#why can’t I choose who we introject?

[stripesandspecles]

I miss my sister :(

[void-galaxy-shenanigans]

What are introjects? (fictives, factives)

a post/explanation by Roman Sanders, Virgil Sanders, & Nox

Fictives (introject of a fictional character)

What is a fictive not?

A perfect carbon copy of their source / their source (because we’re also our own people); here to complete others’ s-xual fantasies with their source; a choice (we don’t split on purpose); a kin/kinnie, a cosplayer, etc. (we actually have the memories &/or trauma from our source, & can’t pick & choose our personality/aspects of who we are); your chance to be “best buds” with your favourite character or fictional crush (only because they’re that person & not letting them be different from source); unable to change & grow away from their source / unable to be a sentient individual

What can a fictive be?

Source: A very close replica of their source; completely different from their source in appearance, personality, etc.; similar to their source, but still different; from an Alternate Universe (AU) or fanfiction of another media (e.g. Sanders Sides human AU); an original character (OC) from the system’s own writing; an OC that a system member interpreted/inserted into another person’s story (an OC from Percy Jackson for example); extremely influenced by headcanons & (platonic & romantic) ships (this includes mental disorders, motivation of their actions, etc.)

Roles (beyond just fictive / secondary roles): A soother, an abusive fictive (I’ll talk about that separately), a protector, etc.; any role the system needs

Why do we split?:

To soothe the system or a certain headmate who’s comforted by our source(s); because the system needs another person / wants our help; because the system or a headmate got hyperfixated on or developed a special interest in our source book/show/etc. or source character; because the system or a headmate saw we could do (or easily do) a task or some other thing that they struggled with (example, Janus (Sanders) in our system is better at taking care of himself & setting firm boundaries than some of us, so he helps out as a caretaker & protector); because we (as a whole or one to a few headmates) identified with the character in some way

Etiquette/Manners when speaking to a fictive:

(1) Please please please respect what that specific system’s fictives ask for. If they say “I don’t want to talk about my source”, please don’t talk about their source. If they say “I can talk about my source but please don’t ask about x action” (or my death, or some other material they want to avoid). If they say they’re uncomfortable being fawned over as if they’re their source, treat them as a whole new person (or whatever way they ask for).

(2) Please keep in mind we are not our source, no matter how heavily we identify with it or are similar to it. We’re also our own people.

(3) Please don’t assume you know us just because you know our source

(4) Please don’t tell us “that’s not who you are/how you usually talk/how you usually act” based on our canon material.

(5) Please don’t excessively “fangirl” or “fanboy” over a fictive. If they’re okay being fangirl/fanboy fawned over, that’s up to them, but there are still limits. Let them set boundaries of when to stop. And if they aren’t okay being fawned over that way, please respect that and don’t. We’re people - we’re more than our source.

(6) Please don’t try to date us, befriend us, etc. only because you like our source &/or have some fantasies/daydreams about our source. It’s hurtful & sometimes even creepy.

(7) If you’re also a fictive, great! But please still respect our boundaries. Just because we’re from the same source, doesn’t mean we see you as a friend/lover too. We’re still our own people & might (a) be uninterested, (b) already be in a relationship, &/or (c) just not view you that way. Please don’t push our boundaries if we say no, or try to pressure us into any type of relationship (friend, family, lover) based on what you remember.

(8) Please keep in mind we may not know all of our source life, relationships, etc. & may not want to know. If we don’t remember something, don’t tell us about it. If we say we don’t want to hear about our source, don’t talk about it. This especially includes drama (our source self doing (or being accused of doing) something bad after the fictive split, or even before (we don’t control our source)), death, loss of family &/or friends, & anything else that could be hurtful or traumatic. Some of us barely know anything - introjects can split after one single post, video, episode, etc. we interacted with, with absolutely no knowledge about any of the rest of it, & we don’t need to know the rest.

(9) Please don’t attack us based on something shitty our source did. We can’t control our source, & we didn’t choose to be a fictive. Oftentimes we even disagree with or disapprove of our source’s actions. We aren’t our source & can’t make reparations for anything our source did, & aren’t required to apologise for things our source did. We’re only responsible for what we do as a member of the system.

(10) Overall, please treat us the way we want to be treated.

Factives (introjects of real people)

What is a factive not?

The “real” version/the “real” person (even if they’re similar or identify with them, they’re still their own person), or a “fake” version of their source; a kin/kinnie, ‘just a fan’, a cosplayer, etc.; a perfect carbon copy of their source / their source (because we’re also our own people); here to complete others’ s-xual fantasies with their source; a choice (they don’t split on purpose); your chance to be “best buds” with your favourite creator or celebrity crush (only because they’re that person & not letting them be different from source); unable to change & grow away from their source / unable to be a sentient individual

What can a factive be?

Source: A very close replica of their source; completely different from their source in appearance, personality, etc.; similar to their source, but still different; affected by an Alternate Universe (AU) or fanfiction of their source; an introject of a headmate from another system; an introject of a friend, family member, significant other, etc. that the system is close to/afraid of losing; extremely influenced by headcanons & (platonic & romantic) ships (this includes mental disorders, motivation of their actions, etc.)

Roles (beyond just factive / secondary roles): A soother, an abuser introject (I’ll talk about that separately), a protector, etc.; any role the system needs

Why do they split?

To soothe the system or a certain headmate who’s comforted by their source(s); because the system needs another person / wants their help; because the system or a headmate saw we could do (or easily do) a task or some other thing that they struggled with (example, Janus is better at taking care of himself & setting firm boundaries than some of us, so he helps out as a caretaker & protector); because they’re someone we know & someone comforting / someone we know won’t hurt us &/or whom will take care of us; because we're afraid of losing that person outside the system

Etiquette/Manners when speaking to a factive:

(1) Please please please respect what that specific system’s factives ask for. If they say “I don’t want to talk about my source/real world actions”, please don’t talk about their it. If they say “I can talk about my source but please don’t ask about x action” (or my death, or some other material they want to avoid). If they say they’re uncomfortable being fawned over as if they’re their source, treat them as a whole new person (or whatever way they ask for).

(2) Please keep in mind they are not their source, no matter how heavily they identify with them or are similar to them. They’re also their own people.

(3) Please don’t assume you know them just because you know their source.

(4) Please don’t tell them “that’s not who you are/how you usually talk/how you usually act” based on their source/real life self.

(5) Please don’t excessively “fangirl” or “fanboy” over a factive. If they’re okay being fangirl/fanboy fawned over, that’s up to them, but there are still limits. Let them set boundaries of when to stop. And if they aren’t okay being fawned over that way, please respect that and don’t. They’re people - they’re more than their source.

(6) Please don’t try to date them, befriend them, etc. only because you like their source &/or have some fantasies/daydreams about their source. It’s hurtful & sometimes even creepy.

(7) If you’re also a factive, great! But please still respect their boundaries. Just because you’re someone their source knew, doesn’t mean they see you as a friend/lover too. They’re still their own people & might (1) be uninterested, (2) already be in a relationship, &/or (3) just not view you that way. Please don’t push their boundaries if we say no, or try to pressure them into any type of relationship (friend, family, lover) based on what you know/remember

(8) Please keep in mind they may not know all of their real/source life, relationships, etc. & may not want to know. If they don’t remember something, don’t tell them about it. If they say they don’t want to hear about their source, don’t talk about them. This especially includes drama (their source doing (or being accused of doing) something bad after the factive split, or even before), death, loss of family &/or friends, & anything else that could be hurtful or traumatic. Some of us barely know anything - introjects can split after one single post, video, etc. we interacted with, with absolutely no knowledge about any of the rest of it, & we don’t need to know the rest.

