#<- this doesn't have to be a ship post but the dynamic involves all of this

[bg3-npc]

AND ANOTHER THING

Favoritism for Astarion aside, I think no one sees the tragedy in Wyll because he never really strays from "being good". We're never really given a moment where his actions had costs larger than himself. If he'd refused Mizora's pact, he'd obviously have the guilt of any lives lost on his shoulders. He accepted it though. If you're unshakable in your goodness there's no way you can be unhappy, clearly you're content with all your choices. WHICH IS THE POINT OF WYLL! HE DOESN'T REGRET HIS CHOICES BUT HE ISN'T HAPPY EITHER!

Astarion's whole thing is how fucking hard it is to be good, how easy it is to be a bad person. That's where Wyll comes into play! He showcases how often doing the right thing comes at a personal cost! That's the actual struggle with Wyll. In his efforts for justice he's losing himself. People aren't infinite resources, yet Wyll gives and sacrifices and takes the hits like he'll never run dry.

*rattling the bars of my cage* Don't you see it? The parallel themes of identity loss, the balance one most walk between altruism and selfishness, when does doing good at the detriment of yourself become detrimental to others as well, how can someone justify their selfishness, their sacrifices, when does someone need to tell you to stop giving, to stop taking? Hello? Do you hear me?? Is anyone there??? Look at it, LOOK AT ALL OF IT *starts gnawing at the bars*

edit: *BUSTS THROUGH THE BARS OF MY CAGE* ASTARION'S FIRST MAJOR SACRIFICE INVOLVES LOSING THE SUN. HE CHOOSES TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND LITERALLY LOSES THE LIGHT. WYLL SAYS YOU CAN ALWAYS LOOK TO ME WHEN YOU'RE IN SEARCH OF LIGHT. THE MARTYR HELPS THE SELFISH AND THE SELFISH KEEPS THE MARTYR FROM DESTROYING HIMSELF. *self-implodes*

[transhitman]

Ok I posted about this in anger a while back but I'm gonna say it more intelligently and actually tag it because I think it's something people need to hear. Something that bugs me about how people talk about the morality of the men in this game is that a lot of analysis totally glosses over Anya's motives and what she actually asks of people, and in doing so once again strips her of agency. Like. The reason Curly sucks isn't because he failed to properly punish Jimmy, it's because he ignored Anya in favor of her abuser. He didn't listen to her regarding how to move forward, he didn't give her a way to protect herself. No matter what he would have done to Jimmy, Anya is still traumatized and in danger, and that's the most important point of failure.

I think a lot of people are projecting a revenge fantasy on Anya, and while I'm not gonna argue about the validity of revenge here, for Anya specifically I think that's a major mischaracterization. She's the one who says that our worst moments don't make us monsters. And while yes, this could just be her trying to appease her abusers, she still doesn't strike me as a particularly vindictive person. She's a nurse, symbolically in a role associated with care and healing. Before the crash, she seems like a very soft-spoken and restrained person. Hell, she can't stand giving Curly his meds because she feels so bad for him. There isn't really a point in the game where she calls for violence at all. And even if punishing Jimmy or Curly is morally correct (subjective), saying that it's what anyone Should have done still glosses over Anya's wants and needs. It still centers the abuser, even in vitriol.

It's especially weird to see people judge Swansea on these grounds, because like... We don't know what his dynamic with Anya was like. We don't actually know what she said to him, if she even confided about her pregnancy or the SA at all! I honestly think Swansea's actions give more credence to the idea that Anya herself wanted a peaceful resolution. The whole "Oh, I'm holding it together" thing, him becoming more hostile after speaking with Anya... He waits until Daisuke AND ANYA are dead before trying to kill Jimmy. I think the obvious reading is that he wants Jimmy dead, but Anya asked him not to do anything crazy. Genuinely, I think Anya just wanted to be safe. She wanted out above everything. She didn't want more violence. The only violence she commits is against herself in the end, in order to escape this hell her coworkers made for her.

And like. Swansea is kind of the only one who actually did try to protect Anya in a meaningful way. I won't say that he couldn't have done more for her - all of the men on that ship failed her in some regard - but Swansea intentionally keeps the axe out of Jimmy's hands. He keeps the pod a secret, probably to give to Daisuke, but we can't say anything for sure. I joke that Swansea should have killed Jimmy from the start, but if we're being real that would have been an insane thing to do given what the characters know. But Swansea isn't the point of this post. Like. Idk I just think it's really bizarre that when people discuss Anya's assault, they still do it from the perspective of the men involved. It's weird and I don't like it. Like people have said before me: it's not enough to hate abusers, you have to love victims.

[melmedardasworld]

Honestly, Mel is NOT a mirror to Viktor. The fact that ppl (shippers) take that line talking about HER powers and story arc and in a literal sense apply it to Jayvik is insane. I've just seen so many dishonest discussions about Mel's storyline being more than being tied to a man (absolutely true), but then turning around to validate HER peculiar story and character development for a ship. If you really valued her and cared for her, you wouldn't say this, and it's lowkey gross. It gives the same vibe as those animators saying Jayce had to sleep with Mel to know it was Viktor all along. People can say don't use their words as truth, but a LOT of people are using that as a gotcha for shipping war bs. I see the viral posts and overarching well the writers/animators, etc. said it was, so my ship is canon, and yours isn't (just delusional all around).

Gone are the times wheter canon didn't dictate people in getting so heated and nasty and just want to be right.

I'd say Mel and Viktor are foils, and if the writers took the time to actually have Mel and Viktor interact past putting Jayce as an in-between (often only squished as the prize) character, we could get decent analyses and discussions.

