#we got Annabeth character development

[creative-hanyou-girl]

PJO SPOILERS!!!!!!!!

ALSO SHOUT OUT TO GROVER FOR BEING A CONNIVING AND SNEAKY LITTLE DETECTIVE THIS EPISODE AND BUTTERING UP ARES TO GET MORE INFORMATION OUTTA HIM!!!! YOU ARE THE GOAT; THE TRUE MVP OF OUR HEARTS, G-MAN!!!!!!!!🐐🐐🐐❤❤❤

[valhallavalgrace]

How are you adjusting to the whole Norse mythology situation?

LEO: I’ve mostly been bugging some of the older einherjar, and Hunding, a little bit, to figure this place out. Do you know how cool it is that some people have been here since the industrial revolution?? There's no way that I'm the first of my dad's kids to make it here. I just don't know who to talk to about it.

((Leo's coping mechanism re: Norse mythology is just hating himself more bc of course he doesn't belong in his own afterlife. but he won't admit that to anyone bc he doesn't know who can be vulnerable with.))

prev ask

[nerdyfangirlmel]

You know Percy and Annabeth have a lot more room to grow in their relationship when 12 year old Percy leaves Annabeth with a root stuck to her leg while 17 year old Percy let’s himself get pulled down into Tartarus with her when she’s got webs stuck to her leg.

[aroaceleovaldez]

I was reading a post about CoTG and I realized: Rick has seemingly started to write every character pairing with the exact same dynamic, and he's not good at writing that dynamic and it doesn't make sense for 90% of the characters he writes it for.

It's that very specific dynamic of one half of the pair who is almost aggressive to the other party - "teasing" them constantly/insulting them, affectionately punching/judo flipping/maiming/etc, seemingly almost always exasperated with the other - and said other party usually just accepts this treatment or blanketly views it fondly, and may generally be framed as more incompetent than their partner and a little bit of a doormat (particularly relating to being insulted/teased/etc by their partner).

We start seeing this dynamic in HoO with Percy and Annabeth, as a sort of semi-inconsistent twist on their rivals-to-friends-to-lovers dynamic from the first series. Then the dynamic pattern develops further with Leo and Calypso. Then Magnus and Alex. Then Nico and Will, particularly in TSATS. And now in CoTG, it's Percy and Annabeth again but even more in this direction.

I know people have talked about Nico and Will's relationship over the series rapidly being shoehorned into Percabeth Two™, and it's extremely apparent in TSATS that Rick's doing it on purpose (including directly quoting Percabeth scenes but minorly tweaking them to be Solangelo). But recognizing it as an overarching trend in Rick's later books honestly reminds me a lot of how Rick started trying to apply the "Percy Formula" so-to-speak to nearly every protagonist in HoO (and then try to replicate similar character archetypes with Magnus and Apollo's narrations - moreso Magnus in being jaded and sarcastic, very much trying to be first series Percy. He only sounds unique because Rick failed at making him Percy 2. Apollo is more akin to later-series Percy characterization of being goofy and incompetent. Apollo [and Zeus] even got retconned to give Apollo a more similar backstory to Percy's). Rick seems to have decided that he thinks the audience wants this specific dynamic but 10 times over, except he's not good at writing it the first time because it's a bastardization of the time he did a different thing okay.

And Rick also seems aware of that too! Because he retconned Calypso and Leo at the end of TOA, probably because he realized how absolutely awful it was reading when they were written with that dynamic of Calypso just functionally hating Leo and constantly being aggressive towards him! The only time Rick's actually made the dynamic even semi-successful was with Magnus and Alex, because it actually fits within their characters, their dynamics with each other, and their environment. Alex beheading Magnus on the regular works out fine because there are no repercussions to that in Valhalla, Magnus will be fine, so it does genuinely come off as humorous. And Alex has been effectively established to be abrasive at times but have her genuine feelings shine through regularly, and that meshes well with Magnus' jaded-and-aloof-but-quietly-very-empathetic character. And Magnus has been established to, yes, not be great at combat, particularly compared to Alex. They are the only time that flavor of dynamic in that form was effective and cohesive.

Percabeth is no longer rivals-to-friends-to-lovers badasses on equal levels with shaky pasts who finally found some form of permanence with one another. Now it's super smart doting and affectionately aggressive girlfriend and her silly goofy 50%-of-the-time incompetent boyfriend who she judo flips/pushes off cliffs/etc - but affectionately~! Solangelo is trying to riff off of the early series "Poseidon & Athena are enemies" dynamic that Percabeth had but with Apollo & Hades being "opposites" but learning to accept each other, except it ends up with Will just coming off as a huge asshole and Nico being retconned to a complete doormat about it - when prior to that those characterizations would be completely contrary to their established characters (even just from TOA!). Calypso in HoO gets retconned from her PJO characterization to being snooty and aggressive, and Leo's false persona gets merged into his just normal personality except he just also becomes a doormat but more goofy than Nico with occasional haha-dark/depression-humor! Which Nico also got. Which was also a bastardized Percy trait that got redistributed.

It's exhausting. Rick write more than one relationship dynamic you can do it I promise

[justanisabelakinnie]

YES TYSM!!!

Does Percy Jackson like women

Percy Jackson (Novel Series, 2010)

Explain your reasoning in the tags!

[emma-o-yt]

Rick Riordan's problematic age gaps

Apparently reddit hates criticism because this got removed from there after a few minutes, maybe I can get it back up...anyways.

The age of consent in Texas is 17, Texas is where Rick lived (according to wikipedia) up until 2013. And yet...here we are.

Where do I even begin with this bullf*ckery? How about the most egregious of all?

Luke and Annabeth

We have two lines confirming their mutual feelings, one from The Demigod Diaries:

"Overtime, Annabeth developed a crush on Luke. As Annabeth got older, Luke developed feelings for her, too."

Mark of Athena (from her conversation with Venus):

"First there was Luke Castellan, her first crush, who had seen her only as a little sister; then he’d turned evil and decided he liked her—right before he died."

Now let me remind you, Annabeth and Luke have a seven year age difference, they knew each other at 7 and 14. By the time he died, Annabeth was just 16, while he was 23. And it's implied he begun returning her feelings a little before he asked her to run away, perhaps when she was 14. He's paralleled with Percy as Annabeth is his string in the river styx. He asks Annabeth explicitly if she loved him romantically (and she denies because Percy is there).

It's disgustingly inappropriate but at the very least they don't end up together...as for when they do...

Sadie Kane and Anubis

When it comes to immortal romance, I usually go for coded age. Anubis is thousands of years old but is mentally and physically 16, which is fine and dandy except for the fact that Sadie is 12. What do you want me to say except Rick is disgusting for promoting this.

Speaking of extreme age gaps:

Calypso and Leo

When you have a philosophy that every character must end up in a relationship, you run out of sensical options to pair up. Now, I'm a Caleo hater mainly because of how it retconned PJO and also because they are very toxic.

Now hold on, doesn't Caleo fall into coded age? Calypso is 15/16 and Leo is 15, so it's A okay! I suppose, if it wasn't for Calypso's past loves.

