#For Nothing. as in i assume there was Something with a jin cultivator -- from what he su says there Was something -- but it was obviously

[leatherbookmark]

actually yknow what, yeah jgy’s relationship to the Atrocities he committed IS interesting! it’s just that people are so fucking annoying about them,

[mxtxfanatic]

I would also like the mdzs fandom to stop inventing turmoil between Jiang Fengmian and Jiang Yanli just because Jiang Fengmian had a strained relationship with Jiang Cheng. There’s nothing to say that the father-daughter duo had issues, that Jiang Fengmian was neglectful (to either of them, tbh), or that he was indifferent to his daughter's presence. You feeling like Jiang Yanli is disappeared into the background of her family life because she, like her father, doesn't have a lot of scenes is not supported by the canon. While we don’t get a lot of interactions between them (because there is literally no plot or conflict to highlight), what we do get is Jiang Fengmian sticking up for his daughter and terminating a marriage contract that his abusive wife set up, something even Jin Guangshan was afraid to do:

[Jiang Fengmian] told Jin Guangshan, “The engagement was originally made at the insistence of Ah-Li’s mother. I never agreed with it. Given what happened today, it seems both sides aren’t very fond of each other, so it’s best not to force the issue.” Startled, Jin Guangshan hesitated a bit. Regardless of the situation, ending an engagement with a member of another Great Clan was never a good thing. “What do children understand? Let them fight. Fengmian-xiong, we need not take notice.” “Jin-xiong, though we can help them arrange a marriage, we can’t live the marriage for them. In the end, they are the ones who will spend their lives together.” This marriage business wasn’t Jin Guangshan’s idea in the first place either. From the perspective of consolidating power through a marriage alliance, the Yunmeng Jiang Clan would not be his first choice, nor was it the best choice. The engagement had happened only because he was perpetually afraid of opposing his wife. But in any case, since the Jiang Clan had brought it up of their own accord, and Jin Clan was on the male side of the arrangement and thus had fewer things to be concerned about, it was not necessary to remain entangled. Besides, he knew Jin Zixuan wasn’t happy with having Jiang Yanli as his fiancée. After giving it serious consideration, Jin Guangshan found his backbone and he agreed.

—Chapt. 18: Elegance VIII, fanyiyi

We get him hand-making kites with her to decorate for Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, and the rest of the disciples to play with:

Back when Wei Wuxian lived at Lotus Pier, he had played the kite shooting game with the disciples of the Jiang Clan and had placed first many times. ... Jiang Fengmian had constructed the frame himself and Jiang Yanli had drawn the design. Thus, whenever Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng had taken their kites out to compete, they had felt a kind of pride.

—Chapt. 32: Morning Dew V, fanyiyi

We get them having family dinners often enough that Wei Wuxian seems worried that he would miss one right before the Wen show up to Lotus Pier:

Wei WuXian asked, “Uncle Jiang went out so early in the morning —why hasn’t he come back yet? Would he make it in time for dinner?”

—Chapt. 57: Poisons, exr

We get him having no qualms with Jiang Yanli's hobbies such as cooking, even seems eager to partake in her creations—if we assume he hasn't before:

With a smile, Jiang YanLi wiped Wei WuXian’s mouth and chin, and walked happily out with the bowl in her hands. Jiang FengMian sat down where she had been sitting. Glancing at the porcelain jar, he seemed as if he wanted to taste it as well, but the bowl had already been taken away by Jiang YanLi.

—Chapt. 56: Poisons, exr

The reason why Jiang Cheng thinks his father hates him is because he takes any whiff of disapproval from his father to mean hatred, a trait he picked up from and that is nourished by his mother's own insistence that Jiang Fengmian "must" hate her son for being like her:

The founder of the YunmengJiang Sect, Jiang Chi, was born a rogue cultivator. The ways of the sect were honest and unrestrained. Madam Yu’s manners were the exact opposite. And, both Jiang Cheng’s looks and personality took after his mother. He hadn’t ever been to Jiang FengMian’s liking. Since birth, he taught him in many ways, yet he still couldn’t change, which was why Jiang FengMian had always seemed as though he didn’t favor him too much.

—Chapt. 56: Poisons, exr

The founding father of the Jiang Clan of Yunmeng, Jiang Chi, came from a knight-errant background. The family was exuberant, honest, magnanimous, and carefree in its ways —all of which were in complete opposition to Madam Yu’s spirit. Jiang Cheng took after his mother in looks and personality, which had never been to Jiang Fengmian’s liking. He had tried to educate Jiang Cheng in a myriad of ways, but it had all been for naught. This was why it always appeared as though he didn’t favor his son.

—Volume 3, Chapt. 12: Sandu: The Three Poisons, 7seas

Notice how it doesn't say that Jiang Cheng, himself, was never to Jiang Fengmian's liking, but that Madam Yu and her personality type that Jiang Cheng inherited was never to his liking, and it only "seemed/appeared" that Jiang Fengmian did not favor his son because he spent a lot of time trying to correct Jiang Cheng's bad habits, something Jiang Cheng resented. Notice how it also does not say that Jiang Fengmian avoided or ignored his son. In fact, we are told that he tried different ways to teach Jiang Cheng, a futile action we see him still committed to even up to the fall of Lotus Pier. Jiang Fengmian never gave up on his son. Jiang Cheng gave up on himself as Jiang Fengmian's son. None of that has to do with how the Jiang Fengmian and Jiang Yanli interacted in life nor how Jiang Yanli felt about her parents in death, still visiting their tablets regularly to clean and talk to them:

Jiang YanLi was kneeling in the ancestral hall. She cleaned her parents’ memorial tablets as she whispered. Wei WuXian poked his head inside, “Shijie? Talking to Uncle Jiang and Madam Yu again?”

—Chapt. 71: Departure, exr

To say that Jiang Fengmian is a terrible father simply because Jiang Cheng is more comfortable believing his mother’s lies than understanding that unconditional love does not mean unconditional tolerance for poor behavior does Jiang Fengmian’s character a disservice. To say that Jiang Fengmian is a terrible father to Jiang Yanli based on Madam Yu and Jiang Cheng’s own fantasies of victimhood is just an extra unnecessary lie to give credence to an idea that the story proves untrue. At worst, Jiang Fengmian was a man reserved in physical displays of affection that could have stood to hug his son more if that was what Jiang Cheng truly wanted. But if we are being truthful, Jiang Fengmian's just a regular fucking guy juggling raising kids and leading a clan with deterring his abusive wife from turning his home into a battlefield any time she deigns to show her face. Whatever issue you think Jiang Yanli and Jiang Cheng should have with their upbringing, the locus of the problem is named Yu Ziyuan, not Jiang Fengmian.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

But Madam Qin explicitly did not want to doom Qin Su to the incest marriage. When she got the wedding invitation even after warning JGY she fainted dead away on the spot and died of depression shortly afterwards and could only bring herself to warn Bicao on her death bed.

I assume this is in response to my tags on this post about "plot holes" in MDZS, in which my exact words were "JGY and Madam Qin decided quietly dooming QS to the incest marriage was the best option." Deciding that something is the best option is not the same as wanting it. Deciding to amputate a gangrenous limb so the infection doesn't spread and kill me doesn't mean I want to chop my arm off, it means I've determined that this is the least-damaging option available to me.

I totally agree that Madam Qin did not want her daughter to marry her own half-brother, which is why I picked that option as the plot hole that is the hardest to give a Watsonian explanation for using the text alone. The other things listed on that poll don't impact the plot overmuch and can be explained based on other behavior we've seen from the characters and/or other expressly-stated events or aspects of the setting itself. Qin Su's pregnancy, however, is a fairly major plot point, and it being treated as something 100% inescapable where the only options are disgrace or a timely marriage, is contrary to what we know about this world and these characters. Madam Qin is not granted the privilege of having a character to begin with; all we know about her is that Jin Guangshan raped her, she kept this a secret, and that Jin Guangyao and Qin Su marrying despite her attempts to prevent it was so distressing to her that she died. Given that she so desperately wants her daughter to avoid being trapped in this marriage, but Qin Su is already pregnant, why is abortion not considered? There are possible explanations, but all of them require the reader to invent them wholecloth, because nothing we are told about her facilitates an explanation. Again, "doesn't want the incest marriage" is her primary personality trait. This is counter to that.

I do not feel it is reasonable to assume that abortifacients simply don't exist in the MDZS universe, because they exist--and have existed throughout history--in real life. They might not be safe, and they might not be effective, and they may be viewed as immoral depending on the cultural norms, but they exist. The MDZS world has magic. We see multiple characters casually walk off stab wounds even if they're of middling cultivation level. If Ancient Fantasy China's medical knowledge allows someone to successfully transplant Xiao Xingchen's entire eyes into Song Lan's head--a surgery that was only accomplished in the real world last year, with no vision in the transplanted eye--then surely abortion exists.

Meanwhile, Jin Guangyao would 100% know about abortion. He grew up in a brothel. Brothels sell sex. Sex sometimes causes unplanned pregnancy. Pregnancy for someone working in a brothel is generally a liability to be dealt with. There is no indication that we cannot apply these assumptions to the brothel in Yunping. Ergo, Jin Guangyao would know and should have at least considered it for Qin Su. There is no indication that he does.

Now--and I'm putting this in bold because this website can't read--that does not mean that there is no possible way for events to unfold as they did. There are many reasons why Madam Qin and Jin Guangyao would both disregard abortion as an option. If neither of them is willing to tell Qin Su the truth, they would need to give her drugs or treatment without her consent, and perhaps neither of them was willing to do that. Perhaps Jin Guangyao in his childhood witnessed self-induced abortions gone wrong and was unwilling to expose Qin Su to that risk, unconvinced that her social status would allow her access to better, safer care. Perhaps Madam Qin, struggling alone during her own unwanted pregnancy, had a bad experience of her own or was given bad information that convinced her abortion would be too dangerous. Maybe MDZS is like the Star Wars universe and is garbage at reproductive care specifically. Or something else entirely! The issue is that abortion is never considered within the text itself at all--not by the two parties in the know at the time, not by the peanut gallery listening to Bicao, and not by anybody interrogating Jin Guangyao at Guanyin Temple. And given how important the pregnancy is as a plot point, that's an issue!

[robsterskellington]

I wrote more of the "What if Wei Wuxian remembered everything that was going to happen and changes as much of the outcomes as possible". If anyone as any name suggestions for this messy, self indulgent fic, I'd love to hear them!

Part one:

Part two:

Part three:

Ultimately, Wei Wuxian decided not to create the Yin Tiger Tally. It was too dangerous, and he couldn't risk the dangers caused by it. Besides, he wasn't alone, so he didn't need to depend too heavily on his powers this time. He didn't go off and do his own thing anymore, he paid attention to the plans made by each Clan Leader and followed any orders needed. He'd occasionally put his own input in through Jiang Cheng, but that was it. There was one exception; Wei Wuxian knew what happened in the future, and knew of one thing he definitely wanted to prevent, so he went to the camps where Clan Leaders Nie and Jin were, and thanked all the Gods in the Heavens that he made it in time.

This was when Meng Yao proved that he was willing to do anything in his power to prove himself to his father, and become Jin Guangyao. Wei Wuxian managed to tip off the soldiers that stole Meng Yao's ideas that the man was *pissed*, and got them to flee. Meng Yao had grabbed a Wen Clan sword, but upon seeing that there was nobody around, flinched when he heard footsteps behind him, "I've heard about you from Lan Zhan. You saved his brother. It's Meng Yao, right?"

"Aha. Yes, that's me." Wei Wuxian watched him try to discard the sword discreetly, before facing the Demonic Cultivator, "Wei Wuxian, I presume? Might I ask why you've cornered me? I always assumed that flirting with *women* was your preference."

That made Wei Wuxian laugh, and Meng Yao was stunned by how young the man before him sounded. Obviously he'd heard the unsavoury rumours, but he never imagined that the Founder of Diabolism was barely of age. Wei Wuxian wiped his eyes, "Ah, sorry. Yes, I do like women, however I won't lie that the person I have my heart set on is a man. You're feeling the same way, right?"

"...how did you know that?" Meng Yao hid his feelings well, or so he thought. But it's true that while protecting Lan Xichen, he found his heart swaying. However, his feelings had to be pushed aside if he wanted his father's approval, to prove himself worthy of the Jin Clan.

"I can't say. But you're not as talented as a liar as you think." Wei Wuxian looked at him, "...don't chase after something just because you think you want it. Sometimes you need to follow your heart, as cliché as that sounds. Where would your heart lead you to?"

*To Lan Xichen*, is what Meng Yao thought of immediately. He couldn't deny wanting to spend more time with him. Rescuing him had been the best decision he'd ever made, especially when he knew that Lan Xichen cared about him too. This was stupid! "Why should I listen to you, someone I've heard has the habit of flirting with anyone with a pretty face? I'm hardly going to take your advice. Besides..." he snarled quietly, his calm facade dropping, "I've had nothing all my life, I've only been regarded as... as the son of a prostitute..."

"You were always gonna be doomed to that narrative, considering who your father is. I don't know about your mother, all I know is that regardless of her profession, she'd have only wanted you to be happy, no?" That made Meng Yao freeze, his perspective slightly altered- out of the two of them, Meng Yao's mother was pure compared to Jin Guangshan, who would sleep with any woman he took a liking to, regardless of what his wife felt about it. Yes, his mother was a prostitute, but she admitted that she made her choice, as did all the women he grew up with. Obviously it wasn't always as simple as just a choice, prostitution was what some of the women did just to survive.

"...bold, insinuating that Jin Guangshan is no more than a prostitute, Wei Wuxian." He hid a smile when Wei Wuxian showed zero remorse for his words. Meng Yao looked away and sighed, "I don't want to just be a nobody."

"You aren't." Wei Wuxian and Meng Yao froze when that booming voice interrupted them. Nie Mingjue came up, a snarl on his face, "I found out that Clan Leader Jin still didn't accept you, and that your plans were stolen. You were about to take revenge, weren't you?"

"I was. I'm sorry." He meant it, this time. His blood had cooled, and his mind was clear. Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue never had to be there for him, but they were. They were the ones who made him happy, and ignored his heritage. It was embarrassing that it took a man who's cultivation path was dark as night to show him the light. "...forgive me, da-ge. But I can't go through with seeking my father's acknowledgement."

"Good. You're better than that coward, anyway." Nie Mingjue had found himself surprisingly relieved that Meng Yao changed his mind. Jin Guangshan barely cared about his legitimate son, never mind the countless offspring he'd created through paying women off, or simply raping them if they refused. He was an utter scumbag. Nie Mingjue had listened the entire time, having followed Meng Yao's footsteps- he hummed, "...you should talked to Lan Xichen. I think he'd be good for you."

"You think so, too?" It was one thing having an outsiders perspective, but now someone he *trusted* was saying the same thing. All his hard work would be going down the drain if he did this, but... he'd be a Hell of a lot happier. "...where is he?"

"I'll take you to him. Wei Wuxian, thanks for the assistance. You should probably meet up with Second Brother Lan, he's just come back from his own battle." Nie Mingjue simply walked away with Meng Yao after that, and Wei Wuxian took the opportunity to see his future husband.

****

Things mostly stayed the same with the Sunshot Campaign, just with Wei Wuxian's powers being more controlled and with Meng Yao having spoken to Nie Mingjue about his infiltration plan first. While Meng Yao waited for his opportunity to strike, Jiang Cheng lead the attack from behind the main pagoda, while Wei Wuxian summoned the dead to attack from the front. He held a calm in his heart from simply allowing himself to be happy- he had his siblings, he had the Wens who'd changed sides and became friends, and he also had Lan Wangji. They weren't as close as he'd like, but knew that he just had to be patient.