Currently, the majority of their dynamic by fandom is literally based on people's saying that she looks down on Viktor cause she ignored/looked at him a certain way in one scene and micro analysed her expression or that she's a manipulative (groomer) seductress that used Jayce for her own gains when honestly everyone used each other (Jayce 'used' Mel, Mel 'used' Jayce, Viktor 'used' the both of them directly and indirectly etc.) Is that manipulation? No. I'd call it being mature enough to understand that certain ventures and goals involve give and take. I think MelJayVik understood that when it came to Hextech and that in itself cause more complex issues and implications once the whole Zaun vs. Piltover storyline erupted.

We could've actually had intellectual scenes between where we touch uppn the fact that Mel is part of an oppressive system as a Councillor (and that whole system that was set in place waaaay before she came to Piltover as an exile and ended up where she is) and that her ideas for Piltover, didn't include Zaun, where Viktor is from and on the opposite end had to work his way up and only ended up as an assistant until he and Jayce became lab partners.

Instead, we get dumbed down discussions and views that have shipping at its basis and fandom, concluding that their interpretation is canon when it's quite not. It doesn't help when the writers have fallen into that same cycle in S2. Now they come out in interviews to put their perspective out when I'm like, why didn't you put it in the show then if that was your intention or how it should've been interpreted?

It's bad writing and storytelling.

It really makes me wonder if the writers cut that happened between S1 and S2 was really the reason behind the ish we got in the final Arcs.

[helluverse-rewrites]

Rewriting the Sins

Special thanks to @helluvablenda for probably unintentionally and lowkey accidentally giving me a super sick idea :)

Gonna cover this first before going into each individual sin. I'm not gonna be having their sins be their only personality trait. I want their to be nuance and interesting characters, but at first glance it appears that way, and that's pretty much how everyone sees them. Asmodeus being called the lust/horny guy by hell, Belphegor being known as the lazy one, etc. etc.

But they are so much more than their sins but hell doesn't realize that and borderline refuses to acknowledge it. So they all kinda knew that no matter how hard they tried, it's not gonna change anything. So they ended up making their respective sins their only personality trait

Anyways let's talk about Asmodeus guys

Asmodeus

Doing these in order of appearance btw

One of the only characters I would actually smash. I hate what they did to Asmodeus (and Fizzarolli... and their dynamic but I'm getting into that later) even though I'm not sure if I'm gonna fix him all that well

Basically the idea is that growing up (if the sins actually had childhoods) he was a real sweetheart, a real gentle giant, a guy who would never hurt a fly. He would never raise his voice and has the patience of a saint. He could be talking to the Vegan Teacher and never lose his temper. Mostly because he's a people pleaser. Yes, he knows he should toughen up and gain a backbone, but it just... It feels so wrong!!!

Enter Fizzarolli, I will eventually make a post about Fizzmodeus as well as the rest of the ships, but the two don't exactly get along at first, but eventually they start to get along. And the imp taught Asmodeus how to speak up for himself :) and even though Asmodeus is still a sweetheart, he is a bit of an asshole sometimes (Fizzy's influence)

I have more things I wanna say, but I'm waiting to talk about Fizzmodeus (and Fizz) So I'm not quite done with him, just for now

Till we meet again Ozzie >:)

Beelzebub

Ah yes, the creator of Hellhounds herself (I think. Whenever someone brings up Bee and the Hellhounds I always get so confused. So if you don't like when I talk about them in this section... uh, sorry)

When Bee created the Hellhounds, the initial idea was that so hell could just have more inhabitants. More people = more partying! It's literally the most flawless plan

... Until during a meeting with the sins, Lucifer brought an idea that shook Bee to her core. How about the Hellhounds work under the upper class? And have adoption homes? Bee never really liked Lucifer all that much, he's petty, never admits when he's wrong, and is super annoying. What shocks Bee even more is that most of the sins agreed (except for Ozzie) and Bee is about to exclaim that she's the one who created Hellhounds! Shouldn't she get a say in all of this? That is until she catches Lucifer's eye. Sure, he's annoying and really fucking short, but she saw how he gets when things don't go his way

He's giving her a look that goes "Don't even think about speaking unless you want to die tonight."

So Bee just had to sit there and accept it. The fact that the very things she created were being turned into fucking slaves and abused under her rule... it's just awful. And relationships with the Hellhounds weren't the same after that. Some downright hated her and would treat her the way Stolas was treated in Mastermind basically. They wouldn't listen when Bee tried to explain to them that it was out of her control, and she honestly doesn't blame her. Some do understand but they do end up keeping her distance from now on

So to make up for it she tries to host as many parties as possible for the Hellhounds, and when Lucifer isn't involved she does try to speak up against this injustice which raises the question "Where were you when we needed you?" And she hasn't gotten over this guilt since the day it happened

I'm sorry that might've not been the best explanation for Hellhounds and such but I did want to make Bee likeable and keep in the whole thing with Hellhounds so I just thought about an instance where maybe it was out of her control. One thing's for certain, she constantly beats herself up for not being able to stand up against Lucifer

Now personality wise, relatively the same. Still blunt and shoves cotton candy down people's throats. I just mostly wanted to cover the main issue I see a lot of people have with Bee and rightly so

Mammon

Mammon is honestly kind of the same. Still manipulative and abusive. A greedy little guy

But I will be taking out the insensitive fat jokes directed at him. See, for Mammon, he likes to act stupid, like he doesn't know what he's doing to lure others into a false sense of security

One trait I want to give Mammon though is that he's a sucker for kids. He's great with them. He loved babysitting baby Charlie and always got up in little shenanigans with her. He's all for manipulating and hurting adults, but if he were to do that with a kid would be crossing the line in his eyes

Leviathan

Okay so Leviathan and Belphegor are going to be a bit difficult because there's almost no information about them in regards to the helluverse but I'm going to try my best

I want the heads to be at each other's throats, like constantly. Since Levi's the sin of envy, the heads are extremely envious of each other, always bickering and shit. Only once every thousand years will you see them get along