Odysseus, he had a wife and a son who was 20 years old in his final year on Ogygia, he is well into adult age. She also mentions the privateer Francis Drake and his wife Elizabeth, he was 45 when he married her.

If your defence is that she's actually thousands of years old, then that must also apply to Caleo. You cannot have it both ways.

Hazel and Frank

It's not that bad but it's necessary to mention for the point I will be making.

The timeline is messed up but I think they're 13 and 16 and meet at 12-15. I mean, come on.

Misogyny and Racism

What do these have in common? Well in 3/4 or 4/4, the younger one is female. In 2/4 or 3/4, the younger one is a person of colour.

Remember Nico? His crush on Percy as revealed in HoH? Well in MoA, there's a cheeky little red herring that happens a bit before Annabeth's talk with Venus (where it is revealed that Luke liked Annnabeth back). She wonders if Nico had a crush on her, but denounces him as too young. Now, Nico's age is inconsistent, I am unsure of his gap with Annabeth but I do know his gap with Percy. It's 3 years 5 months in PJO and 2 years 5 months in HoO (the series we are currently in).

So in RR's messed up mind, a white boy having a relationship with someone 2 to less than 4 years his senior is inappropriate. But a black tween girl dating someone 3 years her senior is just fine, a 12 year old biracial black girl dating a 16 year old is daijoubu, a 15 year old mestizo Latino boy dating an elderly woman is relationship goals, or the reverse a 15 year old girl dating middle aged men is a tragic romance and a 12 year old girl having mutual feelings with a 19 year old man is a "love story for the ages"!

The tv adaptation is so infuriating for this, they made Annabeth black, a lot of the changes they made came off as micro aggressions but especially her relationship with Luke. It's reduced to Luke simping for Annabeth behind her back and it's even worse because you can visibly see how large their age gap is. Heck, Charlie Bushnell and Leah Jeffries have a smaller age gap than book Luke and Annabeth.

Adultification is a huge real life issue. Children of colour and especially female children of colour are seen as less innocent than their white counterparts. Rick, who is dedicated to inclusivity should've known better than to include these illegal relationships. Stans will try and make excuses but it's there, deal with it.

As a black teenage girl who has been a fan of Rick's work for 12 years, I am disappointed.

[ampresandian]

Okay so season 1 was definitely Percy's story like between the flashbacks and his development over the quest The Lightning Thief is Percy's Story. The whole series is Percy's story but the way they produced the first season of the show is especially Percy's, and I need them to continue to develop this in the rest of the seasons.

Season 2, Sea of Monsters, should definitely be Annabeth's. Percy (and the readers) get to know her better--she opens up to him about her past, not just introducing him to the world they share (the Olympians) but to Her World and How it Got to Be that Way. We see more of how who Percy is impacts her (esp with Tyson), and she takes on a lot of responsibility for saving their quest. Unlike the Arch or Crusty, Annabeth is the one that saves them from Circe and takes on Polyphemus one on one.

Season 3 I think is Thalia's. It's the only chance we really have, as readers, to get to know her--we're thrown into her relationship with Percy at the beginning of the book, after our only introduction to her being her saying her name at the end of som, but we travel with her on this quest, and I think flashbacks, etc. in this season should be about her. It's the best way to let the audience get to know her, and I think we need to get to know her to understand her choice at the end (and to be excited when we see her again later). We need that her sudden disappearance at the end, when she leaves without saying goodbye and just as suddenly as she appeared she's gone, to hurt and to feel wrong and making her the Character is the way to do that imo.

Botl in season 4 I think is tricky at first glance (esp since we've given Annabeth som already) but tbh it needs to be Grover's. Flashbacks can be about his time in schools as a protector, and his time searching for Pan. Grover's development is kind of sudden in this story, but I think showing him when he's younger and like as he's been off Doing Things it would be more dramatic and honestly Grover is a fantastic character that Rick seems to forget about/ignore a lot and he should make it up by showing us what his life is like when he's not with Percy (which is increasingly often) and letting us see his independence develop to the point that he's ready to take on his new mantle and be a leader.

Season 5 is obviously Luke's. Even the book is written like that. We need flashbacks to his life and childhood just as much as Percy does, and they need to humanize him and let us empathize with who he was and how he got to who he is by the end of the story before he dies. I think they should give us flashbacks to his quest here, too, and probably the conversation he clearly has with Hermes before he goes on it (he's obviously bitter when he talks about it in tlt, and he had to get his magic shoes, and I think they need to utilize having that conversation in person so we can see how Hermes tries and fails to relate to him and also to make LMM make very very sad eyes as Luke leaves because he knows his son is at the end of his time as a hero). They can milk this for all the comparisons between Luke and Percy. I think flashbacks to his claiming, and not having to move cabins but probably like getting a bed or something now that he's here Forever, and when he becomes the Cabin Counselor. How/when he meets up with Thalia. Him seeking out fights as they make their way to camp. The battles he fights on his quest, facing monsters he's working with now, getting the scar.

[cynthiav06]

Percy is a dude from the category of screaming "what the hell did you do!" and solve all the problems in 5 minutes. Everyone would have been dead a long time ago if it wasn't for him.

I have mixed opinions on this. On one hand, Percy is the type of person to wait about for the problem to disappear by itself just so he doesn't have to deal with it. Cause even before he found out he was a demigod, he was 100% done with everyone's shit.

But I do agree that he would be able to solve all problems because through so many books we have seen that no matter how much prior planning Annabeth or the Seven or anyone else does, Percy always does his own thing at the end. And it works out mostly for the better than whatever initial situation anyone else had in mind because Percy thinks almost too well on his feet. Every time.

But Percy has such low self esteem that he sees the fact that he has to make so many improvisations more so as his plans never working as less so as an exceptional ability to adapt. Especially when at times he can easily sense that some titan/giant is too powerful so he maneuvers around a direct fight and ends up defeating them by pure strategy and still ends up thinking of himself as "Oh shit I seriously had no plans. I am so reckless and stupid".

His whole character arc could have been evolving into a more confident and self assured but still the usual sarcastic laid back version of himself who no longer doubts his own abilities and becomes the great leader he showed many signs of being. But no, Rick had to ruin it all because, for some reason, 10+ books later and almost all the characters are still the same, just decorated with even more trauma. Rick being Rick, and instead of showing characters working out their traumas and insecurities, he just slaps a relationship on them, and lo and behold, all is better again somehow.

I am kind of disappointed that we never got to see Percy or any other members of the Seven do any solo missions(aside from Annabeth in MoA) . She almost had the very quintessential realization about she needs others and how her hubris will ruin everything if she doesn't keep it in check only for whatever she was doing in the later parts House of Hades and all of Chalice of the Gods to take away even that little bit of character development.

And cause solo missions working out perfectly well for Percy while most other demigods struggle a bit to make it work might finally make him realize that his plans don't suck and he is actually a really really good strategist and somehow an even better manipulator. (Though more on that and his observational skills later).

Or make characters like Frank and Leo whose unique abilities and perspectives on combat could have been shown off more, making them all become more self-reliant.

And even so we could finally get proper idea of limits of certain characters like Piper (cause charmspeak isn't going to get her everywhere) or Hazel (we so need more scenes of her surprising demigods and monsters with not only her unique jewel abilities and her magic.) Plus Nico's combat limits, Jason's stamina limits (no I am not considering that part of canon, you can't tell me it's true, I refuse to stand by it), Thalia's character development as well as her honing her powers and combat abilities more.

