#this is about the experience of plurality itself after all

[kyofsonder]

We don't often make up-front posts about our system or the people in it, but we have a sudden desire to say this into the Tumblr void and no good arguments against doing so.

Having your speaking and/or thinking accent suddenly shift at a random moment for no apparent reason is a hell of a specific experience, isn't it? Suddenly, your mouth just wants to take a different shape and your words comes out in a different way and it's not even necessarily an accent you're regularly exposed to or have a reason to mirror or want to practice. It's just there, all of the sudden, and you ride it out until you either feel it fade or have to mask it around others. It's. A hell of a thing, is all we can think to say.

We're always co-con to some degree, too, so we'll feel the ebb and flow of it as the accent-holder is closer to and further from our shared consciousness. It'll warp our accent into something between our usual/default one and whatever the accent-holder has.

Maybe we've posted about this before and forgotten, but it's weird and fascinating to us every time. Speaking patterns changing is already both those things, but whole accent shifts are... another level.

Being plural is wild, truly. We'll probably never stop being surprised, even by aspects/experiences of it we've known a thousand times over.

[sophieinwonderland]

A Roadmap and Why Anti-Endos Are Getting Left Behind

A recent post of mine was controversial and has been making waves. That post was the short un-nuanced version of a pro-endo future that's coming. It was phrased to sound threatening and inflammatory because it feels like that's all anti-endos will listen to anymore. But now that I've successfully gotten your attention, let's talk seriously about what's been set into motion, why it's bad for anti-endos, and why there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.

Positions on endogenic plurality in psychiatry

The nature of DID has been the subject of much debate within the psychiatric community for a long time. Most experts have agreed that the cause of DID is virtually always trauma. (Although many doctors are hesitant to assert this cause 100% of the time because edge cases can exist with anything.) But there's a smaller group that views it as sociogenic or iatrogenic, being caused by suggestion or doctors themselves.

I tend to agree with the majority.

But that majority group that believes DID itself is caused by trauma has also consistently acknowledged that there are, or at least could be, other forms of plurality beyond DID. This includes Dr. Colin Ross, who in the 90s speculated that there could be a non-pathological endogenous form of multiplicity. This was also echoed by Kluft, another DID expert who holds the traumagenic view of DID.

In the early 2010s, the creators of the theory of structural dissociation mentioned in a paper that mediumship and hypnosis may involve self-conscious dissociative parts of the personality.

By 2019, the World Health Organization's ICD-11's DID entry stated that you can experience multiple distinct personality states without a disorder.

Every source you can find about endogenic and non-disordered plurality either affirms it as a real thing or is at least neutral on it.

There is no hard anti-endo papers in psychiatry or psychology.

You can look through peer reviewed sources if you want for a single one that supports the idea that all plurality is traumagenic, and I promise that you won't find one.

A growing trend in research.

Like I said, in the 90s, there were a couple doctors talking about non-pathological multiplicity as something that may or may not exist. But this was largely un-studied. Later, this phenomenon got more attention, but there were no studies into non-pathological multiplicity, outside of spiritual possession, until 2016 with Varieties of Tulpa Experiences.

That was only 8 years ago.

The year after, in 2017, came a small interview study into online multiples that concluded this:

2018 saw the publication of Transgender Mental Health by The American Psychiatric Association, which asserted plurality could be non-traumagenic.

And again, 2019 saw the ICD-11 worded to say that one could experience the presence of multiple distinct personality states without a disorder.

There have been so many studies conducted in the intervening years that this post would go on forever were I to list them all.

If you want to see more, you can look at Guardians Systems' doc. Progress is happening at a rapid pace with new studies published every year.

This leads us to the next big milestone... actual fMRI research and brain scans. Because THAT'S HAPPENING.

Stanford University conducted a massive $50k study (not including the payment to researchers themselves) into tulpa systems, and the people running those studies recently did an AMA about it on Reddit.

The results are promising, showing neurological changes during possession. (Possession is a tulpamancy term for a headmate taking control over a single part of the body without fronting.)

Once this is published, it's only going to further pique interest in tulpamancy and endogenic plurality in psychology.

Are you scared yet? Because Rod Dreher is...

Rod Dreher is a transphobic conservative pundit and reactionary. I'll preface this by saying it's unclear how much of his fear is legitimate and how much is playing to a transphobic base as a way of saying "look what these liberals are doing now." Personally, I think it's probably a bit of both.

I'll be linking the archived version to avoid giving him clicks.

What conservative pundit Rod Dreher believes is that tulpamancy and plurality are going to be the next frontier of identity politics, as he makes the case for here.

He's of course NOT in support of this, but he's afraid of it.

And he's not wrong either.

In another quote from the AMA, Dr. Lifshitz mentions how much interest he gets from colleagues when he discusses tulpamancy.

The awareness of plurality and interest in it in medical spaces is rapidly spreading, and current studies do show tulpamancy improves mental health.

While it would be easy to dismiss Dreher's predictions as typical conservative fearmongering, the current trends clearly support what he's predicting.

He may be on the wrong side of the debate, but he can see the same signs and trends I do.

Plural Acceptance In Therapy

As said above, studies have shown thus far that tulpamancy is healthy, as are other forms of plurality. Plural awareness and interest is spreading quickly through academic circles.

And in one interview, Lifshitz mentions that they're interested in using research into tulpamancy to develop better DID treatment.

This will take a while to apply, and I don't know when they'll start using knowledge from tulpamancy in clinical settings, but there's a good chance that within the next decade, this research into tulpamancy may start to influence the treatment of DID systems.

How this will manifest is still unclear. Perhaps it won't go further than the advanced inner world exercises tulpamancers use to immerse themselves in inner worlds to communicate with tulpas.

But... a number of DID systems with tulpas have reported positive benefits from creating tulpas to help their systems. So maybe we'll see studies into using tulpamancy to intentionally make alters for DID systems and see how that benefits their mental health. If results are positive, this could be used in treatment.

Speaking of which, we're probably also going to see studies into having singlets create tulpas intentionally.

They're already having children make imagined companions, and have recorded these imagined companions are able to act seemingly autonomously, possessing their own thoughts and feelings.

This research cited research into tulpamancy, and suggested future studies should be carried out on adults to see if there are benefits.

I can already see the path from having adult singlets make tulpas to test for benefits of plurality, and then to testing on DID systems to see if this could be used to help strengthen communication in those systems.

And if these studies are done and the methods are proven effective and put into practice, anti-endos won't even know that the methods that are being used to treat them were derived from tulpamancy studies.

But as more anti-endos are being treated by therapists who are working to get them into healthier mindsets, it's likely you'll see a trickle down from the opinions of therapists to their patients, helping dismantle their bigotry towards endogenic systems and internalized pluralphobia.

If you're anti-endo and have seen other anti-endos complaining that their therapists seem pro-endo, know that it only gets worse from here.

Plural Acceptance and Gender

Plurality is also likely to become an increasingly big thing in topics around gender.

Just last year in 2023, we saw a study into the intersection of living as plural and transgender.

This study also marked a major milestone for plurals, being the first time ever that a system name (The Redwoods) was used as an author on an academic paper. Authors in this study worked across multiple universities, a hospital, and a gender wellness center.

This will almost definitely not be the last.

Additionally, we've lately been seeing live gender conferences with plural speakers speaking about plurality and this intersection. No longer is this community based entirely online.

Plural acceptance is going to quickly spread within the LGBT community. And anti-endos will be tolerated in those spaces less and less.

A Stranglehold on Resources

Another reason anti-endos are going to lose is because most resources are already pro-endo. Simply Plural and Pluralkit both support endogenic systems, with Simply Plural having links discussing endogenic plurality, linking young systems to the information.

There have been anti-endo attempts at breaking this stranglehold, but it always comes down to copying a more popular pro-endo thing and making it more hateful and exclusive, and it never gets close to enough traction.

Anti-endos contribute nothing to the community and are reliant on pro-endo resources, and every person they suggest Simply Plural to brings them closer to those pro-endo articles from The Plural Association.

Confidence in Being Out as Plural Means Plural Role Models

I don't know who these role models will be. Aimkid came out as a DID system and is pro-endo. Unfortunately, anti-endos have had success in bullying Aimkid off of social media.

But some studies have shown about 3% of the population is plural, only about half of which have DID, and I believe the real numbers are actually much higher.

As plural acceptance increases, it's only a matter of time before you start seeing some of your favorite celebrities come out as plural.

It's only a matter of time before plurals have their equivalent of "The Puppy Episode" where Ellen came out as lesbian on television.

I can't predict when this will happen. Things like that tend to come out of the blue. But I do believe it will happen and when it does, plurality will suddenly be pushed to the mainstream conversation.

This is Going to Quickly Become a Left-Right Issue

When plurality hits the mainstream, conservatives will fiercely oppose it. Because of the way reactions tend to work, that means liberals are going to fiercely defend it. Each side feeds into the other and results in more support in liberal spaces and more opposition in conservatives ones.

I'm not going to sugarcoat this. If you stand by bigotry in these liberal spaces, especially queer spaces, you're going to find your social circle shrinking unless you keep that bigotry to yourself. When this is part of the national conversation, you will find yourself cutoff by people you care about and spaces you previously would be accepted.

Intolerance to plural systems of any kind will no longer be tolerated. There will be no safe space for hate in those communities.

And with the overwhelming science and doctors supporting the existence of non-disordered and endogenic systems, with the support of the psych community, anti-endos will soon find themselves regarded the same way we regard anti-vaxxers and flat-Earthers in liberal spaces.

A Choice to Make

You're not doomed. This isn't hopeless. You can make a change.

System medicalism is The Titanic but you have life rafts you can hop on before it goes down.

Plenty of anti-endos have changed their ways. But if you stay on your current course, this is where it ends. You either maintain your bigotry, as you're cast out of queer communities, watching endogenic plurality infiltrate your favorite media, and with therapists who are pro-endo, all while your own hate and isolation destroy you...

Or you can choose to be better before it's too late. Because the longer you maintain your hate, the more people you hurt along the way, the more guilt you'll carry with you after you break away.

Or... I guess there's a secret third thing. A worse choice. You could join with the Rod Drehers of the world, because the Alt-Right will probably accept you gladly if you're willing to toe the party line, and turn against both fellow systems and the queer community.

I'm sure they would love systems with internalized pluralphobia who speak out against a plural future that they can hold up as examples, the same way they love homophobic gay people like Milo Yiannopoulos.

