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south-park-meta · 1 year ago

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tbh It made me realise the reason why I loved SP's take on depression was better, if u compare Stan with other characters whose purpose is being social commentary on depression and mental health (Effy Stonem from Skins and Hanah Baker from 13 RW).

Hannah Baker (13RW)

Her character frustates me because 13 RW had so much potential,the idea was creative,narrating how many stuff drove her to suicide: from bullying,h4rr4sment,SA'D r4pe, not only adressing depression but to adress those things as well.

I know the author's intention and Selena Gomez's idea were good and focus on mental health but the development was icky,some dialogues feel rushed to arrive to the tragedy, some traumatic events feel to gave shock value to the audience than genuiely comment on it, besides how the series remarks you that if the love interest would have confesed Hannah, It would have saved her.

Which is very hurtful for many reasons.

A partner can help u throught recovery and being moral support but they aren't ur therapist, adding the fact that selling the idea "if he would have confessed,he would have saved her" when confessing or just be with them doesn't automatically saved them??.

Very different with SP, like Wendy and Kyle genuinely wanted to help Stan, but their moral support isn't enough to get him out of depression and sometimes it can be tiring for others (Kyle)

However If we compare a character that is more similar w/ Stan.

• they are both main characters and the leader of their friendgroup.

• they are the younger sibling.

• they can be charismatic,smart, and independant from such young age

• they can be bit arrogant sometimes.

• both of them are done with everyone's bs.

• both of them distrustful of adults, and sometimes get embarrased at their parent's stupidity.

•struggles with relationship, fear of abandoment.

• heavy uses of alcohol plus depression.

However their character differs on how the writers made them, while Skins's purpose was to show life never ends how u want it to be, and endings could be most be sad or just neutral,healing. Showing adolescence,teens struggling with addictions,disfunctional families,etc.

Skins GLAMOURIZED her depression,unlike her brother's behaviour. He was villianized (bc he was an asshole,he deserved it but he matured),he got heavier consequences. unlike her, while her friends and her love interest were fed up,they forgave her too quickly. it also presents u the narrative "love interest saves depressed person" to a whole level, while she was ""recovering". Out of nowhere,her bf gets killed by her psychiatrist?? Out of shock value. Even when she gets a bit of consequences she managed to manipulate to save herself, even with that smirk of "I'm effy stonem I'm always get what I want".

Effy represents an unhealthy and glamourized ideas of depression that the show pushed on it's female fanbase. (as someone w/ depression, when I saw the show I questioned why my depression didn't make me mysterious and prettier or get a bf that saved me from it)

"Her depression it's destructing her but that makes her even prettier and mysterious, ppl want to be her or fuck her"

and it had such an impact that on tumblr when the show came out until this day, many ppl want to be as mentally ill as Effy or fuck her.

Stan's depression and his self destructive tendencies is never showed as something that makes him mysterious or quirky. Neither his philosophy and way of thinking. His conflicts don't feel like to be shock value.

Althought he didn't get therapy at all,it protrayed realistically how some ppl don't get opportunity to be treated, and how sometimes they just have to move forward, feeling like shit but then a neutral point u don't care about anything,neither happy or sad, and keep moving.

Plus his personality,his behaviour in certain situations makes him more relatable to me than any character.

Tegridy farms burning? It was smth u see was coming. Because his anger is explosive, he puts out with his father behaving like a child,drinking,sometimes belittle him, always fighting with this mom for dumb stuff. The farm was an idea clearly Shelly,Sharon and him disliked. And them fighting over the divorce bc Randy didn't want to share money w/ Sharon was his breaking point, the impulsiveness "oh fuck it farm goes boom bc he is an asshole" cost him sister's life in the bad ending.

They showed Wendy trying to be suppoetive but not as his therapist or "love interest saves depressed person". Neither make Kyle his therapist or sm.

And it sometimes surprised me how SP while is social commentary is also dark humor and parody treated depression withot demonizing Stan neither glamourizing his depression.

Honestly his character is so interesting i could analyze that bitch for hours.

Idk how to expressed it but ugh.

I haven't seen Skins so I don't have a point of reference for it lol. I'm gonna go on a bit of a tangent with this.

Depression in South Park and its fandom is a tricky thing because I think a lot of people don't have realistic, or sensitive, headcanons about depression. Which is probably obvious by my whiny posts lately lol.

But it's also something, both for South Park as a fandom and media at large that needs to be looked at pretty carefully. There's a lot of headcanons that if I'm being blunt I think are God awful and insensitive if people think about it critically at all. Which I do try to weigh with the source being South Park which can in itself be insensitive.