But when they do get along? They will bully you endlessly. They bring out the worst of each other

The human head in my mind is more extroverted and loves talking while the dragon head is introverted and hates having to talk to people

Eh it's not much but at least it's something

Belphegor

(Ignore Bee and Ozzie)

Okay I'm gonna be real, I have no idea what I want to do with her. At least with Leviathan I had somewhat of an idea. But with Belphegor I got nothing

I did see this really cool theory with her and the sloth ring so I might do something with that

Idk pls share your ideas with me if you have any. Who knows? Maybe Belphegor might be important in the future

Oh wait she's a woman nevermind-

Satan

Ah yes. Satan. Now I don't really have much to change either (wow. What an interesting post I'm making/sar)

I do like the thought of him and Yogirt being boyfriends though. I think that's fun and silly :3

Even though Satan does have a temper and is very dramatic at times. There is one thing that he loves more than anything: the sins

Okay well technically that's several things but he sees them all as little brothers/sisters and would destroy all of the rings of hell if it would make them happy

He loves them all. Except for one...

Lucifer

Goddam his smug face pisses me off so much how do people find him attractive???

Anyways. He's a bad guy now. An antagonist :)

He was very absent in Charlie's life and would just get one of the other sins to babysit her. Which... they love her, but it does get a bit frustrating when he drops them off on their doorstep with no prior warning. Especially when they have other business to attend to

He is extremely condescending and views everyone as beneath him. He's clearly better than these good for nothing sinners! His condescending nature is something Charlie unfortunately picked up, which is why she ends up treating others like children (she isn't even aware of this fact)

He just thinks people in hell don't deserve mercy. Or anything good, really. He often talks down to Charlie and not so subtly dunks on her dream at any chance he gets. He finds it so funny how people can't stand up for him because they know he's more powerful than he looks

He never admits when he's wrong and immediately kills anyone who tries to call him out

[cjlouwho]

I 100% agree with you that that was lazy writing. What was the point of deliberately picking someone the audience (and the 118) were familiar with to be Buck's LI when they could have picked some random. What was the point in delving into Tommy's history and his feelings, what was the point of showing him head over heels for Buck in the last ep, of getting a gift for their 6 month anniversary only to say "oh well, I figured we wouldn't last, so I'm gonna get out now before you break my heart". Why let him get that involved if Tommy's ideology was to never allow himself to move forward in the relationship because ultimately he thought it wouldn't last? It's whiplash for the audience after you saw how INVESTED Tommy was in the last ep! And how exactly is this Buck getting off the hamster wheel? This relationship has ended pretty much exactly like all his others - he gets invested, they leave! They had so much potential as a couple - seeing what it's like for two fire-fighters to date knowing they're both in risky jobs, maybe Buck having to meet/deal with Tommy's homophobic father, getting to explore a "new" character's back story instead of rehashing the same story lines from the mains as well as seeing more of how Buck deals with being in a same sex relationship. All wasted.

And since they referenced Glee, if the plan is for it to echo the Kurt/Blaine relationship in that show where they broke up so they could "explore" before getting back together, by doing so they ruined that relationship so much that by the end it wasn't satisfying that they WERE endgame - they weren't the couple we fell in love with. (And also, way to reinforce the negative stereotype of "you can't ever be long term with your first". I should let my sister, my cousin and my aunt know even though they've all been married for years to their husbands - all their first.) Even if they do decide to bring Tommy back down the line, would it even be the same relationship we fell in love with? Would we even trust the writers to stick with it and treat it well? Or if they did a final episode reunion so Buck doesn't end the series alone, how is that satisfying for the audience?

I have been watching 911 since it started, and I have always been part of the general audience up until S7 where I joined the fandom because I thought Buck/Tommy were adorable. It's the first time in years I've become invested in a couple on a show. It's the first time in years that I've dipped my toes back into a fandom. Like you, this ship inspired me to write fic again. I have a bunch of wip's waiting to be posted on ao3 and I honestly don't know if I'll finish them now. And if they have broken them up for Buddie to get together I think I'll stop watching. And not just because I never saw them as a romantic couple (I only ever saw a deep friendship) but because logistically I don't see it working. Besides the fact that I think that while they work as friends, they probably wouldn't gel as a couple, two people on the same team in a relationship? That will screw up the 118 dynamic, especially as this show looooves relationship drama. If they get in a fight, or worse, break up, then what? How would that work within the 118, unless someone transfers out, but then it's bye bye the 118 we love. And not to mention, in the only 4 months I have been in this fandom I have seen some VILE crap from the buddies, and from what I understand it they've been like that for years. And the show runners know about it, so if they go with Buddie, congratulations, you've rewarded toxic behaviour and given them a license to be worse (look at them already, going in the bucktommy tags and gloating).

I told myself after Glee ended and they royally screwed everything up that I wouldn't watch another Ryan Murphy show because he has a history of doing that sort of thing. When 911 came along I was cautious, but it looked like it would be different - more grown up if you will, especially since Ryan Murphy hasn't really been involved since season 1. I should have just gone with my gut. I just hope that, knowing these last two eps were filmed weeks before they aired, the showrunners see how popular they were and realise crap, we've made a BIG mistake. (Everyone should flood instagram and especially Facebook, whoch is more GA than most social media platforms, with RESPECTFUL comments about how devastated they are, and who knows, it might make them consider bringing Tommy back sometime in 8b - I believe they're still writing the back half of the season.)

Side note, I feel really sorry for Lou. Yeah he's going back to SWAT, and I love him in that (even though his character can be a dick sometimes) but he's said in interviews how he's tired of always being cast as "the muscle" due to his size and he seemed genuinely happy to get this role, which was exactly what he was looking for - the sweet, caring, romantic love interest role where he could show some depth, and they screwed him over (sounds like he even thought Buck and Tommy were doing well and wasn't expecting the break up until the end).