So yeah, we really should have gotten a few solo missions instead of so many short stories and all. And a bit more cross-over highlighting the power levels between the Norse, Greek, Roman, and Egyptian demigods/magicians/Valhalla residents/Valkyrie and so on.

To sum it up, tons of missed opportunities by Riordan and even more tragic and terrible progression of previously great characters who just needed a well-made character arc or even some favoritism. (I am looking at Grover and Rachel, who both could have done so so much if Rick had only realized the awesome potential they had).

I have said it many times that it's #percy jackson supremacy. So hell yes everyone would be dead without him, and he is arguably the best protagonist out of any other fantasy action book series. All hail Percy Jackson, the master of sass, and the most beloved but somehow still the most misinterpreted character in the fandom. Really liked this ask, would love more of these regarding Percy or any other characters.

[bookishjules]

there's a specific paragraph in wottg that's been haunting me since i read it. and i can't keep putting off addressing it in fear of not having the right words to do so, so here we go..

from the lines highlighted in blue and yellow here, two very different stories seem to be being told.

on the one hand, in blue, we have percabeth as we have always known them--in sync. a well-oiled machine of a team that functions better together, drawing from each other's strengths and treating each other as equals. this is how their relationship is supposed to function. we know this from books full of moments when we got to see the development of their relationship, relying on and understanding each other more and more as the years pass by.

in theory, the yellow should support the claim of synchronicity the blue makes (and rightly so according to past books), and ostensibly that seems to be the case. percy as the narrator is just making a silly aside before realizing it doesn't work and shifting back to his original statement, right? but there's an implication here that within the team, the focus is annabeth. she's the only one who belongs there and there's no room for a p or a j or any amount of percy at all.

this doesn't line up with the blue statements at all, because in order for annabeth to be the more important member of the team, the two of them can't be equals, which throws off the balance, disallows synchronicity, and makes collaboration difficult at best. could you say, in a vacuum, that the intention here was what mattered and that the truth lies in that which we, the audience, have known to be true for years? yes, certainly. but the thing is, this paragraph does not exist in a vacuum, and in fact, of the two competing stories, i'm far more inclined to point to the yellow as a better representation of the book surrounding it and the representation of the unit that is percy and annabeth therein.

over and again in wottg we see the uncharacteristic, and pretty much unprecedented, imbalance in their team. from the narration, it's clear that percy holds himself at a lower standing than annabeth, but it's also clear from the story as a whole that annabeth is similarly inclined. percy not only believes he can't do as much as previous books told us he could, but his actions seem to prove that lack of maturity. he relies on annabeth more than he ever has, and not in a cute way. he looks to annabeth to solve all his problems because he doesn't trust himself, and annabeth is doing nothing to show him he should. she's surprised when he has good ideas, surprised when he comforts her, surprised when he does or says anything competent. and percy expects it. it's clear he's pretty much given up trying to solve problems etc., because even when he does manage to accomplish something without annabeth, she tells him he did it wrong or makes fun of him (and again, not in a cute way).

there are so many conversations that could be had here regarding blatant shifts in characterization that have little to do with trauma or codependency, but what i really want to point out is how this book, and the author who wrote it, really doesn't seem to understand or properly represent just how big of an effect these changes in the characters seem to be having on their relationship with one another. if a layman were to read wottg, i can't imagine they could read this paragraph and believe the lines in blue. because it's simply not true for this iteration of percy and annabeth.

just as it can be understood how well percy and annabeth worked together by being shown how much they respected and trusted one another throughout pjo, it must also be understood that the dramatic imbalance in authority and intelligence being shown in wottg hold a similar weight of truth, no matter what the narrative otherwise states, or how insistent it is in telling us that nothing has changed in percy and annabeth's relationship. just because the author wants it to be true, and wants his reader to believe what they are being told, does not erase the very real actions of the character throughout the book.

[11queensupreme11]

How would the yanderes react to the character and way of being of Piper and her relationship with Percy, I mean, I'm not judging Rick, but he went out of his way to make a Mary Sue and an icon for women with his way of being even at the expense of ruining his other characters (Annabeth, Percy, etc.) giving him powers that are not relevant in the previous books we had been told that the witchspeaker does not It worked with the gods and out of nowhere comes Piper and it worked when she manipulated Gai later with her attitude of "I'm a daughter of Aphrodite who doesn't like to be pretty, attract attention, be rich." I don't like that my father is a famous actor either, he knows how to fight and that makes me different from my mother's other children." What is this about? Aphrodite's children demonstrated several times that not only did they She worries about their appearance and that they know how to fight especially in the last hero of Olympus and most of the time Piper likes to be paid attention when she is with the 7 in the Argo I feel like Piper would be the type of character who has the script on her side and that's why things turn out well for her. While Rick gives Percy and Nico every character development that makes you think "stop Rick, he's one step away from breaking down," Piper literally said that he suffered a lot in his childhood because"Her father was not with her and he preferred to spend his time working" that is not suffering, your father spent his time working so he could take care of you Meanwhile, Percy's mother also worked and kept her away from him and she did not put herself in a suffering role, Nico Zeus killed his mother, Jason was abandoned by his mother, Leo had to see his mother Dying and blaming himself for it, But each one moved forward While Percy and the others, sorry, but I'm going to focus on my daughter in the books, it seems to me that sometimes Piper doesn't like Percy for the simple fact of being a competition.For Jason being the son of Poseidon

Sorry, I got excited and deviated from the question, what is it:

How would the yanderes react to Piper if she somehow didn't like Percy or treated her badly in the Argo when Percy tried to (as she did in most of the Mark of Athenea book) give orders

It may be a very unlikely situation according to some that Piper treats her badly but it is that in blue arsenic Percy adopted a personality that Piper and most feminists would not like.(Act adorable and like a helpless little girl)

(MY RESPONSE ENDED UP BEING SO LONG TOO LMAO, I'M SORRY)

so a long time ago i found this funny website about the types of mary sues, and here are the ones i feel like piper fits the bill for:

-> not just about piper's issues with her dad and being rich, but her whole thing with jason, which is ESPECIALLY prevalent in toa, where she bemoans about how hera and aphrodite FORCED her into a relationship with jason, when that was not the case at all. throughout all of hoo, we read about piper going through with the false memories even after being told that they were fake memories conjured by the mist, wishing that jason doesn't remember his past so he would stay with her, getting jealous over reyna, getting upset whenever jason thinks about anything related to camp jupiter, etc.

but rick was getting a lot of backlash over jasper/jiper, so he breaks them up in toa, but does it in a way to make PIPER look like the victim instead because, again, he really likes her and wants ppl to sympathize with her

-> someone on quotev mentioned this, but basically piper and annabeth lol. when piper first landed in camp, annabeth was spilling EVERYTHING to her and immediately became vulnerable, when annabeth was never characterized to be like that. she has always been standoffish at times, and after the war, she definitely wouldn't be spilling all her woes to a random girl. but again, rick wants her to be liked, and the best way to do that was immediately have her connect with a well-loved character from the first series

(i'm really sorry about these big ass adds that appear in the middle 💀)

-> piper out-charmspeaking drew, which was made easier for her since the aphrodite kids were given a massive downgrade personality and skill-wise. and like you mentioned before, her charmspeak working on goddesses even though it shouldn't.

