#tw proship discussion

[real-total-drama-takes]

Something I find ironic (or not) about proshippers is that they would say, “it’s a fictional character why so mad?” But then they project onto them land cherish them like they are their child. Like…….if you don’t really care about a character that much then why are projecting, like leave that character alone if you don’t care about them so much. Like Noah, you claim he’s a fictional character who doesn’t need to be worried about but then treat him like he’s you whole world, projecting onto him headcanoning him.

Sorry for bringing my teacher voice but I had to say it…..

Also I may be wrong..

.

[hey-u-weird]

Yaelokre, boundaries and superfans

I didn’t actually want to reactivate this account, but as I watched the whole Yaelokre thing unfold I just wanted to say my 2 cents

Stating that you don’t want people to make nsfw of your characters is a completely fair thing to say, and it sucks that people aren’t respecting your feelings

but ultimately you can’t control what people do with your own characters and how they will interpret your work, you can’t control thoughts, feelings, triggers and boundaries other than your own

which brings me to the next bit: boundaries. What are they? They’re something for you to set up and control. A very valid boundary is saying things like “I’m extremely uncomfortable with erotic works of my characters, please don’t send it to me”

But that is not what Keath (Yaelokre) has done

Yaelokre has asked their majorly underage fans to go out of their way to send and to report them “inappropriate, offensive material and or misinfo” about their work.

This is incredibly unprofessional and dangerous, as they’re sending minors into adult spaces to report nsfw and to play vigilante and go “pedo hunting”, as if this is a fun thing minors can do as a hobby.

Sure, the artist most likely didn’t intend this to happen, and they didn’t specifically say minors should report nsfw media, but the post was seen by more than 90.000 people, so of course minors will take it as a call to action to “hunt” for it, bringing themselves in danger.

What’s worse, not only is Yaelokre abusing copyright laws (even if they registered their characters for copyright, other people can still create fan works of their characters under “fair use”), they have been completely silent about their fans’ behavior, essentially greenlighting harassment, violent and graphic threats being sent to anyone who is or might be upsetting Kaeth

TW // disturbing threats , mention of violence and genitalia mutilation

it’s really interesting, Yaelokre wants control over the fandom and people who make art, yet it is superfans who accuse people who made those (currently 6) erotic artworks and those who defend the right to make such art as unable to control themselves.

this begs the question, why isn’t the creator saying anything? Because they’re currently blocking everyone who even mentions those threats. This confirms Yaelokre is aware of what is happening, but they will not control their violent fan base because they’re helping them take control of their boundaries like “vigilantes”

And while these toxic superfans have only gone after the artworks of erotic nature which exist in the fandom, since the artist has stated that “misinfo and offensive material” also upsets them, it will only be a matter of time before even genuine, sfw only fans are going to feel the wrath of them eventually

Because as long as something exist that could make someone uncomfortable, it’s bad, which also raises the question why art is made at all then since any art can make someone uncomfortable

I would also like to mention that this is an incredibly toxic way of handling your own work. Original characters might be your own, but they are merely an extension of yourself and not you, nor your “children”. Yaelokre has implied that this mistreatment of their OCs is akin to actual child abuse. This will absolutely lead to people sending “offensive” art to child protection organizations too, hindering their job

And I completely understand how upsetting it is to see material you don’t like, many big and small artists have voiced their feelings about it, but this attempt to coercively control people who make art the or an artist doesn’t like will only lead to them crashing and burning out.

It is far easier to avoid nsfw, fanart/fanfics and pretend it doesn’t exist because you really can’t fight against it, once you make art for others, once your work is “famous” enough that it accumulates millions of subscribers and fans all over the world and go on tours, then it’s no longer your own little project

And if you can’t handle the responsibility of being tactful with your fandom (stop treating total strangers in the fandom like they’re your friends, they are NOT) and attempt to control them because your feelings were hurt, then maybe you should step back from social media, let someone else take care of it and focus on creating what you like away from all the triggering things that can upset you

and really though, was it really necessary to go nuclear over 6 pieces of erotic artwork?

needless to say however, please leave the artist alone. We can’t force them to see how damaging this behavior is to themselves and to the existence of (their) fandom as a whole, they’ll have to come to this realization themselves.

once you, as creator, attempt to sue someone for an idea, headcanons, theories or art you don’t like, then there will be no fandom left

[myfandomrealitea]

I know this topic is extremely controversial and extremely nuanced and blah blah blah and I'm lighting a rock on fire and bashing my own skull in with it, but....

