#tulpas are invalid

[bloodonvalentine]

i wish i wasn't a system. i wish i could be normal. live a normal life. remember things i need to remember and forget the things i should forget. i wish i wasn't a system.

[bloodonvalentine]

hey @sophieinwonderland you should totally read this and learn what an awful excuse for a human you are

actually, since i already commented on your post about tulpas and how they pissed me off; im gonna do it again. in detail.

note: i am a former buddhist, i live in a buddhist country. (95% of thais are buddhists) and pretty much been surrounded by it. im asian. saying it before people jump at me because im terrified as shit

as i mentioned, tulpas are stolen and bastardized completely from a tribe of tibetan buddhists, and the practice itself isn't even a system thing. while thai buddhism and tibetan buddhism are different in their own way, i am very fucking pissed off that they just saw the concept of a thoughtform spirit that helps you meditate, overcome your fear and guide you to nirvana (because that's the main purpose of buddhism) and turn them into "oh! we make alters because we can due to our meditation and we're spiritual so that totally excuses using a generally closed practice! we're not harming anyone!" total bullshit.

i don't want (and sorry if i'm a bit mean) those bigoted fucks stealing basically my culture since im attached to buddhism in general, i grew up with it. and "tulpa systems" slapping it on themselves for the sake of being "unique". i have seen countless comments and posts about how its always the white/non asian people that say "no its not a closed practice, its not cultural appropriation :) actually you should be glad we're appreciating your culture in the first place" fuck off! appreciating culture is fine, but you bastardize it so much and dumb it down to just "making alters/imaginary friends" are you just hearing yourself? are you stupid? are you braindead? god, im getting so angry again.

i have also seen "tulpamancers" insulting actual asians like me who speak against tulpas, saying that we're just "asian token of a character" or that we're "closed minded" and should accept these assholes who dont know what theyre doing into my culture and blatantly disrespecting it, spitting on it and just taking one practice that fits their narrative. wow, talk about being appreciative while half of your community does shit like this to actual buddhists, huh? real nice of you. way to go, you cultural appropriating fucks. /vneg

i cannot count how many times asian culture is so whitewashed on the internet, people that just take our tradition and do whatever the hell they want with it, including making a system out of thoughtforms, which is not possible whatsoever. and for what? FOR WHAT? for your own sick entertainment and enjoyment of having a imaginary friend in your head? try dissociating so hard you cry yourself to sleep you absolute pillock. this is a very angry submission, but it just frustrates me so much. all of the insulting "yous" are directed towards "tulpamancers" that they proudly call themselves. by the way. sorry if it sounded like it was directed at you, im just so angry at the moment.

one last thing. Stop. Using. The Term. Tulpa. For your system. Please!!!!. tulpa systems are not a thing and will never be. End of story. Nothing will change that. Endos fuck off. im sick of your shit. thanks for reading my angry rant.

-azriel for the majority of this, rox/virus proofreading some of the parts, thanks for letting us vent ^^

i dont have much to add, please read this ^^

[the-call-center]

Yknow, it REALLY burns my biscuits when endos say that you don't have to have trauma to have DID or OSDD, a literal dissociative disorder caused by trauma. Like either accept that you have trauma (and you don't have to tell anyone about it or try and delve into it, no one is asking you to uncover your trauma, that's something better done with a therapist) or that you're just being a "system" of your own free will. You can't have your cake and eat it too

Endos/supporters DNI, I don't want to hear it

[bupsafr3ak]

"Real Systems cant have 100 headmates or more w bodily minor"

"Ou cant have (fictive of a recent source) because this and that"

Bitch, do you know how a system works?? We don’t choose and if the headmate will appear or not, we have no control over the number of headmates, and yes, fictitious they take time to form but tulpas exist, stop looking for reasons to invalidate other systems just because you insecure, Stop projecting your insecurities on others 😭😭

[sirenium]

Greetings and salutations to trans men who are lesbians. You aren't straight if you don't identify as such, and you're certainly not invalidating other experiences! There's no one way to experience being a trans man, nor is there a wrong way to express being a lesbian.