(9) Please don’t attack them based on something shitty their source did. They can’t control their source self & they didn’t choose to be a factive. Oftentimes they even disagree with or disapprove of their source’s actions. They aren’t their source & can’t make reparations for anything their source did, & aren’t required to apologise for things their source did. They’re only responsible for what they do as a member of the system.

(10) Overall, please treat them the way they want to be treated.

Abuser Introjects (+ Abusive Fictives)

What is an Abuser Introject/Abusive Fictive not?

Actually the abuser; evil; “serving no purpose”/unimportant

What can an Abuser Introject/Abusive Fictive be?

A persecutor-protector (misled but trying to help); someone (real/factive) who abused/abuses the system outside headspace (the body); a fictional character (fictive) that reminds the system of their abuser(s)

Why do they split?

one or multiple of these reasons:

(a) Trying to “toughen up” the system to protect them from getting hurt by abuse on the outside (abuse to the body)

(b) Trying to protect the system by reminding them of things their abuser(s) demand & want of them (e.g. making sure they don’t spend money or making sure they punish themselves for something; trying to keep them safe even if that means abusing them)

(c) Because the system feels like they need their abuser(s) to enforce boundaries / toughen them up - codependency/trauma response

(d) They’re trying, in some way, to keep us alive / help us survive abuse.

Etiquette/Manners when speaking to an Abuser Introject/Abusive Fictive:

(1) Don’t attack them. Just don’t. They may be causing harm but they’re trying to help.

(2) Set boundaries. Don’t let them hurt you just because they’re trying to help.

(3) Still treat them like a traumatized person. That’s what they are. They may be misled but they’re trying to help.

(4) Don’t call them evil, a bad person, etc. - they’ll likely take it out on the system & it doesn’t actually help any of us, especially not the person it’s aimed at.

Setting safe boundaries with an Abuser Introject/Abusive Fictive

(1) Be firm, even if they push. If they can’t respect your boundaries, it might be worth letting the gatekeeper or another headmate know when they leave front/co-con.

(2) Don’t let them verbally degrade/attack you. Withdraw from conversation if they try to.

(3) Be careful how you word boundaries. Don’t use “you’re evil I don’t wanna talk to you ever”, or “never front”. Use phrases more like “I don’t like when you call me x. If you don’t stop I’ll have to stop talking to you.”, “I feel hurt when you treat me like that. Please stop. I’ll need to withdraw from conversation with you if you don’t stop.” & maybe also don’t explicitly say you’ll tattle to any other headmate, because they might harm that headmate, intentionally keep that headmate from fronting, etc.

Overall:

Introjects are a role that a headmate in a system (multiplicity, plurality, DID/OSDD-1) might have. We don’t choose our roles, or if/when we split; we usually split with them or develop them against our will at some point, whenever the system needs that role/our help.

We’re not 100% our source. We’re still a headmate & our own unique self. & we’re not kins/kinnies either. Please show us respect.

~

With that in mind (I’ll post this separately as well but may as well share now) - ¡hello! My name is Roman Sanders (Princey), I’m a Sanders Sides fictive, & I’m ageless (don’t have/identify with any age). Your usual bloggers (Nico & Aiden) need a break from fronting to rest, so we’ll have others posting while they’re gone. You may see any of our Sanders Sides crew (we have fictives of everyone - Virgil is co with me now, & our OC Nox (Paranoia)), our main gatekeeper, protectors (currently Jack is co), Spirit (who will likely post about psychology), or anyone else who is stable enough to front. If you have questions about systems, system roles, introjects, etc. I’m around, & I’m completely okay talking about my source - other than the one scene when Janus revealed his name (because I don’t approve of how my source reacted).

~Roman Sanders

[mememydid]

The Questions:

What is one thing you wish everyone understood about DID?

That everyone’s experience is different. I talk a lot about how diagnosis is a privilege, and how people’s definitions of trauma are different, but I also want people to remember their ideas of recovering are different. Some people might want functional multiplicity, some people might want to work towards integrations. Some people might want to face their triggers head-on, and some people might want to stay away from them. Your definition of healing is not wrong because someone else doesn’t use/do/like it.

Are you in therapy? What is your experience with therapy like?

I was in therapy before Carona, but it was not because of my DID. I am only out to a selective few friends, and one of my teachers and my three guidance counselors. An alter once attempted to out us to my parents, but that did not go well so we covered for it. 

Do you have an inner world? If you do, what is it like?

We do! Our inner world has gone through three stages of being as our system continued to grow. I will answer this further in a sperate post.

What is communication like between you and the others? Do you have any particular systems set up to help with communication?

We try using journals but that does not always work as some alters just don’t think to write in them. We are working on using them more, because at the moment they are one of the few things documenting the timeline of changes for our system. And of course, I hear the alters I am close with’s thoughts. This is not always a good thing though.

Has any conventional advice for DID ever not worked for you (journaling is unhelpful, can’t visualize an inner world, etc)?

Yes! Like I said, the journaling bit is hard. Our system has an issue with just sucking it up and dealing when things go missing. Even if those things are very important, like my inhaler (Which we found) and two different book series that a lot of the alters enjoyed. (Still looking....)

What does “safety” mean for you?

Right now in our situation, safety is the closed off comfort of a closet with books and blankets, and the isolation of a basement that no one else goes into. We like enclosed spaces.

Do you have any introjects? How do you feel about their source? How do they feel about their source?

We have quite a few! I think for the most part they all love/respect/are interested in their source! We only have one that delves quite far from “canon” and we don’t let him front much.

Do you have any non-human alters?

We do! We have animal alters, and monster alters that all have their own lives within the system. Two of our littles, Skippy and Honey, are also considered non-human, because Skippy is half-wolf, and Honey is a centaur.

Is there anything that makes you feel like your experience with DID is “different” than what you see other people with DID talk about?

I don’t know...I don’t think so.

Who is the most likely to get into a fight (physical or verbal?) Who’s the most likely to try to patch things up afterward?

Almost certainly Melanthea would get into a fight if she was allowed. She’s very physical and has some anger issues to deal with. Our caretakers, Sally and Trudy will often front to take care of the body if we get into scrapes, or are just in general hurt.

Does anyone wish they could make big changes to your body’s appearance?

Almost everyone! We have, for the most part, elected to ignore mirrors, as we are too scared of surgeries to get anything changed.

Choose some parts/alters and describe each in 5 words or less.

I suppose we’ll do our primary protector, Evan! Let’s see...Goofy, loud, fidgety, sweet, and comfortable describe him well!

What does dissociation feel like for you?

We slowly stop hearing words in a conversation, and our vision blurs when we slip into dissociation. Then what happens next depends on what type of dissociation it is. One thing we know for certain, is when we are dissociated, we don’t like anyone to touch our face. Someone did once, as a rude joke, and it somehow messed up our vision for about an hour, so all we could see was green and blue. (The grass and sky.)

How often do you think you switch?

Now that’s a hard question, and of course it depends on the day/alter/situation. When we are with our cat, almost all the littles blend together regularly, because he is a positive trigger for them. I wouldn’t say that we switch more in public, I think we just acknowledge it more then.

