#Also even if I didn't name the kid Visenya what would I name her

[theirondragonrants]

I have very few unshakable convictions about the Targaryen family (that's a lie, I have many) BUT my main 2 are:

1. Every baby named Aegon after the conqueror carries bad juju. The uncrowded, the II and the III with the dance, Aegon IV being a shitty shitty man, the Vth and Summerhall.

2. The name Visenya was SO cursed after Rhaenyra that no one else ever used it again and there's good reason for that. IT'S CURSED TOO.

The OG Aegon and Visenya cursed their names and you can't convince me otherwise

[horizon-verizon]

Hello, since we were on the topic of Jaehaera, Aegon III and Gaemon. Why do you think Aegon III became best friends with Gaemon, but couldn't stand to be around Jaehaera? Even Essie ''confessed'' that Gaemon was not Aegon II's son, I doubt many people bought it.

Also, the greens scrambled and presented theories that Jaehaera was the mother of Aegon's children (originally) but why the fuck would Aegon III name his firstborn son after Daeron the war criminal? Daeron despite his courtesy and looks, he was just the lesser evil of Aemond. Or how could they explain Jaehaera's daughter naming her son Daemon - after the man who traumatized her mother so?

They cannot accept that the greens' lost. The green stans in general are so... intresting. They hate HotD, but almost everything they love of their faves is HotD only creation, (biggest example is them loving s1e6/7 Alicent even if bookAlicent did not act like that) I sometimes wish they just adapted it as it was, with Alicent ''beefing'' with Rhaenyra, with the greens ALWAYS being the instigators and how pathetic Aegon, Aemond are. They even complain about the dreamer arc which was meant to make Helaena more intresting (even if was badly done)

I answer why he wasn't close to Jaehaera HERE...though I think this should be obvious, no offense.

Why Gaemon? Because Gaemon's parents are not like Jaehaera for the reasons in the post I link above AND Gaemon was the most available. Aegon had no one else who he be able to be intimate with and had an idea of what he went through, as Gaemon's own mother had also been killed/executed by Jaehaera's father Aegon II. Of course, he was also one of the only children around in a regency full of adults who see him as both too much a child and also a "job"; while Gaemon could have perceived Aegon as a king, he was younger than Aegon and thus have less of a real understanding of "king". So Gaemon likely treated him like a companion.

Alicent of s1 episode 6 & 7 def was the closest depiction in all the HotD episodes thus far of how bk!Alicent would act in that she would be hostile towards Rhaenyra, use disguised-barbed words against the elder Rhaenyra before others, and use underhanded tactics at every opportunity.

In the book, she is the one who first calls for any sort of corporal punishment or harm, for Aemond's lost eye. So her raging (verbally) at Rhaenyra--even at Viserys and demanding justice--and losing some composure is fairly canon compliant; it's possible that the book or the observers mitigated what she actually did and whatnot. However, it doesn't seem likely that she would have attacked Lucerys or Rhaenyra directly and physically. Not at this point, or at least convey her rage about Rhaenyra's supposed spoiledness for anyone to hear her. IDK, it could work if there hadn't been that attempt to dole out physical punishment herself, even if one argued she later did with Jaehaera....that was after she lost ALL her kids.

As for episode 6, Alicent being in the council didn't make sense and was not canon compliant. It didn't make sense bc Queen Consorts are never in council unless they are Visenya, Rhaenys, and Alysanne. The first two conquered Westeros alongside Aegon and beyond him and made laws/policies/whole institutions independently of him. Alysanne was someone Jaehaerys always trusted, grew up with, and at least was as interested in the Targaryen dynasty's advancement for its own sake instead of another house' sake, respected for her intellect more than we can say the same between Viserys and Alicent. HotD failed/refused to give a proper explanation as to how/why Alicent, a Queen Consort, and not just Otto--the Hand--was put on the council...esp since Otto didn't have to elevate Alicent into anything at all or encourage her into obedience. He could just tell her what happened at the council after said meetings, as men usually did or are wont to do in such systems. He'd think he was enforcing boundaries of what women should be or not be doing or at least keep up that illusion by keeping Alicent out.

But say IF either GRRM did have bk!Alicent in the council or show!Alicent's journey to become part of or able to be a part of council meetings was shown and justified in HotD. Again, the behavior shown on screen in epi 6 was pretty "accurate" or at least very believable/plausible.

[omgellendean]

So, the possibly controversial opinion about R/L I mentioned before is that I don't think Rhaegar planned to get Lyanna pregnant to get the third head of the dragon. I think he actually believed he and Lyanna were the heads of the dragon.

From what I can tell, the prevalent fandom idea about Rhaegar's take on the dragon's three heads is that he:

considered his son Aegon the prince that was promised,

believed that Rhaenys is one of the heads of the dragon,

escaped with or kidnapped Lyanna hoping to get the third baby, which would also become the head of the dragon.

As a proof, the fact that Rhaegar named his kids after the Conquerors is usually brought up, and him saying "there must be one more" in Dany's vision, which implies there were two heads already.

But, while this line of thought is reasonable, I don't really believe Rhaegar included children other than Aegon in his beliefs.

Rhaenys was born and named in the period when Rhaegar thought himself to be the prince that was promised. We can probably all agree that he didn't consider his baby daughter as his future partner in saving the world back then. Aemon's wording to me seems to imply the idea about Aegon being the real PTWP came up only after his birth ("later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived"), but even if it happened earlier — the dragon still needs two more heads, and I think Rhaegar could believe himself to be one.

And no, there's no requirement for the heads to be siblings and/or lovers (though we most likely will get a love triangle between the dragonriders bc Martin loves this shit). Dany makes this guess because Jorah repeatedly references Aegon and his sisters when they talk about her visions in ACoK and ASoS:

"The three heads were Aegon and his sisters." (ACoK, Daenerys V) "Rhaenys and Visenya were Aegon's wives as well as his sisters. You have no brothers, but you can take husbands." (ASoS, Daenerys I)

However, when Aemon realises that Dany is the PTWP, he laments being too old and weak to be the head of the dragon. It's pretty clear he wishes not to marry his great-great-niece but to guide and support her. Rhaegar could envision himself playing a similar role to his son: to help him fulfill the prophecy, perhaps to fight alongside him in the future great battle.

Now to why I think Rhaegar didn't want to get a baby from Lyanna to complete the family team but saw her as another head of the dragon. Mostly because their connection has started at the Harrenhall tourney, before Aegon (or the idea of him being the actual promised prince) was even born. So there wouldn't be any necessity for Rhaegar to look for another mother for his child. If the idea to steal Lyanna away started to form here, he was looking for a partner for himself.

Also I just think they were genuinely in love, however egoistical and reckless it was of them (mainly of him, of course). For Rhaegar to completely forget any decorum or political concerns and give the flower crown to Lyanna right in front of Elia, he had to be really impressed by her. And Lyanna at Harrenhall was protecting the weak and (most likely) fighting as the mystery knight, the one whose shield Rhaegar brought back to the castle. And she cried over his song, but again, was fierce when her little brother tried to tease her about it. He had to be at least partly impressed by Lyanna's nonconformity. All this has markings of a romance (especially if you read other Martin's works), just as Lyanna holding that damn flower crown even on her deathbed. And romance is more likely to be about them wanting to be heroes together, not to get a child to play supporting role to their half-brother.

[atopvisenyashill]

You know how you said that it was stupid that Rhaenys and Viserys didn't marry since that would've united their claims? Well, what if they did marry? What goes down? Who would Corlys marry? And what about Aemma? Does she marry Daemon instead or maybe someone else?

