#touch aversion representation

[neptune-scythe]

The reason I take issue with people sexualizing Kanej or portraying them in a way of being physically intimate is because doing so takes away valuable representation that they provide

Representation for asexuals, for people who have touch related trauma, and people who simply don't like or want touch

There is so little representation for us, as is, and people are (unintentionally or not) taking away this too

Especially for Kaz

Yes I want him to heal, but giving him the desire for or action of physical touch, especially within the canon timeline where he still is unable to have that, is erasing representation for haphephobia and touch aversion

And if we're being honest (because I know the haters are gonna come after me and say the only way for Kaz to heal is to be super touchy), if it's between Kaz healing and losing that representation, or remaining crippled by his trauma but keeping the representation, i would take the representation any day

Of course I want Kaz to heal, and unlike the acephobic haters that keep coming after me, I am aware that Kaz can heal and still not want touch

But Kaz is a fictional character, his healing, while important and something we all want, is not in the greater scheme of things more important than the representation his trauma provides in the real world

Especially for me, I had no idea haphephobia was a thing until I read six of crows. I thought I was just making up my dislike of skin to skin contact based off my parents focus on modesty growing up, and my not wanting to violate or intrude but touching People's skin ... not realizing it was my own dislike until I read six of crows.

That's why I fight so hard about this

Because it's not just about the character, it's about what they're providing in the real world. It's important, and needs to be talked about.

And I'm sure someone will come on here and say I'm making a huge deal out of nothing and that they're just fictional characters, but some things are a huge deal, and representation is.

And if you're having a hard time understanding, let me use this example

It would be as if Wylan suddenly could read, yes he is technically "healed" but the representation has been erased

Or if a healer fixed Kaz's limp, yes hes technically healed but the representation is gone

Those two examples would be weird right? You would have a problem with it, with erasing a big part of who these characters are and what they mean to people, even if it does give the characters an easier or better life

That's the same for Kaz and Inej's touch aversions. It is representation, it's part of why they mean so much to me ... and why this topic is bigger than just book characters

Touch aversion and haphephobia deserve to be acknowledged and treated as valuable representation that needs to be preserved and handled with care

It's not just a casual thing that is light and no biggie

It is a big deal to me and likely a lot of other people

And I will never stop talking about it and fighting for it

[purplespacekitty]

just wanna formally apologize to anyone i've been INTENSE about Riverdale to. not because i love Riverdale. because Jughead Jones is canonically touch-averse and aroace and i will never, EVER, evereverevereverever forgive Riverdale for willfully ignoring that.

also, they barely showed our boy with any burgers or fries or milkshakes or gummy worms or any kind of food throughout the whole show. a travesty. dude held a PC controller maybe once. and uh, i don't think they ever had him playing his drum set. ...they tried to do the whole music thing, but The Archies never happened on Riverdale. could have been a great way to keep Josie and the Pussycats in the picture as crossovers between the two comic lines (and additionally, with Sabrina The Teenage Witch) have commonly been used to keep stories going, but it just dissolved before it could even start. anyway, Jughead Jones was born to eat burgers, dispense witty remarks on his friends’ social drama, wage prank wars and play drums, it's literally his destiny (and so is being Archie's best bud).

and like.

here's the thing.

i know, i know, i know that Riverdale isn't the Archie Comics. it's "edgy" or whatever. but like, have you ever read the Archie Comics?????? there are hundreds of storylines more edgy than Riverdale's and in (probably) every single one of them, Jughead eats more net burgers than he eats in all 7 seasons of Riverdale. he has his little angsty plots and crazy nonsensical adventures and is never as deprived of food and games as he is in Riverdale.

he's been this way since 1939, when the Archie Comics first came about. granted, video games didn't exist then, but his whole deal has always been eating burgers and being Archie's best pal. he's a breath of fresh air, a glass of cold water to the face for Archie and the gang to snap them out of their various problems (mostly love- and dating-related, but sometimes friendship- or science or general-good-time-adventure-related). he is often the voice of reason, which is why Riverdale!Jughead doesn't really work. original Jughead has a unique perspective, being primarily preoccupied with food and video games and avoiding all potentially romantic/sexual situations that might involve him: he can observe everything without getting (too) mixed up in all of it. and the more wisdom he imparts to his friends; the more jokes and witty comments he concocts during a given meet-up at Pop's; the more he goofs off and plays pranks on his friends and enemies, the more secure their collective friendship is. and he's perfectly happy with the state of things. he doesn't yearn for romance or sex, all he truly yearns for is a day spent eating burgers with his friends. as long as he has a snack readily available, he's happy to be alone or on an adventure. his natural state is in solitude, which is a state he sometimes has to seek out, but he never has to go far in any quest for company. it's exactly where he wants to be. he would rather eat his cake and eat it, too. Riverdale!Jughead inserts himself into the chaos, which original Jughead would rather play a game of football against Reggie than willfully do.

i think Riverdale tried to play into Jughead's comfortability with and preference for his general nonconformism with that whole "i’m a weirdo" speech, but ultimately failed because in the end, they still had him conforming to norms the original Jughead scoffs at. and Bughead, as the literal 85 years of Archie Comics and 7 seasons of Riverdale (in which Bughead basically become kinda-sorta-maybe-almost-pseudo step-siblings??? idk the whole thing between FP and Alice just makes it too weird for me) clearly demonstrate, added nothing to either Jughead’s or Betty’s characters and only contributed to the erasure of one of the longest running aroace characters there is. when the comics did try to give Jughead love interests, it was either extremely out of character, played for laughs as a way to shame him for not being interested in romance or just simply…didn’t work. usually some combination of all of the above. because Jughead is fundamentally aroace and has no desire to be with anyone in a romantic or sexual way. plus it kinda messes up the whole premise of the Archie Comics? teenage boy can’t choose between best friends Girl Next Door and Uptown Girl, who both care for him and each other equally, so he dates them both? it would have been way more refreshing to see them explore the complex open/polyamorous relationship that Archie, Betty and Veronica have been negotiating for 85 years through a more queer and empathetic lens than what Riverdale actually turned out to be. maybe they wouldn’t have erased Jughead’s queerness or sidelined other canonically queer characters (i.e. Kevin, Toni, Fangs, etc.) if they’d taken that route. it would be cool to see a plot within the Archie universe constructively centering queerness as a main element of its characters as storyline.