Do any of you experience body dysphoria or dysmorphia?

So many of us! Again, mirrors.

How many parts/alters do you think you have at this time?

It was over 150+ the last I checked, I need to better update our lists and such.

If you have younger parts/alters, what makes them happy or excited?

Our cat, stuffed animals and candy, typical little things. Our little Lulu is often brought out when we are talking to one of our partners, as she thinks they are best friends. : )

Do you consider yourselves to be covert or overt about having DID?

We are incredibly overt! That’s why it’s so strange our parents can’t imagine us having DID. We have had littles, animal alters, male alters, the whole likes front in front of our parents! They question non of it, even when we ask them to call us different names all the time. It frustrates me. We have even had littles front at school, both on accident and purpose.

Do you experience denial often? How do you react when you experience it?

I only experience it rarely, because I am not the original Host, and I remember my forming. But whenever I do have the fleeting worry, I remind myself if I was faking it would be a conscious decision, and I wouldn’t be worried if I was.

What grounding methods or skills work best for you? Do different skills work better for different parts/alters?

When I am panicked Sally will sometimes run her fingers on the body’s arms and face, and she taps to make me focus. Some of our alters have less...Healthy options.

What does “recovery” mean for you?

Recovery means functional multiplicity, with a nice big house and kids and animals, and plenty of warm blankets arranged to make nests. : )

[strangertheory]

With the theory about Hopper and others potentially being introjects, would that mean that everything that took place with Hopper and others like El and Will etc. was purely in an inner world? Joyce for example, who I assume isn’t an introject...her interactions with the Hopper we see would have never happened, at least IRL? Also, how do you think they would reveal this theory to the audience in a way that they understand? I find it interesting but I think if they outright state it, it could be seen as sensationalizing DID by comparing it to scifi and could receive criticism. I hope you’re well, btw!

I’ll answer each of your questions one at a time. (Thanks for messaging!)

“With the theory about Hopper and others potentially being introjects, would that mean that everything that took place with Hopper and others like El and Will etc. was purely in an inner world?"

The nature of an introject alter is that they are based on a person or character who exists in the external world. Introjects can be “factives” (based on a real person – perhaps like Chief Jim Hopper) or “fictives” (based on a fictional character – like the Demogorgon or the Mindflayer.)

Therefore this means that, hypothetically, if there is an introject who is based on an original Jim Hopper that the Byers family knows, that there could hypothetically be scenes that are the “original” Chief Jim Hopper and then scenes that are a very different Jim Hopper who exists in internal worlds in the DID System. Some scenes might be one Hopper, and some scenes might be the other Hopper.

It’s important to keep in mind that when there is an introject alter based on a person that does not mean that the introject alter will behave and think and act exactly like the “original” that their identity was based on. Their mind subconsciously established a new alter and identity that knows themselves to be Jim Hopper, but that person will be totally different from who the other Jim Hopper is because they are truly not the same person. An alter of Jim Hopper might be based on one particular idea of who Jim Hopper is as a person, but alter-Hopper’s identity can also be heavily influenced by the DID System’s lived experiences and thoughts and sometimes even other people that they know too, and therefore the accuracy of that initial persona of alter-Hopper will be entirely dependent on the DID System’s interpretation of who they think Jim Hopper is.

Joyce for example, who I assume isn’t an introject...her interactions with the Hopper we see would have never happened, at least IRL?”

So. Joyce! Hopper and Joyce. Within my current DID theory and meta I see a variety of possibilities regarding Hopper and Joyce’s interactions with one another as well as a variety of possibilities about Joyce’s character. We currently know her as Jonathan and Will’s mom. I did briefly touch on one hypothetical in which Joyce might not be, under all circumstances in the series, “mom” a few months ago but I haven’t discussed it extensively because it’s an idea that I doubt would be especially popular in the fan community and is very niche to my current thoughts on the series. You can read my speculation on “a Joyce who is not mom” in this blogpost here at this link. I do see it as hypothetically possible that there is a Joyce that is an alter. Hypothetically. There are many possibilities, but I do see this as one of many hypotheticals. I recognize this is a very controversial “what if?” and many will see it as highly unlikely, but the possibility that there is a Joyce who is not mom and that is perhaps a very well-loved and trustworthy person in the DID System’s life and who has an introject alter based on the “original Joyce” who might not be a parent but perhaps is, in the external world, a doctor or a nurse or a therapist that Will and Jonathan know as “mom” was something that I have considered. Maybe. Hypothetically. Perhaps.

I am working on a very long blogpost in which I’ll explore a handful of very different hypotheticals about Hopper’s character and my thoughts about his role as the “deeply flawed but protective dad” in the story as well as address my thoughts regarding his relationship with Joyce. Hopper’s dynamic with Will and Hopper’s dynamic with El are also very interesting to me, so I’ll definitely be exploring his relationship with each of them in that WIP blogpost as well.

I’ve avoided talking about Hopper and Joyce for a while because many of the hypotheticals that I’ve considered about their characters are rather incompatible with current popular fandom ideas about their relationship. I don’t really ship Jopper, but it’s arguably one of the most popular ships in the fan community. There are one or two scenarios in which I could see Jopper being “endgame” but there are a handful of hypotheticals in which I see them absolutely not being a couple at all. I’ll be discussing most of these hypotheticals that I’ve considered in the Hopper blogpost that I’m working on. Originally I wasn’t going to talk about Hopper at all until after season 4 because I was anxious about how my ideas might be received by the fan community, but given that even the most mundane opinions that I’ve expressed over the last year have resulted in me receiving a few angry anonymous messages I figured: screw it. If I can’t even ship Byler or like Bob Newby without getting a little bit of harassment and pushback from other fans then I may as well talk about whatever I want and share all of my ideas. So I will be finally sharing all of my ideas about Hopper and his relationship with Joyce, El, and Will. The blogpost I’m working on will probably take a while to finish but I hope to publish it before season 4 is released.

When I’m thinking about different theories and possibilities for what might be happening in Stranger Things I rarely feel as if there’s only one possible route for the story to take. Yes, I do at this point feel very confident that there is a meta narrative happening in the story and that not everything is as fans currently believe them to be regarding both the character relationships and what each character is dealing with, but the possibilities that exist within that are vast. I might suspect that Stranger Things is intended to be about a DID System, but this creates millions of possibilities for the route that the story could take. I might believe that I’m starting to notice certain consistent details that imply the Stranger Things universe is based on something that has a logic and structure to it, but that doesn’t mean that I’m suddenly psychic and can predict what will happen within that universe’s structure. The story is in the hands of the writers, and I’m eager to see where they take it.

“Also, how do you think they would reveal this theory to the audience in a way that they understand?”

I wrote about how this could hypothetically be explored and revealed in the show in this blogpost here. 

“I find it interesting but I think if they outright state it, it could be seen as sensationalizing DID by comparing it to scifi and could receive criticism.”

