#this is gonna be my biggest discourse post

[an-spideog]

Calling Irish "Gaelic" is fine actually

I used to think it was just a thing that uninformed Americans did, but I was wrong, so let's talk about it.

There are Irish people (notably, native Irish speakers) who call it "Gaelic", when speaking English. (All video clips are timestamped, but it seems like timestamps don't work on mobile? So I'll write them as well) 8:27

4:36

In the name for the language in Irish varies across the dialects, but in Donegal, it's usually said as "Gaeilic"*, as you can hear here. (Bhí an Ghaeilic thar timpeall achan áit)

0:32

Or in the recording here from teanglann.ie:

It's fine to call it "Irish" as well, or "Irish Gaelic", but there's nothing wrong with just saying "Gaelic".

Notes

*I spelt it as Gaeilic for the sake of showing the pronunciation here, but really this comes from Gaeilg with the final consonant being devoiced in a similar way to how you see with Pádraig -> Pádraic

Some people will argue that you shouldn't call it "Gaelic" because there are several Gaelic languages, and it lacks specificity. It's true that it lacks specificity, but that is also how they're spoken about in the Gaelic languages themselves, e.g. "Gaeilge na hÉireann, Gaeilge na hAlban, Gaeilge Mhanann" (The Gaelic of Ireland, The Gaelic of Scotland, the Gaelic of Man) in Irish. There was, and still is to some degree, mutual intelligibility between these languages/dialects and it should be remembered that the difference between language and dialect is largely political.

[good-beanswrites]

I think it's So Funny that Fuuta canonically loves engaging in twitter discourse, has played fantasy/online games (and likely has touched on anime to some degree), and his whole shtick is he likes dishing out judgements on others from the comfort of his own home --

He would have fucking loved the Milgram Project...

[axe-of-ender]

dawg the tumblr year in review for this account is so fucking sad LMAOO

[garoujo]

saetoru is talking abt you on her private blog (@/clorindes) yuckkkkk

CW BULLYING, LITERALLY IMMATURE HIGH SCHOOL DRAMA, SUB POSTING.

hi nonnie, thank you for letting me know! since i’m leaving this blog & this platform for the foreseeable future i figured i might aswell get a few things off of my chest before i go. i apologise in advance for the vibes this post will probably bring, the discourse & the posts that will ofcourse follow, but i honestly i am not the first person to be targeted by this creator and i’m sure i won’t be the last considering the amount of creators that have been bullied off of this app by them.

first off i’ve had multiple blogs that would be considered bigger blogs such as @/hvnlydmn, @/atsymu + now this blog which is the biggest of all 3. i think there’s a sort of unspoken responsibility that comes with being a bigger blog which i know is no fun but it’s also because it can be super harmful on a site like this, when people weaponise their following.

on that note i’ll start this post by saying that i’ve known tee for probably around 3/4 years, maybe? we were mutuals on hvnlydmn & atsymu and we continued to talk on discord even when i was off of tumblr. i will honestly admit to this day i have never had a negative interaction with tee to my face and she was genuinely supportive of me during any discourse i was involved in. i am not some angel, i’ve had my fair share of crap on this app (of my own doing) but this post is not meant to come across like “oh she doesn’t like me so i’m calling her out” no. im sorry if this doesn’t line up with my brand and my ‘victim complex’ but i’m not gonna lie down and let someone on a power trip on a hobby app drag me through the mud.

first off i had began to get some off vibes from tee when i had started writing on garoujo, notably when i’d just hit my first milestone which was probably around 1k. during this i had decided to move my instagram theme from my main blog to my writing blog.

i’d noticed tee subposting (on main and on her personal blog which i followed at the time) about someone basically using the same theme as her, which after then clicking onto her blog i realised was an instagram theme. i didn’t think much of it, again me & tee were friends and she hadn’t came to me directly so ignored it. i was still a new blog and trying to solidly an aesthetic (before the beige lol) so i changed my theme / masterlists / layouts a lot.

a few more sub posts later i decided to message tee about it because with every thing i’d change / post on my blog, there always seemed to be another post. so i messaged her and got this response in: (i’ve blurred out my irl name btw) open up pics for convo!

so i let it slide, kept posting & that was that. probably a few days / a week later, tee had soft blocked me which then eventually led to me being hard blocked. i was upset ofcourse because i genuinely considered tee a good friend but i’ve always been a big advocate in controlling your space.

this was when, one of our mutuals in common (the first of many may i add) approached me on discord to say that just like now, i was being ripped to shreds on tee’s personal blog:

again i was notably upset about this because i was being accused of not only copying her theme but also her writing & masterlists, we did have a lot of mutuals in common so it was also upsetting knowing they would all be seeing these posts aswell. i allowed myself one sub post about “creating a narrative” because i was particularly frustrated but tee then also subposted about this, even though she had me blocked?

i would also like to say regarding our mutuals in common that this was not the first or last mutual to approach me regarding tee. i’ve had multiple people tell me that “they’re only mutuals with her because it would be more damaging not to be” “it’s easier to be on her side”. also i am not saying this is okay but i’ve had multiple of her current mutuals send me not only her posts, but screenshots of her private, personal instagram & also tell me about how all of them and their friends had a running joke / theory that tee made up her boyfriend (ex-boyfriend?) for attention.

regarding the accusations from tee i’d like to first comment on the instagram themes, again i had done an instagram theme on my main blog but it seemed to only be an issue when it was on my writing blog that was gaining traction. if the timing was off and it seemed like i copied her, i genuinely have nothing to say except it’s not the case— it’s instagram (which tee already admits she doesn’t own above) also the hanma writing? i’m still not 100% sure which drabbles she was referring to but i can only assume that 1. is when i posted a drabble about hanma fucking you outside of his subordinates house — this was a almost completely word by word rewrite of a suna drabble i done on my old blog @/atsymu i literally just changed the concept to fit tokyo revengers themes. i can post screenshots of this suna drabble also from my google docs dated February when i deactivated. the other one may have been some basic concept about him fucking you against the window.

she also mentions in the very first recent screenshot at the beginning of this post that i have apparently stolen concepts of fics / posts from her mutuals. what i want to say regarding this is, do you believe that i would have made it this far on stolen work? i don’t know any of the mutuals she’s referring to apart from 1 which i’ll get into. but every single accusation i’ve ever received has always come from someone associated or in contact with tee, she has always been at the root of it all but i have yet to receive a single anon or ask about me copying or taking inspiration from anyone’s work.

i know there was apparently a blog and an ex mutual of mine, who i had a lot of respect & time for who was under the impression i’d stolen their concept for this gojo fic. the whole premise of this fic is honestly not uncommon considering how many times people losing control of their techniques / powers / quirks during orgasm has been done in fanfiction. this concept was completely my own, i had originally posted shitposts about him losing control of his technique & also him putting you into a mating press / breeding before i’d decided to smoosh them together into a fic. we all read from the same workbook, we all have the same material to work off of — two people in a fanbase of THOUSANDS having a similar idea is not unheard of.

now onto the masterlist banners. the screenshot on the far left are the comparison photos that tee made herself— i’m sure you’ll be able to see them in better quality when she makes her own post about it; because obviously that’s going to come. first off i will say, i will admit i took inspiration from her official art masterlist banners — i thought hers looked good and i needed a masterlist so i used official art. fair game there although i only kept them for a few days before i changed again.

but onto the grey masterlist banners, i can honestly say i did not even know tee had this masterlist, also the only comparison i myself see is the colour. the only reason i chose grey was because i had started to use a grey / white overlay on my manga panels for my layout (as you can see far right), and as you know— i’ve always kept my colour scheme pretty consistent. on that note, regarding the actual layout of the masterlists— i’ve added screenshots from atsymu (that i could find due to it being deactivated) that shows the layout of my old masterlists, which was what i took inspiration from for my current. although the title font for each heading like headcanons is different, i had used the sort of old style, basic font that everyone uses before i had deactivated so it would match my fic headers i just don’t have photos obviously.

