#we're nondisordered actually!!

[theangstking]

yo what the fuck is this shit.

does anyone realize how. Not fucking okay this is?

I'm not even triggered rn I'm just mad and confused lmfao

oh yeah btw. what's happening here is, someone dug up our trigger list SOMEHOW. and is just genuinely sending us things from it. like...they literally copy pasted things from it.

does this count as anon hate???? fuckin, baby's first proper anon hate after How Many Years ig??? LMFAO???

this is mostly just confusing and funny more than anything?? I'm pissed off too sure but like. What??? The hell did they think they were going to accomplish???? there is not a name or face to this.

ohhhhh WEH WEH cry whine throw a fit some random fucking person on the internet that we don't even know the name of decided we're worth HARASSING. LMFAO???

[cocajimmycola]

(Replying)

Tbh that’s reassuring to hear

I get worried interacting with ppl when I don’t directly see their opinions on endo’s etc especially when they are- like y’all- a dx-ed or medically recognized system and stuff like that yk?

Double especially when I send ask’s yk?

Am happy :Dc

Go endo’s, we love you!! /p

yehahh i love endos 🤍🤍🤍both our partner systems are mixed origins and we're friends with a lot of em too. and yeah its hard to tell peoples opinions sometimes, however i am super pro endo and that probably wont be changing any time soon 👌👌

[interstellarsystem]

Endogenic Systems and Experiences in the Neurodivergent Community

We tend to stay mostly on the fringes of syscourse nowadays without directly interacting with it too often but I'm going to post this more broadly and less focused on our specific instance of this because community-wise I think it's important to talk about.

Endogenic and other non-traumagenic systems are so commonly excluded from so many neurodivergent-safe spaces where they would otherwise be able to gain knowledge about the disorders they might have, share experiences and coping strategies with peers, or at least have a sense of community that is so commonly valuable to disabled and/or neurodivergent people. In a lot of cases, even people who only support non-traumagenic systems get shoved out.

[Continued under the readmore as it's long.]

This obviously harms non-traumagenic systems, but I have to point out that when people sit there and say "we care about REAL disabled people!", I have to say.... Do you? Because if you did care about those with mental illness, physical disability or neurodivergence, you in my mind wouldn't exclude them based on something unrelated to the topic itself which might even be something as small as holding an opinion that other people get to be the judge of their own experiences. You can say that you care about "real" disabled people, but what about when a traumagenic DID system also has a tulpa that they consider just as valid and real as their alters? What about when a system labels themselves as quoigenic because in reality, you owe no one the knowledge that you are vulnerable and traumatised? What about when a system starts out as endogenic but gains so much trauma later on that they develop dissociative symptoms?

We're quoigenic because while yes we are diagnosed with DID:

DID does not have trauma in the diagnostic criteria so our diagnosis doesn't mean anything by way of origin. Nontraumagenic is not the same as nondisordered the same way that traumagenic isn't the same as disordered.

We cannot remember a time before we were plural so we cannot say with accuracy what our actual origin was.

We have headmates we consider to be from both traumagenic and endogenic origins and it feels unfair to pick one.

We don't owe anyone a quick little "hey, we have trauma!" flag on our pinned post which can easily paint us as a target. This is the exact reason we don't share our triggers online--it's not safe.

You don't owe anyone personal medical information including your diagnostic history, your trauma history or lack thereof, your current medications or how many times you've been in a hospital. That is your business and yours alone to decide who you share it with. It's downright dangerous to share some of it, especially so publically. So who is anyone online that clearly isn't your specific medical practitioner to decide whether your experiences are real enough to allow you into spaces meant for a usually completely unrelated thing? Why would someone holding the opinion that endogenic systems get to decide what labels they use be denied access to spaces just because they support people with differing beliefs and/or experiences?

If we as a system with multiple disabilities want to go into a space for people who are schizoaffective because we need others who won't immediately jump on the ableism train when discussing something we're diagnosed with that has so much stigma, should we be denied that just because we don't label our origin with a clear-cut "we are traumatized!!" label? Should we be denied access to spaces because we don't want to sit around and smile while parts of our system and other members of our community are called fake and evil and whatever else they come up with? It's so common in spaces for people with disabilities to be exclusive to traumagenic systems and people with an anti-endogenic mindset that people don't realise they're not only hurting the endogenic community, but literal chunks of their own community itself.

I can't even begin to understand the reason why.

Endogenic systems by just existing do not cause harm. They're not like a transphobe you would not be safe around by default of having a label. Not every nontraumagenic system is a saint but if you took any communtiy and called everyone in it the equivalent of an unproblematic holy angel, you'd be lying. People are bad in every community, some worse than others, but the nontraumagenic system community literally just wants to exist--and yes, sometimes a nontraumagenic system (or supporter of such) does have dissociative symptoms, or maybe they have autism, or maybe they're physically disabled. Should they be not allowed access just because of the way they chose to label their system, or their opinion of people picking their own labels for their personal identity?

