#botw spoilers

[prokopetz]

The thing I like about the Blood Moon mechanic in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom is how it affords game-mechanical transparency to the player.

Like, we all know the reason it exists is because, like any complex open-world game, BotW and TotK periodically need to hit the reset button on all non-trivial changes to the world state; in games that don't, your save file has unbounded growth due to the need to keep track of every little thing you've ever done, and eventually the system runs out of memory, save/load performance goes to shit, or both. It's basic software engineering constraints dictating the shape of play.

The thing is, most open world games try to do this subtly, perhaps by setting individual timers for the consequences of different actions to expire, or by linking world-state cleanup to proximity to the player character, but in practice it never works – trying to be sneaky about it paradoxically makes it more obtrusive to the player by rendering it opaque and unpredictable, often prompting the development of superstitious gameplay rituals to work around it.

BotW and TotK take precisely the opposite tack and make it 100% transparent and 100% predictable. Once a week, at exactly the same time of day, there's a spooky cutscene and an evil wizard undoes every change you've made to the world that doesn't have an associated quest log entry. Why everything at once, and always on the same schedule? A wizard did it. Why exactly and only those changes that don't have quest logs attached? See again: a wizard did it.

And this isn't just a gameplay conceit. Everybody knows about the evil wizard! The fact that the evil wizard keeps resetting everybody's efforts to fix the befuckening of the world is a central plot point. There are organisations whose chartered purpose is to go around redoing stuff that's been undone by the wizard.

It makes me wonder what other potential synergies between fantasy worldbuilding and mechanical transparency are going unexploited.

[puyoupuyou]

staring into the sun

partly inspired by a video essay, a great watch even tho there’s nothing relate to zelink lol

[fancyhdraws]

My favourite of Link's optional dialogue in BotW 😂 He's as dense as I am.

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[giriduck]

Maybe I’m just in a mood, or maybe it’s a cutscene-without-context thing, but rewatching the end of BotW, it’s irritating how Zelda is freed from Dark Beast Ganon, blasts the beast into oblivion with her golden goddess powers, gracefully collapses the explosion and residual Calamity whisps into a singularity, then turns to Link and thanks him / the player for defeating Ganon.

Little lady, YOU defeated Ganon. Yes, Link ran around Hyrule for weeks (or months) and recollected memories, regained his own powers, and helped pretty much everyone in the kingdom. Yes, he defeated four Blight Ganons and Calamity Ganon. Yes, Link accomplished a tremendous amount of work and absolutely deserves thanks. Yes, he is a true Hero of Hyrule.

But YOU also kept Ganon sealed for a century. YOU gave Link—and the entire kingdom—time to heal. Link freed you, so that YOU could deliver the finishing blow; something that only YOU could do.

Zelda deserves more credit for her part in this enormous team effort.

[brilliam-kovalski]

So the Zelda Lore change dropped and....

yeah, it sucks. absolute bullshittery

But they way they did it, in my opinion, makes it so you can completely ignore the changes, and just think Botw and Totk (or maybe just Totk by itself) are their own separate timelines/lore, separate from rest of the series.

The non-chalant way they wrote out stuff from main lore to fit Zonai into the zelda history feels so lifeless, you should as non-chalantly say no thanks to it and ignore it's existance.

[amnesiamilk]

Things I’d like to point out about the ancient hero

Spoilers ahead for TOTk and botw

So it’s accepted that this is the hero depicted in the calamity/imprisoning war tapestry in kakriko(apologies for misspelling) village . He obviously hold the master sword which means that Fi must have chosen him to be worthy . I’d also like to point out that he has no horns, smaller ears , and red hair. The lack of horns could just be that he’s young and zonai must not get horns until they’re of age , but still. The smaller ears mean that he has some sort of Hylian blood in him . I’d also like to point out that ganon says that Mineru and Rauru are the last of their kind, even though the ancient hero exists . Maybe ganon doesn’t consider anyone with Hylian blood to be zonai , which is why he was so judgmental of rauru marrying a Hylian . (Ok ganon we get it youre racist). this is just me drabbling my thoughts . Please add anything if I missed soemthing

[alithographica]

ok you said we could ask about weird biology and this is close i think. ok so minor totk spoilers? these r in the depths and its not story related but still beware: yknow the dark skeletons? the huge fully formed ones? what creatures R Those?

I have not yet encountered the dark skeletons and the pics on Google are not helpful so I might have to update this when I actually find them, but...