Hello and welcome to people who otherwise identify as lesboys for whatever reason! Are you multigender? Cool! butch who also considers themself a man? Tubular! Genderfluid? Rad! Man adjacent regardless of gender? Wicked! Keep being you!

Guten Tag, Guten Abend (good day, good evening) to gaybians! Don't let nobody tell you your identity is invalid. You're allowed to use all the labels that feel comfortable to you!

Make some noise for the people who use/identify with xenogenders! It's your gender, so do whatever you want with it! This includes those of us who are xenic adults, as well.

Can we get a warm welcome for endo systems? How about tulpas? You're not racist or ableist for having a different system origin! Mixed origin? Quoigenic? Any other type of origin? Y'all are rad, too. Keep being you.

Keep vibing, everyone I mentioned here, as well as those with any other good faith identities I missed!

[bloodonvalentine]

Mixed origin isn't possible. There may be ALTERS who formed of other causes, but the system is ultimately formed from trauma. "Mixed origins" is a mislabelling of traumagenic or "endogenic" depending on the person. The only valid and POSSIBLE way to form a system is through trauma.

Also I find saying traumagenic systems excluding people who are very likely faking "ableist" very funny. Traumagenic systems are REAL systems, none of your "mixed origin" or "endo" bs.

Hope this helped.

"Endos dni, mixed origins included" just feels kind of ableist to me. Oh, you utilized the same set of skills/mindset that one would use to memorize a skill or language to make a headmate/you have (a) headmate(s) that didn't originate from trauma? I don't care if you're otherwise traumagenic, don't talk to me! You must be PURELY TRAUMAGENIC to deserve my support!

[starscatteredsky]

Can I get a tips and tricks post for jackalope or rabbitkin? I've been feeling very invalid lately

tips for a jackalope or rabbit!

pt: tips for a jackalope or rabbit!

make/commision a therian mask!

make/buy some other gear!

practice some hopping and walking quadrobics!

wear clothes the colour of your fur!

snack on some lettuce or other “rabbit food”!

make a little blanket and pillow den!

collect antlers or horns!

wear soft or fuzzy clothes

make some rabbit or jackalope friends

learn to voice act or mimic, jackalopes are known for mimicking human voices!

have a good day/night! -🩸

[image description:

a DNI banner with the background being the promotional image for Little Nightmares 2. The writing reads:

"DNI: radqueers, proshippers, radfems/TERFs, antikin/antitherian, homophobic/ ableist/ anti ACAB/ transphobic/ rasist/ antisemitic/ xenophobic/ antitheist/ anti athiest/ bigoted in any fashion, NSFW/sh/ed/cringe centered blog, fakeclaimer

Before you interact: We are pro mspec gays/lesbians, anti endo/tulpa "systems", enjoy MCYT/DSMP, pro self diagnoses with extensive research, multiple alters are punks/ anarchists"

end description]

[hedgehogkiss]

No, because I'm looking in the endogenic / tulpa / tulpagenic tag to find posts for my friend (he's going to create a system) and there's ALWAYS an anti endo being annoying on OUR tags, why are you posting on #tulpas if you're going to invalidate tulpas ???

[bloodonvalentine]

yappa yappa yappa your mouth is moving much like a rat's

Anti-Endos Don't Deserve a Safe Space!

Alright, if you saw this it in the tags, you can guess what I'm responding to.

Anti-endos and neutrals need to learn that anti-endos are just bigots and bullies looking for an outgroup to dehumanize and send hate to. They don't care about science. They don't care if anything they say is true. They only care about hurting people for being different!

Since when is Tibetan Buddhism a closed culture? Let alone a "VERY" closed culture?

In reality, Tibetan Buddhism is an open religion and a proselytizing on that encourages people around the globe to join! And the Dalai Lama, the highest spiritual authority in Tibetan Buddhism, has even encouraged Christians and the West to use Tibetan Buddhist meditations.

“Many Christians tell me they believe in Buddhist meditation, which can be learned by Christians. We teach right attitude. We teach meditation, which can be quite deep. These would be things that the West can take, and I think it is clear that Buddhists should practice certain Western methods, too.”

These are the words of the religions' highest authority figure!

Stop trying to declare the Tibetan Buddhist religion closed just so you can use them as a talking point to spread hate!!!

