#theory sabers

[saber-life]

Lightsaber Collection

[haloangel21]

OP’s disbelief and confidence disappearing at the sight of the Star Saber sword shattering into pieces is a nice detail I hadn’t appreciated before—

[scrumpster]

Did anyone else wonder if Farmworld Finn's kids might have been babies he kidnapped while under the influence of the crown? My thought process was that his heart's desire was protecting his family, especially his baby sibling, and similar to how Simon's madness manifested in him kidnapping princesses to replace Betty, well. We see Farmworld Finn approach a wagon with a crying baby in it at the very start of Destiny. I know Jay mentions a mother at one point, but I still have to wonder. Just a theory, but I'm curious if anyone has strong evidence to either prove or disprove this?

[noworldasgoodasmine]

Friend who hasn’t read Tsukihime remake said Arceuid’s design in it is mid. See that doesn’t sit right by me even though I get why he said that (he just see’s a rich white blonde girl) cause she has such a dope soul like look at her smile how does it not melt your heart

[the-guild-codex-and-other-things]

Aaron: We were counting on you!

Saber: Well, that's your fault. ______

Tori: You're not helping!

Saber: I didn't come here to help. I came here to mock.

[voidartisan]

do u think padawan commanders ever had to do virtual learning during the clone wars

[merrysithmas]

Alright im going public with my bad opinion explanation: I hate the adoption scene because in order for it to make sense you have to ignore almost everything that the previous seasons were doing.

First, foundlings are not orphans, JON.

Foundlings are literally just children adopted by Mandalorian warriors. Something Din had made clear, he repeatedly calls Grogu a foundling and the only one who would have adopted him is Din himself. So they got that totally wrong, they do not understand how foundlings work or what they are.

Second, Din has not struggled to accept he is a father. He struggled to let himself refer to himself as a father because he has always been afraid of losing Grogu. Season 1 he isn't afraid of being his father but he doesn't let himself call Grogu his son or himself his father because hes scared he is going to lose Grogu because theyre always on the run from those hunting for Grogu.

Season 2 he is even more seeing himself as his father but he now is scared to call himself that beacuse he thinks hes losing Grogu forever to the Jedi.

Its never been Din has to learn to see himself as a father its been Din was too scared of losing Grogu so soon after calling himself as such. Season 3 he has NO reason to not already fully consider Grogu his own son.

ALSO ALSO ALSO

So theres a direct comparison to tlou here. The end of the show/game, you have Joel fully cementing himself as Ellies father by going against all odds to save her life.

Episode 3 of season 1 is that story for Din. His first interaction was to murder the droid with him and hold out a gentle finger to this baby. He is a true Mandalorian. This child is alone and needs someone to protect him. He knows what this means he knows Grogu is his foundling when he does this. Foundlings for this covert are so important.

Episode 3 has Din struggle to accept handing him over and even as hes still doing so you see his regret. He goes back for Grogu and fights to the point where he is looking at a bundled barley awake Grogu thinking they both might die here. But he looks at him knowing it was worth it.

THAT to me is Din accepting fatherhood. That is Din willing to die for the baby he considers like his own.

Ahsoka literally tells him Grogu sees him as his father and Din doesn't ever refute or question her about such a title. Cara calls Grogu his kid and Mayfield instantly knows his kid is "the little green guy".

Its insane to me that season 3 literally starts with Bo calling Din "your dad" but for the REST OF THE SEASON we downgrade to words like ward or apprentice. Even in the goddamn adoption scene he still is called an apprentice. Season 3 just pretends Din doesn't accept he is already Grogus father when we had 2 seasons showing us that he did see Grogu as his son.

But fear of losing him made him to scared to voice such a thing outloud and by the time Grogu goes with Luke he regrets not saying it earlier.

Never in a million years do I believe season 1 and 2 Din would think he has to "adopt" Grogu formally to consider himself Grogus father. He always has. That was what made Din special in this genre.

He didn't spend the story growing to see himself as a father. He was as Grogus father from minute one and decided he unquestioningly was by episode 3. His story isnt accepting fatherhood its about overcoming the obstacles that would thus take his son from him and the fear of voicing it outloud because of it.

Season 3 pulls so much nonsense by showing Paz with what is clearly a newer foundling that he sees as his son. And then has the audacity to say that it took until the end of 3 seasons for Din to come to the same conclusion about his own foundling.

Dins always been Grogus father, he's always seen himself as such and thats what made their bond so special.

Also again, JON. Foundlings do not stop being foundlings. They are always a foundling because a foundling literally is a child adopted by Mandalorians. Jango didn't stop being a foundling because he was adopted by Jaster. No being adopted is what MADE him a foundling.