Sometimes. People are just ready to die.

That's it. I firmly believe assisted suicide, at absolute minimum for the terminally ill, should be a universal concept. People want to die with dignity. People want to die with comfort. People want to die feeling like themselves.

When someone is ready to die, peacefully, we should let them.

[enemywasp]

Alright so someone on tiktok sent me a link to a compiled list of arguments against proshippers and so I wanted to put a sort of brief response of my own thoughts of each point.

Long post warning!

"Proshippers are non-offending minor attracted people in a fresh paint of coat"

What a start, am I right? Okay so first off this is a huge generalisation, not every proshipper engages with or is even comfortable with anything that sexualises fictional children, or ships them with adults. And of those that do ship adult/minor ships, it doesn't always mean they're attracted to the character themselves or gains any sexual pleasure from that.

They then went on to say that although they might be non-offending, they still fantasise about and romanticise children- in the case of proshippers by creating art and stories. And I am not personally educated enough on how people's minds works to go in depth here, but I do know a lot of pedophilic thoughts can be intrusive and unwanted. And I would much rather people engage in this and deal with their thoughts through fiction where no actual children are harmed, than actually go touch a real child or engage is any form of CSEM.

“People can draw and ship whatever they want!”

Here they went on to say that surely to ship and create content you must justify these things in some capacity regardless of them being fictional. And immediately I'd argue, the justification it that they're fictional. And that sometimes you want to read about things you'd never approve of in real life, it's a natural curiosity. And again, regardless of what the dark content is I would take someone engaging in fiction over harming a real person any day.

They compared this to alt-right groups and dark humour justifying racism and transphobia, etc. And whilst I think something we should always be aware of in fiction is stereotypes and how we may be representing people. Youtube videos like this are usually a type of propaganda that AIM to change people's mindsets and turn them against groups. Whereas fiction tells a story, some may have meanings and connections to real life, be a political piece, etc. Not everything is that serious and has a clear distinction from reality.

Think for example, reading/watching about murder and gore. More on that in a second.

"Fiction doesn't affect reality!"

I'm going to be honest I rolled my eyes at this as their main example was slenderman. If you don't know about that, those girls were schizophrenic. Anything could of set off and caused delusions, it just so happened to be fiction. Those girls needed help- not to just read purer content. They also basically brought up propaganda again, which is again deliberate and designed to warp peoples perceptions. Its based of lying and spreading misinformation and passing it as facts. The only thing I strongly believe can be directly harmful is stereotypes if not handled with care. But I think that's something for anyone who writes and consumes content should be aware of regardless of their stances.

Again here they implied that all proshippers are peodophiles. And that they normalise abuse of children. I'd also like to point out that most proshippers I've interacted with online have age boundaries to avoid interacting with minors depending on how graphic or sexual their content is.

"What do you think all stories about murder should stop existing?"

Here they basically argued that killing in media isn't the same as its not romanticised or condoned. YA Novels disagree- mafia stories being the most immediate example to spring to mind. Furthermore, morally grey villains. One of my favourite films is Mr Right. It's about a hitman killing people. Anna kendrick falls in love with him and its framed as a romantic comedy. Funny how its only fanfiction that's criticised like this? I actually have more thoughts on this if anyones interested.

Again they bring up kids not knowing adults pursuing children is wrong, and I'm questioning why children this young are unsupervised on the Internet. How young were you when you were allowed to watch anything with graphic blood or violence? This content isn't made for kids! Especially not anyone so young they can't seperate fiction from reality as most sites have a specific age you have to be to join. And I'm sorry to say it, but on websites and social media where adults can interact with kids, anything can be used to groom kids. (The real thing you should be mad about here is how there's no websites aimed just for children and safe spaces on the Internet anymore cause it can't be monetised as easily)

"Artists are allowed to draw and write about dark people"

They basically said, yes but it's not the same as promoting. Writing something under a romantic light and not saying "Don't do at home!" Isn't promoting. No ones encouraging these things in real life. Or rather, if they are its not because they're a proshipper but rather who they are as a person and their intentions.