The thing that makes South Park as a source fairly unique is it represents a more stereotypically 'masculine' depression. Which isn't to say women can't or don't act that way. But the 'explosive' depression is something that is more typically present in men. And that isn't something that is often present in media as a whole; the typical depiction of depression is more by-the-book representative of young women. (Again not exclusively so. Some of Stan's more annoying/negative traits are things I've felt and worked to outgrow. Probably some I've failed at lol). It also feels very authentic, presumably because Stan is so much of Trey in ways that characters aren't typically so emotionally autobiographical and usually have multiple writers.

That leads to the crux of my waffling with a lot of handling of depression. It very often is based on female depression, and whether in media or fandom is often based on stereotypes of this, such as cutting etc. A lot of stereotype appears because the authors can't personally relate. But then again, quite often authors DO relate to this, and it occurs so often because the authors themselves are more typically women than men, in particular in fandom. But on the other OTHER hand, depression is often treated as childishly annoying and something to grow out of, and in mocking it it very often is done by exaggerating the female depression stereotype that everyone has in their heads. Even in South Park there's a mess of trying to write mental illness but not being able to relate personally, relating personally but not presenting in the same way as is typical the demographic represented and shown in South Park, and finding mental illness annoying and actively mocking it, usually in these underhanded kind of headcanons.

Anyway this is a mess lol I'm about to clock out for work but hopefully there's still something decent in what I said. Mental illness and its representation is so multifaceted! Maybe I'll talk more about it tomorrow when I'm off :) thanks for the ask!

ETA Now that I'm back home:

Overall what makes good representation is:

Knowing from personal experience

Being earnest

There are at times things you can extrapolate from your personal knowledge of being human and feeling emotions even if you don't know things personally. But it's going to always feel truer when it is truer even with the best of intentions.

Being earnest makes a huge difference, too, and is something I think people forget. Shows like South Park can be and often are insensitive, but the feelings behind them are also often authentic and earnest. Shows like Skins, often aren't earnest by design in that more dramatic/soap opera based shows are usually looking for more shock value than emotional authenticity (someone feel free to correct me if I've missed the mark on the genre though. This is just what I've vaguely picked up from Skins from seeing like 2 or 3 eps and knowing the general premise lol). I think it also speaks to my earlier points in that the VAST majority of the writing credits for this show are men and have no lived experience as being a depressed teen girl. No lived experience and a desire for emotional reaction over emotional connection is, to me, always going to lead to a less 'true' outcome. Even if the show has its own positive merits.

I actually DID read Thirteen Reasons Why (in high school) and watched uhhh about 15 minutes of the show, which I quit because it struck me as OTT in a way that I don't really like. I did like the book okay but also thought at the time 'this dude doesn't know what it's like to be a girl', which is the crux of a lot of problems. But I do think Jay Asher has his heart in the right place which covers up some of the problems. I've heard a little bit about the show that makes me inclined to agree it leans into shock value though.

Side note as a rec, everyone should watch Ordinary People. That movie's good as hell.

#south park #stan marsh #book's p good too it's a pretty direct adaptation #and also a good representation of characters that behave in less demographically typical ways but still feel authentic #hopefully jay asher hasn't been too dickish lol #i only know him as the writer of 13 r w and I pm thought the execution was clumsy but well-meaning

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stxleslyds · 3 years ago

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It’s very interesting to see your thoughts on Winnik cause personally while I like that he made jason a bit unhinged and fun in utrh his other characterizations of his were eh at best. Like why would jason not care about the world and why would he take over the drug trade of all things considering his history. I feel like Winnick had a very surface level understanding of Jason. There was a lot of his past to explore but it wasn’t explored that deeply. Plus I absolutely HATED his Bruce and talia characterization. And how he wrote Talia in both utrh and lost days was absolutely disgusting and his explanation for why he did it was that Jason loves Talia and that they were both messed up ppl??? Which is where I can’t forgive him. I feel like he was a one hit wonder because ever since utrh his Jason story started to go downhill. I also feel like it’s because DC doesn’t know how to write a character that’s from a poor background and that’s a huge disservice to Jason. I do hope that Rosenberg or another writer (hopefully female) does a good job on him. He’s been suffering under shitty writing for so long. Sorry for the long ask I really enjoy reading your posts.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending your ask!

Well, this is a great question because I love giving my opinions on Winick’s UtRH and Lost Days. I know those books (or some moments in them) are not everyone’s cup of tea and I had and have some problems with some of them but I have also come to understand them or even accept them as a writer bringing up a morally grey area in his books and doing it well (or at least I saw it that way after re-reading and researching a bit about his thoughts on those matters).