anyway on the back of this there was then discourse over me apparently copying tee’s kinktober masterlist, which again was not the case. but again due to tee’s following i had received multiple death threats into my asks the morning after i posted mine. as far as i was aware, the only similarities were the fact we both used gifs in our headers & the layout listing thirsts, hcs & fics (which is very common during kinktober but i admitted below i could see that similarity). unfortunately during all of this discourse was when ffflowers, my hate blog also came into the mix which then lead to tee reaching out to me in dm’s from her old blog.

the interaction between me & tee was pretty good, again she was nothing but nice to me directly despite the way she obviously spoke about me in private above. but as you can see below, tee herself told me that basically most of the similarities all made above were brushed off as basic. we spoke about the ig themes & i apologised, saying i could understand where she was coming from and that was that. i unblocked her & she unblocked me so i could reblog her post, it’s been that way since.

it is not my place to comment on other people’s experiences on this app but i would need more than 2 hands to list the amount of people that i’m sure have had similar if not worse experiences with tee. i know i have had multiple mutuals who have been bullied off of this platform & had their safe space ripped from them for little things such as: liking a character that this group selfship with, tee and her friends not liking their characterisation. they’ve even went as far as to go through other larger creators notes to check for minors so they can make excuses as to why they’re thriving.

i also know of a blog who was ‘blacklisted’ from tee & her mutuals as they self shipped with arataki itto at the time, one of tee’s friends also did, so they blacklisted this creator and had all of their mutuals block them for this which then in turn drove this creator off the app. there has been other notably bitchy things that i’ve heard but i have no receipts for therefore i don’t see any relevance in starting rumours.

i would also like to say i know plagiarism is a horrible thing, we have all been through it— myself included but it’s got to the point where being accused of copying tee has become a canon event. notably, bigger platforms have been ruined and driven off of this app for little things such as mdni dividers, similar colours schemes etc. and it’s the reason i’m also leaving.

i will say i have met some amazing people through my discourse with tee, notably people who have been in similar situations and i also apologise to any mutuals who we still have in common who are now sort of stuck inbetween. no hard feelings. although to tee: id be careful of the people you trust because it seems the loyalties they have to you are not as sincere as you may believe. you can also go to her personal & read the other things she was saying about me like how she was always so ? at how many people seemed to like me.

so that’s all i have to say, i’m sure dash will get a few responses from this but i’ll be logging out & turning off asks because honestly? couldnt care less. the only thing i’d change about my experience on this app would be i wish i’d blocked tee sooner.

i’d say have a nice day, but instead, have the day you deserve.

— emmie :)

[to-the-stars8]

Can someone genuinely answer this ever lingering question as to why DC has such beef with Jason Todd?

They butcher his character and relationships, and for what? There’s so much fucking POTENTIAL not only with his character but with his story! There’s a way to actually write discourse in a relationship without making it so damn abusive. Maybe I’m missing something in the story or just in general, but it’s just so fucking irritating when it could be good.

You have a nice, good boy who only wants to help despite given the short hand in life who is then given a loving father who just so happens to be Batman. That boy is then murdered by Batman’s biggest enemy (don’t even get me started on the fucking Joker who essentially has become idolized in the worst ways by DC writers and directors) still trying to do the right thing despite being fucked over by the very person he so desperately wanted love from. Then, you have that same boy who’s just a little bit older, hurting and angry— acting out in every way he can against the man who loves him but couldn’t see past his own weaknesses. And what do DC writers do instead of making this complicated, intriguing and character growing relationship into something that’s not as fucking dumb and slightly out of character for Batman? They fuck him up.

It’s an extreme to say this, I know. And this isn’t against all DC writers, but you can’t deny a lie when it’s a pattern. It’s a cut and dry story that practically writes itself. You have a little boy who is so full of hope is growing along with the main character of the story (which, in my own personal opinion, Batman has Robin not as a soldiers—and omfg does that damn phrase make me violent—but as a potential, mutual factor of character growth) , who then gets a bit too cocky and distracted by his own hubris and need for love, to a hurt antagonist that goes against the man who he once called father. Like it’s too easy to not fuck this up, and yet DC seems to manages to do this every single time.

It’s almost like they want to portray Batman and Bruce Wayne as a man who is made “tougher” by his trauma (which has some patriarchal undertones if you catch my drift) instead of growing. Batman can grow. He can love. There’s one post that I’ve seen on Tumblr how Batman/Bruce does this whole vigilante thing out of love.

Which is why I don’t get why DC uses Bruce as a tool to hurt Jason when it isn’t really consistent. He loved Jason, and this is backed up by a lot of older and a few current issues. Don’t get me wrong, I get that their relationship post-UTRH is gonna be FUCKED. Yet, even the writing in that I can’t really agree with. KILLING (attempting to kill really) your son who had been dead for years, that you loved so much, and is acting out because YOU? Doesn’t make much sense, but, again, maybe I’m looking at this through a foggy lens.

This wasn’t meant to be a long post, but it’s just been on my mind and perhaps I could use another perspective. So, again, what’s DC’s deal with Jason and Bruce’s relationship, and Jason’s character as a whole?

[stupditysholy]

I have to get this off my chest because the amount of Curly love on tik tok actually stresses me out and I’ll tell you why:

So to my understanding having experienced the game multiple times, Curly absolutely fails to advocate for/help Anya. She hides the gun to keep it away from Jim because Curly will not allow her to protect herself. He straight up calls her crazy to her face, too: “You never had to get psych evals like the rest of us. I should’ve known” or something along those lines. When Curly confronts Jim before Jim crashes the ship, he doesn’t say ANYTHING in defense of Anya, instead consoling Jim that they would figure it out, and he’d been in rough spots before.

For all intents and purposes, Curly does not see that Jim has done something inexcusable, and rather he has made a series of mistakes. He does not for one single moment consider how Anya’s life has been permanently altered, how her autonomy has been entirely stolen from her.

Until he experiences it himself.

Curly being reduced to a mostly immobile spring sausage is his way of experiencing the pain he allowed to be inflicted upon Anya, full stop. Even more ironic? Anya can’t bare to give him his pain killers, so he is left completely at Jim’s mercy, a fun-house mirror of how Curly could not bare to hold his friend accountable, and therefore left Anya at Jim’s mercy pre-crash.

Curly only becomes Jim’s victim because he allows Anya’s victimization to go on unchecked. He thought he was exempt from Jim’s abuse, and that is his biggest mistake.

Also, I have to say the idea that Curly get’s rescued and lives happily ever after does the narrative no justice. In fact, it completely undermines Jim’s entire character arc. Curly living happily ever after would, in some sense, redeem a little of Jim’s character—redemption he did not remotely earn because he did NOT take responsibility. At all.

Jim putting Curly in the pod at the end is no act of mercy. It’s actually the worst and most selfish thing he could have done. It’s the exact freaking opposite of taking responsibility. When he has his big talk with Polle before the very end, he is spouting complete and utter bullshit. Why?

The crash and Curly are NOT the things he is supposed to be taking responsibility for. The thing he is supposed to be taking responsibility for is ANYA’S TORMENT. That is the thing which started all of this, which lead to the crash, which fried Curly. That is the inciting incident.

That’s the freaking irony!

Anya get’s completely and utterly forgotten in this moment. In my opinion, this is why Polle says:

If all of that is true… why are you still so concerned with him?

Because right before that, Jim is about to say “Our worst moments don’t make us monsters.”

And Polle knows, then, in that moment, that when Jim thinks of his worst moments, he thinks of the accident, what happened to Curly, rather than the immeasurable pain he inflicted on Anya PURPOSEFULLY. Jim completely fucking ignores his worst moment, and that DOES make him a monster.

So when Jim puts Curly in that pod, not only is he righting the WRONG wrong, but he is actively choosing to believe this is what it means to take responsibility. He is making his amends to a man he accidentally hurt rather than the person who suffered the most at his hand.