The trans example they used is very extreme and honestly something I agree with a little more, fiction can definitely be used as an excuse to say and act out hateful and discriminatory things. Whilst I do think it's something we should discuss and unpack more, I'm not certain of my view on how I would fix this without risking silencing people talking about their experiences.

"Its not my responsibility to look after other people, just block me and the tags"

Here they threw all kinds of accusations. And says that we're making traumatised people jump through hoops to avoid getting retraumatised. I hate this argument, you know people have actual triggers they may not be able to avoid in real life? The world can't bend around you. And I am very sorry if any content online is traumatising to you, but someone could also be traumatised by a certain breed of dog and not want to see it. Should no one post dogs online ever again? A bald man reminds you of an abusive ex? Bald men get off the Internet! You see how this thing can just keep escalating? The tags and warnings are important because they're the best you can get. You can't control the world to protect everyone from everything ever. No ones forcing you to interact, and if you're on any algorithm based content that will encourage that content on your for your page more.

The only thing I think we should take from this is the reminder that warnings and tags are always important.

"You only care about censoring creativity"

Here they defend themselves that oh wouldn't you want freaks out the community! Which again immediately makes me lose respect for you, if you're just going to brand us all as freaks as an argument and generalize us.

No comment on that first line when you can easily argue antishipper do the same.

"Proshippers are not remotely innocent of targeted harrasement" Neither are antis. There's people who take things too far both sides and I'm not going to defend either for that.

"Real kids get assaulted and all you care about is censoring people online!"

Here they shout "oh I can care about both!" But what I don't think they realise is censorship can make it difficult for kids and to learn about how to speak up and to look for signs, or to speak up about their experiences. How do you plan on removing the topic from the Internet whilst also letting victims speak up? And people may want to write fiction based off their experiences. Who are you to go through it and proclaim what is too far, what romanticises it too much? More on this later.

"Antis are reducing my trauma"

They compared this to saying "date rape victims are reducing my trauma because they weren't taken advantage of in the same way as me" which is a disgusting parallel?? Date rape is still rape. Someone writing about something isn't the same as it happening. Although it can be used as harrasment, grooming, etc if directly addressed to you or being constantly sent to you, written about you. But the content existing in general? No.

"I'm coping"

Compared it to self harm, and such. Poetry and diaries are also used to write about your experiences and unpack trauma. Some of which may write it in an unrealistically positive light cause that's how they want to unpack it or explain those thoughts. And yes these things get posted online.

I can't imagine a single therapist or professional psychiatrist of any kind disapproving of creative writing because, again, it's much better than any alternatives of doing real harm to yourself or people around you. Although I do agree that if something is traumatising for you to read about and just upsets you further, be aware of your own boundaries but not everyone is the same so how are you going to police people's own thoughts and emotions.

Also I can't remember who or where as it was years ago now, but I have heard of people who actually realised they were being groomed or abused and just how bad it was through reading about it in a fanfic and seeing it in an outside perspective.

They also say to do it in private, but doesn't everyone on the Internet now have an understanding of finding a community and looking out for eachother and sharing experiences?

"There's more nuance here than just calling proshippers peodophiles"

Here they say no matter what it still comes down to whether it's ever okay to sexualise minors in certain contexts. And again, not every proshipper does this or is even comfortable with engaging in this kind of content. And further, no one is sexualising real minors in this context.

"I'm a proshipper and a minor tho!"

I'd agree minors should be wary of the spaces they're in but proship spaces aren't always necessarily sexual, graphic or 18+. Saying they're being groomed feels like you're watering down that term. I was a proshipper at age 13, I didn't interact with anyone online about it though, I didn't even know that was the term. I just came to the conclusion that it's just fiction all on my own. Minors aren't idiots.

At then end they talk about their own experience being groomed and I'm obviously not going to nitpick or criticise their experiences. I will point out that one person being bad and taking advantage of you and using content to do so doesn't mean everyone is like that. I am sorry to anyone who has been taken advantage of by someone who claims they're a proshipper though. There are people who have turned out to be horrible on both sides.

I am ill and it's late but I want to get this up sooner rather than later so please ask for clarification on anything. I'm always up for a discussion on this topic as I do believe some of these points do have merits at times and that this whole topic is not black and white

[hypnosleepe]

Thoughts of Pokephilia?