(Apologies for the long rant. But what you've been saying really resonated with me and I needed to share your sentiments.)

.

[yarrayora]

Idk how to explain properly, but I’m a really big fan of the dynamic you portray between Marcille and Falin. I’ve always loved . idk how to say.. divorce? trouble-in-paradise? arcs/portrayals that look at problems in otp, and yours is super interesting. Sorry if this is weird just wanted to say :)

not weird at all! im flattered, thanks!

i wasnt really into farcille at first, mostly i was just impressed an f/f ship managed to be the fandom's no1, basically proving that when two female characters in a mostly male dominated cast are allowed to bond with each others and be their own characters people will latch on to them

mostly though aro touden siblings is still my no1 and even back then i didnt care about shipping because any type of romantic relationship in dunmeshi is less interesting than the potential of political intrigue the worldbuilding set up (yes, even chilchuck's failing marriage is less interesting to me than how living in the dungeon was safer for the orcs than being neighbors to human civilization) (shocking, i know)

but it all changed when i saw the daydream hour about marcille thinking falin looks cute in feminine clothing while falin herself is obviously uncomfortable with it

i can't sleep. i have to think about this. i have to think about how it's their first love and their first relationship and one is going in blind while the other set up her expectations based on a harlequin romance novel. they are NOT in the same wavelength at all and neither of them are particularly good at communicating their intention, with falin who grew up a convenient kid because she thought it was the least she could do for her family and marcille who frankly speaking was used to being treated as someone superior back at the magic school

thank god kabru exists because who else is going to give them a real advice for their very real relationship? chilchuck will be like "okay just break up" while not seeing the mirror to his own relationship with his runaway wife. senshi, wise as he is, is never in a romantic relationship. laios would be like :((( you guys are fighting? and gets stressed out on his own which makes it even more stressful to the girls. namari is like. "i, uh, please talk to kabru."

anyway theres also the bonus comic about falin inviting marcille to watch daltian clan's opera adaptation and while there is something to say about marcille thinking the humans playing elves doesn't fit her aesthetic (and the difference of societal expectations of dressing up as a different race in dunmeshi universe compared to in ours) all i can think of is that in modern day au where daltian clan has a movie adaptation marcille has a tumblr blog where she posts Hate on the daltian clan movie tag and calling it criticism which it is but also not the place, girl, go to rotten tomatoes for that

falin also has a tumblr and she and marcille had no idea the other is a tumblr user. falin made a post like "just watched daltian clan with my gf i get why shes really obsessed with it now" and marcille, against her better judgement replies to the post like "really sorry that you were misled by your girlfriend like that, you should read the novels instead, it's way better."

laios who sees falin looking shocked at her phone asks whats up and then after receiving the answer says "wow sounds like a real jerk! just block them"

anyway thats my modern day farcille when there's no high fantasy problems involved

[child-of-helios]

hello. I've a rather stupid question. I've only read the books once, as a kid, and I don't understand why people hate calpyso x leo. whys it so bad? why does everyone seems to hate it on here?

xxx,

eurydice

First of all, this is my first ever ask, I've made it mother :D Secondly, I'd gladly explain! Though please note that it really has been a good while since I've read the books too, so my memory is kinda foggy :] Warnings for: Slight mentions (but not too much) of rape, pedophilia and mental illness (oh boy this is a tough one)

So, I have made a post abt this before, but it was written in a fit of rage so not my proudest moment (but my most popular post, oops). Anyways, I feel that the hate towards Calypso x Leo is because of a few reasons. 1. It simply didn't get enough development to feel worth it imo. Similar to Jason x Piper, I felt like there wasn't enough there to warrant a canon ship. There is also the fact that personally, I thought that their dynamic was more of a familial or that of siblings, which made me uncomfortable. I would've much rather have them be friends. 2. The uncomfortable age gap. It feels very weird because while yes, Calypso was depicted as a teenager, she is thousands upon thousands of years old. The fact that she fell in love with a literal child is incredibly weird. It was weird enough with Percy, but at least they didn't end up dating. With Leo though, she did end up dating him and the age gap feels very odd. Its even weirder knowing she had a relationship with Odysseus, who by that point was a pretty old dude so she was probably very mature and an adult (though she doesn't act like it). 3. Calypso is kinda a rapist. In the Odyssey myth, she forces Odysseus (a married man) to sleep with her. I'm sorry, but I can't support any relationship involving a rapist unless its rapist x prison cell. It makes me uncomfortable because she could very well take advantage of Leo, a mentally ill teenager with self-esteem issues. 4. Her toxic treatment of Leo. Calypso was very pissed when Leo arrived on her island, rightfully so after what she had gone through, but even then her treatment of his was outright cruel, especially compared to that of Percy and Odysseus. She made him sleep outside, exposing him to the elements after he got flung through the air and ended up on her island, which must've caused some damage. Then after they started dating, I still felt uncomfortable reading about the two, because their dynamic just didn't work, and I don't recall her apologizing to him for her treatment of him. 5. Leo's arc was thrown away. I think the worst of all, is how this impacted Leo's character. He should've had an arc where he learnt to love himself, but because of Calypso he didn't. I think the moral was supposed to be: 'even if you're mentally ill or have problems, you still deserve love!' but it came over more as: 'ignore your issues and get all your love from someone else.' Isn't it more important for kids to learn about self-love? And as an extra: what could've been. I think that Leo shouldn't have gone back for Calypso, that that ship shouldn't have happened. I prefer him going back to Echo and them learning about self-love together as buddies (and maybe evolving into more than that). Echo was stuck in an abusive relationship with the Narcissist, so I think it would a good arc for them both. I also think that if you really wanted a romance, Jason x Leo would've been much better. We know that Rick can write good gay romances, we know that Piper turns out to be a lesbian, so why not make Jason and Leo gay? I think it would add much more to the tragedy of Jason's death, but that's for another post (and this one is getting too long already oops). In conclusion, I think Caleo is bad for many reasons, but especially because it didn't have enough time to develop and the dynamic was simply too creepy for me to get invested in. Sorry for the super long post- Have a lovely day :D

[sleepymccoy]

Okay so something happened in the trekdom (is that a term anyone has ever used)

I think spirk got canonised?? Or something?? And I assume that as my certified Trekkie Mutual you feel some kinda way about this. you’re a Spones shipper but still how we doing?