This is going to be a long post (I suppose) because there is a lot to cover and I want to let you know in a clear way why I think that what Winick wrote works beautifully for Jason. I will try to answer this as coherently as I can, so I will talk about the points you made in your ask separately so I make sure I don’t forget anything.

Let’s begin!

“Why would Jason not care about the world?”

I assume with that you meant about what happened in Bludhaven when Chemo was dropped there by the Society? That is valid but that really wasn’t Winick’s fault (I believe), that whole thing was shown in the book because back then the Bat-related books were more interconnected and that was what was happening in Dick’s Nightwing run at the time, which I think was used to explain why Dick suddenly stopped helping Bruce in Gotham.

And then I think Jason and Bruce watching that happen when they were having that conversation on that roof was very well planned out. I think Winick used that opportunity for Jason to be his peak level of little shit and make Bruce feel bad about not arriving in time to save another one of his kids. Even though Jason later revealed that he never blamed Batman for not arriving in time to save him, I believe Jason said that about Dick to make Bruce hurt more. Jason was trying to make Bruce stay in Gotham so either Bruce or him killed the Joker that night. Winick on the other hand had to finish his story, him branching out and having Batman go to Bludhaven would have benefited absolutely no one either, and it just didn’t fit the story that was being told in Under the Red Hood.

That’s why I think that Jason reacted that way to the Bludhaven and Chemo situation. If by caring about the world you meant something else let me know! (He obviously cared about Gotham in UtRH and other people in Lost Days).

“Why would he take over the drug trade of all things considering his history?”

Well, I have to be honest with you Jason wanting to control the drug trade in Gotham makes absolute sense to me, and even more when I think about Jason’s past history.

Jason and Bruce have always been (to me) clear opposites in various angles, and in UtRH, Winick talks about that a little bit too.

Batman was created to eradicate crime from Gotham after Bruce witnessed the death of his parents, that was the tragedy that set him off, and even though it was tragic and awful he had everything outside of his parents, he had a home, a support system, people that cared and gave him love, and money. He never had to be in contact with the cruel reality that was Gotham. We know through various stories that Gotham is deeply rotten and corrupted.

But Jason did know how corrupted, rotten and devoid of hope his city really was, he lived in the streets and in an abandoned apartment alone because he didn’t trust the police or social workers (he didn’t believe the system was helpful). He had seen his mother die at the hands of drugs after his father was sent to jail due to his criminal behaviour. Probably his father was a drug dealer and was the person that got his mother into drugs, (I believe that was later made canon, I might be wrong). But why did he do that? Maybe because he came from a poor and complicated background and nobody wanted to employ him so the real bad people of Gotham, like Black Mask, Cobblepot and many others, saw his vulnerability and his desperation to make money and they gave him a job as a drug dealer.

Considering that Jason was made out to have very deep problems with people selling drugs in schools and all that, I can estimate that maybe one of the big Drug Lords at the time employed Jason’s father when he was barely a teenager, that way he earned money, he stopped going to school and sold drugs to his peers so the bad people could control more people while they were vulnerable.

If all of that is true then Jason wanting to control the drug trade in Gotham, by becoming a Drug Lord himself, makes perfect sense to me. I mean let’s talk about this, what were his other options?

Kill every drug lord?

What if that set off a gang war in Gotham over who got to be the next big Drug Lord? I mean, it would be like real life, if someone dies in that sort of position there would always be someone else to take their place. Drugs are clearly (in Gotham) a great way to get money and power.

Also, if he killed all the drug lords then what happened to the people that were working for them, how could Jason help them get another job?

Explode every warehouse and facility with drugs in them?

And then what? Wait for Black Mask and the others to buy more and put a target on his back? Maybe kill some innocents so they can send a message to Red Hood that if he keeps destroying their drugs or whatever people will pay for it?

Maybe all the drug lords would come together and kill the Red Hood themselves, what could one man do against everyone else? Black Mask and the others had vulnerable people on a payroll, if they stopped working or went against what their boss said they would have been killed and then families would still be vulnerable and desperate to survive in Gotham.

Come forward as Jason Todd, the not so dead son of Bruce Wayne, and start a campaign against drugs?

Jason would have ended up dead in seconds, everywhere you look there are corrupt people. What could have been the point of that? What could have Jason be able to give families like his so they could stop living under the control of drugs and Drug Lords?

Jason being a Drug Lord himself was the best option because Jason KNOWS the reality of Gotham and Gotham’s people. His way of dealing with drugs could control the drug trade in the first 10 years and then eradicate it after that time. His plan was genius!

