#troy rants

[whump-in-the-closet]

hey guys quick rant

my boss is being blatantly homophobic, saying the "woke left" ruined her local Shakespeare production...because someone who was nonbinary...was in it. Also, she just referred to gay people as "those homosexuals" in this really disgusted voice.

what the fuck

what the fuck

this is such bullshit

what do i even do? like...how am i supposed to react to that? i mean all i can do is keep working and pretend i didn't hear her, but that feels like a betrayal to myself and others. it's demoralizing to work here but i can't leave, it's hard enough to get a job where i live as it is. But as someone who's proudly queer, this is such a bad environment to be in (i don't think my boss realizes that though...there's no way she knows and is still making those comments)

anyway its monday. what the fuckkk

[kurzler]

in my opinion, many modern greek retellings/stories inspired by greek mythology don't fail because they're inaccurate. they fail because they have nothing new to say.

i don't mind changes to the original myths, as long as they make sense and they have a narrative purpose! i understand that making changes is sometimes necessary to convey a certain narrative, especially to modern audiences.

is epic the musical mythologically accurate? hell no! but the changes serve to tell a specific story and to convey a certain message. also, epic the musical is self aware about its "inaccuracies". and the music just bangs.

is hadestown accurate? no! does it make the change that I always dread, removing the kidnapping from the hades/persephone myth? yeah. but hadestown is barely about them, and it uses greek mythology as a "narrative frame" to tell a certain story. it has a point. it has a message.

what are stories like lore olympus trying to say? what is the messagge of the hundredth persephone/hades retelling? what are we supposed to take from them? "don't listen to your mother she's a bitch"? "mothers are irrational and you should forsake her for a man"? very feminist.

why are we still doing the medusa "feminist" retellings? it's BEEN done. too many times. and they're ALL the same. it's a worse crime than being bad: they are boring.

i'm tired of retellings that are just "what if this very famous story was THE OPPOSITE and the protagonist was an ASSHOLE the whole time and the villain was MISUNDERSTOOD and the real VICTIM" okay but why. why would that be the case. what's the point of the story you want to tell. or do you just want to use shock value.

of course, i dislike retellings that are so different from the myth that they go AGAINST the spirit/message of the original, because in that case what's even the point of retelling the myth? just tell an original story. but i would take stabbed poseidon and capitalist hades any day over the same basic story of medusa being a girlboss or demeter being bad because of... reasons?

tl;dr: stop being unoriginal and tell a good story. or at least an entertaining one. i beg you

[therandomfandomme]

We're all going feral over the whole "Mercy? Mercy?" which is so valid of us, but the way mercy comes back as a theme in this final saga is really interesting to me, because before this, Odysseus is asked for mercy, for forgiveness:

"Old king, our leader is dead

You've destroyed the serpent's head

Now the rest of us are no longer a threat

Old king, forgive us instead

So that no more blood is shed

Let's have open arms instead"

"No"

He has become Poseidon, the one that first forced him into believing that mercy isn't something he can afford ("Look what you turned me into"), which is made doubly poignant with Eurymachus echoing the open arms of Polites ("Greet the world with open arms"). Now I'm not saying he should have forgiven the suitors for what they were planning on doing, however, this interaction directly informs this one later:

"Throw down those weapons

And I ensure you'll be spared"

"After seeing what the king will do to us

We wouldn't dare"

Because Odysseus doesn't show mercy to Eurymachus, Melanthius doesn't want to take the risk when Telemachus extends mercy to them, which then leads to the starting interaction.

When extending mercy and creating a kinder world is discussed again, it's by Athena. She is the original god, who pushed him towards a lack of mercy, who found that a warrior of the mind is one that showed not mercy and Odysseus believed her during the war, even threw a baby of a roof about it, and it wasn't until after that he rebelled her teachings only to be forced into it by other gods (Poseidon and Zeus most specifically). To which this is said:

"If that world exists, it's far away from here

It's one I'll have to miss, for it's far beyond my years

You might live forever, so you can make it be

But I've got one endeavor, there's a girl I have to see"

"Very well"

"Father, she's waiting for you"

I especially want to highlight that Odysseus says it is beyond his years. He has become that monster and he can't undo that in the years he still has. If this is to happen, then it must be the future generations that Athena has to influence to make that world. Having her reply to that getting interrupted by Telemachus is very purposeful to me. Because he does still extend mercy, he is the new warrior she trained and she trained him differently because her belief changed.