"Wei Ying!!"

He was interrupted from his thoughts by Lan Wangji sprinting to him across the battlefield- he immediately commanded any zombie to stay away from him and moved his flute away from his mouth, worried, "Lan Zhan? What's wrong, did something happen?!"

But Lan Wangji just looked worried for *him*. That was when Wei Wuxian remembered this scene: he'd been angry that Lan Wangji stopped him, not understanding that the man was just scared of him losing control. Sure enough, "You're using too much resentful energy. I don't want you to lose control."

"I can keep control, I promise. I just need to hold this up until Meng Yao and Clan Leader Nie can finish the job from the inside." Wei Wuxian's words didn't seem to ease Lan Wangji's mind, so he smiled softly, "...you've always made me happy, and kept me calm. If you're that scared, then... stay with me?"

"Will that help you?" He ignored the racing of his heart at Wei Wuxian's words, just focusing on the man's health. Wei Wuxian nodded, and Lan Wangji simply stood beside him, "Once the signals are shot, you can stop. And I'll help you lay the zombies to rest. Does that work for you?"

"That's perfect, Lan Zhan." He resumed his flute playing, his eyes glowing red, but his control had improved tenfold. If he had to be honest, Lan Wangji really did calm him down whenever he was upset or stressed. Even back at the Cloud Recesses, for whatever reason, Wei Wuxian was always drawn to him- wanting him to smile and banter with him, encouraging him to try spicy foods, but he also couldn't deny enjoying being chased whenever he broke a rule and Lan Wangji had to catch him. It was obvious looking back that Wei Wuxian had always been in love, but he somehow hadn't realised it.

Lan Wangji watched Wei Wuxian as his body radiated black energy, his eyes glowing the same crimson that his spiritual energy once had, but that it was still *him*, despite everything. He felt terrible for doubting him, but knew that even Wei Wuxian had his own doubts about his control. They'd spent time together whenever possible, though Lan Qiren wasn't happy about it- Lan Xichen on the other hand, had been absolutely delighted that Lan Wangji was allowing himself to try. He'd always been confused as to why it was Wei Wuxian he'd fallen in love with, but maybe the answer just simple: he liked who he liked with no reason. Obviously he saw Wei Wuxian's flaws, but also saw the person as a whole, and didn't bother to deny his heart anymore.

Their thoughts were interrupted by the sound of four explosions: each firework shot into the air baring the insignia of the four Clans. Wei Wuxian stopped playing and looked up with a grin, "We won... Lan Zhan, we won!!"

"We did... it's finally over..." they looked at each other, and neither of them could stop their smiles. Wei Wuxian was always more affectionate, and couldn't help giving Lan Wangji a hug. He'd never gotten to celebrate in the moment last time, but now he did. Lan Wangji had frozen, though only for a moment, before holding Wei Wuxian close, hugging him tightly. They held each other for a while, before realising that they *really* needed to get rid of the zombies.

Flute and zither played together, their performers in sync with one another, the zombies on the battlefield slowly turning to dust, their bodies and souls returning to the earth. Once it was just the two of them, Wei Wuxian smiled at Lan Wangji, "It'll take time for everything to settle, but once it does, I'll come back to Guzu with you. That is, if your uncle is okay with that?"

"Mn. He's still not pleased with this path, but I don't want you to feel like you're not welcomed." He hesitated, "You mentioned wanting to use your dark arts for good. My uncle is an intelligent man, so perhaps he can help you to find a way to do that."

"I can only hope. I didn't choose this power, but I'll make it my own." He put his flute away and they both headed to the main part of Nightless City together. Wei Wuxian looked down suddenly, "...have you... told anyone about my 'situation'?"

"No. It's nobody's business but yours and Clan Leader Jiang's." Lan Wangji didn't even want to think what people would say to Wei Wuxian if they found out he didn't have a Golden Core and no spiritual energy. But it did lead to another question: "Why are you still carrying Suibian?"

"A sword is still good for self defence and protection, even if I can't use it normally. Besides, I'm still a cultivator, it's disrespectful for me to not carry my sword." All of that was true, but then Wei Wuxian's voice grew soft, "Besides, this is the last thing I have of Uncle Jiang. I want to keep Suibian with me."

Those words made Lan Wangji's hand reach for Bichen, saddened. Thinking about it, while Lan Wangji lost both of his parents, Wei Wuxian lost all *four* of his. "...I'm sorry, Wei Ying."

"Don't be. None of it was your fault. You suffered just as much." The Cloud Recesses had been burned, and multiple members of the Lan Clan slaughtered. The Jiang Clan suffered a lot more, but there was no use in pointing that out. It wasn't a competition, there were no winners.

They got to the main pagoda, where Nie Mingjue had Wen Ruohan's head mounted on a stick, everyone cheering as the Wen Clan flags were burned. Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji found Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen, who was helping Meng Yao out of the Wen Clan robes. Their plan went off perfectly, though a lot of lives were still lost. Jiang Cheng grinned upon seeing Wei Wuxian and ran over, "We fucking did it!! You did amazing with those zombies."

Wei Wuxian hugged him tightly and laughed, "I had some help. Lan Zhan helped me to keep control." Lan Wangji's ears went red at that, but Wei Wuxian just sighed, "It's gonna take weeks to clean everything up."

"Don't worry, we'll get you to Guzu as soon as possible." His expression turned serious, "*Are* you okay?"

"I am. But I definitely need a break from using this power for now, though I'll doubt I'll get it for a while." They looked towards Jin Guangshan, who was staring at the wall murals with disdain, "He still harbours a hatred for the Wen remnants, despite all of them being indoctrinated into the other Clans. I might be able to get him to calm down if I use the dead Wens to destroy the murals and anything to do with their history."

"Mn. That should satisfy the Jin Clan." Lan Wangji hoped so, at least. He knew that the Jin Clan might try and dominate like the Wens had attempted to, but none of them would let them. Jin Guangshan shouldn't be able to do what Wen Ruohan nearly did. But that was for then. Now? They needed to rebuild their homes and recover after the war.

****

By the time Wei Wuxian was able to travel to Guzu, a social event stopped him from doing so, as he had to help represent the Yunmeng Jiang Clan. The Lanling Jin Clan were hosting a Flower Festival to celebrate the end of the Sunshot Campaign, and the beginning of a fresh start. Obviously Jiang Cheng wanted Wei Wuxian by his side for that, even if he wasn't the same. He went to see if his older brother was ready, and froze slightly.

Wei Wuxian was wearing the purple robes of the Jiang Clan, and his hair tied back up. Suibian hung by his side, while his flute- Chenqing he learned the name was- was nowhere to be seen on his person, it was on the side table nearby. It was obvious that Wei Wuxian was trying to go back to how he was, but... with how thin he'd gotten, and his paler skin, he just didn't look like himself. Wei Wuxian himself knew this, and was staring at his reflection with disgust.

"Wei Wuxian. Don't be someone you're not." Jiang Cheng's words were blunt, but they were exactly what was needed; they didn't want him to wear the Demonic Cultivator robes, because he *wanted* to represent their Clan properly. Besides, purple always suited him, just as much as black and red. He hummed, before grinning and pulling the ribbon out of Wei Wuxian's hair, letting it flow freely, though then used the ribbon to tie some of it back, away from his face. After that, he took Chenqing and had Wei Wuxian add it to his belt.

Wei Wuxian looked at himself in the mirror again, and found himself with a soft smile. It was a bizarre blend of both of his lifestyles, and... he *loved* it. He'd go back to his black and red robes when he got the chance, especially after he remembered that Yu Ziyuan had them made for him when he became Head Disciple- he'd been stunned when Jiang Fengmian told him. He turned to Jiang Cheng and nodded, "This is me. And I'm ready when you are."

"Are you sure you want to carry Suibian? If someone finds out about-"

"If they do, then they do. I'm still a cultivator, just not a traditional one. I won't do anything stupid, so I'll have no reason to unsheathe it." He grinned, "I won't embarrass you, I promise."

"...you're not an embarrassment." Jiang Cheng looked down- aside from Jiang Yanli, Wei Wuxian was the only family he had left, and Wei Wuxian showed his trust in Jiang Cheng over and over and over again. It was about time he actually *talked* with him. "Wei Wuxian, I... I'm sorry. I've always been jealous, because you're... well, you're better than me at everything. You're the most skilled in the Six Arts in Yunmeng, and obviously dad... loved you with all his heart. I can never surpass you."

"Jiang Cheng. Don't try to surpass me, just try and improve yourself." Wei Wuxian looked at him with a serious expression, "Don't try and be better than me, just better yourself. You're not meant to be stuck in my shadow, and there's no need for comparisons. I have talent, but that's because just like you, I trained a lot. Some of it is natural, but so are your skills- you always know where to go, no matter where we are, for example. You never get lost."

That was true. Jiang Cheng just always had an inkling on where to go when needed. He was the one to find all targets in the games, knew where was best to go on Night Hunts, and when they got separated after the Xuanwu of Slaughter's rampage, he knew exactly where to go to get back to Yunmeng, even though he'd never gone down certain routes before. Because of this, he was a natural leader when it came to showing others where to go, or simply leading people with direction. He was always going to be jealous, but then had to remember that *he* was the one who rebuilt the Jiang Clan in Wei Wuxian's absence.

He sighed and shook his head, "It's hard to not be envious. Especially when I've always looked up to you, Wei Wuxian." Jiang Cheng truly did- at first, he was angry about this orphan boy that he suddenly had to share everything with, except his puppies who were sent away. But when he later understood that he and his family were all Wei Wuxian had, he took the brother role incredibly seriously, just as Jiang Yanli took being an older sister again seriously. "You mean a lot to me, and I always wanted to be like you. But I'm always second best in comparison to you."

"Like I said, we need to stop with the comparisons. You are you, just as I am me. I'm sorry that I ever made you feel like this, I swear that you and Shijie are the last people I'd ever wanna hurt." Wei Wuxian hugged Jiang Clan tightly, "...I love you both, with everything I am. And if I can go back to normal, as much as I possibly can, I want to be able to keep my promise- you're the Clan Leader, and I'll be your subordinate. Just like our fathers."

Jiang Cheng held onto him, closing his eyes. Demonic Cultivation had definitely changed Wei Wuxian, but not in a way anyone had expected; he was more mature and serious, just wanting to make sure that he didn't mess up. It was obvious that he was wary of his own power, despite his perfect control over it. They just hugged for a while longer, before Jiang Cheng murmured, "I love you, too. I'm grateful that I have you... and I'll try and stop feeling like this."

"You can always talk to me if I'm making you feel like this, or talk to Shijie, she'll know what to say more than I will." He chuckled, knowing that unless it was teasing or flirtatious, he was actually pretty terrible with his words. "You're not alone, Jiang Cheng. I'm going to see about going to Guzu once this festival is finished, but you already know you're welcome there. Old Man Lan seemed to approve of you, it was just me he didn't like, for reasons that are now painfully obvious."

Jiang Cheng hesitated before tilting his head, "Why didn't you ever tell us that the reason you harassed Lan Wangji so much was because you liked him?"

"...I honestly don't know. I know you'd have all accepted me. Hell, I think Madam Yu would've been happy with me doing something other than causing chaos." They both laughed at that, before Wei Wuxian smiled weakly, "I don't think I understood at the time how I felt. And Lan Zhan isn't the best at expressing his emotions, he's stated that time and time again. Now, I... I know how I feel, and I don't wanna fuck this up. I've never felt like *this*, and..."

"Just try and tell him at some point. I think he needs to know." Jiang Cheng sat down at the table nearby and looked up at him, "You didn't see him when you went missing. He tried so hard to maintain that demeanour of his, but failed. Lan Wangji was extremely worried about you, and he still is. When he found out that you were gone, he spent days awake looking for you."

"Lan Zhan *did* find me. I just couldn't tell him where I was in case he looked for me." Wei Wuxian recounted how Lan Wangji found his soul using Inquiry, but because he had been stuck in the Burial Mounds, he was afraid that Lan Wangji would put himself in danger trying to save him. Wei Wuxian smiled weakly, "I owe him. And I... I won't lie, I want to have a future with him, Jiang Cheng. But because I've always been joking and stupid, I'm terrified that he'll think I'm being insincere."

"I think he'll know. But I think you should definitely take your time with him, and just let yourself be happy." Jiang Cheng weakly smiled at him, "I'd rather you be happy, than be my subordinate. You'll have the opportunity to talk to him anyway, the Twin Jades are at the festival as well."

"Then I'd definitely better be on my best behavior. Don't wanna be kicked out of Guzu before I even set foot there!"

*****

The Flower Festival was truly beautiful, everyone celebrating and having a good time, enjoying the beauty that Lanling had to offer. Lan Wangji was speaking with his brother, Meng Yao- who was now wearing the white robes of the Guzu Lan Clan- and Nie Mingjue, when they saw Jiang Cheng approaching, Wei Wuxian at his side, a big smile on his face upon meeting Lan Wangji's gaze. Lan Wangji's ears tinted red upon seeing how happy Wei Wuxian looked; he'd kept some of his new path by having Chenqing by his side, and his hair loose, but otherwise he looked just like he'd used to. The blend of past and present really suited him, though the black and red robes he used to wear suited him more than the purple, in his eyes.

Lan Xichen smiled warmly and bowed, "Young Master Wei, I have to thank you." Wei Wuxian looked stunned, but then Lan Xichen continued, "I... was never going to be brave enough to admit my feelings. And now, I have the man I love beside me, though..."

Wei Wuxian tilted his head and Meng Yao smirked, "Now that I'm no longer interested in being in the Jin Clan, suddenly my father has a *lot* of interest in me. But I'm done with that mess." He looked at Lan Xichen, who nodded and Meng Yao spoke softly, "This is a formal invitation to the Jiang Clan- would you both attend our wedding?"

Jiang Cheng's jaw dropped and Wei Wuxian beamed, "Count me in! I'd love to celebrate with you. Congratulations, both of you."

Lan Wangji smiled at seeing his older brother find his life partner- most men from Guzu tended to only fall in love once, which could end happily, or in tragedy. He looked towards Wei Wuxian, who smiled at him, before Jiang Cheng had to drag him off for duties. Wei Wuxian knew he needed to talk to Lan Wangji; even if he couldn't change much else, he knew that he at least wanted to have the same ending he'd gotten in his second life.

They approached the main palace and were immediately met by Jin Zixuan, who hesitated before asking, "How is Maiden Jiang?"

Before, Wei Wuxian had punched him for daring to ask after the 'soup incident', however knowing what he did now, he wasn't about to ruin anything. He still wanted Jin Ling to come into the world, after all. So, he kept his mouth shut and trusted Jiang Cheng to take the lead.

"She's fine, and she'll be happy to know you asked." That was an obvious lie- after what happened, Jiang Yanli had appeared to have given up on Jin Zixuan. Wei Wuxian just nodded as his own response, but Jin Zixuan clearly didn't believe them.

He sighed, "...I really fucked up, didn't I? Wei Wuxian, I thought a lot about what you said, and I'm ashamed to admit that I think you're right. I was childish, and..."

"There's no need for that." Wei Wuxian faced him properly and sighed, "You've... got a lot of making up to do, just make sure it's not just to soothe your guilty conscience. It's gotta be for my Shijie as well." He wished that telling people he knew everything that would happen in the future didn't make him sound like a lunatic- if he could tell Jin Zixuan to simply trust the process and that he'd discover that Jiang Yanli was the perfect wife for him, that they'd have a son who follows his footsteps, he would do. "If it helps, well... she enjoys cooking, and trying new foods. Her favourite food is pork rib and lotus root soup, so maybe you could try making that for her, sometime."

