#this stupid ass discourse

[taehyungfirst]

i don't think what tae posted was fanservice, its a sweet moment between friends and its nice of tae that he shared this with us.

However, i don't like his timing. The trip was over year ago, why post it now? Its just not very sensitive of him.

Members went to media training, they are professionals and some even admitted to keep a Low Profile to respect the comeback time of others.

Nobody wants everyone of them to be totally silent, but i think its insulting to taes intelligent to say that he didnt know that he would rile up the taekook shippers with his post.

Also its not the first time that tae failed to mention jm's cb, while beeing active and feeding the shippers.

I love tae, but i believe we should still speak up, If somebody does sth that one dislikes.

I should’ve ignored you but this discourse is pissing me off beyond remedy.

He posted that NOW because Type 1 JUST dropped and he ALWAYS posted vcuts, and since Jungkook was there WITH him, he added Jk in his posts because he was reminiscing a cute moment and -again- he was there. If he didn’t post Jk face y’all wouldn’t be here complaining about it I can assure that to you.

“It’s not the first time he failed to mention jm cb” literally this is the first time he didn’t mention Jm, he has been showing support since forever and mostly, he doesn’t OWE you anything. You don’t get to speak and to dictate about someone’s friendship because you don’t know them, and friendship isn’t measured by social media posts. Actually, you always talk about Tae posting for Jimin, but did Jimin post about Tae projects? Where is his post about Wherever u r? Where is his post about Fri(end)s? Where is his post about LWA? Have you ever seen one of tae biased people complaining about that? No, because we don’t care. And you don’t care either you’re just upset Taehyung posted a picture with Jungkook and you don’t know how to cope with that.

[mossy-aro]

sorry but i am SO deeply tired of the 'aphobia isnt real' arguments because they are literally always being conducted in such bad faith. NO there is not specific societal or legal discrimation against aces and aros BECAUSE we are asexual and or aromantic. you cannot hold specifically bigoted beliefs towards a group you do not even know exist. there ARE, however, underlying and deeply pervasive systems and beliefs that actively erase, dehumanise and make life tangibly more difficult for aro and ace people on a social, economic and legal basis. most of this is due to hyperinvisibility, the medicalisation of any nonnormative + misunderstood orientations, the elevation of romance + romantic structures as the most important aspects of interpersonal relationships in society, as well as the nuclear atomisation of the family. among other things. like. amatonormativity has never been ABOUT aromantic people specfically oh my GOD. its simply the underlying social belief that everyone is expected to be in monogamous romantic relationships and that those relationships are expected to the default centre of one's life. its something that affects EVERYONE! but within that it affects aromantic people in a specific and heightened way because of our inability to participate in it in a societally acceptable way. like these are not 'aromantic' or 'asexual' or 'polyamorous' issues specifically. these are theories and terms that originated within feminist + queer sociology studies! its all part of the wider underlying social fabric! aspec people are simply pointing out that we are often affected by these things in unique and often unseen ways.

the idea that we believe people actively 'hate' us for being asexual or aromantic is completely ridiculous. most people i know do not even know the definition of those words! so how could they hate me for it. they could however, for example, hold the pervasive + societally unchallenged belief that not experiencing sexual or romantic attraction is a medical issue or something concerningly abnormal in a human being + something i should get fixed. and its not uncommon that when you DO explain that its simply your orientation to them, they continue to medicalise it and see it as some sort of issue. genuinely so deeply tired of having to explain this to people time and time again when they only want to cherry pick the most ridiculous arguments to respond to and then act as if that's a majority held opinion in the aspec community. like i actually think we are aware of how society views us we're not fucking deluded and stupid. we don't have victim complexes we are just pointing out facts that yall are so desperate to ignore. UGHHHHH

[nyancrimew]

we are now not going to turn this into discourse about a random singular post i retweeted from someone like six months ago again jesus christ, this is so incredibly unrelated and also i already had to talk about that in length literally a month ago while people were sending me death threats. going forward i will once again be blocking anyone bringing up stupid shit they read about me in a DELETED AND RETRACTED callout post.

[nekropsii]

RUFIOH PROPAGANDA: Literally everything he has ever done to and about Damara - cheating on her and lying to her for years, seemingly never standing up for her when Meenah was terrorizing her, still chasing her image as a sex object to this day (particularly Aradiabot, who he says acts “just like the real thing”), and calling her his “psycho ex” behind her back constantly while acting nice to her face.

