#polyamory discussion

[aceing-on-the-cake]

I do not have what anyone could describe as a societally normal take on relationship dynamics. I am arospec, aspec, and polyamorous. The way I am inherently going to look at and define relationships, is automatically going to be different than the vast majority of people because of those three factors all interworking together.

Which means that even when I'm engaging in a statistically normal relationship dynamic, such as monogamy, the way in which I engage in monogamy is going to be extremely different than the way most other people engage in monogamy. Because like monogamy is an action, it is a relationship structure that you can choose to use or not use, and in the same way an asexual person can choose to have sex with someone regardless of their asctual attraction, me engaging in monogamy is not going to change the way in which I perceive the world and relationship dynamics as a whole.

So a lot of my ideals, or even simple things like what my boundaries are within a monogamous relationship for my other partner, are very different from their ideals and instinctive boundaries. Which that's not a problem, I am in a monogamous relationship because I don't mind engaging in that relationship structure with the person I'm engaging it in with, but that is not my automatic instinctive need or even want.

So like when it comes to things like what is cheating to you conversations, such as what kind of physical contact do you consider to be crossing lines with other people, looks incredibly different for me than it does for my partner. It's always going to look different, because my bar is always going to be "if the other person knows who I am and my place in your life, you're not making me less important in your life, and you're letting me know the very basics of the things you're engaging in (I'm literally talking all they'd have to mention is they want to sleep with another person, they want to go on a date with this other person, they want to cuddle pretty frequently with this other person, etc), then I'm fine."

And it's ok that my partner's list is longer. It's ok that they have a longer list of types of physical contact they are and are not ok with me engaging in with other people (i.e. kissing, cuddling in a bed specifically, etc), because again, I am choosing to participate in a monogamous relationship structure with this individual because I enjoy their company more than the prospect of engaging in polyamory in general.

But it's important to know that I am still a polyamorous person regardless of the relationship structure I choose to be in, the same way a bisexual person is still bisexual, no matter who they choose to be in a relationship with.

Actions, do not define your queerness, or define the way you view society, or define how you view cishetero/amatonormative ideals. They never will.

[screaming-sparrow]

poly-truthing the torchwood 3 team + rhys and martha

[crimeronan]

i've seen a couple people in the notes of this very good post about fictional polyamory by @thebibliosphere say things along the lines of "oh, i've been doing it wrong :(" or "how do i know if i did this right??" or "i should probably give up and start over, i wrote this badly :(" and. no!!!!

(i AM seeing far MORE people say "oh, this clarified and helped me so much, i think i know how to fix issues i've been having with my own story" which. YES!!!!)

listen. if you're a monogamous person who's writing a polyamorous relationship, and you've been focusing mainly on The Triad and All Three Together All The Time as the endgame, that's literally fine. that's a perfectly acceptable and strong starting point for your plotting, imo. you do not need to give up on a story that you've started like this.

but the things discussed in the post Can and Should improve your execution!

you can keep the same plot beats and overall relationship arc 100%. polyamorous relationships are infinite in their formations, every one is unique. "basically a monogamous romance but with three people" Does exist, as a relationship type. you're not hashtag Misrepresenting (TM) poly people with it

BUT i do think it will help to read up on some poly people talking about how their relationships Differ from monogamous ones.

so i have outlined some basic important concepts about polyamory.

MORE IMPORTANTLY though, i've broken down some questions that you can answer throughout the writing process to strengthen your individual dyad relationships, your individual characterization, & your characters' individual feelings/experiences. this is a writing resource have fun

future kitkat butting in to say i spent over two hours writing this and it definitely needs a readmore. it is also NOT comprehensive. but everything should be pretty simple to follow! feel free to reblog if you find it helpful yourself or just want to reward me for how gotdan long this took KSLDKFJKDL.

i've grabbed quick links for a couple of the important concepts, some have SEO pitches in them but the info largely seems to be good. (if i missed anything Egregiously Gross on these sites i should be able to update the links with better ones later, since they're under the readmore.)

sidenote: this is NOT meant to be overwhelming, despite the length. if you can't read all of this, that's Okay. you do not need to give up on your writing.

here we go:

compersion!