But I also think having her show Odysseus her face with the lightning scar as she agrees is very telling. When she pushed Odysseus to be ruthless she had not been on the other end of no mercy, which is what makes Odysseus turn against her ("Unlikе you, every time someone dies I'm left to deal with the strain"). She now has been on the other side of it by the hands of someone Odysseus also faced and they were both shown the same lack of mercy. For Odysseus that was his final turning point where he chose no mercy, while Athena did chose mercy.

And in the end, she did get some mercy from Zeus in response from it. Zeus also learned from her, from the lesson Odysseus taught her, which was taught to him by Polites. And that mercy gets paid forward allowing Odysseus to get home (yes, I'm emotional about Polites helping Odysseus get home in the end). Almost every time mercy is shown, his journey progresses (Lotus eaters, Aeolous, Circe, Zeus).

Athena has been through not receiving mercy, but she still believes, is still working towards that future. And while she accepts Odysseus words about him being beyond such a world, she doesn't agree with him. Her reply feels more like accepting a dismissal rather than an agreement. And Telemachus shows up as a reminder that she is more correct than Odysseus in this, and he leads them into Penelope.

God, I love Penelope. With her, Odysseus tells someone yet again that he has changed ("I am not your kind and gentle husband") and that he would understand if she did not love him anymore. And then we get this banger:

"Only my husband knew that

So I guess that makes him you"

Penelope shows him mercy in this. She has asked him what he has done and she is given the option to not want him anymore after hearing about the monster he's turned into, but she doesn't. She forgives him. He asks for forgiveness and she grants it. That is mercy.

Not only that, but she also affirms that he is still him. The usage of husband here is important to me, because he says he's not her husband, who was gentle and kind, and she tells him that he is. He believes him beyond that world where people are empathetic and kind, but the roots of that world he created in Ithaca and with Athena allow him to come home. He isn't a monster beyond redemption, he is also a part of that kinder world, regardless of what he has done.

And then you have the music echo the Just a Man melody when Odysseus sings:

"I'm just a man who's trying to go home

Even after all the years away from what I’ve known

I'm just a man who's fighting for his life

Deep down I would trade the world to see my son and wife

I'm just a man"

He is brought back to who he was when he was still just a man, before he became a monster. He did trade the world to see his son and wife and that makes him just a man.

The whole musical asks the question when a man becomes a monster and I think while it is never explicitly answered, that the answer is: when he isn't shown mercy. And that by showing someone mercy, you can reverse that. That it isn't permanent. I really love the moral question of mercy vs. ruthlessness in that Epic has, so it was really interesting to see how it came back in the end :D

[sarafangirlart]

I’m fine with taking creative liberties in adaptions but shifting the blame for Astyanax’s murder to Zeus instead of Odysseus (or at least Neoptolemus) has been disastrous to Trojan war discussions, bc now dumb ppl who have never read the Iliad or Odyssey or watched any adaptations of the Trojan women will think that big mean Zeus pressured poor boy dad Odysseus into killing Astyanax. As if Zeus didn’t favour Hector and was hesitant to destroy Troy.

[g3msk1]

Wait a sec I think I cooked with a headcanon/ theory.

Ok so this kind of relates to the "Troy is a clockwork soldier" theory, but could also be seen as seperate. What if his obsession with people chanting his name is his way of further distancing himself from Tramilton, or who he used to be. Like what if in the past he was seen as such a disappointment to his father to the point of him maybe or maybe not being made into a literal robot by him, and getting people to chant his name and see him as Troy is how he proves to himself and others that he's not the disappointment he used to be. This can also relate to his obsession with winning and being seen as only the best, even when he's not. He's trying to prove that he's someone worth celebrating, but can only recognize his value through his tangible achievements, like winning races. It's gotten to the point where it's his whole identity, and without winning and people chanting his name, he's Tramilton, who is nothing. He hopes that if he lies and tells everyone that he's good enough, mabye he finally can see himself as good enough. And in his mind, one step towards that is getting rid of Tramilton (his past) and replacing it with Troy.

