#transmisogyny cw //

[big-gay-bird]

Also? I know our ~wonderful~ Matt and his admitted terf associates will probably not do much of anything but this is an absolute pattern for this user and he’s very much a ring leader in violent sentiment towards trans woman across the internet. So if you feel like you can stomach it, reporting these threats as threats might at least make it more annoying for him to post such vile shit constantly.

“I as a man fantasize about killing a group of women whose politics I don’t agree with, hey why are people calling me a transmisogynist???” Maybe it’s because you literally have a fucking femicide fantasy.

If you(openly, at that!) fantasize about killing trans women as a man with privilege and power over them, then you straight up hate trans women, there’s no way around it. Go fuck yourself. 🖕🏿

Oop is crimsonender for your blocking pleasure.

[mr-ribbit]

gonna rant again bc im seeing a lot of trans women on my dash having to carry the heavy lifting to argue for their basic respect and a lot of other queer people who want to ??? get mad about that apparently. for the record as usual: im tme, im not speaking for anyone besides myself and my perspectives, but I am trying to reach out to fellow tme people to level with y'all from inside the house.

i thought we all got past the 'calling people gendered terms when theyve asked you to stop' thing in like. 2012. i swear we were allllll on board with not calling women dude anymore, nerfing sir and ma'am, neutralizing collective terms for groups, and all of that was like, during the onceler era. that's how we got off-putting shit like folx into the mix - remember???? why are we here again.

to those who I've seen claiming that they REALLY genuinely don't want to offend anyone, and that theyre trying to understand the dude thing, and they don't want to be seen as transmisogynistic when they aren't: ok. let's talk about it. step one, stop sending that really loaded anon to a trans woman you don't know, and close that in-group hatepost with 100 replies from people name-dropping trans bloggers they don't like. try to open your mind and assume for the duration of this post that I am not cynically trying manipulate thousands of tumblr users into making Bro the next big swear word, but a fellow queer human being who thinks you're all being pretty intentionally obtuse about an upsetting trend in our community

to be clear: this post is about the issue of trans women being called bro, dude, man, etc., particularly in recent tumblr discourse about transmisogyny, and the backlash they face if they get upset about it. this is also maybe moreso about the shitty ass excuses I see tme people make for why they supposedly can't stop doing this.

so let's go through some of the things I've been seeing people say they don't understand, supposedly in earnest, about this issue

"I DIDNT USE DUDE AS A MASCULINE TERM. I CALL EVERYONE BRO. MAN IS A GENDER NEUTRAL TERM"

I'm not actually going to exhaust my list of reasons why dude/bro/man are not strictly neutral, but you should be pretty aware that all words have context. Dude might be seen as neutral in many contexts, sure, but 'woman who is frequently called a man by others' is a situation where the context adds extra meaning to your words, just like calling someone "sweetie" might be neutral in some cases, but if you've got the context of knowing that's your coworker who's half your age, it's a bit less neutral. If you're not capable of reading that context and being tasteful about when you say dude, then you need to at least be ready to respond gracefully when someone asks you to stop. This is the part I'd rather focus on.

"BUT I DIDNT MEAN IT THAT WAY. IM NOT TRANSPHOBIC"

I think you should consider broadening your perspective *beyond* your intention behind the word. people may already understand that you meant the word neutrally and therefore didn't have transmisogynistic intent, but that's not really the entire scope of what people are saying. if that's your only concern, you're just trying to clear your record, not actually listen to what they're saying.

there are lots of words people don't enjoy being called, and in most cases, when they say 'pls don't call me that', people respect that and move on. even if the word isn't a slur, if it hurts someone's feelings, we all as a society have agreed that it's pretty shitty to keep calling them that. if your friend asked you not to call them 'buddy' anymore because their dead grandparent called them that, or something equivalently personal, you'd probably respect that instead of telling them 'but I call everyone buddy!!' right? even if you didn't really understand why it bothered them so much?

there is a prominent tendency for trans women to be denied this privilege, and when they ask not to be called dude or bro, people don't seem to respect this request as much as they would in other situations. when I accidentally use a gendered word and someone tells me they don't like it, I try to respond with something like "my bad, I didn't mean it as misgendering but I can see you were still bothered by it, so I'll try not to keep saying it. sorry!" and most people are willing to accept that. when trans women ask people this favor, a lot of people get VERY defensive, and treat the request as inane or unfair, instead of just apologizing and moving on. this is why people are upset when this happens, and it's why people are calling your actions transmisogynistic

also like you might not be doing this, but a lot of people DO use dude and bro in an intentionally gendered way to make trans women uncomfortable. it's a power play bigots use to talk down to them or otherwise maliciously harass them. do you know what arguments they use to defend that behavior when called out on it? 'oh I call everyone that' 'dude is gender neutral calm down' 'dont overreact its just a word'. by acting like this, youre all just giving credence to those same arguments.