I'm sure someone's used trekdom! It makes sense as a word regardless

I appreciate the Trekkie certification lol

Yeah dude, look. Most of the fandom is big into spirk so like people enjoying that romance is par for the course! I got nothing against spirk, it's just a bit of a boring dynamic so I don't really spend time on it. Too healthy for my tastes. Spones is way more juicy, it's got the tension and the sort of different world views that you see in good omens, so it's fun!

To be clear tho, spirk is as canon as it's ever been. Strong subtext, but in the way that a homophobe could watch it and say well they're just good friends. Nothing has changed in that sense, it's just another bit of footage doing more of the same. It's less gay than a lot of the original series, but it's new and shiny so on a surface level i get the excitement

Shatner, who plays Kirk, has done this as a non canon short film. It's apparently considered as canon as the novels? Which is like, not much. Most people don't engage. I haven't really looked into that, im not gonna watch it cos it kind of pisses me off

The thing that really fucks my goat about it is that the guy who plays Spock died a while ago, and didn't get along with the guy who plays Kirk. But the guy who plays Kirk has funded and produced and managed this whole thing to be about his character and his importance, regardless of the wishes of the original Spock actor. Including literally doing someone up in prosthetics to look more like Nimoy. Not just Spock generally, but specifically Nimoy's Spock. Nimoy was involved in star trek films in his late life, and he didn't choose to do this when he was alive. Only after his death has Shatner forced this to happen

That's what's leaving a really bad taste in my mouth. And I feel like people are either not accepting Nimoy's death and are happy to see him puppeted by someone he disliked, which makes me pity them. I work in aged care so I know I'm more comfortable with death than the average, but like. This is a bit fucking dark, no? It's maudlin, let him rest in peace for fucks sake.

That, or they don't mind the manipulation of his image if it tickles their ship, which makes me dislike them. And I don't think I'll really get over that any time soon, it's so disrespectful. And those are both negative feelings, so I'm kind of generally not pleased about my dash rn

I'm trying to take an angle of being about McCoy cos he doesn't feature in the short and that feels wrong. Spock-centric stuff is feeling a little tainted right now, but I'm sure that'll pass. Fanart is different to this kind of image stealing, but it's still weird for me rn. And as much as I love Kirk, I can't remove him from Shatner and his megalomania right now. I hope that'll pass, but I don't think Shatner's gonna stop here so. Hm.

Besides I like McCoy and he's not complicated by all this so I'm just continuing to play in my little sandbox

It's a weird time for trekdom. There's a bit of a rift, and not down shipping lines. I'm seeing a lot of posts working through their complicated feeling around the disrespect inherent in stealing Nimoy's face for Shatner. And I'm seeing other people celebrate the disrespect cos their ship held hands and that makes it worth it.

I'm hoping people overwhelmingly calm down a bit in a week, get a bit embarassed about how pleased they were over something so gross, and it just sort of goes away. Then we can all go back to having a go at Shatner for his constant sexism and homophobia

At least it's not fucking AI tho!

[fizzingwizard]

I haven't watched season 4 yet, but the internet being the internet, I've ehhmmm seen some stuff.

There's one thing in a few posts I've come across that bothers me a little, so I just want to put this out there, that the fact that Tove Jansson was queer doesn't mean not making snufmin canon is a betrayal.

There is queerness present throughout the Moomin books and comics, and if Tove had lived in a different, freer time, it would probably be more, and more explicit.

But if Tove were alive today and we could ask her, "What do you think of snufmin?" it's not guaranteed at all that she would approve. It's not even guaranteed that she'd approve of fans even supporting the ship.

When I read stories about how Tove was involved in her business, she comes across to me as pretty particular about her vision. I think she'd have no problem saying point blank whether something was or was not part of that vision. She might say something like, "A conventional relationship between Moomintroll and Snufkin would never work," or, "Their dynamic in the novels is about the joy and pain of longing, which are greater than having - letting them be together would undermine that."

The first part is a matter of opinion - but the opinion of the author naturally holds more weight than the opinion of fans. The second is just how it is. We love Moomintroll and Snufkin's friendship because of its emotional weight, after all. If they ever stopped pining, would they still be Moomintroll and Snufkin?

In sum, I love snufmin to death. But I just don't like putting words into Tove's mouth. A queer author has pride in her writing as much as any straight author and it shouldn't be overshadowed by her sexuality, even when it's well-intentioned. She never said "snufmin yay" - she also never said "snufmin nay." And we can't say it for her.

[do-you-ship-it-polls]

Following this blog is making me realize I really don't think I get what makes shipping appealing to most people.

Like, whats all this about character dynamics being more important than gender? How do you get invested in and want to see a relationship if your not attracted to at least one of the characters? Are there really straight dudes and lesbians out there reading / watching yaoi & straight girls and gay dudes out there reading / watching yuri?

Also not sure why people get invested in ships between characters that basically never interact or both have incompitable orientations or especially one where both have a mutual hatred of each other in canon.

Like, unless it has the potential to appeal to a very specific kink or fetish I have, I think almost all the ships I've submitted here involve at least one character that canonically has a one-sided crush or attraction to the other.