compersion is a BIG thing in a lot of polyamorous relationships. it's joy derived from seeing two (or more) of your partners happy together, or joy derived from seeing your partner happy with someone else.

compersion is really important as a concept because it highlights that every individual relationship within a polycule is different -- and that that's a GOOD thing. it's sort of the inverse of jealousy.

by the "inverse of jealousy," i mean that instead of feeling left out and upset and possessive, you feel happy/joyous/content.

i can use personal experience as an example: it's a Relief for me when my partners receive joy/support/sex/romance/etc that i can't (or prefer not to) give them. and i love seeing my partners make each other laugh and be silly together.

it's 100% okay for a poly triad not to be together 100% of the time, it doesn't mean that the third member is being left out or not treated equally when two people do things alone together.

(i have individual dates with my partners all the time! PLUS larger 3-and-4-person date nights.)

if the third member DOES feel jealous or left out, then the polycule can have a conversation to figure out what needs/wants aren't being met, and solve that. this happens semi-regularly in my polycule, as it will happen in any relationship (including monogamous ones)! it's just part of being an adult, sometimes you have to talk about feelings.

metamours!

a metamour is someone who is dating your partner, but ISN'T dating you. this may not be relevant for people writing closed three-person romantic sexual triads, but it's a super helpful term to know.

the linked article also lists different types of metamour relationships with some fun phrasing i hadn't heard before. the tl;dr is: sometimes you'll be domestic cohabitation friends, sometimes you'll be buddies with your own friendship, sometimes you might not interact much outside of parties, every relationship is different.

there's no one-size-fits-all requirement for metamour relationships. sometimes polyamorous people will end up dating their metamour after a while (has happened to me), sometimes polyamorous people will break up with one partner for normal life reasons, but remain friendly metamours.

the goal of polyamory is NOT for EVERYONE to fall in love. it is 100% okay if this happens in your story, it happens in real life too! but it is also 100% okay for characters to be metamours without ever becoming "more than friends."

(sidenote: try to kill any internalized "more than" that you have when it comes to friendship. friends are just as important and special and vital as partners.)

of course there are a million ways for messiness to occur with metamours within a complex polycule, exactly like with close-knit platonic friend groups. however this post is not about that! there's enough "here's how polyamory can go wrong" stuff out there already, so i'm focusing on the positives here :)

open versus closed polyamorous relationships!

i'm struggling to find an online article that reflects my experience without directly contradicting at least SOME stuff. so i'll give a quick rundown

google has a bunch of conflicting definitions of open relationships and whether open relationships are different from polyamory. the general consensus seems to be that an open relationship prioritizes one partnership (often a marriage), but that each partner can have extraneous flings or long-term commitments (most often sexual in nature).

this is not typically how i use the term wrt polyamory. the poly concept is pretty simple. a closed polyamorous relationship is one with boundaries like a monogamous one. there are multiple partners in the polycule, but they are not interested in having anybody new join said polycule.

an open polyamorous relationship tends to be more flexible -- it just means that IF someone in the polycule develops mutual feelings for a new person, it's fine for them to become part of said polycule if they want to! the relationship/person is open to newcomers.

some groups will need to negotiate this all together, others will just go "haha, you kids have fun." just depends on the individuals!

with open AND closed polyamorous relationships, the most important thing is making sure that there's respectful communication and that everyone is on the same page. but there's no one-size-fits-all way to do that.

i wish i could give you guys a prescriptive "You Must Do It This Way" guide, but that's.... basically the opposite of what polyamory is about, HAHA.

feelings for multiple people!

i was gonna tack this on to the previous section but decided it warranted its own lil bit.

a defining feature (....i'm told?) of monogamous relationships is that a monogamous person only has feelings for One individual at a time. they only want a relationship with one individual at a time. or, if they DO have feelings for multiple people simultaneously, they're still only comfortable dating one person at a time & being exclusive with that one person.

this is perfectly fine!

the poly experience is generally different from this. but once again..... polyamorous people all have different individual perspectives on this.

for me, i have never been able to draw hard boxes around romantic vs sexual vs platonic relationships, & i love many people at once. my personal polycule lacks many strict definitions beyond "these are my chosen people, i want to forge a life with them indefinitely, whatever shape that life takes"

some poly people feel explicit romantic or sexual attraction to multiple people at once, some poly people feel almost no romantic or sexual attraction at all. i'd say that MOST poly people feel different things for different partners, which is not a bad thing!