"WELL THEY SHOULDNT GET SO MAD AT ME WHEN I DIDNT MEAN ANY HARM"

they can get as mad as they want!! also, are you sure they're 'mad'? or are they just expressing their feelings about a negative topic to you, and it makes you feel bad, so you have to make them out to be unreasonably emotional? how do you think they should have phrased 'dont call me that' to better spare *your* feelings?

also like, in most cases, these women do not knowww you. if your main response to someone saying you disrespected them is to say "I didnt mean it that way, I meant it in a friendly neutral way", well that's NOT YOUR FRIEND! she has no idea what your opinions are or what you think of her!!! she has no reason to assume you only upset her in a friendly way and not a bad unfriendly way! but she did get upset, and she did the one thing she can do which is *tell you what upset her* and your response is to say "well actually you shouldn't be upset at all"??????

and another thing:

it's not just the issue of using the word 'dude', it's because you're coming off extremely dismissive of women who have asked you to stop doing something that harms them, and because your argument is basically that they just shouldn't be so bothered by it. or that they're stupid, irrational, or otherwise crazy for telling you that it bothered them at all, just because you Technically used a gender neutral word according to Your Rules. be honest, does that seem fair? If people were calling you something that bothered you enough to ask them to stop, and they responded like this, how would it make you feel?

focusing solely on your intent and what the words mean when you use them is the same thing as saying "just get over it". no woman should need to Prove to you that 'dude' is gendered for you to care about what she's saying. the fact that you're asking people to do that sucks and makes you look bad, which is why people are arguing with you and calling you a misogynist.

especially those of you who are only doing this with trans women who are actively arguing with. you're wielding misgendering as a cudgel and we can all see it, grow up please.

[catgirl-kaiju]

something worth pointing out in the case of Tumblr CEO @photomatt 's statement regarding predstrogen is the very clear side stepping of the conversation being had. the ask he chose to respond to as part of his statement was asking about tumblr's transmisogyny problem, and what he is commenting on is tumblr's transphobia problem.

transmisogyny is certainly related to transphobia, but the two are not the same. i've seen plenty of trans folks who are guilty of transmisogyny and have even been harassed by such individuals on this very website. he repeatedly refers to transphobia and accusations of tumblr staff being transphobes throughout the statement, but never once brings up transmisogyny. perhaps he is unfamiliar with the term, but he could look it up and read up on it before responding to a question directly asking about it. he is very clearly not doing his due diligence in addressing these concerns.

he mentions tumblr having "LGBT+ including trans people on staff," but this is not especially helpful in assessing tumblr's transmisogyny problem. based on this we don't know how many trans people, whether or not there any transfem or TMA folks (who might understand the nature of transmisogyny better than TME people) on staff, what positions these queer people hold in the company, or whether or not any of tumblr's queer employees are on the moderation team. and it's understandable why some of these specifics are left out; you don't want to put any staff members in danger of being doxxed or harassed, especially if they're vulnerable marginalized people. however, it seems to me a gross oversight to not mention if there are any trans folks working on the moderation team.

i think it's also a huge misstep to focus on predstrogen so singularly when the conversation about her account being nuked is part of a larger conversation about transmisogyny. what this reveals, too, is transmisogyny playing an active role in the decision to ban her for life. one of the aspects of transmisogyny is viewing transfem folks as especially and uniquely dangerous. i'd like @photomatt to ask himself if he would have taken "threats" like the one cited as seriously if they came from a cis person or a TME trans person. really reflect on that, Matt. i also put "threat" in scare quotes here because, frankly, it's pretty clear that said comment is a cartoonish and outlandish example of violence used to demonstrate that the intent to harm is not literal. i do this all the time both on here and in real life. telling a friend i'm going to "maul them to death" over a minor annoyance is a comedic way of expressing frustration in a way that communicates it's not actually a big deal. saying something like "i want them to explode after falling down the stairs when trying to evade a falling piano full of knives" about a public figure or someone who is negatively affecting your life works as a way of demonstrating the intensity of your feelings while not veering into territory where it sounds like you're literally planning an assassination attempt. if you're reading this, Matt, i hope you can begin to understand the difference between something like:

and a real actual harassment, like:

y'know, all actual comments and posts i've received on this website, and reported with detailed explanations for why i'm reporting them but never heard back from the moderation team about the situation. i have no idea if anything was ever done about any of these people sending me bigoted violent messages because no one ever does follow-up. the only time i've ever received follow-up on a report was when i reported an account for promoting self-harm in the form of anorexia. that's it. one time in the over a decade i've been on this website.

how does all of this sit with you, Matt?

