first place. aftg is not a story about nice characters with clean pasts, but there is a very specific nastiness to the only characters of color being a brown man who sexually harasses and later assaults the main character, a black woman whose only scene is her lashing out at her love interest after being ignored for the first two books, and the japanese villain who gets maybe two lines of complexity before he goes back to being a terrible person. the white cast, in comparison, while not at all free from flaws, are never shown to commit mindless evil; all of their actions are ultimately justified. the book goes out of its way to give them concession after concession. we know exactly who to side with, because aftg tells us who these people are. does nicky’s assault ever get addressed in the books? does riko’s reasoning to be the way that he is ever gets more than briefly aluded to? is thea reserved even a shred of humanity or grace in her one scene?

anyway. it’s been years of talking about this and the fandom has been constantly hostile to criticism in this regard, and more recently any criticism at all, and it’s Grating to be on the other side of this discussion. it’s exhausting to know that in ten years we do not get even an acknowledgment besides the author saying she will not answer questions about nicky and thea anymore. it’s upsetting and it’s ugly and i wish no one had to talk about this again, but we do because what i thought was common sense has been washed away by a sudden influx of no-nuance adoration for the trilogy. basically i hope we all explode

[reginamillls]

I think the deleted scene is simply showing you how much Buck is cared for by the people he chose to be in his life, and from someone who craved that care and attention for so long I just think that's neat that Buck has so many people now that do, and idk I'm just happy for him

[necrotic-nephilim]

Hey there, are you ok?

hey! thank you for checking up on me, this was really sweet!

i SWEAR i did not die. i just got a bit busy doing SladeRobin Week (which i will finish so help me god-) as well as things in my real life. i'm still trying to find the balance of like. fandom creation and working. i am very lucky to have the living situation that i do rn, but it is the sort of schedule where i do have to be ready to watch a baby at really any given point so. it's a tricky balance right now, but i'm going to be active here again! maybe not as many asks answered a day as before, but i want to try to answer like, a few a day and whatnot.

i also think i got briefly overwhelmed, in that i got more asks faster than i answered them. which is the opposite of a problem and something i'm very lucky for! but it did make it difficult for me to keep up and know what to answer next. (this is *not* a discouragement to sending asks! i love them all and pls send as many as you want! i just am a little slow sometimes so i appreciate the patience! <3)

so! i'm back and i'm good, ty for asking! we are back to the regularly scheduled programming <3

[iholli]

robot,,, bf,,, my beloved,,,