some poly people are even monogamous-leaning -- they have just chosen one romantic partner who is themselves part of a larger polycule. (so this monogamous-leaning person has at least one metamour!)

or alternatively, they might have one romantic partner AND a qpr, or other ways of defining relationships. (this is a factor in my own polycule!)

i made this its own point because if you're writing a straightforward triad, this is unlikely to come up in the story itself -- but it's worth thinking about how your characters develop/handle feelings outside of their partnerships.

like, is this sort of a soulmateship, 'these are the only ones for me' type deal? in which they won't fall in love with anyone else, and can be fairly certain of that?

that's pretty close to typical monogamous standards but you Can make it work. just be thoughtful with it

alternatively, can you see any of these characters falling in love Again after the happily-ever-after? and how would the triad approach it, if so? what would they all need to talk about beforehand, and what feelings would everybody have about the situation?

it's worth considering these questions even if the hypothetical will never feature in your actual canon, because knowing the answers to these questions will help you understand all of the individuals & their relationship(s) MUCH better.

i've been typing this for nearly two hours and there's a lot more i COULD say because... there's just a lot to say. i'll close out with some quick questions that you can ask yourself when developing the dyad dynamics within your triad

first, take a page and create a separate section for each individual dyad. then answer these questions for every pair:

how does each pair act when alone?

how do they act differently alone compared to when they're with their third partner?

are there any elements of this dyad (romantic, sexual, financial, domestic, etc) that these two people DON'T have with the third partner?

if so, what are they?

are there any boundaries or hard limits within this dyad that aren't shared with the third partner?

if so, what are they?

partner 3 goes out of town alone for a few weeks. what are the remaining two doing in their absence?

(doesn't have to be anything special, it's just to get a sense of how the two interact on a day-by-day basis without the third there)

what is something that each partner in the dyad admires about the other -- that they DON'T necessarily see in the third partner?

what problem do These Two Specifically need to solve in the story before their relationship will work?

how is that problem DIFFERENT from the problems being solved within the other two dyads?

doing this for ALL THREE dyads is VITAL imo. that way, you develop complex and nuanced and different relationships that all have unique dynamics.

those questions should be enough to get you started, i hope

then After you've charted the differences in relationships, you can start to jot down similarities in the overarching triad. what does one person admire in Both of their partners? what are activities that all three like to do together? what are boundaries or discussions that all three share?

but the main goal is to figure out how to Differentiate each relationship!

a polycule is only as strong as the individual relationships within it. if two people are struggling with their own relationship, adding a third person won't fix that.

(UNLESS the third person is the catalyst for those two to, like, Actually Communicate And Work Their Shit Out. i just mean that the old adage of "maybe if we just add a third-" works about as well to fix a miserable non-communicative marriage as, uh, "maybe if we have a baby-")

AND FINALLY.

if you're not sure whether your poly romance reads organically to poly people, you can hire a sensitivity reader with poly experience. if you can't afford that, you can read up on polyamorous resources like a glossary of terms & articles actually written by poly people. (and stories written by poly people!)

you can also just.... ask poly people questions, if they're open to it. i like talking about polyamory and my own relationships so you're welcome to send asks if u want, i just can't guarantee i'll answer bc my energy levels fluctuate a lot and i don't always have time.

polyamorous people are in an uphill battle for positive representation right now & so the LAST thing i want to see is authors giving up on their stories bc they're worried about getting things Wrong. well-meaning and positive stories that treat this kind of love as normal, healthy, & aspirational are So So So Needed. even if you guys end up with some funky-feeling details.

seriously, if you're monogamous then you probably don't have a full idea of Just How Nasty a lot of people can get about polyamory. i wish it DIDN'T mean so much for you guys to want to write nice stories about us, but it does mean a lot. and it means a lot that you want to do it WELL.

in conclusion. this is not a prescriptive guide, it's just a way to raise questions. and also, you all are doing FINE.