Riverdale refused to keep the most essential parts of the original Jughead's character: aversion to physical touch, romance and sex, an aggressive adoration for burgers, rhythm and musicality and his ability to separate himself from tense situations in order to problem-solve. what the other characters often sneer at or find frustrating about him are actually the things that solidify his importance in their lives. he balances them out. and there are moments when his friends recognize and celebrate that. and him being this essential, inextricable part of an iconic friend group in the comics is an extremely heartwarming thing to see as an arospec/acespec person, myself.

this was supposed to be an apology, wasn't it...oops? sorry?

Riverdale just kinda missed the whole point of Jughead Jones. and i WILL be salty about it forever.

[tuhkasirius]

I have beef with the fact that all good autism rep seems to come with an aversion to touch. If I like you, I WILL be touching you in any and every way possible, thank you very much. I will be leaning on you or sitting on you or hugging you or running my hands through your hair. And I would very much like to be resiprocated. I’m not good at words, I’d much rather show and receive my affection with other sensory input. I would very much argue I am like this BECAUSE of my autism, not despite it.

[aroaceconfessions]

I've finally found a romance story where the possibility of one of the partners never being comfortable with physical intimacy isn't answered with some form of I'll wait until you will accept it. But has the other person being comfortable with the possibility that that form of intimacy will never happen.

After FL asks her boyfriend what he would do if she'll never be comfortable with kissing he tells her that he accepts that about her because "there's nothing more important than having you by my side."

In this story FL wasn't romantically attracted to anyone and is uncomfortable with physical touch from anyone except long term friends and family. She develops romantic feelings for her childhood friend at 17 and eventually feels she wants to kiss him at his 18th birthday after they've been dating for some months, and later asks him if he didn't want to kiss her before earlier in their relationship. It's cute when we learn he just wants to live happily with her by his side and he didn't bring up kissing because he remembered the romance movie she picked randomly last time and her repulsed reaction at seeing people kiss, so he didn't want to make her feel like she had to do that for him and make her feel pressured.

The story wasn't perfect or anything but it ending on this note with him telling her he loves her for who she is and accepting her and her feeling secure and loved with them mainly showing their love in thoughtful gestures towards each other is nice.

Submitted June 7, 2023

[theaceoftales]

Ace of the Week #3: Jughead Jones

First and foremost, asexuality is about attraction not action. As such, asexuals cover a wide range of perspectives and opinions about sexual intimacy. Furthermore, you don't have to be asexual to be sex/touch-averse or repulsed. There is ✨nuance✨. And we'll be seeing several examples over the course of this blog (y'all, I've got characters lined up for at least a year already).

And Jughead is definitely averse/repulsed. And hasn't swayed from that (at least in the comics... the show is a whole other matter).

Jughead has made it abundantly clear from the very beginning that he is against physical touch - especially from women, and even more so from women who show interest in him that goes beyond platonic.

Sometimes, especially in more recent comics, he just seems to be averse to touch. But in some issues, he has been undeniably and vocally repulsed by touch.

Perhaps he's mellowed out with age and experience? Realized that his reactions needed to be toned down in order to not cause problems (he's still not apologetic or kind about it, but he's not as insulting)? Or, perhaps, his specific stance on it fluctuates?

Regardless, you don't need touch to live meaningfully and have solid relationships. Just keep enjoying your hamburgers Juggie.

All credit for my information and screenshots goes to @hotdogwithagun, this Tumblr post by @oneshortdamnfuse, this Comics Alliance article, and a few things I've picked up via osmosis prior to the Riverdale show airing that I wish I still had the links to.

[the-sea-anemone]

as someone who tends to be fairly touch averse (probably for autism reasons), one of my least favourite tropes is when a character doesn’t like/want someone to touch them and it’s treated as a sign that they’re a bad person or a character flaw they need to work on, or like they actually do like/want to be touched and are just pretending not to. sometimes people touching you Just Feels Bad and actually doesn’t say anything about your morality. 

[rjalker]

[ID: Three screenshots from the show The Good Place, showing Eleanor and Chidi talking, in the format of the "Okay, but that worse" meme, now edited so

Eleanor is saying cheerfully: "Actually, it's not a problem that people erase everything that makes Murderbot who it is, because it's just a fictional character. It doesn't hurt anyone to erase literally everything that makes Murderbot unique as a character."

Chidi responds, "Okay, but do you realize that Murderbot represents real oppressed people? And by erasing the parts of Murderbot that represent real people, you are literally contributing to the very real erasure and oppression of real people?

Please tell me you understand that erasing real oppressed people's only positive representation is literally further oppressing them.".

End ID.]

I think you all need to go back to How To Be An Ally 101. Because you sure love treating real bigotry like it's nothing more than silly internet discourse.

[rainswept]

alright FINE i guess i'll elaborate. (you better be asleep by the time i send this.)

dazai and kaz are so similar and yet so different in a fascinating way. aside from the obvious parallels—ambiguous morality, unsettling auras, and terrifying intelligence—there are a few notable differences. kaz is fuelled by a deep desire to avenge his brother and tear down his enemies 'brick by brick', while dazai strives to live a good life and fulfill oda's last wish. they both live for the memory of someone dear to them, but one memory pushes them to vengeance, while the other pushes them to solace.

this is only slightly related, but i said before that akutagawa is a person who inherently lacks purpose, and honestly i would argue dazai is the same. (i wonder if that is why dazai treats him the way he does... if he sees a kindred spirit in him... if he resents the way akutagawa clings to him so desperately, because he knows that will never achieve him true wholeness, so he refuses to give it to him.) before, he cared very little about whether he lived or died; he had no morality nor values of his own. he was just a blank slate, covered in shadows and bloodstains that did nothing to hide its barrenness.