If that's what you want to be, I suppose that's an option too. 🤷‍♀️

If you do make right choice...

You can find acceptance. Your past mistakes won't be held against you.

Admitting that you're wrong and choosing to be better can be scary. But that's no excuse to continue down a path of hate.

If you do choose to make a change, we can build a plural future together. One where we won't have to hide or fear discrimination for being plural.

One where future plural children won't have to grow up feeling crazy and hating themselves and their headmates for being different, and they'll have real people to look up to who have been where they are.

My Part...

For myself, I'm going to do everything I can to push this future forward, to help bring it about. This future is an inevitability. But the more of us that spread awareness of the science and what's happening, the sooner it gets here.

But with or without my involvement... anti-endos... you're losing. Bit by bit, every single day, and you don't even realize it because you're surrounded by an echo chamber that refuses to see the reality of what's happening.

But We see it. Dr. Lifshitz sees it. Even conservative Rod Dreher sees it.

And you are so far behind in this battle that there's no way you can possibly prevent what is coming. Maybe you could have stopped it had you started paying attention half a decade ago. But you've walled yourselves off from anything that contradicted your worldview and that willful ignorance has left you playing catch-up.

Your echo chamber will tell you that you're safe to keep being who you are, to keep spreading hate and hurting innocent people because of what we are. That the future I promise won't happen. They'll tell you to ignore all the signs.

But the reality is that the world is changing and the future is plural, and you are going to have to make a choice.

I sincerely hope you will choose the right thing. But for those who don't...

Well, like I said, it's up to you. I can't stop you from choosing hate. I'm not going to try to make you into a better person either. That's up to you.

But I think you at least deserve to know what's happening and how it will end up affecting you if you don't make a change.

[dn-838]

In defence of Undertale Yellow, how it can work with Undertale’s canon

So, I have seen a lot of debating recently on Undertale Yellow and whether or not it fits what we know already about the lore in Undertale. Of course Flowey’s presence in the mod is the primary thing that has sparked this debate, with many believing that he can’t have existed at the same time as the Justice Soul and that it is a major hole that breaks the continuity of Undertale. I however, as someone who has spent way too much time with Undertale and has vast knowledge about even the most obscure of details in the game, disagree. I believe that Undertale Yellow fits the original games canon well… maybe a bit too well, and I am here to give my own arguments against the things that I commonly see people say doesn’t fit the original game’s continuity. This may contain a few spoilers for Undertale Yellow, so unless you’ve already seen all 3 routes or for whatever reason don’t care about having the game spoiled, don’t read further until you are done.

Argument 1: all the Souls were already collected by the creation of Flowey and the amalgamates

Okay so this one I don’t really have much to say about. Yes Flowey and the Amalgamates were created using the SOULs of some of the collected humans, however it’s never specified that it was from 6 humans, all that’s made clear is that Asgore did have human SOULs (in plural) that were used in the experiment.

Argument 2: the timeline doesn’t match up

The timeline has always been a confusing topic among the Undertale community. While the most likely estimate of the gap between Chara and Frisk falling is 100 years due to what Sans tells us during his date.

There are a few reasons for us to believe that the gap is much smaller, especially considering the weird nature of the Deltarune timeline and the supposed grudge Chara seems to have against Snowdrake in Genocide (who is stated to only be a teenager).

However, no matter how you view the timeline, unless you have specific dates in mind for things like when Gaster was the Royal Scientist and when the fall of Integrity-Justice happened, or think the gap was REALLY short, Undertale Yellow doesn’t really contradict it too much. The game itself is meant to take place just a year before Undertale, with all the same characters existing in similar positions to how they do by the time of Undertale, however we never encounter them due to being on a completely different path that takes us to very different parts of the underground, being why they don’t behave like they encountered a human before in Undertale.

Integrity is a bit more interesting, because it can vary massively depending on how you view the lifespans of the Ketsukane’s, Starlo (Starlo won’t be important to this, but I mention him since he was childhood friends with Ceroba) and Dalv. It is strongly implied that as a kid, Dalv was best friends with Kanako, and was attacked by the Integrity human some point before the games events. At first you’d assume that this was all not meant to be long before the events of the game, however, Integrity was killed by Axis in UTY, a robot that was being worked on by Chujin back when the Steamworks were still in operation, which we can assume was long before the events of the game due to the state of the Steamworks itself and the fact it is stated to have been used as the source of all power in the underground, which would mean it would likely have shut down around the period that the CORE was first put into operation, so all the way back when Gaster was still the Royal Scientist, whenever you think that was (Axis wasn’t sent to kill the human until after Chujin was fired from his position, however due to the way Axis is locked up and deactivated before we wake up the Steamworks, we can assume he was shut down with the rest of the facility). On top of all this Dalv is shown to be a lot older than he presumably would have been when he was attacked by Integrity, and with him being a Vampire, you could say that he aged that much at a slower rate than a human would, with the Ketsukane’s also aging slow, 2 of them being Boss Monsters and one of them being a 9 tailed fox. We know that some monsters do likely age at very different rates due to monsters like Gerson who lived through the war.

So to give the whole timeline, basically, Chujin worked in the Steamworks and made Axis back before or during Gaster’s time as the royal scientist. After several failed prototypes that eventually got Chujin fired, Axis was sent to chase down and kill Integrity. He managed and Chujin kept the Soul hidden and over the span of years recorded a few tapes for what he had planning, meanwhile Dalv, who was previously attacked by Integrity, went into hiding, locking himself into a mostly dark and unknown part of the ruins. At some point when Alphy’s became the Royal Scientist, Chujin started to mentor Martlet, which led Martlet to enter the True Lab and get some strange serum. Eventually Chujin died around a year or two before UTY, revealing his hidden tapes to Ceroba, which Kanako overheard. This led to Ceroba attempting to inject Kanako with the Integrity soul, leading to Kanako falling and being donated to Alphy’s, and her of course then becoming an amalgamate.

Argument 3: Asgore killed all 6 of the other humans

Okay so this one is interesting, because Undyne does imply that humans before Frisk did make it to Asgore, with her saying that “no human has ever made it PAST Asgore” rather than “no human has ever made it TO Asgore”

The thing is, that other humans reached Asgore is all this really does imply, it doesn’t necessarily mean all humans made it to Asgore. You could argue that most of them died to Asgore, with Integrity and Justice being the only exceptions. If you really want to stretch you could even say that this line was actually just another attempt from Undyne to make Asgore sound like a powerful and threatening force (since she tries to make him out like that quite a bit in her fight, such as by saying that killing us is an act of mercy right after this), although I find this unlikely.

There is another line of dialogue that I sometimes see used to try and prove that Asgore killed all 6, and while it’s not used close to as much, I’ll still just quickly clear it up.

This doesn’t really mean that much, all it’s saying is that all the humans that leave the ruins inevitably die. She likely wouldn’t know any details on their deaths do to her isolation, and even if she had some knowledge she would probably still place the blame on Asgore due to his part in waging war and coming up with the plan to kill 7 humans in the first place.

Argument 4: The introduction of new incredibly powerful characters makes no sense

Okay, so this is a weird one, however the explanation for it is fairly simple. Nobody in UTY compares to the original Undertale cast when it comes to how “powerful” they are. We struggle so much against the opponents we face as Clover because well… Clover is much weaker than Frisk, bosses like Ceroba and Axis pale in comparison to Undyne and Mettaton, they just seem much harder since we are playing as a human with much less determination than Frisk. In Pacifist Clover fights a depressed fox lady, meanwhile Frisk fights a literal god; in Neutral Clover goes through a struggle fighting through Flowey’s mind after having his Soul absorbed, meanwhile Frisk holds on against Flowey with 6 Souls until those Souls rebel; and in Genocide Clover takes some time to finally destroy Axis, the failed prototype that got Chujin fired, meanwhile Frisk atomised Mettaton NEO, The greatest invention of the Scientist who was selected to replace Gaster, in a single blow.

The only Undertale Yellow character that I’d say surpasses any character in Undertale would of course be Zenith Martlet, but even then LV 19 Frisk would mop the floor with her, while LV 19 Clover had to go through a lot of effort to beat her, only ever managing to surpass Flowey in Determination after doing so. At LV 20 both Clover and Frisk have massive boosts from LV 19, however Frisk is far stronger, having awakened Chara and caused the destruction of everything, while Clover just destroys Asgore with a super laser blast directly from their Soul and leaves.

Argument 5: miscellaneous

Just to clear up any further confusion, I’ll give quick explanations for some more minor points that I have encountered

Nobody in the original Undertale apart from Flowey, Toriel and Asgore meets Clover, so the other monsters in Undertale acting like they had never met one makes sense.

Flowey not just stealing Clovers Soul is explained well by the game itself. He plans to, however he doesn’t get the chance in Pacifist; sees that we couldn’t surpass Asgore in Flawed Pacifist; steals our soul but is unsatisfied with the outcome and resets in Neutral, and gets gunned down in Genocide.

Toriel believing that it’s been a long time since a previous human fell when she sees Frisk in Undertale doesn’t mean much, she mostly lives isolated in the Ruins, with the other monsters being too afraid to speak with her, considering this and just generally how much seemed to have happened within that year, time could have felt much slower. Alternatively you could argue that the 6 humans all fell within months of each other, and that a years gap is a long time in comparison to the rate the first 6 fell (or 5, since she says the exact same thing to Clover).

Both Flowey and Clover using file 1 at the end of Genocide doesn’t fit what we know about save files no, however I feel it is a little nit-picky to use it as a definitive reason to discredit how well UTY fits into canon, after all the only thing you’d need to do is change the numbers and this would be fixed.

The Gunsmith having been born a week before the Human Vs Monster war doesn’t go against anything we already know. As stated before, we know that at least some monsters like Gerson do live for a very long time.

Flowey having more determination than Clover also doesn’t break anything. Flowey was injected with DT from 5 human Souls. The thing is that Frisk was special when it came to the amount of determination they had.

Unlike with most of the other cast, nobody in Undertale actually indicates that Flowey never met a human prior to Frisk.

Chujin being a boss Monster doesn’t contradict what we know about Boss Monsters. We know that the Dreemurrs are boss monsters, but nothing tells us that they are the only boss monsters.

Argument 6: the nature of the SAVE files contradicts Undertale Yellow

Here we go, the penultimate argument I shall argue against. Never did I expect for this obscure piece of Undertale lore to be the bane of my existence but here we are. For a short time I thought that this could not be countered, only after I had walked away from a discussion completely defeated did the pieces finally start to come together, and now finally… I have an explanation.