KANKRI PROPAGANDA: Straight up doesn’t think Misogyny is real and denies its existence outright, calling it a meaningless pseudoscience not worth any concern, discussion, or consideration. Slutshames Porrim directly to her face.

[justrustandstardust]

so fucking tired of people getting up in arms about the satosugu “shippers”. even the whole thing about “well, it’s fine if that’s how you CHOOSE to see it” is infuriating because it’s not shipping if it’s literally just in the text itself. people aren’t “choosing to see them romantically” if they possess the one critical thought to pick up on what the text is so blatantly saying.

i'm so fucking sick of the stupid ass dudebros who deride any discourse about satosugu as "shipping". maybe, just maybe, if there are thousands of people who see something about your favourite characters that you don't, it actually might be true.

to men, who are used to dominating every discursive space, it is unthinkable that people who aren't them might understand their favs better than they do. they dismiss "shipping" and in doing so outwit the analytical skills required to reach its conclusion (which goes far beyond "shipping", a reductive term used to belittle analyses and whims of people who aren't men).

like i'm fucking sorry you must be spoonfed from the tired hand of gege himself. stsg's coding is right there in the text; in openly rejecting it, these dudebros reveal the vapid, surface-level relationship they have with jjk and media in general. people don't merely see stsg as queer/romantic, that's what they are.

it’s actually cute how these men eagerly eat up the content presented to them at face value (powerscaling) and pointedly, aggressively disregard what jjk is actually about. if they shut up for more than one fucking second, they might be able to hear the discourse going on around them and actually learn something about jjk that’s worth knowing.

[alien-grave]

How to perpetuate an even more toxic fandom:

• Abuse copyright strike system to censor and take down any and all fanart with anything nsfw or ‘unsavory’.

• Instead of making a post requesting that people stop sending you ‘icky yucky’ things they don’t like and feel they need to ‘report to you’ and setting a healthy boundary by discouraging that, Encourage your toxic anti fanbase (which is made up of a good portion of Minors) to go out of their way to find these things (allowing minors to justify purposely exposing themselves to those things by entering adult spaces they do not belong in) most of them shouldn’t even be looking at and justify their actions by having them submit it to a ‘team’.

• Perpetuate and encourage people to harass creators of art ‘you don’t like’. Because like it or not that’s what this action inadvertently does. You’ve green-lit people’s policing of content.

—

I understand that some people have a boundary when it comes to their own projects and characters, I understand you as a creator don’t want to see your characters depicted in a specific way. But if the problem is that you don’t want people to keep sending these things to you, this is not the answer to that problem. Those are ‘fans’ overstepping their boundaries, that should be addressed regardless of how you feel for the content they are ‘reporting to you’. If the problem is you don’t want so much misinformation spread around about lore or whatever, make a blog or an official place with all the accurate information you want everyone to know. Don’t like nsfw? That’s fine, you can say how you feel. But to copyright strike fan content is never okay, and frankly there are better ways to handle that. Like it or not you cannot control what fan content is created. So far the only one who’s actually handled this sort of thing well and fairly has been clown. Y’all should really learn from them.

All this will do is make the fandom far worse and far more toxic. It’s not the proshipper making it toxic, despite how desperately all the antis wanna blame them. No hun, it’s you. You’re the ones misconstruing lore systems. You’re the ones going out of your way to harass and send death threats to people. Someone making art you don’t like isn’t toxic, your response to it is what makes fandoms toxic.

In many ways I fear for this creator, because their fanbase is bound to now become even more toxically parasocial than it already is given how antis usually behave.

[cdroloisms]

it's kind of funny i think a little bit when people frame the issues with dsmp fandom as being about high expectations when the story that was told was consistently much more complex and rich and varied than the fandom made it out to be, despite its flaws and hiccups due to the nature of its creation. like nah lets not give em too much credit now its not the creators' fault that the dsmp fandom couldnt identify the themes of the server when they were beat over the head with them

[sir-sillybunny]

transandrophbia deniers are very much a "you've entrenched yourself in so much online discourse that it's deluded your perception of an actual problem" situation lmao. like?? why the hell does it matter if trans men have their own word to describe the unique problems they face as trans men. like who fucking cares lmao. it's not a threat to trans women or transmisogny discussions to allow the word to exist. it literally doesn't matter. only people ive seen upset about it are people who seem to believe men are incapable of experiencing sexism which is a whole post for another time lol

[carlyraejepsans]

god fucking bless this poor girl, I wouldn't wish the scrutiny on anyone, but if her leaking the no-fly list somehow has the ripple effect of collectively snapping thousands of queer discourse addled 14 year olds out of their bullshit i am going to laugh so hard.

