#//the thoughts

[nocreativityfornames]

So one of my recent posts on Solomon ended up getting a lot more attention than expected. A lot of people chimed in and shared their own thoughts on his character and actions and made very good points both in his defense and against him.

I myself got to think more about his character and went to revisit some lessons in the og game to try and understand him further and I wanted to share some of those things here.

So let's get into it:

One of the main things I want to talk about here is one of the points brought up by other players in defense of Solomon and his "this is how demons are usually treated" line. Basically that we don't know how other humans treat demons they have a pact with and that MC might really be the odd one out here.

To discuss this point, I thought it was important to go back and remember what exactly a pact is and how it's most commonly formed. And this, this is something Levi explains in the very first lesson of the game when we ask him what a pact is.

And this is what he answers:

So I think it's safe to assume that this is or was one of the most common ways of making a pact. A human wants power (the demons' strength, as Levi puts it), and they summon the demon to get it. But in exchange for that power, they have to give away their soul and be bound to that demon for the rest of their lives.

There's one thing missing though, right? Because that's not the only thing a human gets when entering a pact, as we know of course when pact is made a master x servant sort of dynamic is formed between the human and demon involved, and a power imbalance is put into place.

But...not quite? Because in this specific case, the human is giving away their SOUL, their very being, and very likely only ticket to get into heaven. And so on one side we have a human giving away their soul and simultaneously a life in paradise, and a demon giving away their freedom to serve said human for as long as they stay alive on the other.

And looking from this perspective, it doesn't seem that unfair of a deal or that much of a power imbalance. And if it does, it weighs more on the demon's power over the human, since their soul will belong to them for the rest of eternity to be used however said demon wishes (to eat, enslave, have as companion, or whatever). And of course the human has the ability all of that as well, for as long as they're alive that is.

And that? That on paper I think creates a very good dynamic. Because the human will know not to abuse their power being aware that at some point tables will turn and the position of "master" will be passed on to the demon. It's a promise: "I won't misuse my power, and in exchange, you'll do the same when I die".

But as I said, that only looks good on paper, because we don't know the consistency on which said promises are followed through. Since of course, the demon could simply ignore the human's actions and be a "cruel master" regardless.

And I'm thinking these promises were probably most often broken than not, considering how Solomon views demons and seems to bare a fair amount of resentment towards them, and how most demons still view humans as "food", "lesser beings" and "not worth connecting with".

And this here is where I bring the second method of making a pact into the table (that Levi also explains how it works once MC tells him they don't want to give away their soul):

My theory is that this second way of making a pact became popular once humans started to realize the first one wasn't working on their favor.

"I won't give you my soul, but I will give you something you want in exchange for your power."

And so pacts as we know came about, a human wants a demon's power, and in exchange, they have to offer the demon something they find worthy enough to be willing to give away their freedom to get it.

And this is exactly how MC's pact with Mammon was made. They find something Mammon desperately wants (Goldie) and offer it to him in exchange for a pact. And I guess you could see this as manipulation, considering MC and Levi pretty much pressured him into doing it at the moment (something some of you brought up to defend Solomon, "the way MC made a pact with Mammon was also bad so you gotta question their morals too").

But anyway, my point is: pacts became an exchange of something, rather than a soul. And with this in mind, I can see how a human could manipulate a demon into getting a pact with them and maybe even abuse their power over a demon as a way to retaliate over the treatment humans were getting from them.

And going back to Solomon again... we have to acknowledge that he grew up in a time where the 1° method to make a pact was most common, a time where demons walked freely through the human world doing whatever they wanted. (it's not that way anymore because the passages to get to the human world have been shut down by Diavolo, as Lucifer explains in the next screenshots).

Right after he says this Mammon brings up the fact that only Diavolo, Lucifer, and Barbatos can use that method freely nowadays and that he wishes HE could go to the human world whenever he wanted as well. To which Lucifer answers:

And although Lucifer says this decision was made because Mammon kept causing trouble in the human world, the way I saw it this line was much more him trying to drag Mammon down than actually stating a fact.

"We had some problems up in the human world that necessitated a change in our policy."

Problems, problems... demons doing unspeakable things to humans, perhaps? Something that definitely didn't fit Diavolo's vision of peace between realms once he took over the kingdom? Very likely, yes. So they shut down the main passage between the Devildom and the human world to stop or at least decrease the number of atrocities caused by demons who went there seeking bloodshed all around (there are still other ways to travel there, though they're much more complicated).

But Solomon, yes, Solomon at this point had already seen it all. At this point he had already developed hatred and distrust towards demon kind, and a want to make humans be seen as more than prey in the eyes of demons and poor little creatures that need to be protected in the eyes of angels.

So we understand his reasons. He grew up in a time (and lived through thousands and thousands of years) where demons walked freely through earth. This man witnessed all kinds of horrible things being done to humans in the hands of the demon kind, and it was during those times (or a short time after) that he met Asmo - one of the most powerful demons in the Devildom, brother of Lucifer himself - drunk out of his mind on a tavern.

Solomon immediately went starry-eyed at the realization, what he had there was a one in a million chance. An opportunity to grow even more powerful, to get closer to Lucifer and get more recognition, to be the human who can represent humanity as neither prey nor weakling, to be the first human both worlds respect and see as a force to be reckoned with.

It's a chance to bring his dream closer to reality.