First things first, let’s look at the 10 save files. The files go from file 0 to file 9. We know that File 0 likely belongs to Chara due to it being the one that we save with in Undertale, and that file 9 belongs to Frisk since it works as the games Autosave/Checkpoint system. File 8 would then of course belong to Flowey, not just because it’s the one just before Frisks but because File 8 appears in your files after you beat Omega Flowey to mark your completion of a Neutral run, likely implying that his previous SAVE was of course when he was Omega Flowey. Flowey also uses files 2, 3 and 6 throughout the Omega Flowey battle, and since Toriel implies that other humans who fell were also able to save and reset, we can assume that 2-6 likely belonged to previously fallen humans.

Now the only files that need an explanation are file 1 and file 7, and I’ve seen 2 interesting theories for this. The first is that file 1 belongs to Asriel after he took Chara’s Soul, and the other is that file 7 belongs to Lemon Bread since they know what a SAVE point looks like and tries to trick us with it; but the thing is, which one of these are true? Surely it can’t be both since we know one needs to belong to the 6th… okay I’ll cut that out you already know I’m going to say they are both true.

So for Asriel having file 1, he absorbed Chara’s Soul so should have all of their determination and therefore should also have overtaken their ability to SAVE. Of course it’s unlikely that Asriel would have made anything out of it since the idea of saving and loading was fairly alien to Flowey, however that doesn’t necessarily rule out the possibility that Asriel didn’t SAVE or at least have a file created.

Lemon Bread is a bit more complicated, and we are gonna need to look into the order of events within the True Lab to try and work this out. Firstly, we need to look at some of the true lab entries.

ASGORE asked everyone outside the city for monsters that had "fallen down."

Their bodies came in today.

They're still comatose... And soon, they'll all turn into dust.

But what happens if I inject "determination" into them?

If their SOULS persist after they perish, then...

Freedom might be closer than we all thought.

This is entry 6, when the fallen down monsters are given to Alphy’s and have Determination injected into them.

I've chosen a candidate.

I haven't told ASGORE yet, because I want to surprise him with it...

In the center of his garden, there's something special.

The first golden flower, that grew before all the others.

The flower from the outside world.

It appeared just before the queen left.

I wonder...

What happens when something without a SOUL gains the will to live?

This is entry 8, Alphy’s gets a hold of a golden flower that she injects Determination into.

“One of the bodies opened its eyes.

This is entry 13, when the fallen monsters started to regain consciousness, 7 entries after they were first delivered.

Seems like this research was a dead end...

But at least we got a happy ending out of it...?

I sent the SOULS back to ASGORE, returned the vessel to his garden....

And I called all of the families and told them everyone's alive.

I'll send everyone back tomorrow. :)

This is entry 15, by this point all the monsters that had fallen down were awake, and the still not conscious Golden Flower was still just a Flower, being returned alongside the human Souls.

no No NO NO NO NO NO

This is entry 16, the fallen down monsters started to melt together and create the amalgamates.

the flower's gone.

Finally, we have entry 18, when Alphy’s noticed that the Flower seems to have disappeared from the garden, 10 entries after she first selected it.

So, why are these entries so important? Well we know that to have ever held the ability to SAVE, Lemon Bread would have to had held the right amount of Determination before Flowey first became conscious in the garden, and did they? Yes, yes they did. Flowey could have awakened anywhere in the timeframe between entry 15 when he was returned to entry 18 when Alphy’s noticed him gone, however all the fallen down monsters that were injected with Determination were already awake by this point, and therefore prior to Flowey waking up, they would have been the most determined beings in the underground, perhaps with enough determination that whichever monster happened to have the most was able to SAVE. The time that they would have had with the ability would also have at least been for longer than Asriel had it since Flowey can’t have awoken until after a couple entries later at the bare minimum. Of course since this follows the idea that Lemon Bread had the SAVE ability since they knew what a SAVE point looks like, we can assume that the monster in question would have been Shyren’s sister, since I doubt that the Moldbygg and Aaron that also make up Lemon Bread would hold such a role.

Argument 7: Flowey’s backstory

I really thought I was done with this infuriating Flower, but it appears not. For there is a single hole I need to clear up… Flowey’s Genocide speech. Of course this should be fairly simple to clear up-

Ah… well okay this makes things interesting. If Flowey didn’t know where the Souls were stored then that would make it very hard to believe that Flowey ever encountered a human before Frisk since if that were the case then Flowey would definitely have an opportunity to sneak by and see where they are hiding, however this is not what the dialogue actually means. Flowey knew where the Souls were, he sneaks in to steal them in Neutral while we are talking to a defeated Asgore, his only issue was that he wasn’t able to get them out without Asgore. In repeated Neutral runs he still just waits until we are distracted with Asgore to take the Souls, and in Pacifist he takes them while the main cast are all distracted which again is when the canisters are open and available.

On a last note, here’s some dialogue that actually helps the idea that Flowey encountered another human.

It’s made clear all throughout the underground that humans have far greater Determination than monsters, and while you could argue that Flowey was just overconfident in his abilities, it’s still fairly strange that Flowey would still find a human having the DT to overwrite his abilities something special, unless of course he’d encountered a human previously who wasn’t able to do as much.

Conclusion

So, that’s about all I have to say, honestly I’m just glad to be done with it. This was a lot of work, and I’m excited to see this post which I’ve been working on for 3 days get completely dismantled almost immediately. Anyways, wish everyone reading a good day and goodbye!

[misscammiedawn]

Hi, I hope this is okay to ask. There seems to be so much misinformation and I am kind of… profoundly confused. Can someone have headmates and/or be a system without having DID? Are they the same or do these all mean different things?

Hello, anon.

DID is just a diagnosis based on clinical observation. It's not observable in any scans and will not show a stripe on a saliva test. It just means that a doctor who is qualified to do so has given you a diagnostic screening and believes that it is your diagnosis.

It's also a remarkably weird one as it's simultaneously a lifelong affliction born in childhood which never goes away, but the diagnostic criteria for it is no longer satisfied when treatment has reached a point of which the symptoms are managed.

I truly wish there were better advice for you than to explore what you need to explore in your own life and assess your access to mental health care and whether or not you feel it would benefit you. When we received our diagnosis it was in association with our ongoing care for emotional breakdowns that were crippling us and erratic life destroying issues with maintaining relationships and a stable sense of personal identity.

The question should be less "do I need DID to have a system" and more "do I benefit from being diagnosed and treated?" and I can't answer that for you. The best I am able to speak on this question is to say not to think about it. It's an unimportant question in the grand scheme of things.

My personal experience with dissociative disorders is that my condition was hidden from me for much of my life and diagnosed and treated as CPTSD for most of my life, BPD after my transition and finally recognized and treated as DID in recent years. I think coming out as transgender and realizing that persistent feeling of "I feel like I am playing the role of [legal name]" did not go away was a good signal. We had a reason to feel like that prior to transition. We did not afterwards.

My personal belief on the formation of my condition is that in early childhood our environment was not safe and stable and we were unable to create a stable personality based on applied patterns that a child between the ages of 0-6 use to achieve their needs (attention, nourishment, protection etc) and so with no stable "core" personality state we developed a number of personality states that we shifted through to meet our general survival needs based on environment and those in turn became the foundation for a system of "parts" who make up the whole of me.

What I described there is an understanding that was reached in therapy based on The Theory of Structural Dissociation, itself a controversial piece of text (one of the authors disbarred for mistreatment of patients).

That all in to say I can only speak to my personal experience and my personal understanding of DID, which is based on our evolving understanding of the topic both as a system ourselves, as students of the medical dogma being released and as a patient of our current therapist.

These views, opinions and perspectives may and can change on a dime. There are a disturbing number of clinicians who do not believe chronic dissociative disorders lead to plurality in any regard. There are those in support communities who believe the number of people who are undiagnosed but experience plurality is as high as 15% of the global population.

Frankly. I'm not qualified to speak to anyone's experience beyond my own. All I can do is put out what we see and hear and feel and hope that it provides comfort for anyone out there who is as lost to themselves as we were to ourselves.

So can a person experience plurality without it being DID? Does every person who experiences plurality without trauma actually have a repressed and unacknowledged backstory?

It's none of my damned business.

Every person has their own story and their own baggage, much of which lays beneath the surface. We cannot fully know the depths of The Other and that is a scary thing because it means that someone could look at a person's lived truth and reject it...

And so the answer is simply "I do not know."

I can't possibly know.

I just care about people and believe them when they say things.

[bell-system]

Its been said before (and probably more eloquently) but I do think any discussion about how self-dx is "problematic" is meaningless until the systems under which diagnosis exists stop being ableist, racist, fatphobic, etc-- I would much rather, for example, that a person identify with the plural community and then later decide that they're a singlet, than have more parts of the plural community face trauma, oppression, prejudice, humiliation, etc from doctors just to 'prove' they're 'really plural'.

Setting that to the side-- I'll get back to it later-- the current process of medical diagnosis itself often includes people who are ostracized from parts of the plural community online.

The main schism between people who are anti self-dx and those who are not (at least as far as plurality goes...) is that those who are against self-dx have a misguided belief that there is a criterion for diagnosis that a patient must have early childhood trauma-- a criterion not present in the DSM in the first place. Though the 'early childhood trauma' theory of dissociation is the most supported and most likely theory for disordered, diagnosable plurality, that doesn't mean that that theory will in all cases be correct, in the same way that a similar chain of events could happen to two people and leave one traumatized for life and the other fine after a few months.

Its true that in many cases, disordered plurality has potential correlation with traceable traumas from early childhood, but that doesn't mean that all cases of even disordered plurality specifically come from trauma (and, of course, since disordered plurality comes often with memory problems, even if there IS a trauma it is likely the memory of it is obscured or inaccessible, and the people who are now experiencing plurality-related distress may not believe that trauma exists), and this is something reflected in the fact that the DSM only looks for current symptoms and experiences, and does not question the traumatic history of a patient whatsoever in screening for dissociative disorders.

Its provable that non-disordered forms of plurality exist (integration - both into a single being, and the more modern definition of the memory gaps and conflicts that cause distress being reduced), whether those forms come after a period of disordered plurality, or if, in some cases, a collective never experiences a clinically significant amount of distress, its scientifically and anecdotally recognized that these forms of being exist.