Since this is invading inclusive and pro-endo tags, as always, my response is going into anti-endo tags. If anyone takes issue with this, please hold your own community accountable for invading our spaces and take it up with @the-helside-sys.

I don't believe anti-endos deserve a safe space to spread hate but I'm willing to allot them one so long as they aren't breaching into inclusive and pro-endo spaces and aren't tagging hate posts like this:

But I'm actually not done yet!

I want to respond to another one of their posts!

First, this isn't true. A scientific theory has to be testable, and has to be tested and supported by evidence. But it's not necessarily "generally accepted as truth."

And with soft sciences, what constitutes a theory can be a bit questionable. See many of Freud's psychoanalytical theories.

This isn't really relevant. It's just an important point I want to bring up for people putting too much stock into psychological theories as if they're accepted facts.

Structural dissociation is meant to cover a very specific form of multiplicity.

Endogenic systems aren't ignoring the theory of structural dissociation because the theory of structural dissociation does NOT support anti-endo claims.

The author of the theory have stated that it may be possible for self-conscious dissociative parts of the personality to exist through other means, citing hypnosis and mediumship as examples:

The theory of structural dissociation's own creators are, at worst, neutral on endogenic systems acknowledging that trauma may not be the only way for self-conscious "dissociative parts" to form.

And you will not find a single paper saying the only way to be plural is through trauma. It doesn't exist!

Anti-endo views are not backed or supported by science or experts in any way!

...

Now, back to the title... Like I said... anti-endos don't deserve a safe space. But this isn't about what anyone deserves to me. It's about escalation.

I'm willing to let anti-endos keep to their bigotry in their own spaces for the time being so long as they behave and keep it there.

But continuing to post hate in our tags is unacceptable. Currently, I avoid posting in anti-endo tags to keep the peace except for posts like this. And even in posts like this, I don't post in DID or OSDD tags out of respect even when discussing those topics.

But it's certainly something I could do. Were anti-endos to continue to erode boundaries between spaces and encourage their followers to invade inclusive and pro-endo tags, I would have no problem appropriately tagging my posts that are about DID with "#DID" and similar tags. It wouldn't be against the rules of the site because my posts are about the topic I tag it with. And why maintain a boundary if it's only going to be respected by one side?

So to people who feel it's important to maintain separation between communities... I'd highly advise you do better at policing your own community's crosstagging so that we can all maintain our safe spaces, whether you feel we deserve to or not. Thank you! 😊

(This applies to both the explicitly endogenic and pro endo tags, as well as the plural and plurality tags given that "plural" was a term coined by non-disordered systems and is inherently inclusive.)

[bloodonvalentine]

real punks aren't ableist fakers

[polyfrag-kero]

why are you so heavily against endogenic systems? /genq (using endogenic as a catch-all for any non-traumagenic system, DID as a catch-all for DID/OSDD/PDID/etc) endogenic systems don't (or almost never) try to claim they have DID, alters/being a system is one of the symptoms of DID. there's many many articles on how plurality can form without DID, and that yes, trauma is needed for DID to form. but endos don't have that.

just generally wondering what your reasoning is + why you seem so hostile about it ("endos fuck off" seeming highly hostile) (not trying to come off as rude, attacking, etc etc, just genuinely trying to understand.)

(TW for grooming, manipulation)

first off, thanks for genuinely asking and not attacking. and honestly, we mainly don't like endos since we were groomed by so many when we were just starting to begin discovering our system again. we were told our trauma "wasn't enough" to be DID (even though we had been diagnosed with it), and that we had to be a tulpa system instead. as a result, we denied all our trauma, even the stuff we were actively going through, and it did so much damage to us. many of the endos around us were also very anti-recovery; they didn't believe the trauma was bad enough, so they encouraged spiritual shit instead of therapy and healing. multiple endos even tried to purposefully make us split a sexual alter so they could sleep with us one day

when we did finally realize that, yes, the trauma was bad enough, and that, yes, the DID diagnosis was correct, and that endos were just harming our mental health, we were basically shunned from the system spaces we were in. i personally don't remember much from this time, but i remember that once we started saying we didn't want to interact with endos for our own mental health, we were sent threats and called ableist and slurs and other shit. we weren't even considered "anti endo" at the time, we were just trying to separate ourselves from these people that were causing us harm