HOWEVER prior to oda's death, before he became mafia traitor dazai osamu, he was the youngest mafia executive in history. that is the dazai that i associate that quote with. of course, his bloodied reputation isn't wiped clean so easily, and of course it lingers like a noose around his neck even when he is a part of the agency. but back then, it is so much more powerful when he is actively cultivating an image of a ruthless monster.

when everyone knows you’re a monster, you needn’t waste time doing every monstrous thing.

isn't that true? who knows if every atrocity tied to his name was even done by him, or some other creature that lurks in the dark. the only thing that truly matters is that people think of him as merciless, dangerous. his hands have brought so much destruction that he doesn't even have to kill someone to stop their heart, the suggestion is enough. for a creature that spills blood on a whim (he is very careful with who he kills; death is useful move, but he would be a fool to waste a pawn), whose empathy couldn't extend to another if he tried (his emotions are buried, but they are still there), what else would they expect?

what would a monster be, if not monstrous?

so. that's my elaboration. i feel like it is underwhelming, sorry. obligatory THIS IS ALL MY INTERPRETATION dazai is a very complex character but a lot of him is still a mystery in the story, and i am foaming at the mouth waiting for more of his past to be revealed.

ambiguous morality, unsettling auras, and terrifying intelligence

guys i think i have a type!!1111

this is only slightly related, but i said before that akutagawa is a person who inherently lacks purpose, and honestly i would argue dazai is the same.

aren’t we all? 🤨 what purpose does life have but what we give it? (and what purpose can be given by someone who has no desire to obtain one?)

if he resents the way akutagawa clings to him so desperately, because he knows that will never achieve him true wholeness, so he refuses to give it to him.)

GOD DAMN.

before, he cared very little about whether he lived or died; he had no morality nor values of his own. he was just a blank slate, covered in shadows and bloodstains that did nothing to hide its barrenness.

HELLO??/?/ poetr.y. killme neow

and of course it lingers like a noose around his neck even when he is a part of the agency.

noose. Dazai. oh my hod avery ur gonna be the dEATH OF MEEEEE

ok actually i need to stop quoting things because every single line in this was like a punch to the gut and i’d just end up screaming over every single one holy SHIT. pls tag me if u ever write a dazai fic (throws up)

(he is very careful with who he kills; death is useful move, but he would be a fool to waste a pawn), whose empathy couldn't extend to another if he tried (his emotions are buried, but they are still there)

ok i lied about stopping because GOOD GOD. AVERY??/?// IM GOIJGNTO DIE/ WHATTHHE HELL. THIS IS SOMGODO

UNDERWHELMING???? UNDERWHELMING????/?/ NUH UH. NUH UH. MASTERPIECE

[master-missysversion]

I love when the doctor is awkward and rude and bad with people and weird, and more than that i love that despite all this people love them anyway

[penguinsfly]

I unfortunately saw something I didn't want to see and that was my last straw. I'm fucking doing this.

Let's establish this first. Alastor is stated in the show to be asexual that is not up to discussion. He is also very heavily implied in the same conversation to be aromatic. 'An Ace in the hole' being used in context of him being with Charlie is also implying his aromanticism.

VIDEO

If that's not enough then here is Viv speaking about his romantic orientation. It's pretty clear despite the fact that afterwards she said it's okay to headcanon whatever (it's not but I will get o that later) that he is written purely as an aro ace character.

On top of that going by Alastor's interaction with Angel from the pilot and the first episode it is clear that he is sex repulsed. Not only that but on the fandom website he is stated to be touch averse with two sources which you can check out on the website.

Hazbin hotel wiki, Alastor page

Now we established that Alastor is canonically Asexual, Aromantic, Sex Repulsed and Touch Averse

As I also am all of the above I'll try to explain everything to the best of my ability as simply as I can.

Aromanticism and Asexuality.

I'm probably targeting the audience that knows those terms but regardless I will explain it anyway.

Aromantic - people that experience little to no romantic attraction towards any gender

Asexual - people that experience little to no sexual attraction towards any gender.

Little to no

Asexuality and aromanticism are spectrums in which people can feel certain attractions towards people but those attractions are less occurring or are defined by personal connection.

Diagram from AVEN website

However some people are at the end of the spectrum, they never felt attraction and that's valid. Alastor was stated to be aroace he wasn't written as demi or as gray he was written as aroace as in the end of the spectrum. His repulsion and not giving shit about romance or sex speaks for itself.

Representation

I do understand that everyone wants to be represented but it's so important to understand that aroace people are one of the most underrepresented queer groups in the media.

And I'm not here to scream about how I want my fav character to be just like me I don't care for it I'm way too confident in my orientation to rely on that however I'm tired of explaining to people what asexuality and aromanticism is just to receive 'are you sure' or 'you'll change your mind' or 'its not real' or the community favourite 'you'll find the right person' no I won't I'm not looking thank you very much (I just smile and nod to be polite and I'm sick of it).

'Harmless' buts like: 'He might be on the spectrum', 'AroAce people can still feel attraction' hurt the final outcome for all the people on the spectrum not only strictly aroaces because it allows people to write one shots with 'Demi Alastor' that falls in love in 2000 words because he is 'demi' (spoiler alert: they don't understand what that label means). It's just a cover, an opening, sneaky way to disregard his orientation, feel good about themselves and move on. Newsflash there is no moving on for aroace people it's our life.

Shipping

Shipping is just harmless fun right? Usually yes but not in this case. In the same way its not okay to ship gay characters with genders they are not attracted to.

It's erasure and since there is much less people identifying on aro/ace spectrums then there is gay or bi people our voices are being silenced. Not to mention that gay people received support from entire LGBTQIA+ community over the years in contrast to aro/ace specs who to this day are told that we are 'not queer enough' or 'not oppressed enough' often by other queer people.

And finally... FINALLY we get cannon Aro/Ace character that is clearly not interested in romance and sex. Character that beats stereotypes of boring and timid aro/ace people and what's the first people do? They ship him. Alastor's storyline provides so many points to be explored like 'what is his backstory', ' what's about his deal', ' how does he fit in in the found family trope' , 'does he care about hotel guests' yet people choose to write about the only thing that he is not interested in. As a heavily repulsed person that used to be horrified about the fact that I'll have to fall in love with somebody at some point before I found out what aro/ace is I find it repulsive and trust me he would too.