It’s also pretty evil of Jim to put him in there because he knows: a good captain goes down with his ship. He makes Curly out to be a selfish and pitiful. He may even be setting him up for failure depending on how the authorities reason out what happened.

I just think at the end of the day Jim is the villian of the story, and Curly is a freaking bystander. Obviously post-crash this is inevitable, but that’s almost funny—not gonna do anything to stop him, Curly? Guess what, now you don’t even have a freaking choice.

Anyway please stop glazing the spaghetti man you can love his complexity but he is not a good guy or uwu cutie pie. He sucks. Straight up.

Feel free to start discourse in the comments I’m okay with being wrong about him I guess I just don’t think I am.

[venusin-aries]

I really need to get this off my chest but the way people are trying to compare the sexual desire Az has for Elain to the way he is with Gwyn? It’s borderline ignorance of sexual assault. 

Azriel respects Gwyn. He admires her. 

He also witnessed the aftermath of her rape. 

Of course he’s not going to sexualize her. I imagine he won’t ALLOW himself to think like that about her just yet and that’ll be an obstacle they’ll have to overcome.

Would you want a man you only just re-met all over you after he saw the aftermath of your rape? Because if so, THAT would be romanticizing her sexual assault.

That’s why, if anything, I’m so fucking glad the bond hasn’t seemingly snapped for him. 

If they are mates (which most of us think they are) any desire he feels for her will be stronger than what he feels for Elain just like any desire Elain feels for Lucien will be stronger than what she feels for Azriel. Those are FACTS. Because Elain and Lucien are CONFIRMED MATES. 

Some of y’all are so weird and HARMFUL it’s crazy. And I’m not someone who is super sensitive about assault, fictional or real, mine or others, you guys just CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA HOW DESIRE AFTER ASSAULT IS HANDLED FOR BOTH PARTIES INVOLVED IN THE CONSENSUAL ACTIVITY. And it shows. I trust Sarah to do thorough research about it before publishing anything.

Az and Elain’s desire for each other will pass. 

Her bond with Lucien will not. 

Azriel is likely going to have his own mate who he’ll go fucking feral for and his and Elain’s bonus chapter moment will look like child’s play. Elain and Lucien’s tension WILL snap eventually and I KNOW they will be the biggest Freaks (affectionate and spicy meaning) of the series.

And I’m gonna remember every one of you fucking weirdos who were weird about Azriel’s seemingly lack of desire for Gwyn (though he definitely starts to seem intrigued in acosf AFTER his and Elain’s bonus chapter moment) and how some of y’all hold her assault against her. 

It’s not just one person who is stating this shit either so it’s not about anyone specifically. Yes, bloggers have been combative about it but anons are even worse and I’m Tired Of It.

This is NOT AN INVITATION FOR DISCOURSE. If you think my being sick of the way people are so stupid about assault is problematic, you’re the fucking problem, baby. Don’t even try to start shit with me because I’m tired of people saying the most off the cuff shit about Gwyn and then playing the victim so if you have a fucking problem go vague post about me or something cause I ain’t going to read it any more.

and whaaaaatever you do, do not reblog this with an argument against Gwynriel or Elucien for e/riel. I will lose my damn shit and I WILL fucking block you.

also, and just an unnecessary tidbit for you all, my first partner after I experienced assault told me nothing satisfied him more than satisfying me and making me feel safe after being hurt so badly. Compete with that.

[deathdetermineslife]

how do you manage to get any followers or friends in the selfshipping community? is it just luck?

for months i’ve been trying to interact with others and follow people, engaging with stuff like ask games and hosting reblog games, but when i try to share any artwork or i reblog an ask game myself, its radio silence. like even in small discords i get ignored so bad

i don’t say this at all to be guilt tripping /gen, it’s genuine curiosity at how this stuff even works. like am i doing something wrong or is the community just like this?

here is my comprehensive and lame guide on How To Get Selfship Followers

step 1 - posting

so a lot of my posts are either kinda general or fun. folks I will not lie to you. these are all stupid shit that come to my mind on a day to day basis. for example, today, I thought, "man I'm such a loser I'm not in college like all my friends r" and then I was like "omg wait. i could make a post out of this" so I did that.

you also kinda gotta be conistent. so i try to post at least *something* everyday. even if its a reblog, tho, I don't reblog a lot of things other than ask games.

another thing with posting is that i do try to make a lot of community based content. so idk if yall remember but in the beginning of my account, I did the "things you can do if you have xyz f/o". i did like,,, I think almost 100 of those ?????? it was a lot. then I started making templates and I made some ask games and ofc I post a lot of general like,,, imagine stuff. oh also polls. people seem to enjoy polls.

step 2 - be positive

this is the big thing. as most of yall (hopefully) know, I do not fw proshippers !! but I don't talk about discourse unless its directly brought up. not only this, I put a big focus on just,,, being nice idk. like id like to think I'm a pretty down to earth person.

if you make a template and people tag you in it, say something nice! reply to peoples art, send in asks, things like that. i try to do my part in being nice. i also just like hearing about peoples selfships.

when people post promos and have the little "rb to be moots", reblog! when you come across someone having a bad day, maybe they made a vent or something, reply with a simple "I hope you feel better <3" or "your f/o loves you <3". things like that, ya know?

step 3 - have fun

genuinely. i post as much as i do because I like it. i didn't go into this thinking "oh... yea... I'm gonna get selfship famous..." like no I just wanna ramble somewhere bc none of my close irls r selfshippers.

you wont get popular or get followers because you grind out posts. literally one of my biggest posts on this account I wrote while I was half asleep one night and wanted to test out queuing on my account.

and in that regard, it is partially luck. i don't control what posts people do and don't like. sometimes I write up imagines and no one sees them. sometimes I write up a post saying "lol go kiss your fake boyfriend ooo smoochie smoochie" and that does numbers

step 4 - interaction

im only in two servers. one server (which was the first public server I think I ever joined ???? i could be wrong tho,,, bad memory blehg) that I don't own and then my own 18+ server. i don't think being in servers does anything,,, considering I'm only in one that isn't mine. i think its more like ,,, sticking to one or two places ?? like just being consistently in an area you're comfortable in.

i guess you gotta just find the right people ??? and like I mentioned, be friendly, but ya know. also I guess tags too? idk if you look at any of my regular posts I have 8 million tags on them. idk if that actually does anything or not because its kinda hit or miss sometimes.

i was gonna say something else but i forgot. see look listen I dunno how I got here but this is what I do ,,,, effectively nothing. also with the being kind thing, maybe this is how I am bc I'm pagan but I think that if you expect kindness back you wont get anything. sometimes its just nice to be nice. eventually you gain a reputation for being a nice person. you kinda have to not want that tho? like I don't see myself as particularly like ,,, super kind ,,,??? i just do what feels right.

step 5 - uhhhh idk im just rambling now

i guess i also went into this kinda like. damn sometimes this community is a cesspool of absolute meanie pants. i don't wanna be a Meanie Pants and just post my thoughts and the things I think about. i guess how I see it too is, I kinda like ? idk I think all these things anyways why not post them? kinda feels like a waste not to.

also ive been told my posts are pretty recognizable bc of how I format them ? my dividers and such. also tagging all of my imagines and stuff with my 🥀📜 emojis. i guess that helps too? because that's how I recognize certain accounts. "like oh there's them I recognize their dividers and their tags".

also you kinda gotta like,,, not let hate get to you. like have fun with it? i know that's hard, but, that's what you gotta do. when I get printer ink (bc. a hoe does NOT like buying printer ink) im printing out that fucking 8 mile long hate message I got sent. but also that's just the kinda person I am. like people being a dick and stealing my posts and telling me to swallow a glock 9mm doesn't upset me, im more like,, confused more than anything because never in my life have I ever sent hate to anyone. also I have had this "I do not care because you're some loser on the internet and you being an ass wipe is no where near as bad as the shit people have done to me irl" attitude.