this isnt the only horrible experience we had with endos, but some of the other stuff gets a bit personal. but basically, endos did more harm than good to us, and we don't want to associate with them as a result

we're not the only system that's had horrible experiences with endos. they're notorious for sending threats to anti endos, calling them horrible names, etc. we don't support harassment. endos have also told trauma victims that their trauma "wasn't enough" to be DID, and they had to be endo, completely invalidating what that person has gone through and possibly putting them in danger of being re-traumatized/abused again. personally, we didn't even realize we were actively being abused since endos downplayed everything we talked about

so yeah, it's mainly personal to us, but we have a lot of reasons for not supporting endos. we don't interact with their stuff (never on purpose), so we don't want them interacting with our stuff. that's it

- 🐀

[clover-cdd-confessions]

Here's a link, by the way. The document is current, the post itself isn't.

https://www.tumblr.com/guardianssystem/732772365744979968/tumblr-post-of-our-endogenic-and-non-traumagenic?source=share

Actually look at the links instead of complaining about it being a Tumblr post. There was even a study done by professionals on reddit regarding tulpas.

Real professionals, by the way. And Dr. Jamie Marich supports other causes of plurality besides trauma. You can make a space for CDDs without invalidating other types of plurality. Again, plural includes ALL systems not just traumagenic ones so if you say endos dni, please stop using plural tags.

I've read the document multiple times. I don't remember the specifics, but I know that each time I read it, I remember why I wasn't convinced by it.

Send me the specific notes/studies that prove systems can form from things other than trauma, but I'm not willing to expend the emotional energy to reread this entire thing seeing as I already have, and I have too much brainfog to spend my spoons on reading the entire document again. For the last time, don't just send a study ABOUT them, send me one that actually proves they're real. It's easier for me to look at things when you have something more specific that you're referring to.

Only engaging with the study part of this. Do not debate me on systems using plural terms. The only systems are traumagenic ones, sooo...your issue with me using "plural" is moot.

[sophieinwonderland]

"There's no scientific backing for endogenic systems and tulpas" says the Lemur Therian

I'm sorry, I didn't realize Mr. Lemur that you needed scientific evidence to support people's identities and experiences.

So um, just for the rest of the class, @that-lemur, can you show us the proof that you are, in fact, a lemur internally?

Because without scientific backing, I just don't know why anyone should believe you, by your standards... 🤷‍♀️

Oh wait.

When it's your identity, your position is...

Got it!

Anyway, reminder that the Alterhuman community is inclusive. It has always been inclusive since the term was coined, including plural and walk-in identities. (Walk-ins generally referring to a type of spiritual headmate who walk in to a system.)

So yeah, if you're routinely posting in inclusive spaces, people will probably assume you're inclusive and safe to interact with.

Now, I find it pretty ridiculous that someone in the alterhuman community is using a lack of scientific basis to argue someone's identity is invalid.

But I also need to say that this factually incorrect!

Practically every source, including dissociative experts, have confirmed that endogenic and non-disordered plurality exists or at least may be possible. Anti-endos have yet to produce even a single doctor who has said otherwise.

And more recently, there was an AMA with psychiatrists researching tulpas in an fMRI study for Stanford University. One of their big findings was changes in the brains of tulpa systems during possession of limbs.

This is actual, neurological data.

Beyond that, here's a big document of other research and studies related to endogenic systems.

I could go all day with pro-endo sources. But here's the bigger thing you need to understand.

Bigotry like this has no place in the alterhuman community. Because if you decide that someone's identity isn't valid because they don't have "scientific backing," others will see that as permission to say the same about you.

The system medicalist ideology of requiring scientific validation is harmful to all alterhumans, not just endogenic systems.