What exactly is the reason they're so excluded everywhere? I'd try to assume that this level of exclusion (to the point of endos being on DNIs next to transphobes and racists) would mean there's some real harm being done on a community-wide scale, but even when looking for it there isn't any explanation we've been able to find. "They're fake" is all we seem to see which has no actual backing whatsoever. "They're harmful" is another but.. How? We might be looking in the wrong places, but we have never seen an actual explanation for how nontraumagenic systems cause harm as a community just by being themselves.

At this point, I have to wonder how many people who say "we care about real disabled people!" are just covering up their "we care about socially acceptable disabled people who I understand and/or do not find cringey" sentiment instead. Being neurodivergent should never be about fitting into tight little boxes--it's part of the whole point of having a community like this. You're not the majority, and that's okay. So why are we dividing the disabled community into boxes too?

Of course, this doesn't only apply to ND spaces. LGBT+ spaces are similar and even more divided from the concept of being a system that it makes even less sense to block nontraumagenic systems from entering the space. How does their system origin relate to their LGBT+ identity? Sometimes it can, but should a trans person be excluded from a trans space because they have a friend who is an endogenic system and they support them fully?

Overall, the main point is that it makes no sense whatsoever to be anti-endo in general, let alone so violently anti-endogenic system to the point where you hurt members of your own community due to it. Sometimes from something as simple as them supporting endogenics alone. Your safe spaces aren't actually safe if you exclude a nonharmful group who also belong in that space due to having a personal identity or opinion different to yours. If you want somewhere to be a safe, inclusive space, it should include everyone as long as letting those people in won't cause harm. People who are seeking to cause harm (racists, transphobes, etc) obviously do not belong in a safe space because they seek to harm others, thus making the space unsafe. But people who just want to be themselves without harming anyone should be included in your space if they fall under whatever it may be topic-wise. Even the "cringey" ones. Even the ones who don't quite make sense to you or have "contradicting" labels. Even the ones who use labels completely differently to the way you do. And even the ones who are uninformed or misinformed but trying their best to learn. Your safe space is not safe if it excludes those who do not follow your every single mindset and thought without any deviation.

[antiendovents]

(venting) i hate hate HATE the term traumagenic, and it sucks it gets uaed EVERYWHERE! we arent ANYTHING genic! we are just a system, an ACTUAL system and not one of those fucking roleplaying asshats! but i know calling ourself an actual system comes off as fakeclaimy to other actual systems! and saying disordered or CDD or OSDDID or whatever will make those roleplaying dumbasses think we are admitting defeat and just seperating ourselves from the ~nondisordered~ assholes! so idk what to fucking call ourself without letting those fuckasses win! and it fucking sucks! (end of vent) anyway, how are you?

nod, I kind of get what you mean. Personally I'm not a big fan of the term,, but I understand why people use it. Though I really wish we could just say we're a system and have it be assumed we're 'traumagenic' / have DID or OSDD instead of having to clarify we're not an ableist role player. And I get what you mean, I don't think it's admitting defeat as much as it's just trying to distinguish ourselves from them and push them away?? I guess? I don't know. It's just a way to make people know you're not an endo basically. If you don't like it, that's fine, if you like it or use it, that's also fine :3

Also we're fine, a little tired! Thank you for asking

[cambriancrew]

It's hilarious to me how some anti-endos will be like "You're telling your therapists they're abusive and wrong about you!" when our experience is that the therapists and psychiatrists who are actually cognizant of the science behind dissociative disorders and plurality are immensely supportive of endogenics and nondisordered systems.

And anti-endos are the ones throwing out the statements of support by Dr. Colin Ross and Dr. Richard Loewenstein because they've been abusive while handwaving away the abuse done by Dr. Onno van der Hart which was bad enough he got his license to practice stripped, while Ross and Loewenstein still practice.

And like, yes, we Crew did have one pastor/counselor who we feel was very wrong about us. But it wasn't because he thought we were disordered. It's because he insisted we had Multiple Personality Disorder 20+ years after the name had changed, insisted the diagnostic criteria from the DSM-V we mentioned were wrong, and insisted that we couldn't possibly be anything other than disordered or demon possessed because in Genesis "And God breathed into man and he became a living soul." Yet also we're made in the image of God and God is plural but whatever.

Point is, he was wrong because he was using outdated information and took Bible verses out of context.

Oh and he also thought, if we did have DID, that one of us was the "real" one who needed to get rid of the rest...