Like, just no understanding from Jon or Dave about why everyone but Din called them father and son. And no understanding of what Mandalorian foundling culture even fucking is. Formal adoption doesn't exist like that beacuse thats dumb. You take in a child, and you ARE their parent. Thats it.

It's not the biggest or most egregious fuck up of the season, but it makes me mad because now I have to pretend that THIS was the moment Din fully accepted fatherhood. Not when Grogu was cradled in his arms as they were surrounded about to die, but maybe it was okay because at least he did everything he could to save his child and they would be together.

So yeah. Thats why I hate the one scene everyone in the fandom apparently adores, whoops ✌

Ooh good point! I didn't see this in my ask box. Yes this is just another thing to add to the Fuckery of season 3. I did think it was incredibly odd for Din to have to publically adopt Grogu after he was already a foundling and Din was already OBVIOUSLY his caretaker and parent figure. They also totally ignored the traditional Mandalorian adoption ritual in Mando'a - the Gai bal manda.

Also the Armorer literally tells Din to his face he is "as Grogu's father" until he comes of age or is returned to the Jedi in TBOBF (the last time the Armorer was a character and not a Faux Katan plot device lackey RIP). So that ends the necessity yet again of that scene and proves it was only added to spoon feed the GA who didnt watch TBOBF.

But it goes to show in this season of alleged exploration of MANDO LORE AND CULTURE we yet again got absolutely nothing, confusion, doubling back, and bullshit plain and simple.

[drunk-on-starlight]

Wait Cal also does the same sort of shoving activation motion with his lightsaber that Kylo does. I am connecting these dots

[corvidcall]

i know this is not the primary thrust of your gist but (and i say this as an ardent Blades in the Dark enjoyer) FUUUUUUUCK are the Blades harm rules punishing and they are the first to get modified in every other FITD i've seen and i don't think John Harper realizes that Doskvol needs difficulty sliders. then again he also doesn't realize that Kickstarter backers need promised rewards so :/

I enjoy a lot of the mechanics of BitD, and I love the setting and the general vibe but its just waaaaaay to punishing for me to actually really get into. I think I've only played it twice (in two separate one shots) and it just... it Feels Bad to play, for me. There are people who enjoy failure in games, and I really am not one of them. The fact that it's so hard to succeed in BitD really makes me feel like... you know, why even bother playing? The mechanics of this game make me feel bad because I never seem able to do any of the things I feel my character ought to be able to do. Maybe instead of constantly failing, I could just... go home and take a nap instead of playing a game. At least then I wouldn't feel so embarrassed by how little I could accomplish, and I wouldn't feel like I was constantly being punished for daring to try.

And imo if your game makes me feel like that, there's something wrong! At least for me, it means it's not gonna be a game I go back to. Had a similar problem when a guy I knew tricked me into playing Mage: The Awakening. Couldn't make hide nor hair of it and it just made me feel bad and stupid every time I tried to do anything.

[i-want-men-and-attention]

Crack Theory: Red Dragon(and others)

 My theory is that:

Saber Faces is the Face of Evil

I honestly don’t know much about Rome or Britain to give more other than: I saw one comment say that the reason why Nero has the Whore of Babylon’s face is because she(Nero), has the mana of the Whore. Creating this Whore of Babylon=Rome, Rome=Nero. Resulting in Nero being a saber face. Now, with Nero inheriting a country/empire/republican’s mana. It reminds me of how Artoria/King Arthur(I refuse to call her Altria) and the whole Mana of Britain thing. How Morgana inherited the Mana of the land but Artoria inherited the Dragon core of the Red Dragon of Albion(By Merlin. Maybe that’s why Beast IV/S is rivals with Proto!Merlin. Cuz Merlin stole her Mana), one half the Dragon of Albion and how Vortigern is the other half of Albion, the White Dragon. Now, the biggest relation to Nero and the Matter of Britain for me(Other than actually history) is actually Castoria, or who I calmly call, Altria.(Cuz Lostbelt saberface is a different saber face all together who only knows of Proper Human History Artoria) Why Castoria? Because she says this:

Now, the capital of sin? It can’t be Avalon, maybe it is Camelot. But truthfully, all can think of is another capital of sin, a certain loathsome city of evil, Rome. But also, “final dragon” of course, this means the Red Dragon that Artoria/Altria has one half of the Dragon of Albion. But what if, this Red Dragon was also the same one from the Book of Revelations? Or at least, came from the same Mana. I need to back track to the Whore of Babylon for this. This is her first paragraph in the wiki:

This is the second paragraph for the Beast of Revelations:

From this, Beast of Revelations=Whore of Babylon. Whore of Babylon=Emperor Nero.