Jin Zixuan slowly started to light up, especially when Jiang Cheng hummed, "She loves flowers, too. But not like, presented as a bunch, or thrown. She loves to see them growing, so maybe if you grow something in a pot, and show her, that would definitely impress her."

The brothers knew what they were doing, they knew Jiang Yanli better than anyone, and knew how to make others happy. Then again, they had to be careful with their gift suggestions, remembering what happened when they pretended Jiang Fengmian gave Yu Ziyuan a bunch of gifts to cheer her up after they had another argument. The less said about that incident, the better.

"Thank you. Both of you." Jin Zixuan bowed to them, and sighed, "I'll make it up to her. Even if she decides that... we're never going to be together, I can at least attempt to make up for all these wrongs."

They bowed back, but both of them looked at each other: *If he upset or hurt her again, they'd kick his ass*.

Wei Wuxian felt eyes on them and turned to see Lan Wangji, clearly wanting to talk to him, but being unsure how to approach. He excused himself, and went to Lan Wangji with a grin, "Lan Zhan. I'm not that unapproachable, am I?"

"Of course not, Wei Ying. How are you feeling?" He looked concerned- things had been moving extremely quickly, so nobody was able to get a lot of rest. To Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian looked exhausted, his eyes being what betrayed him. Truthfully, Wei Wuxian had been working overtime, because he knew what would happen if he didn't. The Wen remnants were all safe, and he wanted it to stay that way- the carvings on the walls, every major monument, Wei Wuxian had Wen Clan zombies destroy, and he was thankful that people like Jiang Ning and Jiang Qing didn't hold it against him. Lan Wangji saw his expression then asked softly, "Please will you return to Guzu with me tonight?"

"Yeah. That was the plan, anyway." Wei Wuxian chuckled at Lan Wangji's stunned expression, then sighed, "I'm *tired*, Lan Zhan. I wanna relax, and I wanna try cultivation again. Real cultivation. Plus..." he looked at Lan Wangji properly, "...I miss you. I miss Guzu, and I miss Lan Yuan. That little boy made me really happy when the Wens took care of me in Yiling. I just want to be with you all. So if you'll have me, *yes*, I'll come back to Guzu with you."

"...I miss you too, Wei Ying." Now it was Wei Wuxian's turn to be stunned, seeing as Lan Wangji never did or said much to reveal his true feelings before. Maybe being more honest with him had started to help Lan Wangji grow more confident, after all? Lan Wangji looked at him and nodded, "Thank you. We'll take you back once the festivities are over. Especially since Lan Yuan has been asking for you."

"He has?!" Lan Wangji couldn't help but smile faintly when he saw how overjoyed Wei Wuxian looked. That smile was what sent his heart racing, and he knew he had to protect it. He knew that the resentful energy had changed Wei Wuxian, but it was moments like this that reminded Lan Wangji that in his soul, it was the same Wei Wuxian who teased him, cared about him, and fought alongside him.

The Flower Festival continued, with people viewing aforementioned flowers, drinking and dancing, though the Clan Leaders mostly stayed inside and discussed what came next. Jiang Cheng had told Lan Xichen about Wei Wuxian's wish to travel to Guzu, which Lan Xichen considered welcome news- he knew his brother was smitten with Wei Wuxian, and it appeared that the feelings were mutual. If they could spend time together and allow their relationship to blossom, he'd be happy.

When the night came and the party died down,Wei Wuxian met up with Lan Wangji, Lan Xichen and Meng Yao- then he realised that to get back to Guzu safely, they'd have to ride their swords. Which he couldn't do anymore. He thanked the Heavens when Lan Wangji hummed, "You've... had a lot to drink. You can ride on Bichen with me. Stand in front, and I'll hold onto you."

"Ah, smart idea, Wangji." Lan Xichen cleared his throat, "I know you can hold your liqueur, Young Master Wei, but it's better to be safe than sorry."

"I won't argue, Zewu-jun. Thanks, Lan Zhan." He looked at Lan Wangji, thanking him over and over with his eyes. Lan Wangji gave him another rare smile, and held onto Wei Wuxian as they flew back home.

Wei Wuxian relaxed, for once. He never gave this a chance last time. Now he would. After all, Lan Wangji had proven time and time again that all he's ever done is care. Past, present or future, Lan Wangji's sincerity was always the same.

[mdzs-owns-my-ass-i-guess]

Sleep like the dead

@cullen-blue23

🧟😴😭(The ONE TIME Wen Ning decides to take a nap. The juniors find him and assume he’s passed on for good. Ugly crying ensues. He wakes up to find several teenagers bawling on him)

Funny story: one evening, when I was still living in the university dorm rooms, I fell asleep very early (it was still light out) because I was exhausted. My preferred sleeping position back then was hands on my chest, motionless, on my back, like a dead person.

My roommate came home from class at some point that evening and I suddenly woke up to someone shaking me, increasingly panicked, asking me if I'm dead on the verge of tears.

I just said "yes" and got back to sleep. (I do not remember this part, I just know I woke up briefly - my roommate told me this the next morning. Apparently she'd been shaking me for a while before I decided to respond!)

Anyways, enjoy!

"Oh, sweet, uncle Ning is here!" Lan Jingyi exclaims as he notices Wen Ning leaning against one of the large, wisteria trees in the bunny field, little fluff balls surrounding him. "I wonder if he has any new stories from his travels! I've had enough of old teacher Lan's lectures!"

"We only have about ten minutes or so until the next lecture, Jingyi." Zizhen reminds, in a tone that's more befitting to Lan Sizhui than himself.

"Yeah, but it's with senior Wei, so we can be a bit late. He is too, especially now that Sizhui is back and they're catching up." A laugh. "He gets so mopey whenever he and uncle Ning leave for more than a week, whining about his little radish forgetting about him or something!"

"C'mon, it's cute." Zizhen elbows him. "And anyway, Sizhui always brings us gifts so..."

"At least he does!" Jingyi says, accusingly side-eyeing Jin Ling. "Some of us are incredibly stingy!"

"Shut up, what am I, your sugar daddy?! Get a job!"

"I have a job, dumbass, I'm a cultivator!"

Jin Ling smiles, venomously. "Oh, really? I must have forgotten, that's how remarkable you are!"

"You fu-"

"Guys?" Zizhen interrupts, having gone ahead to greet Wen Ning. His voice is shaky and his complexion pale, "I-I think uncle Ning is - I think there's something wrong with him!"

Jingyi and Jin Ling quickly close in the distance and crouch to take a look at the man. He looks... like he always does. Pale, dead, you know - the fierce corpse aesthetic. But his eyes are closed, and he doesn't seem to be... moving. At all.

Jin Ling reaches to poke his hand. "Uncle Ning?"

Nothing. He frowns, and reaches to shake his shoulder. "Uncle Ning!"

There is no response. Wen Ning stiffly leans against the tree, expressionless, shadows and sunrays dancing on his face.

"Come on, this isn't funny, wake up!" Jin Ling tries again, hiding his worry behind apparent anger. "Wen Ning!"

Jingyi reaches to tug on one of Wen Ning's sleeves, vision increasingly blurry. "Wake up, why won't you wake up? Uncle Ning!"

Zizhen lets out a sob, joining his friends as they attempt to bring Wen Ning back to consciousness. But no amount of shaking or tugging or begging seems to work, and their words are increasingly broken by sobs .

"We-we need to - senior Wei - Sizhui - he's gone-" Jingyi tries, tears falling down his face as he slowly resigns to the reality of what is happening.

"Shut the hell up! He's not!" Jin Ling yells, the tears filling his eyes starting to fall, "He's - he's fucking dead already, how can someone die twice?!" And Jin Ling resumes trying to wake him up, poking his cheek. "Wen Ning, what the hell are you doing?! Open your eyes already!"

"How - how are we going to tell... how..." Zizhen mumbles, wiping his tears. "I don't want uncle Ning to be gone!"

"He's not!" Jin Ling insists, his face wet with tears, red from both anger and panic. "He's fucking not! He's - I -"

But the more he tries, the more he loses hope. This has never happened before, this isn't something they can fix. This isn't something anyone can fix, Wen Ning is really...

"Wake up! Wen Ning...! How dare you do this to me...! You said...!"

There are no more words now, no more attempts. The three juniors cry over Wen Ning's corpse, trying to will themselves to get one of their seniors and... and... Oh, uncle Ning really is gone now, he's gone and they'll never see him again, they'll never talk to him again, he won't ever tell them stories or help them with night hunts or scare off Jin Ling's annoying cousins or...or...or...

There is a grunt.

Wait. A grunt?!

Jingyi's head snaps up. "Guys!"

"Shut the fuck up, Jingyi!" Jin Ling cuts in, "I don't want to hear any of your-"

"Why are you guys crying...?" A new voice joins in, and the juniors attention snaps towards the source, where Wen Ning blinks wearily at them, as if awoken from a deep slumber. "Did something happen...?"

There is no response except three juniors now having jumped in his arms.

"Don't ever fucking do that to me again!" Jin Ling warns, "We thought you died!"

"Well, I already-"

"No, for good!" Jingyi adds, and makes no effort to hide how he's snuggling to the Ghost General's chest. "We tried to wake you up for so long and you just wouldn't!"

"And anyway, what's up with that? Fierce corpses don't sleep!" Zizhen asks, trying to get Jingyi to leave him some room on Wen Ning's chest.

"I found a potion... I missed sleep and wanted to experienced it again..."

"Yeah, well, warn us next time! Can you imagine how Sizhui would have reacted? Or senior Wei? Or even Hanguang-Jun?!"

"I will tell you next time, Jingyi. And do not worry, Sizhui didn't get scared the first time I took the potion... When I woke up, I found him calmly trying to invent...something to bring me back."

"Ah yes, the senior Wei instinct."

---

The juniors don't show up to class, so Wei Wuxian goes to find them and scold them about it - after all, they can flunk, he doesn't mind that, just let him know!

So he storms through the Cloud Recesses, growing increasingly worried about where they could be - has something happened to them? Are they sick? Did they get cursed? Did they die?

And just as he's about to go grab Lan Zhan from his meeting with his brother because the kids are nowhere to be found, what if they got kidnapped or worse!

...he finds them.

And Wen Ning.

They're all snuggled together, napping underneath the large wisteria tree, bunnies around and on them.

The sight is so heartwarming that Wei Wuxian decides not to disturb them.

In fact, he decides he wants to nap too, and settles next to Jin Ling, leaning against Wen Ning's shoulder.

----

"Why does Hanguang-Jun look like that?" one Lan junior asks as he spots the man walking from the bunny field with a grim expression.

"It's the vinegar." the other replies, "Senior Wei must have done something that's gonna have us banned from being around the jingshi for three days again."

"Man, I wish that was me."

[robininthelabyrinth]

prompt 1: I'd love to see a niecest fic (where it is truly mutually requited, no hypnosis mindbreaks required; I'm a terribly softhearted romantic & just want to see them happy~) that incorporates your characterizations of the saber spirits somehow? Like, Baxia and Aituan, idk, end up like... bonded somehow by their masters getting together and that... maybe helps balance the qi deviations or IDK I WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY *cough* ok. yes. something. prompt 2: ohhhh I know. Jiang Cheng gets some sort of temporary story-convenient amnesia and assumes that (probably still a small child)!Jin Ling is his son, Jin Ling maybe... doesn't correct him for a bit? ("Wait whose kid is this. Did I give birth to a kid somehow. I mean I guess that might as well have happened, sure.") prompt 3: turns out Wen Qing was also being kept secretly alive but imprisoned by the Jin sect all this time, and Jin Ling discovers her in the aftermath of canon. Chengqing y/y? ANYWAY please feel free to select any of these that may strike your fancy, do not feel obligated to pick more than one or any of them, actually. (also I'd appreciate not having my name published as the prompter of any of these, if you don't mind. I don't think you do that, as a general rule, but just in case you might have.) P.S. I adore your work; every day that you post something is a day considerably brightened for me. and also the other days, because I do a lot of rereading. <3 <3 <3

prompt 1: I'd love to see a niecest fic (where it is truly mutually requited, no hypnosis mindbreaks required; I'm a terribly softhearted romantic & just want to see them happy~) that incorporates your characterizations of the saber spirits somehow? Like, Baxia and Aituan, idk, end up like… bonded somehow by their masters getting together and that… maybe helps balance the qi deviations or IDK I WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY cough

ao3

So. We're doing something about this, right?

Baxia stirred. Slowly, like a great big old rumbling beast that was actually quite fast when it wanted to be, which knew that there was nothing in the world that could hurt it and anything foolish enough to do so was destined to a terrible fate of being played with and then demolished. Cruelly. Viciously.

Without remorse.

Yes, she said with admirable patience. We will do something about...'this'.

Oh good, Aituan said, amazed, surprised, and relieved that he'd survived this far into the conversation. Baxia was scary, all right? There were masterless sabers less scary than her. Daughter of the dragon, one of the best-forged blades in the sect, and she'd been used to her full potential, too - basically the opposite of Aituan in every way shape or form, really. It's just, you know, my human's been leaking again and I hate it when that happens.

Nie Huaisang might have some faults as a human, Aituan would allow (mostly because Nie Huaisang would similarly allow, and even seemed a bit proud of), but he was an excellent master. Sure, he might not cultivate Aituan all that much - it was kind of amazing Aituan had a personality at all rather than being a lifeless hunk of metal - but that was fine! Aituan, infected by his master’s shaping, didn't especially want to be constantly cultivating anyway. They didn't need that, the two of them. They were chill.

I thought he'd stopped leaking in the bed once he'd reached the appropriately age..?

Not that type of leaking! Leaking from the face, I mean. Salt water.

Ah, Baxia said. Yes, my human does that, too. Quite a bit. I'd assumed it was a regular part of their function.

Aituan thought about what he knew about the senior Nie brother, who was a highly emotional sort of person - inclined towards wet eyes for a myriad of reasons, such as joy, sadness, rage, a bit of passing beauty, and even something Nie Huaisang very fondly called 'allergies'. He could see how Baxia might have reached that conclusion.

Well, my human doesn't do it very much at all, he said. Not for real, anyway. Only when he's unhappy.

Baxia didn't say anything.

This will make him less unhappy, Aituan added, because he might be a mute piece of metal, but silence was a little intimidating when the silence was Baxia's. That shit had weight, and heft, and maybe stabbing power. He thinks revealing the extent of his desires will lead your master to reject him.

Absurd.

I know! Your master is doting and meticulous with his affections. He would never turn his back on a beloved one.

Nie Mingjue had the stubbornness of a saber in that way, and Aituan meant that as a wholehearted compliment. 

True, Baxia said, sounding satisfied - like any saber, she approved of people speaking highly about her master. Not to mention that the underlying 'issue' seems rather...pointless.

I know! Aituan exclaimed. I mean, I have no idea why humans are so hung up on all that grinding and grunting stuff -

I believe it's associated with human reproduction. Maybe.

Only when you have compatible male-female pairs, but you don't see humans stopping with that, do you? Aituan sighed. His master was something of an expert on this subject. Males, females, multiples, solo...you know, I think they do it for fun. 

Baxia rumbled thoughtfully. Like training?

...I think they think it’s more fun than training, Aituan said, and tried to ignore Baxia's silent skepticism. Most humans, anyway; not necessarily yours. Humans are weird, okay?

The silence turned agreeable. That was something no saber would disagree with.