[lunaticamic]

“they clearly favour sainz” my man didn’t get the seat for 2025. why would they favour him??? “so he can go and have options for other top teams” (something i read with my fucking eyes on this hellsite) i don’t know how to explain it to you that ferrari doesn’t care😭 it’s not like they owe sainz something. he was faster and he went for the gap. y’all wouldn’t have survived f1 pre 2000

[puhpandas]

rn my view on the fnaf games are "okay they focused on the mimic for way too long and are handling its incorporation in a boring way and made the characters associated with it (cassies dad) also boring and gave me no reason to like or care about the mimic when all it does is sideline everything else but this is just a mimic era they handled shittily and once this mimic era is over with sotm theyll actually get back to the interesting plots bc thats all theyll have left to focus on"

[madelynpryor]

ppl love to preach about how things take time and then freak the fuck out when things actually take time

[dwtdog]

god i hate wider mcytblr

they're in the tags like 'yeah mcytblr is so good except for that one guy we all hate and whose fans we brag about running off there is no drama in mcytblr 😁

[momentomori24]

I don't believe liking immoral and downright evil characters says anything about you as a person, but I think acting like this definitely does.

"The HH fanbase will defend Valentinoto the moon and back" this and "Val is praised by a majority of the fandom" that, except said majority of the fandom fucking HATES that moth and fans have been harassed, had their art scribbled on to "fix" it, repeatedly called "rapist apologists" and "abuse romanticisers", get questioned or accused about condoning him irl, received graphic death/rape threats and are in general mistreated by the fandom. A Val cosplayer was mistreated and had a gun pulled on them IN REAL LIFE not even a year ago. Even the VA got repeatedly asked or assumed to be like the character he plays because "why else would he want to voice a rapist??" and told they deserve for choosing that role (fucking WILD btw). People that like Valentino as a character are the minority of the fandom, and even there NO ONE defends him. We all realise he's a disgusting individual whose actions shouldn't be defended in any capacity. What kinda bullshit lie is that?

I'm also in the Mouthwashing fandom, and it too has a bunch of issues. Infantilising Curly and minimising his actions, making Swansea to be better than he actually is and ignoring that he knew of the SA, people still debating or not realising that Jimmy raped Anya in the first place, shipping Jimmy and Curly (which isn't even a bad thing or a real problem but this person would see it that way), ect. But sure, conveniently don't bring that up. Anything for the Hazbin Hotel hate, right 💀

These next comments especially piss me off (nevermind how they're talking about an abuse survivor which is gross already). This might be a hot take and I don't care if that's the case, but I think people refusing to call Jimmy by name and excluding him from the cast is not show of a "good" fandom, actually. Jimmy has a lot more to him besides being a rapist. Rape culture, toxic masculinity, capitalistic exploitation, misogyny, male dominance-- there's sooo much more to explore and discuss about his character besides him being a rapist. And he's an incredibly disturbing character in a fucking horror game. If you can only refer to him by some stupid nickname (which takes away the seriousness of his character imo), ignore the significance of his role and themes in the story and the rest of his character and reduce him to a single trait that's BAD. That's not a good thing, and in fact, probably makes you worse than the people that do like his character because they can at least separate fiction and reality and not scrap well written disturbing characters for the sake of "comfort" or moral standing (again, in a horror game of all things). People shouldn't feel bad for liking Jimmy because he's a very good character, and ignoring that completely and acting like there aren't people who could like him... kinda sucks?