This is not explained here properly but if you read the Book of Revelations in the Bible or go to wikipedia via the blue link in the wiki, there is actually 4 Beasts in Revelation. 

One from Sea, a seven headed dragon with ten crowns filled with blasphemous lands. This is the popular one. And this description is the same as the one the harlot rides. Which is why it is often mixed together as the same dragon.

Another from the Land, with two horns like a lamb that speaks like a dragon. This one is also called the False Prophet, whos purpose to spread the Image of the Beast(of the Sea).

These 2 were introduced around the middle of the book but a “third” beast comes after them. This third is actually of two beasts, a harlot who reigns over kings and a scarlet 7 headed dragon, her mount. These two were actually told as if it was History, like it happened in the past before. So the Whore of Babylon, is, not really that ironically, older than Rome and Gilgamesh.

But, another thing that many might not know, is that the Beast from the Sea was given this  “authority” by a Red Dragon, sometimes serpent. This serpent, is equated to/is the Devil himself, Satan/Lucifer. 

This authority might be Domina Coranum, who’s origin is beyond even Humanity’s First Hero, Gilgamesh. The authority coming from Lucifer would make sense, since he fell since even before Genesis, wayyy before Human Civilization. Maybe in the first “era” since God let there be light.

(and maybe even the war on heaven that resulted in Lucifer falling was on where the Whore also participated in, since she too, is an ancient being from history. Maybe even before Gil’s time but maybe around there)

So anyways, moving on from those other theory(s), saber faces. Since, get this, maybe the “authority” is the Mana, that’s the one that gets passed on in the land. The mana of the land, is the mana of the Red Dragon, which is the mana of Lucifer.

Which is why Nero, Artoria and Morgana have the same face, cuz they both have the mana.

So it’ll be like Lucifer>Whore of Babylon>Beast(s) of Revelations>Emperor Nero>

Now i will end this crack theory with more crack theories:

Lucifer is a saberface

Possibly even genderbent

Okita is sick cuz her body cannot handle the Mana of the devil.

All saber faces are evil and MHX was right all along.

There is a chance, that in the Protype world, the Whore of Babylon is a due(HELL YEAH! MEN)

The Beast VI/G(other half of Whore of Babylon) is her mount.

Beast VI L/R are the Beast of Sea and Land

The Red Dragon/Lucifer might be a Beast.

Lakshmibai is a saberface due to colonization and the spread of Britain

Okita is a saberface due to the spread Hinduism and Buddhism into Japan, thanks to Lakshmibai being the avatar of an Indian Goddess.

Jeanne is a saberface due to the spread of Britain as well.

The mana spreads to wars/matters of importance.

Spreading the will of the Devil.

[dollies-corner]

Conspiracy moments

[roaringroa]

meu primeiro date com ela ser na liberdade vai ser tao 💀💀💀 é completamente minha cara isso velho kkk

[girlspecimen]

no because why did they make issei so breedable in the ufotable adaptions

[tbzrai]

I cant BELIEVE I never replied to these tags. yea these totally make sense idk if I wanna switch it up now that canto 5 is out but honestly thats just bc I havent finished it yet

heres my "dont think about it too hard" limbus company x fgo class assignments, some of these have some justifications and others are just a wild guess (cough dante cough)

[lgbtlunaverse]

What kind of saber is baxia anyway?

I love my bloodthirsty princess of a cursed blade, and in my heart of hearts i am nothing but a sword nerd, so i've been extremely fascinated by Baxia and how we know frustratingly little about what she actually looks like!

I mean, look at bichen, right?

Bichen in the donghua:

Bichen in the drama:

They're clearly not exactly the same. The scabbards are different, and the guards have a different shape. But these are recognizably different iterations on one theme, right? Thin jian with a white grip silver guard, light blue tassel and silver mounting accents on the scabbard.

Now this is baxia in the donghua:

And baxia in the drama:

????????

THAT'S A COMPLTELY DIFFERENT WEAPON

it doesn't stop there either, the audio drama is kind enough to give us ANOTHER COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BAXIA

pretty! But how is that he same sword??

And when we go back to the novel, we get very little information on her appearance other than the fact that her blade is tinted red with all the blood she's absorbed. Which none of these designs incorporate.

This is not a dig on the designs itself, they're all quite gorgeous in their own right and i'm going to spend a while discussing all of them! Because isn't it fascinating how, since we know little about novel baxia beyond "saber" all of these designs ended up so different? What kinds of sabers are these, anyway?