So he doesn't care about the moralities of it, he really doesn't. This in front of him is a demon, and demons have done terrible things to humans over the centuries!

And so he manipulates Asmo into making a pact with him. There it is, that's how we got here.

If you think all of this excuses his actions, it's up to you. And if you think all of this doesn't excuses his actions, it's up to you as well.

[pink-psychic]

[alleesaur]

doodling a bunny vs doodling a hare

[vimbry-moved]

[foolfortune]

[grntaire]

HELLLLLL YEAH!!!!!!!

[thegreatyin]

"how can m/f ships be good-" first of all through the power of bisexuality anything is possible so write that down. second of all if we start othering ships based on gender and nothing else we're no better than the opposition. third of all you need to watch more addams family

[remanence-of-love]

[yeepof]

I understand that tall men are our POV characters, but surely being like a foot taller than everyone around them would have some occasional consequences

[mushiver]

I know what you're all definitely thinking. What if everyone from Gravity Falls was a chair. Well, I was bored enough at 3am to think about that too

Edit: part 2

[stardial]

missing someone is crazy because you’ll have dreams that r like “we went on a nice walk together :)” and you’ll wake up feeling like you’re gonna throw up

[nocreativityfornames]

Nb!Belphie is making me think about S1!Belphie and I need to get these thoughts out so here's me making a post about it

You know how after MC reveals that they're human Belphie immediately shows distrust of them and goes for an attack? How even after getting past the fact they're human, he still gets super protective over Beel when he expresses wanting to make a pact with them, almost like he's scared of his brothers getting too close to MC?

The explanation I came to for this is that after what happened to Lilith, aka her death ( not really but it's what he believed happened at the time ), Belphie must've developed an irrational fear of humans. But not in the way you'd think, he's not inherently scared of them, he's scared of what the consequences of getting close to one could be. He's scared of his loved ones getting too close to a human, because the last time that happened, he lost his sister.

And no matter how illogical that fear might be, given that they're no longer in the Celestial Realm and thus, are no longer in danger of being subjected to any punishments for associating with humans, he still fears that. Trauma at its finest, it doesn't make much sense.

So when he sees his brothers not only getting close to a human but also making pacts with them, he feels on alert and uneasy. Even more when it comes to Beel, given how close they are, and how protective he already feels over him.

And thinking about this, as I stated in the title, made me think about S1!Belphie. Because what if during S1 Belphie was still dealing with that fear? What if that was also part of the reason he didn't want the exchange program to happen?

I mean, we know he hated humans. We know he despised them and wanted them away from him and the Devildom, that he blamed them for Lilith's death ( and also himself ), and couldn't bear the thought of the program happening because it would mean demons meddling with humans in a way that wasn't the usual "want to corrupt them/have their soul" dynamic and we know that he felt betrayed by his brothers when they were supportive of the exchange because to him humans were THE ENEMY and by accepting this arrangement his brothers were disrespecting Lilith.

And so, once trapped in the attic, his plan was to kill MC and ruin the exchange program. For all reasons above.

"He also planned to end humanity." Yes...and no?

I mean, yes, the game alludes to Belphie wanting to destroy humanity more than once, these are screenshots of it:

But honestly? I don't think he ever seriously considered doing this.

Yes, he hated humans more than anything, but I don't think he ever seriously wanted to kill ALL OF THEM, no. I think that he probably only said that in the heat of the moment, being so angry at Lucifer and all.

But maybe that's naive of me, maybe he DID want to end humanity. However, even if that was the case, I'm thinking he most likely gave up on the idea not too long after because it never gets brought up again after the flashback of him lashing out at Lucifer, or the scene with Diavolo saying he was a danger to humanity before locking him up.

Because come on, even if Belphie wanted to end humanity, he would've never been able to. I mean, there's no way that after killing MC his brothers would've just let him get past them and make his way to the human world. And through the 8 layers of hell no less, since portals can only be opened with Diavolo and/or Lucifer's permission.

And even if for some miracle he could escape the brothers, that's still 8 layers of hell to WALK through and he'd still have Diavolo, Barbatos, Solomon, and Simeon trying to stop him.

So yeah, there's no way that part of his plan could've been accomplished, and spending that much time in that attic alone in his head, he must've realized that and gave up.

Going back to the topic of why exactly he wanted to kill MC and end the exchange program though...

What if beyond all that burning hatred towards humans, he was also scared? What if he feared, too, that his brothers would end up taking a liking to MC? After all, the second human exchange student was assigned to their house, they were supposed to live with them, be in their lives 24/7.

What if Belphie was scared that his brothers would get close to that human? Scared that by befriending them, his brothers would be destined to meet a terrible fate later on?

What if he was scared of his family getting hurt?

Because again, he's got that irrational fear ( it's more a theory than a fact but you get what I mean ) that associates getting close to humans with danger, pain, grief, and all sorts of terrible stuff, thanks to his then unresolved trauma with Lilith, The Great Celestial War, etc.

And so by killing MC and ending the exchange program, he not only thinks that he's teaching everyone a lesson, revenging Lilith, and honoring her memory by reminding the others of her, but he's also convinced that he's protecting his brothers.

He's convinced that MC is a threat to his family, and that he's doing good by eliminating that same threat.

[sop-soap]

Biases being broken down on both sides

[arielries]

Do you ever wish you could take the steam with you?

[vilea777]

sorry i cant hang out i forgot how to mimic human like behaviour