Okay, so this is all wild speculation and opinion so it is NOT written very well. Just follow the train of thought wherever it takes you, don't worry about going down a tangent, it's fine, we're fine!!

SO…I mean okay, if Rhaenys and Viserys grow up believing they’re going to marry, I would imagine a dynamic similar to Rhaena/Aegon, which is to say like, fine? They like each other well enough, Viserys is fine being ruled by Rhaenys, altho there will be inevitable “make sure Rhaenys doesn’t look hotter than Viserys on Meleys” type stuff the way there was with Rhaena not being allowed to ride Dreamfyre bc Aegon’s dragon was too small (I think Viserys was always going to claim Balerion, but I wonder, if he's engaged to Rhaenys, that the dragonkeepers don't encourage him to claim one of the younger, faster ones, so Rhaenys isn't showing him up? I mean no matter what, I don't think Viserys is ever claiming a young dragon. There's The Narrative but also, that man probably hated riding a dragon, he just wanted to chill with Balerion and read to him). So even with the kind of clash in their personalities, you could do worse than marrying a relative you feel okay with in this series, especially as a Targaryen princess, and both Viserys and Rhaenys would realize that.

BUT. if they marry because, say, alysanne or jaehaerys, suggest it specifically as a way of combing their claims and crowning viserys king and rhaenys queen, well that’s a whole different can of worms. that’s probably a worse aegon/visenya dynamic - rhaenys will feel resentful of being tied to & expected to be subservient to his claim, and viserys, eternal people pleaser that expects people to please him right back is um, not gonna cope well with that (see also: his marriage to alicent).

i would imagine in either case they’d take the throne more or less without any problems. i can see rhaenys talking viserys into letting her rule the way visenya & rhaenys did (could she push to be named queen regnant besides his king regnant, a la william & mary?? im doubtful but i do think rhaenys would insist on the ability to make law & run the small council without viserys needing final say, and i think she’d get it too). given that rhaenys seemed on the whole healthier than aemma (largely because she was giving birth at 17 and not 13), i think they’re probably fine in that area but even if the two of them have issues with living sons, well, rhaenys is certainly not about to let her daughter’s claim be put aside for the likes of daemon fuckin targaryen, and she’s going to be a lot smarter on ensuring her daughter takes the throne after her. i do imagine regardless of whatever changes rhaenys makes, gyldayn refers to her as some sort of harpy badgering poor viserys tho lmao. I think she'd be remembered much less fondly than Alysanne and Rhaenys, again more in line with Visenya, because it would be obvious that she resents her marriage, and she would be attempting to actively play politics and make changes, and both Westeros and Gyldayn get really resentful when women Do Things. But the same way no one could check Visenya, no one is going to check Rhaenys because Viserys is not going to check her. While Rhaenys is deeply resentful, and Viserys is definitely feeling weird about his wife, this is best case scenario fo rhim - all the power of a king without the responsibility. He can have his parties, his songs, his drink, and not worry about the line of succession because Rhaenys had kids, and Rhaenys does the ruling.

as for who everyone else marries….kinda depends on what is cooking in alysanne’s psyche in the mid to late 90s lmao. i think the general theory is that alysanne threw daemon in the vale to help rhaenys’ claim (so rhaenys would be uncontested in the crownlands, and probably so daemon would destroy viserys’ support in the vale by being daemon), and tbf there is mountains of evidence that alysanne plans marriage matches based around punishing the person she’s matching. i think in this scenario, alysanne would be outwardly really supportive of rhaenys & viserys but inwardly super angry, resentful, feeling weird about rhaenys being forced to merge her claim instead of just ruling on her own, and she’s gonna take that out on daemon, so his ass is still going to runestone. we don’t know who arranged the aemma/viserys match (could have been baelon given that alysanne was avoiding the capital at that point) and as for Corlys, his attraction to Rhaenys was a) status b) DRAGON RIDER and he doesn’t really get that with any other woman from this era. all that to say…..i’m wildly speculating here because i think it’s unlikely daemon marries aemma, and i also think it’s likely daemon would inevitably get psycho sexually obsessed with a daughter of viserys.

for aemma…i don’t think it’s out of the question that alysanne suggests corlys for her, and if she’s not married off to viserys, i think alysanne takes a more active role in her life. it means aemma likely doesn’t marry until she’s 16/17, but if aly is arranging it, it’s still likely to an old dude. BUT. i actually think borros baratheon isn’t out of the question here - he’s partial valyrian descent, we don’t know exactly how old he is but he’s probably at least in the same ballpark as aemma, and he’s first born & heir to storm’s end. she could also wind up in white harbor, considering the manderlys press the point in the dance & alysanne seemed at least a bit charmed by the northerners, but i think borros would be most likely.

corlys….the thing about him is that he’s pragmatic, ambitious. yes, he loves rhaenys, but both of them are aware of what privileges the other brings to their marriage. corlys is not only ambitious but (imo) he is aching to prove that the velaryons are just as valyrian, just as powerful as the targaryens - having three dragon riding children was important to him. and look at marilda - precocious, curious, intelligent young girls are very clearly his type. he wouldn’t be cruel to aemma but im not sure he could love her as fiercely as he did rhaenys. and he seemed in no hurry to marry either - i think corlys was being purposefully choosey, biding his time until the perfect match appeared. I'm not sure Corlys would wait like forty or fifty years to marry, but if Rhaenys and Viserys have a girl early enough, if Corlys perhaps has a friendship with Rhaenys....does he ask to marry her daughter? OR OR maybe he does marry Aemma, and then encourages her to claim a dragon.

now i'm thinking about aemma the dragon rider, aemma the daughter-wife of corlys. a better and also much worse life for aemma, haha.

[alicent-boleyn]

the subtle thief of youth

Word count: 1,247 words

SUMMARY: Berenice sees the end of childhood, 157 AC.

Berenice was not required to rise with the sisters, long before the break of dawn, none of the young girls were. She often did, regardless, eager to begin the day. While the other noble girls slept soundly in their beds, she dressed quickly, not wanting to miss Lauds. She crept through the halls to the chapel where all the sisters had gathered and snuck in, hanging in the shadows to watch and listen.

“Father, open our minds, Mother, open our hearts. Warrior, keep us strong, Maiden, keep us kind. Smith, help us remain steadfast, and Crone, help us remain vigilant,” they chanted, voices resonating through the stony room. Mother Celia led them into a hymn, “Lend Me Thy Shield,” and then another.

Berenice closed her eyes and let the sister's voices wash away the remnants of sleep and fill her with the light of the Seven. Sister Emmeline, who Berenice was very fond of, read a passage from The Seven-Pointed Star. How she loved to listen to them read! She would love to read, too, and sing, and lead the sisters in prayer, and do all the things the sisters did. Mother Celia, who ran the motherhouse, said that she would consider taking her in as a novice once she flowered, but only if her mother consented. Berenice had not seen her mother, Visenya, in three years and could count the letters she had gotten from her in that time on one hand. She did not think Mother Celia would have a very hard time getting Visenya to let her stay.

As Lauds ended, Berenice slipped back to the dormitory with everyone none the wiser. She got back in bed, hoping her bedmates didn't notice her leaving in the first place. It wouldn't be long before they were roused for breakfast and their morning prayers, so she simply laid back, watching the sun's first rays rise through the dorm window.