For followers and people that just stumble across this blog, what do you think of Pokephilia? a relationship between a human and pokémon, everyone opinion is valid btw!

[slowlyshamelesscolor]

What is Neutralship?

Neutralship, often known as ship-neutral, refers to those who are "neutral" or unconcerned with shipcourse. They may be pro- or anti-leaning, or completely unaligned.

Neutralship also means your anti harassment. That implies you will not bother someone about their fandom preferences, or pass judgment on their fantasies or ships.

Neufic - those who identify as neufic may be pro- or anti-leaning, or wholly unaligned; they are neutral on fiction and do not engage in ship discourse

And for short, we are called newts.

The purple flags are peacefic. The pink is neutralship.

Peacefic Emoji combos - ☮🦢, ☮📖, 🌈☮, 🌈🦢, 🦢🌙,

Neutralship emoji combos - 🎀 🫧, 🎀🌙 , 🫧🎀 , 🌈🎀, 🌈 🫧, 🌈🌙

Neufic emoji combos-  💎 🦋, 🌈💎, 💍🦋

[oddballism]

Adding on to my previous post about what’s not proshipping, I saw a post saying that shipping Riley from Inside Out 2 and Meilin from Turning Red was proshipping because Meilin was born in 1989 and Riley was born in the 2000s or 2010s, and excuse me but

That is not a correct reading of the situation at all

You know how people make crossovers all the time, including between medias that take place in different time periods?

When people do that, the characters are the same age as whatever they are in their original state, because they’ve been plucked out of it and into our metaphorical sandboxes

One of them is NOT aged up or down to meet the other character’s time period, because this is fandom and we do silly things that don’t make sense, because that’s the point of fandom

It’s like playing with Disney Princess dolls like they all know each other

That’s impossible because their movies takes place in different time periods. But that doesn’t matter, it’s just having fun

That’s what people shipping Riley and Meilin are doing. They’re plucking them from their respective time periods, WHEN THEY ARE BOTH 13 YEARS OLD, and shipping them

Because NOBODY shipping Meilin and Riley is shipping them as Meilin being 30 and Riley being 13! Nobody is doing that! You’re making up a problem that doesn’t exist!

Meilin and Riley have been magically taken out of the constrictions of their respective movies so they can interact. When they are the SAME AGE

They’re both awkward 13 year old girls. That’s the appeal of the ship. Like I said, nobody is shipping them with a huge age difference

[tyrianludaship]

is it fair to call people like this "hack writers" if the only way they find a relationship interesting is when it involves pedophilia, incest, cannibalism or necrophilia?

[dumplingprincessextraordinaire]

Okay I need some help and perspective from my fellows proshippers. This is gonna be messy and imperfect as it is.

I’ve been reading Waita Uziga’s works since I was kid/teen (I know, hardly minor safe but let’s be honest, we all know kids with unrestricted internet access consume wild stuff so I did) and it honestly helped my stress a lot. Namely his work “Maichan’s daily life” the absurdity and artistic expression of it really took me out of my irl stresses. So maichan itself the manga is not actually the problem, but the author is.

I eventually learned that this author made a hentai based on a REAL victim that you’ve probably heard of—junko furuta. I mean as in he made a jerk-off work based on a real young girl’s trade go/murder/SA story and that sickens me. Especially as a woman and sa survivor myself. I can’t imagine someone making corn out of my story and then my friends and family having to see that.

So that’s why I feel like I really can’t enjoy Maichan without feeling a bitter taste due to what the creator did. This is especially so because the whole thing about proshipping is keeping fiction and reality separate, which this author certainly didn’t do. And that’s horrible. I don’t know if I can really enjoy this work knowing what he did and I feel a little iffy when I see other proshippers post about it bc you know we’re already on thin ice as it is. That’s why I want some thoughts and perspective. Because I’m not sure how to feel. Like at what point can separate the art from the artist, or when we should just throw the whole thing away? I know there’s artists and creators who have done so much worse (R Kelly, Roman Polanski) and we rip the individuals to shreds while still consuming their work so idk. Not trying to make excuses, just trying to see the whole picture on this discussion.

[utdrmv-confession-box]

Is Chara x Frisk and Frisk x Asriel proshipping? I genuinely can’t tell. I do not ship it and have no want to ship it I’m just wondering if it’s something I should block people over

This is the one I wanted to answer myself (I’m tired so I’ll make this quick).