So, a chinese aber, aka a "dao" (刀) just means a sword that has only one cutting side. As opposed to a jian, which has two.

You can see how that leaves a LOT of room for variaton.

I've actually seen some people get confused because Huaisang's saber in the untsmed is thin and quite straight, making it superficially resemble the jian more than drama!baxia, but it is still clearly a saber!

See? only one cutting blade!

This, to me looks a lot like a tang dynasty hengdao

credit to this blog for providing his image and being a great source for all this going forward.

TANGENT: during all this I found out the english wikipedia page for dao is WRONG! Ths is what they about the tang hengdao!

So that sounds like the hengdao was called that during the sui dynasty, but then, after that, started being called a peidao, right?

WRONG

I LOOKED AT THE SOURCE THEY USED AND IT SAYS THIS:

IT WAS CALLED THE PEIDOU UNTIL THE SUI DYNASTY, AT WHICH POINT IT WAS CALLED A HENGDAO. Which would carry over to the Tang dynasty. This was the source wikipedia linked! and it says something else than they say it does!

Anyone know how to edit a wikipedia article?

ANYWAY

BACK TO BAXIA

Since we're already at the drama, let's look at drama baxia: She's also straight! the general term for straight-backed saber is Zhibeidao, but that's a modern collector's term, and doesn't really say anything about which historical kind of saber baxia could be based on. Another meta i found on the drama nie sabers already went on some detail here.

I'm gonna expand on that a little: The kinds of historical straight-backed sabers we see resemble the hengdao a lot more than they do baxia. They don't go to their point as harsly as she does (she's basically a cleaver!) and they're all way skinnier.

No, my personal theory is that instead of being based on any kind of historical sword, drama!baxia is based on a Nandao.

I mean, come on, look at it!

Baxia!

The Nandao... isn't actually a historical sword. It was invented for Wushu forms. There's a really fascinating article about its conception, but that's why the swords in the images look a little thin and flimsy. Wushu swords are very flexible and light, they're dance props, not weapons to fight with. There are actual steel versions of Nandao, but they're recreations of the prop, not the other way around.

So That's one way in which Baxia differes from the Nandao: she's actually a real weapon. The other is that, as you can see above, the nandao has an S-shaped guard. Baxia doesn't. She's also much more elaborately decorated, of course. Because she's a princess.

Now: audio drama baxia!

This is much easier. with that flare at the tip?

Oh baby that's a niuweidao, all the way!

There are more sabers with that kind of curved handle, but the broad tip is really charcteristic of the niuweidao. The Niuweidao is also incredibly poplar in modern media, often portrayed as a historical sword, but it originated i nthe 19th century! And it was actually never used by the military!

That's right, the Niuweidao was pretty much exclusively a civilian weapon! That makes its use here anachronistic, but so is the nandao, and considering that the origin story of the Nie is that they use Dao intead of Jian because their ancestors were butchers, portraying them with a weapon historically reserved for rebels and common people instead of the imperial military is actually very on theme!

Finally, Donghua/Manhua baxia. These two designs are so similar I'm going to treat them as one and the same for now.

Unlike both previous baxias, The long handle makes it clear this baxia is a two-handed weapon, though Nie Mingjue is absolutely strong enough to wield her with one hand anyway. Normal rules don't count for cultivators.

Now, this is where things get tricky, because there are a lot of words for long two-handed sabers. And a lot of them are interchangable! This youtube video about the zhanmadao, one of the possible sabers this baxia could be based on, goes a little into just how confusing this can get. This kind of blade WAS actually in military use for many centuries, making it the most historically accurate of all the baxias. But because of that it also has several names and all of those names can also refer to different kinds of blades depending on what century we're in.

So here's our options: i'm going to dismiss the wodao and miandao, because these were explicitly based on japanese sword design, and as we can see manhua baxia has that very broad tip, so that won't work

(Example of a wodao. According to my sources Miaodao is really just the modern common term for the wodao, and the changdao, and certain kinds of zhanmadao... do you see how quickly this gets confusing?)

Next option: Zhanmadao.

Zhanmadao stands for "horse chopping saber" so... yeah they were anti-cavalry weapons. meant to be able to cut the legs and/or necks of horses. That definitely sounds like a weapon Nie Mingjue would wield. But if you watched that youtube video i linked above, you'll know the standardized Qing dinasty Zhanmadao looked very different from earlier versions. It was inspired by the japanese odachi, and more resembles the miandao than its ealrier heftier counteprarts.