[ch3rrybite]

i would have loved you like they did in the myths—recklessly, desperately, with the kind of devotion that makes gods jealous. i’d have turned rivers to wine just to hear you laugh, stolen fire to keep you warm. you’d have been my sanctuary, my ruin, my reason to defy the heavens.

they would have written songs about us. called us tragic, called us fools, called us immortal. and they’d be right. because even when the world crumbled around us, i’d have clung to you, begged the fates to weave us back together, again and again.

you could have been my helen, my eurydice, my psyche. my everything.

but here i am, mortal and alone, clutching the echoes of a love that never came to be.

[televisionlassie]

I’m so tired of the “batfamily can defeat all their friends” trope like bffr.

Batman? Sure he can cheat and bring out some kryptonite but you really think he’s gonna defeat WONDER WOMAN?

Nightwing: maybe Roy, but Donna Troy literal Amazonian trained by Wonder Woman? He’s done for. And Garth the magic user. What’s he gonna do throw his escrisma stick at him? Wally West former temporal being? He’s dead before he can comprehend what is happening.

Jason Todd: I actually fully believe and stand by the idea that Roy Harper would defeat Jason in a fight, no I will not be accepting criticism. Don’t even try to tell me he stands a chance against my girl starfire. (I know he’s also friends with Artemis and bizarro but I try to avoid reading anything that involves Jason Todd)

Tim drake: bro’s got a kryptonian, Amazonian, and a speedster as friends. I don’t care if he’s a good detective, he’s getting the brakes beaten off him.

Damian Wayne: only one of his friends I know enough about is currently THE Superman. I know he can use kryptonite but that’s like tying a dude to a chair then beating them up and saying you won a fight against them.

I will not be including Stephanie brown, Cassandra Cain, or Duke Thomas because I actually like them and because I haven’t seen them interact with other DC characters enough to actually speak on this.

But guys I know they’re like “geniuses” or whatever, but they’re not the only ones…

As someone said on another post “who wins: Batman with prep time or Wonder Woman with her fist”

[eden-paradox]

I am SICK and TIRED of unjustified eurylochus slander. No, he was not the reason Odysseus wasn't able to make it home, his crews growing fear and discontent was. Eurylochus is such an interesting character because he represents the crew as a whole. Not only is his designated instrument the crew itself, but everything he does is for the benefit of the crew. From wanting to raid the lotus eaters island to get as much food as quickly as possible for the crew, opening the wind bag to satiate the crew's curiosity, wanting to protect those who were left and leave Circe's Island, and killing the cattle not just for himself but for everyone else who was starving. Eurylochus was justified in declaring mutiny against Odysseus, because the whole crew agreed. He speaks for them, so nothing Eurylochus did would have gone directly against their wishes. I sincerely believe if Eurylochus hadn't declared mutiny, someone else would have. Odysseus was not a great captain to begin with, and Eurylochus' constant questioning of his decisions proves this. The crew was always discontent with his leadership especially after the cyclops!!!

[boofindoopin]

ugh everything is ow

BREIF MENTIONS OF SA

Fun fact about me! I adore Epic the musical! I, uh, definitely do not adore PJO. I obviously don’t care if someone likes PJO, like, I had my phase too. But, I do need people to know WHY I dislike one Greek mythology retelling and dislike the other.

____________________________________________

I, personally, don’t even consider PJO/HOO, TOA Greek mythology retellings that they market themselves as. I consider them stories loosely based of Greek mythology. When I say LOOSELY I mean it. Many, many, many creative liberties were taken with that series.