[biracy]

I think it's like. pretty important discursively to realize that "transandrophobia truther" does not describe any coherent sociopolitical framework and you can't write off anyone and everyone as "just radfems, not MRAs" OR "just MRAs, not radfems" because depending on the guy you'll really see examples of both. "I am ontologically incapable of harm due to being a female socialized female afab + trans men will never be seen as men ever by anyone so if you think about it I'm actually the real transmisogyny-affected" is obviously Terf Shit, as scholars say, but you really can't apply that to "everyone hates me for being on T and passing way better than you fags because the woke left hates masculinity too much." It depends the most on whether the guy in question is trying to suck up more to cis women ("butches and transmascs are sisters <3" type shit) or cis men (this like, "dudes rock stop being so mean to our boys let men be masculine I'm just a dude that heckin loves duderinos" type shit). While both types of people will unite under the increasingly vague terminology of "transandrophobia," you really can't conflate the beliefs of "guy who believes in 'sex-based oppression' and is constantly one bad day away from calling trans women Male Predators Who Wield The Oppressive Penis" and "guy who actually just believes misandry is real and that it affects cis men too like Actually."

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

Ok I'll try to keep this brief. Tl;dr, my partner and I want to kick our roommate out but she has nowhere to go and I feel bad.

To add on to that, this person, who I'll call Rescue, came to us when we moved after being kicked out of her old place. She's a friend of a friend. Unfortunately she is also extremely annoying and creepy. Annoying I can *kind of* live with but it's the creepy. Our walls are very thin and she WILL comment on conversations held behind closed doors if she can hear them. Sure she cooks and cleans sometimes, but she'll do it in weird outfits. She's asked to join our polycule out of nowhere when literally nothing has been done to imply our interest in her. But the worst part is, she wants to put up a pool and invite the neighborhood children. We're all queer in a red village (there's literally rebel flags in some places) so add that on top of the supreme liability that would be... My partner got super creeped out by that since he feels something cheese pizza-y might happen if you get me. So we want to kick her out.

Rescue's not on the lease and she barely pays bills. She doesn't have anywhere to go except *maybe* the mutual friend's place and, having been at risk of living on the streets myself, I'm worried. She *does* have a job but she only works maybe once a month. But partner and I have talked all this over and came to the conclusion that she needs to go for the above reasons.

WIBTA?

[agenderakali]

Some mfers on this site: "TERFs DNI stop drinking the TERF kool aid!!" The same mfers: "Of course trans men date/identify as lesbians isn't that kind of a no-brainer?? As AFABs they understand misogyny/womanhood/the lesbian experience so SO intimately. I mean, they were raised as women and socialized as women and dealt with misogynistic oppression in a way that no male-I mean amab-I mean CIS MAN ever could! Like- lesbians dont want to date cis men but... obviously it's different when it comes to trans men. Like... obviously? Do I need to spell it out lol?"

[gremlingirlsmell]

the egg prime directive is transmisogynistic, joking about a cis person you know might be an egg is pretty harmless, and saying otherwise is transmisogynistic. hope this helps

[estrogenism]

[Photo ID: A Tweet from user wanderingdah that says "fun fact: a trans woman’s pronouns don’t suddenly become they/them when you’re mad at her." End ID.]

[viciouslyrobotic]

Link to article; https://www.them.us/story/roxanne-tickle-sall-grover-giggle-for-girls-discrimination

I WAS SCROLLING MY INSTA AND AHHHHHH!! WAY TO GO ROXANNE! ALSO AMAZING FOR AUSTRALIAN TRANS FEMS SHE WON THE CASE AGAINST THE DEFUNCT APP "GIGGLE FOR GIRLS"!!!

[olivia-is-not-a-slut]

you can absolutely be mistaken for a trans women and tme. tma does not mean "percieved as a trans woman" it means subject to structural transmisogyny. closeted trans women are more subject to transmisogyny as a structure than any non transfem person who gets mistaken as a trans woman once

Sure! Transwomen absolutely suffer more from transmisogyny! Doesn't mean it can't impact some cis women! Intersectionalism! We're all in this together comrade 💕

[the-owl-tree]

i know it really isn't that shocking with how deeply ingrained transmisogyny is but i guess in a series like beastars which placed so much emphasis on being yourself and finding connections in others (with legoshi even imagining his jojo stand as a rabbit) it is still wild to me they did a man in a dress joke. it just feels so counter intuitive to what the series is about.