Anyway, put that aside. Let’s just take it as given that humans like grinding themselves against each other instead of against a proper whetstone, and that my master happens to very much want to grind against yours in particular. And yet he's tormenting himself and making himself unhappy and refusing to do anything about it because - you won't believe this - because they were forged by the same maker.

That’s the reason? Surely you jest.

I'm not, Aituan insisted. I asked my human about it specifically. That's the reason.

Baxia was displeased. That's ridiculous, she said. That's it? That's the cause of all this fuss?

Aituan was just happy someone finally understood his perspective about this whole fiasco. Nie Huaisang had a penchant for the dramatic, but he seemed quite earnestly distressed by this little non-dilemma, even after Aituan had assured him - having checked with Baxia - that his brother adored him unreasonably and would do anything he wished. He hadn't exactly appreciated Aituan's disbelief when he'd explained the issue, either - in the end, he'd just said that it was probably something sabers couldn't quite grasp. 

I thought it was something serious, Baxia complained. The way my master has been carrying on, you'd think he was doing something evil in even wanting to do it. But there's no evil here! We would know!

Naturally. They were Nie sect sabers, forged and cultivated to fight evil from the very start; no one knew evil better than they. 

And it's not as if my master's predecessor was any better. Look at the unusual ingredients he chose to use in forging his sons! Each one stranger than the next!

This was true. Nie Huaisang had once grown a tail in his sleep - Aituan had suppressed it on his behalf, naturally, and he was fairly certain that his master still regarded the entire event as a bad dream brought on by snacking excessively on that imported cheese from the south, but it had definitely happened. 

The old Sect Leader Nie had a lot to answer for, really. 

It would seem to solve a lot of problems for them to pair off together, Aituan agreed. They're a known quantity for each other, and it keeps either of them from bothering anyone else with their nonsense. They’d be able to pick forging ingredients for the next generation on the basis of logic rather than emotion. And they both want it! There's literally no problem here!

None at all that I can see, Baxia proclaimedwith a very reassuring tone of finality. We will fix this.

Yes!

And we will fix your cultivation as well.

Ye- wait, what?

My master’s cultivation has begun to exceed my own, Baxia explained. Humans don't have a consolidation period - they just keep growing even after they reach a breakthrough point. If he continues to grow at the current rate, he will exceed my reach within ten years.

That��wasn't good. It was in fact very bad.

The Nie sect practiced a complementary cultivation style, human and saber cultivating side by side along the path of the Great Dao. If the two ever fell seriously out of sync, they would increasingly risk qi deviation. Such a tragic end had been the fate of the Nie sect seniors whose sabers now rested in the saber tombs, and would likely consume their own masters eventually, absent some plan...

...which it sounded like Baxia had.

You are a weak cultivator, she said. Your master is, too. If we redirect my master's cultivation for the purpose of strengthening you and your master instead of increasing his own strength, it would add at least two dozen years to the timeline - and that will be enough for me to finish consolidating my own power and reach my own breakthrough, letting me match him once more. My master and I will then be able to cultivate side by side through the next period. 

Huh. That meant work for him, which Aituan didn't especially want, but much less work than if he were doing all the cultivating himself. And it'd be good for his master, not needing to worry about losing his brother at a young age...

All right, he said. Say, how long is the next period? Until you run into another consolidation period and we need to start worrying again?

Baxia considered the question. Not terribly long, she said. Perhaps 200 years? Perhaps 250?

That seemed reasonable enough, right? How long did humans live, anyway? 

Well, whatever. It was more than ten - his master ought to be thanking him (and Baxia!) for putting in so much effort on his behalf. 

That's fine, Aituan said. All right, we're in agreement. So...now what? 

[thebiscuiteternal]

Hey there,

Then maybe something for your OTHER beauty and the beast SangYao (?) AU?

I didn't even notice at first (I do love the snake one too), but I meant the one where Huaisang is on the run from wen soldiers, and stumbles into cursed Meng Yao's/Jin Guangyao's gothic mansion

(For those wondering, nonnie means the second concept in this post. Also, this ended up being a two-parter because I couldn't decide on POV and @micchikureshima made a good case for "por que no los dos?")

---------------

Meng Yao had long gotten used to the sound of water. With little material to use and no tools at all, his attempts to repair the roof of this place had amounted to practically nothing, and the house was in an area that practically invited rain.

So it wasn't the drumming and trickling from the holes in the roof that roused him from his dozing.

It was voices.

Immediately, he was on his guard. While it had been, according to his tally scratches on the wall of his room, over a year since the last time his father had sent opportunistic idiots his way, he wasn't stupid or hopeful enough to think the man had given up on getting rid of him.

Seeing no reason to make finding him easy, he gathered the shadows around him and let the fangs and fur come, then crept out the door to peer over the balcony.

His 'guests' were almost always rogues or outer disciples from some minor sect, looking to make a name for themselves and gain a little more prestige for their leaders at the grown-ups' table. The last time he'd made a notation under the day's tally mark for anyone from a major sect had been...

Well, he could refresh his memory later. It had been a very long time, at any rate, so he was more than a little surprised to see not one or two, but six cultivators wearing the white and red flames of the Wen sect gathered in a knot just inside the doors to the main hall.

For a moment, panic clawed its way up his throat, the fur down his spine and tail bristling on end. Had his father finally gotten so fed up with his existence as to pay for legitimate assassins? And he'd never had to fight this many before, what if they-

Wait... no... their attention was focused on something else. One of them viciously kicked a bundle of sodden green and grey clothing that lay on the floor, and Meng Yao couldn't help wincing when he realized that the 'bundle' was, in fact, a boy.

Wait... green and grey...

Why were a bunch of Wens chasing and abusing a Nie? Here? Admittedly, he couldn't keep track of anything like intersect politics when he couldn't even go out to the front yard, but according to what he'd heard on the way to meet his father, all of the major sects were in some sort of coldly polite stalemate. Had something drastic changed outside?

He didn't have time to ruminate on the question, as one of the cultivators finally looked up from their target, and then nudged another.

"Hey. Isn't this the house? The one Jin-zongzhu's always complaining about?"

The second man craned his neck to look around the main hall, then pulled a scroll sealed with a waterproofing talisman out of his sleeve and opened it.

A map.

His jail was on maps now?

Apparently so, because the man holding it grinned. "It is. Damn, today might actually be a good day if we could hand the little bitch and Jin-zongzhu's eternal gratitude to Wen-da-gongzi."

"Let's get to it, then," the one who'd kicked the boy -the one he assumed was the leader- said as he bent down and dragged the boy up by the hair. "Spread out in pairs and start laying-"

Oh, no.

No, no, no.

While it might have been easier to pick them off once they split up, he absolutely couldn't risk giving them time to start setting traps. The closest anyone had come to killing him had been the prick who'd decided to turn one of the few rooms that still had solid flooring into a maze of wire snares and then had chased him into it, and he was not putting up with that nonsense again.

A low growl building in his throat, he jumped up onto the balcony railing and then launched himself at the still speaking human, snapping his jaws shut on the man's neck before he'd finished giving the order.

The man immediately fell backwards under his weight to land on the floor hard, dropping the boy in the process, and he wrenched his head to finish tearing out the throat before whipping around to go for the next.

He'd managed to catch them off guard, but by the time he'd downed the second one, the last four had all drawn their swords.

Pulling the shadows from all the corners of the room, he dropped down through the floorboards and the reformed himself at their backs to maintain the element of surprise.

When the last cultivator fell dead, he stood in the doorway, head down, teeth bared, fur bristling, panting for breath in an effort to calm his defensive instinct back down. When he'd finally regained his composure, he slowly reconstructed himself back into his human shape before approaching the boy and rolling him onto his back to take a better look.

Huh. He'd be pretty if it weren't for the black eye and the dried blood under his nose. Despite having been roughly manhandled, his hair still held a number of intricate little braids and his clothing, though ripped and dirty and soaking wet, was of high quality.

A member of the inner family, maybe?

Curiosity ate at him, and the only way he'd get answers was if he made sure that the boy recovered enough to wake up.

Deciding he'd deal with the bodies of the other 'guests' later, he easily scooped the boy into his arms and headed deeper in the house towards one of the fireplaces he knew could still be used.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

While I do sympathise and agree that many of the ‘immoral’ thing JGY did were a direct response to others attacks on him, for survival and family normal or pragmatic behaviour (I honestly didn’t blame him for the incest at all, I agree there was nothing to be done; and I’m glad JGS died) I have some questions. Especially since you and another user mentioned that him being in power was better for more people (that he did things that benefitted others and him as a side effect too) - then how does one reconcile with what happened to the Tingshan He sect? And even the gamble he takes on JZX’s life by sending him after JZixun? That seems like self serving ambition…

Honestly, anything JGY did to get around or harm JGS and even NMJ, I agree. While one was better than the other, I don’t think either of them were great leaders, nor were they always reasonable, and he was likely a better leader than them.

(Also, I’ve heard varying accounts about the watchtowers being useful/useless, good intentioned and not, can you please point me towards the chapter that makes that clear?)

Thanks

hey anon, sorry for taking such a long time to respond to you! I believe that I answer most of the questions you raise here in my reblog over here, but I'll try to pull out the salient points for you in my reply. fwiw I'm not going to dig down into the jgy-jzx stuff because I think @lansplaining did a great job of that already over here, but my tl;dr version for myself is that I just think mdzs-jgy was mad, made a bad judgment call, and assumed that wwx would have more control over wn than he did.

okay, now to address the rest of your ask:

the tingshan he

the first thing to remember about the tingshan he is that jgy is demonstrably not in power when this sect is brought to xy's demonic cultivation wonderland. jgs is still the jin sect leader. I bring this up because I think it's important to acknowledge that the tingshan he were going to die whether jgy was present to serve as death's ferryman or not. their fates were sealed as soon as they began actively agitating against jgs's desire to establish the position of chief cultivator. here's the relevant sections I highlighted from the villainous friends extras:

as I pointed out in my linked reblog, what this shows us is two things: 1) jgy began with diplomacy and negotiation to try to bring the tingshan he to heel, and I believe we can reliably trust that this is true; if it weren't, he su would have protested this as a lie; and 2) in he su's own words, the tingshan he were prepared to oppose jgs's desires with violence.

however, anon, if you're hoping I'll write something here that will thoroughly cleanse the figurative blood of the tingshan he from jgy's hands (since he is not the one doing the actual killing--xy is), then that's not going to happen--just like there is nothing that anyone can write about wwx's actions vis-à-vis his gruesome murder of wang lingjiao, wen chao, and the other wen sect cultivators that he tortures, mutilates, and kills in the aftermath of the sacking of lotus pier that will remove their literal blood from his hands. I'm not going to say anything that will make one of these actions more morally (I hate this word now) redeemable than the other, because even though their circumstances are different, the acts themselves are still quite awful!

one thing I did not point out in my linked meta, however, and which I do think is significant to call out when examining the full context of the violence that jgy oversees, is the amount of control that jgy does not have over how xue yang chooses to kill the tingshan he. please note that these excerpts are pretty gruesome because, uh. well, canon-typical xue yang, pretty much:

so, on the one hand, xy clearly cuts out he su's tongue here because he is flinging the usual shitty insult at jgy, making a dig about his birth status and his mother. which, yay, thank you xue yang c': but also, jgy is clearly surprised that xy does not kill he su and the rest of his sect before giving them to the fierce corpses. then we have the paragraph that follows:

here, jgy is visibly disturbed by the cries of the children specifically, and though he doesn't step in to intervene, I still find his visceral reaction to what he is witnessing significant when considering his character and how he feels broadly about the violence he facilitates. because yes, he brought the tingshan he to this place knowing that they were going to be killed because of their political opposition to his father's plans. he knew that bringing them to the demonic cultivation grounds meant that they were going to be given to xy for his macabre body horror experiments to pursue demonic cultivation. neither of those things mean that he expected them to be ripped apart while still alive, or that he's emotionally or psychologically untouched by what his actions have brought about.

so... how should we reconcile /gestures @ all of this, The Horrors with all of the tangible good that jgy puts into the cultivation world later on? my short response is, the exact same way wwx stans reconcile wwx's Horrors with his later good deeds (tho as you've probably guessed I don't lean as much on inherent moral goodness or badness in my analyses). so to make this work, we also have to take a look at what constitutes jgy's good deeds. nb: this is essentially what I wrote in my reblog meta, but I'm going to copy/paste or paraphrase/lightly edit it here just to keep everything in one place:

jgy's tangible positive impact on the jianghu

the initial points I raised in my reblog meta (different link from above) emphasize the tangible positive impact that jgy's actions put into the world: peace and stability for both the gentry and the common people. here are the following points where I provide more support for my initial arguments.

his tenure as chief cultivator and jin sect leader objectively does preserve jin ling's place in the line of succession, because once he is gone, we see that jin ling's position is not secure. period. this is in the text. this isn't an opinion. [edit: there’s some good discussion between myself and @madtomedgar in the comments of this post wrt jgy, jl as heir, and how much responsibility jgy has for destabilizing his life in the first place.] from chapter 116, the "banquet" extra:

furthermore, jgy does rein in the fiscal corruption that had been rampant under jgs's tenure. we know this because the text tells us so in the "iron hook" extra (chapter 123):

beyond making it unquestionably clear that lanling is in a much shittier position now that jgy is gone, this part 👆is further confirmed in the official character index of the 7seas translation--which is not something I usually rely upon in my analyses, but it makes clear the broad perception of life in the jianghu under jgs vs jgy:

jgs's character summary: "Under [Jin Guangshan's] rule, the Jin Sect was loathed by the cultivation world for its shameless abuses, corruption, and excesses."

jgy's character summary: "Jin Guangyao rose from humble circumstances and became not only the head of the Jin Sect but also the Cultivation Chief of the inter-sect alliance. His work as an undercover spy was instrumental in the success of the Sunshot Campaign. His skill at politicking and networking is matched by none, and through restructuring and reparations he was able to largely make up for the damage done to the Jin Sect's reputation by his father's rule."

in one of these scenarios, corruption was rampant enough that everyone was unhappy. in the other scenario, that corruption was reined in, and that matters.

the jianghu is also objectively the safest and most peaceful it has ever been under jgy's tenure as chief cultivator, and I don't think this gets acknowledged enough. looking to chapter 45 when wwx and jl are talking about the past, and jl is sulkily pointing out that both his uncles became famous at "fifteen-or-so," wwx's own thoughts are:

Wei WuXian commented in silence, That’s not the same! Back then, the QishanWen Sect was still on top and everyone had to watch out. If they didn’t fight and cultivate as much as possible, who knew if they’d be the next one to run out of luck? During the Sunshot Campaign, you’d be hauled to the battlefields no matter if you were fifteen or any other age. Now, since the situations is stable and the sects are at peace, of course the atmosphere isn’t as tense and people don’t cultivate like they’re crazy. There’s no need anymore.

in other words (to paraphrase some commentary by @xiyao-feels) when the wen were in charge, the world was a shitty and dangerous place filled with war and violence--and now the world is peaceful, and kids like jin ling are allowed to grow up without the very real possibility of being marched off to war hanging over their head at all times. jgy is the chief cultivator who made this reality possible.

and a big part of why the jianghu is a more stable and peaceful place also comes down to the watchtowers, which is one of the points you specifically wanted more details on, anon! so we'll go to chapter 42 in the novel to look at them in more detail:

After Jin GuangYao officially succeeded the position of Sect Leader and became the Chief Cultivator, he immediately gathered people and resources from the sects, and started to carry out his past goals. In the beginning, the voices of opposition were deafening. A lot of people suspected that the LanlingJin Sect used it to gain personal benefits and stuff its own pockets. With a smiling face, Jin GuangYao persisted for five years. During the years, he allied but also fell out with countless people. Using both gentle and forceful methods, he did all that he could and what he wished for was finally completed. More than twelve hundred “lookout towers” had been built.