It depends on their depiction of Frisk and Toriel’s (and Asgore’s but he’s usually ignored) relationship, really. If they portray it in a way where Frisk and Toriel very much are adoptive family, then yes that does make both ships problematic, as Frisk, Asriel and Chara would then be siblings.

The unfortunate part is I don’t see many artists who draw these ships focus on Frisk’s relationship with Toriel at all really, so it’s really hard to tell if they’re making it unnecessarily gross or not.

[yourfavouritemotherlyanti]

It honestly makes me so sad whenever you find an artist on the internet who does have decent skills atleast for drawing but instead uses said talents to draw idiotic sexual taboo-fantasy fetish crap or whatever, but as much as that pains me, atleast I now that I still have better morality than these scumfucks lol<3. Anyways, please block and report the Tumblr Blog at the handle of "Kawacy" along with any other social medias this degenerate may have a platform on♡. You don't deserve to be out in the open where normal people can spot you in public, you filthy animal. To be fair though, Kawacy does have the typical cookie-cutter faux-anime style look that I've seen 1,000 other times already so it's not like we're losing anything<3.

[kiwisandpearls]

I am very much uncomfortable with shipping aromantic characters as an aromantic person, it reminds me of how a lot of people think im some sort of weirdo for not wanting romantic feelings about people and would like to claim I just “haven’t found the right person.”

BUT,

I still think people should be allowed to ship canonically aromantic characters without immediately being dubbed as being arophobic. Like sure if they are being bigoted towards actual aromantic people? Then they’re arophobic! But if they’re just shipping aromantic characters? That is not a big deal and not the biggest problem in the world.

[fertilize-my-eggs]

I say this and I'll say again because I already addressed this in the past.

If you DON'T like problematic dead dove content... Maybe just maybe you click their profile, block them and move on with your day as a NORMAL person.

I know I had people call me manyyyy names, called me a pedo for writing a fanfic about two fictional characters that don't exist AND NO ONE WAS HARM OR IS A IRL PERSON.

As a victim of online grooming, I don't support pedophile nor do I condone it, I have been making problematic fanfics for two years. I'll never think of it or commit a crime because THAT IS A CRIME!! People need to take a reality check and stop calling anything pedophilia. A pedophile will be going after children not fictional characters not loli or shota.

A pedophile will only be interesting in children not adult short women/men.

Maps have made accounts openly and want to hurt children but proshippers are the problem🙄 we are the problem for writing/drawing problematic content so does that mean the creators like south park and many other shows and movies that have taboo jokes are they a problem too?🤔🤔... I get it there are some bad people in every fandom but telling a victim who copes in writing and making an imaginary story up, you calling them a pedo makes you look like you don't care about us victims at all.

" WELL I'M A VICTIM AND YOU'RE USING MY TRAUMA. " Buddy, I have trauma too and I used writing a coping mechanism and let me tell you, I've used writing as a way to escape my trauma. Because if you didn't know there people who are victims too and also write it as a way to express themselves.

And not to mention I always love thinking creatively about dead dove fanfic because all of my fanfic are make up and also we have weird kinks and fetishes like I'm into ddlg and age gap and many manyyyy mess up taboo expect for vore, scat and diaper fetishes but I'm not going after people who enjoy it.

I don't look for it and scream at the person who enjoy it by saying." DON'T DRAW SHIT, IT'S MAKE ME UNCOMFORTABLE. " No because I stay away and mind my business, people need to learn to mind their business and block the content that make themselves uncomfortable but I guess not 😮‍💨😮‍💨 it's exhausting being a dead dove writer/artist.

[myfandomrealitea]

That post you made about Harry Potter and how to not financially support and fund the franchise and put more money in Joanne's pockets felt like a lie because I swear I got the impression that even that wasn't allowed when the whole thing started

To be clear; I stopped. Completely. I compartmentalized it all and just stopped interacting with anything Harry Potter online whatsoever. But I always wished it would be fine to still be able to do certain fandom things without supporting her, but people were saying that even using the tag or reading the fanfiction or making fanart was still supporting the ip and not letting it die completely as a topic on the internet was indirectly putting money in her pockets.

