#totk discussion

[navisakura]

People love to talk about the Frostbite armor and say it’s “Links sluttiest outfit” but like have y’all SEEN the Charged set?

The low rise pants? The top draping over his shoulders and barely covering his titties? The exposed midriff? The fact that he’s got his dogs out? The bracelets? THE ANKLET?!

And like yeah there’s the backless thing and the skirt is cute but like the Charged set is also backless?

Also when people draw him in this it’s usually only with the shirt and they choose to completely ignore the bell bottom ass pants and flats but with the charged set THE WHOLE OUTFIT IS SEXY

I will say that the blue nails stand out more and that’s pretty slay but like Charged set will always be superior in my eyes and I need more people to draw him in it please and thank you

[moonglide]

Identity of Ancient Hero and Princess

Theory/Headcannon:

Calamity 1: No Tech Vanilla Addition occurred a generation or two after demise was sealed under the isle of the goddess. The second one (with tech, all goes well) occurred a generation or two after the totk imprisoning war where ganondorf was sealed. Sonia and Rauru had to have kids running around in the background, or else the blood of the goddess wouldn’t have continued. I think that the link and Zelda that sealed Calamity 2: Hyrule Engineering are related, and descendants of Sonia and Rauru. It explains how the ancient hero looked like a zonai, but wasn’t one (zonai/hylian hybrid) and (while this could happen otherwise, but it’s still a point for the theory) how the Zelda of that time (according to the mural) had darker skin than most Zeldas throughout the games. Who was a hylian queen who also had darker skin? Sonia.

And we know the link/zelda wombo combo that sealed Calamity 3: Guys, I Think We Fucked Up

If anyone finds any major problems with this theory, please tell me

[nattousan]

@vampire-wizard-solidarity you have it exactly right, and i don't want to derail but I'd love to hear you comment on what I and many of my friends perceive as a conservative emphasis on het relationships in the game and the active narrative discouragement of anything that could even suggest the possibility of any gay shit going on in hyrule.

At least in my playthrough, I noticed a lot more npcs talking about their wife or their husband/kids which in itself wouldn't be enough to raise my dander but coupled with the whole Lady Yona disaster, it puts a bad taste in my mouth.

Its giving the same vibes as those "get a wife and procreate" propaganda animes that show how cool or nice it is to have children/be married. Even themes that were present in BOTW like the Gerudo town's "Voe and You" class assurance that absolutely NO lesbianism happening here seems weirdly prominent as well. Not to mention that for Gerudo town specifically, Bolson is just allowing his only daughter to be taken away and never to be seen again bc TRADITION. Like yea he's sad about it but he doesn't even try to fight it bc rules are rules!

Im rambling but I wonder if anyone else picked up on this.

a lot of people have already pointed out how totk has a lot of themes of imperialism and generally leans conservative ideologically, but what i think is interesting is how totk subtly redefines what a “researcher” is.

zelda wants to be a researcher in botw, and what this means in the context of botw is largely someone who works with sheikah technology. she wants to figure out ancient sheikah tech, she has an interest in botany and otherwise nature and biology (the whole silent princess and the frog thing), robbie and purah, the two characters who are the closest to us seeing what a researcher in the context of botw is are basically inventors. in totk, however, the main researchers who are presented to us are all historians.

this is an interesting pivot, because in botw zelda is not really interested in history. if anything, the one who’s deeply concerned with history is rhoam, wanting to preserve historical tradition and his uncritical reliance on said tradition and historical precedent is what leads them to their doom. in botw, zelda is narratively opposed to history, if anything, all the ancient tech backfires on them and traditions fail to awaken zelda’s power. zelda’s urge to be a researcher is in wanting to understand the world around her, not just blindly follow ancient plans but rather have agency within them.

totk, however, is obsessed with ancient plans. the only real moment where zelda gets to geek out in totk is her getting all giddy about finding out more about the divine origins of hyrule. all the researchers in the game are concerned with finding out more about the zonai. since all the mentions of ancient sheikah technology are scrubbed from the game purah and robbie read more as strange outliers, the sheikah slate is no longer, now it’s the purah pad, a product of purah rather than something larger. the whole game is literally about following an ancient plan, a plan most characters don’t fully understand as they sign up for it. totk’s main story is built on confusion, on the characters not knowing what’s fully going on but having faith in ancient sages telling them what to do. in botw, following ancient plans you don’t fully understand was the thing that doomed you. in totk, following ancient plans you don’t fully understand is the gimmick.