-

Not even the most noble girls were spared hard chores at the motherhouse, and today, Berenice was assigned the unenviable task of working the herb garden. It was not a solitary task, and with her straw hat, shears, and basket, she got to work with two other girls. Not being too fond of this chore, she chatted with them to pass the time.

“How are the goats?” she asked Lylah, the lanky blonde of five and ten who usually minded the dairy goats, but was currently elbow deep in the mint plot.

“Oh, very well! Misty's kids have arrived, and so have Clover and Daisy's, though Daisy's gone gargety and I'll have to ask Sister Bree about what to do, because she knew just how to fix that last time it happened to Danny-Girl, and also Maggie -”

“Do you really know the name of every damn nanny out there?” asked Alerie, a sour-mouthed girl of one and ten, a year older than Berenice.

“Language!” That was Sister Amy shouting. “Berenice, your mother is here. Clean up, be quick about it.”

Berenice was frozen in place, eyes widened in surprise. Her mother? Here?

“Quickly, Princess!”

She returned her supplies to the shed, removing her hat and dirty apron. In the dormitory, she changed her dress to something more suitable to meet her lady mother. Her heart raced as she walked to the chamber where Visenya was waiting.

Why is she here, now, after all this time? Berenice knew she should be excited to see her, but so far her mother has been content to leave her to the care of the Sisters, with only a passing interest in talking to the flesh of her flesh. Sister Amy met her at the dormitory door and escorted her to the visiting rooms.

Berenice was stunned by her mother's appearance. She could not tell if it was grotesqueness or beauty that made her heart skip a beat. Visenya towered over everyone in the room, her dragon-scale birthmarks obscured by a black net veil. Her stark silvery white hair was artfully sculpted into a crown, with a single whip-like braid hanging behind her. Her severe features were pulled into a mask of disdain.

“Where are your manners, child? I called for my daughter, not a peasant girl.” Berenice curtsied deeply in response. “Better. Come, sit with me.” When they were both on the couch, her mother took her hands. For a moment, Visenya's face softened, before refashioning itself into something even harder than before. “The King, your uncle, has died. I have been called to court, and you must come with me.”

Berenice felt tears well up in her eyes and her lips began to tremble. She had met her mother's brother only once, as a very little girl, and his death did not sadden her as much as the fact that she had to leave. “And when will I return here?”

“You won't, girl.”

“No!” she shouted, throwing herself off the couch and onto her feet, almost before she could stop herself. This was home! This was more than home, even, because here she could serve the Seven! “You can't!”

Visenya slapped her across the face. “I am your mother, and more importantly, I am a princess of the blood. You will do as you are bid, am I understood?” Tears openly streamed down Berenice's cheeks, strangling her voice. She nodded her assent, but that did not satisfy her mother, who yanked on her ear. “Am I understood!”

“Yes, Your Highness.”

“Good.” Visenya pulled her riding gloves back on. As she walked out of the room, she called, “You have an hour to prepare. Have your things ready or we leave without them.”

After her mother left, Berenice was escorted back to the dormitory, and Sister Amy helped her gather her clothes and things into her trunk. Sister Amy, who was always so inflexible about rules, gave her a little book of prayers, even though only novices were supposed to have one. Still crying, she thanked Sister Amy, choking on every word.

Sister Amy kneeled and turned Berenice towards her. With both hands on the young girl's shoulders, she whispered, “Her Highness may have borne you from her womb, but she has shown herself not to be your Mother.” She gently stroked the reddened skin where Visenya had slapped the child. “I know you wished to enter as a novice here, and I know you will never see this holy house again. Pray the hours every day, and hold yourself to what is right and just. Gods willing, you shall find yourself a righteous calling in marriage, as it seems Her Highness intends for you. As you have obeyed Mother Celia, obey your true Mother, and the King, and most of all, obey your heart.” Sister Amy placed a kiss on Berenice's forehead and rose from her knees. “We must finish before Her Highness thinks we mean to hold you hostage.”

The princess giggled at stoic Sister Amy making a joke. Before long, she and her trunks were packed onto a carriage. It was made with the highest skill gold could buy, but Berenice could not sit comfortably. She squirmed on the padded seat, like a worm. Her mother was, thankfully, not sitting with her, instead choosing to ride her horse for the first leg of their travels. When the carriage began to roll, Berenice whipped her head to the motherhouse, hoping to hold it in her sight as long as possible. Her mother strode over and tied the curtains shut.

[tweedfrog]

Was Rhaegar hoping for Elia to die giving birth to Aegon? I mean he crowned Lyanna while Elia was still pregnant and before he learned she couldn't have any more children.

I dont think Rhaegar was hoping for Elia to die giving birth for a couple of reasons

1 - He could have just tried killing her in an easier way by making her have a 3rd child and then marrying Lyanna after an appropriate mourning period if thats what he wanted. I cant remember whether it was that the maester said Elia just couldnt have more children (as in couldnt concieve) or whether it was that Elia couldnt have more children safely (as in her and the child would live past the birth). There was quite a gap between when he crowned Lyanna and when he ran off with her and he seems to have run off with her after Aegon was born. This means that he knew Elia possibly wouldnt live past a third pregnancy when he decided to take off with Lyanna. The timeline around Roberts Rebellion is quite fuzzy though so this is hard to piece together. If he ran off with Lyanna before Ageon was born then maybe???

2 - His fixation on the prophecy - the things he is doing with his children (trying to have 3, using the naming scheme of the conquerors, Having Aegon be conceived during the time of the comet etc) stem from a desire to fulfill the prophecy and create the prince that was promised. I know fandom argues about how much him taking off with Lyanna was based on "love" for her vs seeing her as a vessel to bring forth his third child but from his actions during the war we can at least see he isnt actively plotting Elia's death. He kept Elia and Rhaenys and Aegon on dragonstone until Aerys recalled them to KL to use as hostages for Dornish loyalty.

3 - Finally characterisation as a reason he wouldnt do this. In the books Rhaegar isn't portrayed (or thought of by anyone except Robert) as an evil person. Hoping your wife kicks the bucket giving birth to your second kid is Craster level evil and i dont think GRRM set up Rhaegar to be characterized this way. I think he's just selfish/has enough of a messiah complex to simply not care about the way his actions are affecting his first wife. "Of course she'd be happy to be the mother of 2 heroes they're going to save westeros from the long night and shes lucky to be part of that" etc etc.

Also just from an outsiders perspective he seems to be either consciously or subconsciously trying to replicate the original trio of Aegon/Rhaenys/Visenya with himself as Aegon Lyanna as Visenya and Elia as Rhaenys. Snd with his own 3 children as the 3 conquerors. This would require Elia to live and be cast in the role of one of the wives.

Of course the thing is despite not actively hoping for Elia to die his political stupidity and actions cause her death and the deaths of their children anyway. That's one of the things i find so interesting about the situation - hes ostensibly this gentle clever handsome prince who at every turn makes the WORST decision possible.

He probably didnt set out to hurt Elia's feelings during the Tourney of Harrenhal! He probably didn't want to have sex with Elia so soon after her bedrest ended after her 1st pregnancy but you see he has to because the comet is here! He probably wants her on Dragonstone away from his clearly insane father but it's really just easier to leave her in KL and he promises he'll somehow fix all this in some way during an unspecified time during the future!

His moitivations mattered less than the result of his actions because functionally nothing changes if he hoped Elia died. He got her killed anyway. Hes like a bad person but not because hes evil deep down it's because he consistantly makes choices that hurt almost everyone close to him to serve a prophecy. And what makes it even worse is that he seems to realize these are the wrong choices but he goes ahead and makes them anyways because he thinks its for the greater good or its just easier for him personally.