The BotW great skeletons/leviathans spawned some speculation that they were references to creatures in other Legend of Zelda games—but I can't speak to that because BotW was my first LoZ game. What I can say is that they were very reminiscent of whale skeletons, just with a fantasy flair. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the dark skeletons are similarly cetaceaned.

All 3 of the BotW leviathans were slightly different variations on this theme:

Second pic © Manyee Desandies

Those are both baleen whales—no teeth, they filter their food with a sort of hair-like structure (a baleen.) There are also toothed whales, like orcas, that have pointy predatory teeth. Now, the leviathans back in BotW...

Beyond the obvious size, note the curved upper jaw, the sweeping arc of the two sides of the lower jaw, the low and protruding orbit (eye socket), the ribs that terminate partway down the spine...That's a whale model, even once you throw on some hind limbs or wings or an armored head like BotW did.

So whatever's down in the depths: Probably also whale-adjacent fantasy fun!

[chriskotiesen]

Breath of the Wild fanart

[cultycatlady]

To become an immortal dragon is to loose oneself.

Close ups below the cut <3

[themarydragon]

So my friend sent me this link to a youtube video about why the TotK lore isn't interesting. I couldn't get through it without a ten-screen discord rant (on my PC monitor, not my phone) so I thought I would put some thoughts here.

I don't delve too deep into TotK story but there are def some spoilery statements below, consume at your own risk.

The initial assumptions here seem to be that (1) BotW was more respectful of "The Lore" than TotK, and that (2) TotK made some unforgiveable sins that BotW absolutely avoided.

Both of these are completely false. And I am NOT saying that neither BotW nor TotK shat upon accepted lore. They did. There is no recovering the Hyrule Historia timeline, objectively. Instead I contend that the truth is the precise opposite: Nintendo has NEVER actually cared to try to make LoZ games have ANY amount of continuity.

Take the slide at the 5 minute mark of the video linked, above, in which we see the Master Sword was created specifically to be used against Ganon, and then the 7 sages set out to find somebody valiant enough to wield it (this is from the user manual of A Link to the Past, from the SNES, which also was about The Imprisoning War). Which, if you're playing the home game, you know got ret'conned TWELVE YEARS AGO by Skyward Sword. He's using the slide to explain why it was ridiculous that Ganondorf was able to shatter the Master Sword in the prologue to TotK, which tells me they didn't pay much attention to the mechanic in BotW in which the Master Sword "runs out of power" if you use it too much. If Ganon is an aspect of Demise (again from Skyward Sword, far more recent lore than the slide being used in the vid) then the secret stone he's wielding is amplifying DEMISE (WAY stronger than just some dude), which is why he's able to shatter the blade - but still isn't enough to destroy the sword. His entire complaint about the Sword being broken suggests to me he either didn't play Skyward Sword or has forgotten it existed, and has DEFINITELY forgotten the 'weapons breaking' mechanic started in BotW.

He makes another complaint later about there not being an explanation for the disappearance of the Divine Beasts. Which, sure. I wondered what happened, and figured the 5ish years since then made it old news nobody was talking about it anymore. I get why that might have been a breaking point for somebody else. But it's not just a TotK problem; BotW didn't address it, either. We see the Divine Beasts being dug up by the Sheikah in Rhoam's flashback - how did they get buried? The towers shoot out of the ground, how did THEY get buried, after the last calamity? Who put the guardians underground? How? HOW, if nobody is allowed into the tunnels under Hyrule Castle? It didn't get explained for BotW, so why is that an unforgivable sin in TotK? They give more than a passing suggestion that Purah has repurposed the guardians - just LOOK at the Skyview Towers. The jumpscare for BotW players when you get grabbed in the Lookout Landing tower TELLS YOU where the guardians went.

There is a significant section in which video creator is quoting an interview I haven't seen (and don't give two shits about), and I think it needs to be said: what is in the game is canon. What is in the interviews from other people is, by definition, not game canon. If it was meant to be game canon it would be in the game. Neil Gaiman talks about this when people ask him for clarification of his stories, go check his FAQ if you want a really good delineation of canon from somebody with way more clout than me.