But Viv said it's okay!

Its the same point once again. What if Viv said that it's okay to ship gay Angel with woman. She doesn't have authority to say shit like that.

Queerplatonic relationships

I can't tell you not to do it I don't think he would be necessary interested in it but for fuck sake do your research and try to understand what queerplatonic means before you use it as a cover to shamelessly ship him. Respect the fact that he is sex repulsed and touch averse and you're fine.

Why can't you just avoid it?

First of all I shouldn't have to. Alastor's orientation should be respected in the fandom like any other orientation is. Second of all I've tried. I tried to only look up AroAce Alastor tag I've blocked over 80 people on tumblr alone (I just counted) to avoid to see anything that could trigger me and I'm not talking about slightly shippy posts or fanarts I'm talking about full blown disregard towards his orientation. Guess what it didn't work!

Archive of our own where do I start. I've used this website for over a decade and I could probably count days I didn't go there on my fingers. I'm fluent in AO3 I know which tags I should block. I know how to skim thorough the summary and tags to see if I'm interested. I've seen shit I'm a shipper I've been on ao3 for ten years but never had to mentally prepare myself to face queerphobia as I click on the tab.

Just use aro/ace Alastor tag.

I do and let me tell you people can't tag for shit or they just pretend to be clueless at this point. Besides see this?

there is more ff with Alastor/reader (disgusting) than there is Alastor with his canon orientation and to play the devils advocate for arophobic people there is more Angel/Alastor then his stated in the show sexuality. I understand that fandom goes back before the show was aired but Viv confirmed his orientation back then too.

Summary

I could go on and on bout different issues and maybe I will in the future but I'm not wasting anymore of this weekend on it. I'm ready to answer any questions as long as they are respectful.

I'm aware that he is a fictional character, it doesn't affect him in any way whatsoever but it does affect aromantic and asexual people keep it in mind.

If there are any mistakes grammar related I'm not sorry I'm fluent in English (not my first language) but I took 3h nap in between and I'm sleep deprived.

Have a nice day.

[neptune-scythe]

More thoughts on the usual subject of Kaz, Inej, and touch.

Yes their respective aversions to touch are due to trauma, and not something they had until they suffered from it. And thus something that can be healed from, and hopefully won't always hinder their lives so completely.

But touch aversion is not something that is wrong or needs to be fixed. There are many reasons one might not want or enjoy touch, and all of them are valid and deserve to be respected.

Kanej healing from their traumas doesn't mean they are going to want or enjoy touch all the time. They might, or they might only some days and not others, or none at all. Just because they can learn to touch without being triggered or having a panic response doesn't mean they have to enjoy it or want it, or that it won't still effect them in those ways sometimes.

More specifically, my point is yes I want them to heal from their traumas, but they don't need to be "healed" from touch aversion. They don't need touch to have full and happy lives or a healthy relationship.

Not wanting a sexual or physically intimate relationship does not make them broken or in need of fixing, or mean that they haven't healed from their traumas.

[the-maddened-hatter]

Honestly Monk was SUCH a good show for me to see as a young teen I'm ngl. Like yeah, it's not an overly accurate representation of OCD and I'm sure there's things that probably didn't age very well, but OH MY GOD can you even comprehend how amazing it was to get to see a canonically disabled, ND, and, more specifically, PROFOUNDLY ANXIOUS badass main character when you're a freshly diagnosed autistic & anxious young 12-13 year old with the only real advice from a crappy psychiatrist being to "learn to step out of your comfort zone or consider beginning prescription medications."

To get to see "do it scared" depicted in cinematic action in both heroic and relatively mundane contexts. A touch-averse, routine adhering, socially awkward, sensory issue having character as a SMART AND COURAGEOUS PROTAGONIST!

Hell, it was pretty amazing (for me at least) to see a character use those disinfectant handwipes every episode! I have severe food allergies and I have to carry a pack or canister with me for when I need to eat in town or when I've had to go into a grocery store and now that there's a pandemic and food allergies are rather more of an understood issue it's not all that weird a thing to have, but at the time it was definitely yet another step apart from peers and by god was it awesome to see a (again, smart and awesome) character use them too, even if it wasn't for quite the same reasons.

There's things that took longer to germinate too (and tbh still are).

That you don't owe people being "normal and easy". Yes, you have to be cognizant of their needs, boundaries, and how your behavior affects them, but it's still okay to need help and to do things in odd ways and have unusual needs.

That sometimes you're going to fail, do things badly, not be able to be as reasonable as you logically know you should. That logic can't always beat fear even when it should, and that it doesn't make YOU a failure, it means you have to try again another time or try differently.

And that sometimes people aren't as good for you as they seem, no matter how much history you have, and it hurts, it truly does, but sometimes it leads you to connect, by pure chance, with a compassionate stranger, and time will make the disparities between them clearer to the point that when you look back you don't know how you ever thought they were your ally just because they put up with your problems

[celestial-depths]

Poor Things and Born Sexy Yesterday

(spoilers for Poor Things)

I stumbled on a discussion on whether Bella Baxter from the movie Poor Things (2023) is a representation of the Born Sexy Yesterday trope coined by video essayist Pop Culture Detective, who defines it as a mostly fantasy and sci-fi adjacent trope of a regular human man falling in love with a beautiful, otherworldly woman who, through some plot quirk or another, has no knowledge of social norms and no sexual or romantic past. Even though he is brutally average, he is able to win her love simply because he is the first (human) man she connects with and thus everything that's basic about him is impressive to her. Some examples of the trope given by Pop Culture Detective in his video essay are Leeloo from Fifth Element (the physically grown yet mentally child-like alien creature who falls in love with a taxi driver in a wifebeater) and Madison from Splash (a clothes-aversive mermaid who thinks that Tom Hanks is the most enchanting man in the world). I love Pop Culture Detective's work, and the Born Sexy Yesterday video essay was a cultural reset in my personal history. I saw the video when it premiered six years ago, but it has never fully left my mind, so of course I immediately thought of it when I saw Poor Things a couple of weeks ago. The movie certainly touches on the same themes that the Born Sexy Yesterday is made of. However, I think that the movie is an intentional subversion and a satire of the trope rather than a sincere execution of it.