It is also true that many forms of plurality (even forms that do cause significant distress) are difficult or impossible to discover or diagnose. In many cases, the dissociation experienced by nature is intended to hide/conceal itself as a form of protection, which categorically makes it significantly more of an ordeal to discover-- and even more of an ordeal to have clinically recognized to the degree of an official diagnosis.

Going back to my original point about the system of diagnosis, its also objectively true that massive parts of medical institutions (psychologists and psychiatrists, doctors and other health practitioners, and insurance companies) have implicit and explicit bias against so-called "rare" or "severe" disorders, behaviors, and experiences. Even if there were a hypothetical person who fit EVERY criterion for DID in the DSM, and experienced a provable trauma at an early stage of development that could be connected directly to their experience of dissociation, and was conscious of their dissociation, there's still many cases where they would be completely reasonable to not pursue a diagnosis-- because of prejudice in the medical system, fear of reduced chances of employment, societal ostracisation, a lack of safety in their situation of living, the desire to not be institutionalized-- I could go on.

The truth is; we don't know enough to say for certain the cause of plurality in every or even any case, and it seems much more valuable at least to me to create a community built on a basis of curiosity about different modes of existence than it is to create one functioning on a system of suspicion and gatekeeping.

[fqllx]

my experience with plurality as a questioning system 🪽

This like my first time posting on tumblr so apologies if this is a bit messy, but I needed to get these thoughts out there. After a few years of hyperfixating on DID, i’ve started to question if I may aftually be plural.

Edit: I shortened this down so it’s a bit more readable.

When I think about the symptoms of DID and compare these to my experiences it’s like having a realization of… oh, these things weren’t actually normal. I don’t have black out amnesia, but definitely memory issues. I can’t remember early childhood other than mostly traumatizing moments. I also have an unstable sense of self all the time, sometimes feeling like a whole other person.

For years I kind of brushed all this off because I could explain them away. Memory issues could just be my adhd, my sense of self could just be because I have varying interests, and the constant disassociation could just be its own thing. But I keep reading people’s experiences with DID, OSDD, whatever, and it all sounds so familiar that it makes my stomach hurt. Every time I have *most* of the symptoms they describe or have felt the things they have.

The one thing keeping me from identifying this as actual plurality is the fact I can’t recall ever hearing an alter. I daydream so often that it’s hard to tell if any odd thoughts I’ve had are just my imagination. The closest I get is more so a physical feeling, like there could be another presence hiding itself. Yet I can never really hear anyone else. Sometime’s I’ll ask a question like “is anyone else here?” And I’ll get a yes, but for all I know I’m just telling that to myself, because it’s the answer I expect. I feel like I’m pretending to be an alter.

Honestly, I dunno. An actual diagnosis is out of my budget right now, but please realize I’m not expecting to be diagnosed by tumblr users. I just wanted to see if any systems or those questioning could relate to my experiences.

- Felix

[tansu-bomb]

Musings on the most important and least explained pivotal conflict between Jin Seol-Ran & Choi mage + parallels 200 years ago vs now

1. A severe drought dried up Lake Gyeongcheondaeho.

2. Jin Seol-Ran performed a sacred dance & used her divine energy so the energy from the skies flows down to earth as rain; and with the rain came ice-stones (plural).

3. Choi mage extracts ice-stone(s) from the lake, and experiments with it - thus documenting the Alchemy of Souls book that much later, Shaman Choi (likely his grand-daughter), attempts to save during Jang Gang’s raid & gets burnt in the process.

4. All across Daeho, folks kill each other to obtain the ice-stone(s) and use it primarily for soul-shifting as they please, thereby creating the great chaos.

5. Jin Seol-Ran cannot end the chaos by herself so she chooses to partner with Seo Gyeong - the one with King’s Star energy - and puts an ice-stone into his body (just like she much later does with Jang Uk, the next King’s Star) thus turning him into the most powerful weapon.

6. Jin Seol-Ran and Seo Gyeong use their complementary powers to end the chaos — she by using her divine power to track down ice-stones and he by using his muscle power to single-handlely squash armies (like Cho Yeong & Jang Uk do towards the end).

7. Up until then, folks likely physically possessed the ice-stone but not anatomically like Seo Gyeong (courtesy: Seol-Ran), but Choi mage - the mastermind behind AOS - probably figured out a way to do so as well. (Even Shaman Choi and Jin Mu were unable to accomplish this)

8. As it would’ve been difficult to kill Choi mage who also possessed the ice-stone, Jin Seol-Ran must’ve trapped his soul in the Gwido barrier (along with others). Much later, when Seol-Ran/Cho Yeong enter Gwido again, all soul-wraiths fear her but one chases her with vengeance.

9. In one of the flashbacks, Jin Seol-Ran and Seo Gyeong are shown standing shoulder-to-shoulder and extracting the power of the ice-stone that Choi mage possessed. Seol-Ran most likely turned that ice-stone into one that seeks (not gives) energy and left him to die a painful death in Gwido (like Cho Yeong does Jin Mu).

10. In return, the Choi mage must’ve cursed Jin Seol-Ran and Seo Gyeong that they too will turn into soul-shifters - in this life or the next. This curse is most likely what plays out 200 years later for both Jang Uk & Cho Yeong both of whom are Seo Gyeong and Jin Seol-Ran’s supposed reincarnations.

11. Seo Gyeong falls in love with Jin Seol-Ran; but most likely Seol-Ran is already a married woman with a heir in tow (likely Jin HoGyeong’s mother) coz, by the time great chaos ends, Seol-Ran is injured and about to die — most likely due to overusing her divine powers that accelerated her aging —and we know the Jin family line continues. That makes theirs an impossible, forbidden romance on multiple fronts (which comes full circle with Jang Uk & Cho Yeong finally defying fate and falling in love twice)?

11. After the great chaos ended, Jin Seol-Ran likely removed the power of ice-stone from Seo Gyeong as well (but unlike Jang Uk who died and had his soul resurrected only due to the ice-stone), Seo Gyeong lives on even without it.

12. At this point, only one final ice-stone remains which Seo Gyeong wished to use to protect Seol-Ran but Seol Ran, who sees future, about the fire bird and the Choi mage’s curse, chooses to attach her soul to the ice-stone itself (which Jang Gang & Jin HoGyeong think resurrected a dead baby Jin BuYeon)

The Choi mage’s curse, I think, is critical for what follows.

13. When Jin Seol-Ran’s memories & divine powers start to come back (likely around ages 8-10) while she is resurrected in dead Jin BuYeon’s body, she likely figures out that A) Choi U-tak (the grand-son of Choi mage) is her father (the blasphemy this is; ties perfectly to Chois wanting revenge against Jins above all), B) Jang Uk, the King’s star, was born through AOS, and C) Jin Mu destroyed Cho Yeong’s family.

14. While Jin HoGyeong and Jang Gang engineered BuYeon’s birth star, Cho Yeong was likely naturally born under that same birth star - the one that’s destined to accompany the King’s star. The King’s Star and the accompanying star are likely binary stars — stars whose gravitational fields are interconnected (example: Alcor/Mizar or Vasishta/Arundathi binary stars in Ursa Major).

14. Seol-ran attempts to fight fate & masterminds the attempt to find the ice-stone with Jin Mu and Choi U-tak — to once and for all destroy the ice-stone and the greedy men — in one ago. Despite her supreme divine powers, she fails given how weak she physically is having been reincarnated in a baby who’s been dead in the womb for atleast few hours if not few days (plus she’s only 10 years old and has overestimated herself).

15. There is no way Seol-ran can now go back to Jinyowon coz she has gambled and revelaed her supreme divine powers — and if she goes back, she’ll certainly meet death at the hands of her own family (Jin Mu) and Choi family (Jin U-tak). So she bides time in Sari village to let future unfold so she can interject at a more optimal time. (Seol-Ran says this at the end; that seeing into the future, one can cleverly interject. While one may not change the pre-fated outcome as she painfully learns, she knows optimal points to interject at to tightly control the flow of events & minimize damage)

16. The Choi mage’s curse of her turning into a soul-shifter is also likely the biggest reason why Seol-Ran lures in and traps Cho Yeong’s soul in the first palce coz Yeong’s compatible and immense energy would be useful for their survival when they’d both run wild (at end of S1)

17. All along S1, Jin SeolRan keeps on protecting Jang Uk & Cho Yeong. She orchestrates it all — a) allowing Yeong her power back in the lake very early on so that these two don’t drift apart, b) the exposure of ice-stone so she can inject the ice-stone into Jang Uk knowing that he’ll be hunted for his King’s star fate (she probably also knows that his death would happen at Naksu’s hands), and c) she doesn’t stop Jin Mu from causing her to run wild coz she very likely calculates that she’d be saved by the King’s star or Jinyowon or both.

17. Ultimately, Choi mage’s curse comes true — both the King’s Star Jang Uk & Seol-Ran/Cho Yeong eventually become soul-shifters — the last two that will continue to live on.

18. Seol-Ran stayed true to her purpose for 200 years and must’ve been very happy to witness that the King’s Star and his accompanying star’s love saga. An unrequited love story finally becomes requited through their reincarnations.

19. Seol-Ran’s restorative justice was to leave everything to Cho Yeong — all of her divine powers, all of the burden of protecting Jinyowon, all of her blessings to protect & live happily with the King’s star, and the responsibility to carry on the lineage of girls with unparalleled divine powers. Of course, Cho Yeong, with all the choices she makes through S1 and S2 proves herself more than worthy of this role.

