moonglide

[moonglide]

The True Prophecy (art/comic thing)(weird route shit)(blood/death tw)

idk I needed some sort of title I worked really hard on this

I don't actually think that the weird route follows the prophecy, but what if...?

ok ill reblog this explaining certain things later but I just wanted to get it out there because I'm going to summer camp. like. tomorrow.

(also my name isn't Alex it was just a generic name)

[moonglide]

HOLY SHIT

guys I just had an epiphany that may not be that clever. but Dess is to Carol what Gerson is to Susie okay. Carol has the EXACT SAME MINDSET that Susie has of wanting to be able to return to the way things were before when sometimes you just gotta learn to let go. and maybe the knight being all fucked up and goopy is part of that too but I'm not 100% sure.

wait a goddamn second that's Asgore's motivation too...

(edit: and also tenna. and Noelle. and queen, to a lesser extent.)

it's almost like I've stumbled upon one of the core themes of the game. who'd've thunk it.

[moonglide]

New animatic... snowing some graves. Having free time is dangerous

[moonglide]

they've been adding pronouns to the deltarune wiki

[moonglide]

???

What? What? What? What? What? What????

[moonglide]

Just sealed the titan. And…

Still LV 4. I’m at 2 slain…probably because I killed the two titan spawn. They disintegrated into red like that Maus does if you use snowgrave on it. Idk if that mouse would count for the slain count if I had done most of the weird route and killed it.

Also, I used the black shard to kill them-idk if it’s the same result when using a different weapon. But if it’s not, that just makes me all the more convinced that the knight’s knife is a twisted sword. (Description is “fatal”, just like snowgrave’s, and it could be “twisted” in the sense of “fucked up and evil” and not physically twisty.)

Dark World LV is NOT from sealing fountains

I thought it was, but look!

Here I am, in the second sanctuary, still at LV 4. By this time, I've sealed four fountains, which means I should be at LV 5. I haven't checked in the third sanctuary yet-so it might have something to do with how the fountain in the first sanctuary was weirdly small, but I'll be back with an update soon to see.

[moonglide]

Ok, so apparently it’s not just Seam. I tried selling it at the pool of water in Gerson’s study and it didn’t work either. So it has nothing to do with Seam, specifically. I also doubt the Pipis thing, because I can sell TV Dinners. Somebody commented that you can’t sell it in ch 3 either…they suggested it was because it was a gold reward, but I was able to sell the Tenna Tie, so…idk??? It’s very suspicious.

Seam won’t accept the Blue Ribbon?

I was selling my excess armors to seam, as you do, when I noticed that he wouldn’t let me sell him the blue ribbon. So I tested it with other items and weapons and armors -the ONLY ones that give the same reaction are secret boss related items. (Jevilstail, Puppetscarf, Pipis, Shadow Mantle, Black Shard.) So to me, this implies that

A: The blue ribbon is made from Pipis (it’s blue)

or B: Seam, presumably being Asriel’s old plush, has some kind of history with it.

[moonglide]

Seam won’t accept the Blue Ribbon?

I was selling my excess armors to seam, as you do, when I noticed that he wouldn’t let me sell him the blue ribbon. So I tested it with other items and weapons and armors -the ONLY ones that give the same reaction are secret boss related items. (Jevilstail, Puppetscarf, Pipis, Shadow Mantle, Black Shard.) So to me, this implies that

A: The blue ribbon is made from Pipis (it’s blue)

or B: Seam, presumably being Asriel’s old plush, has some kind of history with it.

[moonglide]

hey isn't it kind go weird that in the sword route at one point you have to kill seven flowers and then a monster that looks like asgore. which could mean nothing.

[moonglide]

It's really cool how, after Chapter 2 established the idea of Darkners (who aren't Ralsei) eventually petrifying when in a Dark World they 'don't belong' in, both Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 found a way to use that idea in really weird and creative ways to enhance their themes.

Chapter 3 blurs the seemingly obvious lines of "every Darkner belongs in the Dark World that created them", asks what does it really mean to 'belong'. A Plugboy (Ramb) and plenty of Pippins were brought to life via the Dark Fountain that created everything in TV World… and yet there are characters expressing the idea they don't belong due to their Dark World Backstories that means that they come from other Worlds - even if these obwere still totally in Kris' living room when those those Dark Fountains were opened.