-> piper has done a lot of stuff wrong. before they get to kansas, she gets visions from katoptris about jason having golden eyes (he and percy gets possessed by the eidolons and are forced to try and kill each other), REPEATEDLY gets a vision of her, jason, and percy DROWNING, and a dude with a vine hat (bacchus). and she only every speaks about the dude with the vine hat 💀. and after she, jason, and percy drown, she confesses that she had seen it before and apologizes for not saying anything because "i didn't know how to tell you guys 🥺" and she's immediately forgiven

-> honestly, it's not really just piper, but it shows more with her 💀 rick was trying to make her a feminist icon, but she reeked of internalized misogyny and it didn't help that all of her enemies or rivals were female characters who were comfortable with their femininity (they liked pink, wore makeup, liked dresses/skirts, etc.) and she triumphed over them every single time, which is basically proves that piper was RIGHT to think that way 💀

-> she was obsessed with jason bro 💀 like, almost possessive kinda yandere, but ofc it was never supposed to be seen that way, rick just unwittingly wrote her that way which is kinda funny

-> she's not exactly a villain (she's supposed to be one of the good guys) but she was DEFINITELY spoiled by the story for sure 💀

OKAY IM SORRY I WENT ON A TANGENT TOO, BUT I WANTED TO SHOW YOU THE SITE I FOUND LMAO 😭

i'm not gonna have piper and percy interact much, tho to be fair, they didn't interact much in canon either so i don't think anything will change. piper will definitely notice percy's more girly side and be like "ew :/" but she's mostly going to be daunted by her because YES, she's girly and a bit of a girlflop, but she's seen her fight and seen how powerful she can be. she's mostly just gonna be sus and jealous cuz i plan on fleshing out percy and jason's relationship

(i plan on making jason lowkey jealous and bitter about percy because percy is everything he strives to be: perfect, and it makes him insecure. plus, she's clearly well-loved not just by the camp, but by her father and other gods, and he feels inadequate and wants to be like her, but percy's gonna try and help him through with it 🥺💖)

daddyseidon obviously detests piper and is pissed that she refuses to obey percy's orders. in his eyes, his daughter has the highest status out of everyone there and every word she says should be law 💀

hades is put off by piper. he doesn't understand what her problem is LMAO. while he doesn't think it's right for percy to be in charge (she's just a wittle baby, she should be in the palace and chilling, not fighting for her life! 🥺), she's still of higher status and should be obeyed.

(imagine their shock when they find out that percy's actually NOT treated as a princess there and is just treated as One of Them, which she's perfectly cool with ofc, but they hate ittttt 😂😂😂)

apollo is disgusted. his whole thing is about loving yourself and with piper's blaring internalized misogyny, she clearly does NOT love herself and makes it everyone's problem in his eyes 😭😭 he's so worried about percy, what piper's her pissy attitude influences his darling?!?!?! 🥺

beelzebub would just want her dead 💀 his stress levels are high okay, this poor man is stuck watching the love of his life fight against giants, monster, and GAEA 24/7, he just wants them all DEAD ALREADY

loki would find her the most hilarious thing ever (in a derogatory way). she's so full of contradictions it almost makes him feel better about himself 😭 says she's not boy-obsessed and that her siblings are pathetic losers, but acts crazy when it comes to jason. etc etc. it's not until she makes her dislike to percy known that he sobers up and goes "ok that bitch has got to go 😤"

anubis (omg i think this is the first i ever got to write about him like this?!) wouldn't even CARE about piper. she wasn't even in his RADAR and she would've been perfectly safe!! ...but then she goes and does ONE wrong thing to percy and now all bets are off 💀 anubis would've been the only one who would've spared her cuz his only concern is percy, but once she goes after her, he's planning on killing her and using her bones as a chew toy 💀

[aeithalian]

On Apollo and fatal flaws

Vague question for my fellow apollogists out there: what do we think Apollo's fatal flaw is? I write this realizing that, in all five books of the series, all told from Apollo's point of view, we never actually have it explicitly stated, either from Apollo's knowledge and refusal to share (which, strangely, seems to me like something he would tell us), or from him not actually knowing, either.

Simply stated, a fatal flaw is any kind of weakness of a hero, god or mortal, that can be exploited and can cause the downfall of that character. That being said, we already know some that generally scope out the larger range of what they can be:

Percy: excessive personal loyalty

Annabeth: hubris/pride

Nico: holding grudges

Thalia: ambition

Leo: feeling inferior

Piper: low self-esteem

Luke: wrath

Jason: hesitation and excessive deliberation

And we are certain that immortals have flaws like these, too. Although it isn't explicitly stated in canon what Zeus' fatal flaw is, it's exceedingly obvious that it's paranoia and hunger for power, as well as his sexual infidelity.

I feel like we can easily knock some flaws off the list already:

Holding grudges is off the list for the main reason that, if there's one thing Apollo oozes, it's forgiveness, and the fact that he is always ready to give second chances to people who have wronged him and the world (Lityerses, Luguselwa, Meg, etc.)

For the same reason, I'm going to knock off wrath. Yes, he has moments of rage, but so does everybody else! It's human nature, and, as stated before, it's usually overshadowed by Apollo's choice to let go of that anger and choose forgiveness instead.

Ambition is an interesting one, but it's not at all something that really comes up in the series to the point where it ends up being powerful enough to be his fatal flaw. He rarely seeks power he didn't already have before, especially when you consider he is Zeus' most powerful son, and one of the most powerful gods period. Why would he need more power? Unless, of course, you choose to point out that one time he tried to overthrow Zeus, but I'd argue he was acting more out of a place of 'hey please be better at your job' than 'I want your title and position', which actually falls more under Poseidon's motivations in that myth.

Interestingly, there's a certain aspect of Apollo's character in the myths that totally screws the pooch in terms of this discussion, and that's the fact that Apollo, throughout the stories of Ancient Greece, is a typical example of perfection. Literally, he's written to be virtually flawless, the paragon of young men, and (in the context of Ancient Greek culture) doesn't have many moments of rage, selfishness, or paranoia, or at least, not as many as other gods (looking at you, Artemis).

HOWEVER, as much as the myths seemingly act like he doesn't have a glaringly obvious flaw, we as a part of Apollo's inner circle/audience know he's got one - I mean, look at him! It's in there somewhere, nobody's perfect, and I don't think anybody's pretending as such for Apollo. What irks me is that we know Apollo is not lacking in general character flaws, but there is one, beyond a doubt, that shapes his inner core irreversibly. And we don't know it.

Thankfully, though, we've got five books of content that might help us come to a conclusion.

The Hidden Oracle, being the beginning of the story and the beginning of Apollo's character development, is where we would get an inkling of what Apollo wants us to think his fatal flaw is. To us, Apollo appears vain, self-centered, and, frankly annoying. And he does these things on purpose. Or at least, he tells us these things.