Although it is hypothetically possible that writers could choose to create a fictional story in which superpowers are real and a character with DID also happens to have superpowers, and this has been done before in popular media (ex. David Haller, aka Legion, who was first introduced in the X-Men comics in 1985 and who has dissociative identity disorder and who has alters with mutant abilities) I personally currently theorize that all of the fantastical events that have happened in Stranger Things so far might be intended to have happened exclusively in internal worlds and not in the external world at all. Events that take place in internal worlds are not limited by the rules of physics and what is “real” in the same way that events that take place in our external world are. Events in internal worlds can be very metaphorical and fantastical because they exist within the mind. The scifi and fantasy elements of the story could, hypothetically, be directly tied to fantastical events that are not sensationalized but are truly accurate to the way that some (but not all) real DID Systems might process memories and trauma within their internal worlds. Internal worlds aren’t dreams, they’re much more vivid and consistently structured and they are often structured around real-world experiences that they’ve experienced, however I want to very loosely compare an internal world to a “dream world” in order to clarify why having fantastical events and monsters and characters with superpowers in an internal world would not necessarily be sensationalizing DID but rather portraying a realistic hypothetical. Telling a story that features internal worlds in a DID System in which fantastical events happen is not inherently sensationalization since fantastical events can and do happen in some real DID Systems’ internal worlds and that is not something that is exaggerated or fictionalized at all. What might seem unrealistic and fantastical to us might be very real for them and most especially for alters who spend significant amount of time in internal worlds. To alters that live in internal worlds exclusively and never front in the body the internal world is their real world and, comparatively, our world might feel very fictitious and unreal to them. But it’s definitely important to keep in mind that every DID System will be very different, and that any one example of a DID System isn’t necessarily comparable to others since their unique experiences will define the way that their System works.

The ethics of “should a popular show like Stranger Things be about DID” is a complex question and an important one, but I haven’t explored it extensively because I believe we do not currently have enough information regarding the approach and the resources that the production team and writers have taken in the creation of the Stranger Things universe and story in order to discuss those ethics at much depth quite yet. If the story is, in fact, about DID or a specific mental condition: did they consult with medical experts? Are any DID Systems directly involved in the production as consultants? Is this particular series entirely fictionalized or are certain plotpoints based on real DID Systems’ experiences? If they are not basing the events of the story on a “true story” then what are the ethics of creating an original story about a fictional DID System? I do believe it is important that creators make a conscious effort to be informed and ethical in their approach to storytelling that involves any real-world medical references, especially with regard to commonly misunderstood and misrepresented conditions like DID, but given the nature of Stranger Things and the way that I believe we are not yet aware of the “bigger picture” of what is happening in the story because the writers intend for it to be revealed in future seasons, I do not think we know enough of the context of the creation of the show in order to begin discussing those nuances. I think and hope that we will learn a lot more over the next few years as seasons 4 and 5 are released. The question of “should they” is a different topic than “are they,” however. Whether they “should” or whether they are doing it “well” will need to be discussed if and when we know if they actually are doing it and also once we know more about their creative approach to the subject matter and what resources they have used in the creation of the Stranger Things universe. I think the direction that the story takes next is also going to be important regarding the assessment of whether or not the story was written ethically, too. If they reveal, for example, that the story is about a DID System that has murdered people or done terrible things then I would immediately say “nope, that’s a misrepresentation and a continued stigmatization of a deeply misunderstood community and I see the story as being unethically done.” But we don’t know what will happen in season 4 and 5 yet. Thus far all I can say is that I believe the writers have effectively encouraged us, as fans, to deeply empathize with and care about El and Will and Hopper and everyone and that this gives me hope that whatever the story is about that the writers are taking an approach that is deeply respectful of those who are neurodivergent or dealing with mental illness like PTSD etc. They’re the heroes and survivors and they are not the villains. And that in itself matters very much. But I guess we will see what happens in next in the series and whether or not the story is about DID or is about something else entirely.

“I hope you’re well, btw!”

Thank you! ^_^ I’m doing really well right now. 

...

*As always please keep in mind that I'm doing my best to explain things as well as I can but that, ultimately, if you'd like to learn more about DID and internal worlds and alters that you should find up-to-date and recent medical resources on these subjects. I am not a medical resource I'm a stranger on the internet talking about a fictional Netflix series.

[fqirycollective]

System Community: What is wrong with you? (Introject Version)

Terminology is a go, woooooo.

Introject: an alter based off of a pre-existing source

Fictive: a type of introject based off of a fictional character

Factive: a type of introject based off of a real person

Why do introjects form?

There are multiple reasons why introjects form. One of them would be escapism. Many people use media to escape what is happening around them. For systems, it's often used to escape what's going on around them. Books, music, TV shows, etc. are all used to escape everyday life. Oftentimes, at least for us, a person will wish to completely escape their life and live in the media's life instead. Another reason introjects form is due to hyperfixations neurodivergent people have. They surround themself in that source due to their hyperfixation, and the brain could see this hyperfixation as a way to calm the person hyperfixating. Forming an introject that would calm the person who is hyperfixating would help the system in a number of ways, don't you think? Another reason is you relate to the trauma of that person/character. We have an Adrien Agreste fictive, and we heavily relate to his trauma. This one could start out as a kin, because you relate to them, but later on could turn into a fictive if you're a system.

The hate introjects get is unreal. This is coming from an introject. Honestly, we have emotions too. We're just like any other alter. We formed for a reason too, just like any other alter. We're here because we're needed to be. You think we choose to come here, away from our family and friends? No, we don't. But, we do. Why? Because we're just like any other alter. We get told we're fake for existing, for being different from our source, and for being similar. It's stupid, too. We deserve the same amount of respect you give to non-introjects. If you dislike introjects or introject heavy systems, or don't believe they exist/fakeclaim them, kindly get off our page.

Not only do we get a lot of hate, but we're also gatekept. "Introjects can't be hosts," or really "Introjects can't be *any role*" is also incredibly stupid. This is gatekeeping in a lot of ways, because it's saying we can't be or do something because of something else - especially when it's something we can't control, like roles. Doing this ties in with the hate we get.

Don't say, "Oh, you're a hypocrite for telling us not to gatekeep introjects while you're gatekeeping system origins." There's a reason for that. The hate introjects get is undeserved. There is a perfectly scientific explanation of why introjects exist and why we can also have any role needed (because we're the same as original alters!). However, there isn't a scientific explanation for endogenic "systems." The only endogenic "systems" we support are the ones that claim to not have trauma because they don't remember it or think their trauma is bad enough. That, can be explained by science. Systems genuinely without trauma? No, that can't be. Hope that makes sense.

Anyway, this leads me to problematic singlet fans. Introjects of fictional characters and famous people often have fans that love to meet them. It's weird when they DM asking to speak to a specific alter because they're a fan of their source, and even weirder when the introject is source canon and the fan knows a lot about them. I hope I'm making sense here, but this can lead to a lot of alters wanting to go dormant. We don't want to be harrassed by fans who think they know us because they know our source. This also applies to systems who have fans and don't understand how bad it makes us feel, but it's usually more singlets than other systems.

Reminder! I'm not a professional, nor do I claim to be. I am simply trying to point out a big problem in this community. Introjects are real and deserved to be treated as any other alter. If you feeled called out by this post, or block us or try to cancel us for it, go ahead. Be angry at us. Because if you support what I'm telling you is wrong, we don't want your support.

[circusstarz]

Alright. I or we want to talk about something.

Just saw someone say "You can't choose alters" and people who think you can are pretty much shit heads, because again, that's not how alters nor DID/OSDD works-

I very much expected to get an Arthur alter from the Joker 2019 movie, but I didn't even after fixating on it for a while. That surprised me too, but in the end, Arthur was just a D/A I had got a couple of days.