TLDR; i dont think youre doing anything wrong because I don't exactly know what I'm doing right. i just... do... and sometimes, "just doing" is enough. maybe its luck, maybe I've been blessed by the tumblr algorithm and I've somehow figured it out, or maybe the community is just genuinely that bad and they pick favorites. maybe its all of the above! who knows. i try not to worry about it. i think at the end of the day, as long as you're having fun posting about your f/os and selfshipping, that's what matters.

alright thats all see ya. if you have any more questions feel free to ask however I fear I cannot answer them </3

[musicalmoritz]

TikTok shipping discourse is giving me a headache

So I’ve been super excited abt the recent revival of the Gravity Falls fandom because that show was a large part of my childhood. My sister and I watched it as it was coming out, I still vividly remember watching the first episode with her when it aired. It was one of my first big fandoms so I have a lot of fond memories with it (and some not-so-fond, my sister and I would always joke abt how we were just like the Pines twins so certain areas of the internet were…well, awkward to say the least)

Anyways super happy that the fandom is back but why am I seeing so much beef between Dipcifica and Mabcifica shippers??? I don’t remember there being this much discourse before, most people shipped Bill//Dip so that was the biggest rival to Dipcifica I recall seeing at the time, besides Wen//Dip. Oh and also. The other one. But usually ppl were pretty chill abt Mabcifica bcuz it went along well with the mega popular mlm pairing so like,,,even if ppl didn’t care abt them, they were content with that as a way to keep Pacifica out of the picture. There were the typical homophobes ofc but I don’t remember ppl going out of their way to hate on Mabcifica back when I was really into the fandom

This might come as a shock, but I was always Team Dipcifica. It was one of those ships I absolutely fell in love with, I read fics of them on FanFiction.Net and watched all the amvs and cosplays. I liked the idea of Dipper being the guy Pacifica could sort of run away with after escaping her toxic family because I loved her character sm and wanted good things for her. And, well, I related to Dipper a lot so there might have been some subconscious projecting going on there

So yeah, big time Dipcifica girlie but as we all know I’m also a massive multishipper and Femslash Enthusiast™️. It took me awhile to come around to Mabcifica bcuz as I was watching the show I was working through a lot of internalized homophobia, but nowadays I ship them nearly equally to Dipcifica. They are both interesting ships in their own rights with their own appeals. Pacifica was always a character in Mabel’s storylines so people shipping them romantically makes sense to me. I actually look at Mabcifica content more frequently than Dipcifica content now bcuz my main thing is sapphic ships. But if you were to ask me to pick one, I would still probably say Dipcifica

Alright now onto the current discourse. I keep seeing posts on TikTok of Dipcifica shippers explaining why they hate Mabcifica, or bashing the ship in their own edits. I also see a constant flood of comments on Mabcifica posts of ppl hating on the ship and saying Dipcifica is better. My dudes, what happened to “ship and let ship”?? Seeing all of this at the same time I’m seeing a flood of posts saying that ships don’t have to be canon or even make sense, and that ppl should let fandoms have fun, is crazy. And yes I’m gonna pull this card, it’s a little odd for people to specifically be targeting the most popular wlw ship in the fandom. “It’s toxic” mf you ship BILL//FORD

Hate whatever ships you want!! No one is forcing you to like Mabcifica. If they are then block them. But omg I thought we were trying to leave needless ship hate in the past. The ships can coexist, believe me I’m overjoyed that Dipcifica has so many canon implications but ppl are still well within their right to ship Mabcifica

I don’t even care that much abt Bill//Ford (love it and fully support it, have supported it since middle school, but I’m more of a Fidd//author girlie) but I’m glad that’s the fandom’s main focus rn, I couldn’t take it if the ONLY thing the shippers were yapping abt was which Pines sibling Pacifica should hold hands with. Another life saved by toxic yaoi

Mabcifica shippers get behind me

[the-s1lly-corner]

Can you write the TADC cast with a male ballet dancer reader? The reader experiences gender dysphoria 24/7 because they look very feminine and all that.

TADC cast x male!ballet dancer!reader w/ dysphoria

back to finishing up the current line up of requests!! reminder that im only doing requests that have been sent in prior to them being closed! any requests that are sent in while theyre still closed will not be taken and will be deleted so i can keep track of what was sent before closing; its nothing against any of yall and you guys can resend your stuff when they are reopened (i will make it very obvious when they are so dw!!) on a different note i could have sworn i did a cast request with a reader who does ballet; but i guess it was only for jax and i was confusing the group request for the ballora type! reader from this morning huh anyways!! i hope you enjoy this anon! quick warning that i know literally nothing about ballet so im

CAINE:

i think he enjoys a bunch of art forms; from music stuff to dance stuff to painting stuff, this man has taste. i think he would give you a bunch of outfits for you to wear and swap around that fits your aesthetic. bro would give you a whole walk in closet. as for dysphoria, i think he would do a similar thing with jax and reinforce how masculine you are to him, usually through affirmations, but he also shows it through just being there for you, bro is not only your number one fan but hes also your biggest supporter

POMNI:

i am yet again stumped on what to put in for pomni, since i think pomni is. bad at comforting people. very awkward, do not go to her for advice she will fumble so bad. now its not like shes not trying, but i think she would be all over the place trying to cover everything that could possibly help you; perhaps you two ultimately settle on cuddling one another... if this werent the digital world you two would probably put on a movie to take your mind off of it. as for her thoughts on ballet! i think she would find it neat, similar to jax she would have a form of respect for it!

RAGATHA:

she thinks it looks pretty, the dancing! she wouldnt know all the history or more in depth parts of it but she would watch you practice if you allowed her too... i think she would make you a binder, if your digital body causes any gender dysphoria for you.. though now that i type this i recall it being said that the characters clothing being stuck to their body.. so maybe she would just make you clothing thats more masculine as well? im not sure on this one!

JAX:

doing jax first since he already got a similar post and i can use it as a basis; ive said this in that post as well as the ballora one but i think he would at least appreciate the dedication and hard work that goes into ballet... to like, fully commit to something like that impresses him you know? as for dysphoria, i think he would make it a point to call you more masculine terms. hes gonna be trying his best to try to help you with your dysphoria in the way that best helps you. lays off on his teasing on days where its worse

KINGER:

i am yet again distraught that i do not have many ideas for kinger this time, which is sad because hes my favorite character and i can relate so hard to the dysphoria thing... thinks.. probably throws all of his knowledge at you. i mean hes been in the circus for a while, hes probably seen at least a few people come and go; and sure what are the odds that he has some experience helping someone fight through their dysphoria... a boy can dream! takes you to his pillow fort and lets you stay for as long as you want

probably sits and watches you dance on a makeshift pillow thrown. claps when you're done, probably throws roses... i think caine would throw roses too except he would throw way more simply because he can literally. manifest as many as he wants

ZOOBLE:

i dont usually like sharing my lgbt hcs about characters out of fear that it would be met with discourse but if i recall correctly zooble doesnt really have a gender/a set one (if im wrong correct me!) so they understand the dysphoria thing; i think they would offer to let you hang out in your room and vent your feelings out. probably tries to give advice on how to feel better in general if you want advice, but if you want comfort theyre gonna do your best to give it to you. i dont think zooble would have much of an opinion on ballet; neither negative or positive, simply knowing thats its an art form! supports you if it makes you happy, though!

GANGLE:

while not the same thing, i like to think gangle used to do ribbon dancing in the real world... because... ribbon girl. see look im so so creative

but also i think it looks pretty

so you guys can bond over your hobbies! you might have to pry gangle to open up and talk about her interest in it, assuming she picks it up again in the digital world! as for dysphoria, i think gangle would be like zooble in terms of lending you some support; offers to help distract you if you dont want to tackle the issue at that point in time. i dont know about you, but sometimes i just, dont want to deal with my own dysphoria, but perhaps thats just a me thing

[the-conversation-pod]

Summer 2024 Lagniappe (A Minisode)

AND WE'RE BACK!

