#learning irish

[an-spideog]

Don't Use Duolingo if You Really Want to Learn Irish

That title is a bit dramatic, but I really don't think that duolingo is a useful tool for Irish, especially in its current state, so I want to talk a bit about why, and I'll also talk about some alternatives.

Pronunciation

The first and most egregious issue is that at some point recently-ish, duo decided to start using Text-To-Speech for their Irish course, rather than recordings of a native speaker. The problem here is that their TTS is not trained on native speakers of Irish and pronounces words incorrectly. It doesn't make consistent distinctions between broad and slender consonants for example.

Irish has no standard pronunciation, so I understand how it can feel weird to choose just one dialect for the purposes of pronunciation (the old recordings were from a speaker of Galway Irish), but having just one dialect is much better than TTS which sounds like a learner, imagine if they had TTS for the French course which sounded like an anglophone schoolkid trying to pronounce french, and claimed they were teaching you how to speak french!

Grammar

Duo tends to be correct on grammar at least, which is a start. But often people using it get very confused about the grammar because duo doesn't explain any of it. I think there's a place for immersion in language learning, and I don't think everything has to be explained like that, but within duo's system of sentence testing and exercises like that, not having any explanation for why it's "mo chóta" and not "mo cóta" can be really confusing. Duo used to have more grammar information, it's a shame that they removed it, I wonder why they did it.

Money and Motivation

Duolingo is a business, and their motivation is not to help you learn a language 'fully', but to keep you using their app and hopefully have a higher chance of sharing it with others, competing with others, buying or causing others to buy memberships or lingots or any other in-app purchases.

I don't want to make it out like duo is some big conspiracy and they're tricking people, I don't think that's the case, but it's good to remember that their primary motivation is to keep people using the app, rather than help people move to a level in a language where they don't need the app anymore.

Keep this in mind whenever you see people trying to sell you stuff for language learning.

Why do people use Duolingo

I do get it, and I don't want to make anyone feel bad for using duo, there's a ton of reasons people tend towards it at first 1. It's really well known, so especially if you're learning a language and haven't heard of other resources for it, you'll check duolingo 2. It's very motivating for a lot of people, checking in every day and forming that habit is a really good way of sticking with a language 3. It's fun, people enjoy it

If you use it for reason 3. and you still like it, then don't worry about this post, I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yums, keep having fun!

If you use it for reasons 1. or 2. you can still keep using it if you like, but I want to suggest some other things which you might find helpful in trying to get to a higher level in Irish.

Other Resources

To address the pronunciation issue, I'd heavily recommend you disregard the pronunciation in duolingo, if you're looking for more reliable sources of pronunciation, I'd look towards recordings of native speakers, you can find that on:

Teanglann and Foclóir (they use the same recordings)

Fuaimeanna

and a really useful and underused one: https://davissandefur.github.io/minimal-pairs/ where you can hear the difference between similar sounds that English speakers often mix up in Irish.

A lot of people like duolingo because it's nice to have a clear path forward, a progression that you can get into without too much decision-making. For this I recommend getting a good textbook or course and working through it, the ones I'll recommend also have native speaker audio on them.

Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail, this book teaches Galway Irish, not just in pronunciation but in grammar too. It's quite dense but it's well thought out and well explained.

Teach Yourself Irish (1961) this book is available for free online, and is a really good option if you're interested in Cork Irish (Munster), and have some experience with grammatical terminology. I used this book myself and really liked it, but it's very intense and not for everyone. (If you do end up using it, feel free to skip the appendices at the start, they're more of a reference and sometimes put people off from actually getting to the first chapter. Also if you have any questions about it or need any help just let me know.)

If you want a video course, there's a great course called "Now You're Talking" which is available for free online, along with audio files and worksheets here. It features Donegal Irish and leads into the more intermediate level course called Céim ar Aghaidh also available online.