that juxtaposition between the two games has an ideological through line: botw posits that progress is necessary. mindlessly relying on tradition doesn’t work. prophecies are omens, not instructions. history must be learnt from, not repeated. the ancient sheikah aren’t a group to be emulated, but rather to be learnt from, considering their machinery backfired and the royal family betrayed them. totk, however, is obsessed with the mythical history of hyrule, a time where everything was idyllic until one bad man showed up, a time we must emulate in order to win. i already talked about how the past in totk is zelda’s life pre calamity but better here, but that also plays into the idolisation of that era and its royalty. in botw, even the myth of the first calamity preserves the fact that the yiga clan has origins in the royal’s family persecution of the sheikah, even the time when they successfully held back the calamity is tinged with mistakes that still affect the world ten thousand years later. in totk, ganondorf’s origins are nebulous. nobody provoked him, nobody did anything wrong, he’s just evil because he is.

a lot of right wing ideologies are hinged on preservation, but more than that: the belief in the nebulous mythical past in which everything was better. “make america great again”, the fascist’s idolisation of ancient rome which is represented largely inaccurately, look at any conservative rhetoric and you’ll see people complaining about how things nowadays are ruined or are being ruined, how in the past things were this way and they’re not anymore, which is bad. the belief in the fact that in some past period we were great and are not anymore, and the strive to emulate that past is a trait highly typical of right wing ideologies. and in totk the past as a great era is an idea presented completely uncritically, the narrative is entirely controlled by the game and doesn’t dwell on any of the inconsistencies in this idea.

now, obviously, not every story in which a great ancient era exists is fascist, right wing or conservative. but to me what’s interesting specifically in totk is this shift between the two games: botw is critical of the past. it’s critical of arrogantly repeating history, it’s critical of having blind faith in great relics of the past. totk isn’t. totk idolizes the past, totk tells legends and tells you to believe them without any doubts. botw believes researchers are those who seek to understand the world, innovate it and solve problems without relying on ancient ways. totk believes researchers are those who discover ancient instructions, ancient ways and relay them to great men in the present to be followed. the four mainline regional quests in botw are about discovering four ancient relics that are terrorising the land and fixing the mistakes of the past. the four mainline regional quests in totk are about discovering four ancient legends are true, and receiving instructions from an ancient sage on what to do.

totk is not simply neutral, it is ideologically conservative in stark contrast to botw, because of the things it chooses to leave uncriticised, notably the things botw was very poignant about examining critically. the way totk redefines what is a researcher is indicative of this, indicative of the way it chooses to idolize or present as an unexamined good that which was nuanced in botw. totk isn’t just conservative in the sense that it presents uncritically a “good king” and “evil conquerer”, it goes deeper, it’s notable because botw was starkly opposed to the thematic axioms totk presents.

i just think it’s very interesting that they made a sequel to botw, and completely redefined or otherwise ignored botw’s thematic core.

[demiboydemon]

[ganondoodle]

okay now, im a little pissed off- i wont be reblogging the post bc its and old shitpost and i dont want to attract more notes on it but

i am so fucking, and i mean FUCKING, tired of all the shit ass excuses some people try to make to defend ganondorf being a nothing burger character

this dumb ass comment really goes all in too, and here i painfully see how much damage skyward sword has done to him bc people cant fuking think i guess "as of skysw he doesnt have an true motivation of his own- hes evil just bc he is there nothing else to it" shut the fuck up man oh my god, you dont think thats a problem? you just accept that? no no OOT also already showed hes nothing but evil tm uwu he doesnt have a reason - AND THATS A PROBLEM YOU ABSOLUTE BUFFOON

if you think that giving ganondorf a miniscule amount of ANY sort of sensical reason to do what he does, a backstory, fucking anything 'changes him into a different character'- HOW in the FUCK do you not see the problem here