[frecklenog]

after spending an evening listening to jessie gender tell me about starfield, capitalism, gender, selfhood, and ursula k leguin, i had. some Thoughts about another science fiction series; one you're probably at least somewhat familiar with if you follow this blog or watch ms gender's videos.

to start off; hey. this is partially based on my own experiences, my understanding of them, and how that lens can be applied to star trek. it's also very much inspired by the work of jessie earl, whose channel i can't recommend enough. she's funny, intelligent, kind, and an incredibly gifted writer, and she's a gift to both the star trek, trans, and "video essay youtuber" communities. show her some love!

that said, i want to start by looking at star trek. we all know the vulcans, don't we? pointy ears, green blood — spock's dad's side of the family. gifted with telepathic abilities, vulcans are practitioners of the mind meld, also called things like a mind link, probe, touch, or fusion, which is exactly what it sounds like. it allows two (or more, on occasion) sentient life forms to exchange thoughts as though they were one being.

of course, this kind of thing is common in media. steven universe has gem fusions, which should be examined from a plural viewpoint in their own right. x-man charles xavier almost routinely delves into the minds of others. but rarely does it have any lasting impact on the characters. even star trek itself falls into this, with doctor leonard mccoy not getting nearly enough screentime in the voyage home to show off what must have been the intensely strange experience of carrying spock's katra within him. (maybe that's addressed in a novelization or comic that i'm just unaware of, but regardless, i haven't seen it, and i think that's a travesty. (and if you know of a book where that gets touched on oh my god give me the fucking link now-))

there are instances of star trek mind melds having lasting effects, as discovery shows part of sarek's katra being permanently linked to michael burnham, though that could be considered an extenuating circumstance, what with her being on death's doorstep at the time of the meld. which most trek fans probably already know, and is honestly more fantastical than i care to bother reading with a plural lens. however, star trek is a fandom with nearly sixty years of history, including hundreds of books and comics from various authors and publishers. these stories are plentiful, bizzare, and sometimes outright terribly written. i don't blame anyone for not having read them all — to do so seems like a terrifying task.

but the one i want to look at right now is a particular run of the star trek: the next generation comic, published in 2000 by wildstorm comics.

the run is called perchance to dream — a lovely, flourishing name for a comic where half of the plot could be it's very own jessie gender video for how much sexual weirdness goes on (but i'll leave that to the professionals). the part we're going to focus on is that the b-plot of the run surrounds captain jean luc picard, captain of the uss enterprise-d. the comic is set after the events of the star trek: the next generation season 3 premiere, best of both worlds: part 2. in that episode, the captain had been disconnected from the borg hivemind (after being assimilated in part 1), and he returned to duty as usual at the end of the episode (though he does choose to go on leave in the following episode). it's also set after another episode from later on in season 3, — episode 23, sarek, wherein picard preformed a mind meld with sarek in order to allow the aging ambassador better emotional control, as it was being ravaged by his bendii syndrome — essentially, vulcan dementia.

the a-plot of the run isn't really important to us, i'm afraid — although it reveals to us in the second issue that worf accidentally killed a kid on another soccer team as a child. suffice to say, one of the abilities of the aliens the crew has to play diplomacy with is that they can prod into people's traumas through their nightmares. they have a lot going on. it's a comic book from 2000, what did you expect?

and, speaking of things that are easily dated, the third issue of the run brings us to the second part of today's topic.

image id: a comic book page. beginning at the top, a narration box reads: "chief medical officer's log, stardate 48503.8. lieutenant commander data, doctor selar, and i have gone through the damiano [alien] records regarding the chova. while no direct way to combat the weapon was ever developed we have discovered that certain people were immune to the chova's effects and could destroy the weapon." doctor beverly crusher is beside the narration box, depicted from the shoulders up, facing slightly to the right and saying "there has to be another way." a vulcan -- doctor selar -- is viewed from the waist up, holding a padd in her right hand and facing to the right of the page. she is saying "we have been over the records six times a piece, doctor. if there is anything to find, it is likely that we would have found it by now." data, an android designed to appear as a human with pale yellow plastic skin, is holding a book slightly behind doctor selar. his mouth is slightly open as he speaks. "i believe doctor selar is correct. this is the only course of action open to us under the circumstances." to the right of this panel is another shot of beverly from the shoulders up, this time facing to the left. her expression is stern as she says "i know, i know, it's just-- it could kill him." in the next panel. beverly is shown from the back, and captain jean-luc picard enters, saying "you sent for me, doctor?" beverly responds, "yes, jean-luc. please sit down." below this, the left panel takes most of the remaining page. this time we see captain picard from the back, while beverly faces the reader head-on, speaking first. "we've gone through the records chief du're [irrelevant one-off character from the a-plot] provided. it turns out that there was one group of people who were immune to the chova when it was first used. mpd's." jean-luc repeats "mpd's?" curiously. to the right, data is shown from the shoulders up, saying; "mpd stands for multiple personality disorder. mpd can come about through psycholo--" but beverly interrupts him; "not now, data." end id.

ah, multiple personality disorder. a term that hasn't been clinically used since 1994. these days, we call this dissociative identity disorder (did), but it's one dissociative disorder of many, which is what beverly is talking about. for whatever reason, people with this sort of dissociative plurality seem to be immune to the specific trauma nightmares induced by these aliens. (finally, some good news.)

okay, neat! so, dissociative disorders and plurality have been canonically addressed in star trek. let's see how it goes!

image id also available unbroken in alt text. image id pt 1: beginning in the top left corner, beverly is shown from the shoulders up, facing the right side of the page as she speaks. "the point is the people who are afflicted with more than one personality would destroy the chova before it could affect them. the chova was only built for one personality. mpds would literally overwhelm it." in the next panel, to the right, picard is shown from the chest up, partially obstructed by speech bubbles. facing right, he asks; "how does this help us?" beverly is also in this right panel, although from behind, and nearly completely obfuscated by speech bubbles. she answers; "well, mpd was never a common occurance, and it's almost unheard of these days.there've only been two cases reported in the federation in the last two hundred years -- and damiano [the alien planet] hasn't seen a case in the last fifty."beverly continues. "however, we do have someone on the enterprise who has the makings of a classic mpd. i'd like your permission to ask this person to volunteer to undergo a mind-meld with doctor selar in order to bring the submerged personalities to the fore."

this particular line, i take umbrage with, as dissociative disorders are a lot more common than people might think, and star trek has shown us a future as tumultuous as our own present for decades. there would absolutely be people experiencing some level of multiplicity in everyday life both within the federation and without. but, again, this was written in the 90s, i think? i don't know how long it takes a team of professionals to make a comic book. but, i digress.

image id pt 2: picard responds; "permission granted, as long as it remains on a volunteer basis. who is the officer in question?" below, the leftmost panel is larger than the right. beverly crusher is shown in profile, facing right, with doctor selar and data behind her from the chest and shoulders up. picard is on the right of the page, slightly smaller, but also in profile, facing right to contrast beverly as he listens to her speak. "it's someone who's been exposed to an especially intense vulcan mind-meld, who lived another life for thirty-five subjective years— and who had a second personality grafted onto his own for a brief period by the borg. the next panel takes the entire width of the page, and much of the height. picard is shown in the middle, standing in a purple void. around him are three other male characters shown in bust. from left to right, they are; kamin, a humanoid man bearing great resemblance to an older imagining of jean-luc picard, wearing a plain blue shirt. sarek, a vulcan with grey hair, a turquoise shirt, and a green stone amulet on a large gold chain around his neck. he is cast in shadow and his eyes are not visible. locutus, an ashen version of jean-luc picard, with about a third of his face obscured by black metal exoplating and implants that surround his right eye. tubes come off of his face and neck, trailing behind him, and a red light made to shine at his point of focus shines from the side of his head. there are several yellow narration boxes, which read as follows. "sarek of vulcan. picard mind-melded with the legendary ambassador in order to lend him strength for an important negotiation — an act that almost cost picard his sanity." "kamin of kataan. a probe sent out by kataan before their sun went nova allowed picard to live most of kamin's adult life as a way to remember his people."

oh, yeah. did... did i not mention that that happened?

basically, he was targeted by a device that beamed him into the world's most immersive vr game — kind of like the one from rick and morty? if you watched that? if you didn't, sorry for bringing it up, and if you did, ditto. but it forced picard to live out an entire life as though he'd been abducted by aliens and placed in a sims game. though, ultimately, the plot intricacies of the inner light are beside my point.

image id pt 3: "locutus of borg. quite simply, the greatest nightmare of picard's entire life. the subversion of his intellect, his will, his very self to the collective of the borg." "all three are part of him, but they do not dominate. if picard does as doctor crusher suggests, he will subsume himself in order to let the others come to the fore. for sarek, for kamin, he would be willing." "but locutus--?" the next panel takes a little more than half of the remainder of the page. a narration box in the upper left reads; "then he thinks of his first officer, counselor, chief of security, chief engineer, and all the others who have fallen victim to this vicious weapon." the rest of the panel shows two sleeping figures, both humanoid, in what is presumably sickbay. the last panel takes the remainder. a narration box in the upper left reads; "and jean-luc picard makes the only decision he is capable of making." captain picard is shown from the shoulders up, facing slightly to the left and saying; "what do i need to do?" below his speech bubble is another yellow text box, which reads "to be concluded..."

...which is how issue 3 leaves us.

fortunately, we can pick up in issue 4 with ease, since these comics are over twenty years old. i'm going to do my best to limit my use of comic pages, juuuuust in case, but once we reach the sixth page, with the credits...

image id: a two-page spread. beginning in the uppermost left corner, narration boxes read; "welcome to the mind of jean-luc picard." "'locutus' was a personality superimposed upon picard when he was taken by the borg, meant to serve as the spokesperson for that cybernetic race's ruthless assimilation of what they described as the 'authority-driven culture' of the federation." "ambassador sarek of vulcan suffered from bendii syndrome. in order to keep the effects of this devastating illness from endangering his final mission, sarek entered into a deep mind-meld with picard in order to give the ambassador emotional control and stability." "kamin was a prominent member of the community of ressik on the long-dead world of kataan. a probe sent by the kataan people allowed picard to live kamin's life for several subjective decades, although less than half an hour passed in reality." "all of these personalities have made up a part of jean-luc picard, but he remained dominant." "until now." "this is the mind of jean-luc picard." the left page is mostly taken up by a large illustration of locutus, drawn in far more detail than before. trailing off to the right are two tubes or wires, as well as a speech bubble that reads "resistance is futile." also on this page are the details of the comic title, run, issue number, writers/artists, and copyright. taking up most of the right half of the right page is sarek of vulcan, drawn in less detail than locutus, but easily recognizable. his hair is a lighter grey, he is wearing white and cream robes and an amber amulet on a thick gold ring around his neck, and he is holding up his right hand in a vulcan salute/ta'al. depicted below sarek is kamin, drawn from the shoulders up, wearing a plain white shirt with a collar. below kamin is captain picard, also shown from the shoulders up, in his starfleet uniform, and surrounded by four lights, with two on either side of him. (there is also further copyright information beside him in fine print.)