Is this the reason people think im a pedo for shipping child characters with eachother :(

If you need to find at least one of the characters attractive, it probably means you're shipping in a self-insert way, or like... to wank to them or something. I think most people just like exploring character dynamics in writing, their imagination or art.

That's also why it's so much fun to ship enemies together. There's so much more to explore when you think about the path they would need to go on in order to date, rather than a couple that are already attracted to eachother. At least in my opinion. (And enemies tend to follow the same patterns that people with crushes do, since they're obsessed with the other person). Light and L want eachother dead or in prison and they are probably the most popular death note ship because of it. Those two think about eachother 24/7.

And for characters that don't interact in canon, it's fun to imagine "what could have been" or what could happen post-canon, pre-canon etc. And sometimes it's just for fun. Shipping in general is just for fun and doesn't have to be taken seriously.

And if we're going into my personal experience - i'm mostly attracted to men but I think yuri is fun to read/watch. I also like gay romance, and sometimes straight romance. Romance is romance. yknow. It helps to imagine that heterosexuality isn't the default for everyone. A lot of writers miss out on good pairings because they make their characters strictly hetero. (just a personal opinion, writers choices should be respected, etc etc)

It just sounds like you're shipping with your hand down your pants.

(Also if anyone wants to respond to this, please write a comment or a reblog instead of sending me an ask!)

[barblaz-arts]

What do you think of the Alastor x Lucifer Ship?

I'm not like a full on stan because

1) I quite like Lucilith, even if it's more because of the concept. The beauty in an angel and human loving each other after losing each of their "paradise" in Hell of all places is romantic af. The many parallels they have with Chaggie leaves for lots of speculation for interesting events that could unfold. Seeing more of Chaggie's romance could be the key to Lucifer and Lilith getting back together, or if not then healing as individuals after falling out of love for the person that used to make hell home.

2) I get that an ace character doesn't necessarily mean they can't do romance, but Alastor just personally doesn't strike me as someone I could ship with anyone. At best I'd ship him with Rosie, but even then they're more like besties to me.

3) I don't usually like the enemies to lovers trope if it's just for the sake of shipping characters that hate each other in canon. If there isn't any hint of them even respecting each other, i dont really see much potential for romance(yet!)

I don't hate it as much as, like, Charl*stor tho. At the very least there isn't any of that icky feeling I get at the thought of it. Charlie's just too much of a sweetheart for Alastor and their interactions canonically involve Alastor taking advantage of Charlie in some way. Lucifer is basically a jaded version of Charlie tho, and that would leave for a more interesting dynamic that wouldn't make me feel uncomfortable.

Honestly I don't hate the ship at all. There's a few posts i like. Especially the hilarious ones. Also kinda funny how the two most popular ships that include an ace character both has him being a Morningstar homewrecker 💀

[galstelperion]

hey, alma. i have been following you for a while and i like many of your takes, you always seem level-headed in this fandom, but i think you missed this time around and that post wasn't it. i'm not writing you this to make you feel bad! please, believe me, my intent is not to bring you down or anything of this sort. but the user you were talking about is getting witch hunted by celeb0rn fans, and she made that post because she has been harassed by haladriel-antis and celeb0rn fans for months and months, simply for her interpretations of the show. she never attacked anyone personally, she never rebloged anyone's takes to dismiss them. she just expressed her dislike of celeb0rn fans' own witch hunts and their own insistence that they get galadriel the right way. so it was quite disappointing to see haladriel shipper such as yourself add fuel to the fire that is eating up our fandom right now. turning on each other for celeb0rn is a bit of a waste, isn't it? and we know that the majority of celeb0rn stans aren't genuinely his stans, they are just antis.

i think the fandom is getting more and more toxic, not sure what it is about. im not writing you this so that you answer to this ask, i know you probably weren't coming from a bad place, but i just think this time your post had consequences that you did not intend to happen.

Hello anon, since you seem to be at least cordial, I will respond to this ask and it will be the last time I address this situation:

"we know that the majority of celeb0rn stans aren't genuinely his stans, they are just antis."

This is the root of the problem here. I am saying this in the kindest way possible. Yes, you are allowed to dislike a character. You are even allowed to bash said character in your own spaces. A line is crossed when you make untrue statements like this. The attitude that the majority of "Celeborn stans" who also happen to enjoy Haladriel are just antis is inaccurate and has made a lot of people incredibly uncomfortable. It has made me uncomfortable as someone who is friends with many multishippers who like and explore dynamics with all of these characters involved.

As I said in my original post, I do not ascribe to this all or nothing mentality to shipping or fandom in general. The idea that there is only one right way to like and consume this ship is hurtful and makes many people feel ostracized and unwelcome in this space. I say this as someone who doesn't even care for Celeborn as a character at all and have actively shit talked him around mutuals who agree with me. But I also say this as someone who has been friends with the most incredible Haladriels for 2+ years at this point, Haladriels who have written 100k+ word fanfictions, Haladriels who have dissected and analyzed lore back to front since the early 2000s, who are also interested in exploring Galadriel's dynamic with Celeborn! *gasp* Don't put me in shackles and drag me to the town square but someone who likes a character you don't isn't a crime! It doesn't make them any less of a Haladriel. It doesn't make them "antis in disguise"

This sort of mindset has been permeating the tag for many months now. I never felt inclined to really say anything about it until these broad generalizations were being made by people who I've personally never even seen before here. Like my good friend @nocaptainonthisship has said, "I've been in this fandom since its inception two years ago" isn't a dick measuring contest. It's saying I've been here. I've seen it.

I don't know a whole lot about this account that you're referring to in the ask. I don't even know anything about these people supposedly harassing them either. I don't condone that. I have refrained from @'ing them at all either here or in my original post so as to not to contribute to pile-ons if that is indeed happening. I did block them about a week ago after continuously seeing these actively hostile and confrontational takes about who can and can't be considered a real Haladriel based on their character preferences. Feel free to block me if that is the approach to fandom you want to have. It will certainly never be mine.