Summer didn’t give us a lot to say, but we ALWAYS got something to say. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk a highlight of the season, Twig reports from the field, and we award summer’s Girl Who Tried.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Introduction 00:02:21 - Twig’s Dispatch 00:14:24 - Spotlight: Tadaima, Okaeri 00:20:34 - Girl, You Tried 00:27:08 - Celebrating 50 Episodes

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 Introduction and Summer Season Recap

Ben

And we're back. We have reached the end of the summer season. It is hot as hell and hurricane season is active, but we at least still have our shows to watch.

Shan

Wow, what a way to set the mood.

NiNi

That is [laughs] one way to start, for sure. [NiNi and Shan laugh]

Ben

Girl, I’m stressed! [laughs]

NiNi

I feel you. I feel you. I feel you. We are here. The summer has been… it's been a lot. 

Let's just dive right into what we came here to discuss. Shan is here. Say hi, Shan. 

Shan

Hi! 

NiNi

We're going to talk a few things that we didn't talk through this season. Twig’s gonna come in and leave us her dispatch, and then we're gonna round it up and award the Girl, You Tried. There are a lot of girls who tried this season. [laughs]

00:02:20 Twig’s Dispatch

DISPATCH! Thank you for having me back. [music]

While folks were lamenting having nothing to watch this quarter, I was as busy as ever!

In the skip section: Sadly, Korea really dominated this category last season, starting with Blossom Campus. Honestly, this was the biggest disappointment this season for me. This was my–the Korean independent team Strongberry, who I normally love—they released a full length Kdrama that, I don’t understand how it went so wrong. The story is about a university transfer student who works at the library and ends up in a few interactions with a taekwondo major and they fall for each other. It was boring, the story didn’t really flow, the chemistry was flat.The only good thing I can say for it is that when they do kiss, they kiss well. But it was not worth watching to get there.This was the least queer Strongberry has ever felt, and to add insult to injury it ends on a cliffhanger. This is a pass from me, friends. 

Love is Like a Cat. Mew of the newly public MewTul relationship stars in this hybrid Thai/Korean production that did not manage to retain the good qualities of either country. It is bad. And not even in a fun way. The premise is a famous Thai actor is blackmailed into doing a Korean reality series in which he has to work in a dog cafe, despite being afraid of dogs. That sounds like it would be cute and fun, and somehow it was neither. Poor acting, cinematography, chemistry, story, everything was mid. Also, content warning for animal death—way to alienate your target audience. 

Gray Shelter was a Korean short series that barely felt like BL? Honestly, it was trying to walk a trauma narrative and BL line and I don’t think it did that successfully. The romance felt rushed and the trauma part felt like it was being sad for the sake of sad rather than having anything to actually say about trauma. Also had another cliffhanger ending. Not my fav.

Moving away from Korea, Lady Boy Friends is a show that has a high barrier to enjoyment, so judge for yourself. It’s a remake from 2015 and the premise is an ensemble show in an all boys high school in which a good percentage of the cast are actually trans girls in an all boys school. There is a lot of infighting amongst the trans women, they are extremely catty and mean and clique-y to each other. That part I honestly found kind of fun, and I did enjoy them banding together against a common enemy. Unfortunately that common enemy is another trans girl who is looked down on for transitioning “late” which calls her authenticity into question. This show also has sexual assault played as comedy which is honestly the main reason why it’s in this section; there was also a gay couple who got the bulk of the focus in the last few episodes, and while that storyline will likely be the most appealing to this audience, I didn’t particularly like that the trans characters got short shrift in their own show, so. I didn’t fully love it.

Kiseki Chapter 2. This was a production by 9NAA. They have a history of not paying and exploiting their actors, and they’ve done it too many times, so I didn’t watch this one. Pay your actors and hire intimacy coaches and then I’ll talk about your shows. 

The last one in this section is actually a GL Thai channel that I wanted to shout out. It’s just not to my taste, but I don’t like gatekeeping GL ‘cause there’s so little of it and it’s so hard to find. So, if you’re a fan of the melodrama and older, toxic relationship type tropes, give these guys a try. Last quarter they put out “Friend with Benefits the series” and “Sea [as in S-E-A] you soon”, and my favorite of the three was “You Are My Star the series” which I enjoyed because it retread a lot of BL tropes so I watched it and played, sort of, spot the BL parallels. JPC Media Channel on YouTube.

Now onto the shows that you might actually want to consider. There were a few genre BLs this season that were varying degrees of hit or miss so I’ve grouped them together. I love genre stories, so I don’t want to be too harsh on shows that push the boundaries of the BL genre, but all of these had at least one fatal flaw that makes me not able to recommend them without caveats.

Memory in the Letter is a Thai BL sci-fi/fantasy in which a student falls in love with a stranger in the mirror. This is a short series that had real high highs and low lows for me, including some of the best chemistry across a pane of glass I’ve ever seen. But also, the ending was so poorly handled that I had to call poor Ben to watch with me just so that I’d have someone to share my psychic damage with. Without spoiling anything, this show involves an age gap with actors not age-appropriately cast to hide the fact that the age gap is so large? It also doesn’t treat the age gap seriously or engage with the very serious problems that it raises in its own plot, and I found that very frustrating. So. Make your own choices on that one. 

1000 Years Old the series. This show is a Thai vampire show that spends the first three quarters being an extremely low stakes series in which a vampire owns a pork blood soup stand and a glorious umbrella collection, and is in love with a man obsessed with searching for alien life. It is exactly as silly as it sounds. But then the last few episodes everything turns into intense melodrama, and I’m going to spoil this because I don’t know how not to: We find out that the vampire stays friendly with another vampire who murdered his human lover across multiple lifetimes. I was vibing and then I was really not. 

Two Worlds is another Thai series, and a MaxNat vehicle. The premise of this one is as it says on the tin: There are two parallel universes connected by a glowing body of water. Our protagonist loses his love interest and travels to the parallel universe accidentally while grieving, to realize he has the chance to save his boyfriend’s doppelganger in this new world. While he does that, he finds himself falling for someone else instead. This series is a relatively slow burn show. Whoever made this show, they did the most bewilderingly good job of undercutting every dramatic moment so that it had no stakes or impact that I’ve ever seen. This show was almost impressively boring considering how much was happening at any given moment. I liked that it seemed to be saying people weren’t interchangeable, but then in the end the show undermined its own message. Watching this show was informative for learning about pacing and how narrative tension works or doesn’t in shows. 

Last in this section is The Spirealm. This is a chinese danmei adaptation that we almost didn’t get because of censorship; it was heavily adapted so that rather than magic, the core of the unnatural happenings are a Virtual Reality video game in which our leads have to puzzle through dangerous mysteries to figure out the secrets of each level. It’s fun in an “oh this does feel like a video game” kinda way, and I enjoyed puzzling through the mysteries alongside the leads. But the mysteries drag on too long and they’re repetitive, and the ending of the book is actually really undermined from the adaptation choices. Also, if you’re watching for romance subtext, this is a VERY tame story even for censored cdrama. They barely touch, the shipping moments are few and far between in a long series. So, be forewarned.

Moving away from the supernatural and back to more standard QL fare, A Secretly Love. This felt like a very old-school Thai series, a feeling that was helped by the horrifically bad subtitles; about an engineering student who has been in love with this senior for years and watched him fail miserably at romance over and over. This heavily relies on the viewer enjoying the lead pining over someone who treats him badly for most of the series. So, in order to enjoy this, you have to find someone showing affection by being grumpy, rude, jealous, and demanding cute. No judgment, just giving you the information you need to no. Worth watching if you’re nostalgic for 2020s Thai BL. 

Please Teach Me This is a vertical-format microseries from Korea about an aspiring idol trying to attend college that you have to grind through ads in order to watch. Honestly the series was fine, very middle-of-the-road KBL, but the microseries format and the barriers to watching make it not worth sitting through, in my opinion. 