[navree]

hey I wanted to ask you about rhaena the fucking queen in East that girl didn't deserve what she went thro for real but let's go to her life since she was born until aegon conqueror death how you imagine aegon his emotions when he held first time we know he doted on her but what does it mean did he try to spent time with her as possible as he could why he dote on rhaena because she looked like rhaebys what is the relationship of a dead woman to his granddaughter yeh she looked like her but is it fact aegon will and is always obsessed with rhaenys and never got over her so to feel like rhaenys is with him he uses rhaena cause it s creepy you are favpurite granddaughter for just being alike to the woman who died in a horrible way ( poor rhaenys ) even thought your personality is visenya poterraly whome aegon didnt standlater ...???? What iwant is how you analyse aegon and rhaena relationship how you see their dynamics and do you think he tried to spent time with her as he could ..

Apologies if this answer is a bit garbled but I've got a bit of a headache so I might be misreading things, but Aegon and Rhaena's relationship is certainly one I like to think about.

The text is pretty explicit in the fact that Aegon clearly adored Rhaena, not just because she was named after Rhaenys (which was likely mostly an Aenys decision because that was his mother) but also just because she was his first grandchild, that always gets parents emotional. There's also the fact that Aenys just having a kid was a relief for Aegon; he was one of the people who thought Aenys was going to straight up die after Rhaenys disappeared in Dorne, so getting to see him grow up and be a father would likely mean a lot. It's not just about Rhaena reminding Aegon of Rhaenys, but also what she represents for the family and for his child that likely overwhelmed him and got him to make such an uncharacteristic public display of emotion.

And when it comes to their relationship, I think time is also a factor. We know that Aegon appears to have been a pretty involved grandfather, especially after Aenys took over a lot of his kingly functions and he functionally retired to Dragonstone. He spent time with all of his older grandkids (Jahaerys was only a toddler and Alysanne was a baby so they were likely still with nurses and their parents primarily), given that he died while telling stories of the Conquest to Aegon the Uncrowned and Prince Viserys. He clearly spent a lot of time with these kids, and Rhaena likely occupied a special place just by being the eldest and therefore the one he spent the most time with, and yes likely because, as his first granddaughter who probably did look a bit like her grandmother, she did remind him of Rhaenys. And even if her personality was a bit like Visenya's (tho most Visenya coding Rhaena gets happens later in life due to the tragedies she suffers during Maegor's reign and its aftermath), it doesn't seem like it was Visenya's personality that bothered Aegon much, since Orys had some similar traits, just Visenya herself and the entire mess of circumstances that came out of Rhaenys's death that drove them apart.

I don't think there was any sort of creepy attempt to "replace" Rhaenys with Rhaena in Aegon's head though, if I'm reading part of your ask right. What a Targaryen would consider to be "crossing the line" is heavily blurred due to the fact that they're practicing all sorts of incest right and left, but it looks like there's some sort of line drawn in terms of getting involved with direct descendants (unlike the irl Ptolemies because I'm pretty sure one of them married his daughter after his sister-wife died, congrats to the Targaryens because as bad as they can be they will never get to the level of those fuckers). Aegon just appears to have been someone who valued family and familial relationships higher than most, considering that even if we disregard his marriages, his closest friend was his brother Orys, he was heavily involved in raising Aenys, he personally knighted Maegor, and again, was clearly invested in the lives of his grandchildren. He and Rhaena likely just were the closest due to having had the most longlasting relationship due to her being the eldest.

I think Aegon's relationships with his grandchildren, especially Rhaena, were probably the simplest he ever had. They're his grandchildren, and so he doted on them and spent time with them without the burdens of parenthood or grooming for the throne or too much of the pall cast by his other investments in other people getting in the way.

[simplynotcapable]

I loved the recent update on Silver and Moonstone. Just Visenya asking Rhaenyra to give her Brigit--it had such Daemon asking Viserys for Rhaenyra's hand vibes. *chef's kiss*

Question(s):

if Brigit existed in a universe with Visenya & Baelon, would the three of them been like Laena, Rhaenyra and Daemon in dragonglass and gold?

2. also, if Aerea had survived, would she have become Queen Regnant after Baelon? if they had their four sons after her and if they didn't?

3. If, god forbid, Visenya had died giving birth and Rhaenyra and Laena had immediately taken Aerea away from Baelon--would Aerea have inherited the Iron Throne anyway after Baelon's death, or would it have gone to Rhaenyra and Daemon's eldest son?

{Sorry for so many questions, I just love your series and the characters so so much!! <33}

thank you so much!!

i do think of brigit as a lesbian, so i would have to say no they wouldn’t. in a version where Baelon was born a girl, i can see it, but at the same time i dont know when they’d have time or inclination to develop that relationship because of all the new problems they’d be facing with inheritance, he and visenya being expected to marry other people, etc.

she does exist in the dragonglass and gold universe though! visenya just never develops a friendship with her. i think they’ve probably met a few times honestly and she just never really registers on visenya’s radar.

with aerea, it really depends on what kind of person she would have ended up being, what relationship she would have had with baelon, and whether or not he perceives her as more competent for the job than his sons. so that’s more of a “some lives yes, some lives no” answer than anything. i do think in this life he probably would have named her heir eventually, but that’s author bias because of how I imagine her if she had lived. really no way of knowing.

( baelon would have gotten that shit handled so much better than viserys did, though. no civil war on HIS kids’ watch, thank you.)

In the case where Visenya died, and Nyra somehow managed to get Aerea out of the Keep before Baelon killed her, she’s definitely never going to be heir. he would have to name her heir explicitly and throw aside years of tradition, which is fight enough whenever you love your daughter and absolutely inconceivable when you want her dead. in that version without visenya, baelon would literally be pretending she did not exist at all. she could not even visit the Keep with Nyra and her family because baelon would 100% end her immediately. he has major beef with this child, and he is for sure not going to pass her the kingdom when he dies.

so in that version of events, yes, Aegon would end up being Baelon’s heir because he would refuse to remarry. or one of Nyra’s younger sons or her grandsons, depending on when Baelon died and whether Aegon was still alive at that time.

Don’t apologize!! It makes me really happy that people actually enjoy it lol, and i love talking about my characters. I really appreciate you reading <3

[unusual-raccoon]

the way this reply made me want to braid your hair omfggg

'you and i are not in love, we are just the same' >> I screamed. Because, yeah, it's giving Daemond. I think about Aemond's name as well. Even being named after his uncle would shape the way he views their connection.

You are so SO right that part of their dynamic is a one-sided obsession/idolization. Not Aemond having a parasocial relationship with his uncle 😭.

If Daemon Was A Flop - oh bestie you couldn't be more right. Obsessed with the idea of them achieving peak Visenya by being together??? (not necessarily in a romantic context, but like together as in the Battle Above God's Eye).

(and jace, which ..... )

Don't make me think the Jacemon thoughts 😵‍💫!!

You're right that Aemond is definitely more self-serving in regards to claiming to want the throne? (Despite not naming himself King). Whereas in contrast Daemon demanded the Queensguard on Dragonstone swear not only to Rhaenyra, but also to her true heir and firstborn son.

You're on the money with Daemon having a sense of sadness about him. It brings to mind the late-game GoT quote when Daenerys tells Jon "we all love what we're good at" and Jon frowns and says "I don't". I feel that resonates with Daemon as well.

Preach, Daemon getting as many Visaemon crumbs as he can get by railing his brother's kids?