and my favorite (refernceing a different character) "If hes evil, like ganondorf, which means an absolute evil, then his backstory wouldn't matter a lick" HELLO??? HELL FUCKING O???? "absolute evil" do you know how you sound like??? also EVERYTHING MATTERS oh my god, but no no of course it wouldnt matter and make no difference if you knew more about a character, no, actually, knowing less of a character is better even! why even write anything tbh? you just give them a label of good or evil and then you dont need anythign else heehoo i cannot believe this shit is now hanging on one of my posts, im struggeling to even dismantle it bc its just so goddamn stupid what do you mean it woudnt matter???????? if i knew ganondorf had a personality (especially totk bc its the worst case), if i knew he had loved ones once upon a time, he laughed and was allowed to feel like a person, whatever made him go down a bad path to end up making you defeat him would mAKE IT ALL HAVE MORE OF AN IMPACT (this is assuming that whatever path it is leads him to oppose you but also .. it doesnt have to mean hes evil or done all bad deeds, guess what, you the player could also be playing the real "villain", wouldnt that be a change of pace .. or it wouldnt, depending on how you look at it (oh NO shift of perspective???) it already is, even if i personally prefer it ALL being a spectrum and not just a label of good and bad and just rolling with this badly definable bunch of words)

do you know why i didnt give a flying fuck about the final battle in totk?? bc its all fucking NOTHING, ganondorf is a goal post with a face that got "BAD GUY" written on it in big red letters stapled on it and nothign more, you cant care about nothing and the point of any story at all is to fucking CARE

honestly a reason why i hate both "redeemable" and the good and evil descriptor is that its so ... limiting, redeemable, what does that even mean really?? it just sounds like you are applying some weirdo christian sins to make up for with good deeds shit onto characters that are, or should be, meant to make you feel something and be a pinnacle of jesus instead, like a checkbox, a scoreboard, and now its being mainly used as a negative word to dismiss legitimate criticism of boring or shitty writing bc giving any character any depth at all now automatically means you want to redeem them and thus absolve them of their sins or some shit, make them uwu perfect little good guys which is not the point (even if there are people like that, sicne guess what, theres lots of different ideas of things all around, inlcuding this hellhole- and yes there are shitty ways to give a character depth! the problem then isnt the motivation to give them depth, its the WRITING of it)

the whole good and evil thing also is just so darn limiting, what does evil even mean, who defines it matters alot, what does good mean, the definition is also really really bendable- link kills more living things than ganondorf ever has yet he isnt evil (bc hes on the side of hyrule, the designated good gouys uwu which means anythign they do is okay), the royal family having a torture dungeon and persecuting the shiekah into submission doesnt make them evil uwu but the gerudo have to suffer for the "crime" of having birthed ganondorf at some point for all eternity i guess

(as well as the very very obviously stupid turns and things ganondorf does and doesnt do literally just bc they needed him to do soemthign you could call bad even if it makes no sense at all, why would he attack his own fucking people out of nowhere, why destroy everything, literally what for, why give himself up if he wants to rule its jsut as stupidly nonsensical as the dumb magic pebbles that just gives random powers out just to force the outcome they wanted to happen)

redeemable, saveable, whatever, giving a character depth doesnt have to mean you want them to join the good tm guys either and im so fucking tired of this way of thinking, EVEN considering that hey ... it would be cool actually to have a ganondorf as the main guy, but we all should know that would only happen if he is a servant of hyrule, which i would consider to be more out of character than ... GIVIING HIM ANY SORT OF DEPTH??? to sympthaize, be conflicted or see the guy you need to defeat has a point is like, not a bad thing?? you can make someone be the most sympathetic guy of all time and still make you fight him ??? and i will repeat again, ganondorf being a nothing burger (espeically in totk) hurts EVERYTHING, everything suffers from shitty writing and lack of writing, the thing that link and zelda are almost just as flat istn .. isnt good either?? its also bad but hes got it way worse (and the racism oh bOI)!!! (there is a reason why ww ganondorf is widely seen as the best one and itse literally bc he says ONE or two lines that may make you think omg .. he is person.... he might FEEL OoO- man the bar really is below the ground isnt it)

and they dont even care to try to make him actually be dislikable, he doesnt tease zelda with killing her father or soemthing, he doesnt have any sort of connection to any of them, every line he says (in totk) is like a prepackaged microwave villain line, you could apply it to anyone, even rauru and it wouldnt seem out of place tbh (which is BAD), more depth would have connected him to the story, the world the literal everything which means people care which means a better story i dont know how to explain to you that you should be able to care about characters??????? he gets the stamp of "evil guy" on his head and they expect you to be happy with that, accept any stupid thing they make him do and others say about him without question? do you NOT feel at least a little insulted???

and like, this is still written, this is a piece of fiction, they had to sit down and write all that, or .. well, NOT write it, they decided to do it like this, despite the ocean of potential in front of them, you could do so many itneresting thigns with this world and they jsut dont and then theres people like this that are so entrechned into this boring ass writing they think that its the point, liek the point is its bad hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