There's other textbooks that I have less experience with (Buntús na Gaeilge, Gaeilge/Gramadach Gan Stró, etc.) but if they work for you, stick with them, there's nothing worse than not making progress because you keep switching resources trying to find the "perfect one"

Whether or not you continue to use Duolingo, I would really really encourage you to try engaging with media in Irish. People often shy away from this when they're learning because they don't feel like they're "ready" yet. But you basically never feel like you're ready, you just have to try and find something near your level and try to get comfortable with not understanding everything. This is where you learn a huge portion of the language, you hear how things are pronounced you see what words mean in what contexts, getting input in your target language is so important!

I know content can be kind of hard to find, so I'll make a few recommendations here: There's a wealth of content available for free online (more if you're in ireland but some internationally) on TG4 If you're still starting out, I'd recommend trying to watch some kids shows since they'll have simpler language and will be easier to follow. I wouldn't recommend using English subtitles when you watch them. Some good options include:

Dónall Dána: an Irish dub of Horrid Henry, silly and childish but the actors have good Irish and importantly the show has Irish language subtitles, they don't always match but if you're still beginning and can't necessarily get everything by ear, they're really useful. (Mostly Galway Irish)

Curious George: another dub, again with Irish language subtitles (I can't remember what dialects were in it off the top of my head but I'd assume mostly galway again)

Seó Luna: No subtitles, but a good option if you're aiming for Munster Irish, the lead character has Kerry Irish

Miraculous: No subtitles but a better show than most of the other kids' ones and more bearable to watch as an adult (Mostly Galway Irish)

Ros na Rún: Moving away from kids shows, a long running soap opera, this has Irish subtitles and a really good mix of dialects within the show. If you're finding the kids shows boring or too easy I'd really recommend it, but it can be complex because of the amount of characters, dialects, and plotlines. I'd recommend starting at the beginning of a newer season and just trying to catch on to what's happening as you go.

There are a lot of books, if you live in Ireland you can get nearly any Irish book for free from a library, so please check out your local library or request some of these from other libraries in the system:

There's a series of fairytales (Rápúnzell, Luaithríona etc.) by Máiréad Ní Ghráda which are illustrated and for children, which are a really good option for when you're just starting out reading

There's kids books about Fionn and the Fianna by Tadhg Mac Dhonnagáin

There's a cute little kids' book in Kerry Irish about a cat named Mábúis

Leabhar Breac has a lot of graphic novels, some of them based on Irish mythology, some on other stuff. The fact that they're illustrated can make it a lot easier to follow even if you don't understand all the words at first.

Gliadar has just released their Scott Pilgrim translation

If you're looking for something a bit more advanced you can look at some of the books for adult learners by Comhar, they contain simplified language and glossaries but have full original adult stories.

And if you're wanting full, natural, native-level Irish there's a load of books by those same groups, and others like An Gúm, Cló Iar-Chonnacht, Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne, Éabhlóid, Coiscéim, and more.

And don't shy away from older books written in Seanchló either, they can be more challenging but it's a whole extra world of books

If you're trying to improve your listening comprehension, I definitely recommend listening to shows on Raidió na Gaeltachta, hearing native Irish speakers talk at full speed is really good practice. But I get that it can be overwhelming at first. Here are some things you can do as you build up to that:

Watching those same TV shows I mentioned without subtitles is a good way to build up listening skills.

Vifax is a website where you can practice listening to short news segments and answer questions on them, then getting to look at the transcript with notes afterwards.

Snas is kind of the evolution of vifax, now using clips from both the news and Ros na Rún.

I really hope that this post can help people move away from duolingo if they're looking to take their Irish learning to the next level, if you've got any questions, just let me know!