Earlier Ming dynasty Zhanmadao on the other hand were... basically polearms. the great ming military blog spot, another wonderful source, says these are essentially a kind of podao/pudao (朴刀) which looked like this

Now that blade looks a lot like baxia, but the handle is honestly too long. Donghua!baxia straddles the line between sword an polearm a little, but while zhanmadao have been used to refer to both long-handled swords and polerarms, this was undeniably a polearm, not a sword.

If you want to know what researching this was like, I found a picture of this blade on pinterest-- labeled as a "two-handed scimitar"-- and the comment section was filled with people arguing about whether this was a Pudao, Wudao, Zhanmadao, Dadao, Guandao, or a japanese Nagita.

So... that's how it was going. This has kept me up until 2 AM multiple times.

However! Thanks to this article on the great ming military blog I found out there have historically been pudao blades with shorter handles!

Specifically, Ming dynasty military writer Cheng Ziyi created a modified version of the pudao to work with the Dan Fao Fa Xuan technixues-- aka technqiues for a two-handed saber, which would alter heavily influence Miaodao swordmanship-- thereby, as the article points out, essentially merging the cleaver-polearm type Zhanmadao with the later two-handed japanese-inspired design.

This is the illustration for the Wu Bei Yao Lue (武備要略) a Ming dynasty military manual

This blade shape in the illustration doesn't match Baxia exactly, but since it's a lengthened Pudao-like blade and we've seen above that those can match Donghua Baxia's shape, i'm gonna say that calling Baxia a Zhanmadao with a two-handed grip isn't all that innacurate!

However, because all of these terms are so intertwined, there are a dozen other things you could call her that would be about equally correct.

To show that, here's a lightning round of other potential Baxia candidates:

Dadao (大刀)

Which are generally one-handed and too short. However!

Another youtube video i found of someone training with a Zhanmadao that resembles baxia a little also calls it a "shuangshoudai dao" (雙手带 刀) shuangshou means two-handed, and while 雙手带 seems to refer to a longer handled weapon, when looking for a shuangshou dao or shuangshou dadao (双手大刀) we find a lot more baxia-resembling blades like here and here

I also found that, while the cleaver-like Dadao is strictly a product of the 20th centuy, since dadao just means big sword or big knife, it has been used to refer to loads of different weapons! Some people could've called the zhanmadao and pudao "dadao" during the Ming dynasty as well.

Another potential baxia candidate that mandarin mansion classifies as similar to the later dadao (though longer, as seen in the illustration below) is the "Kuanren Piandao"

Which piqued my interest because this diagram classifying different tpye of Dao:

Claims that a Kuanrenbiandao (diferent spelling, same sword) is the same as a modern day Zhanmadao.

(So once again, all of these terms are interchangable)

Another opton Is the Chuanmeidao/Chuanweidao (船尾刀) below you can see a diagram, based on the Qing dynasty green standard army regulation, of blades all officially classified as types of "pudao"

The top middle is the Kuanren Piandao, and bottom left is the Chuanweidao.

Both of these have a lot of baxia-like qualities.

So there you go! live action baxia is based on a Nandao, audio drama baxia is based on a Niuweidao, and Manhua/donghua baxia is some kind of two-handed Zhanmadao/Pudao/Dadao depending on how you want to look at it.

I'm honestly surprised no one has made the creative decision to portray Baxia as a Jiuhuandao, aka 9 ringed broadsword yet.

I mean look at it! Incredibly imposing. Would make for a great Baxia imo. (@ upcoming mdzs manga and mobile game: take notes!)

[yamineftis-art]

This is the way...

The amorer is such a fascinating character to me! With the little bits we’ve gotten through the series she’s been shaped into an interesting part of Mandalore and a fun counterpart to Bo Katan. I wanted to draw how I imagine her journey in little important bits. I like to think she was amongst the Mandalorians exiled to Concordia when Satine’s new Mandalorians won the civil war. (I definitely think the tribes exist from before the clone wars, because Din had to end up in one of these to never see a Mandalorian taking their helmet off through his life as a foundling).

I know it sucks that she has banished Din, but it was their adherence to the creed what kept them alive so far, I find reasonable that she’s so harsh when it comes to it. And she still let him keep the dark saber despite not considering him a Mandalorian anymore, which I find super interesting. Emily Swallow, the actress who plays her, once said in an interview that the Armorer sees the potential that Din doesn’t see in himself.

I can only pray there’s a lot of nuance in the way they write her next xD I really don’t see her as a villain at all.

Anyway I had so much fun with this!! and it took me like...half a year to finish it cuz I’ve been so busy kajshdkaj finally it’s done!!!!!

I have a small post with my theory of where the tribe comes from here