The main character of the movie Bella Baxter starts out as a grotesquely literal version of the trope, as she is literally a newborn in the shape of a conventionally attractive woman who is being actively shielded from the influence of the outside world. She has the brain of a baby salvaged from the fresh corpse of a deceased pregnant woman, planted inside the skull of the reanimated body of the aforementioned woman as an experiment done by the unorthodox doctor Godwin Baxter. He keeps her locked inside his house and controls every aspect of her life, so when he invites the young doctor Max McCandles to join his research, McCandles is served what is essentially the perfect Born Sexy Yesterday experience: an exclusive access to a beautiful and naive young woman who is in a prime position of being groomed into whatever her keepers wish her to become.

Or so they would think.

A sincere Born Sexy Yesterday would be fully fascinated by this power dynamic and probably leave her here to be romanced by McCandles for the rest of the film. The audience would be expected to assume McCandles's perspective and indulge in the fantasy of falling in love with the untainted woman who has neither the life experience nor the critical thinking skills needed to question him.

But, fortunately, the movie doesn't remain here. After the first act, the movie switches its point of view from McCandles to Bella and starts putting her experiences to the forefront. She starts developing interests that absolutely do not align with the wants and needs of the men around her, and she begins to learn things that clash with the essence of the Born Sexy Yesterday trope. Soon, she has grown into a headstrong, independent, sexually experienced, intellectually curious woman who had zero interest in entertaining the whims of men and who intends to live fully for herself and herself alone: an absolute antithesis of the clueless and subservient blank slate the trope would require her to be. My reading of the film is that it's an intentional satire and an autopsy of the BSY trope and the gender politics that gave birth to it. It criticizes the men who entertain fantasies like it by making them look like absolute losers, urging us to ponder on what the hell is wrong with these creeps who see nothing wrong with drooling over a woman who is mentally a toddler instead of their intellectual equal.

The movie also reads as a critique of how women are socialized into a patriarchy. Godwin treats Bella just like a possession of his. Her body and her life are completely under his control from the moment she is "born" (another act in which neither Bella nor the woman she was born from had any say in), which isn't dissimilar to how a lot of fathers view their daughters. He wishes to keep her under constant supervision until the end of her life, until she protests and gets him to change his mind. When he asks McCandles to marry her, the two men treat the proposed marriage as a contract between the two of them rather than as a contract between McCandles and Bella herself. Again, this isn't too different to what marriage between men and women has meant throughout history.

McCandles is romantically interested in Bella even though he is fully aware of the fact that she is mentally a child. He seems to be looking forward to starting a sexual relationship with her after they are wed, as if the seal of marriage would make the intellectual disparity between them any less iffy. This bears resemblance to the way men in the real world prey on young girls with little to no sexual experience and whose brains are not fully developed because they're easier to control than grown women. I don't think that McCandles's hypocrisy is lost on the film. He agrees to marry Bella almost in the same breath as expressing his desire to keep her safe from other men, as if his desire to bed a person who is intellectually at the level of a five-year-old was any better than theirs.

When Bella chooses to leave Godwin's house to explore the world, the two men immediately replace her with a new experiment, showing that they were never truly interested in her as a person. They wanted the eternal baby, the thing that they can cage and control, and not the person who can think and learn and disagree with them. This exemplifies how disposable women are when they no longer serve their limited purpose in a patriarchy, and how replaceable people are when they are primarily viewed as bodies to be used. (Sidenote: I do think that Godwin and McCandles eventually learn to appreciate Bella for the person she is and that they both grow to be better people by the end of the film, but I still attest that these two are total creeps at least by this point of the movie.)

And then there's the supreme loser of the movie: the sleazy lawyer Wedderburn, who slithers into Bella's life and convinces her to run away with him. He is the darkest example of the kind of person who is drawn to inexperienced women like the ones represented in BSY movies - a predator who finds pleasure in the prospect of getting to corrupt and consume an innocent. He intends to take advantage of Bella and abandon her once he's gotten his fill only to find himself choking on his prey, who turns out not to be the malleable, naive creature he thought her to be.

This is the point where I think the movie goes from simply critiquing the BSY trope and everything it represents to successfully subverting it. The characters who embody the BSY trope don't really evolve. The movies they appear in are not really interested in their inner worlds and individual experiences beyond whatever serves the interests of the male protagonists. These characters are projections of male fantasies, so there really isn't a way for them to exist without centering men. This is not the case with Bella, who quickly grows into her own woman who is only tangentially interested in the men around her.

The bright side of Bella's condition is that she isn't just unaware of the ways of the world, but that she's also unaffected by the years of patriarchal conditioning that most normal women are burdened with. She literally has no shame, no internalized misogyny, no history of crushing blows to her sense of self-worth, and no looming knowledge of societal norms society. She has skipped the part in life where she is constantly bombarded with demands to make herself smaller and more palatable, to hate herself, to think of her body and the way it finds pleasure as something disgusting and abnormal, to treat other women as competition, and to think of herself as so much less important than men that she must pursue their validation beyond all else. Because of this blessed defect, she is free in a very rare way.

Wedderburn absolutely cannot handle that. When Bella first gets to know him, he paints a flattering picture of himself as a proud social deviant who gleefully eschews the rules of polite society. However, when faced with the actually deviant Bella, who flatly refuses to obey and center him, Wedderburn is revealed to be a phony. He is not a genuine libertine. He does not want to live in a truly free world with a free spirit like Bella, because he is a pathetic, insecure little man who only likes women in scenarios where the power balance is stacked against them. In my opinion, this is a direct shot fired at the BSY trope and its average enjoyers: if your ideal woman is someone who is many steps behind you in terms of mental capacity and experience, you are quite pitiful and would not stand a chance in an equal playing field.