[mynameistakensadtimes]

Unpopular opinions

╭ ˚₊‧⁺⋆♱

♱ ┊➞ NSFW/18+ accounts are weird

♱ ┊➞ Not everything needs to be sexualized

♱ ┊➞ Minors should not take part in 18+ anything

♱ ︎┊➞ Littles in a system SHOULD NOT be able to see NSFW/18+ anything

♱ ┊➞ DID is a real thing and endos/tulpas need to get help for whatever they have

♱ ┊➞ Age regression IS NOT a kink

♱ ┊➞ Self-shippers don't hurt anyone UNLESS they start acting like a pro-shipper

♱ ︎┊➞ Pro-shipping IS NOT a coping mechanism

♱ ┊➞ Xenogenders/neopronouns aren't "cringe" you're just a hateful bitch

♱ ┊➞ You can be trans and transphobic just like you can be gay and homophobic

♱ ┊➞ If you can't multitask don't try. You'll overwhelm yourself

♱ ︎┊➞  If you bully systems for being a system you're weird. Replace that with any other mental illness.

╰ ˚₊‧⁺⋆♱

— ♱ IMPORTANT INFO

╭ ˚₊‧⁺⋆♱

DNI list

> Homophobic, Transphobic, Xenophobic, Islamophobic, etc.

> Misogynistic

> Racist, Sexist, Ableist, Discrimination, etc.

> Invalidates A Person's Pronouns / Gender / Identity

> Pedophile, Sexualizes Minors, Jokes About R×pe, etc.

Supports, participates, tolerates, or justifies any of the above.

> Proshippers

> Comshippers

> Anyone who watches and SUPPORTS the shows Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss

> Endogenic DID/OSDD 'systems'

> Tulpa DID/OSDD 'systems' 

> NSFW will be being blocked!

> We also prefer to not interact with minors

╰ ˚₊‧⁺⋆♱

[snezhnayan-nights]

What if I start using syscourse-unaligned AND pro-endo out of spite because holy fucking shit?

Hey guys, I'm unaligned pro-endo and believe in endogenic plurals. However I believe them to be quite different in comparison to OSDDID systems.

Due to the fact OSDDID is a trauma-based disorder and plurality is not really a disorder just a label for your experiences.

I do believe in OSDDID systems who refer to themself as endogenic for whatever reason.

Maybe they use "endo terms" to describe themself, they're mixed origin, or they view their OSDDID and plurality as separate things.

If labelling yourself as such is beneficial to you, then that's great!

Even so, I do see many flaws with the community and really feel like they should be addressed and solved.

Spreading misinformation on OSDDID (in general actually, there is a lot of misinfo in pro-endo spaces). Like OSDDID isn't caused by trauma, how the ToSD is invalid because of this one guy who abused his patients, many misunderstandings how OSDDID works, etc.

The many pro-tulpas tossing POC that speak out away (meanwhile favouring POC that are even mildly pro-tulpa). Saying how it isn't appropriation and the anti-tulpa (the term) just want to tear the community apart, and many other accusations.

And many others that are more on the personal scale. Such as invalidating trauma, speculating that someone is endogenic, indirectly banning of talking about the struggles of being a system, etc.

I firmly believe OSDDID is trauma-based (more like it's already supported by many studies).

I also dislike it whenever I see an endo plural try to prove otherwise or try to prove there is another cause by nitpicking the DSM-V-TR or something.

You do not need to prove anything about OSDDID to make yourself seem valid, or at least, doing that really doesn't benefit you.

Is that enough "fucking over" endogenic systems for you?

[muzzled-kelevra]

Fuck Off To People Who Think...

That introjects are their sources. [News flash, they're not.]

That endogenics, tulpas, and any "non-trauma origins" are real and valid.

That endogenics, tulpas, and any "non-trauma origins" have any correlation with OSDDID/CDD. [Not the same thing at all.]

That alters can't be evil, rude, or abusive. [Yes, many alters have trauma. That doesn't mean they are "angels who do nothing wrong they're just misguided" all the time.]

That some alters shouldn't be locked away. [If there is genuine risk of harm to the body or other alters, do what you need to do.]

That systems who are introject-heavy or have hundreds or thousands of alters are invalid.

That you need a headspace/inner world.

That you need to go through abuse to have OSDDID.

That problematic alters don't exist.

That you are invalid because you don't know who is fronting, have fragments, and/or have no host.

Absolutely not. All of these are incorrect, and the list goes on. Have a good day.