And then it messes with it even further by having all the Pippins be totally fine, while Ramb the Plugboy and even one of the Zappers got petrified. It seems like the idea of belonging or not belonging in a Dark World is a lot more abstract and emotion-based then we previously thought. The Pippin's dialogue about Ramb implies he got petrified simply because he never really made friends, because he never fit in.

And that just… really helps the atmosphere of the endgame of TV World. The way that Tenna's obsession and breakdown is causing his world to crumble all around him, causing his own people to feel alienated. And this idea of feeling like you never really belong in your own home obviously fits in with the undercurrents of Dreemurr Family Drama that run through the entire chapter.

Meanwhile in Chapter 4, the Petrification is used to emphasize the narrative element of Predestination and, well, Prophecy. Because it's not just that the Darkners from the original "Dark Sanctuary" manifest as Petrified when Susie creates her "Second Sanctuary"

The Darkners of the Second Sanctuary already appeared Petrified in the First Sanctuary.

Meaning that basically, as far as the Dark Worlds were concerned, Susie's creation of the Second Sanctuary was preordained. So preordained that the objects that would become the Darkners that populate that Dark World came to life as soon as the First Sanctuary did, but then turned to stone because they actually belonged in that not-yet-created other Sanctuary.

[moonglide]

Something I noticed in chapter four

In the window egg room in chapter four, there's a couple npcs that give the dialogue, "what do you call a man with one eye? Why does the angel make its cry?" which I think is very reminiscent of "is that a cut on your face, or part of your eye?/The gash weaves down as if you cry/the pain itself is reason why" dialogue that can show up if you try to check an. Maybe it's just the rhyme of "eye" and "cry", but idk.

There's also the "what do you call the girl who snows? I don't know...I don't know!" Which is also Very Suspicious. and very Noelle related.

[moonglide]

it’s worth noting that these flowers are almost certainly the flowers from his wedding bouquet. One of the pictures in his fridge specifically mentions that Toriel is holding a bouquet of seven flowers. So that’ll definitely affect things.

thinking of the Probable Asgore Boss Fight i’ve been thinking about it myself and wondering like. What if it’s actually the flowers under glass that are the main boss fight (or at least some kind of Major Encounter.) A flower also features in his prophecy mural. He says in chapter two that he talks to them, which would definitely give them some attachment to him if they became darkners. (perhaps even being His Best Friend?) And his and toriel’s wedding bouquet becoming a manifestation of jealousy and nostalgia that them grows to become harmful to his kid feels like the sort of imagery toby would like.

no yeah that definitely tracks. i think we're going to see what happens when a dark world Strongly loves a Lightner without any of the resentment tenna had or anything; a world that loves Asgore and wants to help him in never letting go

[moonglide]

chapter four weird route spoilers

ok I do have to say that. If you do actually believe that Kris literally, actually, implanted a piece of the soul into Noelle….please look up the definition of a metaphor. Please.

[moonglide]

Carol and Susie elemental analysis (chapter 3/4 spoilers)

To preface this, I only thought about this because of Persistant Variables over on AO3. It is an INCREDIBLE fic (it’s also finished!! So go read it!!) that cooked in a lot of aspects, but what I’m focusing on right now is that BewareTheDragon (the author), made the Ice/Order and Fire/Rude elemental pairs. (They also completed the trio with Dust/Chaos, but that’s not really relevant to this post). And I think that they were already good pairs, but in light of the new chapters, they work especially well. (Actual analysis under the cut).

Carol, of course, really, REALLY, embodies Ice/Order. There’s the obvious factors that she’s a reindeer, her whole family is Christmas/Winter themed, and that her color scheme is what it is. But there’s also how she always keeps her AC on full blast. Her hand on Kris’s shoulder is described as “icy.” She’s a very cold person in general, and so far hasn’t shown much emotion at all outside of “calm fury,” if that makes sense. And order is a big facet of her character. Everything under her control HAS to be frozen and in its proper place. In her house, Dess’s room is still. Unchanging. Exactly as she left it when she disappeared. Noelle’s show of care (the paper mache snowflakes) were bronzed and hung up to never be touched by the outside world. The grand piano just sits in the room adjacent to the kitchen, and hasn’t been touched in years.