[b0ylik3r]

I dont wanna get myself involved in any more ZADR discourse, but I also don't want misinfo to spread around and people to get discouraged or anything like I had been for a while. So I'm going to say this: Zim in Invader Zim is most likely a child.

There are a plethora of reasons I think this, but if you don't care then scroll. I'm going to provide my reasoning under the cut.

My first reason is that from a writing standpoint, there is absolutely nothing appealing about the dynamic between Dib and Zim if Zim is an adult. What would or do you find enjoyment out of their dynamic if they are not meant to be foils of one another like the show HEAVILY implies them to be NUMEROUS TIMES? If Zim is a child, their dynamic becomes "2 children want parental approval and go against each other for it, when in reality the approval and love they seek is unattainable because the parental figures will never give them it. They would be better off being friends or allies, but instead keep fighting to be loved because they're dumb kids and don't realize that it's fruitless and dumb". If Zim is an adult, their dynamic becomes "Immature man cannot beat child". What is to be enjoyed or explored there?

My second reason is that Zim acts like a child in a multitude of different ways. His interactions with The Tallest, his general immaturity, and even how he surrounds himself. He goes to school. He has made himself robot parents to support that idea. He needs different disguises to act like an adult. Again, from a writing standpoint, if he was an adult infiltrating a school building and pretending to be a kid, that's just fucking weird. I don't think Jhonen is that type of person. I don't think the writers are that type of people.

Also on this subject is the episode Tak: The Hideous New Girl. At the point of the episode, Zim was trying to impress and "crush on" and be the boyfriend of this middle school girl. It doesn't matter if Tak was actually irken. It doesn't matter if she is the same age as him actually. It doesn't change that Zim was trying to get into a human relationship with what he thought was a middle school girl. If he is an adult, that's pretty fucking weird. Again, I don't think Jhonen is that type of person and I don't think the writers are that type of people.

The "flying ships before you were born" only proves that on Irk, he was an adult or at least the age that would permit him to fly ships. Calendars are manmade, why would irkens use the same years? Zim's age could also easily translate into human years into the late tween years. We also have to think logically about things.

Also, I sometimes feel like people are forgetting that Irk is a dystopian society. They are a hyper-militarized alien race that codes people's brains on the daily and does not wait for the children to grow up even a little before they start military training (or, at least training for military training). What morals prevent them from using child labor or child soldiers? We also have to remember that in accordance to The Trial, Zim was a smeet or older allowed into violent chemicals and resources that can kill, like it did Tallest Miyuki and Tallest Spork. That, in a way, proves that Irkens are not above dangerous child labor.

One other argument I have is that in Enter The Florpus, during the species change clip, Zim, Dib and Gaz switch species. The thing is, Dib and Gaz look the same as Zim in this clip. They don't become little smeets, they don't become tiny kids. They become Zim's age. Zim also does not become an old man in this clip. He stays the same as Dib and Gaz. Being that these are their canon human/irken translations, I don't see how someone could still defend this.

You could take all of this and say "Okay, but ZADR is still proship because they are abusive to each other so why are you so pressed". But like I said in a previous post, there is a major difference between "haha 2 people fight each other n get hurt haha" and "this adult man is grooming this child sexually". That's not funny. That isn't cartoony. That is a fully serious topic taken seriously in every single media that it is represented in. Cartoony unserious fighting has been a staple for years in animation and media. Grooming is not cartoony. That is why so many people have a problem with it. Some people don't enjoy shipping things that are seriously fucked up in the real world like that, or shipping proships.

This all started because of one singular tweet Jhonen made that you all believed. I bet if he tweeted "guys invader zim didnt actually happen and dib was hallucinating the whole time, lmao dream theory is canon", some of you would believe it.

I leave you off with this: "If it looks, sounds & acts like a kid, it's a kid, no matter if it's actually 1000 years old or not."

[ravensvirginity]

I think that the source of a lot of Raven mischaracterization in fandom is just that fundamentally she's not a very easily shippable character. I don't think it's impossible to ship her with someone and still be in character, I enjoy plenty of Raven ships personally and I've seen plenty of ship fics that are in character.

When I say she's not a very easily shippable character, what I mean is she doesn't really fit into many common ship dynamics or tropes. Of course the specifics vary from version to version, but it's pretty much universally true for all versions of Raven that she is closed off, not very trusting, scared of opening up, and very inexperienced and scared of romantic relationships. Even in versions of her where she has a love interest, this still holds true.

Shipping in fandom can get very homogenized. There are tropes that are very popular universally that bleed into every fandom. Some ships can even feel like copy pastes of each other in their fanon versions (grumpy x sunshine, hero x villain, etc). I don't think liking a popular trope is a bad thing, but I think in the case of Raven, her canon personality doesn't suit itself well to many of these tropes.

Raven is mistrusting and skittish. She's not someone who'd like big romantic gestures or dramatic love confessions. She's not confident or comfortable enough for anything casual. She'd hate anything involving violence over her (or violence, period). To date someone, she'd have to know them and trust them, and be in a headspace where she's willing to open herself up and not scared that feeling so much could release her demon side. Raven is scared of her own emotions, but that's very frequently glossed over or forgotten.

I'm personally very sick of Raven shipping posts that make her feel like a ditzy YA romance lead and not the complex character she is. I wish I could go into the Raven tag and see actual discussions about her character and posts that feel like her, not a completely different person.

This isn't an attack on any one ship, I think I've seen it in literally every ship with her at this point. I wish shipping wasn't the main focus, and there was more appreciation for individual characters as their own thing, rather than the constant push to have two characters as a merged together duo.