And. This line of thinking by anti-endos is funny because it wasn't that long ago that there was a slew of traumagenic systems with CDDs who were upset that their healthcare providers were NOT anti-endo...

So it seems to me that this idea that endogenics and nondisordered systems are getting upset at anti-endo healthcare providers (which, of course, do exist, unfortunately) just because they aren't "anti-science" (which, really, most of the bad ones ARE the anti-science ones) is just a wild assumption with little basis in reality.

This is, also, making the very large assumption that endogenics and nondisordered systems are in therapy at all. Yes, some of us are, many of us have issues unrelated to our plurality, some of us have issues that are complicated by our plurality, and some of us even have a CDD... but most aren't.

It's just so out of touch it's really funny to me.

[technicalqueer]

Coining Post !

SUNRISEQUEER

A blankqueer stance with the means to be accepting and positive while not being "loud" about it. A sunrise is also meaning that it's fresh, it's a new start, and what you do is what you do. Basically, it's an accepting identity that focuses on your right to choose what to believe in, to accept others even if they don't follow your exact beliefs, and to be positive or open-minded about any beliefs you're unsure of or don't identify with.

[IMAGE ID: A flag with 7 stripes in symmetrical order(color order pastel yellow, white, pastel salmon, light grey, pastel salmon, white, pastel yellow.) There is a darker yellow "cloud-like" border on the yellow stripes. In the middle of the flag is a light yellow sun with orange lines surrounding it.](I've never done an image ID, hopefully that makes sense!)

Disclaimer: If this term has already been used, consider this a separate or alt coin depending on the other label's belief sets!

Belief sets under the cut!

The basic premise of sunrisequeer is to be accepting and positive. As I mentioned, the sunrise is a quote-unquote "softer" version of the sun, which could be used to describe a very loud, bright kind of positivity. Though anyone who is for the things sunrisequeer is for can use the term, I coined this for myself mainly, as I'm an accepting person, but I'm also pretty quiet about it in most cases. Hence why it's not sunqueer, it's sunrisequeer. And since sunrises indicate the beginning of something new, and are always different, it reflects the different thoughts and stances people may take up, and being willing to see things in a new light, even if you may not change your beliefs.

Sunrisequeer is PRO:

- All transid identities, including the "controversial" identities such as transharmful.

- MUDs/MUSs

- Paraphilia, disordered or nondisordered

- Pro-Fiction / Creative Freedom / Proshipping / What-Have-You under this stance

- The right to choose(this could be transitioning, recovering, indulging in things, and anything else that is a personal option that you can choose to do or not do.)

- Basically everything that isn't what we're against.

Sunrisequeer is NEUTRAL on:

- Contact stances(the coiner is comp-c, which for him means that he's anti-c harmful paraphilias that are illegally indulged in, but pro-c for everything else. For example, if a pro-c pedo was hurting actual kids, I'd be against it. But if that pedo was using consensual age play with their partner to safely ensure they weren't hurting an actual child with their fantasies and such, I'd be okay with it. Does that make sense? Hopefully.) Regardless, contact stances are entirely up to person-to-person, and this goes into the right to choose what to believe for it. Which people who are sunrisequeer are all for. Therefore, we don't have a set contact stance and are supportive of whatever you choose to believe in on the topic.

- Discourse. It's a touchy subject, and it's something that doesn't matter what you choose for it to believe in, as long as you keep your mind open and supportive to those who believe otherwise

- "Harmful" blankqueer Identities(such as LSDqueer, Basedqueer, etc.) and xenosatanism. These things are up to what people believe in overall. These types of labels to put on yourself are seen as controversial, much like controversial transIDs. Similar to how sunrisequeer thinks about contact stances, it believes in the right to choose to depend upon what you think of these things, and what you feel is your beliefs about them.

Sunrisequeer is AGAINST:

- Bigotry of any kind

- Harassment that isn't in self defense(and doesn't go too far when in self defense)

- Closed-minded thoughts on things! Even if you may feel one way towards what is listen, what matters is that you're willing to accept people have other opinions than yours, and to not be negative about it.

[luxraysyscourse]

My experience on both sides of syscourse.

Pre syscourse/context

When I realized I was a system, I did hide it for years. I realized about 11 when I saw systems online and realized I personally related to a lot of their experiences. Especially the way they acted, the way they would interact with themselves. For years, I believed everyone had other 'people' or thought processes not of their own. That they could disappear when they were stressed. I know now that's not true, and only in 2020 did I really start getting into syscourse.