But her house isn’t the only thing under control-she’s the mayor. She’s pretty much ALWAYS been the mayor. She always will be the mayor because she runs unopposed. Any and all crime is swiftly eliminated to protect her perfect town. Hometown is pretty static and unchanging. (Also, she’s supporting Asgore’s “you-know-what”-likely his attempts at courting Toriel-to get things back the way they were. And this isn’t technically confirmed yet, but she’s TOTALLY trying to bring Dess back. Like, 100%.)

And then there’s Susie. Fire/Rude embodies her perfectly. I mean, for starters, Rude Buster is the only Rude-elemental attack in the game, iirc. In Persistent Variables, Ralsei describes the Rude element as a “defiance against existence”-and while I wouldn’t go that far, I think it’s definitely a defiance against stasis, and the status quo. It’s not Chaos, which tears apart Order at the seams, but it’s still rebellion. It’s constant change, even against the order within herself. Susie pretty much facilitates ALL of the major character growth in Deltarune. It’s because of her that Kris is no longer an outcast loner. It’s because of her that Ralsei hopes that the prophecy can be changed, and that he thinks of himself as a less worthless than he initially thought. It’s because of her that Noelle, at least in the dark world, gains the courage to stand up to an analogue of her controlling mother. It’s because of her that Berdly (dark world only, again, but he thought it was a dream) is more receptive to accepting help from others (and not being so goddamn high and mighty (which is part of HIS own Holy/Electric elemental pair but that’s another can of worms)).

When Ralsei tries to teach her Heal Prayer (probably a holy/electric spell) she instead learns Ultimate Heal, which unlike Heal Prayer, gets better and better with each successive use. And sure, Gerson is the one to encourage her to use her healing, but she was the one to reach out to Ralsei and try to learn in the first place.

When it comes to fire, the connection’s a little less strong, but it’s still there. She’s a dragon, and Gerson says that she’s THE dragon in Dragon Blazers, which is based off the prophecy. He also says, “I see a future lit up in your eyes. Burnin’ bright. Burnin’ black. Burnin’ up everything”. And while the whole “garden is charred in an inferno of jealousy” thing probably refers to Asgore’s fire powers, chapter five will take place during the festival. Which. You know. Is a very easy place for jealousy to arise. Also, iirc, there was an interview where Toby said he originally wanted to give a character a fire spell, but ultimately decided against it. Which totally could be Susie.

And these things quickly put Susie and Carol at odds. Susie is a new girl in Carol’s perfect town that’s changing things. You can SEE when Susie sits down at the foot of Dess’s bed, Noelle is shocked. Carol has raised her to think of the past as unchanging and untouchable. But you can also see when that effect melts away and Noelle decides to sit down too. Same with the guitar. Nobody’s used the red (orange. It’s orange. But whatever.) guitar in ages, and it stayed that way until Susie grabbed hold of it. Noelle, again, is shocked-but then she thinks for a moment, and relents, and decides that Susie should play it. To breathe new life into the past. And when Carol gets home, and sees that Susie is holding the guitar, she’s affronted, because Susie is, from her perspective, defiling Carol’s attempt at preserving the past.

All this to say, especially with the other protagonist traits that Susie has, I’m convinced that if Deltarune weren’t a video game where we were forced to play as Kris, and instead literally any other form of media, Susie would totally be the main character. Especially in a non-dark world AU where it’s just small-town drama.

Idk. I probably missed something. But tell me what you guys think.

Edit: I completely forgot to talk about the prophecy!! Susie rebels against the prophecy and that’s another connection to the rude element. Ok bye.

TL;DR: Carol’s associated with Ice/Order because her whole deal is perfectly preserving the past, and Susie’s associated with Fire/Rude because her whole deal is rebellion, facilitating change, and melting the ice that Carol is making. Also, go read Persistent Variables over on AO3.

[moonglide]

this is so helpful...thank u

ALL text about the prophecy

compiled for convenience

Ralsei's legend:

Once upon a time, a LEGEND was whispered among shadows. It was a LEGEND of HOPE. It was a LEGEND of DREAMS. It was a LEGEND of LIGHT. It was a LEGEND of DARK. This is the legend of DELTA RUNE.