I also didn't split into a Luca alter. Did I like the fandom? Yes. Did I enjoy the media? Yes. But did something happen that could have provoked a splitting in my system? No!

Now for the most recent example would be my Tim alter; a very very stressful situation came up for half a day, we probably even split there, maybe even split twice, and the next day all I remember is suddenly knowing Tim was there even though I've NEVER even watched the movie or series in the slightest- yes, I've been thinking about Tim a lot those prior days before that situation, yes I searched the movie up a bit, but I still wasn't interested nor fixated. And then suddenly there he was. Letting himself know. My brain took the most recent person I thought about and created this as an stress holder or protector.

That has happened with so many other media's too; Hotel Transylvania was a huge thing, though I doubt I have a Johnny alter. I really don't. I just love the franchise and liked it as comfort.

Your brain can legitimately choose any fucking thing (a person you're close with, a fictional character, an animal and even objects) to cope with in that moment. Whatever YOUR brain needs in that moment uses this thing as a coping mechanism. You can even split off as an alter from a song you've heard if it triggered an emotion. Legitimately, the origins of alters are so diverse it's sometimes impossible to know why they're there.

I only remember having or noticing alters after the most stressful things in my life; which is last year December, a positive split alter after being together with a friend I almost lost (which was half a year of suffering with abandonment fears, depression, confusion, anger, etc) , immense arguments, all that jazz. It has NEVER happened out of boredom or because I thought "I'm them now!"

I can legitimately track when my alters may have appeared, but they just popped up and had enough courage to front may much later in time when probably that same emotion that caused this split was triggered. That was Edward and Riddler.

And secondly, I'm so sick of this stigma around fictive and factive systems-

Especially neurodivergent people that have autism and Adhd (but there are WAY many others that make you fixate on something uncontrollably) tend to use fiction as coping or comfort. And traumatized children/toddlers with these disorders? It explains itself. Maybe it was the fictional character that made them feel 'safe', maybe imagining being a fictional character helped them cope with their heavy trauma. And sometimes you can't even control it. I think I have a possible actual Introject factive (a alter based of actual people) of Bo Burnham and I couldn't do anything against it. Stress filled our system, overwhelming emotions came out and it was the next thing we've seen before it or being fixated on it. He's there probably, but I'm not sure. And I'm not gonna assume anything.

But you get my point here and I'm going to repeat it again;

Being a Introject factive or fictive heavy system is something you CANT control and you shouldn't blame systems for being the way they are.

This is the way their brain coped with intense trauma. This is the way that helped them overcome repeated abuse, neglect or other forms of trauma. Stop making systems of DID/OSDD a quirky thing, and I even think Endogenic systems (basically non-traumatic systems) are making fun of actual systems because they choose their alters or think it's funny having alters. And no, I do not believe in BPD systems either. BPD systems do not exist. BPD is the same person having split emotions, not split personalities. They're emotions don't feel like their own, but not a completely different identify that has their own likes, names, ages, quirks, etc. And if they do exist, then you're probably in denial and DO have DID or OSDD.

These "systems" didn't experience any relevant trauma in their childhood (do not understand this wrong now; BPD is a trauma-based disorder, yet their trauma didn't affect their own personality, it didn't make their self split; it only made their emotions split.) and just 'create' personalities on their own even though that is NOT possible later in life after the maximum age of 8 or 9.

The reason alters are 'created' is because the 'core' was unable to form a fully functional personality in the most important life stages of development when 'finding' themselves. Their trauma broke this process, splitting their developing 'parts' into several pieces or fully stopping this process of a personality forming. Their identity, if you say. And this repeats itself when they grow up too, causing this exact same splitting of alters once anything stressful or traumatic appears.

Any other possibiliy of alters appearing after their fully formed personality and identity of self? No. Absolutely not. And I stand by that statement. You don't need alters if you already know who you are. You can't even 'act different' or be someone else if you fully know who you are, even after trauma later in life. Yes, trauma can cause disconnection from your body or mind and thoughts or feelings in many ways. And yes, trauma can make you experience a loss of identity or self for a period of time. But you still know who you are after recovering. You have a basic knowledge of who you deeply are. But back then, your child self/people with DID or OSDD used different 'versions' to cope with trauma or stress because that's simply how they learned to cope. They couldn't handle this trauma, so someone else had in their head. They dissociated.

Anyway, this is my huge rant for once because I'm actually sick of seeing these discussions about Endogenic systems or others judging fictive/factive or Introject heavy systems, little heavy systems, protector heavy systems or any other heavy systems. You don't know what that person's brain needed in their trauma. So stop assuming shit.

[gxdsetmxnsters]

Re: Os’ post where he was vaguing about realizing things that really make you realize who your friends are.

I’m opting to not reblog with this message, rather just posting this one individually.

I don’t know how much people know about the DID/OSDD Community or the greater Plural Community but there’s always been a general disjunct between the two which really gets into Syscourse (basically discourse around system information and origins). We’re not talking about this to get into syscourse. You might not agree with the idea that multiplicity can come from anything other than DID/OSDD, and that’s fine. We’re not asking you to think differently, just be respectful. Or choose to not interact with us! Just don’t go looking to pick a fight. Please and thank you.

I suppose I should give an explanation of this post and why we’re bringing this up. You see, when we were just figuring out that we were a system we got pulled into a part of the community that really established that there was only one way to be a system. Only one, and anyone else that claimed to be a system not DID/OSDD, were faking.

There’s probably people who fake the disorder out there. Going to say that bluntly. However no one has a right to fake claim people. No one really knows another person’s experiences.

The part of the community we used to be in had a lot of toxic mindsets. If people didn’t fit other’s opinions or what they deemed to be “true” experiences (whether or not it’s in the DSM-V or not) the other person would get called fake. Even if the only thing that system has alters who have a typing quirk. Or introjects of homestuck characters. Those things would make a system automatically “fake” in the eyes of some. That whole part of the community is just... not great and I’m glad we got out of it because doing so has allowed us to really figure out our own stuff.

Essentially it was the allegory of the cave. Since realizing we were a system we’d only ever had “traumagenic systems are the only real and valid systems” told to us. That’s all we really knew. We were told by other systems constantly that anyone else who identified as a system that wasn’t a DID/OSDD system was fake, but we’re out the cave now. We’re out in the world realizing that there’s many, many different types and ways to be plural.

Are we still traumagenic? Yes, yes we are. We have trauma. Enough of it to warrant a PTSD and dissociative disorder diagnosis. Are we only traumagenic? No, we’re realizing we’re not.

See, the thing is a big issue between the traumagenic and non-traumagenic communities is that neither group really wants each other in their spaces. Traumagenics because they don’t want people they perceive as fake being around and making light of a disorder (which honestly I can understand, people that fake mental illnesses are awful people). Non-traumagenics because who the hell wants someone around that constantly invalidates your personal experiences when you just want to exist on your own?

We’re still largely traumagenic. We’re working on an OSDD-1b diagnosis with our therapist. She’s acknowledged us being a traumagenic system. However there’s two members of the system now that aren’t a result of trauma at all. We don’t know why they’re here. There isn’t always an answer to why these members show up. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isn’t. Regardless, because of these two new members, we technically can’t label ourselves as traumagenic anymore. We have to say mixed origin.

So what kind of non-traumagenic system origin do we identify as on top of being traumagenic?

Well... that’s where people are either going to roll with this or go “fuck no” and yeah, it’s hell to wrap your head around, at least it was for us when working on accepting and realizing this. In all honesty we’re a traumagenic AND gateway system.