That's the thing: if you look past all the fluff Apollo spits out to the audience throughout the first majority of the book, before his children are taken into the forest, you'd find that his dialogue, aka how the other characters of the story hear and see him, doesn't really reflect that. Most of the annoying, self-centered brattiness is only on the page, and not as obvious in his personal interactions (not saying they're not there, but it's so much worse in his internal monologue). So, what does this tell us?

That those aren't his fatal flaws. He's very good at pretending that they are, probably because, as I've read several other metas very cleverly explain, that this is what gods are supposed to be, and, Apollo, in his desperation be his father's golden child again (or, also to avoid his wrath, take that how you will) has built up a very elaborate mask for thousands of years, because that is what he is not. He's trying to be glossed over in the vast sea that is the gods, and it's not really working because, well, he got turned into a mortal. Again.

As we pass through books 2 and 3, we're still not quite past the whole "pretending to be petty and self-serving because this is what I am supposed to be as dictated by the laws of my immortal people and my father". That, almost certainly, doesn't come until the latter half of The Burning Maze. So it's further safe to assume that our best guess as to his fatal flaw probably coincides with his more honest moments with the audience, eg. books 4 and 5.

Now, I know a popular common answer to this whole question is that it's his ego and his pride. But here's the thing: as we move on to the second half of the series, we get an interesting revealing of Apollo's perception of himself. To put it plainly: Apollo is not a narcissist, as much as he pretends to be (see the above points). Honestly, he might actually hate himself and what he's become as he learns to take a more critical view of himself as the series goes on. Drawn in direct antithesis to his moments in the first two books, when he tells us that he assumes that anybody he meets is willing to help him, after the peak of his development (marked by his promise and Jason's subsequent death), this isn't the case. That's why I'm pretty okay with putting pride and ego towards the bottom of my list of possible fatal flaws for him.

Honestly, if I didn't know any better as we reach the end of the series, I'd say Apollo's fatal flaw might fall somewhere closer to poor self-esteem, insecurity and self-doubt, but for some reason, that doesn't quite fit. I'd argue that a lot of those feelings probably stem from being stuck in the inadequate body of a mortal with a tiny fraction of his usual power - of course he's going to feel like that. That, and it's almost the direct opposite of what his flaw is perceived to be by other sources, so it feels like too large a leap to me.

I'm deliberating from my point, which is this: I still have no clue what his fatal flaw is.

It's not:

narcissism

pride

OR on the other side of the spectrum:

low-self esteem

self-doubt

OR the list of things we knocked off earlier:

holding grudges

wrath

ambition

And when you compare to other characters he might also be like, I would argue he's a totally different animal. The only character I could see a similarity with is Percy. But, again, it's just not the same. Percy's flaw, excessive personal loyalty, still doesn't really fit because, while I'd argue that Apollo's never really put in a situation where he's had to choose to save the life a mortal friend over his task of restoring the Oracles, I do believe he has a strong sense of duty. No, I don't think he would sacrifice Meg's life to do that job, but it's not something we see him forced to pick between (that I can think of, at least). I like to think that, on one hand, Percy would flat-out refuse to do his duty to save the life of a friend out of principle, whereas Apollo might find a clever loophole to save the friend, do the duty, and end up doing harm to himself. If anything, while Percy would be ready to burn the world to save a friend, Apollo would be ready to burn himself first.

That, I think, is our biggest indicator. Apollo loves his friends and the world. He wears his heart on his sleeve, this is something the Triumvirate exploits to no end.

Athena tells Percy something in the PJO series (the Titan's Curse, I think?) and says that the most dangerous fatal flaws are the ones that are good in moderation. And, of course, Apollo is a main character, so naturally his fatal flaw will fall under this category.

I think Apollo's fatal flaw is of the same breed as Percy's, but isn't really the same creature. I'm sure there's a more eloquent way to put this, but it seems to me that his fatal flaw has something to do with his tendency to be self-sacrificing, easily forgiving, and empathetic. He's been stabbed in the back several times and every time chooses instead to show trust and camaraderie, to see the best in people, and give them another chance to prove themselves: with Meg, Crest, Lityerses, Luguselwa, Meg's adoptive siblings, and many, many more. That seems very dangerous in the wrong situation, yes? Especially someone in Apollo's position - there are plenty of bad people who would be ready to take advantage of this.

And what is a story if not the hero learning to overcome their fatal flaw? And, really what is the Trials of Apollo all about? How do we end? What choices does Apollo make for the future at the conclusion of the Tower of Nero that directly contradict his overwhelming urge to choose forgiveness and let others try again?

The Tower of Nero, Chapter 36

At the end of any good epic story, the hero learns to overcome their weaknesses and flaws and do the right thing regardless. For Apollo, this comes when he refuses to forgive one person: Zeus. Apollo ends his pentalogy with coming to an understanding of himself and his relationship with his father, learning to overcome that tendency see the best in everyone, and realize that not everyone can choose to change for the better like Apollo has.

EDIT: a masterlist of my other metas

[somewhereincairparavel]

ahhh congrats on 500

🍭

riordanverse, jercy

thank you anon!

jason and percy's relationship is so complex and, at times, messy just like any rival teenagers's relationship would be tbh. But if I'm being completely honest w you, they were only annoyed by eachother during the beginning of MOA, and I feel like the tension dissipated pretty quickly. A part of me feels like they BOTH idolized eachother secretly behind all that "jealousy" towards e/o, and I'm saying this because in the beginning of MOA, we saw them quickly come to eachother's defence in front of octavian, and percy even felt guilty to be taking jason's room (and by that point percy knew that jason was a very qualified and respected person in CJ) so I always felt like there was admiration on both ends mixed with envy aswell.

We saw how freely they could talk about their struggles to eachother underwater when jason saved percy. jason even kept his word that he wouldn't tell anyone that he saved percy's life in order to not shatter his ego when he could've used that opportunity to embarrass him in front of everyone to make himself appear superior, but he knew that percy would also never do something like that to him either, and he also understood percy's insecurity and wanting to keep his reputation intact since he still thought very low of himself. Overall jason and percy are such decent and humble people, that no matter how hard they try to be competitive, they simply understand each other so well.

We know that during one of the magnus chase books (the ship of the dead i think), which took place a short period after hoo ended, percy told magnus that jason once saved him underwater, causing annabeth to tease him about it. But it makes me think that jason and percy got to a point in their friendship where they completely let go of their egos, I mean, percy basically admitted that jason saved his butt in front of his girlfriend, when we know that the whole reason he even told jason not to tell anyone about it was bc he said annabeth would never let him live that down. so him freely admitting that is a huge indicator of how developed their friendship after hoo might have been.

We also know that, after jasons death, percy could never even mention his name without breaking into agressive tears. And unfortunately, apart from piper/nico, that was the only solid "crying my heart out" reaction we even got from the characters a long time after jason died.