[bandtrees]

they would get divorced in one universe just to find eachother in another one

alternatively titled: sometimes you're the level-headed token flesh-head impulse-control-and-polycule-member of a stubborn, eccentric, and hearty telephone-headed drug addict, and there's cruelty in the world you deem fit to suicidally fight, and that either goes about as well as you'd expect it to, or you learn about love and the value of your life and junk along the way

[danandfuckingjonlmao]

where are my girlies (g/n) who love charles and love crystal and hate them together and why are you not in my dms

[kaiju-krew]

I hate to be a massive Debbie downer/party pooper but I really don't like this idea of polyamorous shipping because Mothzilla is just too perfect for that kind of thing. Didn't you say some time ago you didn't like the idea of Mothra cheating on Goji and vice versa? Like when you drew Zeuszilla and said that unlike Zeus Goji is actually loyal to his wife haha.

(You can thank Miss Queen B's Monsterverse AU fanfic series for that. If you've read them you can understand why I don't like cheating/poly shipping)

i understand where you're coming from but i think it's worth saying

alternate polyamorous ship =/= a ship cheating on each other

i've always put down a delineation between these things - in my own main au of the kaijuverse, mothzilla is 'exclusive', or as close as you can get to that when we're talking about giant interspecies monster relationships. but i've also been very open about being a multishipping creature at heart, and don't view mothzilla as any less 'perfect' just because i play with the idea of another version of my personal au where they're open/poly. it doesn't take away from, or denigrate their baseline ship dynamic just because i'm willing to explore different dynamics i find interesting.

they wouldn't ever 'cheat' on each other, because they'd never do something outside the pairing without the other's consent. hope that makes sense

[jellymellydraws]

Re: Spawn!Astarion's data mined lines when Tav sleeps with Mizora

Idk how to explain to people that a poly relationship isn't synonymous with "open relationship." Every poly person is different, and Astarion consenting to his partner having sex with one specific person is NOT the same as consenting to his partner having sex with anyone whenever they choose.

Even in the dialogue options when exploring a poly dynamic with him, he has reasons for not wanting to share his partner with anyone except Halsin. Halsin checks boxes for Astarion that make him feel safe with sharing. He voices his concern over it being about sex (which he is insecure about for his personal reasons and for not wanting to lose Tav reasons).

This is how a healthy poly dynamic works. The partners set CLEAR expectations, boundaries, and voice their concerns. Anything unclear, unstated, or otherwise ambiguous is NOT "well it's similar to this thing we already do so it should be fine!"

That's why his lines include calling Tav selfish. His feelings weren't considered, weren't checked in on.

If Halsin didn't insist that Tav speak to their partner first, I would argue that Astarion would've reacted the same way if they slept with the bear.

No "go ahead and climb mt.Halsin!" And no "don't mind me, I'm enjoying the show."

He would be hurt. Betrayed. Cheated on.

But he's still polyamorous.

[lullabyofthejotnar]

Why do you think Sigyn was never added to the game, I doubt she’d be a love interest but just as a Aesir?

I think her being excluded entirely even without her role as Loki's lover is because of how much the game changed what happens in the myths. Due to Angrboða already taking the role of a main love interest, Sigyn's existence is, as harsh as it sounds, kind of pointless. Now, SMS does play around a ton with how the myths go, so it's not certain they wouldn't make her entirely seperate from her origins, like it was done with Kara for example.

Sigyn also plays a vital part in Loki's story; staying beside him while he's imprisoned for killing Baldr, collecting the venom from a snake placed above Loki until Ragnarök comes. This part of the myths wasn't present, therefore (most likely) Sigyn as a whole was left out.

But more importantly, Angrboða's arc is a play on how we have only one mention of her existing. This real life fact was turned into a prophecy of Angrboða being left behind by Loki once she's done playing her part. GoW is about defining fate and choosing your own path - Angrboða's story (for now) ends with her doing so. Introducing Sigyn as a second wife after this would throw everything out of the window.

Of course, anything can happen. SMS could include Sigyn in the future, in whatever way that would go. We as fans can't be certain what the writers will do.

Sigyn & Loki's love is a very good and underused concept for a story, however GoWR is one of the pieces of media which choose to not adapt it (yet?). It is one of my favorite myths, but I prefer it not existing at all over a butchered interpretation.