Pro Endo

I was pro endo for a few years, and I was a pretty vocal person about it. I was Pro Everything that wasn't illegal, and I was under the impression that as a concept it was harmless. But, being in the community I saw alot of flaws, I saw toxicity within the community. I was fakeclaimed and as a system we labeled ourselves as simply quoigenic and willogenic, as a way to repress our truama, with many people at the time insisting we were more than that, many saying we were "pokegenic" and "autigenic", and even some saying we were "Hospigenic" due to our childhood in the hospital. This made us sot ourselves down and look at ourselves and genuinely question "What are we". We witnessed our friends attempt con convince our singlet friends they were systems, our traumagenic friends that they weren't truamagenic. We personally saw people in our servers try and dox the truamagenic systems who didn't adopt labels, purely because of that. It was something that concerned us. After year we switched our veiw. We decided we didn't want to be associated with such a community, one that attempted for force labels onto people, so we switched our veiw.

Endo neutral

In mid 2021 I moved to a center, We didn't want to associate with the endogenic community, but didn't hate them, overall this was a nice place, it wasn't horrid. But again, similar issues arose, people within it constantly escalated arguments on the front of being an unbiased party. I noticed many many of them tended to circulate harmful rhetoric, especially against POC who spoke against them as a person if they happened to be a system , they went after them as people, their race, and things they held dear. This community was the shortest in terms of associating with it. Something That was unique to it was exactly how they dealt wit syscourse, they had contradictory opinions, many times, one example being endo neutral but anti nondisordered. I left after 6 months, it was full of people hopping between " I don't touch syscourse" and doing it untagged in 3 minutes, honestly it was the most stressful.

Anti Endo

We personally did a bit more research, realizing alot of things, but also again, wanted to no associate with either while staying in the syscourse circles, of course they had their issues, but we noticed that they would, rather than encourage it as the previous had, many shut it down when they could. I found friends here, who actually protected me, though many we're relentless. It made it harder to find spaces in the community where we could talk peacefully about our day-day life without being met with comments about our stance or hatred in our inbox, but out of that on discords, again, they were nice, unlike pro and neu who'd force syscourse onto you, antis encourage taking breaks. Now we acknowledge it does have its issues; being very adamant and unable to back down, I'll admit we're guilty of this as well. Being in this community has made us feel safer. Again, though, an issue is here, anti self diagnosis runs rampant, along with the idea you know exactly who you are. When we realized we were mixed, we had a few anons yell at us for "race faking".

Conclusion

As an entity, the syscourse community is foul. Racism, ablism, doxxing, toxicity, and misrepresentation of arguments all run rampant on many sides of it. The pros and neu encourage ignoring your own health in order to argue your own existence. The anti has an issue of not backing down. The pros has a long history of doxxing and targeting of PoC. The neutrals use personal attacks as arguments. Overall, it's a raging battlefield of counter and cross attacks, horrible in-fighting and general ignoring and discarding of peoples boundaries to go after them. All sides have issues you must work on in order to collectively build cooperation on your points before as a whole we can actually get somewhere with this on-going discussion.

Thank you for reading and taking the time, please check me out, im trying my best, i have a few awareness posts, and i think im.worth mentioning, we mostly wrote this at 4am as we couldn't sleep due to our room being 36°f (alot lower outside) so punctuation, spelling, and grammar wont be 100%

[sophieinwonderland]

I don't know if youre the best to ask about this but, are there any records of the movement made to try and demedicalize DID? We have heard that something happened online with nondisordered systems trying to demedicalize it because they thought it was about them not recognizing that its a different experience but that stuff isnt talked about on pro endo blogs so I just was looking for someone to talk about it who *wasnt* using that as an argument against endogenic systems

A bit. I'm not sure how far this actually got but there were some who were advocating this.

The reason this doesn't get brought up is because it's largely ancient history. We're talking about a group who pushed this before "endogenic systems" was part of anyone's vocabulary, before the publication of the DSM-5, even before Tumblr was a thing.

I also think that it's important to contextualize this in the time period, because this came came at a time when multiplicity was treated as inherently pathological. Under the DSM-5, there's a criterion that a disorder can only be a disorder if it causes clinically significant distress or impairment. This criterion wasn't in the DSM-IV though, creating an impression that all multiplicity was a mental disorder.

While trying to remove DID from the DSM was too far, I really don't think that sort of movement would have existed under the DSM-5 criteria. In my opinion, it was a direct response to what people felt was pathologizing their experiences.