[bookwormbynight]

the take that lawlight and other ships involving Light and an older character are not problematic because “Light Yagami is incapable of being groomed” is doing rounds on dntwt again and holy shit it drives me insane every time i see it because

(“you” below refers to people with this take, not you)

1. what the hell is this victim-blaming logic when you’re literally talking about it as something applicable to the real world. no one is immune to being groomed.

2. to speak of the idea in-universe, I’m pretty sure that is just factually untrue. Light can definitely be groomed and has many traits that make him susceptible

3. no one is immune to being groomed. Light being manipulative, “evil”, intelligent or ““mature for his age”” (oh boy) does not prevent him from grooming in any capacity. in fact those traits combined with his arrogance make him a easy target as long as the perpetrator knows what to say

4. if you’re uncomfortable with the idea that lawlight is grooming, you can just think and say that you do not view lawlight’s dynamic as grooming. that would be reasonable, at least in comparison to fucking “light is immune to being groomed”

5. (pardon my language but) why in the fuck would you phrase it like “I’m sorry but if you can *insert a bunch of things that don’t prevent anyone from being groomed* then I’m NOT gonna believe you got groomed” like do you know how you sound right now????

6. have I mentioned that no one is immune to being groomed.

frankly, as someone who doesn’t usually prefer to view lawlight as full-on “adult grooming child” (I do think the existing age gap is a very intriguing factor but generally it is not my top preference to take it to the extreme in my own conception of it; it is very interesting to see as an alternative though, I respect it), I feel MUCH safer around everyone in this dn tumblr circle than people who say that shit. respect and salute to you all 🫡

Oh, ick!! Thank you for sharing!

Dude I am so afraid of dntwt I refuse. Of course the drawback to that is Tumblr doesn't allow the kind of images that Twitter does so I miss out on that but with the combination of Elon Musk and the nazis and whatever nutcase discourse that regularly happens over there, I'm not touching that shit with a ten foot pole even for the sake of porn 😭

Yeah no the solution to something that makes you uncomfortable is never ever to blame the victim. (Honestly, and I'm psychoanalyzing again, I think part of what makes this circle so safe is that we treat this shit with the gravity it deserves, even when we're sexualizing it. Because what we're sexualizing IS the horror. The horror is what's hot about it, but the horror reaction implies that it's something terrible and serious. It's not normal or okay or impossible.)

I'd like to explore the mention of discomfort with the topic. That shit is normal and human. Not everyone likes sexualizing horror, not everyone understands everything you need for it to feel safe, AND, and this is a wildly different but still important factor in fandom interaction, not everyone DOES think it's plausible for the universe. You can think things don't match your headcanon for how you interpreted the work! I made a post yesterday along those lines about a fanfic I was reading! The thing is, don't attack real people (if you think someone's handling a subject in fiction in a way that does real harm, like E.L. James for my example, you don't send hate mail, you tell people why it's harmful and boycott the work); be aware that canon is subjective even if you have some textual evidence to back your view up - feel free to present said evidence, but nobody has to take it to heart and you can't make them; and above all, if it's pertaining to these types of topics, DO NOT USE THE VICTIM TO CONTRADICT IT. USE THE SUPPOSED PERPETRATOR. If you don't think L is a groomer, say so, if you don't think lawlight involves grooming, go for it, but Light Yagami better not fucking be a pillar of your argument because victims are never the reason something happened to them, which means they are also never the reason something didn't happen. People astound me.

Be kind everybody ❤️

[damnfandomproblems]

5893

Lmao... We're not getting into this wank again, are we? Especially so soon after the total dumpster fire of minor-sent asks from the other problem?

["Just because there isn't sexual content in the show, doesn't mean the fandom needs to add it in there."]

Erk. Wrong. Fandom is the place for doing things that weren't in the original media. The most obvious example? Hey, those characters weren't gay or in a relationship in the show, but they could totally be a couple! They have so much in common! Let's make them gay in our art and fic.

If you can't grasp this most basic concept, you really have no authority to be dictating what is, or isn't, warranted in fandom. But let's keep going, shall we?

["I hate when I'm looking for fanfiction and I see minors being shipped with adults or even young characters doing the deed with other young characters."]

Where, pray tell, are you even looking for these fanfictions? On the tumblr app, which is 18+? In a general tumblr tag, which doesn't have a max age limit? On AO3, which also doesn't have a max age limit, and is more akin to a library which will, obviously, have all manners of content?

And you can hate whatever ships and dynamics you want, nobody's stopping you. I hate Starker with a passion. But you know what I do? I filter, and I use xkit, and I blacklist, and if that's not possible, I avoid the places it's likely to pop up. Because I accept the fact that I can change my behavior, but I can't stand at the beach in front of a massive tsunami, and hold up my hand and expect it to stop. Nobody else is at that beach except you. You're the one who didn't heed the age restrictions (or lack of) of the spaces and the general freedom of those spaces, and is now standing there, about to drown, and all the other fans are standing on higher ground tsking and shaking their heads, because it's just that stupid.

["I think fandoms for kid shows should be safe places."]

Safe space for who? For kids? There are entire fandoms for Lego, for ATLA, for MLP, and for dozens if not hundreds and thousands of other kid's properties that are populated largely by adults. Because guess what? Kids grow up. People are kids for like 1/6 of their lifespan. And you think ATLA fans will simply stop existing in fandom spaces once they hit 18 or 21? What an incredibly sad way to see things.

You want a safe space for kids, make your own space. Default fandom on the internet is inherently not a space geared towards kids! Not just because, well, it's on the internet, and we all know about rule 34 (if you don't, look it up), but because the existence of a fandom for any given property has zero obligation to only have kids in it. For the reason I just described above.

You're coming into spaces with a naive and uninformed idea of what that involves, then acting like everyone else is at fault.

Don't.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.