[femmmie]

[aphverse-confessions]

Maybe this is too obscure but I'm kinda disappointed by the lack of polyam characters/art in this fandom. The "has two hands mentality" literally changed my life and when I looked at Aphverse stuff, especially Minecraft Diaries with Garroth, Laurance and Aphmau and it just feels like the obvious solution to me. I just feel like there's a lot of untapped potential for polyamory in these stories especially given how much the fandom loves shopping.

.

[moreroads]

-taps the microphone-

Just because I'm ace, doesnt mean I'm off the menu.

Just because I'm aro, doesn't mean I'm off the menu.

PLEASE!!!! please, don't automatically write me off as "not wanting a relationship" or "not wanting sex" because you have found out that I am ace and aro.

ESPECIALLY, if you did not find out from me.

[demigod-of-the-agni]

I think it'd be really funny that when Pavitr and Gayatri attend college they meet Meera, Gayatri's "long time best friend". It's funnier later on when Pavitr gets a crush on Meera and is sweating buckets trying to figure out how he should tell Gayatri that he likes a girl other than his girlfriend. And not just any girl, her best friend.

He's rounding a corner, hyping himself up to tell her the truth and envisioning a million possible wrong scenarios, when he turns and sees Gayatri and Meera kissing passionately in front of him.

Meera: Pavitr I can explain! Pavitr: You're in love with Meera too?! Gayatri: Too?!? You had a crush on my girlfriend!? Pavitr: You're my girlfriend!! Meera: [crying in bisexual]

They form a polycule btw

[nancys-braids]

BRAD WANTS BOBBY CARNALLY AND I WILL NEVER GET OVER IT HES LIKE BOBBY IF YOU FUCK ME THEN ILL GET SOME OF YOUR POWER INSIDE ME AND BOBBY IS LIKE 0-0 THIS BAGEL TASTES GOOD THANSK FOR ASKINNG

DFJHDKFGHLGFHDJH anon i dont know you but i am so obsessed with you and your brain

he wants him so bad i dont make the rules

[angelicdevil]

Gotta love (sarcasm) when you see someone defending whichever queer identity is the current punching bag but then go to their blog and see they’ve never once had that energy for asexuals

Like is this kind of discourse harmful and stupid when it’s against everyone except for us? You can’t even be bothered to reblog a positivity post for appearances? Every single post on your blog mentioning aces is either making fun of asexuals or taking sock puppets at face value and “le epic owning” them, why are we the special exception to your acceptance?

[mx-myth]

Personally as an aroace being in a queerplatonic relationship and/or a poly relationship sound really freeing to me. I feel like in a QPR there would be less pressure to be more amatonormative or present that way. The kind of "omg I totally thought you guys were dating" sort of relationship that just comes from the pure intimacy of willing to be comfortable around each other and to be intimate without necessarily having to involve kissing/sex/"real" intimacy (and the possible aro or ace solidarity). Meanwhile in a poly relationship I feel like at least for me there would be less pressure be "involved" to an extent. A whole other person (or people) would negate a lot of anxiety on my part enough not being enough (especially if one or more of them are alloromantic). And potentially that's someone who can provide romance or sex that I just can't.

Obviously these are still relationships that you consciously need to put work into maintain and have open lines of communication and discussions of boundaries, etcetera, just like any "normal" relationship but that's really the point here. I'm not allo (and I'm perfectly fine with being "abnormal" by most societal standards, but that's obviously not true for all of us) in any way, shape, or form, so why should I have to fit myself into a little allo box?

[tavtime]

I think I finally figured out what exactly is bothering me about all these "Halsin's inability to commit is a symptom of his past trauma with the drow" posts. The subtext to basically all of these analyses that I've seen is that he would want commitment in absence of that trauma, that amatonormative/mononormative commitment mimicking or at least adjacent to monogamous commitment is the default and preferable state for his character (read: for any character). That is, at best, a deeply incurious reading of the character that neglects 1) his own stated nuanced feelings about his confinement and 2) his clearly declared preferences about how he conducts intimate involvements.

It's just... as a polyamorous person who empathizes a lot with what Halsin has laid out as his very clear preferences, seeing all this is. Not fun! It's a little too reminiscent of everyone I've ever dated who was convinced they could Change Me Through The Power Of Love. Halsin's feelings for the player character are not less valid for having priorities that don't include cohabitation.