[quoigenicfromhell]

Just wanted to pop in and send warm thoughts your way! Endogenic and nondisordered systems exist and will always deserve space to be themselves regardless of how many people fakeclaim or doubt them. I'm sure you guys already know that but sometimes it's nice to hear someone else say it, especially when there's always so much hate online. Hope you guys are doing okay. - Sunflower

Yeah. We're lucky in that we're very secure in the fact that we're plural, but we've had a long time to get to that point and access to a supportive community outside of all of this. It's still hurtful to see people ponder what we 'actually' are, and dehumanize us as individuals casually as though that's a totally normal and not fucked up opinion to have (and the thing is, it is a 'normalized' opinion--the vast majority of people will not see us as real individuals, and we are absolutely painfully aware of that at all times). It pains me more when I know this discourse is inescapable for some younger/newer plurals because they haven't found a solid, supportive community yet. It's hard enough being plural in an entire world that is primed to reject you as a person; it is insanely isolating to also have your existence constantly debated and treated like a 'controversial' opinion in your peer group on top of that. I cannot imagine being the age I was when our Collective became selves-aware in 2024, and I don't envy anyone going through this.

[cringeandproudx3]

dude. your an embarrassment to real systems. mixed origins and endos not real, it's ableism and appropriation. It was literally coined on tiktok. Also you can't make headmates, that's literally racist. and fictives are not a thing that's delusionil. Also, the creator of that song Mezmeriser is probably not liking that you have a ""fictive"" of them.

TW TW this stupid ass ask is anti endo and ableist Also swearing in my answer bc I do that⚠️⚠️⚠️

GUYS GUYS!! I got my first anon hate!! Are you proud of me??

Anyways, let's unpack how fucking wrong this is.

First of all, you're* fucking cry Abt it whiny bitch

Second, we're not an embarrassment to real systems because we are a real system.

Third, mixed origins and endos are real! It's not ableism, we literally are disabled. We're physically disabled, which I'd prefer to not dump on that since it's a bit personal to some of us including me, and we're neurodivergent. It's also not ableism because it's not hurting other disabled people; we're not claiming to have a disorder when we dont. Which, we don't btw, we're a nondisordered system. Also not appropriating, bc wtf are we appropriating exactly?? NOTHING.

Fourth, the term "endogenic system" wasn't coined on tiktok at all. C'mon, you're embarrassing other anti endos, I actually kinda feel bad for them. Surface level knowledge.

Fifth, you can make headmates, and how tf is that racist?? I assume you're talking Abt the age old "tulpamancy is appropriation!!" Panic, but we don't even have tulpas.. (also tulpamancy and tulpagenic systems ARENT appropriative or racist??) Our few created headmates were made utilizing other ways.

Sixth, fictives are real?? Even other anti endos know this, bitch. Also okay okay, being blatantly ableist after accusing us of being ableist, nice approach dumbass! Literally, fictives arent inherently delusional, delusional should not be used as an insult either because there is nothing wrong with being delusional!!!!

Seventh, satsuki/32ki doesn't know who the fuck we are, who Mezku is, and probably never will because the world is big. He also probably doesn't even know about/that much about plurality at all, and he certainly doesn't give a shit that some random Internet bitch discreetly has a fictive from their MASSIVELY POPULAR song. Also, your wording sucks, because Mezku isn't a fictive of Satsuki himself, zris a fictive of Miku from the song.

Tldr; this fucker doesn't even know shit about plurality AT ALL, not just endogenic plurality, is ableist (intentionally or not), a hypocrite, and is probably an embarrassment to anti endos as well. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk!

Ares 💿

[anendoandfriendo]

Hey, to the account that sent us that ask: we see you and will try to get a more comprehensible answer put together over the weekend once our shift is over (we're on break currently) but we want you and anyone else who's curious about "functional multiplicity is oppressive too" to ask these sorts of questions:

Functional? Compared to whom?

To what end? What is the definition of "functional" when we place the word into the context the the society we live in?

Who, or what, actually benefits from the answer's to the above two questions?

We find "disordered" and "nondisordered" (and so, too, the idea of functional multiplicity) to be useful concepts insofar as getting specific kinds of help or denoting specific plural experiences within certain kinds of social situations (living in a late capitalistic society that pathologizes anything deviant from the norm that won't benefit it).

If we want to imagine a better world, though, we do need to imagine a better world where the DSM, the ICD, psychiatry & psychology, and similar do not have sole reign over what is considered a "valid" experience.

If we don't do that and simply rely on the DSM and ICD always 100% of the time, we'll just be oppressing ourselves in a DIFFERENT way.

@anti-psych-pro-endo is a blog you can send questions to (we don't run that blog but some of our friends do who would be able to make this more comprehensible) in the context of plurality. We don't know this account personally but we see @/bioethicists also has some general anti-psychiatry stuff they say sometimes that we like.

[fagsystem]

"Plural people have rights, disabled people don’t." how do plural people have more rights than disabled people? gen question, bc the ableism that falls onto did/osdd havers also (more often than not) falls onto nondisordered plurals because to most of society, we're all mentally ill.