It's hilarious how Wedderburn loses his mind when Bella starts exhibiting the kind of behavior he himself has proudly displayed earlier in the film: having multiple sexual partners, keeping sex and feelings separate, not falling in love with him or treating him like he's special, dropping him once she's had enough of him, and generally living life in an unconventional way. Again, the movie is pointing out the hypocrisy in men who fetishize inexperienced women while bragging about their own sexual conquests.

The part in the movie where Bella becomes a sex worker delivers the final blow to whatever is left of the BSY trope in her story, because the trope relies on sexual exclusivity and the fetishization of virginity. By having many partners and gaining lots of sexual experience out of her own free will, Bella stops fitting the ideal of the untouched woman who can be deflowered and exclusively possessed by the male protagonist. Also, through the conversations between Bella and the other sex workers, the movie finds another way to address the politics behind certain men's sexual fantasies of women - such as pointing out that some men enjoy sex with women more the less the women themselves enjoy it. It's a stray observation that the movie doesn't get deep into, but it has its place in the tapestry of the general theme of what desire reveals about people.

Finally, there's Alfie, who gives Bella (and us) an idea of the kind of life Bella's "mother" lived - as well as the kind of life Bella herself might be living had she grown up the normal way. It seems hellish. She'd be living under the tyranny of her awful husband, under a constant threat of violence, under absolute bodily control. Alfie wants to impregnate her against her will and to mutilate her genitals to deprive her of pleasure, and there's nothing that she could do about it because he is her husband and thus legally allowed to lord over her. She sees a terrifying glimpse of the role even privileged women like her have in this world: objects who exist solely for the pleasure of the men who own them. I would venture to say that the same description lies in the underbelly of the BSY trope.

I am happy that the movie doesn't take its sweet time to revel in the horror of this part of the story like so many other movies that address the oppression of women do. Instead, Bella stays with Alfie just enough time to say a hard and a well-informed no to his bullshit before getting on her merry way.

I think Poor Things is such a great example of taking a trope and exploring its implications in a way that goes beyond just pointing it out or parodying it by simply repeating it.

[briefobservationdreamer]

Ace In The Hole: Discussing Asexual Representation In Hazbin Hotel And The Fandom

Alastor has become one of the most well-known asexual icons in modern media and has been the subject of quite a lot of discussion and discourse amongst fans, and I think there is a lot about this topic that really needs to be said. So, as an aroace, I would like to express some thoughts on how his asexuality is represented in Hazbin Hotel and considered throughout the fandom (with some mention of Helluva Boss briefly at the end).

To start with, scenes in the show that address the topic not only explicitly confirm that Alastor is cannonically asexual, but they also heavily imply that he is aromantic as well, and is more specifically on the averse side of those spectrums. To explain my reasoning, I will start with the pivotal scene, since this provides the most explicit information.

It is a very brief 10-second exchange, but there is actually a lot to unpack in just these two lines of dialogue.

Rosie teases him about being asexual by jokingly dismissing the idea of Alastor and Charlie being in a relationship because Charlie would be too young for him, and then giving a more serious reason in Alastor being an "ace in the hole". As Rosie is using this as a reason for why she knows Alastor wouldn't be in a relationship with Charlie, this is definitely a pun made in reference to his sexuality rather than the common use of the phrase, which wouldn't be a logical explanation. The pun, of course, goes right over his head as asexuality wasn't really known in the early 20th century when he was alive and Alastor doesn't tend to keep with the times as a rule. With context, though, Rosie's comment about Charlie being too young for him wasn't just a reference to sex. She was talking about dating. About sex and romance as a package the way most people do when we talk about "being in a relationship."

She has confidently deduced that Alastor is asexual, even without any explicit communication about it from Alastor. It would be extremely unlikely she could have come to that conclusion and ruled out all other possibilities (not having found the right person yet, currently being more invested in other aspects of his life, high relationship standards etc) if Alastor had confused the matter for them both in having much of an interest in finding a partner of any kind throughout their history, even if it was just a result of ingrained societal expectations. If Alastor had been on the favourable end of even one of those spectrums, it's extremely unlikely he would have been able to articulate and express his experiences clearly enough for it to be distinguishable from allosexuality and alloromanticism without being educated on the subject, which he isn’t. Rosie has also clearly known him for a very long time, almost certainly decades, which would be enough time to call other possibilities into question. And if Rosie - a proclaimed expert on the subject and a close personal associate of Alastor's - hasn't seen him express much of an interest in the decades she's known him, then it is extremely unlikely that he has an interest in it or ever will.

This is combined with the fact that, while Alastor seems to generally prefer the company of women to men, he has never shown attraction towards anyone and has only expressed at the very least disinterest on all three occasions the subject is directly brought up to him (though the tone-deaf commercial he made in episode 1 indicates he's willing to make an occasional joke about sex if he thinks the comedic payoff is worth it, which I think is a very nice touch). They don't mean much individually, but all together with the pivotal scene, they do create a bit of a consistent pattern.

There is meta evidence for this as well. Amir Talai and others have also stated he is aroace, and while that has since been retracted to say he has only canonically been confirmed asexual, Vivzie has also stated that she doesn't want to reveal Alastor's romantic orientation so everyone can have fun shipping whoever they want and that it ultimately isn't important in the show, which is telling in itself. Not only is Alastor's canon romantic orientation the only one not explicitly revealed, but what other romantic orientation could be considered problematic for shipping besides a complete lack of romantic attraction? If Alastor really was romantically inclined, there would be no issue with being open about it, and I am absolutely positive that Vivzie would have said so by now.

So no. Alastor is not attracted to anyone and is not going to get together with anyone in the show. The two main defences that I've seen - "aro/ace people can still date/have sex" and "it was never confirmed he was aromantic" - do not really hold water in this case.