I would consider Epic: The Musical a greek myth retelling. Yes, it takes creative liberties, but, not to the extent PJO does. You can tell Epic is telling the story of the Odyssey and Odysseus throughout the whole soundtrack, a stark contrast to PJO where you have to sit there and say to yourself “was this part of the myth, or something Rick Riordan made up?”

Neither are accurate sources of Greek mythology, obviously. Retellings shouldn’t me where you get your info from, kids. I’ve read the Odyssey and can personally tell you that Epic isn’t always accurate to the source material, and it cuts out a lot of things, (Ex. You know, the SA….)

Even though Epic cuts out some things, it is still a lovely retelling, even though the things they cut do bother me sometimes, I can get over it. Also, the fandom is mostly amazing. All of them are so so talented. The songs are banger too, No Longer You and Hold Them Down are actually so amazing.

____________________________________________

I don’t enjoy PJO for two big reasons: The fandom, and the actual books

“But Marcella!” You cry, clutching your pearls. “The PJO fandom is comprised mainly of children!”

Yes, I was one of those children many years ago. Now that we are all grown up, there are also adults in the fandom. I honestly think sometimes they are almost as bad as Disney adults. Sometimes I question if they even know what the Iliad is. I can’t be in a fandom where no one knows their Greek mythology. There are few things that bring me joy in this life. Those things are: Thanatos, Greek myths, carbs, coffee, Ares, Aphrodite, books, and on the rare occasion my friends and family. Let me have my myths please.

The books, along with butchering Greek mythology to the point I don’t even think it can be called a retelling, it also has some questionable shit. The whole thing about the fucking NAZIS, ARE WE FORGETTING ABOUT THAT? WTF WAS THAT? Also y’know, giving poor Nico every possible controversial character trait and aspect, so you could kill him off of it got too much hate. (I know your tricks, Rick, I’m a writer too)

Also, in a book where children have goodly parents and worship the Greek gods, you could have researched Hellenic polytheism just a little bit. Like, it isn’t that hard. Please bro.

————————————————————————

Anyways, point is, I’m not saying you can’t like PJO, and you can’t dislike Epic. Like whatever the frackadoodle you want. I just wanted you guys to know I have my reasons for being a hater.

[wingamy24]

I’m glad to see someone else who doesn’t like the Troy and abed ship I think it’s stupid and I don’t get why people insist on trying to make everything gay when it’s clearly not the creators intention, Troy/Britta and Abed/Annie just makes more sense

Okay, so, first of all... thanks...?

Second of all, I'm sorry, but we're not in the same team. Even though I don't ship Trobed, I respect the ship and understand why people ship them. Also, the "it's clearly not the creators intention" thing... they might have not tried to make Trobed canon, but trust me, they were aware of it and made jokes about it. Ask Megan Ganz! The show clearly jokes about Troy/Abed being really gay with each other. It's a thing of prespective. I personally don't see them as a romantic couple, but a lot of other people do, and that's great.

Third of all, Troy/Britta do not make sense. Don't get me wrong, it's okay if you ship them, but if you're going to say Troy/Abed is stupid, Troy/Britta isn't a great comparison. I talked about this here. Abed/Annie is excellent, though!

Thanks for the ask! :)

Also, beware of the Trobed shippers. I'm mutuals with most of them: They are a STRONG army. I'm afraid they WILL destroy you if it's needed. /j

[teddypickerry]

CHARACTERS I THINK WOULD BE 100x BETTER WITH JESS THAN RORY EVER WAS.

before the literati army comes for me, i don’t dislike them with passion like those fuckass dean fans. when i watch the show i enjoy them the most by far. i enjoy any scene jess is in. however, when i step back, yeah there was no way in hell they were gonna work out in the long run. the writers wouldn’t let that happen, nor should it have. they’re cute; but i’d prefer better for both of them in their own ways.

aka team rory gets therapy, jess gets bitches.

oo. serena van der woodsen (i know, i know. just stick with me!!!)