Context

You are not actually mentally ill though.

That's like saying 'people with synesthesia don't have rights because people think we're psychotic!'

All of the social stigma surrounding DID/OSDD is based on the "OMG MENTALLY ILL IS DANGEROUS!!! THEY'RE CRAZY!!!!" It is based on the fact that we are mentally ill, not 'percieved as'. Anyone can be percieved as mentally ill, that does not suddenly mean you are experiencing oppression on the basis of a mental illness you do not have.

If your entire basis of what disability rights is is social stigma and people being mean, you are the exact reason why we need to centre disability rights in the conversation around the McLean hospital video and not 'plural rights'. That video was ableist and spread ableism (including systemic ableism that prevents us from accessing treatment) against a group of mentally ill people. Just because the disorders it was speaking about were DID/OSDD does not suddenly make it different to literally any other disorder, and I am sick and tired of people demedicalising the conversation surrounding ableism we experience to be 'inclusive' of a group of people who do not have our disorders (and therefore have privilege over us).

It is not about you. This, things like that, are not about you. It is about ableism, which you do not face. You cannot just say 'I experience ableism on the basis of this thing about me that is not a disorder' that's fucking ridiculous actually.

This is a vent post. Feel free to reply but do not expect a well formulated response.

If you are blocked DNI. Do not take a screenshot of my post and respond to it.

[anendoandfriendo]

There will ALWAYS be disabled people in society. Alas, in an ideal world, we're not certain that we still would be. Or something like that.

Not all plurality is DID or OSDD-1 in the first place. So our plurality is already nondisordered, but it inherently falls outside of the DSM and ICD anyways.

We consider our autism, which does or can technically fall under the DSM or ICD, to be an enorder (self/selves label for nondisordered and even advantageous phenotype of something considered a disorder; we don't care where this term itself came from because academic communities have discussed this to some degree lol).

Our ADHD/amism is kind of a Non-Thing and we know they're different for SOME folks but we do genuinely wonder if there are some cases where autism and adhd/amism are two different phenotypes to the same thing. Then we fucking lose our keys or forget where they are, because of ADHD/amism and a headmate pings our current fronter about that. Problem solved. The disabling/disorder part of our ADHD/amism is the fucking ADHD tax and it would be neutral in an ideal world (not disabling, but not like adaptive either lol).

This is all of course on a brainbody level considering we lumped our plurality itself in here (if only because we hate societal sysmedicalism and wanted to tackle Certain Assumptions around that). For the autism and amism there are also headmate-specific things even after taking that into consideration. 🖤 is definitely disabled by autism in a way Shalltear and Blossom are not. Buttercup doesn't exactly give two flying fucks and is probably just fine with ADHD/amism, and probably leans more into calling it amism than ADHD because of it.

WDK, we mean, as another example of that, but woth autism: Deulara probably also doesn't fall under the enorder/disorder dichotomy in the first place and is just off to the side doing whatever. Then we have Xero, who, by all means would also fall outside of the dichotomy more because xe'dprobably have an enordisorder/isodisorder if xe actually bothered to fucking front once in awhile. Instead xe attends to a small library in our headspace that we suspect is actually also xer bedroom. Where does xe sleep. We don't know that either. But xe's a fictive of a thing where eye contact was xer whole gig and being in an autistic brainbody means they're not really sure how to handle the external world (but the few times xe has were at least an emotional boon for us sksksksk).

mental disabilities count btw

[twitchystitchwitch]

We have unanimously decided we prefer the term network over system, I know it is a bit confusing. But... our experiences with plurality are incredibly odd. I the host have been dealing with very clear dissociation since I was a very small child, but it was always brushed away as depression. Now that I look back though, there are a certain emotional states that I have no recollections of. Like I knew there were time periods in my life I didn't remember, but everyone always got frustrated with me growing up when I said I didn't remember what happened during meltdowns or panic attacks, or when I was mad or scared. To an extent, I know that is pretty universal. But where it isn't universal is that in those states I lose complete control, and eventually awareness. Early on it feels like someone locked me in a little glass room in my head so I scream and beg for it to stop but physically I am not in control. Then, I lose awareness. I may have very vague memories of certain parts, but I can't remember what started it, or what eventually helped it stop. For years I struggled to get therapists to understand that I can't really keep a log of what causes my meltdowns and panic attacks because I don't actually know most of the time. It just suddenly happens. I think at some point, they were just standard meltdowns and panic attacks, but the way I was constantly punished for them made me think I couldn't possibly be the one doing those things because I didn't want to. And now, it is someone else. They both respond to different names, and they have entirely different personalities. We've established a shaky system of communication, and I know when they are ready they will reach out more. But then there are the headmates that first made us realize we were plural. None of them can front, even if I am having a depersonalization episode. But they are there, they are interested in the world, and when possible we work together so they can experience the world through me. Having them around has actually helped with communication between me and the set of headmates that do front and cause memory issues. Rei and Tyrann have helped take messages and pass them back to me, when I can't remember. And Tyrann's personality and demeanor vibe much better with one of the others, so for the first time in our collective lives they have someone who they can relate to easily. It is such a strange experience, and we really aren't sure how to properly talk about it. Because a few of the headmates that do have free communication with me I would consider traumagenic. Wolf says he only stuck around because he saw how isolated I was and how horrific the bullying Inwas going through were, and now he just likes being here. Rei morphed from a character into a headmate because he related to my struggles with my health and depersonalization issues. So I don't know if I would say that part of the network is entirely endogenic. Nondisordered, definitely, but not endogenic. But it feels wrong to call the other part of the network disordered, because they want to be people too and they want to communicate. We're just all having some trouble agreeing on how we want to do that. I guess we're just wondering if anyone else experiences this too, or anything similar