Now as for the representation itself. He isn't defined by his asexuality, and the show never directly attributed his more unsavoury traits to it, though care does need to be taken about the "doesn't love anyone because he only loves himself" trope. I believe Vivzie has insinuated something like that at some point, which would certainly be questionable. I personally don't mind the show's one ace character being a villain in this case, given the setting though. Many characters in the show are portrayed negatively in Hell, regardless of their sexuality, and conversely it could even be considered infantilising to have the one asexual character also be one of the few good characters in the show. Again, the show hasn't really made that correlation.

He is too fully-developed and integral to the plot to be considered a token character. He defies being an emotionless robot/socially awkward nerd stereotype by instead being a passionate, flamboyant, charismatic man who, despite being a ruthless serial killer and a cannibal, still seems to be capable of feeling affection for others and forming close friendships. It is actually refreshing to see. Amir said it best when he said "you don't have to fuck to be fab", and I think Alastor could be good villainous ace representation if...

1. His asexuality and aromanticism is aknowledged just a little more in the show itself so there is no room for ambiguity. So far the only confirmation we've had is a quick and subtle joke which, while appreciated, could easily go over the heads of people who don't know what asexuality is, just as it did for Alastor. Vivzie might be fond of dropping lore on livestreams and social media, but not everyone is going to know what is said by creators outside of the show, nor should they be expected to in order to judge Hazbin Hotel as a show for its own merits.

2. He continues to have a capacity for affection and friendship, and more negative traits such as narcissism and a lack of empathy aren't attributed to him being aroace. I think this is both important for giving him depth as a character and essential for avoiding harmful stereotypes. The idea that relationship averse aroaces aren't as capable of having profoundly loving relationships and will end up alone, and that people are boring or incomplete without a sexual or romantic partner is already a tired and insulting cliché that reinforces allonormativity/amatonormativity and it really needs to go.

The subject of shipping, however, is a rather complicated one in this situation. Rather than just vent my own personal feelings on the matter, I would instead like to offer a more nuanced perspective.

On the one hand, as with any minority group, being a relationship averse aroace in a romance-focused and hypersexual society – to see the people around you get so invested in something elusive and unattainable for you and that you just can’t give to someone – can be a very isolating experience. Aphobia does exist, and even when others are being considerate, there will always be innocuous reminders that it is unusual. That is one of the reasons why representation of minority groups is important. In having fictional characters to relate to, it gives the healing and validating feeling of finally being acknowledged, seen and understood, as well as a chance to show the world who we really are. Aroace fans finally find that with Alastor, only for them to go online and find a vast portion of fanmade content consisting of rule 34, shipping and x reader fanfiction. That the one aroace character is the one who gets shipped the most, and gets shipped with half the cast. That there is a large portion of the fanbase who don’t seem to care about him being aroace and use excuses to ignore it in favour of their own desires, and that the creator has refused to fully commit to his identity so those fans can be appeased. To put it into another perspective, this is not so very different from shipping a homosexual character in a heterosexual pairing and using the excuse that the creator never confirmed they weren’t attracted to the opposite sex to make their homosexuality more palatable. To make things worse, unlike shippers who have all of media to find other pairings if they lose their Alastor ship, we find almost nothing else if we lose our representation because likable, well developed and officially confirmed aroace characters are so exceedingly rare. It might just seem like harmless shipping fun for some people but there are many aroace fans, including myself, who feel more than a little uncomfortable and hurt by how much he gets shipped and sexualised in a mischaracterising and disrespectful way because a rare opportunity to find recognition, acceptance and solidarity is instead being used as an opportunity to disregard our experiences and we are once again having to defend ourselves and fight to be heard and understood.

On the other hand, there are people who like Alastor and enjoy the idea of him being in a romantic relationship with another character, even cherish it as a comfort ship. They just want to have fun expressing their love for a character they like and a dynamic between fictional characters that they find cute or charming or sexy, like kids harmlessly playing with dolls, only to be told that it is potentially disrespectful to both the character himself and to real people, and that they would have to fight and change the character’s identity and bend canon over backwards, simply to justify something they want to have fun enjoying in peace without feeling or being made to feel guilty about it. It is understandable that someone in that situation would find it difficult to acknowledge and respect Alastor’s aroace identity. There are also relationship favourable aroaces in this situation who want to explore their own identity and want to rightfully remind people that some aroace people can still have relationships.

That is ultimately the source of the problem. In one way or another, all sides feel threatened that something they deeply cherish as a source of joy and comfort will be taken away, and unfortunately there is no easy solution that will completely satisfy everyone. The best thing we can do is listen to each other, to compromise, to not paint one group with the same brush because of a few spiteful, toxic or aphobic people, and to treat each other with respect and empathy for our different perspectives rather than hostility.

There is a lot to be said about managing expectations, of course, and I think that can also help to avoid and control problems like this. Fans can appropriately manage their own expectations and see the show’s content for what it is and not just what they want to see. To separate canon from fanon, in other words. It is also the responsibility of creators to properly communicate what should be expected from their content. While I can understand wanting to avoid the vitriol that comes from intense shipping wars, Vivzie’s refusal to officially confirm Alastor’s aromanticism and the mixed messaging in merch and marketing hasn’t helped the situation, and in fact has only made it worse by leaving room for all sides to argue their case, and it doesn’t make her decision less questionable for the aroace people wanting good representation who will be hurt the most.

The only way to end the debate is to officially reveal Alastor’s orientation. At the end of the day, having aroace people be represented by an icon who is being used as queerbait by the creators and erased to prioritise shipping is simply not a good look, however unintentional or well-intentioned. LGBTQ identities still have to be explicitly confirmed in the first place for no-one to consider them cis-allo-het by default. Yes, Alastor is a fictional character, but a person’s attitude towards him being aroace can still potentially reflect their attitude towards real aroace people. How can averse aroace people be expected to believe that society accepts and respects them when there is such little widescale recognition, and on the rare occasions we actually get representation, they are treated like this?