Blank the Series is a Thai GL is in the same universe as GAP, so if you miss Sam and Mon the characters, they do appear, though portrayed by different actresses. The main couple in this story have a 16-year age gap and the romance starts when the younger one is in high school, though due to plot reasons she’s of age. I know that’s a barrier for some, so I wanted to mention it off the jump, especially because she acts young. That’s the part that I actually struggled with most. This story is very lakorn-like in terms of it being very high melodrama; it also, especially in part two, gets quite sexy. The height difference is also really something. It’s in two parts and both are complete, it does have a happy ending with a cute timeskip. So, you know, manage yourselves on that one.

Jazz For Two. High school Korean music BL in which the main couple really fell flat for me and the side couple were a bully-turned-love-interest that I also really did not enjoy. This show tried to incorporate internalized homophobia as part of its main storyline but didn’t engage with characters overcoming it, so everyone feels kind of like they suddenly switch from being in a drama to a romance and it was both jarring and honestly, a little offensive. Trigger warnings are also important for this one, so take care of yourselves if you’re deciding to watch it.

Boys Be Brave. Another KBL in which a man who can’t say no tries to get the person with a crush on him to ask him out, to no avail. This felt like it was trying to be a manic pixie dream boy meets an autistic-coded grump, but they didn’t quite calibrate either of those characters right. The side couple also ended up landing kind of badly in terms of class politics. But it was pretty, and they were cute. I actually had fun with this one despite everything I just said. 

Deep Night is a Thai BL in which the son of a club owner is against the host/club business model until he falls for one of his mother’s hosts. He decides to start working there to get closer to him. You might imagine that a setup like that would involve class and power politics, but you would be wrong! That being said, this show has a lot to recommend it: The main couple has great chemistry and the side couple is a canonical throuple, and there is another side couple of older sapphics to enjoy, as well. It is also very prettily shot. 

Lastly, Close Friend 3: Soju Bomb is a beautifully shot and cute friendship drama, another Thai/Korean joint series this time about Thai boys in a Korean band who go on a bender in Korea after their contract is canceled. Honestly, my only caveat about this show is that it is absolutely not a BL. There isn’t a romance subplot at all in this show. I spent the entire time it aired so confused waiting for the romance to appear! It does not. If it hadn’t been advertised as Close Friend 3–a series which was previously all BL shorts–I would have enjoyed this for what it was. As it stands, I hold a grudge for being misled. Go in knowing what you’re getting and you’ll be fine. 

Finally, let’s get to the shows that you might have missed that I actually recommend. To Be Continued, a Thai second chance romance of a famous person and a doctor who were friends when they were in high school. This one tells a lot of the story in flashbacks that are poorly paced at the beginning, so the start of the show really drags. But the reveal for why they broke up was satisfying. The pacing is the barrier in this one–if you can power through the first few episodes it ends up being a good little show. They have great chemistry, the story holds together, and I had fun.

Gym Affairs is an absolutely bonkers but cute mainland China BL in which a guy gets a personal trainer and sparks fly. This show is a silly comedy that is also surprisingly earnest. It goes by extremely fast and I really enjoyed the ride. That one’s on YouTube.

Blue Boys/Lonely Girl. SUKFilm is a Korean YouTube channel putting out short series. Blue Boys was a little disappointing, the couple had too many issues that they cycled through so fast.  The GL though, Lonely Girl, was much more focused with a single main problem between the couple and so it worked much better. And both are really beautifully shot and have some great kisses. 

Fake Buddies is another YouTube miniseries. It’s a 7 episode Korean series about a girl and guy who are dating, ostensibly, but really both using the other as a beard because they’re both in a gay relationship. The first few episodes are very funny comedy as the two of them try to make the other realize what’s happening; and then we get prequel episodes for how the gay couple and the lesbian couple both came to be. It’s a fun use of 45 minutes on the guynextdoor YouTube channel if you’re bored. 

To the X Who Hated Me is a Korean GL produced by Red Q. It’s a series of microseries, there’s two out so far with 2-3 episodes each. They’re both GL and solid short second chance romances that are very fun. 

City of Stars is the last one I’ll be talking about. It’s, in my opinion, the best hidden gem QL from this quarter. A charming celebrity/regular guy romance that tackles shipping, toxic fans, and the unreasonable expectations on people in the spotlight. Acting is a little rough, and it’s not  perfect, but it had some really good things to say and it very smartly sandwiches those things among some pretty good sex scenes. The two leads are my communication kings. And there’s some decent trans side rep as well. This show really uses BL as a vehicle for having something to say and I appreciate it. And the story really holds together in a way that’s a little refreshing in Thai BL, too, so I really liked it.

And that’s the dispatch for this quarter! Thanks again for having me. 

00:14:25 Spotlight: Tadaima Okaeri

Ben

It's time to talk about my favorite show of the season that no one else watched except for Twig. [NiNi laughs] We're going to talk about an animated BL from Japan called Tadaima, Okaeri. It is the best show of the season and I'm begging you, please, to go watch this show. 

Tadaima, Okaeri is a 12 episode BL from Studio Deen that aired on Crunchyroll. Studio Deen is actually fairly important in the BL space. Pretty much all of the BL anime that we're probably going to recommend to you offhand was produced by the studio. In this particular one, they're adapting a manga series about a gay couple in the omegaverse that is trying to raise their kid in the suburbs. Our protagonist's name Fujiyoshi Masaki, that is actually his name, and his husband, Hiromu. Masaki is an omega, his husband is an alpha, and they have a son named Hikari together. He is a little baby and they are living in the burbs away from everybody else because they had a very difficult time getting together. 

The show was not so much about the difficulties these two had getting together, it's about them building a life that they love and are happy with after going through what they did. So, like, this is your favorite leads, married and trying to raise their family now and working on healing some of the relationships that were damaged over the course of them getting together. There's a great deal of healing and growth in this. There's healing between Hiromu and his dad, who was not keen on their romance in the first place. There's the fact that these two guys love each other and love being parents. I am very often amused by how much my dad is still obsessed with my mom. And I really liked seeing that in a gay couple here. It was really restorative in a lot of ways, ‘cause we don't ever really see dads in BL. 

This show was so healing. This was such a peaceful experience of a show to watch. What I like the most out of fluffy shows like this is for there to be a nice arc about what life we’re building for our family and a strong thematic thrust of, we're not trying to get back at anybody who hurt us. We just want our kid to grow up in a world where he—and eventually their daughter too—are loved by the people around them. Each episode was about a specific sort of challenge that the family was facing, and some of them were really huge. Like, how are we going to reconcile with the kids’ grandfather who wants to be part of his grandson's life? Even if it's something as small as, Hikaru is getting older and he wants to run an errand. Okay, we're going to let him deliver a letter to his grandfather to the mailbox, and getting a two year old to deliver something [laughs] successfully to a mailbox was a production unto itself, because he kept getting distracted. 

It was genuinely one of the most delightful and wholesome experiences I have ever had in the genre. I have said for a long time that I've wanted a married gay dads show. I was not expecting it to come from the omegaverse of all places, but this was everything I ever hoped it could be and honestly, so much more. If you can handle omegaverse nonsense, including mpreg and the alpha omega pheromone shit, and rutting behavior. This is one of the best shows I have ever seen.

Shan

Oof. [Ben laughs] You just said so many words that upset me.

Ben

I know. I know!

[all laugh]

NiNi

I was like, “if you can handle” I can handle none of those things. I'm sorry.

Ben

If you're gonna be in genre, you gotta take your shit seriously, and I think that's why it worked. This show was not embarrassed about being an omegaverse show. It's not like [funny voice] we're going to do this in omegaverse because we know the girls will fucking show up for it. It took the conceits of its own genre seriously and incorporated it into the emotional context of their characters. 