It is our firm belief that we experience such a thing and have been for a while without realizing it, because yes! You can not realize you have people coming and going from the system, especially if you were in a place like we were where even asking about the possibility was frowned upon. How’s it possible though? Well, for us and what we feel like probably has happened in the past is that we “split” an alter that only really fronted once before never being seen again.

Please note this isn’t like possession as the system can have control over who and who doesn’t enter the system.

Members who come from outside sources are often referred to as Walk-Ins.

Walk-ins also have their own set of memories and/or lives outside of the system they currently reside in. I, for instance, as a walk-in of Edward from TV Show Gotham, remember things that happened that weren’t necessarily shown in the show. For instance, dragging Oswald from the trailer he was hiding in to my car to drive back to my apartment after burying Kristen and the obnoxious fool who stumbled upon me... he was a lot heavier than one might expect and it was a pain in the ass to wrangle him into the backseat without causing more damage to his shoulder.

Also! Those that know us well know that we have multiple versions of Edward in our system, so how, might you ask, can we now also have a walk-in from the very show that we have split introjects of? Easy answer, the existence of the multiverse.

Regardless,the system is still largely traumagenic but there’s two walk-ins; Oswald and I, at this moment. It’s complicated. It might not make sense to you, it hardly makes sense to us right now but we’re learning. No hard feelings if anyone no longer wishes to associate with us. We knew the possibility and write this knowing that might happen.

We’ll still post DID/OSDD information of course, because it’s the larger part of our system identification, so not really any changes with that? Or anything else really with our blog. It just felt like something we needed to be clear about because it’s our identity. It’s us who our followers and whoever else decides to interact with us or our blog have a right to know .

You have a right to know about the person who runs this blog because interactions lie so heavily in knowing who we are. Not just as a system with the plural pronouns, but as individual people too.

— Edward Nygma (❓)

[the-rings-system]

(Possibly TW?) So, we're most likely going to get a LOT of hate/disgust for this (hence why we're on anon) but we are being 100% genuine when we ask this. You see, in our system, we have an introject (I believe that's the proper term) who is well... How can I say this.... He's uh, he's well a real criminal (who is dead now btw, but existed at one point in time.) He's no violent btw, but idk how to feel about this. Thoughts? Advice? Is this normal or are we bad?

You can’t choose who you split. If your brain decided to split a factive of that guy, it wasn’t because you had any control over it, and there was probably a good reason (your brain decided some trait of his would help you through trauma/stress). Just treat him like any other system member - talk with him about any destructive tenancies if he has them, give him love, and accept him. Factives are just like any other alter, regardless of who they are an introject of.

[absentgoji]

looks like i missed DID awareness day? i had no idea it was on 05/03.

here are some questions you peeps are answering and i think it would be a good exercise to do so too, right now. then do it again maybe in a couple months.

i know you're asking each other by ask, but i dont have any followers so i will just answer them all by myself.

DID Awareness Day Questions:

What is one thing you wish everyone understood about DID? no, it is not like split , nor any other representation in media. no, its not noticeable (or, at least, not easily noticeable). people with DID are not multiple persons inside a body. people with DID are not 'survivors', 'fragmented heroes', or whatever romantic nickname you wanna call them. we are people who have to deal with a mental illness because of past trauma we wish we hadn't been through. people with DID are not doing this for attention: believe me, id rather have to deal with any other thing than not knowing myself, not being reliable. not everyone shares the same experience, each person deals with their disorder in a different way. however, DID has very specific symptoms we all do share, even if we describe it in a different way.

Are you in therapy? What is your experience with therapy like? yes. im in therapy, but i dont really find it helpful for this specific disorder in my case. i may see a different therapist soon because mine, even though they did diagnose me, has been treating the disorder tangentially. anxiety, adhd and depression were their main concerns. it took them some months to get to it, putting the pieces together (memory loss, derealization, depersonalization, distorted feeling of self, me talking about myself as if i was talking about a different person), and when they finally did, we worked directly on it just for a few months, then moved on to other things and we only get back to it occasionally.

Do you have an inner world? If you do, what is it like? i know i do have one. at this point i dont know if i made it up or if it was there from the beginning. i dont really 'go there' anymore. its nothing very logical, but more like different locations my different shades like to be at. when i talk to myself in a more active way i can usually find me (them) there. but its been a while since i last did that. i will address this in a different post.

What is communication like between you and the others? Do you have any particular systems set up to help with communication? writing. if i feel like i have something to talk about, i will write about it and probably answer to myself when i feel i have a different opinion. sometimes i will tell my friends about something and they remind me about that opinion later on. its not their work and i dont do it on purpose, but i know thats one of the ways i have of knowing what my other shades feel like. communication used to be better, but at some point i decided i did not want to have that approach to this anymore and i just stopped trying to communicate directly.

Has any conventional advice for DID ever not worked for you (journaling is unhelpful, can’t visualize an inner world, etc)? trying to make a scheme about how this works has been quite a mess, at least for me. i learnt (through tumblr, mostly) many things i had to unlearn. i learnt there were categories (protectors, etc.), and my shades didnt really fit the labels. i learnt that the same triggers make the same shades come out, but, for me, it might not happen that way. noticing stuff didnt work the way 'it was supposed to work' was harmful and i would stress so much about it. if this was supposed to be logical, it wouldnt be a disorder in the first place.

What does “safety” mean for you? feeling free to talk about me in any way i want to, not being afraid of making people feel uncomfortable or cringe, having them accept me as i am. i dont want anybody to pity me, handle me with special care nor anything. i am a normal person and i want to be treated as such.

Do you have any introjects? How do you feel about their source? How do they feel about their source? no.

Do you have any non-human alters? no

Is there anything that makes you feel like your experience with DID is “different” than what you see other people with DID talk about? all of the above, i think. also memory loss, maybe. the most common approach to it i usually get to read about is full blackout, 'alters' not knowing what others did, etc. in my case, while that can and has happened, is not the most common scenario. i dont remember if it used to be different in the past. ive been in therapy for like three years now and my memory has definitely gotten better. now i can describe three types of memory: - things i do remember. - things i dont remember, but i know. - things i dont remember, and i dont know.

Who is the most likely to get into a fight (physical or verbal?) Who’s the most likely to try to patch things up afterward? i would say my most problematic shade is purplish (i havent decided if i want to go back to using names again) and the one thats there to fix things right after is red.

Does anyone wish they could make big changes to your body’s appearance? yes. in most of my shades i identify as a woman or a nonbinary person with a feminine leaning presentation, but there are a couple of them that makes me really want to start transitioning. its pretty uncomfortable.

Choose some parts/alters and describe each in 5 words or less. i will answer to this question once i decide how i want to describe myself.

What does dissociation feel like for you? stuff happens and my brain just cant grab any thought. its hard for me to talk. im thinking about many things and none at the same time (crossed conversations). nothing is real. if im in a room, theres nothing outside the room and the walls, floor and furniture are fake. sometimes i am fake. people are not real and i can be careless about the way i talk to them because i dont believe it will have any consecuences (its a dream, right?). if dissociation is strong enough, my senses dont work well. i cant hear well, food doesnt taste like anything... (this is just my brain not being able to process whats happening, i believe).

How often do you think you switch? as of today, i have no idea. i dont usually notice the exact time i do, but some time later, when i catch myself thinking in a different way or doing someting 'out of character'.