[tricksterstudies]

Bee vocabulary as Gaeilge

Was watching a documentary about bees on TG4 so I decided look up some words to help me better understand Gaeilge - English Ál beacha - Bee brood Beach - Bee Beachaire - Beekeeper Beach bheala - Honeybee Beachlann - Apiary Beachnaireacht - Apiculture Beach oibre - Worker bee Bláth fiáin - Wildflower Bumbóg - Bumblebee Céir bheach - Beeswax Cíor mheala - Honeycomb Coilíneacht - Colony Coirceog - Beehive Cráinbheach - Queen bee Glóthach ríoga - Royal jelly Ladrann - Drone Larbha - Larva Mil - Honey Neachtar - Nectar Pailin - Pollen Pailneoir - Pollinator Pailnigh - To pollinate Saithe - Swarm

[heartstopper-i-ngaeilge]

De réir dealraimh, foilseofar aistriúchán oifigiúil ar Heartstopper go luath. Agus ní mise a bheidh á aistriú. Beidh sé an-spéisiúil an leagan sin agus mo leagansa a chur i gcomparáid, nach mbeidh?

Táim ag tnúth go mór leis!

[duine-aiteach]

A selection of pages from a Bun Go Barr schoolbook - aimed at kids around 10-12 - that has reference pages on verbs, weather, numbers, seasons, possessives, questions and basic sentence structure.

Please note that in Ireland spring begins on February 1st (St. Brigid’s Day) which means our seasons are slightly different to everywhere else. Spring is February, March and April. Summer is May, June and July. Autumn is August, September and October. Winter is November, December and January.

[anngersmy]

Conditioning occurs all the time in society.

Today, I was just doing Duolingo Irish, and they have this matching words exercise. The English word was NURSE. I couldn't find BANALTRA, which is what I learned from a very young age as the word for NURSE. There was, however, the world ALTRA, which I matched. Never in my many years of education in the Irish school system was the world ALTRA used for NURSE. It was always BANALTRA. We were being conditioned from a young age that NURSES ARE WOMEN! For those that are not familiar with the Irish language, when the word BAN is in front of a profession, it is a woman in that profession. My tiny, just about 4 year old brain only comprehended the word BANALTRA that I was shown as the name for NURSE, and I kept it for all time until today. By the way, Google Translate still has BANALTRA.... so nurses are only women ......Mad.

[scamallach-1]

Today my goal is to make some flash cards of the IPA for Gaeilge - has anyone else done this or have any tips? Did it help you?

[jasmineaxd]

28/100 days of productivity - 05.09.24

Academic

• 3h studying for school

• 1h studying for driving licence theory test

• 1h studying for Johanniter state competition

• 15min Duolingo (Irish, Ukrainian, Czech)

Physical

• steps : 3907

Selfcare

• 10min meditation

• Skincare

• Nailcare

Other

The first aid competition, I've been studying for the last couple of weeks, is on this weekend, so I started to pack my suitcase today. We'll leave tomorrow afternoon and arrive sometime in the evening. The theory part will be on Saturday (wish me luck). The competition is in Leipzig (pretty cool city) and I'm looking forward to the weekend because at the same time I can have fun with my friends from our team. I hope all the studying will pay off!

[quiggel]

How would one go about learning Irish ?

Well, there’s the Duolingo Irish course, but it’s not that great. I use it and it’s fine but I already have a basic understanding of the language. Not sure how good it would be for new learners.

Other than that I don’t really know other than looking for someone to teach you. I’d be willing to make a few posts going over some of the basics if people would be interested in that, but I’m by no means fluent.

If anyone knows any other, better ways to learn please add on!!

[warrior-wordsmith]

I want to ask the question "what is his name?" but while I know how to say what my name is, and ask what's your name, I'm less certain about this one. Would it be cad is ainm doibh? That doesn't feel right.

[an-spideog]

"it's pronounced kah-HEER" no, it's pronounced cathaoir

"It's pronounced cheer" no, it's pronounced tír

"It's pronounced sow-roo", no it's pronounced samhradh

"it's pronounced BAW-shtock" no, it's pronounced báisteach

"It's pronounced dee-ah gwit, it's pronounced jee-ah gwitch, it's pronounced jee-ah ditch, it's proonunced jee-ah gwit, it's pronounced dee-ah dit it's it's it's", it's pronounced dia duit or dia dhuit

"it's pronounced cul-la saw-v", do you even know what the hyphens are for??