"but hes not meant to be a person he jsut ev-" SHUT the hell up, nevermind the whole curse thing is an englsih trnaslation thing and also perhaps not meant to be taken literally, you think that makes it ok? that well there was a demon once (who also doesnt get any sort of depth btw!!! problem shoved one place over but still the same problem!) so that means hes not actually a person but idk a demon puppet or soemthing- doesnt change anything imo, are you not bored? are you not tired? are you happy with not thinking? not being engaged with at all? to see chaarcters to utterly flavorless you fall asleep and choke on them? i am not, i love thinking, im addicted to it even, i think every day even, right now too, they got a convenient excuse to put not even the barest fucking minimum of writing care into a character and you are jsut going with it!! where are your tastebuds buddy??

[rawliverandgoronspice]

Actually I think we should all collectively work harder at misunderstanding TLoZ canon and simping for Ganondorf and I'm not even kidding.

[jack-shadow]

Its crazy how quickly pepole have really turned on Tears of the kingdom. Like a few months after release we were all talking about how incredible it was and saying it made botw look like a tech demo, then pepole starting comparing it to breath of the Wild, and more pepole were siding with botw because it's story was a bit less all over the place, and it had the fully original world with totk just kinda piggybacked off of, which makes sense, though frankly I think it's pointless considering that both are so amazing.

But now is seeing a really negative reception, like pepole are saying it shouldn't have released, and now the public opinion is thar it was pointless or unnecessary. It's just crazy how the public consensus has changed.

And frankly I kinda miss the more positive perspective, it's not a perfect game, the sky islands are repetitive, the fused weapons look ugly, the story feels separated from breathe of the wild, and it messed up the timeline. But it also has the best combat of any zelda game, has way more interesting enemies than botw, has amazing caves, the depths were perfect, the building system was beautiful, and the story is genuinely beautiful misteps and all. I understand looking at things with a critical perspective, but can't we just enjoy flawed things and be more positive towards media, not everything needs to serious and have a point, least of all games.

of course this is not to say that pepole who didn't enjoy the game are negative pepole, I'm just saying we don't need to constantly be critical, we can just have fun

[creativesplat]

Growing up together: A very quick doodle!

[timegears]

i hate the word contrarian so fucking much because i feel like people use that word in order to brush off legit criticisms

[confess-for-botw-totk]

response to the zora poly anon. I am poly myself but... while I sorta get the appeal... I don't think the characters would do that? Yona is a kind of a non-character so I don't see the urgency to ship her with Link from nothingburger interactions either. She just isn't very interesting to me.

Tbh also a lotta poly headcanons seem to be pushed by people who have no personal experience with it?? or what makes it ethical. The consent and negotiations aspect is rarely properly touched upon. It feels like nobody has even done research into it. I also don't like how it is often treated as like a magical fix-it-all where jealousy and problems don't exist, or solely focused on one party (usually the male character) and only revolves around their needs and wants. Often as well others are just begrudgingly accepting or pressured into it, or don't tell their partners, which is a fairly toxic portrayal. It put me off those fics as someone in a real world triad.

_*_

[strawbkiwijuice]

always a bad day when you have to kill your bf in a dramatic sky battle to the death

[madamnerd]

I've deleted my Epilogue to my thoughts on Tears of the Kingdom post, basically because after a while, I realized that I don't quite feel that way at all, and was really only going off of what people said, so here's how I honestly feel about TotK. Spoilers ahead, so don't read if you haven't played it.

TotK is a fun game to play, and I enjoy playing it, but I have two major problems with it:

1. The game's mechanics and Zonai devices give the player unlimited freedom to the point of absolute ridiculousness. It's fun to play with, sure, but honestly I can't take it seriously as a Zelda game at all. It just looks too goofy... What I feel like they should have done is kept the concept of the Zonai as the Ancient Warrior Tribe of Faron (not bloody Ancient Aliens that practically replaced the Gods/Hylia, that was ridiculous) and made them magic users, while still keeping the Sheikah Tech from BotW... Sheikah Magitech combined with Ancient Warrior Zonai Magic... Now THAT would've been awesome!

2. The Story was shit. I'm sorry, but it just wasn't good at all... Not to mention that it makes a huge plot hole with Zelda becoming the Light Dragon for 10,000 years just so she could restore the Master Sword and return it to Link, like ??? Where was that in BotW then?