I think about the Vhagar connections all the time?? Like i can't remember if it's canon or not, but didn't Daemon want Viserys to claim Vhagar after Balerion died??? And then his annoying Hightower son ends up doing it years later.

Absolutely agree on the ship dynamic, not every ship needs to have the characters being these clandestine fated lovers. I love the idea that Daemond are just kinda compatible. They're the same.

The TOXICITY is exactly where it's at with these two.

"Which one are you?" That boy would never recover.

Thank you so so much for such a detailed reply 🥺. You are so brilliant. Kisses to you too, bestie.

On the topic of Vhagar and Caraxes 💚❤️(see my answered ask from @korovievs)…let’s talk Daemond…

Need to know your thoughts on them. Personally, they give me hives (in a good way?)

^ veryyy much this LMAO. and very specifically just the chorus from ethel cain's two children in a motel.

on a more serious note. the second sonism of it all..... i think daemon occupies this idol space in aemond's mind, like this powerful fighter who wields dark sister, this monstrous sceptre who exists on the edges of aemond's world. he surely wouldve grown up with tales of daemon in the stepstones etc, then experiences his fathers rage at daemon and rhaenyra marrying. i think aemond would v much relate to having an older brother who hates him, and who the court percieves as violent and occasionally terrible. of course, unlike daemon, aemond doesnt actually do anything except stalk around (until luke). like hes daemon if daemon was a flop. what alsoooo gets me is how they both try to make themselves copies of visenya - daemon has the sword but aemond has the dragon; daemon has the fighting ability and aemond has.... the hair? (aemond styling himself after daemon...) as i said flop and imo hes painfully aware of how he doesnt measure up, hence his obsession with daemon during the war. destroying your god to become him etc etc

also IM obsessed with the fact that despite daemond's apparent longing for the throne neither of them actually depose of their brothers...... the way they both are misunderstood by the general westeros population oooouughh. something about loyalty. i think aemond would try to make this point to daemon, that they both support their brothers' claims, but daemon would never be able to move past 'but you have rhaenyra. she is your eldest sister. your loyalty should be to her'. even when viserys is dead daemon defaults to rhaenyra (and jace, which ..... ), but when aemond and criston search for aegon he's all like 'i intend to be found' as though aegon's son doesnt exist lmaoooo

like i do think that theyre mirrors of each other and that they would recognise that..... (this being in some au where they fuck). aemond would be like 'this is what i want to be... wild and free' but not really capable of recognising the deep sadness daemon has to him? (imo daemon's always got this... something, he doesnt actually like revel in his position, yk? hes violent, but not like psychopathic gleeful about it, i guess). on the other hand daemon would look at aemond and be like oh my god boy you are pathetic. full of arrogant bluster. i think daemon would still fuck him but there wouldnt be the obsessiveness on his side that aemond would have. like half of the pleasure would be from aemond being viserys son. the other half would be from him liking aemond being a psychotic little baby freak. depends on the dynamics i think there are several good ways. actually rethinking about it the ONE thing about aemond that would actually send daemon crazy (in a bad way) is vhagar. i think he'd be so obsessive about finding out WHAT it is about this boy that's similar to his laena and his father.....

anyway as a ship i dont ever think theyd be 'in love' (see lyrics) but like. theyre the same. except theyre not. except they are, but theyre not 😵‍💫 like i very easily see daemon being aemond's whole world while to daemon his nephew is a like a little pet to amuse him when rhaenyra is upset with him. hmhmmng toxicity <3

even in like a modern/well-adjusted au i think aemond would be like uncle daemon pls like me pls pls pls and daemon is jsut a bit like. and which one are you

lots of thoughts..... i have more im pretty sure but thats all i can think of for now!!!

thank you for asking i hope this was at least a little bit interesting! would lvoe to talk about them more. kisses kisses

[frankcastleonlyfans]

part two of dad!daemon headcanon pleaseeee 😭

𝐇𝐀𝐕𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐂𝐇𝐈𝐋𝐃𝐑𝐄𝐍 ���𝐈𝐓𝐇 𝐃𝐀𝐄𝐌𝐎𝐍 𝐖𝐎𝐔𝐋𝐃 𝐈𝐍𝐂𝐋𝐔𝐃𝐄, 𝐏𝐓𝟐:

pairing: dad!daemon targaryen x mom!reader

reblogs, feedbacks and likes are appreciated. i hope you like it!

warnings: fluff, daemon being an awesome dad, more fluff, just pure fluff.

    · ┈┈┈┈┈┈ · ୨♡୧ · ┈┈┈┈┈┈ ·

It's been five years since you gave birth to your last child.

You and Daemon had a beautiful baby girl, that he decided to name Viserra.

Since her birth, Daemon became even more protective towards you and the children.

He knew his brother wasn't going to live many more years, and Alicent was showing herself to be a threat on the council.

You tried not to worry too much, and also to keep him calm.

Daemon spends most of his days teaching sword fighting to his sons — and daughter.

Alyssa always wanted to play with your husband’s legendary sword, Darksister.

On her fifteenth name day celebration, he gave her her own.

"Valyrian steel..." She whispered, her eyes were full of emotion. "Father, I don't know what to say"

"All legendary swords have names. The conqueror had Blackfyre, I have Darksister, your brother Rhaegon named his Devour. What's yours called?"

Alyssa being your husband's daughter, you couldn't think of a different answer;

"Doombringer."

Daemon couldn't be more proud of his little knight to be.

But he was also worried about her.

Alyssa finally became of age, and Daemon's brother, King Viserys, thought it would be the best for the house of the dragon to marry one of his sons to her.

Of course it wouldn't be with the second heir to the throne. Aegon was already married to his sister, Helaena.

And, Daeron was in Oldtown, so certainly it wouldn't be to him either.

"What did you say to him?" You asked your husband.

"I said, I'm not marrying my little girl to that psychopath one-eyed son of his!"

"Daemon!"

"What? I don't care if he exiles me for the hundredth time, my daughter is not going to marry that freak! The kid killed cats for fun when he was 12, Y/N!"

And like a good father, he didn't mind making her company.

Fortunately, he could enjoy his youngest daughter as she remained the only child between his teens.

Viserra was curious and a fast learner.

Daemon usually took her for walks on the dragonpit to see Caraxes, but never to rides, because she wasn't fond of heights.

She liked to learn about the dragons but not to be on top of one.

She also loved when Daemon talked to her in high valyrian.

"Do you wanna know something interesting?" He said playfully and she nodded, "The valyrian word for "love" and "need" are the same."

"Really?" She gasped.

"Really." He chuckled, "For example, jorrāelagon ao. Now, what did I say?"

"Love you."

"Yes, but so is "need you". The phrases are the same."

"Jorrāelagon ao" She repeated, hugging Daemon's huge torso.

He loved his girls more than anything, but he'd always remember to pay some attention to his boys too.

At the age of 18, Rhaegon spent most of his time on the westerosi skies, riding his dragon, Araxes.

Daemon not only taught his sons sword fighting, but gladly showed them his amazing riding skills.

With the help of his father, Maegon finally found a dragon for himself. He claimed Seasmoke after Laenor's passing.

Both boys shared their father's adventurous spirit, and they loved to be on the air.

"I bet Aemond couldn't do this with that old burden of his!" Shouted Rhaegon, exhibiting his riding tricks.

"Vhagar can't even put herself in the air without falling to pieces!" Maegon mocked.

"She's so old that she saw Aemond's hair and thought it was Visenya taking her to conquer Dorne!" Daemon laughed.