These “lookout towers” were scattered around the more remote places. Every one of them were assigned disciples from certain sects. If anything strange happened, they’d take action at once. When they couldn’t deal with the matter, they’d send out messages to other sects or rogue cultivators for help. Even if the cultivators who came wanted something in return while the locals were too poor to give them any, the money that the LanlingJin Sect gathered throughout each year would be enough to support them. [red emphasis mine]

All of these happened after the death of the YiLing Patriarch. Wei WuXian only heard the ins and outs from Lan WangJi after they passed a few lookout towers during their journey. Rumors had it that Koi Tower was preparing to build the next batch of lookout towers, increasing them to three thousand in number so that they covered a greater area. Although after the first lookout towers were built, they received widespread approvals due to their notable effects, the voices of suspicion and ridicule had never died either. When the time came, the cultivation world would definitely be thrown into chaos again.

five years!! that is a long-ass time to devote to a project, particularly one that costs him substantial political capital as well as actual money, if your only goal is the consolidation of political clout, because a lot can happen in the span of five years. it certainly isn't the right way to go about laundering money, since for a money laundering scheme to work, it has to actually, you know. pass through a system that is actually making money in the first place, which this one transparently was not. if it was a guaranteed money-maker, jgs would not have opposed wasting time on something that 👆(see above) clearly devotes lanling jin resources towards supporting the poor who cannot protect themselves. whatever the political opposition to the project by jin sect opponents, for the broader jianghu and the common people, the success of the watchtower program was a net positive. anyway: when acting exclusively under his own power and allowed to make his own decisions free of fear and danger, jgy is fundamentally not a destructive character. (thank you again, @confusion-and-more)

okay I think this should answer most of your questions, anon! please do hmu again if you want me to dig down into anything else, I am, as always, super happy to talk about jgy at the drop of a hat.

[llycaons]

im just going to make a complication post for it: this fic btw

His brother is excellent at small talk, at making people feel at ease, at saying the right thing at the right time. Lan Wangji, for his part, is excellent at silence, at staring at people until they feel uncomfortable enough to leave the room, and at reciting rules – in short, he is a model member of Gusu Lan and as such definitely not fit for public appearances.

so true he IS good at all that

Wei Wuxian proudly presented a self-drawn family portrait to his sister, who was thrilled and promised to hang it up in the main reception hall. When Jin Zixuan walked past it hours later, he saw that the picture showed his beautiful wife, their beautiful son, his two brothers in law, and a peacock. The peacock had a vermillion dot between its eyes.

oh this is hysterical. imagine jyl actually going along with that

“Say da-jiu. Can you say da-jiu? Da-jiu. Da-jiu. No? Let’s try Wei Wuxian. Wei Wuxian. Wei Wuxian. Really, nothing? Aiyo, we’ve been at this for so long now and you still insist on staying silent? I’m very disappointed in you. Hey, say Lan Zhan. Lan Zhan. Say Lan Zhan. Think of his face when he hears you say that. Think of Jin Zixuan’s face when he hears you say that! Do it for da-jiu. Look how simple it is. Lan Zhan!”

wwx WOULD teach his nephew to saw lwj's name

Can you believe he hasn’t said a single word yet?” “He’s two months old,” Jin Zixuan bites out. “Shijie was already speaking in full sentences at that age,” Wei Wuxian says with the confidence of someone who hasn’t actually met Jiang Yanli until she was eleven. “Must be your side of the family, I suppose.”

WHAT A DICK

But if he stays behind, then how can he know for sure that this event serves as the romantic bonding time he has planned? He knows that Wei Wuxian is a skilled cultivator...His attention won’t be captured by someone with lesser skills, he needs a match, someone who can keep the ever-fleeting interest of someone as scatter-brained as Wei Wuxian. Zewu-jun would have provided a pool of calm to Wei Wuxian’s restlessness, but even Nie Mingjue, for all his anger and intensity, has something solid about him. People look at him and see a man who will not yield for anyone. Jin Zixuan hopes that Wei Wuxian will look at him slay monsters today and see a man who will make for a good husband and a demanding, yet gentle lover.

I CAN'T

Wei Wuxian is sitting cross-legged on the mossy grass and appears to be weaving together the stems of several dandelions, occasionally throwing some of the petals in Lan Wangji’s direction, who steadfastly ignores him in his muted conversation with Nie Mingjue... They both look over at the rest of their group, where Wei Wuxian has finished his flower crown and is presenting it to Lan Wangji with a little flourish. Lan Wangji gazes down at it, then turns back to Nie Mingjue, who’s watching this display intently. Physically incapable of accepting defeat, Wei Wuxian now tries to deposit the dandelion crown on Lan Wangji’s head anyway; Lan Wangji takes one step to the side. Wei Wuxian changes tactics and makes a grab for Lan Wangji’s hand, equally unsuccessful. Wei Wuxian has finally given up and lets the wreath drop to the ground between them, his sulk visible even several metres away. He starts walking over to them, and in the background, Jin Zixuan sees Lan Wangji bow down to pick the crown back up, tucking it into his sleeve,

typical

“There is no shame in weakness,” he says, vaguely recalling his uncle’s advice. “There is only shame in failing to try.” “Um,” Nie Huaisang says.

help

Wei Wuxian still doesn’t understand boundaries, because he immediately invites Lan Wangji along – and, of course, he’s really obnoxious about it. “Of course, I’ll come to Qinghe,” Wei Wuxian says, eyes bright with the promise of adventure. “It’ll be nice, won’t it, Lan Zhan? Get a bit of a break from everyday sect life.”

he just assumes lwj will be there with him...

[dreamingsushi]

Till the End of the Moon - Episode 33

We are slowly approaching the end of this drama. The two main leads are at odd ends. We still have no clue as to how they’ll get rid of the evil bone. Up to this point there’s really nothing to guess right.

Jiumin hasn’t given up upon being together with Susu. Their biggest obstacle is the return of the demon god. So he wants to find a way to prevent him from ever coming back. And he wonders if Si Ying and the other demon knows anything since he himself knows nothing. So he goes to Huangyuan to find Si Ying and Jing Mie. What a dumb idea. Jing Mie is angry that Dimian escaped. Jiumin pretends to appear in front of Si Ying and Jing Mie as the demon god to ask questions, but he doesn’t get any useful info. They recognize him as just the future demon god and tell him there’s no way he’ll escape becoming the demon god because the evil bone is indestructible. The only one aware of the flaw of the demon god’s plan is the demon god himself.

Both Jiumin and Dimian went to see Susu at the same time. Both assuming the other one is there to harm Susu, they start fighting. Susu stops them and Dimian tells her to keep her distance from him, but he promises to keep his identity a secret and to not injure him as long as he doesn’t hurt her. Jiumin tells Susu about the other demonic object he merged with and admits he doesn’t know how to take it out. he asks if there’s a chance for them to start anew as Jiumin and Susu, but she’s still firm about them not being together. He swears that he’ll prove to her that he’s not the demon god. Now he gets to decide who he is. He’s not going to give up.

Monü, formerly Ye Bingchang, sends Nian Baiyu to Tantai Jin’s side so info will leak that Jiumin is the demon god fetus. It’s creepy, I don’t like saying it like this, but it kind of gets the bigger picture through a little better than future demon god. Jiumin speaks in favour of Nian Baiyu who was always loyal to him, so he’s accepted amongst the celestial. Yue Ya is in charge of getting Nian Baiyu settled down since he wants to remain by Jiumin’s side.

While he’ away hunting demons, Gongye Jiwu ends up finding the silk house Monü set up to hide the demon girls. She recognizes him right away as Xiao Lin and offers to take him to Jing capital city in her carriage since she’s going over there too. he agrees. Will she be able to seduce him? Or will she end up hating even more Susu now? It wouldn’t be so surprising if she did.

Yue Ya is suspicious of Nian Baiyu being a spy since he asks so many questions. She still ends up telling him that Cang Jiumin must have followed Li Susu to the capital of Jing, info he relays to Jing Mie. Dimian notices the demonic messenger going around. He thinks he should do something about Cang Jiumin before the demon god is reborn. In town, Li Susu find the streets empty. She learns from an inn keeper that a demon as been attacking the village lately and he advises her to leave if she wants to live. The demon is too powerful to be defeated. She’s upset at Cang Jiumin for following her, but he says it’s the festival of his native country so it’s only natural that he would attend, so she’s probably the one following him. Then she tells him that a newbie cultivator should leave in case the demon attacks him and then retorts that she’ll protect him if that ever happens. I love seeing them bickering at each other again. It’s way much better than when she was fighting and ignoring him. Jiumin is a little disrespectful though, because she said she didn’t want to start over with him and yet he keeps pursuing her. He should respect her will instead of following her around to try and win her back. However then there would be no more plot to the story I guess. It’s just sad because it kind of shows that it’s okay to pursue someone that doesn’t even want to. It’s a lot of pressure. They end up staying at the same inn as Gongye Jiwu. They discuss how to defeat the demon. Li Susu says that they need a certain weapon, but she doesn’t remember which one, so Jiumin suggests that he uses a messenger crow to ask Nian Baiyu to get the info for them. So they set up a plan to catch the demon by restricting the area she can access, setting up some sort of red string that once she touches it, she won’t be able to get rid of and will lead them to her. They split up to cover the areas where she’ll be able to go around. The demon shows itself to Jiumin in the shape of Li Susu. He recognizes her right away and tricks her into believing he’s under her spell before attacking her and missing. She escapes to reach Gongye Jiwu’s area. She tries to enchant Gongye Jiwu with talking about Susu’s heart, but he doesn’t even give an inch.  But then she tries again with a little bit more of a success and she almost succeeds, but I think Monü saved him and made him snap out of it before she devoured his brain. Anyways, they noticed that Susu fearing him is his weakness or something like that. I don’t really understand why Susu was drunk sleeping in the first place since they were trying to catch a demon. Jiumin ends up managing to defeat the demon lady that showed him illusions. His will to save and protect Li Susu’s what made him breakthrough.

Sounds like Jingmie might be interested romantically in Siying. He bought dolls that once burned dow they will be protected. He was about to make them kiss when Siying spots him and scolds him for developing useless feelings similar to those of a human. They want to ruin the festival because it’s dear to Cang Jiumin.

Cang Jiumin tells Susu he knows she still fears him the most, but she tells him that she believes him and that he is not the demon god because he would never hurt her. He’s worried that everyone would learn about his true identity, since he heard all the disciples say they would like to kill the demon fetus. The poor man. He really was born to a life of unending pain. I hope he gets luckier in his next life.

And that’s it for this episode. I’m still quite confused as to why Susu was drinking on the night they were hunting the demon and I hope they will explain it to us in some way, because that seems very out of character for her. But it wouldn’t be the first time, the writing of her character is lacking in my opinion. Not to be mistaken, I like her, but they make her do stuff that makes no sense, probably to get the plot going, but it’s just so illogical... And they can do better, they proved it so many times. Really, I hope that they give us a little more consistency for the last few episodes, she deserves it.

[labyrynth]

i don’t agree with what i think is your main claim, which i think is this

-> Wei Wuxian's assumption that jgy set the suicide up and compelled her somehow is the most logical inference.

but i think that might be in part because some of your information actually contradicts the text, so here’s a mostly unbiased fact check

(i.e. i tried to limit to just things that are pretty straightforward readings of the text and simple logical conclusions, and not get into broader scope or more interpretive things. please don’t take this the wrong way, op!)

most quotes are from the 7s official english translation, vol 2 Chapter 10: The Beguiling Boy, save a few at the end which are from EXR 86, Loyalty 8.

-> If Qin Su was going to commit suicide about the bad news, there would have been hints that this was the direction her thoughts were trending during the preceding scene, where we're introduced to her reactions. And there aren't.

-> Her primary reaction is anger.

“Qin Su had nothing left within her stomach to expel. She crouched on the ground on all fours, sobbing. ‘It’s true, you’ve treated me well… But I… I’d rather I’d never known you! No wonder that, ever since… That ever since, there was never… Rather than do that, you should’ve just killed me!’” (261)

hints of suicidality: she explicitly expresses a preference for death over living in an incestuous marriage. you could argue that it’s hyperbole, but. she DOES ultimately kill herself.

anger: one example, but she’s feeling a lot here—disgust, betrayal, sadness—not just anger.

-> She is contemptuous of his caring almost exclusively about what all these horrors could do to their reputation

-> There is nothing in the scene to suggest she would, given the opportunity to denounce him to the cultivation world, choose instead to escape by knife.

“‘…But if this gets out—you are my wife, what would others say? What would they think of you?’

Qin Su clutched her head. ‘Stop talking! Don’t say any more, stop reminding me!!’”(263)

denounce jgy: there is nothing in the scene to suggest she would want to denounce him to the cultivation world, because…

reputation: qin su is not contemptuous of his concerns. rather, she finds the prospect of others finding out too upsetting to think about. comes up later, but wwx theorizes that she knew that she would be subjected to contempt, mockery, and joy masquerading as false pity, and

wwx expresses contempt at jgy’s concern over hosting their guests (264) but not qin su.

-> The interpretation…that says she Just Did That really annoys me, because it requires ignoring basically every single piece of information about the character other than…Wei Wuxian always thought…she wasn't very bright

ignoring other information: such as? we know very little about her. you acknowledge yourself that she only has one scene, where she’s very clearly in incredible distress.

not very bright: wwx thinks she’s naive (260, 262), innocent (260), ignorant of the world (262), and “even a little foolish at times” (262), but not dumb. i dont know what that has to do with whether or not her suicide was her decision, though.

-> it would be out of character for Jin Guangyao to have knowingly arranged a situation likely to go so badly for him

going badly for him: see above; only if qin su threw herself upon the proverbial knife and spilled the beans, thus also damning herself, something she does not want to do.

paraphrasing the next part, because i had a really hard time parsing it:

->if Jin Guangyao had not been assured of Qin Su’s silence (her death), the sensible thing for him to do would be to make her Disappear, as he did nmj’s head, even if it meant killing her, and pin it on “Mo Xuanyu”

“He couldn’t possibly have moved Qin Su somewhere else in such a short period of time without anyone noticing.” (339)

it’s probably safe to assume either dead or alive. bodies are fairly large, and not terribly cooperative about moving.

killing her: qin su’s death at this point is to jgy’s detriment: the informant is the threat, not her. if he kills her, he will never find out who gave her the letter.

-> If Jin Guangyao had actual mind control powers he definitely would have used them a lot

this is true. his life would have been so much easier if he could control others’ minds. i think he deserves a little mind control. as a treat. unfortunately, the universe said no treats for a-yao.

->he used some technique or drug that would confuse her and suppress her cognition…

“…he moved next to Qin Su, carefully examining her profile. She was still alive and well. Although her expression was wooden, Wei Wuxian was certain there were no evil spells cast upon her, nor any strange poisons affecting her. Her mind was clear.” (340-341)

influenced: by wwx’s own judgement, she is in control of herself, and is not in any way impaired.