The total disregard for BotW that TotK has in general pisses me off so badly... I wanted a true sequel to Breath of the Wild, not a remake of it wiping out everything important before. Why is there still no Triforce? What the hell were these Secret Stones? Zelda doesn't need retconning like this (imo, it doesn't need it at all). Keep to the original driving force of the series, the Triforce. It's what's always been the center of the Zelda Universe.

... Maybe I'm just getting older and more set in my ways... I know that many of you out there love the game, and I'm happy for you, I am, and as I've said before, I like playing it too, it's fun to ding around with, but to me it just isn't Zelda. I know alot of older fans were really confused and let down by TotK. It was supposed to be huge, and, again imo, wound up being one of the biggest cash grabs Nintendo's put out there...

Hopefully Nintendo will learn from this mistake and combine some of the new elements with the older formula (cooking, multiple outfits, outfit dyeing, horse customization, multiple horses, ect.).

Feel free to comment and reblog. You think I'm wrong or an idiot? Go for it, tell me why. You agree with me or want to tell me something else? Go for it, tell me why. I welcome all opinions. Thank-you for your time in reading this.

[edgier-than-a-diamond]

In my own opinion, the single greatest flaw in both BOTW and TOTK is the lack of options when it comes to fighting strong enemies such as lynels, in TOTK especially so.

It would be much more interesting for strong enemies to have a special attack with a smaller, more obvious range that could destroy constructs.

For example, gleeoks could have a tail attack and wing attack both with a bright pink aura to denote that the attack will destroy constructs on contact. This way, players could plan how to create unique constructs and protect them while fighting instead of being prevented from using them at all.

Yes, there are ways to create constructs in totk that are useful while outside the range of the monster roar, and glitches that can prevent constructs by being destroyed by it, but casual players are not very likely to encounter these types of solutions.

[cosmicangsts]

a 3 year toxic & abusive friendship just ended y'all! he literally got mad at me for spending MY money i set aside ages ago for something i wanted ( acheron ) & today msged me an ultimatum about our friendship while putting me down, expecting me to piss shit & cry & i DIDN'T & instead stood my ground & called him out on being a controller who doesn't see me as a person with a savior complex so he DIPPED! ♡ ( not without the classic ' i'm sorry u feel that way ' & ' caring for my friend is NOT a savior complex ' & making it all about himself u best believe it was OUTSTANDING but i literally don't care i've cried so much over u )

if the new trend is a breakup at the start of every year & it means decluttering my life of incessant negativity, then honestly i am HERE FOR IT

[themarydragon]

So my friend sent me this link to a youtube video about why the TotK lore isn't interesting. I couldn't get through it without a ten-screen discord rant (on my PC monitor, not my phone) so I thought I would put some thoughts here.

I don't delve too deep into TotK story but there are def some spoilery statements below, consume at your own risk.

The initial assumptions here seem to be that (1) BotW was more respectful of "The Lore" than TotK, and that (2) TotK made some unforgiveable sins that BotW absolutely avoided.

Both of these are completely false. And I am NOT saying that neither BotW nor TotK shat upon accepted lore. They did. There is no recovering the Hyrule Historia timeline, objectively. Instead I contend that the truth is the precise opposite: Nintendo has NEVER actually cared to try to make LoZ games have ANY amount of continuity.

Take the slide at the 5 minute mark of the video linked, above, in which we see the Master Sword was created specifically to be used against Ganon, and then the 7 sages set out to find somebody valiant enough to wield it (this is from the user manual of A Link to the Past, from the SNES, which also was about The Imprisoning War). Which, if you're playing the home game, you know got ret'conned TWELVE YEARS AGO by Skyward Sword. He's using the slide to explain why it was ridiculous that Ganondorf was able to shatter the Master Sword in the prologue to TotK, which tells me they didn't pay much attention to the mechanic in BotW in which the Master Sword "runs out of power" if you use it too much. If Ganon is an aspect of Demise (again from Skyward Sword, far more recent lore than the slide being used in the vid) then the secret stone he's wielding is amplifying DEMISE (WAY stronger than just some dude), which is why he's able to shatter the blade - but still isn't enough to destroy the sword. His entire complaint about the Sword being broken suggests to me he either didn't play Skyward Sword or has forgotten it existed, and has DEFINITELY forgotten the 'weapons breaking' mechanic started in BotW.