His kids were his joy.

a/n: check out part 3 here

[iris-sistibly]

The Targ Talk (a review series): House of the Dragon episode 8

[🔥]

REASONS WHY I LOVE DAEMON TARGARYEN: 

He personally got the dragon eggs for his and Rhaenyra's babies- he could have easily ordered someone else to do that for him but he didn't, he made sure to pick all of those and was really happy upon learning that Syrax laid three eggs (just enough for his three young kids and the unborn baby Visenya).

The way he cares for his pregnant wife- I remembered him kissing Laena's belly and now the way he touched Rhaenyra's baby bump just shows how much he loves his children.

He supports his wife- I STAN A SUPPORTIVE HUBBY

He protects his wife and stepsons- Damn bitch when he slashed Vaemond's head with Dark Sister, that was so freaking satisfying. Vaemond learned the hard way to never mess with his family. I also love that scene when the boys fought in the middle of the supper and Daemon stood in between to protect Jace and Luke. Him giving Aemond a warning look was so good! 

Fun fact: When Vaemond insisted that he should be named as Corlys' successor and accused Laenor's sons to be bastards and Rhaenyra a whore, the princess ordered her new hubby Daemon to have his head removed and his carcass was fed to Syrax. Also, Corlys Velaryon lived until the reign of Aegon III, not sure if they're gonna keep him for that long in the show though (Source: Fire & Blood by George RR Martin) 

He never betrayed his brother- sure, he was hurt with how Viserys treated him in the earlier episodes, but as I've said before, their bond as brothers will always be there and their love for each other never faded. I saw how hard he controlled his emotions when he saw the very weak Viserys for the first time in years, how he helped him up when he was having a hard time climbing to his throne, and Daemon picking up Viserys' crown and placing it back to his head spoke volumes. I've read on twitter that the crown falling off was accidental and Matt Smith just picked that up and they continued filming. But even if it wasn't really a part of that scene, to me it turned out to be the most powerful scene in this episode because it translated as showing what Viserys really meant to Daemon: he is his older brother, he is his king, and he will always be faithful to him. 

Daemon is such a misunderstood character in both the show and the novel: he's unpredictable, he would do crazy things, yet he's not afraid to show what he wants and what he does not want, he's not a hypocrite, and he will kill for the people he loves. That being said, Daemon is a perfect representation of the people who often gets a lot of hate for…basically doing whatever the fuck they want even if it doesn't fit into the norms, or it does not uphold the moral bullshits of the society or whatever but is actually more humane than many if not most goody-two shoes people.

Just like Milly, I think Emma did an amazing job at showing Rhaenyra's vulnerable side. The princess has always been a daddy's girl, and it broke my heart when she pleaded for her father's help to secure Luke's claim to Driftmark and how she was so overwhelmed by the burdens that came with her title as heir to the iron throne. 

Another sweet moment between Viserys and Rhaenyra was when the latter introduced Aegon and Viserys to their grandsire, the babies are so cute! 

Rhaenyra may be the female version of Daemon in so many ways, but like her father, she loves all of her children very much and would do anything to protect them. She'd swallow her pride in exchange for her children's safety. She chose to leave King's Landing to keep them away from all those nasty rumors, and now she asked for Rhaenys' help to back Luke's claim (which I'm very glad she did), betrothing Jace and Luke to Baela and Rhaena would further strengthen their alliance. A wise move I must say, but I fucking hate the things that are gonna happen between the blacks and the Velaryons. 

Jacaerys and Lucerys are such gentlemen! I love that Jace works so hard to prepare himself as the next king, and how he protected Baela from his stupid uncle, as the eldest, he always looks after his younger siblings (especially Luke). I can tell Baela is a badass just like her mom, I am so looking forward for her to kick Aegon's r*pist ass! Rhaena is very sweet and so supportive of Luke, I cannot be attached to these babies because of their fates in the dance but it's so hard to not stan them!

Helaena Targaryen is such a sweet soul, she's being treated horribly by Aegon yet it seemed to me that she has already accepted that she would be living this shitty life forever. When Jace asked her for a dance, Helaena had so much fun. Aegon is disgusted by her for being different but Jace showed her kindness, had Alicent looked past her issues with Rhaenyra and agreed to Jace and Helaena's betrothal, it would have solved both their problems tbh. 

Viserys defending Rhaenyra until his last breath 🥺 even on his weakest moments, even if he was in pain, he really stood up for his daughter and grandkids. He tried his very best to keep his family together, the dinner scene when he attempted to unite his two families for the last time broke my heart. He just wants his family to be happy and live in peace. But then, the poor decisions he made in the past has finally bit him. If he was so eager to secure Rhaenyra's claim to the throne then:

He shouldn't have remarried even if he was being pressured to do so. Remarrying could mean higher chances of having a male heir (and poof! Aegon the dumbshit). 

He should have chosen Daemon as his hand. His brother would protect Rhaenyra at all costs.  

He should have agreed to marry Daemon and Rhaenyra in the first place. While marrying the princess of to Laenor Velaryon was a wise decision to strengthen their alliance with the Velaryons, I do not think Laenor would do well in court politics (in previous episodes, he was often seen gallivanting with his lover instead of being with Rhaenyra and his life is at the sea). He may be a warrior, and an ideal match but he was no politician. His brother was a skilled warrior, a dragonrider, and knows how politics work and even if Daemon was already married to Rhea Royce of the Vale, what of it? Aegon had two wives and Maegor had six. I don't think Rhea would even care whether Daemon takes another wife or not. 

He never should have trusted Otto Hightower.

He should have done what Jaehaerys I did, if you have read Fire and Blood then you'll know what the young king did when people were outraged with his marriage with his sister-wife Alyssane, when he sent forth seven people to spread good words about the queen. He could have taken this idea as an example on how he could help Rhaenyra gain support not just from other houses but the commonfolk as well. 

All in all, I don't think Viserys was a terrible person. He just made some terrible decisions.

Fun fact: Prior to his death, King Viserys was able to spend time with Aegon and Helaena's children (Jaehaerys, Jaehaera, and Maelor). His grace gave Maelor a pearl ring to play with and told the twins about the tale of Jaehaerys I who went to the North with his dragon and fought the wildlings, giants and wards. He then sent them away so he could take a nap (he felt weary and tightness on his chest), he never woke up.

[Special Shoutout]

This is Paddy Considine's final appearance in the show! 😭😭 I am so going to miss him but I cannot thank him enough for playing the character of Viserys I Targaryen so well. This episode was his best performance ever! 

[Meh]

I would describe Aemond's character as a Daemon wannabe, but compared to Aegon, I like this raging bitch more. 

I know people were fuming over Viserys' last convo with Alicent, I was so stressed too but even if Viserys had told Alicent about Aegon the Conqueror's dream, I don't think it would be enough for the Hightowers to accept Rhaenyra as heir to the iron throne. Since Aegon the dumbshit was a male and blood of the dragon too, they'd still think that the prince that was promised could also possibly come from his line (since Viserys doesn't have any solid proof that the prophecy was about Nyra). So either way, Rhaenyra's claim to the throne will always be questioned and frowned upon by many simply because she was a woman. Sad. 

I'd like to think that Rhaenyra and Alicent was so ready to put aside their strife during the dinner scene but nah, even if the queen showed signs that she still cares for her ex-bff, her leech of a father would corrupt her mind and make her hate her stepdaughter so…I don't buy this shit. 