Do any of you experience body dysphoria or dysmorphia? see number 11!

How many parts/alters do you think you have at this time? this is something i also stopped doing. it makes no sense, in my case, to try and keep count of them.

If you have younger parts/alters, what makes them happy or excited? i dont have any part that's significantly older or younger than the 'core?' one.

Do you consider yourselves to be covert or overt about having DID? covert. im really self conscious about it.

Do you experience denial often? How do you react when you experience it? all the time. i try to tell myself i have nobody to lie to, and that theres no point in pretending when theres no one around... so why would i fake it?

What grounding methods or skills work best for you? Do different skills work better for different parts/alters? relaxing, talking to someone, receiving some comfort and ignoring the fact that im dissociating are the things that work best for me. i usually check tiktok or twitter, listen to some music or talk to my partner til i feel better. if i dont, taking a shower also helps.

What does “recovery” mean for you? i dont know yet. i think 'being a single shade' is not possible for me, because i know that DID is not a disorder that can be healed, so i just hope i can learn how to live healthily this way.

[rolypolywl]

Welcome to day 13!

Monday is weigh in day, so here it is!

Up a little, but that’s to be expected. You can’t lose every week.

So, on to the topic.

So, this week I’ve got another two parter. And this is because I actually was surprised to find more than I expected! So I intended to talk about setting goals and motivating yourself, and I found all of this psychological stuff to back it up!

So today we’re covering motivation and positivity.

So, to start with, we’re going to get a little deep into the psychology side, but stick with me.

So, Web Psychology has a really interesting article on this. They say, “Losing weight is one of the most difficult human undertakings. Why? Because it requires a lifelong commitment to healthy eating and exercise habits, and sustaining motivation is incredibly hard.”

Then they bring up some points I think a lot of people don’t think about. “When people quit smoking or give up drugs or alcohol, they go through an agonizing withdrawal phase — but eventually they learn to manage life without their substance. A former smoker knows exactly how many cigarettes she can have every day: zero. Weight loss is different because food never goes away. [...] Rather than giving up food the way an addict gives up alcohol, you have to make constant decisions about eating, sometimes without even having adequate information about the foods in front of you.”

This is something that I learned when I tried OA, which I will get into later, and it is true, and really hard. We will always have to deal with food.

But, it isn’t just food! There’s an exercise component! Web Psychology continues, “Exercise, the other half of the weight-loss equation, also requires constant motivation. Recovering addicts need to form some new habits to replace old triggers, but for the most part, abstaining from smoking, drugs or alcohol is a question of not doing things. Exercise is a question of doing something. You have to continuously find time for it in your schedule, and find options for working out when it’s raining, or when your workout buddy lets you down, or if you’re injured. You need intense levels of motivation to sustain an exercise regimen.”

They also warn to be wary of your triggers. Triggers are the things that can screw it up for you. “Triggers are emotions, foods, environments, or situations that cause you to “fall off the wagon.” Dinner out with friends may be a trigger for overindulging while rainy days might trigger you to skip workouts.”

So that pretty neatly sums up why all this is so hard. And, as I’ve said before, I’ve been a Yo Yo dieter, so I’ve been there when the best of intentions run up against these roadblocks and send me tumbling back into unhealthy habits and weight gain.

Psychology Today, in their three part article on motivation, adds their own twist by referencing this quote from Mark Twain: ““The only way to keep your health is to eat what you don't want, drink what you don't like, and do what you'd rather not.”― Mark Twain”

Now we all love a good Mark Twain quote, right? And this seems both funny and true. Psychology Today extrapolates, “Twain’s statement represents the traditional approach to dieting and fitness—that to lose weight is to be miserable. We diet. We exercise. We might even lose weight, but we turn into woeful, glum little souls, so we don’t keep up the diet. We tell ourselves, or worse, we hear from others—friends, family, teachers, doctors, coworkers—that you're just not motivated.”

Again, that sounds familiar. I’ve been on that miserable side, of hating what I’m eating, and constantly feeling hungry, and trying to fit in exercise, and feeling miserable the whole time. Especially when it doesn’t work or doesn’t work fast enough.

So, these two articles seem to “get” it. They get what we’re going through, and how it can be so hard. So now, tell us how to fix it! How do we stay motivated? How do we keep from being glum? How do we maintain this long term?

Well, first of all, Psychology Today has some groundbreaking news. At least, I thought it was groundbreaking. “A recent meta-analysis study in the Journal of the American Medical Association looked at different weight loss plans and found no significant difference between the success of one program versus another. It came down to the individual’s motivation to stay with the program that made all the difference. The question isn’t which diet or fitness plan is the best. It is really what is the best program for you, so that you can stick with it and make lifestyle changes.”

Wait, so I don’t have to eat only Kale, or do the stairmaster (which I hate) or cut seventeen different things out of my diet? I like this news!

And really, it makes sense. There are so many name brand groups out there, like Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig and Biggest Loser, and so many diets, Atkins, Gluten-Free, Mediterranean, Juicing, Low-Fat, Low-Carb, Low-Sugar…

There are a billion options, and all of them have success stories. But they can’t all be right, right? Well, that’s what makes this new research make so much sense. These different plans work for different people! If you are actually dying on a Low-Carb diet, then that clearly isn’t the one for you. But there is a “one” out there! You just have to find it!

So that, to me, was groundbreaking and amazing! Because I’ve tried some of these diets and been appropriately miserable. Now I know I just need to find the “right” thing.

Psychology Today explains it really well: “What most articles on exercise or weight loss do not cover is the power of working from one’s own personality, unique style, and what is important to the individual. These psychological factors are a huge set of resources that can make all the difference in your health journey. They provide you with intrinsic motivation, doing something because you are interested in it, value it, and enjoy doing it. And as new science tells us, it makes all of the difference between just dieting versus successful weight loss and maintenance.”

And it makes sense! If you hate jogging, then an all-jogging exercise plan will make you miserable. But if you love dancing, then going out and dancing a few times a week won’t feel like exercise, but like doing something you love!

Now, let’s talk motivation.

According to Psychology Today, this is actually really important. “In 1996 a team of scientists from the Departments of Psychology and Medicine at the University of Rochester, New York wanted to investigate motivation and weight loss. The researchers found that the type of motivation the participants had significantly affected how much weight was lost.”

When it comes to types, Web Psychology references Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, which you may or may not be familiar with.

The basic idea is that, at the bottom, are your primal, biological needs. You prioritize them. Other things, higher up the pyramid, you can only consider when the lower stuff is taken care of. It’s why we generally care more about breathing than, say, friends, or how we need water more than creativity to survive.

Now, this isn’t to say what we “want”, but what we “need” for survival.

So, why is this relevant? Well, Web Psychology explains, “Food is listed at the bottom of the period, where the most powerful motivators are, but we eat to satisfy other needs as well. If your doctor told you that if you don’t lose weight this week you will die, weight loss would become a physiological need. Most of us want to be healthy, but unless we have pressing health issues related to obesity, our motivations come in the love/belonging and esteem areas of the pyramid.”

Food is a “need”, at the bottom, most crucial part of the pyramid. Motivation to lose weight, generally speaking, comes from higher parts, and therefore is easier to dismiss for more pressing concerns.

So what you need to do is make your motivation feel more powerful. They suggest, “Once you know what your primary motivators are, create powerful images in your mind that relate to them. [...] Choose an image that will keep you focused and return to it often.”