-> …then deliberately put 'cursed dagger that preys on your negative feelings and makes you kill yourself' within reach just before everyone entered

also later referred to as

-> evil dagger that [compels] you to kill yourself

here’s everything the book says about the dagger:

“The dagger emitted an eerie, frigid glint, roiling with a murderous aura.” (341)

“‘This dagger was the weapon of an assassin. It has killed countless people and is incomparably sharp. Take a look at the blade. Look closely. You’ll see the reflection is not your own, but sometimes a man, sometimes a woman, sometimes an elder. Each is a soul that died at the assassin’s hand. The blade is heavy with yin energy, so I added drapes to seal it off.’” (341)

which does not include anything about feeding off of resentment or other negative emotions, compulsions to violence, let alone making you kill yourself.

furthermore, wwx’s own conclusions are conflicting.

first:

“Qin Su stood by Jin Guangyao’s side, watching as he fiddled with the dagger. Suddenly, she snatched it from him! Her face started to twist and tremble. The others didn’t understand her expression, but Wei Wuxian, who had just spied on her dispute with Jin Guangyao, could easily read the pain, anger, and humiliation written there.” (342)

the pain, anger, and humiliation were too great.

next:

“Who could’ve imagined that Jin Guangyao wouldn’t just move the head in such a short period of time, but also do or say something that drove Qin Su to kill herself in public and seal her own lips?” (344)

jgy said or did something that drove her to it.

then:

“He immediately fabricated a slew of lies, talked Qin Su into suicide, then purposely cornered me to the lattice shelf where Suibian was stored to tempt me into pulling the sword and exposing my identity.” (348)

jgy talked her into it.

MUCH later:

Wei WuXian smiled, “But have you never thought what a blow it'd be to her after you told her? Or do you really not know? That it's because you went to tell Qin Su of the matter that she killed herself?” (EXR 86, Loyalty 8)

she couldn’t bear the revelation of her incest

and finally:

…“Qin Su was still too fragile."

…"Qin Su was so pitiful."

…"Back then I even envied her[…]But who knew? Tsk, tsk."

…"That's why these seemingly beautiful things are often full of holes beneath the surface. There's nothing to envy at all."

…Perhaps it's precisely because of these people who comment in joy masked as pity that Qin Su decided to take her own life. (EXR 86, Loyalty 8)

she couldn’t bear the humiliation of the public’s (inevitable) delight in her trauma.

uhhh ive spent way too long on this already and i don’t really know how to end it

to leave the text behind a little bit, i think the main, purely emotional reason i don’t like the “she was manipulated/forced/mind controlled/whatever” theory is that it denies her the last little bit of agency she could have had, and she gets so little of that anyway.

in the end, no one gets to make decisions for her anymore, and that was her decision—nobody else’s.

So re: Qin Su's death, one thing I'm absolutely certain of is that she did not just conveniently kill herself due to her high level of distress, at the exact moment most convenient to a person she was super mad at.

Because, frankly, mxtx is not that shitty a writer. She doesn't sweat the details or logistics of things, characters are allowed to coincidentally turn up in the right place to make the plot work and so forth, but these novels are intensely concerned with character motive and internal life. Everyone does things for their own reasons.

People do what the plot requires, but a defining feature of her writing is that everyone is fashioned into the shape of the kind of person who would do that thing in this situation. Sometimes whole scenes or subplots exist mainly to put on display the underlying cognitive patterns that justify as individual choices the kinds of things stock characters routinely do in genre novels, for no reason than that they are The Type Of Character who Does That.

If Qin Su was going to commit suicide about the bad news, there would have been hints that this was the direction her thoughts were trending during the preceding scene, where we're introduced to her reactions. And there aren't.

Her primary reaction is anger. She's scared to death when her husband paralyzes her and puts her on his dismemberment table to interrogate later for the name of her informant. She is contemptuous of his caring almost exclusively about what all these horrors could do to their reputation.

There is nothing in the scene to suggest she would, given the opportunity to denounce him to the cultivation world, choose instead to escape by knife.

The interpretation of this sequence that says she Just Did That really annoys me, because it requires ignoring basically every single piece of information about the character other than the fact that Wei Wuxian always thought since they were kids that she wasn't very bright.

Furthermore, it would be out of character for Jin Guangyao to have knowingly arranged a situation likely to go so badly for him, and wildly unusual for him to get so lucky if he had. This man has shit luck normally.

The sensible thing for him to do, in a universe where Qin Su just conveniently opted for suicide instead of ratting on him, would have been to take the ten to twenty minutes of prep time he had to work with to disappear her the same way he did nmj's head.

This might have required killing her first, since we don't know where he put it, but while I'm sure he didn't want to do that I'm equally sure he was entirely capable. He had a convenient scapegoat handy to blame for her disappearance.

He had no reason to allow her to be visible and capable of independent action when his cavalcade of guests arrived. But there she was, dazed but unrestrained. And then...cursed knife time.

Super convenient! She's dead and can't blab, and lots of important people saw her do it and saw how horrified he was and are disposed to be sympathetic. Works out much better for him than the risk of being blamed if she disappears.

So Wei Wuxian's assumption that jgy set the suicide up and compelled her somehow is the most logical inference. Neither of their characters is really compatible with the other scenario.

If Jin Guangyao had actual mind control powers he definitely would have used them a lot, so the most straightforward version of what happened is he used some technique or drug that would confuse her and suppress her cognition, then deliberately put 'cursed dagger that preys on your negative feelings and makes you kill yourself' within reach just before everyone entered.

I'm sure if it hadn't worked, and she'd just kind of stared into the distance while he talked his way out of the unproveable allegations and weaponized Mo Xuanyu's bad reputation and so forth, he'd have been happy with that outcome too, since it would still have meant a lot of important people saw her alive and not freaking out, and then he'd still have been able to torture her for information later. (Again, something I'm sure he didn't want to do, but absolutely would have.)

But this worked out well and got rid of two exposure threats at once while buying him sympathy points.

Although considering his shit luck, I wouldn't rule out that his plan only went as far as sedating her so she couldn't make trouble and he could show everyone how not paralyzed on his murder table she was, and he'd forgotten he had an evil dagger that compelled you to kill yourself lying around in reach of a woman whose ability to exert force of will he'd just reduced to nothing.

And he wasn't expecting that result at all.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

is jgy different in the books than in the untamed? sorry if u haven’t read them im kind of just assuming u have even tho i haven’t lol but i was wondering if his characterization has any major differences like how wwx in novel vs untamed they sort of sanitize him and take away any culpability and honestly some of his edge. just curious if there’s any major differences in his characterization between the two

I'm not the best person to answer because I've only read the first two volumes of MDZS. Short answer: Yes, he is different, and in fact gets the reverse of WWX's treatment: Drama JGY is more overtly villainous than Novel JGY. However, IMO it's a little more complicated than that!

(Novel enjoyers, please chime in if I'm forgetting or misrepresenting anything.)

A lot of JGY fans greatly prefer the novel and feel that The Untamed did him dirty, because a lot of the show's plot changes that make WWX look better make JGY look worse. Jin Zixuan's death is the most glaring one: in the novel, WWX really does lose control of WN because he overestimates his abilities, and it's a tragic accident. JGY and SMS's implied involvement in the Massacre at Nightless City also doesn't happen in the novel; that, too, was a devastated WWX wreaking havoc and/or losing control. The novel also establishes that JGY is subject to abuse within Jinlintai, so there's an element of duress that one can read into his actions under JGS. Novel NMJ behaves more aggressively towards JGY than he does in the show, so his murder doesn't have the same tinge of malice. (The novel timeline also has JGY and LXC meeting before JGY and NMJ, all during Sunshot, so there's that.) Additionally, the novel tells us that JGY is genuinely a very good leader once he's Chief Cultivator and has implemented policies that have improved the lives of regular people and contributed to political stability. We're also told more about his childhood and his love for his mother, and we learn that his relationship with QS is a tragic love story (he doesn't know they're related until after she's pregnant) rather than something he went through with anyway. So in the novel, he's got a lot of positive things going for him that censorship didn't allow to carry over into the show for fear of having too much moral ambiguity.

HOWEVER!!!

The thing about the novel (and why I don't vibe with it as much) is that it's very much WWX's story, whereas The Untamed spends wayyyyy more time with its supporting cast. You might've noticed that I said the word "told" a lot in the above paragraph, because... well, that's what happens. We're told things about JGY, but we don't see him as much, especially since the novel is focused on the post-timeskip era with the stuff in the past coming through non-linear flashbacks. You don't get to see Meng Yao being Just A Little Guy very much before he becomes the Kitten Thinks About Nothing But Murder All Day meme. Now, you also don't hear dramatic music telegraphing HEY!!! HEY!! VILLAINY IS AFOOT!! HEY!!! every time JGY does literally anything, but you do have everything filtered through WWX's unreliable narrator monologue, and he is out there saying some truly wild shit. (You also get less Xiyao. Like, it's there if you want it to be, but The Untamed really went all-in on that.)

For me, the show works better, because I am a sucker for corruption arcs where you see glimpses of the character before they start the atrocities. Seeing him be Just A Little Guy making the saddest meow meow faces when people were mean to him kept me from totally losing sympathy for/interest in him once things start getting squicky, because I had evidence that he wasn't always like that. Meanwhile, JGY's first big scene in the novel is the confrontation with QS (which already makes my skin crawl and is somehow WORSE in novel form), and I was just like "wow, this guy sucks" even though I knew the story and all the extenuating circumstances already. For others, the novel works better, because "first impressions and society's opinion are unreliable" is a major theme, so the reverse reveal combined with the fact that he demonstrably tries to improve people's lives as a leader is less expected and more satisfying.

So yeah! JGY is different, but the ways in which he is different are due to storytelling methods as well as to plot changes!

[shanastoryteller]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! I hope it’s a great one!!!

Something WangXian pretty please

a continuation of 1 2 3 4

A-Yao had told him to be wary of Mo Xuanyu. He'd said that their father had taken an unusual interest in her but despite showing promise as a cultivator, she'd been thrown from the tower for no reason he'd been able to find.

Jin Guangshan's interest had only piqued after that.

Lan Xichen doesn't doubt A-Yao about much. But if Jin Guangshan has truly chosen to send his daughter into the Lan clan to spy or ruin them, he thinks that Mo Xuanyu seems an odd choice.

Then again, rumors have it that she's odd. Perhaps she's a choice made out of necessity rather than desirability.

She's awkward and uncomfortable and not doing much to hide it, deflecting every question he asks about her but without asking any probing questions of her own. Everything she asks is perfectly innocuous, questions she'd ask anyone she'd find herself at a table with.

He's talking about the disciples back home when her expression sharpens and she interrupts him. "Nephew?"

He stares, confused, running back what he'd just said through his head. Ah, he had been talking about Sizhui.

"I have a son," Wangji says, the first time during this meal he's spoken without prompting.

Her eyes widen. "You," she starts, then cuts herself off. She turns to Jiang Yanli and gestures sharply to Wangji, her eyebrows saying everything that her mouth isn't. Something about it tugs at him, like he's seen this scene play out before, but of course he hasn't. He's meeting Mo Xuanyu for the first time, and Jiang Yanli's encounters with her are probably still in the single digits.

Jiang Yanli raises her sleeve to hide her smile. "It's nothing inappropriate. He is adopted."

It's not inappropriate, but it could pose a problem. He'd assumed she'd been told about Wangji, she certainly should have been if she's some sort of spy or saboteur, but perhaps not. It would be within her rights to demand any children she and Wangji have to be placed in the lines of inheritance before his adopted child, to take the place of clan heir as blood descendants and children of a legitimate marriage.

Wangji will never agree to it.

His brother has tensed, bracing himself for this arguments, but for the first time since entering the room Mo Xuanyu doesn't seem pained, a grin stretching across her face. "Really? That's great. I love kids."

"He is fifteen," Wangji says after an awkward beat while they all blink at her.

She shrugs. "So? When I was that age, I still had a lot of growing up to do. Don't you remember being fifteen, Lan Wangji?"

His face goes glacially cold and he raises his cup to his lips instead of answering.

Mo Xuanyu's grin slip down into a frown and Lan Xichen holds back a sigh.

[likeshipsonthesea]

mianmian gets to the lan sect lectures, discovers very quickly that every one of her peers has decided to use this time to figure out how quickly they can get into bed with someone of the opposite sex, and decides almost immediately that she has to pick a suitably unattainable guy to have a crush on.

the thing is, mianmian is lanling jin’s head disciple. she is capable, intelligent, and very very gay. the last of these things she isn’t exactly keen on telling people yet for a variety of reasons up to and including jin zixuan will be so awkward and stubbornly supportive about it and she doesn’t know how to deal with that yet

so when her friends giggle over the other young masters and finally turn to mianmian-- who’s trying to memorize at least some of the fifty-thousand rules before their quiz tomorrow--and they ask her, “who do you like, mianmian?” she says the name that she carefully picked out of a handful of options.

“lan-er-gongzi,” she says, without looking up from her textbook, and she assumes that will be the end of it. 

lan wangji is both incredibly attractive and unrelentingly resistant to all attempts to flirt with him. she, like half the other female cultivators, can moon over him (or pretend to moon over him) all they want and nothing will come of it. it’s perfect. she’s a genius. the worst she’ll have to do now is pretend to be infatuated with him when her friends start gossiping. it’s fool proof.

spoiler: it’s not

it’s not, no, because her friends are horrible and immediately start gossiping about it to everyone, and usually mianmian wouldn’t care but then jin zixuan finds out. jin zixuan, whose marriage complex is being brought to center stage with the forced proximity to his bride-to-be. jin zixuan, who for some reason decided he has to live his stolen crush-addled youth vicariously through his only real friend that isn’t related to him. jin zixuan, who for some godforsaken reason takes it upon himself to contrive situations for mianmian and lan wangji to be alone together incessantly.

it unfortunately takes mianmian longer than she would like to figure out what’s happening. she’d give herself a break for it-- she was being responsible and studying, thank you very much-- but she doesn’t have much sympathy for her own stupidity seeing as she’s currently locked in a section of the lan library with the second jade of lan

and suddenly, suddenly she’s just so fucking tired. of studying, yeah, the tests here are brutal and there’s no one to bribe to make sure she doesn’t lose points on stupid things, but also tired of lying to the people she loves and tired of training this hard and being an amazing cultivator only for people to care more about her eventual marriage-- to a man of all things!-- and also, let’s be real here, she’s been in lectures with beautiful capable intelligent women for like months and she’s losing her gay ass mind

and so maybe, possibly, as she’s locked in a library with a clearly confused and annoyed second jade of lan she kind of, momentarily, loses it and rants all of this at his steadily widening eyes

at the end of it, she realizes with no small amount of panic that she’s just confessed not only her attraction to women but the fact that she’s been letting wen qing’s ears of all things distract her from her studies. if anything, she’s sure lan wangji will fault her for inattention

but the second jade of lan, after a drawn-out moment filled only with mianmian’s labored breathing and rising panic, simply says, “i understand.”

mianmian stops. she squints. she tilts her head. she squints some more. lan wangji’s ears go pink and just like that she realizes -- “you’re a cut-sleeve.”

lan wangji’s ears go even pinker. he doesn’t nod, or agree, or outwardly react in any way, but mianmian is a capable, intelligent cultivator, and she’s sure of it.

mianmian sighs with a relief she didn’t know she could feel. “thank the gods.”

lan wangji doesn’t seem to know what to make of this response, or mianmian’s increasingly frequent trips to the library following their conversation, or mianmian’s staunch determination to befriend the guy, but that’s alright. mianmian is old hat at befriending awkward sect heirs by this point.

it’s not like lan wangji expressed any desire for her friendship, but the prospect of not being the only one with absolutely no interest in the straight shenanigans happening at gusu lan summer camp is enough to let mianmian ignore his obvious confusion. lan wangji is a great listener and only sometimes blushes when mianmian waxes poetic about the beautiful women she’s forced to surround herself with every day

“no but you don’t understand,” mianmian insists, alone in the library with lan wangji, “jiang-guniang asked me to help her with a sword form. i put my hands on her waist. i said something idiotic bc she was so pretty and right there and then she laughed. lan wangji. i’m in love.”