It wasn't until I came across a post from a queer woman from somewhere in the global south with heavy OCD and intrusive thoughts or something like that, commenting on how hostile of a thing it became for someone of her affliction; the way people were treating it like do or die. Pointing out that no matter how much trans people and allys cut off their support of her, she has other large means of income that we won't be able to touch, and there will still always be transphobic homophobic Harry Potter fans that will continue to support her actively, putting that money in her pockets. Another thing she mentioned was the treatment of Harry Potter and Joannes bigotry in contrast to the treatment of FNAF and the creators bigotry. And lastly something about the USAmericanized nature of it? I don't really remember that part but I think I understood it at the time I read it (maybe it was something about all the other countries the IP is popular in who are probably more conservative and unaware or caring of the issues with her who will still put money in her pockets, or maybe it was something about American fans fixating and posing the support of her as the ultimate battlefield of Trans Rights to other queer and trans individuals trying to be quiet fans who are facing Much Worse in their countries)

Anyways after that I briefly started reading ao3 fanfic again, just put a filter for anything before 2019 or so, and then my interest more gently fizzled out.

I can't remember what my point is anymore, maybe just to bring these arguments to your attention(also I am not arguing against the financial boycott or ending of support for this woman through her ip).

Harry Potter will never stop earning money. That's just the flat reality of it; I mean, look at the likes of Elvis and the original Sherlock Holmes books and every other 'dead' media that's still earning money. Short of making Harry Potter an illegal piece of media, yes, there will still always be a number of people giving her money.

The goal is to give her less money. To turn Harry Potter from a prominent, profitable cashcow into a defunct piece of media that only select groups are still clinging to. To make it so that JK Rowling has to choose between paying her bills and funding anti-trans movements.

When something stops bringing in a certain amount of profit, studios start looking elsewhere. When a cashcow starts drying up, they stop trying to milk it as hard. Which in turn means less productions for JK Rowling to collect her pocketmoney from.

What would you rather; JK Rowling getting $100,000 or JK Rowling only getting $10,000?

Something is better than nothing. Damage reduction is better than open exposure. If everyone just rolled over and gave up because "things will keep happening anyway" the world will literally be a rancid, fetid wasteland of bigotry and violence.

I'd much rather watch JK Rowling fizzle out into a bitter old wench sustained only by the dogged support of other stubborn bigots than watch people willingly disregard and condone bigotry because its "easier" and "she'll be a bigot anyway."

I'd much rather JK Rowling only have $10,000 to donate to shitty movements over $72,000. Shitty movements can do a lot less with a lot less money.

[buildacatboy]

it kills me that propshippers would suggest toxic yaoi falls under their umbrella, let alone antis agreeing. Like ...... How do I put this....

90% of proshipping is acts that are FELONIES. FELONY! Pedophilia, incest, rape, beastiality, get it? SO WHY ON GODS EARTH DOES TOXIC RELATIONSHIPS FIT INTO THAT???? The short answer is that it doesn't and you're all fucking crazy but the long answer is that both sides enjoy manipulating people and making them think or behave a certain way. People like to control others. You're definitely wrong for doing it about this though.

I think, also, it is mostly because with proshippers, every relationship they do tends to be toxic because it involves a felony so TR was added by extension? But it shouldn't be. You can have a toxic relationship without it requiring a tip to the FBI my brothers. Fuck you all and goodnight

[sparklywatercolors]

thinking about how 🐱 wrote geniunuely harmful stereotypes about my cultures and then when I called her out she told me she knows better than me. Sorry making a drunk Russian man beating on his Ukrainian wife who takes it and is subservient is uh.... yeah uh what the fuck are you doing. She made them because she was inspired by me and my culture too which is WHAT???? 😭 My bf was literally like wait no way that's actually rly horrible. She's also written other harmful things about them that I'm like gIRL.

Like yes I know I'm a third gen slav with an American upbringing and some other cultures in my blood now but fuck 🐱.

Like my best friend has Slavic ocs and they're rly cute and have magic powers which is cool as hell!!!! and she asked me if she's leaning on harmful shit, like we wrote our characters and then their cultures not what fucking 🐱 did with them.

🐱 talks about stealing people's ocs bc of whatever bullshit.... Time to fuck with her and rework her characters tenfold /j (I'm not actually like that lmao)