just hear me out for two seconds. do i think they’d last a lifetime? no, no the fuck i don’t. would they be fun to watch? oh, hell yeah. jess thinks she’s what she is, an annoying girl raised by a billionaire. but she somehow woos him with her long legs and careless attitude. do they break up after she graduates and does nothing with her life while he’s busting his ass off to make a couple hundred a week? um, yeah. but that’s probably already their third breakup because lily hated him at first (hiiii lorelai), blair was a bitch to him, chuck set him up, and gossip girl made a blast about his past. side note: what would jess’s gossip girl name be? i’m leaning toward a catcher in the rye reference. and would he probably be better fit for blair? mmm, yeah. but would that happen, mmm no. but that’s for another time.

oo. spencer hastings (here’s where we’re getting into it)

spencer is one of the few characters that challenges jess’s family dynamic. yeah, he dated his now step-cousin but her sister made out with her half-sister’s half-brother who share a dad that she technically shares sooooo. not to mention her mom’s not even her mom and she has an evil twin sister. so crazy family dynamic no one else understands? yeah they got that covered. i like to call spencer the better rory on speed. because well… spencer was on speed. she definitely fits the academic type who can not only match but challenge his literary references. she just gets it without trying and she’d sure as hell hold a grudge against liz. they’re both strong as hell but they need someone to lean on, they are kids.

oo. marissa cooper (you knew it was coming)

i don’t need to remind you guys of my absolute devotion toward this crossover ship. but hey i’m doing it anyways. let’s make a list, shall we? psycho mom who never took accountability for her actions and *borderline* abused them? check. dad who left? check. running off ‘cause life sucks x2? checcckkkkk. i mean the list could go on and on. my punk loving babies who mentioned the same book and bands, awwwww. i think the great thing about them is they both need to be protected whether they realize it or not. i think they’d be one of those couples that can speak with one look - no words necessary. she glances at him once and he’s holding onto her for dear life. have i imagined their entire relationship in my head? yes, yes i have. is that fic coming? it was supposed to but i suck. anyways, these two were doomed from their start. they really weren’t given a fair chance. but they got past it (or at least they were both *going* to). le sigh.

oo. literally anyone.

<3

[kiyomarus]

Epic the Musical Phone wallpaper!!

requested by @acejaeger !!

One with and one without the EPIC symbol. The iPad wallpapers are below if anyone wants them too!!

[blackfox774]

Epic: The Vengeance Saga

Poseidon did not care enough about Polyphemus to be doing all of that.

[sarafangirlart]

Imagine if I made an au where Perseus adopts Medusa’s kids, ppl will rightfully call me deluded bc he literally killed their mom and Medusa’s sisters are right there and deserve to keep whatever they have left of their sister. This is how stupid y’all’s au where Odysseus adopts Astyanax.

[urlocalwormtoday]

with each passing wonderlust episode I become more convinced Troy met Aeon (or at least the vixens) before Blink

"I'm supposed to stick with you, so I guess, uh.. lead the way, birdo."

"-I'm not supposed to tell you, dude!"

[naarlar]

Okie so I actually want to hear everyone’s thoughts on the Vengeance Saga, cause I have some mixed thoughts.

On one hand, IT WAS SO GOOD FROM A VOCALS PERSPECTIVE AND THE SONGS BEING BOPS. I was impressed by everyone’s performances (seriously I know in every saga everyone sounds awesome but this saga is just so visceral and surreal?!) Odysseus (Jorge the king himself) especially was so good in this musical?! His desperation and anger?? THE SCENE WHERE HE NEARLY DROWNS??? AAAAAAAAAAA

On the OTHER hand, I can’t be the only one that found the saga a little… corny? Not even the saga honestly just 600 strike. Idk I just couldn’t take 600 Strike seriously and I don’t think a song with that kind of narrative weight should have that effect. I recognize the musical is inspired by video games and anime, and that’s fine. But I feel there is a difference between being inspired by different works of anime versus using overused cliches and stereotypes from anime as a genre. (and maybe I’m taking it a little too literally but how the hell did Ody actually manage to torture Poseidon, like did the souls of his crew give him the power to stand to a god?)

Idk these are just initial thoughts I’d love to hear everyone’s takes bc I honestly don’t have a concrete judgement on 600 strike.