Moving over, Valentino is not and has NEVER been portrayed in a positive light in the show. I can't wrap my head around people that genuinely think that. Whenever I hear people say that the arguments I always see are "he shouldn't be attractive" and "he's just a cartoon villain" and "he acts silly and quirky even tho he's a rapist" among other things, and I don't think these people realise they're spouting eugenics bullshit and demonstrating that they don't know anything about his character simultaneously. No, Valentino isn't a "positive" portrayal of a rapist because he's attractive (way to tie morality to appearance btw). No, Valentino isn't a positive portrayal of a rapist because he acts goofy and funny and silly. Those traits are intentional and important to his character. Val is the Overlord of lust and depravity, hell's most famous pimp. His beauty is how he lures in unsuspecting sinners, and his personality is how he gains their trust and gets them to sell their souls for him to exploit (notice how Angel signed his soul away willingly). He's supposed to be appealing. He's supposed to be charming. He's entire persona is meant to be disarming. If he were like Jimmy or just a one-note unlikeable guy, his position in the show and his relationships with the characters wouldn't make sense, so he isn't. That doesn't make him a more positive portrayal or anything, it just means he's more fleshed out and written more complex than you want him to be. He's a very real depiction of an abuser, of their two-faced nature and how being attractive and charming to others doesn't make you less of an abusive monster to someone else. For context, I have been abused by someone extremely similar to Val, so his depiction feels very real to me and it's extremely tiring seeing a bunch of assholes who have probably not even seen the show or have been abused act like he's "romanticised" or "unrealistic" or "bad" simply because he was written by Vivziepop (who's ALSO an SA survivor like what is wrong with you 💀).

This is a broader point and not entirely related to this specific case, but we don't give people shit like this over people liking murderers and serial killers-- acting like all a sudden liking a rapist character says something negative about their writing or about the people that like them is INCREDIBLY stupid. People don't talk like this about Alastor and Vox-- who are both VERY despicable people. Both of them are also abusers among other horrible things, but they're not (or at least Alastor isn't) rapists so they're "not as bad". This is a sentiment I see all the time in both the fandom and hatedom whenever Valentino discourse comes back up, and this line of logic that rapists are a unique evil that can't be liked as characters in fiction but murderers and cannibals and serial killers are totally Ok is so dangerous and backwards. Liking evil characters says nothing about you as a person aside from the fact that you're a freak in the fun way. Liking evil characters but then going after others who do as well because you consider their character "too evil" and watering down the crimes of yours to justify liking them says a lot about you tho. Saying that the characters you like says something negative you in general does too.

We seriously need to stop bringing morality into fiction and saying that "normal" people wouldn't like certain immoral characters. We need to stop ostracising people for their "problematic" ships, proudly brag about ostracising them and justify it by calling them "weirdos". We need to stop saying villains are "badly written" because they're not written how YOU want them to be written, regardless of whether or not that opinion is valid (which in this case it isn't). We need to stop putting fandoms in some weird competition with each other about how characters are written and spit on people who actually enjoy them, are comforted by them or felt seen by them (gestures at the whole Angel dust situation barely a week ago). And honestly we need to stop giving attention to people like this, who spread a false narrative and kick others down for being fans of a media they don't like or know squat about for whatever reason. Who spread lies about the media or fandom in question in way that's blatantly in bad faith.

This crappy post is sitting a 17k while I'm typing this. The way people can just say ANYTHING about Hazbin Hotel and its fandom-- doesn't matter if it's valid or true or if they watched the show or know anything about the fandom at all, it just has to be negative-- and others will eat it up no questions asked needs to be studied at this point. We saw that in the months the show first aired. We saw that with the Angel Dust video. We're seeing this again here. I don't think we should be harassing anybody over fiction and in general (and needless to say don't harass any of these people) but calling out bad actors who pull shit like this more often and making it uncool to shittalk Hazbin Hotel and its fandom (and any fandom from unapologetically dark media where the people deal with enough bullshit already) for no reason and in bad faith is a change I'd be down with. Like, wash your mouth of its name and disappear into the shadow realm, goddamnit.

[loseractivities]

Why do you give a fuck if people ship Stu and Sidney. Who even cares. It's not that serious.

i hate straight people!!!! you all should burn!!!!! tumblr isnt the place for people of your kind!!!!! gahhhh!!!👿👿🔥🔥

[knifearo]

i'll give a fair amount of people the benefit of the doubt but those bitches making polls are not part of that. idk if it were me and i cared about aspec people at all i simply would not publish an ask bringing back discourse that is literally only going to cause issues for aspec people and make spaces less hospitable for them <3