He makes another complaint later about there not being an explanation for the disappearance of the Divine Beasts. Which, sure. I wondered what happened, and figured the 5ish years since then made it old news nobody was talking about it anymore. I get why that might have been a breaking point for somebody else. But it's not just a TotK problem; BotW didn't address it, either. We see the Divine Beasts being dug up by the Sheikah in Rhoam's flashback - how did they get buried? The towers shoot out of the ground, how did THEY get buried, after the last calamity? Who put the guardians underground? How? HOW, if nobody is allowed into the tunnels under Hyrule Castle? It didn't get explained for BotW, so why is that an unforgivable sin in TotK? They give more than a passing suggestion that Purah has repurposed the guardians - just LOOK at the Skyview Towers. The jumpscare for BotW players when you get grabbed in the Lookout Landing tower TELLS YOU where the guardians went.

There is a significant section in which video creator is quoting an interview I haven't seen (and don't give two shits about), and I think it needs to be said: what is in the game is canon. What is in the interviews from other people is, by definition, not game canon. If it was meant to be game canon it would be in the game. Neil Gaiman talks about this when people ask him for clarification of his stories, go check his FAQ if you want a really good delineation of canon from somebody with way more clout than me.

So let's just look at the lore he's defending from BotW. The map is wrong. Straight up wrong, from all the earlier Zelda games. Nintendo cannot decide where the Lost Woods should be, much less Spectacle Rock. The Temple of Time, which again is mentioned early on as a clear homage to the lore, is in the wrong damn spot. If this is the new Hyrule formed post-WindWaker (as indicated by the existance of Rito), the Temple of Time should have been destroyed. And why do the Rito and the Zora both exist? According to WindWaker, the Rito evolved from the Zora, who couldn't live in the salt of the sea. Which is a pretty big jump from the original game that had Zora in the ocean, and the two games following THAT in which they were straight-up monsters. I don't want to get into ALL the ways BotW breaks from the established lore, but there's a LOT. They don't mention the fucking Triforce ONCE, ffs, that's sort of a big damn deal.

I get there was a canon timeline published in Hyrule Historia. I bought that book for that exact reason. And, as someone who has loved this franchise since I got that first golden cartridge in 1987, I looked at that timeline once, laughed at it, and moved on with my life. BotW de-canonized that timeline already, in a LOT of ways.

So saying that TotK is evidence that Nintendo no longer cares about continuity or lore, and by NOT villifying BotW (or TP or SS) for the exact same problem is disingenuous at best. Saying that TotK is just nostalgia-baiting is ignoring the BotW map (Lake Saria, anyone? Ranch Ruins, anyone?) in general, as well as all the game-specific loot that had NO other reason to be there but straight-up nostalgia. The only reason for Zelda to mention the other heroes in the blessing we hear in the first memory is to (1) destroy the established timeline (skyward bound, adrift in time, or something about twilight, all in a world where Rito exist), or (2) prey on our nostalgia. TotK isn't any worse for putting the WW shirt and the Awakening armor into the game, in terms of wrecking the timeline or trying to feast on our nostalgia.

I'm not going to try to hypothesize what this person (or all his commenters) didn't like about the game, or why they're so willing to overlook all these problems in BotW to villify TotK. And everybody is welcome to like to dislike a game for whatever reason they want, IDGAF, you do you. What I AM saying is that for someone who's upset about the lore, he really doesn't seem to actually be aware of how inconsistent it's ALWAYS been. If TotK is the game that taught you that Nintendo isn't trying to follow their own lore, then I don't think you have been paying attention to the lore for a good long time.

tl;dr this is still my favorite series and if you hate that it breaks its own continuity then you've been asleep for the last 12 years of lore drops my good dude.

[ganondoodle]

in other news, i still hate the 'curse' demise says being seen as a literal thing so widely, like he is somehow powerful enough to bend the world to that cycle and even the gods being helpless against it (unless they want it or even orchestrated it but that option never comes up does it), its never even considered to perhaps not be real, like its a literal law of the zelda world, imo its pretty boring itself and also boring as an explanation for the cycle and most often really only gets used to or talked about to make ganondorf be just a helpless evil guy that is born evilly bc he is cursed and if you took away tha demon juice he would side with hyrule and be good tm (a side effect being that people think he is the actual reincarnation of demise like zelda is supposedly of hylia which also sucks IMO) .... or to make demise some sort of puppet master, which i hate even more no .. no i hate that the most (bc it makes ganondorf a puppet and demise the evil demon master and thus ruins both my favs yippie)