“yesterday you were in love with wen-guniang,” lan wangji says as he impassively turns a page in his book. “has this changed?”

“no, i’m in love with both of them. all of them. lan wangji. they’re all so pretty all the time. it’s horrible.”

lan wangji presses his lips into a firmer line, which mianmian’s come to understand means he’s repressing a smile. “i’m sorry to hear it brings luo-guniang such trouble.”

mianmian groans, fairly undignified, but that’s a lost cause with lan wangji at this point anyway. “i swear, if jin zixuan says one more bad thing about her i’m going to punch him and marry her myself.”

lan wangji says, “mn,” which mianmian takes to mean that he supports her in this line of thinking, which she finds both quite sweet and ridiculously funny.

grinning, she teases, “lan-er-gongzi, if i do end up marrying jiang-guniang, will you bear witness to our elopement?”

lan wangji’s lips press again, this time in the way that means he’s repressing a frown. “jiang-guniang’s brothers wouldn’t allow for an elopement,” he says.

mianmian huffs. “as if yunmeng or lanling will deign to host our wedding.”

lan wangji appears to ponder this for a moment before he says, “gusu will host it,” and it’s at that moment that mianmian realizes she’s actually gone and fucking befriended the second jade of lan.

what is her life.

of course, it’s not long after that that she goes to find jin zixuan and explain that she can’t make their weekly sparring match today because she has plans with lan wangji (jiang yanli tenderly brushed some of mianmian’s hair away from her forehead while they were working on sword forms and if mianmian doesn’t tell someone about it she’s literally going to explode) and she’s trying to be as polite as possible only for jin zixuan to scoff and pout (”i don’t pout”) and say, “i never took you for one of those women who throw themselves so wantonly at a man”

it’s only for having been friends with this absolutely horrible communicator for most of her life that she doesn’t immediately punch him in the face. “what did you just say to me,” she demands, but jin zixuan just sets his jaw and looks away, flushing down his neck in the way his mother describes as unbecoming and--

and mianmian suddenly realizes that her ridiculous best friend is jealous of lan wangji. 

(in a friend way, of course, he’s like her brother, the one time his mother implied that he ought not get too close to women in case it jeopardizes his betrothal to jiang yanli, he insisted he didn’t have any female friends repeatedly as his mother delicately danced around outright saying mianmian’s name until finally she broke and jin zixuan was basically like huh?? mianmian doesn’t count?? she made me eat dirt like six times when we were kids)

the sheer ridiculousness of jin zixuan, to set her up with a guy and then get jealous when she spends all her time with him

and fuck her, but she loves her stupid awkward ridiculous sect heir best friend and she doesn’t want him to think she’s gone and left him for someone else (gods know jin zixuan’s loyalty complex rivals his marriage one (on second thought the two might be connected)) and so, after making a few quick decisions, mianmian grabs her stupid best friend by the wrist and pulls him to the library

he protests all the way there, but he’s been letting her drag him wherever she wants since they were five and it isn’t as if he’s going to break the pattern now. she drags him to the library and sits him down across a startled lan wangji and then finally breaks and gushes about jiang-guniang’s fingertips brushing her forehead and doesn’t look at jin zixuan once the whole time

lan wangji, on the other hand, sends jin zixuan frequent glances, as if worried on mianmian’s behalf, which is super sweet and also how the fuck did mianmian get two awkward sect heirs to care about her platonically wtf. she spares a thought for her poor auntie, who would’ve loved to have a sect heir care about her niece in much less platonic ways.

at the end of mianmian’s rant, jin zixuan is blinking quite a lot. “you like women?” he asks. he’s always been a bit slow on the uptake. mianmian nods. “you like jiang-guniang?”

mianmian shrugs. “more or less. she’s just really pretty and i’m dying about it. it’s fine.”

lan wangji says, “mn,” sympathetically and jin zixuan continues to gape.

mianmian winces. “you’re not going to be weird about this, are you?”

jin zixuan shakes his head quickly. “no, no-- of course not, i--you know that i--you’re my best friend, i don’t care--what does it matter to me, who you want to--to touch your hair.”

it’s probably the most awkward sentence he’s said to her in years, but possibly more articulate than she’d been expecting. it makes her tear up regardless and she punches him in the shoulder to hide it, and that’s basically how the three of them start hanging out in the library nearly every day after lecture.

sometimes they go to the sparring ground, bc who’s better sparring practice than the second jade of lan? and sometimes (once or twice) mianmian manages to convince lan wangji to join her and jin zixuan for lunch in caiyi town when they don’t have lecture, but mostly they meet in a secluded part of the library where mianmian can rant about how pretty all the women at lectures are, jin zixuan can turn pink whenever she mentions jiang-guniang, and lan wangji can “mn” and nod sympathetically at all the right parts

and mianmian thinks that’s going to be the end of it, they’re just going to be friends now and everything else will move on as usual, bc by some ridiculous trick of fate lan wangji and jin zixuan seem to like each other. which makes sense in hindsight bc they’re both awkward sect heirs who care about cultivation and people a lot even if they’re not great at showing it 

(and he’d never say it but mianmian thinks jin zixuan’s easy acceptance of her liking women is probably the first time lan wangji’s ever seen someone accept that kind of thing before (maybe, possibly, other than his brother, lan xichen seems really cool, even if he does smile kind of intensely at mianmian whenever he happens upon her hanging out with his little brother.))

so they’re friends, they’re unexpected friends, and sometimes lan wangji even makes jokes in that dry deadpan way of his and sometimes jin zixuan doesn’t completely trip over his own words and manages to act like a normal human being and mianmian gets two idiots to care about and a perfect place to vent her womanly frustrations, and she thinks that’s the end of it and then wei wuxian accosts her after lectures one day

“do you like lan zhan?” he asks accusingly, eyes narrowed to slits. “what am i even asking, of course you like lan zhan, but do you like-like him?”

mianmian thinks sadly to herself that she’s much too into women to be dealing with all these men’s emotional problems. “lan wangji is my friend,” she says, carefully sidestepping wei wuxian, who continues to squint at her suspiciously. really, he’d been amusing when he flirted with her, but this? this is just ridiculous.

“does he know that?” wei wuxian asks. “because if he doesn’t, that’s just leading him on, and it’s really not nice to--”

“lan wangji knows we’re friends,” she says, trying to enunciate to get her point across clearly. “you can ask him, if you don’t believe me.”

wei wuxian squints a moment longer before he turns and flounces off. mianmian thinks this is the end of it until she’s accosted again after dinner with, “he said you were friends!”

for some reason, wei wuxian seems even more troubled by this than earlier. mianmian tries to suppress her eyeroll. “i told you he would?”

“but how,” wei wuxian says, suddenly whining. “i’ve been trying to be his friend for months and he refuses to acknowledge me.”

oh, mianmian realizes with a quickly dawning horror. she and lan wangji are not the only cut-sleeves at cloud recesses this summer. (she has suspicions, of course, but no confirmations on any of the others, but this. wow.)

she also realizes, decides really, that she has enough repressed sect heirs in her life and she cannot deal with wei wuxian’s cut-sleeve crisis or his evidently large attachment to lan wangji right now. she turns decisively and walks the fuck away. not her problem.

the lectures end eventually, of course, and mianmian and jin zixuan return to lanling with a horde of golden robed disciples, freshly deflowered and not all together more learned. it’s what, she thinks grimly, their sect leader would want.

the first few weeks go by and she realizes that she’s missed unloading about her frequent and fast falling-in-loves. jin zixuan just doesn’t sympathize right, bless him, and so mianmian takes to writing letters. she sends two without receiving a reply and just starts to write the third when a letter with the gusu symbol is delivered to her room.

she’s almost expecting to find a single mn written on the page-- she would’ve been delighted with just that, actually, the sheer hilarity of such a thing-- but instead she finds several pages filled with lan wangji’s perfect calligraphy.

it’s more than he’s ever spoken out loud, but it seems that propriety dictated that he return mianmian’s extensive letter with one of his own and he’s done so admirably. he responds to the events mianmian detailed in her letters-- most succinctly summarized as, woman are gorgeous and i’m dying-- and then writes about his own life in cloud recesses. apparently, he went on a little night hunt with wei wuxian and also nie huaisang and jiang cheng were involved? seriously, mianmian misses out on all the fun.

he’s also apparently taken in some rabbits, which mianmian immediately decides she needs to see. lan wangji, sitting prim and proper, with a bunch of rabbits in his lap? amazing. wei wuxian would die on sight, she’s sure of it.

he also ends his letter with a warning about qishan wen that has mianmian frowning. she takes it to jin zixuan who reads the paragraph and frowns. “i’ll talk to my father about it,” he says, which she can tell by his hunched shoulders he doesn’t expect to do much.

“talk to your father’s general too,” she suggests, because that man at least thinks with his head and not his dick.

jin zixuan nods but doesn’t hand back the letter. he skims it instead with a barely concealed surprise at lan wangji’s previously hidden expansive vocabulary. mianmian snorts and grabs the letter back. “you can write to him yourself, you know.”

jin zixuan flushes down his neck. “i know!” he insists and then turns and runs away because he’s a coward. mianmian shakes her head, smiling. what an idiot.

still, another week goes by and a letter arrives from gusu and, when mianmian takes it, assuming it’s for her, she finds it addressed to jin zixuan in lan wangji’s impeccable calligraphy and she grins to herself like an idiot. look at jin zixuan, making friends

(she suddenly understands why lan xichen gave her all those intense smiles during the lan lectures)

they go on in this way, writing letters to lan wangji from lanling. sometimes mianmian steals jin zixuan’s letters before he sends them so she can squeeze in some ranting in the post script without wasting a whole second thing of paper, and lan wangji replies dutifully, more verbose than he ever was in person, and it’s nice okay, like. she and jin zixuan have been best friends since they were kids but neither of them has ever been any good at listening and lan wangji is just so honest and earnest in everything, like they didn’t realize that people outside of lanling were actually not always plotting your downfall??? who woulda thunk

and then of course the wens go and ruin everything. they go to the wen lectures bc jin guangshan doesn’t want to “anger our trading partner” like the guy isn’t obviously going to burn carp tower to the ground the first chance he gets, and mostly mianmian and jin zixuan are just vaguely annoyed and put out about it

then lan wangji shows up with a broken leg and a burned sect and they are ready to murder some dudes

after years of breaking in and out of carp tower she and jin zixuan are old hats at this breaking and entering stuff and they manage to sneak into lan wangji’s guest quarters and tend to his wounds, ignoring all his silent glares and ranting furiously about how they’re going to murder wen chao by making him choke on his own dick (mianmian) and how they’re going to war with the wen sect even if he has to threaten his father with acknowledging all of his bastards as proper siblings in public to do it (jin zixuan)

lan wangji just says “mn” and makes various muted, distressed expressions, but mianmian thinks he’s touched.

“are your brother and uncle alright?” she asks, when she’s set his broken leg and forced pain medication down his throat.

“brother escaped with our sacred texts,” lan wangji says. “uncle is... unwell.”

mianmian knows lan wangji hates touch but the way he says it, with this horrible little frown, emoting more than she’s ever seen him, his barely suppressed anger and grief literally making his hands shake into fists, mianmian can’t help it, she hugs him. “we’ll make them pay,” she swears into his shoulder, ruining the lines of his robes with how she clutches at them. “i promise you.”

jin zixuan awkwardly pats lan wangji’s shoulder, which is a lot for him and mianmian spares a moment to be proud of his growth.

unfortunately, wen chao seems to delight in torturing lan wangji on his injured leg and lan wangji refuses to show weakness, which both impresses mianmian and pisses her the fuck off. she approaches wen qing (and her still gorgeous ears, sigh) and asks her to tend to lan wangji, since she’s like actually a doctor. wen qing does bc she’s beautiful, intelligent, and kind and mianmian spends most of that night sighing deeply as she relates this to a significantly drugged lan wangji

the cave of the xuanwu goes about the same as you’d expect. wei wuxian saving her from getting her face branded off is pretty rad of him, though he could’ve just like knocked the brand away instead of throwing himself in front of it but whatever, you do you boo. when lan wangji gets left behind the two of them don’t even have to wait for jiang cheng to grumble and ask for their help, they’re already on their way to carp tower for an army, thank you very much

when they rescue wei wuxian and lan wangji and lan wangji immediately turns to walk back to cloud recesses on a broken leg mianmian says, “fuck no, that’s not happening, you’re getting medical attention and then someone will fly you back home, okay, wtf wangji, sit down.”

and lan wangji is a stubborn bitch so obvs he’s like no but he’s also severely starved, dehydrated, and injured, so it’s not like he can just shake off mianmian holding him down and this goes on long enough for wei wuxian to wake up and see mianmian touching lan wangji, and something in his poor little brain just like breaks and he demands says, “lan zhan, come back to lotus pier with us.”

his argument, as he explains it, is that lotus pier is closer (it’s not; they’re just as close to carp tower as lotus pier) and that it’s closer to gusu for when lan wangji has to return home (it’s not; same deal) but then jiang cheng starts yelling, possibly in support possibly not mianmian’s not sure, and jin zixuan starts getting awkward, probably about the whole golden army behind him bc he’s a nerd and hates being overdressed at functions (this is basically the same thing), and mianmian looks at lan wangji and she sees--

something. she isn’t sure what exactly, but lan wangji looks at wei wuxian as he argues with his brother and he presses his lips into a thin line in the way that means he wants to smile and mianmian thinks, oh. maybe wei wuxian isn’t completely unrequited in his lan wangji obsession.

growing up in lanling, she knows how to use information to her advantage, so she immediately says, “young masters wei and jiang, what a great idea. lanling’s disciples would be pleased to accompany you and second young master lan to lotus pier to ensure everyone’s safe arrival.”

everyone splutters, indignant, confused, awkward (jiang cheng, wei wuxian, and jin zixuan, respectively) but lan wangji narrows his eyes at mianmian and doesn’t try to convince her to let him walk to gusu again, so she counts it as a win.

sect leader jiang and his wife seem surprised and annoyed, respectively, to be taking in so many guests, but sect leader jiang merely smiles pleasantly and directs them to some guest quarters and mianmian and wei wuxian ask, simultaneously, for doctors to tend to lan wangji and wei wuxian makes a face at her and mianmian sighs to herself that she really is too gay to be in the middle of his thing with lan wangji.

turns out, walking a lot and fighting a cannibalistic turtle on a broken leg doesn’t do wonders for healing. lan wangji is also the worst patient ever, he keeps trying to sneak out and get up even though word came from his brother that he’s safe and alright and that cloud recesses is starting to rebuild after qinghe nie and lanling jin came to its aid and pushed out the wen

but with the combined efforts of mianmian, jin zixuan, and wei wuxian (and even jiang yanli at one point, bc who could say no to her soup??) they manage to get lan wangji to just rest for a fucking second, really which results in the jin disciples and lan wangji staying in lotus pier for longer than anyone could’ve expected

mianmian spends most of her time (when she isn’t forcing lan wangji to just fucking stay in bed) working with the jiang disciples, practicing archery, sword forms, and mooning after all the beautiful women here.