[antiendovents]

What's hysterical (/sarcastic) about this Sophie thing is she's clearly got a weird persecution fantasy, continuously going on and on about "marginalized groups" referring to endos as if systems are some kind of oppressor class, meanwhile in the real world we're the ones who are demonized and stigmatized, who lose jobs and homes and friends and partners because of an uncontrollable trauma disorder. And it's baffling to me how she doesnt understand that intentionally invading the spaces of disordered people as someone whos alleged plurality is nondisordered and healthy makes her a bad person. It's like if I as an able bodied person went to a paraplegic support group and started saying they're bigoted for excluding me because I experience sitting down too, and that id turn their friends and families against them for it. That would be batshit, she'd immediately be shunned for rampant and overt ableism, and it's basically the same thing.

(note in case of confusing word formatting: I don't say "traumagenic" to refer to systems, but do say endogenic to refer to endos. it's silly to treat the two concepts as if they have equal validity by using fancy sounding made up matching terms, endos can have their silly word, and systems can be systems.)

yeah,, she acts as if endos are oppressed but in reality they are part of the problem, they are the ones who are contributing to the oppression and persecution of actual systems. They will never understand the struggle of being an actual system, but they act like they do. They act like they're suddenly a victim because they.. aren't traumatized? What??? It makes no sense.

[the-mechanisms-system]

This seems fun but we dont have enough followers/engagement to actually get asks so! We will just. Answer them lol. (Hnder the cut because it got a little long... whoopsies

1) We do! Our system name (our url) was based on a hyperfixation we shared

2) Most of us chose our names from the existing namehoard we shared when we thought we were a singlet. One of us had to ask around for name suggestions because it didnt vibe with any of the ones we already had stored away

3) Nope!! We're all some form of trans and none of us are cool with the body's deadname. Surprisingly, none of us go by the name most people know us by either. We chose it when we first realized we were trans, but none of us go by that name individually, so it's kind of a collective name for all of us since nobody irl knows we're plural and that's the name they know us by.

4) Probably me lmao. I mean. Transmasc femboy named Elliott? Yeah.

5) Either Vindemiator, Glitch, or Roach. All kind of odd names.

6) T and I are pretty close to the body's age, C and S are older by at least 5 years, Riles is about 5?? Glitch and Vin dont really have ages, I think P is a little younger than the body's age, and I have no idea for R and Cr.

7) Yeah! Vin and Glitch don't really have ages since one is immortal and the other is an android.

8) Probably Vin. We dont know his age but hes probably super old, being immortal and all.

9) Not as far as we know!

10) Ours wants to be treated like a kid. They dont really have the emotional capacity for handling any sort of adult things/responsibilities.

11) We're all aroacespec, but some of us are oriented aroace and have more interest in romance. Mostly me. But we're all mlm/nblm if we're oriented aroace.

12) We're all either male or nb or both!

13) I do!! Also C uses one set of neos and Glitch uses it/its exclusively.

14) Yep! Collectively transmasc and aroace.

15) Yeah! None of us identify with the body's sex, so no matter who you ask, we're all some flavor of trans, so the body is too.

16) I'd say Glitch, since it's an android.

17) C and Vin might, I'm not sure. Neither of them have them all the time, but I think they might sometimes??

18) Nope

19) Glitch thinks fronting is weird because its made of metal and plastic and the body is. Not. I think the weirdest part is being unable to interact with nature as much as I want to since we're bodily disabled. S would probably say its being unable to use ~magic~ that they have in headspace (its literally just fancy fire they can make colorful fire in their hand.)

20) I think most of us could qualify as nonhuman in some way shape or form.