And so like I totally get it, mpreg is not easy for a lot of people. The rutting behavior stuff, it's not easy for some people. The way that omegaverse is used to perpetuate some of the heteronormative kinds of misogyny that women face is not for everyone, truly and sincerely. When I say that these are caveats to watching this, I am not being funny. These are real things that are being dealt with in this show, but they're not half-assing it. These are not normally things I enjoy. Tell a good story and take your shit seriously and we can show up for it. And that's what happened for me here. 

So, I wholeheartedly recommend this show, but I do think it's important to not downplay that this is very legitimately an omegaverse story.

Shan

I appreciate that.

Ben

It's a 10, baby! Perfect execution of its own premise, and genuinely, it's the kinda show that was so fun to watch with other people.

Shan

I have been so intrigued by the conversation around this show and I really regret that it has so many of my hard lines in it [laughs[ because I would like to see it. I don't think I'll be able to, but I have heard nothing but praise and love from the people who've watched it.

Ben

I love the show with my whole heart. I do not recommend it at all. [Ben and NiNi laugh] This show had really strong ideas and it wore its whole heart on its sleeves the whole time. Mm mm mm. What an experience. Great show.

00:20:32 Girl, You Tried

Ben

Let's hand out our favorite award on the show: Girl, You Tried.

NiNi

Our nominees this season for a Girl, You Tried are Unknown the series from Taiwan, Love is Better the Second Time Around from Japan, and Living With Him from Japan. Does anybody wanna do propaganda here?

Ben

Ooh…

Shan

Let's start with reminding folks how we think about Girl, You Tried.

Ben

The Girl, You Tried for me is meant to reflect on a production that missed the mark, but we felt like the core work and the intent was there to actually do something good, and for whatever reason stumbled.

Shan

There's different ways that shows can stumble. There are shows that can be very well told and very confident up to a point, and then a mistake is made that is hard to recover from. There are shows that never quite nailed what they were trying to do, but did clearly have aspirations. There are shows that have a solid idea of at least the beginning and endpoints and something in the middle just got messy. So, those are different categories of ways that shows can go sideways. And all of these different ways came up in this season. 

For me, a show like Unknown is not a Girl, You Tried because they actually did succeed at what they were doing for the vast majority of their run. So I wouldn't call that a Girl, You Tried. They made a mistake right at the end—and it was a big mistake—but their level of execution was so good through most of the show that I can't really consider that a Girl, You Tried. 

For our two Japanese BLs here, Love is Better was really solid through about the first four episodes, and then it kind of veered off in a very strange direction that I still don't really understand why that happened. Versus Living With Him had a solid start, had a pretty decent end point that it was trying to get towards, and then got kind of messed up along the way trying to stretch out the story. 

So for me I think I would want to give the Girl, You Tried to Living With Him out of these three, because I do think they had the bones of a good story. They executed parts of it really well. But in their effort to stretch it out into a longer format than the story really supported, they kind of lost track of some of their threads and got a little confused in the way that they landed at the end. So for me that one makes more sense as a Girl, You Tried because I see what they were trying to do. And I think that they just made some execution errors that got in the way.

Ben

An interesting analysis; one I will be pondering. It feels mean to say that Unknown is a Girl, You Tried because they rushed to their sex scene. It ignores how good the family story was around all of that, but I am also torn now if I'm going to choose between Love is Better and Living With Him because I feel like my angst for Living With Him is it doesn't release the implied sexual tension that really irritated me more than anything else, which Love is Better absolutely did. 

Man, this is hard.

Shan

Have we ever had a Girl, You Tried tie?

Ben

We have not.

NiNi

There's usually a fairly clear cut winner once we talk about it, but I think part of the problem is that Love is Better and Living With Him sort of failed in similar ways, so it's hard to choose.

Ben

If I have to choose between the two of them, Love is Better the Second Time Around knew exactly what it was doing and it made very bad choices, and there's a difference between making stupid choices and struggling against something you couldn't do, in my opinion. I will give it to Living With Him because there's so much hang time, it's overly reliant on actor charm to hold itself together, and I do like how well the cast was able to hold this flimsy project together.

I think weaker actors would have made this a more irritating experience than it was, as opposed to just being kind of disappointing. So if I'm backed into a corner and have to choose [Shan laughs], it's going to be Living With Him.

Shan

[laughs] You do. Good job.

NiNi

Oh no, I'm about to throw a spanner in the works because I'm going to go for Love Is Better. [laughs]

Shan

This is very exciting! This is Conversation pod history!

Ben

Go ahead, give us your reasoning. 

NiNi

For me, the original premise of Girl, You Tried was always ‘a strong idea that failed in the execution,’ and I feel like the ideas from Love is Better were stronger to me than the ideas in Living With Him, just in terms of, A, what I was interested in seeing and, B, what they wanted to do. I feel like those ideas were stronger in Love is Better. So the failure of the execution part is not the part that I'm looking at in terms of comparing the two, but the strength of the premise part.

Ben

Because both of these shows had really strong gay themes in them that I was really compelled by, I am going to allow them to tie and both get a Girl, You Tried, because I think both these shows were trying to do something really cool. I think by episode 3 and 4 both of these shows, I was like, “This show's got something in it. This is a real contender!” And then it was like, “Oh no, what happened, girl? Come on.” [laughs]

NiNi

So our first ever Girl, You Tried tie! Girls, you both tried.

Ben

Congratulations to Japan for getting your first Girl, You Tried awards. 

NiNi

Is it?

Shan

And the double at that! Japan, always overachieving.

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

00:27:02 Celebrating 50 Episodes

NiNi

I think we have exorcized the demon of the summer, so let's wrap this up. We are wrapping our summer lagniappe and wrapping our summer season. See you in dot-dot-dot weeks for our fall season beginning as soon as I can get my shit together and edit.

Shan

NiNi, should we shout out that this is the 50th episode of the podcast?

Ben

Oh shit!

NiNi

[gasp] Oh my God, we didn't even talk about that! Yes, congratulate us, guys. This is episode number 50 for The Conversation! 

Ben

Oh my God. [air horn sound]

Shan

There ya go.

Ben

If you are one of our listeners who has listened to us talk for all 50 episodes, please—

Shan

Wow.

Ben

—shout us out on Tumblr. I would love to talk to you and see how you're feeling about what we're doing after all this time.

Shan

You're a trooper if you actually did that.

NiNi

[laughs] Please, please, please. If you love us and you're hearing this, we are 50 episodes old today. Send us a note. Either send us a note on Tumblr if you know how to do that, or send us something in the Spotify down below—whatever…answer the thing thing.

Ben

[laughs] In the doobly-doo.

NiNi

Listen, okay? Auntie's old, okay? She don't remember what things are called. 

We out! Say bye to the people, Shan.

Shan

Bye, people!

NiNi

Ben, say bye to the people.

Ben

Peace.

[junk-heart]

Hi guys, feel like I need to say this since most of you followed me for the crp content

I won't be posting as much of it anymore for the multitude of reasons, the biggest being general fandom and pressure

Have to start off by saying, all of you are absolutely wonderful, all I've ever received was support and kind words, thanks for that (like, a lot), especially my mutuals, but the whole vibe of the fandom has been rancid for months...