For millenia, LIGHT and DARK have lived in balance, Bringing peace to the WORLD. But if this harmony were to shatter… a terrible calamity would occur. The sky will run black with terror and the land will crack with fear. Then, her heart pounding… The EARTH will draw her final breath. Only then, shining with hope… Three HEROES appear at WORLDS' edge. A HUMAN, A MONSTER, And a PRINCE FROM THE DARK. Only they can seal the fountains and banish the ANGEL'S HEAVEN. Only then will balance be restored, and the WORLD saved from destruction. Today, the FOUNTAIN OF DARKNESS- The geyser that gives this land form- Stands tall at the center of the kingdom. But recently, another fountain has appeared on the horizon… And with it, the balance of LIGHT and DARK begins to shift…

Gerson's explanation in Undertale:

That's the Delta Rune, the emblem of our kingdom. The Kingdom… of Monsters. That emblem actually predates written history. The original meaning has been lost to time… The triangles symbolize us monsters below, and the winged circle above symbolizes the 'angel', from the prophecy…

Legend has it, an 'angel' who has seen the surface will descend from above and bring us freedom. Lately, the people have been taking a bleaker outlook… Callin' that winged circle the 'Angel of Death'. A harbinger of destruction, waitin' to 'free' us from this mortal realm…

The church's stained glasses [brackets r me]:

the prophecy, which whispers among the shadows.

the legend of this world. deltarune.

a world basked in purest light. beneath it, grew eternal night.

if fountains freed, the roaring cries. and titans shape from darkened eyes.

the light and dark, both burning dire. a countdown to the earth's expire.

but lo, on hopes and dreams they send. three heroes at the world's end.

the first hero. the cage, with human soul and parts!

the second hero. the girl, with hope crossed on her heart.

love [LOVE?] finds its way to the girl.

the third hero. the prince, alone in deepest dark

and last, was the girl. at last, was the girl.

they'll hear the ring of heaven's call.

they'll see the tail of hell take crawl.

the knight which makes with blackened knife.

shall duel with heroes strife by strife.

the last prophecy. the story's end.

to save the worlds, there is only one way.

and then. when all hope is lost for the tale.

the final tragedy unveils.

[broken by susie]

only then, will the worlds be saved.

unconnected:

the lord of screens cleaved red by blade.

the flower man, trapped in asylum.

the angel, banished, will finally meet with its desire.

unused:

axe carved by the tortoise's grand hammer.

coldwater fell from the top of the sky. [with an illustration of snowflakes]

for to save the worlds, we last of all say

hymn:

Heaven knows the story that we've born from our hearts

Of the shadows cutting deep and the heroes that save us

Heaven knows the beauty of the soul, and we weep

To the majesty and pray we not forget the tale of DELTARUNE

Lord of the Hammer/Gerson battle dialogue:

Yes, the old tale, based upon the prophecy…

Chapter 1, The March of the Dark King.

The heroes defeat the king and stop the dragon.

Chapter 2, The City of the Shining.

The heroes do battle in chariots to save the Queen.

Chapter 3, The Isles of Northernlight.

The heroes travel among the islands and catch a glimpse of a lost land.

Chapter 4, The Trials of the Holy Hammer.

A great smith gives the heroes a terrible weapon.

Chapter 5, The Field of Pink and Gold.

The vast garden is charred in an inferno of jealousy.

…What happens next? Geheheh! Who knows There was only one more chapter… After that, It all stopped.

The ones who could write the next, the youth, the pen was lying there for them to pick up. To make the next page… they never did.

But you, my dear? I see a story lit up in your eyes… Burnin' bright… Burnin' black… Burnin' up everything. So… how do you think it all ends? No, how do you want it to end?

Before, you said you fancied yourself a hero, didn't ya? Hmmm… That's real interesting. Now, I don't know much about "heroes"… … But i know that whatever ya call 'em, there is someone. Someone who'll never give up trying to do the right thing, no matter what.

But… there is one thing that can overwrite the dark. A white pen, known as hope. Miss! I believe… this is what you hold.

dragon blazers:

-theres an ice palace

-theres an "evil route"

-spells called iceshock, fireshock

-underground level with creepy, repeating music

-a sister gets cursed

-boss called silver drake

-theres a mage

-gerson says susie is the dragon

-theres a secret door in a maze in the ice palace. noelle couldnt find the key to get in.

songs that might or might not have been written by dess:

When the demon heart is crying and the blood is gushing bright, raise up your bat for the burning fight

When your hope is slowly dying and your future's lost its rights, raise up your bat and face the fright. Let's knock 'em dead into the night!