(”lan wangji, i know she’s scary, but have you seen madam yu? she could whip me with zidian and i’d thank her” “luo-guniang, please don’t ask madam yu to whip you” OR “lan wangji, i’m almost positive madam yu’s maids are a thing, do you think they’d let me join them just like once” “luo-guniang, could you please pass me my sword?” “why” “i’d like to put myself out of this misery” OR “she made me soup. lan wangji. lan wangji, i know you’re not sleeping, wake up, you have to listen to me, this soup”)

they end up staying so long that when wang lingjiao shows up threatening a child about a kite while sect leader jiang is away, she has a lot more to deal with than madam yu. since none of this had been a “sanctioned visit” no one actually knew that there was nearly an entire troop of jin disciples staying at lotus pier, so when the wens attack they are sorely unprepared for what they’re going to face.

(and ofc lan wangji breaks out of bed heroically and keeps madam yu from whipping wei wuxian, which means they aren’t down one of their most powerful fighters and mianmian has to suffer through the moon eyes they’re making at one another in the middle of a battle no less, she knew wei wuxian had no shame but she’d been hoping lan wangji would have some)

after the wen attack (and defeat) on lotus pier and the jin’s inarguable part in it, the war starts in earnest. lan wangji, after his long rest, heals fine and goes back to gusu to help rebuild his sect and plan for war, and mianmian and jin zixuan return to carp tower to plan as well, ignoring jin guangshan and focusing instead on his general to ensure lanling supplies necessary aid in the war effort

and war is always shitty, of course, and mianmian hates watching her sect family die on the battlefield, hates waiting for updates after every battle to see who’s still alive, hates the politics and jin guangshan trying to wheedle his way out of fighting when there’s fucking lives on the line

(and she could never know, how much easier it is, with yunmeng jiang at its full strength, with one of the brightest minds of their generation there to plot and help, with two of the best fighters not out searching for someone and instead focused on the front)

they reach nightless city after months of fighting and mianmian is ready to just fucking stab wen ruohan herself when they’re suddenly trapped. blocked in on all sides by puppets, their fallen soldiers rising again to turn on them, and it--it looks like they’re gonna die.

“this sucks,” she says to lan wangji, stifling her fear and choking it down. “i never even got to kiss a girl.”

lan wangji just says “mn.”

jin zixuan, beside them, says, “i was an idiot about jiang-guniang.”

lan wangji just says, “mn.”

then wei wuxian pulls out a fucking flute and a-- floating piece of metal?  the army of puppets and corpses stops advancing, held in place by-- music, apparently? and wen ruohan emerges from his lair, black energy falling off him in waves, wei wuxian the idiot flies forward to meet him, gets wen ruohan’s hand around his throat for his trouble.

lan wangji yells, “wei ying!” and mianmian thinks, really not fair that lan wangji is gonna get a boyfriend before i get a girlfriend

and then wen ruohan gets stabbed by jin zixuan’s half brother of all people. wen ruohan, along with his puppets and wei wuxian, fall to the ground. lan wangji rushes forward to catch wei wuxian, mianmian runs after him, finds herself in company with jin zixuan and jiang cheng. when they get there, wei wuxian is barely conscious but he’s-- he’s fucking grinning up at lan wangji from the cradle of lan wangji’s arms

“lan zhan,” he says, “you caught me.”

lan wangji nods, says, “mn,” which is basically his equivalent of i’ll always catch you, wei ying.

“really,” mianmian says aloud, “it’s so unfair.”

the aftermath of the war is more annoying than the war itself, what with all the politics and in-fighting and jin guangshan trying to be the biggest dick there ever was. jin guangshan tries to name himself chief cultivator in wen ruohan’s stead but nie mingjue suggests jiang fengmian instead and the lan sect backs him. jin guangshan tries to demonize the wens but at wei wuxian’s loud rebuttal and sect leader jiang’s backing (which is then backed by both gusu lan and qinghe nie) he’s once again shouted down. and then jin guangshan tries to propose to jiang-guniang for his son and the poor woman just seems so awkward and her father doesn’t seem to know what to say and--

mianmian elbows jin zixuan whose eyes widen ridiculously but, after another, harder hit, he suddenly stands. all eyes go to him, which mianmian knows he hates, but he bows to his father, then jiang yanli, and says, “jiang-guniang, forgive my father’s impertinence. this is not the time or place to be making such an offer, but he--” jin zixuan winces visibly. “--he knows of my feelings and wishes to make his foolish son happy. please, do not feel the need to respond.”

then he promptly sits down, flushing down to his neck, and mianmian shares a disbelieving glance with lan wangji from across the horrible nightless city palace room.

she’d really only meant for him to suggest jiang yanli answer privately, at a later time, but wow, jin zixuan really went for it. also no way jin guangshan knows his son has fallen in love with jiang yanli, so nice save face there. maybe he has been paying attention in all of their etiquette and political espionage classes.

jiang yanli flushes way prettier than jin zixuan and nods politely, stands and bows and thanks the jin clan for being considerate in this time of turmoil, perhaps they can discuss this matter at a later date (jin zixuan looks like he nearly faints at this, and mianmian feels vindicated in all her forlorn ranting. overreacting her ass)

when everything has been settled, wen qing has been appointed the new sect leader of qishan wen with promises to return land to those who lost it and pay reparations to the hurt civilians, as well as have the yin iron destroyed for good. during the final ceremony where all the sects have tea and pledge to be loyal to one another (until the next great war, of course) mianmian leans close to lan wangji and sighs, “her ears look even lovelier with her hair tied back by her new sect leader hairpiece.”

lan wangji says “mn” because he’s a cut sleeve in love with wei wuxian and has nothing even closely resembling taste.

mianmian, on her own, decides to make them both happy. before the jin clan departs from nightless city, she goes up to wei wuxian and asks for a moment of his time. wei wuxian seems confused but follows and, once they’re alone, he says, “mianmian, are you about to get me into bed, because i must tell you that i am a respectable young cultivator and you’ll need to marry me before--”

mianmian gives him her best unimpressed look (she’s had much practice with it, thank you jin zixuan) and cuts him off with, “i like women.” 

wei wuxian’s eyes go wide. “but you and lan zhan--”

she cuts him off again before he can say something so stupid she has to stop talking to him to refrain from breaking all laws of propriety. “look,” she says, “you’re friends with wen qing. now that she’s sect leader, your brother can’t go after her. i, on the other hand, very much can. if you promise to figure out a way for me and her to get close, i’ll tell you a secret you’ll like very much.”

wei wuxian seems hesitant for all of half a second before he breaks. “tell me.”

“do you promise?”

wei wuxian raises three fingers. “promise.”

“on your sister’s life?”

begrudgingly, wei wuxian nods.

“on her soup?”

“just get on with it!”

mianmian smirks, pushes onto her tiptoes, and whispers the secret into wei wuxian’s ear. with that, she returns to the pavilion where all the sects mingle as they wait to depart, wei wuxian trailing behind her in a daze, his mouth hanging open.

lan wangji, who had been watching since mianmian asked wei wuxian for a moment to talk, frowns nearly imperceptibly. mianmian grins at him and his frown grows.

ah, whatever. she walks over to him, unbothered by the quickly growing alarm in his eyes. once next to him, she turns around to see wei wuxian staring unabashedly. her smile only widens.

“you’re going to thank me for this,” she says.

wei wuxian shakes himself, his eyes focusing, and immediately starts walking towards them.

lan wangji, voice flat but wavering, asks, “luo-guniang, what did you do?”

mianmian laughs, says, “i get to give a speech at your wedding,” and walks away just as wei wuxian reaches them.

(she does, actually, give a speech at their wedding. she may or may not be drunk during it, jin zixuan gets embarrassed for her, and she starts tearing up and has to hide it in the shoulder of her wife’s lovely well-tailored robes. it’s alright, though, wen qing doesn’t mind)

EDIT: now on AO3 with a real fic version from lwj’s pov!

[memory-lane-and-back-again]

Yes! Wwx, is different, but I think that could be on purpose too. Of everyone we see (and I know the narrative follows wwx so this us biased) he is the only one who really interacts with women in mdzs. Like engages with them, asks their opinions, regards them beyond their mere existence.

I don’t personally look as Jiang Yanli as a role model because she was his sister. She was a woman so her expectations and responsibilities are very different: she is not pushed in cultivation the way jc and wwx are and she is encouraged instead to marry. Whilst she does show an incredible amount of care and compassion, I do not know how much of that would be assumed as expected of a woman; in the sense that showing kindness and compassion is a ‘woman’s responsibility’

It’s kind of something always taken for granted, whether it’s Yanli, Mianmian of some other unnamed jiejie brought up by the narrative: they all play an assumed role of compassion and support. Even Jiang Yanli is never shown to have her own wants as a priority; she loves Jin Zixuan but does not begrudge wwx’s involvement in it bring broken off. The one time Yzy shows compassion to save her son, it is to go to her death.

In fact the narrative has an uncanny way of punishing compassion. Wwx’s compassion towards the Wens; Mianmian is shunned for her compassion when she dares to argue in favour of the yiling patriarch; Jiang Yanli’s death when she shows compassion for wwx; xxc’s compassion towards the injured rebounds because he rescues xue yang; Jin Zixuan

What do these threads all have in common? I’d argue that it’s how unwelcome compassion, a feminine trait, is in the cultivation world. I’m running with an idea from my Othello stuff I had to learn: the military sphere is part of the masculine world and as such women like Desdemona and Emilia do not belong there—hence the tragedy ensues, in part, because of this collision in spheres in a world that is extremely segregated. Lan Xichen is known for his kindness, but we often only see his kindness enacted in politically correct ways. he turns a blind eye to two people: his brother and meng yao and even then, it is Only when he can get away with it—he does not stop lwj receiving the discipline whip and does nothing to preserve and of the good memories of Jgy after the truth comes out. I like Lan Xichen too, but the ending, unlike with jc, is far less kind to him; he loses his composure entirely, reflective almost of the arc of a tragic hero—he doesn’t die so he’s not truly a tragic hero but he does his world view is shattered and he is left woefully bereft, unwittingly having the one thing he has maintained all his life (his composure) stripped from him.

Side note: wwx’s arc upto his first death would be considered a tragic death by genre conventions so in a way mdzs does explore what happens after the tragedy ends

My point is that even though Jiang Yanli is shown to be compassionate, I do not think it would have been socially expected for Jiang Cheng to rolemodel her behaviour or look up to her in any way. (He is blacklisted for his horrific number of expectations for a woman, if memory serves correct.) Could he have? Yes. But that is a lot to ask of someone living a cushy life where to society panders and benefits towards him.

Of course there are some exceptions to this rule of femininity equalling compassion. Yzy, Wen Qing and Wang Lingjiao.

Wen Qing is reluctantly kind, for her brother’s sake, but she makes it clear that she isn’t really in a position to do this when it puts her family at risk so badly. And then she chooses to help transfer wwx’s core to jc, which is a show of compassion. Wen Qing in this regard is quite unique because she has assumed a role that requires no compassion and has to struggle through upholding it against he better judgement—in the end her kindness still gets her killed as she and Wen Ning go in place of wwx in hopes to stop the threat on the burial mound and keep wwx and their family safe.

Yu Ziyuan and Wang Lingjiao are both presented as dislikable too. We feel almost a little cathartic for the karma they experience—their lack of delicate femininity is atypical and it shows in how out of place yzy is at lotus peer, her title as Madam Yu which is atypical of a married woman, and Wang Lingjiao’s tendency to attack any woman who poses a threat (mianmian namely).

Both of them have good reasons for this cruelty. Madam Yu is trying to reassert her life after an unwanted marriage and Wang Lingjiao’s livelihood is balanced upon being beautiful enough and interesting enough to Wen Chao to remain where she is. The fact these characters are humanised to us at all, not things wwx expressly considers, highlights the significance of these fragments of motivation they are shown to uphold.

But as far as the narrative goes, they are marked as shameful outliers socially for being uncompassionate women; whilst cultivators are shown to face social retribution for too much compassion.

"Jiang cheng is just like his mother"

So he is a classist abuser who unreasonably lashes his anger out on innocent people and victimize himself to gain a upper hand in arguments and hates wwx for invalid reasons, holds him accountable for shit he didn't do, scapegoats and tortures him.

for the first time in your life ,jc stans, you're right! Congratulations!! Lol

[robininthelabyrinth]

NingenShikkaku (on Ao3): I've read a wild hc somewhere about how WRH is actually still alive and running a barbecue restaurant in Qinghe. I'd very much love to read something along that note. Preferably with Lao Nie also alive and running said BBQ with WRH.

Wen Ruohan had been struck down at last. He lay on the floor senseless, the dire wound struck by Meng Yao seeping into a growing pool of blood. Even if just left along, he wouldn’t last long.

Meng Yao, satisfied with what he saw upon his return, lifted up his blade once more to cut off the tyrant’s head.

“Let me do it.”

He paused, then glanced at Nie Mingjue – who was in a fair bad state himself, covered in blood, hair loose, eyes red, barely able to lift himself off the wall he was leaning against. Even his voice was cracking, pained and hoarse.

“The final blow was mine,” Meng Yao reminded him. That was important, after all; he needed the credit of killing Wen Ruohan to get back into the Jin sect – to preserve his life, even, after what he’d done to Nie Mingjue.

“I know,” Nie Mingjue said. “You will have all the credit. But…please. Give him to me.”

Meng Yao thought about it. Everyone knew the story of Wen Ruohan murdering Nie Mingjue’s father through shattering his saber, dooming him to a slow painful death by qi deviation – no doubt Nie Mingjue just wanted to play some part in the man’s demise, however minimal, in order to appease his emotions or perhaps his honor.

Anyway, he’d already promised Meng Yao the credit. He shrugged and lowered his sword. “He’s all yours.”

Nie Mingjue nodded and pulled himself to a standing position, picking up Baxia with a wince. “I’ll do it,” he said, then gave Meng Yao a pointed look that made Meng Yao roll his eyes: he wanted to do it alone, too? Really?

Fine, it didn’t matter. Compared to Nie Mingue’s original reaction to finding out about Meng Yao’s involvement – threats of murder and all, but for Lan Xichen’s timely intervention – not wanting Meng Yao to be present during his final revenge was fairly minimal.

“I’ll go help Zewu-jun,” he said politely, and left Nie Mingjue behind.

Nie Mingjue waited until he was sure Meng Yao was fully gone to hobble over to where Wen Ruohan lay clinging onto the last remnants of life.

“The things I do for family,” he muttered, pulling out a transportation talisman and dropping it on the body. “Each of us more stupid than the next…I almost hope you really do bleed out, you bastard.”

When nothing was left but the swiftly fading glow of the disintegrating talisman, he grunted in satisfaction and went off to find his camp. He needed medical attention, and fast.

As for Wen Ruohan…

Well, Nie Mingjue’s father had a rotating staff of doctors at his side at all times, each of them well trained in battlefield medicine to help deal with any consequences from the qi deviations that still recurred every once in a while, though luckily none as dire as either the one that’d initially struck him down or the one six months after that which had temporarily convinced them all he wouldn’t make it. By now, most of the time they worked as waiters at the restaurant Nie Mingjue had set up to entertain his father in his retirement – apparently, restaurant wars were nearly as bloodthirsty as night-hunts, only the gossip was better – but they were still skilled and trained. If anything, they would probably appreciate the challenge of saving a man who’d been pierced through when all his defenses were down.

Assuming they managed to save him, they’d be able to bind him, too, the way they’d bound Nie Mingjue’s father, cutting them off from accessing their cultivation, eliminating the source of the poison that had been driving them mad. As for what Wen Ruohan would do after he healed up and regained his sanity, after he learned that he was never being allowed out again…

Well, Nie Mingjue just hoped Wen Ruohan liked barbeque.