Does that mean it is wrong to ship him? Well, not necessarily, though just because Vivzie said we could ship anyone doesn't automatically make it right. Personally, I don't like shipping in general, and I dislike Alastor ships on the basis of him being aroace, the fact that I think pretty much all of his relationships as portrayed in the show would be problematic as a romance regardless of his orientation, and my general preference for canon compliance when it comes to fan content. However, I recognise that is my personal preference and can tolerate a certain amount of it in moderation. It isn't necessarily wrong to ship Alastor - and I am certainly never going to begrudge a fellow aro/ace exploring their identity on the spectrum using cartoons as an outlet with the rare piece of rep we have to share when reps currently have the whole spectrum on their shoulders - as long as distinctions are made between fanon and canon, and that what has been established in canon is given respect.

Remember, "aro/ace people can still date/have sex" is a reminder that asexuality and aromanticism are spectrums, not an excuse to justify erasure in disregarding a character's canon asexuality/aromanticism and projecting allosexuality/alloromanticism onto them. There is so little representation already. We don't need what little we have being taken away.

In that vain, I would appreciate it if Alastor's asexuality and aromanticism gets acknowledged a little more in the show. Use characters like Angel Dust and Rosie, who are more clued in to LGBTQ identities. Rosie could hint at her reasoning for suspecting Alastor is aroace or usher away some Cannibal Town admirers. We're probably not going to see Angel Dust hitting on Alastor again, but those are the only two scenes they've directly interacted with one another.

Perhaps the other two hellaverse aces from Helluva Boss could be somewhere else on the spectrum. Alastor is a sex repulsed aroace. Mammon could be sex favourable, considering he has no problem selling sex robots of his mascots. Octavia could be greysexual or demisexual, be more neutral about sex but could still want to find love at some point. Imagine the Goetia family trying to arrange a marriage for her. And what about more unusual dynamics, like one-sided ships or QPRs? Just some ideas, if only for fanfiction. They are both big spectrums. Let's have fun exploring them.

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

i think Helaena can be autistic but also a happy and joyful girl , autism ≠ depression. the way the portrayed the only neurodivergent character on screen as unstable, shunned depressed, and with no importance to the plot feel very ableist and weird , but then they're the ones who made the guy with a foot disability a feet fetishist 🫠

Hi OP, finally answering this because the trailer dropped and still the only Helaena shots we have are from her Jaehaerys' funeral. There is also one still photo of her. If you haven't seen it, here she is, apparently sewing the funeral shroud for her little boy:

So it seems like season 2 is going to continue on this trajectory for Helaena as a character who exists in order to suffer beautifully.

Don't get me wrong. I am glad that the show is going to wring the full emotional effect from Blood and Cheese, not just shock value. The audience will feel the real horror of a six year old child brutally murdered in his own home and the psychological torment of Helaena. It should be terrible, it should be devastating, and I hope they do not pull any punches.

What's disappointing about how the show has handled Helaena is that they didn't really put any effort into building up her character before her tragedy. It's all well and good that she likes bugs and she's touch averse, but what are her opinions? Who is she closest to? How did she react to becoming a mother so young? To what extent does she understand her visions? What does she value? She can be happy and cheerful, or she can be frustrated and angry, and hell, she can be depressed too, but I need to know why. It's telling that I can describe the basic internal motivations for each of the male children, including Luke who was a glorified plot device, but I cannot for Helaena. Aegon wants to feel loved, Jace wants to prove he's as worthy as any trueborn heir, Aemond wants what his brother has, Luke wants to be free from his family's expectations. Helaena? Fuck if I know. I guess she wants not to die horribly.

The ableism is an issue. F&B is full of women who were deemed "simple" -- Gael, Daella, Jaehaera-- without being given much else to define them, and HotD adds another (there's something, I think, to the way the "simple" Targaryens are always women and how disability kind of used as a way to remove them from the narrative and shunt them aside, often tragically). And while it's great to see an autistic person represented on screen, the show consistently has an issue with treating representation as characterization. "Autistic girl who likes bugs" is not a personality. Autistic people, (even those with horrifying prophesies I assume), do have hopes and dreams and feelings about things. The one peek we get into Helaena's life is at the in episode 8 when she roasts Aegon and even that scene is open to interpretation (and gets taken wildly out of context). Now, I can read a lot into the actor performances, but ultimately, lines that could have given a glimpse Helaena personality were cut. It's as if they're afraid that if they give her an opinion on anything she would lose that (frankly kind of infantilizing) "pure cinnamon roll too good for this world" "i would die for her" sympathy from people who are not inclined to be sympathetic for her family as a whole.

(And anon, you're right about Larys. And let me say, turning Larys' clubfoot into the punchline of an OnlyFeet joke also does not inspire confidence that they'll handle Aegon II's eventual disability with any sensitivity either, especially when Mushroom's accounts of his last few months are incredibly mean spirited. We need to start that discourse now so they get the memo).

Sadly, I don't think the show really has any intention of course correcting with Helaena in season 2. I imagine at most we'll have her try to warn Aegon and/or Aemond about Blood & Cheese but they won't understand her warning, and then this will be a vehicle to further their guilt and grief. And while we do need to see Aegon's guilt and his grief, I also want to know if Helaena blames herself, if she wishes they'd run away when they had the chance, if she thinks Aegon could have done something, if she is angry at Aemond for killing Luke, if she wants revenge. I do think, with the public funeral for Jaehaerys, they are going to show that the smallfolk are fond of Helaena, and hopefully that will be expanded upon this season and in season 3 because her death is the catalyst for the revolt that sees Rhaenyra driven from the city, and we should understand why her death has such an impact before she actually dies.

[godsandvillains-if]

Piggybacking off the selective mute question, I would love to see similar representation as well if you were able to implement it. Im headcannoning my mc as touch adverse and selectively mute regardless - im personally touch adverse, so a lot of my mcs are too. I just wanted to let you know that thered definitely be interest, but again, I also understand how much work thatd be. Writing a regular novel is stressful, I could not imagine writing a story with that many choices 😭

Thank you for sharing your story with us! Looking forward to adopting Ace and Zodiac as my parents 😊

I'll let you know that I already implemented a touch averse option!! It will be available in the next update 🤗🤗

Ace and Zodiac will be thrilled to co-parent the MC 🤣

Thank you for the question!! 🥰