...i'm pretty sure that this analysis falls under the "commentary" part of fair use. right?

but, regardless, this is kind of a huge thing to drop in a comic that virtually no one has bothered to read. i mean, especially when, amidst the clashing of picard's plurality with the a-plot, we get this panel;

image id: a single comic panel. kamin is shown from behind, speaking to locutus and sarek within a noneuclidean space with four circular white lights shining in the distance. "what is going on?" kamin asks. "we have been subdued for too long. but now we shall dominate, as we were meant to." locutus replies. sarek interrupts. "your logic is flawed, locutus. we are all merely aspects of jean-luc picard's mind." "you may be sarek of vulcan, but we are of the borg."

sarek is able to acknowledge himself, kamin, and locutus as "aspects" of captain picard, despite picard rarely if ever sensing them or their influence. picard is being, not just implied, but explicitly stated to have a latent form of plurality, and perchance to dream depicts it in a way that strikes true to members of my own system, at times, with certain alters first making themselves known in the front already well aware of who they are, and having existed without the my knowledge due to dissociative barriers that only came down later in life.

unfortunately, because this is a star trek media, locutus ends up assimilating kamin in the headspace and forcing himself into the front. however, as he does it, he says something that does, to an extent, resonate with the experience of being one among many, for better or worse.

image id: a single comic panel. locutus is shown facing the viewer, and his chin and the top of his head are cut off by the borders of the panel. his light breaks the plane of the panel to simulate the effect that it is shining into the "camera." locutus's mouth is open as he speaks; "for too long you have suppressed us, picard. but you are of the borg."

plurality is a defense mechanism by the brain to protect against trauma. it is, from what i have seen, more common among those who are already neurodivergent, which already presents in a myriad of ways. mixing the ugly truth of trauma with the raw reality of mental illness caused by it can result in certain alters feeling as though they are being suppressed by not being allowed to front and live their own life, depending on how the system functions. admittedly it is more common in fictional depictions of dissociative disorders for these alters to simply live their own lives in secret anyway, as is the case in the marvel tv series moon knight with marc spector, steven grant, and jake lockley (along with the other possible members of their system who may or may not be present depending on the canon, but those are the main three). but, in reality — or at least my experience — this more often translates to alters making themselves social media accounts, or using services like tupperbox or pluralkit on discord, or finding other ways to more discretely express themselves, such as icon changes or status updates.

but, getting back to star trek, this is ultimately a one-off comic. so captain picard saves the day with his secret alters, ends the mind meld with doctor selar, and goes back to living his life as a singlet, ready for the people of the future to be able to easily comprehend without having to read a very specific comic run from 2000.

...right?

image id: part of a comic page. each panel takes up roughly one quarter of the page each. in the first panel, counselor deanna troi is seen standing, having just entered captain picard's ready room. picard is shown from the back, sitting at his desk. "counselor! good to see you up and about." he greets her. "it's good to be up and about." she responds. "playing some old tunes?" [picard had been playing the ressikan flute prior to her entry.] picard responds. "mmm. i wanted to make sure that i still remembered how." in the next panel, we look over counselor troi's shoulder and across the desk at captain picard. "were you worried that you wouldn't?" she wonders. "actually, yes," picard answers. "after what happened..." the third panel shows picard facing the viewer head-on from the shoulders up. he continues, "i suppose i knew intellectually how close to the surface locutus, sarek, and kamin were. but i never really thought about it. they were — memories, experiences. no different from any other. but they're much more than that." the fourth panel shows counselor troi, facing slightly to the right as she speaks. "not much more. all three of them are part of you. but the important word is you. the fragmentation was artificially induced." picard asks; "was it?"

ultimately, yes, this is a one-off comic run that isn't very well known, and i only read because i took a personal interest in the subject matter. i knew going in that it wasn't going to fundamentally change the entire fandom's understanding of captain picard, or make the star trek fandom an instant haven for systems everywhere. but, still, captain picard has his doubts, and that truly touched me when i first read it as someone who was actively reckoning with the fact that past traumas that had impacted me more than i realized.

the comic goes on for a while longer, but the last thing it has to say on the subject of plurality is this.

image id: a single comic panel. counselor troi is seated in one of the chairs in captain picard's ready room, facing him from across his desk. she is on the left, facing partially right, and he is on the right, in profile facing left. the dialogue reads as follows. picard wonders, "was it [the dissociative fragmentation of his identity] truly a creation of the mind-meld, or was it simply breaking a dam that was already cracked?" riker interrupts over the comm. "riker to picard." "go ahead, number one," picard tells him. "it's time to beam down to damiano for the ceremony, sir." "thank you, commander."

and that's it. picard asks a question, then gets called away and never tells us his answer.

i think, at least subconsciously, that might be part of why i held star trek: picard to such a high standard.

to be clear, i hadn't read this comic when the first season of picard was coming out. but i was starting to grapple with my plurality, and i used fictional media as a means to do that (as is still evidenced by things like my system simon tag). the first season of the show was centered around both picard's relationship with both his legacy and his history with the borg collective. as mentioned in perchance to dream, captain picard had previously been assimilated by the borg collective — a cybernetic hivemind from the delta quadrant that absorbed cultures and species into itself, effectively wiping out the cultural histories of entire planets, at times, in their quest to become the "perfect" life form through a combination of genetic engineering and mechanical augmentation. and, as this happened, i came to know a young man named hugh who took form within my mind. a fictional introject, or fictive, of the character of the same name from season 5, episode 23, i, borg. with his help, i grew to further understand my own plurality, and saw the potential for our stories to be told in the wake of reclamations from the borg collective. the reclamation project became a hyperfixation, and—

and then came the jurati collective.

my own system bears no connection to the jurati collective, but it is a wonder, and can be examined through a plural lens as an allegory for our own experiences as dissociatives. many consciousnesses, all working together as one towards a common goal, and willingly. after all, what is a system if not a hive within one body?

and then came picard's third season, completely ignoring her, along with all the unique perspectives that stories surrounding her might have offered in favor of what felt like a final next generation movie.

ignoring me, it felt like.

is that silly? probably. but, try as i might, i am human, and so i have a propensity for illogic — no matter how much my autistic brain craves structure and definitive explanations in order to understand the world.

i'll be honest, i'm not sure how to end this. but, sometimes i remember the time in season 6, episode 20, the chase, when picard became incredibly excited about an ancient alien society that believed people were, indeed, collectives within themselves.

"...the kurlan civilisation believed that an individual was a community of individuals. inside us are many voices, each with its own desires, its own style, its own view of the world." -captain jean-luc picard

and i realize that, with the core tenant of this series lying in the infinite diversity of both the known and the unknowable — the building blocks are already in place. star trek is a media that has grown over the decades, and hopefully will continue to do so, because there are still so many ways for new and interesting and meaningful stories to be told within this franchise.

but, if you can't summon your representation from a nostalgiabait sequel/reboot within a preexisting intellectual property... there's nothing to stop you from crafting your own story and letting loose as many systems as you like.

[countingsheepsys]

hey!! i also get super blurry during/after health problems. in fact, i'm starting to break through one of these episodes just recently. we're still too blended to know who's front most of the time, but we're getting better. i don't know if this same technique will help you, but here's what i ended up doing!

so, first, try not track or even think about 'who's front'. if you're using SP or PK or something, turn off and/or don't use that function. accept you won't know who is fronting for a while. even if there is an obvious front, don't mark it "officially" for a while - you can write it down, but overall you want to stop focusing on the question in general.

instead, focus on other signs and feelings of your plurality. depending on what you know about your headmates, that might be engaging in media or interests they like, making them in dollmakers, looking at pride things they relate to, etc. watch to see how you respond, if you feel any response - and i do mean any response, including vague feelings of "John would like this". when you get a notable response, write it down - don't think too hard about it, just write down something like "felt John around lunch when we heard his favorite song".

don't force it! it might take a while to see results. the secret here is to convince everyone inside that it's safe to be themselves whenever they're ready. take a gentle, patient, and accepting approach. remember you're all in this together. there's no way to be a system. even the blended state you're in now isn't wrong or bad - it's scary and frustrating, but it's just another way your system has tried to protect itself. no matter how long it takes, your feelings will always be real.

i wish you the best!!! - 🌙

Actually tearing up. /pos

I appreciate all of this. From the advice to the encouraging words. It also really helps to hear that it isn't just an us thing and others have had similar experiences. I will do my best to keep all of this in mind. I really hope we can pull through this soon but like you said I will do my best to avoid forcing it.

Thank you so much. /gen /pos

[morally-grey-girlbosses]

why would you ad men to a poll about girls?

I suppose I had better explain this one since I know a lot of people weren't here right since the start.

When I first opened the submissions my policy was to run qualifier polls on characters that I didn't think unequivocally qualified. While I was still operating under this policy, three male-aligned characters (Captain Jack Sparrow, Patrick Bateman, and Miles "Tails" Prowler) were submitted, and I ran qualifiers for them accordingly. After a few days of this, people began to complain, both because of the men and because of a glut of joke submissions, and I started taking my responsibilities as an officiator of this poll more seriously. I started taking more liberties with what characters I disqualified by executive fiat, including enforcing my policy of keeping this a girlboss-aligned tournament. However, the three men that were submitted had been submitted in good faith, and had passed the qualifier poll. I felt it would be a betrayal of their submitters to disqualify them now. So yes, those three men did make it in.

I'll also address the nonbinary characters now. I haven't seen as much outcry over this, but a couple people were confused so I'll clarify - it was always my intention to allow canonically nonbinary characters to enter the poll. This is because I myself, as a plural system in which certain members are nonbinary, do not mind having the girlboss label applied to me. Nonbinary experiences are a vast set of spectrums, and this can include people who use genderless, gender-neutral, or alternative-gender pronouns but still allow themselves to identify with traditionally feminine-aligned labels. It was never my intention to suggest that canonically nonbinary characters such as Chara were women, and I apologize if I failed to make that clear.

One other thing I've seen coming up vis-a-vis Jack Sparrow is the fact that he is played by Johhny Depp. I will say this only once: fuck Johnny Depp. However, Johnny Depp the actor is not Captain Jack Sparrow the character, and being a fan of one is not the same as being a fan of the other. In general, I am against excluding media from this tournament, whenever possible. I have allowed characters from Homestuck and Hazbin Hotel to enter the tournament, despite the problematic history of the creators, because I believe that people should be allowed to engage with media on a basis that does not require them to be constantly aware of its creator, and that censorship of media based on its morality is rarely excusable. The exception to this rule is that I have not allowed Harry Potter characters to be submitted, because the Harry Potter universe is not only laced with problematic elements in itself, but all proceeds from it essentially, at this point, go to fund an antisemitic, racist, transphobic political hate campaign.