Fun fact: When Viserys held a feast to celebrate his somewhat recovery through maester Gerardys (Rhaenyra's maester), the princess, the queen and their children were all required to attend. There the two pretended to have agreed to settle their conflicts, the kiddos greeted one another and broke bread together at the table which pleased the king (Source: Fire & Blood by George RR Martin).

Lady Mysaria is back in the game, and I'd say she's one of the characters who shouldn't be ignored. She's like the Melissandre in this timeline. 

Btw, I've also seen some memes about Viserys saying he loves all his children but he favors Rhaenyra all the time. Well, it's because the king had more time to bond with her unlike the other kids who he really didn't get to spend more time with since his health was already deteriorating while they were growing up. Second, they're not in Rhaenyra's situation. Aegon or Aemond can father as many bastards as they want and still get away with it whilst Rhaenyra is being called a whore for having sons with the man of her choice. But I do agree that in doing so, his other children felt neglected by him.

[WTF]

Alicent is a fucking hypocrite. She doesn't practice what she preaches: she judges Rhaenyra for having kids with the man she chose, she brainwashed her children into hating their nephews, didn't teach her kids the values she said she upholds, gaslighted a poor maid after being r*ped by her son, paid her to keep her mouth shut, and made her drink the moon tea to erase the evidence of Aegon's crime (sad to say, these things happen in real life too). Lastly, she was disgusted by the Targaryen's incestuous relationship yet she forced Aegon to marry his own sister Helaena and then subjected her daughter to a terrible married life. WTF.

I can't wait for Aegon to die 😏 even if the dance of the dragons was depressing af, I am consoled with the fact that ⚠️ SPOILER ALERT: two of Rhaenyra and Daemon's children will become kings (Aegon III and Viserys II) ⚠️ so Daemyra's bloodline will still prevail. 

THEY REALLY FUCKING EXCLUDED DAERON TARGARYEN! The youngest of Viserys and Alicent and the only green I stan, which means I wouldn't probably see Tessarion, and I was looking forward to that. 

[samwpmarleau]

I truly believe rhaegar was so out of it that he believed he will be OK do you think he would of if he lived and been King he would bring lyanna and thier child to court just like argon the unworthy had mistress and had many kids it didn't end well but did what he wanted to do and rhaegar's father had many mistress as well I believe that he didn't see anything bad about having a mistress. And also what relationship would he have with his daughter i feel like he would always disappoint her

Absolutely not. It’s possible he’d keep Jon (who would not be named Jon) at court, on the off chance that he decided the prophecy could work (maybe with Jon, but I think it’s more likely he’d figure Dany would work instead, who may even be named Visenya in this scenario, because she’s a girl), but he wouldn’t keep Lyanna. What reason would he have? Lyanna means nothing to the prophecy, he didn’t have feelings for her, she would loathe him, and Elia would probably stab him right there and then. I think either she’d be permitted to go back to Winterfell or he’d arrange a marriage for her to someone loyal to the crown.

Rhaegar may or may not have seen a problem with mistresses — we don’t have his thoughts on Aerys’s — but that doesn’t mean he’d take one. As I’ve said before, the text indicates that Rhaegar either wasn’t interested in sex or had an aversion to it, so why would he take a mistress? Even if Elia were fine with it (obviously she’d never be fine with Lyanna, but for argument’s sake let’s say there was a lowborn woman), I don’t see why Rhaegar would want one.

With Rhaenys ... I think their relationship would be complicated, as I’ve written about several times before. I think he genuinely loved her (and Aegon), which can be seen by the fact that a) she was named after the beloved first Rhaenys, and b) in her most terrified moments, she chose her father’s bed to hide under. I don’t think Rhaegar’s love for her would change at all. I can’t see Rhaenys forgiving what he did, but she loved him still, so she’d have to grapple between the man she remembered and the man who disrespected her mother (to say the least) and threw the realm into a civil war. I really enjoy writing/thinking about their relationship because there’s layers to it and complexity.

I wouldn’t necessarily say he would always disappoint her, though. I think Rhaegar would be a terrible king primarily because I don’t see him being very interested in ruling and he was a prophecy nut, somewhat similar to Aerys I, but he got his greatest wish, so I don’t think he’d cause any more significant political disasters.

[flysafepapi]

piggybacking because I have many thoughts about this

he definitely was considering the political advantage (perhaps almost entirely but I'll elaborate on that more in a minute) when he started everything with Rhaenyra.

It was not a coincidence that the first time we see him pay any attention to her, when he gives her that necklace in the very first episode, is at the same time that everything with Viserys and Aemma happened. It wasn't a coincidence that he just happened to run into Rhaenyra when she snuck out around the same time that Viserys was considering who to be remarried to. Almost everything he does in regards to Rhaenyra, prior to Viserys' death, was related (however tangentially) to Viserys himself.

Now, regardless of what he said in the latest episode (which is also something I could talk about at length because his shitty self aside he wouldn't have said that, not about Viserys, that was out of character) there is one thing we know for sure that Daemon has always wanted: Viserys' attention/approval and his place as Viserys' heir, two things that are often at odds.

I have no doubt that he cares about Rhaenyra, but like she said herself, she knows she can't trust him, and there's a reason why he didn't answer her when she asked him if he accepted her as Queen and ruler, because he doesn't. Imo, he's only still with her for two reasons. One, he can't stand anyone on the Greens so it's either Rhaenyra or he just fucks off somewhere and lets them deal with everything alone, and two, because he knows that Rhaenyra is who Viserys chose. It was never about Rhaenyra at all, it's about Viserys and him. He was Viserys' heir until Viserys went against tradition and named Rhaenyra, by marrying Rhaenyra he's put himself into the closest position to the throne he can get without still being heir.

That being said, I do believe he'll come back, if only because he still wants that, not because he's coming back for her. It's his ambition and his desire for approval from a man that isn't even alive anymore that'll bring him back. His entire life, he believes he's been in competition with/wanting approval from his older brother, and that hasn't stopped just because Viserys is dead.

In addition to that, realistically why would Rhaenyra even want or benefit from having him back? She said herself she can't trust him. Every single interaction we've ever seen them have is an attempt at portraying them as a good couple, but he knew people would see them in the brothel and he did it because he wanted it to get back to Viserys, the next time is after Laena's funeral when both of them are grieving so they're basically using each other at that point (it didn't show the relationship properly between them all but they were all close), he's not there for her when she has complications with visenya just like he wasn't there for laena, he's choked her, he's gone behind her back and fucked things up for her with Blood and Cheese. Literally the only scene we've gotten so far of the two of them that isn't coloured by similar things is their wedding, and even then it's still done in secret with only the kids as witnesses, literal days after they've lost both laena and laenor, and that puts Daemon in the position of being the closest to being Viserys' heir as he can be without actually being the heir, and guardian of both the heir's heir and the future Lord of Driftmark in one go, giving him more power/influence than he had before. (Yes, Rhaenyra would still be in charge of her own children but you're delusional if you don't think Daemon wouldn't also have influence). In addition to that, he arranges for both his daughters to be betrothed to them, which doubles down on that influence. He did not marry Rhaenyra for love, if that was the case he would've pushed for that secret wedding before she married Laenor.

I have never been and most likely will never be a Rhaenyra girl, but she doesn't now nor has she ever needed him.

The guy didn't even succeed in the biggest role he has in the Dance, yeah he killed Aemond but he didn't survive it either so in terms of a victory for the Blacks that doesn't even count because both sides lost with that.