So let's just look at the lore he's defending from BotW. The map is wrong. Straight up wrong, from all the earlier Zelda games. Nintendo cannot decide where the Lost Woods should be, much less Spectacle Rock. The Temple of Time, which again is mentioned early on as a clear homage to the lore, is in the wrong damn spot. If this is the new Hyrule formed post-WindWaker (as indicated by the existance of Rito), the Temple of Time should have been destroyed. And why do the Rito and the Zora both exist? According to WindWaker, the Rito evolved from the Zora, who couldn't live in the salt of the sea. Which is a pretty big jump from the original game that had Zora in the ocean, and the two games following THAT in which they were straight-up monsters. I don't want to get into ALL the ways BotW breaks from the established lore, but there's a LOT. They don't mention the fucking Triforce ONCE, ffs, that's sort of a big damn deal.

I get there was a canon timeline published in Hyrule Historia. I bought that book for that exact reason. And, as someone who has loved this franchise since I got that first golden cartridge in 1987, I looked at that timeline once, laughed at it, and moved on with my life. BotW de-canonized that timeline already, in a LOT of ways.

So saying that TotK is evidence that Nintendo no longer cares about continuity or lore, and by NOT villifying BotW (or TP or SS) for the exact same problem is disingenuous at best. Saying that TotK is just nostalgia-baiting is ignoring the BotW map (Lake Saria, anyone? Ranch Ruins, anyone?) in general, as well as all the game-specific loot that had NO other reason to be there but straight-up nostalgia. The only reason for Zelda to mention the other heroes in the blessing we hear in the first memory is to (1) destroy the established timeline (skyward bound, adrift in time, or something about twilight, all in a world where Rito exist), or (2) prey on our nostalgia. TotK isn't any worse for putting the WW shirt and the Awakening armor into the game, in terms of wrecking the timeline or trying to feast on our nostalgia.

I'm not going to try to hypothesize what this person (or all his commenters) didn't like about the game, or why they're so willing to overlook all these problems in BotW to villify TotK. And everybody is welcome to like to dislike a game for whatever reason they want, IDGAF, you do you. What I AM saying is that for someone who's upset about the lore, he really doesn't seem to actually be aware of how inconsistent it's ALWAYS been. If TotK is the game that taught you that Nintendo isn't trying to follow their own lore, then I don't think you have been paying attention to the lore for a good long time.

tl;dr this is still my favorite series and if you hate that it breaks its own continuity then you've been asleep for the last 12 years of lore drops my good dude.

[almostfini]

I restarted TOTK after like 9 months break and I'm finding a lot of the same frustrations I had the first time. There's a lot of aspects I really like, but it's really imbalanced in other areas and I kinda hate it as a sequel to BOTW. Most of my friends say it's 10x better than BOTW so I feel like a party pooper but

1.BOTW is one of my favorite games of all time and

2. Part of one of my favorite series of all time

3. And I have some experience with game design so certain things bug me that other people don't care about (and that's totally fine).

I'm going to be posting about some of the things I like and dislike about TOTK and I'd love if other people shared their unpopular TOTK thoughts too (please be nice, this is just for fun)

[multbasa]

TotK spoilers: Dragon Tears quest and final boss

Visual timeline to compliment my theory about where the Triforce is throughout BotW and TotK as well as why the knowledge of the Triforce disappeared from Hyrulian society

[almost-correct-quotes]

love the way revali calls link "little knight". aw, are you only like the second shortest champion, counting him? gay little bird

[space-blue]

Guys... The art book for Zelda 2 leaked..

it's 205 pages of absolute goodness. Looks like we'll get several designs of gliders! It all looks fantastic. Here's the mirrror, though idk how long it'll be up for.

[nuzzy]

Last View

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idk I wanted to be edgy. and I wanted to draw something about memory 13 in botw. And the fact that Zelda literally saw link die?? That fact isn’t talked about enough

[that-mysterious-table]

Ok but like, what if totk does the same “dying scene” they did in botw but with the roles reversed? Like Link shows up too late or Zelda sacrifices herself and temporarily “dies”? We watch him gather her in his arms and you can see the exact same words zelda said in botw in his eyes. He realizes how limp she is, tucks her head under his chin and the erhu version of Zelda’s lullaby we’ve been hearing in all the trailers starts to play as it hits him. She’s gone. He’s failed. Not just as the hero, but as a knight. As a partner. As a friend. His eyes widen. His shoulders start to heave and you realize this guy, who’s been calm and stoic for the whole series, is panicking. He knows he needs to move; to make a new plan now that Zelda is no longer there to help save hyrule. But he can’t. He cradles her and stares off into the distance because he can’t see his future anymore. In that moment, a safe world doesn’t mean anything if it’s without her, hyrule be damned. He’s alone in the one way he prayed he’d never experience again. He squeezes his eyes shut as tears begin to stream down his face and he mourns.