Finally, I will once again remind you all that any hate in my notes will get you blocked. You have the right to disagree with others and you most certainly have the right to disagree with me. That does not give you the right to attack and insult others over anything - how they choose their vote, how they run their tournament, how they engage with media, etc. I have seen actual death threats in my notes towards submitters of characters people did not like. I shouldn't have to tell you all that I will not tolerate that, but here we are.

[circular-bircular]

Out of wonder, what made you finally be pro-endo?

I'm anti-endo, but I've been looking more at stuff from endos. I'm still on the fence, but if you're okay with sharing, what kind of stuff convinced you?

Funny enough, I actually started as a pro-endo before shifting stances. I did the whole run of pro-endo to neutral to anti-endo to neutral to pro-endo pipeline.

Originally, I was pro-endo because I was completely misinformed. It's part of why I speak out so often about the misinformation in pro-endo spaces, which I still combat to this day. Then I shifted to anti-endo over the course of multiple years, but I only stayed at that point for about 6 months if I remember correctly.

Eventually, though, I really analyzed what I believed and what I knew. This is what I settled on, after discussions with a LOT of endogenic plurals:

I found that many of them acknowledged this as a very vague, personal identity sort of experience. A surprising amount actually have told me that what they're experiencing is just made up and pretend because they find it fun or relaxing.

Many (all but a small vocal minority I've found) accept and speak out about how endogenic plurality IS very different from DID, and how plurality in of itself is an identity label over an actual condition. This group also acknowledges that DID isn't inherently "plurality," and that plurality is a label you put on yourself.

These aren't just children who are at risk of mistaking DID for endogenic plurality; these are adults who have gone to therapy, have researched DID, and who have been found and have found themselves not fitting that criteria. Moreover, the children I do find in these spaces are willing to learn, because at the end of the day, they're in those spaces to figure themselves out.

When endogenic plurality can be something as simple as, "I can hear my character's voices in my head when I write," it would be ridiculous to say, "That doesn't exist." That's a well recorded phenomenon that people have now put a label to. At the end of the day, being pro-endo just means accepting that the thing exists. If people find that the label benefits them, then that really has nothing to do with me. So, there's no harm in being pro-endo and saying, "Hey, you know your brain better than I do, if you find it helpful to say that's plurality, then you do you."

At the end of the day, it doesn't impact me so greatly that it matters more than my trauma recovery, or my career, or my writing, or literally anything. Endogenic plurality does impact my life, don't get me wrong -- it's just that, by and large, so many other things matter so much more than what a small subsect of the human race labels themselves at. I have better windmills to tilt at, yknow?

I'll also add on, a large part of why I join so many "plural" servers, despite not really vibing with the plurality label most of the time, is to help spread information. Given the state of syscourse and the state of DID vs. Endogenic v. Plural, whatever have you -- a lot of echo chambers have popped up. A lot of incidental ableism takes place in a lot of places, purposeful or otherwise. By joining these spaces, I can learn more about them (and about how I view myself), but also, I can help share more information or correct issues. In one of my favorite servers, I recently mentioned that an article someone had cited was ableist and explained why, and got to have a very short and lovely conversation of the values of reading these horrible articles to learn more about those sorts of red flags. The potential is there that this wouldn't have happened without my presence.

Hope this helps clarify some! The TL;DR really is, "It hurts absolutely nobody to accept that people view themselves in a different way." I don't have sources to prove that it exists, but that's because it's a subjective experience. I can't "prove" I'm agender -- that's a label I chose for myself, and people accept that I say I am that. Why not accept endogenic systems too?

[dreaminginthedeepsouth]

Ukraine is fighting for a way of life as much as for its territory

Russia’s domestic political repression contrasts with flourishing competition and a strong civil society

MARTIN SANDBU

President Joe Biden’s speech in Warsaw was thickly coated in the kind of idealistic rhetoric many western Europeans discreetly roll their eyes at. Of Vladimir Putin, he said: “He thought autocrats like himself were tough and leaders of democracies were soft . . . And then, he met the iron will of America and the nations everywhere that refused to accept a world governed by fear and force.” 

Certainly, there are reasons to view this channelling of Ronald Reagan with scepticism. Hypocrisy is one — the US often props up leaders governing by fear and force. Biden himself went to Riyadh as a supplicant for oil only last year. But as Europeans with experience of Moscow will tell you, the Manichean language matters. 

It matters — as Reagan’s rhetoric did — because it speaks to the experience of those directly confronting autocracy, whether Poland during the cold war or Ukraine today.It matters practically, too, because it shapes our perception of the choices we face. The western debate on the war in Ukraine tends to treat it as essentially about borders: who governs which territories. 

It has paid far too little attention to how the territories in question are governed by each side. But the difference is stark. It is most shockingly exposed in how the Russian occupiers behave. Their cruelty goes beyond the murders, rapes, mutilation and plunder by Putin’s forces. After invading Crimea, Moscow restarted its old persecution of Tatars. There is a state campaign of child abduction. There is a pattern of torture, documented by such initiatives as the Reckoning Project. What this behaviour lays bare is the wantonness of the occupiers’ violence and oppression.

It is reminiscent of nothing so much as O’Brien’s lectures to Smith in Orwell’s 1984: “How does one man assert his power over another? By making him suffer . . . Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation.” It behoves the west to realise that, as much as over who gets to rule, the Ukrainians’ fight is against this way of ruling. 

There are many other differences between the two systems. Over 30 years, the hallmarks of Ukrainian public life have become flourishing political competition and an indomitable civil society. If you recognise that in 1991, 2004 and 2014, the population’s political engagement changed Ukraine’s trajectory, you will be less surprised by its resilience against the darkness of the past year. Putin’s deft blend of propaganda and repression has politically pacified much of Russia’s population, and solidified his dictatorship.

While both the Russian and Ukrainian economies have long been rife with mismanagement and corruption, Ukraine’s pluralism has asserted itself in this sphere, too. Since 2014, Kyiv has shifted from a clientelistic dependence on Russia for natural gas to competitive European markets. Its transparency provisions for procurement are well ahead of those of some western governments. A decentralisation reform empowered local governments, with evident military benefits as on-the-ground commanders and local officials together proved in the battle for Kyiv. It could also help to ensure that future reconstruction money is well spent.

Above all, Ukraine’s policy of EU integration, from the 2014 association agreement to its candidacy for membership, involves a slow but steady march towards a rules-based, competitive market economy, the opposite of Russia’s capricious top-down model. Even corruption has manifested itself differently in the two systems. In less violent times, the joke was that Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs can both be bought, but Russian ones will do as they are told while the Ukrainians will take your money, then do as they like. Ukrainian society, and even some of its reformist governments, have strived to combat corruption. Few such efforts have emerged from Russian society, let alone its state.

Those who ignore these differences are easily lured into thinking the conflict is a matter of which population’s voices will be represented in Kyiv and which in Moscow — something surely less important than stopping the bloodshed now. In fact, the question is whether their voices will be heard at all. 

So western Europeans should not roll their eyes upon hearing Biden proclaim that “free people refuse to live in a world of hopelessness and darkness”, but realise the fighting is about more than lines on a map. EU membership, in particular, must not be seen as just an eventual prize for Ukraine’s good behaviour. Instead, it goes to the core of the war’s meaning. Ukraine’s fight is a just war — not over territory but over ways of life, and the way of life they are fighting for is ours.

[sophieinwonderland]

A Long Road Ahead And The Usefulness of the Tulpa Label

I try to be a goal-oriented person. As a long-term goal for the community, I believe we need to fight for plural acceptance. But getting there is going to be hard. We will get there, but we have to be strong, we have to be smart, and we have to be united. How quickly we can make this dream a reality will depend on our actions.

Scientific Validation

This is going to be a big point in gaining validation for all plural systems. Not just in syscourse, but from the general public. And the tulpa community is really the only non-spiritual endogenic community being studied today.

There are other very broad studies into "multiplicity" that might include endogenic systems. But these aren't specifically into endogenic systems. If the Stanford tulpa study shows neurological differences from singlet controls, this will be a huge boon for the endogenic community gaining acceptance.

I don't know for certain what the result of that study will be. It could be nothing. But right now, dismantling the narratives around tulpamancy is integral for being able to disseminate these studies and use them as evidence if they do show affirmative evidence. Because anti-endos will try to claim the science itself is offensive as a way of plugging their ears and silencing people. (I've already seen this multiple times when they're presented with studies into tulpamancy.)

And if people believe them, they'll feel uncomfortable sharing the research.

It won't matter what the science shows if nobody is out here actually sharing the science and spreading it around. It would be as good as if there were no studies to begin with.

Visibility

The tulpa community exists in this unique niche. Google "sentient imaginary friend" right now and see what you find.

All of the top results are about tulpamancy. And that's great. So many systems initially come into the tulpa and plural communities by researching imaginary companions, ourselves included. The fact that we've monopolized the concept of the sentient imaginary friend means that the tulpa community can provide a gateway to the larger endogenic and plural communities.

If a divide exists between these communities, it would severely inhibit our ability to introduce new systems to the plural community. "Thoughtform" doesn't have the same connotation. Terms like parogenic and willogenic are only going to be found after you're already searching for system communities. But the problem is that most systems don't because they don't realize that they're systems.

Obviously, the visibility for the individual system is great because it gives them words to describe their experiences and validates their headmates as real.

But it's also great for the plural community as a whole because more plurals means more normalization of plurality. Which brings me to...

Propagation

Like I've talked about before, tulpamancers have spent over a decade cultivating resources. We have the most advanced and detailed guides in the plural community for headmate creation. For prospective systems who want to create headmates, the best resources for them are tulpamancy resources. None of the alternatives offer the resources the tulpa community does, not just for headmate creation but even other plural skills like inner world immersion, imposition, switchingand partial possession.

And like with the visibility, this is not only important for the individual system but also for the community as a whole.

If someone is a prospective system, it's in the plural community's best interest to give them access to the best resources to create headmates. The more efficient the process is and the less questioning they have to do, the more likely it is they stick with the process instead of giving up.

Every prospective system who doesn't make it through headmate creation is one less plural in the world. And the more plurals there are, the more normalized plurality can become in society, and the more power the plural community will have.

Conclusion

I'm not here to tell people that they're wrong for not identifying as tulpas. That's a personal choice. But the community pivoting away from that label is not going strengthen the plural community. It will only weaken us.

Supporting the tulpa community is incredibly important to supporting the endogenic community and plural rights.