Come follow me into the dark with your heart as the ark which shall guide you the way

Because I'm with you in the dark with your heart as my mark which shall guide you the way

When the light is running low

And the shadows start to grow

And the places that you know

Seem like fantasy

There's a light inside your soul

That’s still shining in the cold

With the truth

The promise in our hearts

Don't forget

I'm with you in the dark

Entry 17, just because:

DARK DARKER YET DARKER

THE DARKNESS KEEPS GROWING

THE SHADOWS CUTTING DEEPER

PHOTON READINGS NEGATIVE

THIS NEXT EXPERIMENT

SEEMS

VERY

VERY

INTERESTING

…

WHAT DO YOU TWO THINK

[moonglide]

(I accidentally clicked "reblog now" so two reblogs. oops. but I just want to say that I saw a theory that since all of susie's weapons are some sort of brush, it would be a paintbrush.

Hmmm… The Girl using a Sword rather an Axe seems like a smoking gun (smoking blade?) that she just can’t be Susie, but… I’ve been thinking about the Symbolism of most of the Swords in the Dark World being Writing implements…

A symbolism the game itself just pointed out.

There’s a potentially fun play here with swords already being the Weapon associated with an RPG’s main protagonists/player characters, and also the symbolism of holding a pencil/pen to show you’re the person with the agency to change the story and master your own fate. So it’s like equating being the “Main Hero” to being able to ‘write your own stories”.

Kris, the actual person holding the ‘Sword’ right now and presented on the surface as the ‘Main Character’ actually has a lot of problems with actual narrative agency. Some obvious (like our possession of them), some less so (being the only ‘Dark Hero’ who always ‘carries out fate’ and never 'faces' it.)

Susie is obviously the one most likely to resist the path laid out before her…

So I’m thinking about the concept of Susie deliberately picking up a Pencil/Sword to make herself the Girl from the Prophecy.

Like, she’ll literally declare her intention to re-write the story by arming herself with a ‘Writing Weapon’ while also deliberately writing herself into the Story with the same action. Making herself into the ‘Chosen One’ instead of accepting the ‘fact’ that she was not supposed to be chosen.

… Of course, that would have to be one hell of a Sword, cause it will also need to satisfy Susie’s aesthetic desire for Big Badass Weapons. Like, the literal reason she doesn’t use Swords right now is that she thinks Kris’ are too puny.

But… maybe she figures out how to craft her own Big-Ass Sword (befitting her status as a kinda-student of Gerson, who was also a Blacksmith) or figures out the mechanics of the Dark World enough to go inside with a Giant Novelty Pencil or something?

[moonglide]

Hmmm… The Girl using a Sword rather an Axe seems like a smoking gun (smoking blade?) that she just can’t be Susie, but… I’ve been thinking about the Symbolism of most of the Swords in the Dark World being Writing implements…

A symbolism the game itself just pointed out.

There’s a potentially fun play here with swords already being the Weapon associated with an RPG’s main protagonists/player characters, and also the symbolism of holding a pencil/pen to show you’re the person with the agency to change the story and master your own fate. So it’s like equating being the “Main Hero” to being able to ‘write your own stories”.

Kris, the actual person holding the ‘Sword’ right now and presented on the surface as the ‘Main Character’ actually has a lot of problems with actual narrative agency. Some obvious (like our possession of them), some less so (being the only ‘Dark Hero’ who always ‘carries out fate’ and never 'faces' it.)

Susie is obviously the one most likely to resist the path laid out before her…

So I’m thinking about the concept of Susie deliberately picking up a Pencil/Sword to make herself the Girl from the Prophecy.

Like, she’ll literally declare her intention to re-write the story by arming herself with a ‘Writing Weapon’ while also deliberately writing herself into the Story with the same action. Making herself into the ‘Chosen One’ instead of accepting the ‘fact’ that she was not supposed to be chosen.

… Of course, that would have to be one hell of a Sword, cause it will also need to satisfy Susie’s aesthetic desire for Big Badass Weapons. Like, the literal reason she doesn’t use Swords right now is that she thinks Kris’ are too puny.

But… maybe she figures out how to craft her own Big-Ass Sword (befitting her status as a kinda-student of Gerson, who was also a Blacksmith) or figures out the mechanics of the Dark World enough to go inside with a Giant Novelty Pencil or something?