If Daemon doesn’t come back to Rhaenyra by the end of season two I swear to god—

[atopvisenyashill]

Something came to me while reading your PactOfIcen'Fire meta, did someone thought to compare Jace and Sara to Rhaegar and Lyanna? I haven't read many things about Jace and Sara tbh so if they did I'm sorry for repeating it 😅

And not only that but i couldn't ignore but note that Serena and Edric..don't we have an Edric in the main books who's a bastard? I think is intentional to have named him like the Edric Storm in the main series

I'm so sorry anon, I meant to answer this like a straight month ago but tumblr glitched and didn't post it and I didn't even realize :((((

ANYWAYS. I have seen people compare them in the past wrt the pact, yes! there’s two comparisons here that are made between the two couples. there's the argument that jon himself fulfills the pact because he’s the son of a targaryen prince (rhaegar/jacaerys) and a stark daughter (lyanna/sara), and I’ve seen people refer to jace/sara as a proto rhael/ya. then there's the other comparison, where it's pointed out the pact is about a targaryen fostering at winterfell, not just wedding a stark. if you search “rhaegar pact” or "jacaerys lyanna" (search, not a specific tag, fyi) you’ll get all sorts of fun thoughts, but some of my faves are stumpy and starkcontrasts.

I do think there's a lot of parallels and anti parallels between the two couples, and I think those parallels are mmeant to catch our attention while the anti parallels are meant to make us think a little deeper about the context surrounding both couples. I'm bulletting this because it helps me organize my thoughts more clearly.

Similarities between Jacaerys/Sara and Rhaegar/Lyanna:

both couples expect to have a daughter - he daughter of Jacaerys and Sara was supposed to marry Edric Stark in order to tie the houses together, and Rhaegar expected Lyanna to have a daughter not a son (Visenya Snow truthers rise)

a kind of, "oh those crazy kids" vibe from both couples - Rhaegar and Jacaerys both spurning another woman (Elia/Baela) for a Stark maiden and eloping with her

Rhaegar and Jacaerys have minimal input in the wars they are involved in- Jacaerys because he dies early on and Rhaegar because he spends most of the war holed up at the Tower of Joy

Lyanna and Jacaerys are around the same age when their lives get upended - both are only 16 when they die. Very notable to me that Jon Snow is also only 16 when he "dies" in ADWD

Both Baela and Elia are quite beloved by their Houses. You could write pages of meta about Elia's effect on the plot and meanwhile Baela is her father's favorite, one of the last dragon riders, one of the only dragon riders to hit the ground with her dragon and live to tell the story (even if Aegon hadn't been murdered, it seems likely his injuries would have eventually killed him. man is fucked up by his burns and legs, whereas Baela recovers comparitively quickly), marries the heir to House Velaryon, and remains a staple at her half brothers courts for a very long time. AND both women experience infidelity in their marriages - not just the Jacaerys/Sara thing, but Alyn's affairs!

Mysteries surrounding the endings of these relationships - there's the obvious r+l=j thing and the fact that no one knows what the hell Rhaegar was up to during most of the war, but there's also the mystery surrounding Vermax laying a clutch of dragon eggs in the crypts of Winterfell and the baby metaphor here that Jacaerys stays long enough to leave a "child" with Sara just as Rhaegar stays long enough to leave a child with Lyanna.

Differences between Jacaerys/Sara and Rhaegar/Lyanna

the JS daughter is meant to solidify an alliance between the Targaryens/Iron Throne and the Starks/North, while Rhaegar is not interested in making an alliance, he is interested in his prophecy and his third head of the dragon

I think it's very relevant here that Jon is the same age as his mother and Jacaerys in ADWD - this is, imo, the key here that Jon does not fulfill the pact with his birth, but will be involved in the pact himself

Jacaerys and Baela are not actually married when he elopes with Sara Snow, while Rhaegar is not just married but has children with Elia

Mysterious surrounding the ending of the relationships - this goes in differences too because there is in fact a difference between an egg and a literal baby, lmao. This seems to me a pretty clear r+l=j hint, that jacaerys/vermax leaves a ~secret dragon~ with the starks, and jon is a secret dragon that Ned brings to Winterfell

What the hell does all of this mean? Well, I mean, your guess is as good as mine anon, lmao, but EYE think JS is meant to be another r+l=j hint, possibly a hint about the ultimate fate of dany's three dragons (don't ask me what, i have no idea), and an indicator for what jon's ultimate fate is - not as another Jacaerys/Rhaegar parallel but instead serving as the stand in for Jacaerys and Sara's daughter, who fosters at Winterfell and marries the Stark Heir.

Now to the second part!! Edric is a fairly common name but I have always wondered about comparisons between Edric’s so you’re not alone there!! I had originally wondered if Edric Storm and Edric Dayne had perhaps been meant to interact at some point and have larger roles, bc both touch on legitimacy issues (little Ned Dayne repeats the Wylla lie to Arya) and they both feel kinda set up to have had bigger story lines and are relatively isolated at the end of asos the way the starks are (to let them age). There’s actually lots of theories about little Ned Dayne specifically and his relationship with Arya, Ashara, and how he’s connected to the Tower of Joy storyline, and his connection to all that, plus his name connection to Edric Storm AND Serena's Edrics IS a fun one. It could mean nothing predictions wise, just George writing on a pattern. I recommend this meta here for some Targaryen naming patterns and how Rhaegar fits into all the typically feminine Rhae names. I think this is something similar to that - if an Edric shows up, it means the succession is about to involve a lot of bastards and usurpation and mystery!

Here's a clip of the Stark Family Tree, for the visual learners:

The main weird thing about this part of the timeline (besides Rickon's daughters being usurped, #JusticeForSansaAndSerena) is The Edric Of It All. Rickon dies before Cregan, and instead of Winterfell passing to Sansa, it passes to the next son, Jonnel (exactly the way the Aemon, Rhaenys, and Baelon situation goes). But when Jonnel dies without issue, Winterfell skips over Edric and Serena's children, because Edric died before Jonnel, and goes straight to Barthogan, then Brandon and his son Rodwell. This despite the fact that Serena and Edric have two sons of their own: Cregard and Torrhen (and aren't those some incredibly pointed names, just like Aemon naming Rhaenys after a conqueror!). I think when Sansa died, and then Jonnel remarried, Jonnel likely considered Edric his heir. I think what happens here is that Jonnel justifies his usurption by saying that since Rickon died before Cregan, his line should just be skipped entirely and go to the back of succession, and that all the living sons of Cregan should come first. But when Edric dies, Jonnel & probably Barthogan use this justification again by saying that since Edric is dead, his whole line goes to the end, and it goes to the next son, Barthogan. Maybe they even felt a bit guilty about skipping Cregard and Torrhen but they have to stick with this justification in order to keep their own place in the succession ahead of Sansa and Serena, the same way Viserys would never straight up say "the GC was wrong" because it would put his own claim at risk, or the way Aegon III is never able to change the line to say he descends from Rhaenyra because it would piss off the greens. So you have, in a strange way, Edric being usurped by his own brothers, just as Sansa and Serena are usurped (and maybe forcibly married) by their own uncles.

What's even more fun here, in addition to all the nonsense surrounding succession, a JS couple, and an Edric is that like I said, we have Edric Storm tied to legitimacy, Edric Dayne tied to the Tower of Joy plot, and...Edric Stark's brother, Brandon, the child of Lynara Stark who finally has kids who inherit, has a bastard of his own, Lonnel Snow! Just a coincidence, and George writing on a pattern? Again, yeah, maybe, probably, but there is some chatter regarding both Lonnel and Edric's possible descendants including that perhaps House Cassel is a descendants house of one of the two. idk but it's interesting!!