21) Nope! Weve only got 2 (maybe 3) and they're from different sources.

22) Mostly disconnected. Nobody has exomemories (except maybe Vin??), and their personalities are similar to source, and Vin and R go by the same names as their source, but their source isnt like. Them. They feel Some connection, but not Entirely.

23) None of them are very weird tbh, maybe R? Since his source is just a Weird piece of media /pos (The Passenger IF)

24) Yeah! Vin and T are in a relationship. T isnt an introject at all

25) Kind of? Vin is from an AU that was made by the creator of the media, so that's a little non canon, and then some of his memories are connected to daydreams weve had about that AU.

26) Nope! Fakeclaiming has a very negative effect on us since we doubt a lot anyway and we're nondisordered so we tend to stay Far away from it.

27) Also a no. When we thought we were a singlet we tried to make a created system, so we were already pro-endo then, since we'd have been pretty hypocritical if we werent.

28) Idk, I guess just that they're denying the personhood of a lot of people when they say endos aren't systems? I think anti endos that fakeclaim especially think that endos are just singlets, so when they fakeclaim the only person they're hurting is the "singlet" behind the account, but endo headmates are real and there and they're essentially telling those headmates that they arent real or they aren't people, which can really hurt.

29) We're all very solidly pro-endo. We're pretty sure we're at least partially traumagenic, but theres a fair chance that were partially endo too, and even if we arent, we're still 100% supportive of systems who are.

30) Harmful. Its not a fun debate and it's not something to "believe in" or not and it's not just an opinion-- what you're debating is the existence and personhood of real people (not directed at op or anyone specific.) We experience this type of debate over our existence and rights enough because we're trans, so we know how exhausting and painful it can be to hear other people treat your existence as a debate.

31) C!! Xe's really cool. I'm fond of everybody in the system but C is who I interact with most and he takes over sometimes when I'm in a stressful situation.

32) Also C. I mean c'mon, xe's a punk metalhead anarchist who puts absolutely no value on conformity and takes pride in being our various forms of Weird (trans, aroace, gay, disabled, plural, NPD, etc).

33) Vin and T. Nobody knows wtf that relationship is, including them lmao. It's not romantic but it's not platonic and maybe it's a QPR or maybe it's not??? It's v funny. Also we maybe have another fictive that's in some kind of situationship with C but we're not sure if hes actually part of the system or if hes a daydream C has sometimes when xe fronts???

34) I love it. My headmates are like a found family to me. Plus it's so much less lonely than when we thought we were a singlet, even though we have a really hard time talking to each other.

35) Painting!! I love painting and I'm really really good at it in headspace but I'm really terrible at it outside of headspace lmao. Also gardening! Comes with the territory of being whatever the fuck I am (elf?? Faerie?? Idk). And Mitski! Honestly most of my music actually. My music taste is a lot softer(??) than most of the others.

system ask game!

any systems of any origins may reblog this :]

name asks

1. do you have a collective name? how was it chosen?

2. how do new system members choose their names?

3. are there any system members who identify with the body’s name?

4. which system member has the most stereotypical name?

5. which system member has the weirdest name?

age asks

6. how does age work for your system’s members?

7. does your system have ageless system members?

8. who is the oldest system member? how old are they?

9. does your system have system members who age slide or age regress?

10. if you have them, do your system’s littles want to be treated like children or adults?

queer asks

11. do system members tend to have similar sexualities, or are they different for each member?

12. does your system have more male, female, or nonbinary system members? is there any overlap between those?

13. do any system member use xenogenders or neopronouns?

14. does your system collectively identify as anything? if so, what?

15. do you& consider the body to be transgender?

nonhuman asks

16. what system member is the strangest species?

17. do any system members have wings?

18. does your system have any animal system members?

19. what is the weirdest part about being a nonhuman system member?

20. is the majority of your system human or nonhuman?

introject asks

21. do you have multiple system members from one source?

22. are most of your system’s introjects connected to their source? disconnected from their source?

23. what is the weirdest source that an introject in your system has?

24. are any of your system’s introjects in relationships with other system members? is their partner(s) an introject from the same source? different source?

25. do any of your system’s introjects have non-canon source memories?

syscourse asks

26. do you engage in syscourse?

27. were you previously anti-endo?

28. if you could tell all anti-endos one thing, what would you tell them?

29. does your system have a collective opinion on syscourse, or does it vary?

30. do you think that syscourse is more helpful or harmful?

asks for the current fronter

31. who is your favorite member in the system? (alternatively, who are you closest to?)

32. which system member has the most based takes?

33. what is the funniest piece of system drama?

34. do you enjoy being part of a system?

35. what’s something you like that no one else in the system likes?