[punkeropercyjackson]

My 2000s/2010s kid medias wisdom:

Azula deserved a redemption arc and Ty Lee is the girl who got shafted by not being Zuko's love interest

The Soul Society is a military state and Ichigo was a good person for never joining it and Orihime was the best Bleach character

Sasuke was right and Kishimito made him an extremist as ableist victim blaming propaganda and Sakura and Hinata are equally good

Ben 10,including the sequels,is better than Danny Phantom

Flynn Ryder was a creep and a dickhead who didn't deserve Rapunzel

Hiccup was trans but so was Astrid,only transfem instead

Teen Titans is a beyond good show but the influence it's had on DC's comics is bad and Young Justice Animated should've never existed

The Hunger Games and Chronicles of Narnia derserve better than to be grouped in with Harry Potter because Thg is an anti-bigotry story rather than liberal bs and you can actually pull 'Death of the Author' with the problematic elements of Tcon because C.S Lewis is actually dead

Adventure Time is an almost perfect show and so're it's comics and sequel miniseries' and you can't pull 'It's bad because it got too serious in later seasons!!!' as a fact because that was the point,that it was trying to be different from most kids cartoons and it not being your thing dosen't mean it's not good writing

Winx Club,W.i.t.c.h,Totally Spies,The Powerpuff Girls,Kim Possible and MLP are feminist even if they have their flaws and they're brought in a girly packaging because they're meant to be heroes for little girls

Johnny Test is fine and y'all are weird fow visceral your reaction to it was

Percy Jackson and the Olympians dropped the ball by having Percy end up with Annabeth because they're 'destined to' since the point of Percy's story is that he never gets to choose what they actually want and they should've either ended up with Rachel or stayed single to work on character development and healing,Luke never actually cared about other demigods and was only using them as ammo against the gods because if he actually cared he wouldn't have abused them,Toa should've instead been a third Percy series of them destroying Olympus' corruption because they've had enough of the gods and replacing it with an actual good societal system and Percy is a super cool autistic Team Parent who'd be femme and kidcore if Rick bothered to develop their interests

Star Vs The Forces of Evil should've made trans Marco and autistic Star canon,endgamed them with Tom and Janna instead of eachother,made Jackie an mc and done none of that 'no magic' shit

Gravity Falls,We Bare Bears and Undertale/Deltarune's icon status are well-deserved

Craig of the Creek only gets ignored because it's a black show that's good

And She Ra and the Princesses of Power is called cringe nonstop because it's fanbase is largely wlw and trans women who're loud and proud with their queerness and the creator at the time of it's airing identified as a nonbinary lesbian and people hate female queerness while hyping up male kinds that play into stereotypes(Stiles and Derek from Teen Wolf,Magnus and Alec from The Mortal Instruments,the Shiro/Keith discourse,the Boyfriends Webtoon,Marauder's Era even being a thing,etc.Note that i am not calling Stevenson female but rather saying he knows what lesbophobic experiences are)

[invisibleperiwinkle]

i haven’t seen may people talk about this but it’s one of my main gripes with the percy jackson show so here we go.

annabeths character is so poorly written.

and before we begin, leah is an AMAZING actress and i’m PUMPED for her and black girls everywhere who can see themselves represented in such a badass character.

that being said, the folks in the writers room are FAILING annabeth. her character in the show is incredibly one dimensional, and again it’s not at the fault of the actress, the writers simply aren’t writing the character well. which breaks my heart for two reasons

1) there’s representation for a strong independent black character but if you take away all the things that makes annabeth such a cool and interesting character it feels so tacked on and not cared for. if you want to have representation do the character justice so the moment is important. not just lack luster and anti climactic

2) the writer of the books is writing the show. and rick has forgotten his own characters. which isn’t new information but it never stops pissing me off.

annabeth is a character i see myself in a lot, so having her not be written well for the show is so upsetting. the fact being she isn’t a hard character to write. she’s smart (of course), calculated, but also very reserved. these are the parts of her we see, but even then not much of it.

the moments i feel took so much character development away from her were

a) not having the spiders in the tunnel o’ love

b) not having her play fetch with cerberus

c) the zoo truck scene not being focused on percy and annabeth getting to know each others backstories and more making it “oooo guys did you know they fall in love with each other in four books?!?!?!??”

d) the aunty em scene being changed and not getting to see annabeth just be a kid for five minutes and want to eat burgers and fries

e) annabeth not being giddy over the gateway arch/not playing the architecture game in the lotus hotel

f) ZERO trace of her crush on luke

annabeth is a very closed off character but those moments in particular showcase her being more human and also the trust she has in percy to let him see that side of her.

A) while yes, we do get to see annabeth scared in the tunnel o’ love scene thinking she’s going to lose percy, there’s a difference in the fear of thinking you lost your best friend vs seeing something you’re genuinely scared of.

the mechanical spiders are so huge to annabeths development because she lets percy see her scared and not just this strong wall of calculations she’s been portrayed as this whole time.

it makes her seem more human. we remember she’s still just a 12 year old girl who’s spent most of her development years at camp because she didn’t have anyone

B) this scene in the books is hands down one of my favorites. annabeth plays fetch with this dog and teaches him tricks and then she cries

we get a wonderful exchange of percy saying that everyone needs a little love and attention sometimes which is something annabeth never got

also she cries!! AND AND AND!!! we get more backstory, that she had a doberman before she ran away

i guarantee, and in fact we KNOW annabeth doesn’t like reminiscing on her past at home. but she did here. even for a second. we see her breaking down her walls yet again. slowly but surely.

also i want to showcase the significance of her crying, i’m gonna infer here from how i am as a person, but i hate crying in front of people to the point that i simply can’t. and i’ve only cried in front of like four people? two over a facetime call, and twice in person (my parents). and they are all people i trust with my life, i don’t cry to people often. so if i do cry in front of you it is a HUGE sign of trust for me. and i feel like from all i know about annabeth, she is the exact same way. crying in front of someone is a huge sign of trust. so there lol.

C) again, with reminiscing on her home life, we get the zoo truck

the show is WAYYY overdoing percabeth. and for someone who that’s their favorite ship of all time to say that, you know it’s an issue. i said it. there’s too much percabeth. specifically, coupley percabeth. THEY ARE STILL TWELVE.

and the zoo truck scene in the show was changed from percy and annabeth getting to know the more personal and intricate “this is what i hide from the world that whittles away my soul, but here i trust you, we’re friends. you deserve to hear this” side of each other, to “when did you two become an old married couple”

excuse me while i roll my eyes into next century.

taking away them getting to know each other pissed me off so much. because again. we don’t get to see annabeth be vulnerable and human.

percy existing and breaking down her walls is HUGE to her character development throughout the books and they are just taking it away from her

D) these last three are all gonna be shorter because it’s all more or less the same point, it all showcases how annabeth is still just a kid at heart

this is the first time we see annabeth not care about the next step or if there’s something else going on. when they’re at the garden gnome emporium and auntie em offers them food annabeth jumps at the chance to just hang out and eat food

she is still a kid. the show provides none of this. the show doesn’t make annabeth seem like a kid at all. just a very calculated human trapped in the body of a preteen.

E) annabeths whole schtick for the entire series is her loving architecture and it being that one thing (in the first book) that brings out that sense of childlike wonder and whimsy in her

in the book she gets all giddy about the arch and makes them pause the quest so she can go to the top of it. also talking about how it’s held up by math and having her sparkle and wonder and awe that comes when talking about your passion.

do we see this in the show? no. why would we!

also the architecture game is just cute. of course the one game she’d gravitate towards is about building things. LIKE CMON NOW. ugh

let my girl be a kid and have whimsy. PLEASE.