This is the strategic choice. This is the best path for the plural community on our road to acceptance.

The anti-endo and "endo-critical" community wants to divide us. They want to take away our power. They want to silence us. And they would love nothing more than for more people to be "pro-thoughtform, anti-tulpa" because they win if we're fighting amongst ourselves. They win by being able to distance endogenic systems from the science that supports us.

And know that this will only last a decade or so until a strong thoughtform community forms, and they have to make up lies to shut that community down too. It's the classic anti-endo move when they're scared.

Don't believe for a moment their promises that any labels you use won't be targeted. It's not like we haven't seen this already with anti-endos recently pretending the word "endogenic" is ableist, and pushing the repeatedly-debunked lies claiming that "system hopping" is stolen from RAMCOA survivors.

[system-comforts]

If you're comfortable doing so, could you explain the different origins of plurality a little? We were under the impression that to be disordered we had to be trauma based and then similarly that if we didn't have significant childhood trauma we had to be endo and then someone told us that's not how it works and we're very confused by terms that everyone seems to just understand. Sorry

It's alright! There are a lot of terms in the community. It can be intimidating when you first see them. We'll explain a bit about the specifics of your question. We won't list every possible origin (as there are many new terms even we aren't entirely familiar with), but we will give the basics we know. Italicized parts are highlighted points. And of course, this is largely based on our experiences: in the community, talking with professionals, etc. We encourage you to talk to systems of all types to get a better idea about more specific labels.

Disordered plurality does not always equal trauma based plurality. When people used the word disordered, they mean, "does this cause distress in my life?" For some, plurality itself causes distress. Frequent switches, internal fights, etc can cause distress. For other systems, other symptoms associated with their plurality cause distress. Maybe they have a depressed headmate, or they have amnesia between switches, or maybe headmates remember trauma and have symptoms from it. Disordered systems experience negative aspects of plurality, and in many cases want to make changes to fix them. A non disordered system would experience few negative aspects, or might feel they experience a lot of positive things from their plurality. Those positives might outweigh the bad. Maybe they feel much less lonely, or their system communicates well, maybe they've processed trauma and feel better equip to handle bad memories and tough situations.

Whether a system calls themselves disordered or not disordered is up to them. Only they can judge whether their plurality and other symptoms are interfering in their daily life. In their school, home, work life, etc.

It is difficult to judge how severe someone's trauma is. Traumas vary from singular ones to multiple, daily traumas to single event ones, traumas that occurred in childhood, teen years, adulthood-- and this still doesn't mention the different types of trauma, from physical traumas to war and community violence, to sexual trauma or medical.

Importantly, no stranger on the internet can tell you if your trauma was/wasn't severe enough to cause any sort of disorder, much less something like DID, OSDD, or disordered plurality. They don't know what it was like to experience that trauma as you, and they don't know what's been going on in your mind. Some people may tell you your trauma wasn't "severe" enough, that you must be endogenic if you don't have enough or don't remember any trauma. Those people are invalidating, and the problem lies with them, not you. If you'd like to explore your past and potential trauma history, speak to a professional about it. Find a trauma and/or dissociative disorders specialist (depending on if you seek to pursue DID/OSDD diagnosis or treatment).

As a final summary, the label traumagenic means a system created through trauma. A traumagenic system might be diagnosed with DID, OSDD, or a similar diagnosis, but this isn't always the case. Although traumagenic systems might be disordered, others may be non disordered, especially after working through and processing trauma.

An endogenic system is a system not caused by trauma. As such, this label can be fairly broad. Although an endogenic system might not be caused by trauma, the system may still be disordered. Members might not get along, and further negative symptoms might come up. -genic labels describe how a system formed, whereas a disordered label describes how a system's plurality affects them in positive or negative ways.

Deciding what label, if any, best suites you is up to you op. You know your situation better than anyone else, and it's important the label you choose feels helpful to you. Be it for finding community, making sense of your plurality, or having helpful vocabulary. We wish you the best as you explore the plural community more. Know we're always on your side no matter what your label!

-mod venus

[antiradqueer]

Trigger warning for mentions of fetishization, pro-c for non-con stuff,paras, and like very little of cult tactics, nothing with much detail I believe. Sorry if i tagged these wrongly, I'm not really good at putting trigger warnings.

Lol, im in the rq community but its like really confusing, i dont agree with some terms that fetishize people and invalidate others but some parts are i agree with too so its weird.

Im not sure if i should leave and even if i do where do i exactly go i dont really know, also some of these terms really help me to explain and express my non-human identity better, and stuff like that. (i only have id with transbody terms that go like 'wanting to have more eyes' or 'wanting to be taller' due to non-humanity, im not sure if that is wrong. Because these terms really would be okay and very nice in my eyes if they werent soo,, interwined with pro-c for non-con paras and actual fucked up shit.)

Also the community is meant to be anti-harasment, which is what i am, knowing that harassment on the internet wont really work in anyway. Though the community is extreme (this goes for antis too, both sides are very extreme which sometimes wants me to just stay in the middle of it.) And people in the rq tend to ignore the pro-harassment rq's by saying stuff like 'oh theyre not actually rq' and that on itself sounds like very problematical to me. Maybe not just me, i have no idea.

I also thought of id as transabled due to my heavy signs of BIID, (though i am not diagnosed so it might be something else, so i wont self diagnose for now since it might be a placebo effect due to my legs not functioning well in the first place) but the things it implied was just,, not something i would like to be associated with. So idk if that makes me unvalid or anything of that.

Im so fucking confused and i dont really like the fact i am so confused and kind of not fitting for both sides and being neutral seems,, y'know,, ignorant to me because both sides have their extremes and problems, so god i have no idea.

Also i did notice rq community using ways that are like,, weird, and i have experienced cult tactics and when i noticed it literally didnt go away so yeah. And that certainly something I don't want to be associated with and harms me too.

Its weird, i have no idea, wa.

Also i quite literally dont care whos origin is what, i used to be heavily endogenic but after a while i was like,, 'dude i cant change these people nor should i can encourage possible harmful things to them and the plural community' and decided to be neutral especially because i have a traumagenic system of 750+ with some alters still heavily anti-endo and some pro-endo. Which again makes me feel like i will not be welcomed elsewhere.

I have talked to a few anti-rqs about my experience but idk

Also i have multiple paraphilic disorders and Paraphilias without disorders, so im not sure if i will be affected in the other communities since of my paraphilic disorders.

So sorry this is like very long, i apologize if i made y'all uncomfortable,, it was not what i intended.

first of all, I will just repeat what I tell every radqueer that comes into our inbox: think about if you really want to be part of and support a movement that inherently supports pro-c paraphiles of all kinds, is racist, ableist and whatnot. you simply can't on one hand call yourself radqueer and on the other hand pick and choose the parts of the community you like. if you use that label, you are supporting the WHOLE community, end of the story. of course there are disgusting people in every community, but it's different with radqueers - for example, there are quite a lot if pro-c zoophiles who are also therians and claim to be part of the therian community. BUT the therian label in itself is strictly against that and will never ever accept those people. the radqueer label however is inherently supportive of and welcoming to pro-c zoos, pedos and necros. and that's the difference. that's why you are still supporting those people even if you only use the term radqueer. please realize there are alternative terms you can use for the same experiences, which are not associated with radqueers and/or are coined by folk who are openly anti radqueer and anti transid.

aside from that, being neutral or unaligned is 100% a path you can choose! always put your own comfort and safety first and if the discourse stresses you out too much, you can always just back off.

I don't have too much to add honestly, to me it seems like you are THIS close to truly realizing how horrible the radqueer community actually is - I mean, you even noticed the cult tactics. but it is on you to take the final step and get out and I promise you, if you do, you will be welcomed by us antis and other communities!

[I won't comment on the endo system part, since we don't do syscourse topics here]

[lighthouse-app]

About Lighthouse

Lighthouse (named after my system) is an app designed to help those who experience structural dissociation. This includes DID and OSDD. Alters have their own separate, private journals to write down whatever thoughts they may have. The entire system has a Communal Journal to write together about whatever is needed.

Please send us an ask for support with the site, or if you've found a bug.

www.writelighthouse.com

The System

"The Lighthouse System" is a name that's used for collaboration projects between parts. Currently, there are 7 or 8 known parts. He/Him is a universally used pronoun, it seems. Here's a link that shows the roster!

Parts will do their best to sign off on posts/asks.

Journal Template below if you'd like to make one. Skins on the site may not reflect the interests, opinions or beliefs of the Lighthouse System.

FAQ below the cut:

What’s Lighthouse’s backstory?

Our system was struggling to keep things organised in our giant binder, so our host (Dee) started to build a private “portal”. This portal had private accounts for each alter to journal and one communal journal for all of us to use. There was also DMing, chatting and appointment reminders. The only problem? It wasn’t able to be accessed outside of our singular computer, which posed an issue if something happened while away or if we were travelling. So we’ve been translating that old private portal into an online version that other people can use too. Development for the private portal started back as early as 2018, and the online version began a couple years later. The site itself wasn’t officially announced to the public until 2023. Not everything has been translated over yet, but hopefully it will be soon. This project is very much us taking what we learn in therapy and books and applying it directly to a website in hopes of helping others who might not have as easy access to trauma therapy as us.

Will Lighthouse ever have a social feature where I can share an alters page with friends? Why or why not?

First, we want to say it's awesome you feel comfortable enough to share your system. Unfortunately, the manpower needed to properly moderate, develop, and maintain a social media website/app is just not feasible for us (The Lighthouse System). If we absolutely had to do that, we would want a paid team as well as a lawyer, should the worst happen.

Who can use Lighthouse?

Anyone who thinks this kind of journalling can help them is welcome to use Lighthouse. We, The Lighthouse System, are a trauma-based system, aka a DID system. The app was originally designed just for us, so a lot of the app functions for DID. Having said that, we don't want to gatekeep who can and cannot find a use in this app. That entire topic is highly controversial, and we don't have the medical credentials to say who can and can't benefit from a resource.

Can people see what I write on Lighthouse?

Nope! What you write is encrypted and decrypted on the front end. Basically, any middleman or attacker would get a jumbled mess of gibberish instead of what you wrote, without the key to decrypt whatever the gibberish says. Not even we can read it.

Thoughts on Simply Plural, Pluralkit, Tupperbot, etc?

We encourage users to use whatever apps that they find useful to them. Lighthouse's aim is not to replace these apps, but to supplement them.