"It's pronounced fram-a drap-a-door-ackta", god help us all

"It's pronounced uvvaka", someone commented this under a video of a child native to the Gaeltacht I'm losing my mind (the child said uibheachaí I think, I would say uibhe)

Irish and English have different sounds, so it's not possible to accurately represent the sounds of Irish using English spelling. This is obvious for what people call "guttural" sounds, like broad ch, you often see some variation of "chock" or "chokh" or "choh" for teach, but obviously english has no way of spelling that sound. It's not just a few sounds though, Irish has like 30 different consonants. Broad b, slender b, broad d, slender d etc.

PLUS, Irish spelling usually tells you how to pronounce words pretty accurately if you understand the rules, so this kind of respelling isn't necessary.

DOUBLE PLUS, different dialects will pronounce words differently, but the spelling will often accurately represent that for all of them. I say samhradh as samhra with a neutral vowel at the end, because that's how -adh is read in munster*, whereas in ulster they would read it as samhrú because that's how -adh is read there.

*for nouns

[tricksterstudies]

Irish Vocab from Éasca Péasca - Caibidil 2

From the book Short Stories to Learn Irish by Olly Richards Highlighted by the book: An-chraic - Great fun Cúthail - Shy Thar a bheith - Exceedingly Thar mholadh beirte - Not great/Below par Aerfort na Sionainne - Shannon Airport Carrchlós - Car park Tost - Silence Árasán - Apartment an Fhaiche Mhór - Eyre Square Radharc - View Stiúgtha - Starving In aice láimhe - Nearby Bia mara - Seafood Fadhb - Problem Plódaithe - Crowded Go háirithe - Particularly Suaimhneach - Peaceful Luasbhus - Express bus Cadhnra - Battery Ar an dea-uair - Fortunately De ghlanmheabhair - By heart Ag geonaíl - Grumbling Splanc inspioráide - Flash of inspiration Tuirse arthurais - Jetlag Highlighted by me: Aimsigh - To find Tuirling - To descend Meangadh - Smile Leiceann - Cheek I gcroílár - In the very middle of... Urlár - Floor Tobann - Sudden/Unexpected Airigh - To sense/perceive/feel Ullmhaigh - To prepare Anonn - Over/to the side Tit i laige - To faint Suíochán - Seat Duine uasail - Sir Leaindeáilte - Landed Gabh - Take Cinn - Step/Fix/Determine Teagmhaigh - To meet/touch Gortaigh - To hurt/injure Géar - Sharp Uafásach - Horrible Múch - To extinguish A leithéid de lá! - What a day!

[heartstopper-i-ngaeilge]

Tá an leabhar faighte agam!

[thirteenashmctrash]

Ive been studying Irish for years but I'm struggling to get past A1-A2 because i have nobody to practice with and it's very hard to find people where i am. there's paid apps that can help you find language partners but i am broke and Irish isn't a commonly available language on them. I've had an idea to get around this, but for it to be worth trying to set I'd need at least a few people with carried levels of 'fluency' to be interested.

the idea is to set up an Irish language discord. it would have roles for beginner, intermediate, advanced, and native speakers. there would be text chats with different topics and voice chats where people can talk to each other. it would just be a space where people trying to learn can speak and practice with each other.

i really only need a few other people for this to be worth it, and ideally at least one person who'd fit the advanced or native speaker role. if you'd be interested in joining this discord for practice, please let me know and if i get enough responses, I'll set it up and let people know

[kylobith]

Fun fact of the day: 'old woman' in Irish is 'seanbhean' You're welcome.

[scamallach-1]

Today I learned some prepositions as Gaeilge, personal pronouns in combo with ‘Do’. It’s making sense to me so far, though I’m taking small steps. Anyway just wanted to note that for myself here.