F) now i HATE luke but this is a character thing for annabeth. seeing her have a crush on luke cause ofc she would. he’s the one guy to show her any love and care and he’s handsome i suppose.

she’s still just a girl. so naturally she would have a crush on him. and it’s something that again just makes her a human.

and there isn’t enough of that.

annabeth is a really special character to me and to see her be failed by the writers is heartbreaking. especially when you have an amazing of an actress as leah playing her. you cannot sit there and write an underdeveloped version of one of the best female protagonists of modern YA literature. be serious with me for a sec

to quickly state my point. annabeth isn’t a difficult character to write, the writers just don’t seem to want to put in the time of reserching and developing already developed characters. literally ALL you have to do is go back and read and comprehend the books. THATS IT.

annabeth is a smart, independent, calculated character. but that’s not THE ONLY SIDE OF HER. as the show would have you believe. she has emotions and she is human, behind her walls she’s just a twelve year old girl figuring out life and wanting to be loved and appreciated and taken seriously like all of us do. and it’s killing me that they aren’t doing justice to her character, especially when because of the show, she gets to be a role model for black girls everywhere. they deserve better than that.

rick, i’m asking you kindly, just give me the pen and let me in that writers room so annabeth can be done right. 🩷

[helenofsparta2]

kind of related to your post about zoe just now but: what do you think of the hunters in general? I've got a lot of thoughts on them myself.. most of them not that positive lmao lots of "could have been good, but very poor execution" and "sounds cool on the surface, but very questionable when thought about more"

First of all, thank you for the question :)))

Oh god, this might become a slightly longer post, because I have a lot to say about the hunters of Artemis.

From what you’ve written, it sounds like we might have a very similar opinion. I personally think they are one of the worst-written parts of the original Percy Jackson books. I love their idea, I love their basic concept, but their execution was pretty atrocious.

There are four main points regarding them that I want to talk about.

The portrayal of Artemis (though this one is by far not as bad as the others)

2. The behaviour of the huntresses

3. Bianca

4. Lacking Development

Artemis

Now, I know that the gods and goddesses of the Riordan verse, are sanitized caricatures, and shouldn’t be compared to their actual myth versions. I think everyone in this fandom has at least heard some well-founded criticisms regarding the portrayal of Ares, Athena, Aphrodite, Apollo or any of the other gods.  

I even understand why Rick Riordan made most of the decisions that he did. Obviously, the gods had to be sanitized for a book series primarily aimed at children, and, to be fair to him, even if their characterizations are a far-cry from their myths and sometimes overly stereotypical (Aphrodite), they are fulfilling the roles they have in this story as deeply flawed, but powerful individuals, because of whose careless mistakes and pride demigods, and other ‘lesser’ beings have to suffer.  

And I actually do not hate Artemis’ portrayal that much, if we exclude the behavior of her hunt, and the initiation of Bianca. Her taking Annabeth’s place in holding the sky and her loudly arguing against killing Percy and Thalia at the winter solstice was a great portrayal of her being a patron goddess of children, and the idea of including the hunters of Artemis as a group of girls, both from mortal and immortal parents, who have been hurt by the world, and found a safe place with one another is actually really great. Generally, whenever she appears in the books, I have the feeling she is handled with far more graze and respect than a lot of other godly beings.  

However, as someone who very much loves Greek mythology, I just want to point out some small parts, which are not entirely accurate, though, again,  I understand Rick’s reason for omitting them in the context of what he wanted to do with her character and the hunt , and I acknowledge that even in ancient times, there existed a variety of different interpretations of the gods.

(Please note, that while I read original sources like the works of Diodor, Apollodorus, Hesiod, and Euripides, I am not a classicist, and that my knowledge of the greek gods primarily stems from personal research and my own interest. If anyone knows more about Artemis, please feel free to correct me if necessary)  

While Artemis is primarily the goddess of the hunt, and in later interpretations of the moon, she is not only the protector of girls, but the patron goddess of children in general and a goddess closely linked to childbirth.

Yes, she expects her followers to remain chaste, but to say that she is completely against men would be a grave mistake. Male followers of Artemis did exist in mythology, most famously Orion, who later became a constellation, and Hippolytus, the son of Theseus and the Amazon Hippolyta.

So, her cold behavior towards Nico and her degrading words towards boys in general is an attribute primarily added by Rick Riordan.

Though, like I said, I understand making certain changes to gods and goddesses, or rather choosing different interpretations of them to have them fulfill a certain role in a book series, so Artemis portrayal itself doesn’t bother me that much.

But if we’re talking about the hunters themselves, things easily take a turn for the worse.  

The behavior of the hunters

Now, I understand the hunters point in the story.

A huge theme of Titan’s curse is to explore the difference between old ideals of what heroism entails and the modern take on it, represented through Theseus and Herakles on one side, and Percy on the other. The hunters, and especially Zöe, represent a group, who have suffered through the actions of those old, primarily male heroes, and have developed a strong bias against all boys and men as a result. A bias, Percy is supposed to break in this book.

This, in itself, is a pretty awesome concept. But, like I said, the execution mostly failed.

Most of the Hunters of Artemis in Titan’s curse were written without any nuance, without development and without any sense of self reflection.

To express it plainly, they completely suck. And that hurts to say, especially as someone who is asexual-sex-repulsed and aromantic, because, like I said, they could have been an absolutely amazing part of the overarching story and theme of the book series, but with the way Rick Riordan wrote them, they suck. They’re insufferable.  They’re a group of immortal teenagers with a superiority complex, who act the way right-wing republicans and trump supporters think feminists act like.

They’re completely antagonistic towards the campers at camp half-blood for absolutely no good reason, act really childish and immature, and their overwhelming bias against every male character, especially Percy and Nico, is just plain annoying and goes to a point, where it makes them act like absolute idiots and assholes.

Zöe’s behavior at the meeting to decide who should go on the quest to save Artemis is a pretty good representation of everything I dislike about the hunters.  

She doesn’t want to take campers with her on the quest, even though the oracle plainly stated that them working together was the only way for them to succeed:

“You’re missing something as usual,” Thalia said. “Campers and Hunters combined prevail. We’re supposed to do this together.”

“No!”, Zoe said. “The Hunters do not need thy help.”

Immediately afterwards, she makes fun of Silena Beauregard (who is around 14 or 15 at the time, might I add.):

“Percy is right,” Silena Beauregard said. “Two campers should go.”

“Oh, I see,” Zoe said sarcastically. “And I suppose you wish to volunteer?”

Silena blushed. “I’m not going anywhere with the hunters. Don’t look at me!”

“A daughter of Aphrodite does not wish to be looked at,” Zoe scoffed. “What would thy mother say?”

And then, she decisively refuses Percy’s help for the quest, even though he is objectively the best person for the job. I really can’t reiterate enough that Percy is the most accomplished hero present at that meeting. He has successfully led two quests, one to stop a civil war between the gods, the second to recover the golden fleece. Even in comparison to Thalia, Percy is more accomplished and has gained more respect within the mythological world.