General negativity surrounding crp where ever I go, be it people striving for characters to be written as "cannon" (while making them as edgy as possible, to the point it becomes as comically overdone as original stories), age discourse, shitting on other peoples styles/headcanons etc... It's just as toxic (if not more) than it was 6 years ago

Basically, people are being shitty twards each other and I don't want any part of it

This always happens when the fandom becomes more popular ofc, so expect me to be back full force once it's popularity dies down

One of the reasons why I started posting some of my crp art 2 years ago was because the atmosphere calmed down and people who were left were mostly nice

I'm still gonna draw the creeps for myself (it's been my longest lasting obsession, since the age of 9 or 10, so I won't let it go because of this lmao), I just won't post them much, thanks for the understanding ^^

[peri]

Peridot and Unlearning (Internalized & Externalized) Homophobia

i.e., here's why peridot's redemption arc is partially (a metaphor?) about unlearning homophobia

the title sounds crazy but bear with me here.

let's start off with saying NO, fusion does not = romantic love. that's an age old discourse and it can be so easily solved by stating there are many different forms of love, and sometimes fusion is just for power (which is a form of love in-of itself, albeit fucked; the love for power or toxic love) HOWEVER, in many cases, such as Garnet's, it most certainly is about romantic love. so to keep it as brief as possible, thats what we have in mind in this post. it's gay love okay.

now, let's talk about the scene i just captioned. this is from the episode "too far," which is an episode about developing a crush and accidentally hurting them in the process of trying to impress them. (however you want to look at it, but thats how i interpret it) the fact it starts off with casual homophobia is important, coz it shows peridot still has a lot of prejudices despite recently becoming part of the team, which is full of gay people, undeniably.

peridot's redemption arc is partially about coming to terms with your sexuality, retraining your mind from internalized homophobia after being raised in such a homophobic society/household, and becoming proud of your sexuality / identity.

OBSERVE:

"you dont understand! im protecting a planet i was once trying to destroy! i used to follow every order - every rule!"

"now im a traitor! a rebel!"

"A CRYSTAL QUEEEEEER"

sorry i had that joke stored for this analysis since 2019. anyways

i'm going to try to keep this short, but more under the cut.

IM SO BAD at organizing my words so this post is rly hard to make so im gonna do it like this.

MORE EVIDENCE THAT PERIDOT'S REDEMPTION ARC IS COMING TO TERMS WITH BEING GAY / UNLEARNING HOMOPHOBIA:

being frustrated about joining a lesbian/gay gang

coming from a society where homosexuality is forbidden

telling off your mom by saying youre joining some rebel lesbians/gays to fight her oppressive society

wearing pride flags (stars) everywhere after coming out

looking up to experienced lesbians (Garnet)

the scissoring joke (from "too far." if you know you know)

furthermore, i thought it'd be fair to include peridot learning how to respect how people identify in other ways, such as names / how they prefer to be addressed. this, most of the time, goes hand-in-hand with homophobia.

peridot, narrating: "he also said he wanted me to stop calling him "the" steven." steven: "its just, steven!" peridot: "i told him i'd call him whatever i want!" [hiss] peridot: "he told me that was rude."

(from the episode "log date 7 15 2")

peridot learns how to respect how people identify. lgbt win

i should add she also eventually learns how to respect Garnet's whole deal in the same episode (log date 7 15 2) which was also a huge moment in her unlearning homophobia. which, btw if you dont know or dont remember, Garnet does by comparing herself to peridot's (assuming) gay ship between Percy and Pierre from Camp Pining Hearts, saying she was the optimized version of herself (the reason peridot "ships" them; theyre the best team logically according to her analysis ship chart)

anyways, now the biggest most obvious point is the fact that peridot actually is gay. i've referred to this episode a few times now, but thats becoz it really is a huge point in proving my 'thesis';

in the episode "too far," peridot is shown to get obsessed with impressing amethyst. peridot experiences something they havent yet up until this point: a crush. i mean, you can interpret it as you wish, but thats how i saw it. the butterflies, the obsession with making someone laugh, the fact peridot states amethyst is objectively the best gem of the crystal gems and emphasizes "damaging her standing with the best gem here" with their apology to amethyst after hurting her feelings.

and um, this.

🌈yeag

sorry im losing any professionalism i started this post with. also this is focusing on early-season / redemption arc peridot which is why its kind of short and is missing stuff from later seasons. i hope this was at least somewhat concise and easy to understand, and i hope yall see my point of view here! feel free to add on (theres SO MUCH its easy for it to skip my mind) if you have any other points youd like to make to support my cause and uprising. love you

[murky-tannin]

you had BASED tags under that museum discourse post, i had to laugh when i saw people complaining that museum doesn’t have enough cellbit or roier arts lately like ??? have these people been sleeping under a rock for the last 10 months or

Genuinely!!! I had a Roier fan tell me I didn't know what it was like for my cc to be "underappreciated" (me, a Maxo fan) and just. Roier?? Roier, fandom and admin fav since the start. ROIER. ROIER is being ignored.

I've seen multiple people claim he's being genuine when he jokes about not enough spiderbit art or art of him in the museum. As if the joke isn't he has way more then others and asking for more is ridiculous. As if the joke isn't "Roier of all people asking for more art of him would be so dumb". They think it's genuine. Also, if it WAS genuine that would be Wrong of ccRoier and incredibly self centered, not something to agree with?

Idk just. If you're gonna talk about times where ccs were shafted in the museum, talk about how Fit used to be a great example of this, or Pierre, or Ramón, or Mouse, or something. Talk about people who play pretty often who don't get much art featured if any, talk about people who never play who get a lot of art featured in comparison. Talk about what is in the art itself. Don't talk about how two of the three biggest fan favs who have dominated the museum since it's inception "aren't getting enough art"

[butch-reidentified]

Every new fracturing discourse topic upsets me so much because men will go to bat for each other regardless of quite literally everything else all that matters is that they're men. Religion doesn't matter. Crimes don't matter. Political stances don't matter. Relationship status doesn't matter. Ethnicity sexuality history nationality still matter to some extent but they'll still find a way to be together to the detriment of women. Men will side with fictional men and men they haven't even met when women speak of their own experiences. All that matters is that they're men and from that point on they will find reasons to relate to each other and to find parts of each other to befriend and relate to. I'm so fucking SICK of women not understanding this and dividing ourselves further.

YES exactly. the extent of my engagement in this has rly been just me begging women to stop & listen, to clarify what I (& my wife) are saying bc theres so much assuming, misinterpreting, misunderstanding, etc being spread and that's like, one of my personal biggest bothers (being disbelieved when I'm being honest, specifically, which is why I make it a point not to lie, but relatedly, being misunderstood/misrepresented). it's like my one genuine trigger in life. and so this has been like my worst nightmare in terms of that, just totally out of control misrepresentations of me being spread beyond any damage control i could attempt.

my one real trigger (legit gets to me more than many of my actual traumas have) worst nightmare interpersonal scenario, and I am STILL trying so so hard to lead with sisterhood and grace toward other women. to the point I've chosen to stop actually even engaging and allow such a triggering situation to continue, allow such misrepresentations to spread & worsen, just bc i want to prioritize female liberation, like i said the other day. it's not easy. it's really really not. but i am NOT gonna go to war with other women, god ESPECIALLY radfems/rad-leaning. whywhywhy are we focusing on this???

i actually think it's a great irony that the post that started all this was me saying (paraphrased), "if you're not into female-exclusive/feminist witchcraft stuff, i don't get it, but it's totally cool just please don't be unkind to women who are into it." this discourse didn't start over "women who arent into witchcraft suck and should be into it" or anything remotely like that, it started with me saying let's be kind to radfems who do some harmless thing we don't also do. it's so meta fr lmao

[mcsm-confessions]

Okay I'm gonna be so totally honest rn, I played MCSM when I was a kid but have only joined the fandom recently after replaying the games with my little brother

Y'alls discourse about shipping is genuinely hilarious to me, like, toxic ships is your seemingly biggest problem as a fandom? God, I've just come from a fandom where shipping a god with a child was normalized up until VERY recently, this place is like a breath of fresh air LMAO

Anyways, I think people really need to relax here, y'all seem so uptight, like you're barely having fun! You're online to have fun, that's it. If something online, like a ship for example, is genuinely distressing you, then please block the tag or person or whatever for your own mental health. I do worry because some of the posts I've seen about certain things, the people behind them genuinely seem really angry and upset, and I'm not going to judge someone for what makes them upset. Hell, there's certain ships that annoy me more than they reasonably should, but you really shouldn't brew in your own emotions like that, it's really not healthy

That's just what I've seen though, idk, I could be wrong about the fandom and it's just that I've just happened to come across the worst bits. But that's just my two cents on the fandom as a whole so far

~~~