[kelvintimeline]

well i care what happens to crowley and aziraphale after the end of season 2 and i don't care about the feelings of those two little radfem bitches so that's a pretty easy choice lmfao

I know this is bait and/or trying to frame GO fans as especially bad (though I have seen this exact sentiment expresesd by GO fans so... idk)

but it should be said:

the victims are not TERFs. we do not know their politics, we do not know much of anything about them besides their age, that they were assaulted, and their general relationship with neil. that's it.

the podcast reached out to these women and they took advantage of the opportunity. scarlett reported her rape in october 2022 and no one listened. k had been living with it for 20 years. they aren't bad people for just wanting to be heard, not when there have been whisper networks about neil for decades. not when he's been glorified in spite of being a missing stair.

you can frame them of being taken advantage of the podcast or colluding with the podcast or whatever you want, that doesn't change what neil has done to them

even the podcast isn't a TERF podcast--it seems to be right wing, there are TERFs on staff, but that doesn't mean it's reporting objectively false information every time. it isn't primarily trans issues or feminism, either. so, you should be aware of framing, fact check when you can, and not use it as a primary source when you can. but bad actors break real news... all of the time. sometimes with an agenda, and sometimes even without one. we have real insight from the victims themselves, in their own voices, on this podcast that really can't be reframed as anything else unless they were literally hacking and cutting audio to form new sentences that the victims never stated.

none of that makes this podcast a good thing but it does mean that this particular series contains primary sources, including proof from gaiman himself, which exists outside of the politics of the people running it.

anyways--

even if the victims were TERFs, that wouldn't make neil less of a rapist

even if they were TERFs, that wouldn't mean they deserved to be raped

neil didn't rape them because they were TERFs (and if he did, that would still be wrong, rape is not a punishment, rape is not judgement, rape is not justice), he raped them because he could and because he wanted them to

so, to not care about these women is to not care that he is a rapist, to not care about other victims (of his but also just in general)

anyways--

TERFs are terrible people. Rapists are also terrible people.

As far as we know, his victims aren't TERFs, but even if they were, that wouldn't mean you should continue to support Neil. Or his art projects and adaptions.

Because... he's still a rapist.

This isn't some pokemon match where we figure out different power levels of "TERF" types and "Rapist" types and see which one is more powerful, where one defeats the other and somehow becomes morally okay.

This is where we think critically about the information we have on hand and then employ basic human empathy. If you are incapable of empathy, learn to fake it. Post haste.

Can't do that? Well, then shut the fuck up. Talk about something else. Be a better person by being less of yourself.

[trans-androgyne]

piggybacking off of the discussion around the fear of men, even if being afraid of every man ever and treating them like shit was useful and good (which to be completely clear i do Not i find that appalling), are closeted trans women acceptable fucking collateral to these people? Is it really a safe space for trans women if every closeted trans women is GUARANTEED and ENCOURAGED to be TREATED LIKE AN INHERENTLY EVIL PREDATOR unless she comes out in a space which, let's be completely fucking real here, IS CURRENTLY REALLY VITRIOLIC AND UNSAFE TOWARDS HER?

It's REALLY fucking clear that these people only claim to support trans women as long as they can pretend that they're just like cis women but More Oppressed. No consideration towards trying to mitigate and fight against the specifics of transmisogyny that cis women (I'm talking about cis women who are the most visible and kinda "lead" in feminist spaces, several intersections Can make cis women have more similar experiences to trans women like being intersex) generally don't have to even think about.

Absolutely, I have seen so many people deny that their fear and hatred towards men could never affect trans women because they aren’t men. As if you always know!! We will never be normal about trans people if we cannot be normal about men. I’m sincerely sorry you’re having to see people behave like this

[timeclipsed]

Anon be fr did you really think people wouldn't notice the blatant transmisogyny disguised as "helpful criticism". You're fucking rancid buddy. You better hope I don't ever hear wind of your actual identity

[biracy]

In general quite fascinating how "boys who liked bionicle are girls now" is called "gender essentialism" by like Radqueer Terfs DNI posters but "the thread of Girlhood Uterus Vulva Trauma connects all (cis) butches and trans men, so that's why I can reblog photos of trans men to my men dni blog in my #dyke tag" isn't. Lmao

[kornynao]

https://www.womenarehuman.com/feminist-org-reports-shinigami-eyes-made-by-violent-trans-accused-rapist-to-identify-terfs/ The creator of shinigami eyes is a rapist too, unsurprisingly. White trans women are a cancer

yeah this totally isnt biased at all