As I walked back through the city of the gods, conversations stopped. The muses paused their concert. People and satyrs and naiads all turned towards me, their faces filled with respect and gratitude, and as I passed, they knelt, as if I were some kind of hero. (The lightning thief)

Yet Zoe refuses his help to save the goddess she serves and increases so the risk of failure, simply because he is a boy.

“Oh,” Grover said, suddenly aware of the problem. “Whoa, yeah. I forgot! Percy has to go. I didn’t mean… I’ll stay. Percy should go in my place.”

“He cannot,” Zoe said. “He’s a boy. I won’t have Hunters travelling with a boy.”

Another huge problem in their characterization is their immortality. Here I want to focus again on their ongoing beef with camp half-blood, because, yes, while the campers also act pretty antagonistic in return, I think it’s important to note that most kids at camp half blood are between the ages of 10 and I’d say maybe 17 years old, while the huntresses are immortal.

Now, it’s obviously possible that most of them are still teenagers and haven’t been part of the hunt for that long, but considering the fact that Zoe is over 3000 years old, and could very well be older than most Olympians, the chance of most hunters being older than at least 30, is pretty high, which makes their behavior seem even more ridiculous.

And obviously the whole situation with Bianca paints the hunters in the worst light possible.

Bianca

There are already some pretty good and detailed posts on tumblr regarding the subject of Bianca and the hunters, so I don’t want to dig into this subject too deeply, because this post is already way too long, but you can’t possibly write about the hunters without mentioning her.

The hunters, especially Zoe and Artemis convinced Bianca to join them in a moment of huge distress. Bianca was a twelve-year-old, vulnerable girl, who just found out she was a demigod, almost got kidnapped by the manticore, and watched a girl fall down a cliff, yet they expect her to swear allegiance to them after only a couple of minutes of knowing them.

They paint her this beautiful picture of having no responsibility and a new family, telling her exactly, what she wanted to hear without giving her even a moment to breathe or give her time to talk to her brother or fully think this through.

I want to point out that at this point in time, Artemis had already decided that she needed to go after the monster alone, and knew, that her hunters would spend some time at camp half-blood. But instead of giving Bianca these couple days/ weeks to accept this new reality of the mythological world and get to know both camp half-blood and the hunters, she wants an answer at this very moment,

Yes, Bianca’s answer was rash, and yes, I do think it’s rather cold that she didn’t first talk to Nico about it, but it’s pretty plain to see that she was overwhelmed and pretty much manipulated during this entire conversation.

Later, Zoe decides to take her with her on the quest, even though Bianca is completely unprepared for it. She is probably, aside from Nico, the most unprepared person in the entirety of camp half-blood to go on a quest.  

I don’t think I have to explain how terrible of a decision that was.

The hunters are objectively the worst thing that could have ever happened to Bianca and the main reason why she died.

Lacking Development:

Now, all of this, every single flaw I just pointed out, could have actually worked out, if there would have been some sort of change in the hunters’ way of thinking and an acknowledgement that their opinions on boys and males in general are misguided and lead to more harm than good during the course of the books.

Especially after their actions led to Bianca’s death.

Them seeing how much love Nico had for his sister and how much he suffered from her death could have been a great moment for some character development.

But nothing happened.

Camp half blood and the hunters grieving together at the end of Titan’s curse for both Zoe and Bianca could have resulted in a genuine moment of friendship between the two groups, leading to understanding and change.  

But nothing happened.

The only person who took responsibility for Bianca’s death at the end of Titan’s curse was fourteen-year-old Percy. The only person who cared enough about Nico to search for him and make sure he was safe, was Percy. The hunters didn’t care at all. Took no responsibility whatsoever.

All that happened at the end of that book was that Thalia became a huntress, and that Zoe and Artemis acknowledged Percy as a hero.

This, while admittedly, a great moment for Percy’s characterization and also somewhat for the character development of Zoe, had very little effect otherwise.  

Because, in the end, Zoe and Artemis treated Percy as if he was the exception. As if they had been only wrong about him, and not boys in general. They didn’t revisit their line of thinking, they didn’t self-reflect and they didn’t acknowledge that their bias was utterly flawed, and that they should treat male demigods generally better.

She (Zöe) grasped it contently. “You spoke the truth, Percy Jackson. You are nothing like… like Hercules. I am honored that you carry this sword.”

Then, she (Artemis) turned to me. “You did well,” she said. “For a man.”

Percy Jackson is fundamentally a story about the circle of abuse, and, Percy specifically, breaking that circle, but nothing of note happened with the hunters.

Because even if Zoe had confronted her own bias, (and there is admittedly an argument to be made that she did) she would have been the only hunter to do so. And she died.

Thalia becoming the lieutenant of the hunters as someone who is best friends with Percy and Grover, and who misses Jason more than anything, could have confronted this distorted line of thinking, but the other hunters remain pretty much unchanged in the last Olympian and The Lost Hero.

There were hugs and greetings al around- or at least Thalia was friendly. The other hunters didn’t like being around campers, especially boys, but they didn’t shoot any of us, which for them was a pretty warm welcome. (The last Olympian, chapter 10)

“Oh, no way,” Leo said. “We’ve been sitting in a cave and you get a luxury tent? Somebody give me hypothermia. I want hot chocolate and a parka!”

Phoebe sniffed. “Boys,” she said, like it was the worst insult she could think of. (XXXVI Leo, the lost hero.)

Conclusion:

So, yeah. They had huge potential, both as individual characters and as part of the overarching plot and theme of Percy Jackson, but their execution was absolutely abysmal.

The only possible positive thing I could say about them is that they are at least better than the Amazons (though that is not particularly hard)

I hope my rambling was understandable, it's already pretty late:')

[oldjws]

i am the percy jackson show’s biggest defender bc fuck all those MILLENIALS complaining about a KIDS show?? this isn’t for you babes its made mainly for the younger generation 😭😭🙏

“the pacing is too fast” so were the books.

“it’s so different from the books, i wanted it exactly like them” of course it’s different the first book wasn’t written with the other 5 books and the following spin offs in mind, so now they’re including details that help expand the world with regards to the whole story + it would be boring if we got a 1:1 retelling of the book like just read the books if that’s the story you want?? 😭

“annabeth is NOT annabeth” yes she literally is pls rmbr that annabeth and percy had a rocky start and they are literally 12!!!

“too much tell and not show” well yeah so were the books 💀 mind you percy’s very new to this world he doesn’t have much pre-existing knowledge other than the stories and so ofc the fastest way to develop the world is by telling, that’s why it’s much easier to show than tell in later books when the readers/watchers alr know so much about how things work so it doesn’t have to be said

“percy’s too serious” he literally makes the best sarcastic comments every episode; the books were written in his perspective, and all his best moments were in his head (which ofc is hard to show), other tv show/movie characters don’t make as many jokes as percy does here idk what ppl are going on about

“they ruined the lotus casino scene, the kids were supposed to have fun” the proceeds to say “where is the sense of urgency!!” now this is so contradicting. you want them to have fun but be urgent?? make it make sense 😭 but yes i would’ve loved to see them get a little distracted, but i loved the scene regardless

the show isn’t perfect, but it’s not as bad as everyone makes it out to be 😕