Psychology Today breaks motivation down into four kinds. External, Introjected, Identified, and Intrinsic.

External is: 

Introjected is:

Identified is:

Intrinsic is:

So Mark Twain there, and often us, are stuck up in External or Introjected motivation. We feel we “have” to do this because of health or guilt or shame or society or whatever. These aren’t great long term motivators.

Obviously, these aren’t as powerful as the other two. Psychology Today says, “Research has shown that these types of motivation are internally driven, meaning you feel that you have real choices and the origin of your decision comes from you. [...] Study after study is showing just how crucial identified and intrinsic motivation is to the efficacy and maintenance of a weight loss or exercise program.”

In studies, they found that “participants whose reasons for weight loss were more closely integrated with their sense of self and their values, had more powerful and driving reasons for them to attend the program, which gave them a significant advantage in losing weight and being able to maintain it.”

It is the difference between losing weight to attend a reunion and show off, and losing weight to be alive for your kid’s graduation.

And, there’s more! In this study, they also looked at the people around you! So your Weight Watcher group, or trainer at the gym, or whatever. The people who are supposed to be helping you lose weight. And it turns out that “the perceived autonomy supportiveness of the environment” made a difference for the person losing weight. So places and people that were perceived as being more supportive of your more internal motivation were more helpful!

So since this early study, there have been follow up studies looking at which is more powerful for long term weight loss, and the results are amazing. In a study that helped participants for one year, they found that “Increasing identified and intrinsic forms of motivation predicted weight loss maintenance for 3 years.”

In another study that put participants through a four-month course, “the scientists found that changes in intrinsic motivation—that is increases in enjoyment and interest—to be the best predictor of 16-month weight changes”

So, finding that internal motivation can result in you maintaining your program for months or years longer! Maybe even forever!

So, now, the big question. How do we do this? How do we find the right motivation and keep it up?

Well, Web psychology has a few suggestions to set yourself up for success.

“A goal of losing 40 pounds is admirable, but breaking it into smaller pieces will help you stay focused.” So set small goals, not just big ones. This goes back to when I talked about goal clothes. Don’t just aim for the size 12s, but for every size in between!

They also suggest that “The best short-term goals to aim for and celebrate might be action-oriented rather than results-oriented. In other words, focus on what you need to do, celebrate your progress in that realm, and let your body respond to your actions when it’s ready. Short-term action goals might include things like joining a health club, giving up soda, or putting together a rotation of healthy breakfasts.”

So focus on actions instead of results. This, it turns out, is what we are already kind of doing! By going slow and steady, and focusing on new routines and changes, we are doing this. We started with adding exercise. Then we looked at sleep. We’re going to hit food in the future. The goals I’ve been working towards have been making changes to life and routine, not to hitting certain weight goals.

They also circle back to triggers. “Set yourself up for success by listing as many of your own triggers as you can think of and create strategies to help you face them in advance. Be sure to give yourself a pat on the back any time you’ve resisted your triggers — celebrating your successes will help you stay motivated.”

Again, this is an action you can take to help yourself in advance, like going slow and steady. I encountered this last week when it was raining so much that Roly Mama and I couldn’t do our No Zero Day May walks. So we got ourselves active inside the house!

And, there’s that celebration advice again. Celebrate the small victories! Don’t just keep waiting for big ones!

And Psychology Today backs this up. Though, long term, you’re looking for intrinsic motivation, extrinsic motivation isn’t bad. They say, “Studies such as this show that external or introjected motivation can produce results but only in the short term, and as we know, weight-loss is a long term problem. It's okay to have extrinsic motivation as long as you are not operating only on extrinsic motivation.”

So, again, celebrate those small victories! Give yourself those small rewards at the beginning to help stay motivated! As long as you are also working on your long term, intrinsic motivations as well.

So, that is it for today. Like I said, this is a meaty topic, and I’m continuing it on Wednesday, but this is the first half.

This has been Roly Poly Weight loss. As always, I am your host, Roly Poly. Please share your motivations, both intrinsic and extrinsic, with the hashtag, #Motivation. And know that these can change as you change!

And please join me next time!

[deathlygristly]

I found this blog of people's stories about mental illness, and I've been reading through the archive.

The ones who talk about their ignorance before they were diagnosed are helpful. Because I have that problem where I assume that people already know everything, and that if people are assholes about things it's because they're assholes, full stop, but reading these personal essays with people admitting that they bought into prejudices and stereotypes before they were diagnosed themselves is helping me feel some sort of fleeting empathy that I'm sure will be gone soon, but hey. Maybe every time I feel it, it gets a little stronger, and if I keep trying one day it will actually sink in.

I guess it's like...a while after the Bad Times, one of the people who had turned on me and abandoned me had forgotten to remove me from the friends list of her personal LJ, and I saw a post about her husband having a major depressive episode, and her reaction was the usual "Why are you depressed when you have me and the house, etc.?"

I hope she's learned by now. And also it helped me a bit, because I realized that there was no way she could have understood what was going on back then, and that it wasn't so much that anyone on either side was a bad person. She just had no way of understanding, and at the time I was so terrified of everyone that I wasn't capable of reaching out at all, much less over such a vast gap of experience.

I wonder why I have such a hard time understanding ignorance and why I always interpret it as malice.

Well, there is the whole "brain adapted from childhood to scan for and defend against threats" thing, and ignorant people do sound pretty damn malicious. I mean, if someone says "You just want attention!', how do you know if that's coming from ignorance or if it's coming from manipulation and rumor mongering and trying to get other people to turn against you? I can't tell, and after the Bad Times I figure it's much much safer to just assume that it's intentional and meant to hurt and that it's a giant red flag saying "Stay away from this person!"

Maybe that's overcompensation for missing all the red flags back then until the ulcer forced me to start seeing them. Like "As God is my witness, I'll never miss a red flag again!"

There's also the weirdness with my family. Because they kind of personify ignorance as opposed to malice. Like actually on the trip Saturday (which is where the picture of the tiger came from), my mother expressed both a sincere belief that other species deserve to exist as much as we do, anger about humans destroying other species, understanding and empathy for her neighbor who is an immigrant from Mexico, AND she also said some ignorant things she'd introjected from social messages about drug addiction, welfare recipients, and I don't want to repeat the specifics because it really really bothers me, but things about physical punishment for dogs and cats. Which I know that she doesn't mean to be hurtful and she really does love them. She just doesn't know any better.

Just like she really does love me and she didn't mean to hurt me. She just didn't know any better.

Meh. Who knows, right? Maybe my inability to understand and empathize with ignorance is some weird psychological transference thing where I'm taking my anger at my mother out on ignorant strangers. Or maybe it's some reaching for control. My own fallacy, but instead of believing in a "just world", my brain believes in "informed and emotionally intelligent humans who actually do know what they're doing and who are choosing to cause so much pain and destruction and loss."

Maybe it's easier to deal if I can be angry at humans.  Maybe I don't want to accept that it is completely and entirely a tragedy, and that there is no meaning and no hope, and that it's our own human failings that we have no control over that are driving us to destroy each other and all other living beings.

Because a thing that I know from dealing with my family: you can't fix that ignorance from the outside. You have no control over it. The ignorant person will not hear you and will not understand you and will not comprehend you, and there ain't shit you can do but watch the ignorance unfold.