Jason knew that for people not to suffer as his family did, he had to take the slow and hard path of becoming the thing that he hated the most. He needed to attack the monster from within. So, when he made his first move he controlled the street-level dealers, he told them “I will protect you from both Black Mask and Batman if you stop dealing drugs to kids and in schoolyards if you do that, you are dead”, it is genius! By being clear about not wanting to have kids and high schoolers involved with drugs he set out a new path where those people weren’t forced into drugs and driven away from school. And that’s the way Winick made us see Jason’s not so new morals, he protects Gotham’s kids and he will kill you without hesitation if you endanger them.

From that he built, Winick made it clear, at first Jason would convince the people working for other Drug Lords to work for him if they followed his rules (and he offered them protection!). If Jason worked on the drug trade, he could have controlled who was inserted in the drug life or could have made it exclusive to the rich or club exclusive. In his intention of taking over the drug trade, he could have moved drugs away from Gotham’s most vulnerable.

And if he employed those vulnerable people, he would have made them work for him on other levels, that way those vulnerable people still had jobs and were protected from people like Black Mask. And in due time, fewer young and poor people would be involved with drugs or the drug trade.

Red Hood employs poor people and makes them not sell to other poor people or kids, he pays his employees good money so their families make a better life for themselves and their kids go to school, they are all protected by the Red Hood and his team (Jason could have trained others and make a team or gang that focused entirely on security), those people then get to retire with their families far away from drugs and maybe Gotham too.

I mean, Winick never did those things but I think that was the way he was thinking about it, he really set a golden path for future writers, his story had to finish Jason’s dilemma with Bruce and Joker but then his life as the Red Hood continued. And it could have been good if other writers used the characterization that Winick had given Jason: protector of children, killer of rapists and everyone that endangered women, children and teenagers. All of that was thrown away for a mythical fight with Ra’s al Ghul for people that were as trashy as Ra’s.

“I feel like Winick had a very surface-level understanding of Jason”.

I have to disagree. I think he understood Jason’s character before his death well and then built a grown-up version of him with those morals more developed after he suffered more and then saw how the world and Batman’s ways hadn’t changed after his murder.

We are talking about post-crisis Jason here; he was sweet and he loved being Robin but he also saw the world differently from Bruce and Batman. He lived a very different life than the one that Bruce lived when he was a kid. Jason even said that he “could fend for himself just fine” and that he had “graduated from the streets of crime alley”.

To me Winick understood this completely, he knew that Jason had had close contact with how drugs could affect people and what a criminal record could lead you to, but he also understood that Jason was a survivor of "crime alley" and all its worst people. He probably knew of things that people were doing of he saw them happening. He knew how to protect himself from those things but understood that not everyone could do it. And when Batman took him to Ma Gunn’s school Jason learned that Batman was ignorant of how awful and manipulative Gotham’s people could be. Ma Gunn wasn’t running an orphanage or cool school; she was teaching children how to steal and harm others. He hated it, he was “okay” when he was alone and now, he was locked in with older kids that beat him and Ma Gunn who was exploiting children’s vulnerability.

I assume Winick took that and maybe decided that was the moment when Jason knew that even if Batman was trying to do good, he still didn’t see Gotham (or that side of Gotham) for what it truly was.

When Jason became Robin and worked along with Batman, we could already see that Jason thought very differently about what should be done with rapists, and abusers of all kinds, Jason saw the world differently when he was a kid and a teenager and then after his death, Winick used that to build a Jason Todd that as a young adult still saw Gotham for what it truly was.

“There was a lot of his past to explore but it wasn’t explored that deeply”.

I am really confused by this (and I am very dumb), did you mean that his past before his death wasn’t explored? Because that was not the point of this book, the information was already there with Jason’s previous appearances in comics, and even then, Winick explored through flashbacks in UtRH how he saw Jason and what it was that Jason thought about crime.

If you didn’t mean that and you meant his past before the events of UtRH but after his death then, well, I would say that Winick couldn’t have fit that in UtRH but he did write a story about that time in 2010 when he wrote Red Hood: Lost Days.

“I absolutely hated his Bruce and Talia characterization”

I will only talk about the Bruce part here because you mentioned Talia later in your ask.

To me his Bruce was perfect. I really think that his characterization of him was spot on, but maybe I am biased because I don’t like Bruce at all? I suppose that you are talking about Bruce’s characterization in those last moments in "crime alley" with Jason and Joker? And how he decided that making Jason drop the weapon by throwing a batarang to his throat and saving Joker was a better option than Jason killing the Joker?

If it is that then I would love to see what you think Bruce would have done at that moment because I didn’t really see Bruce using a gun (in any way) as an in-character thing for him, and even though DC has always danced with the idea of Bruce actually killing somebody I know that they wouldn’t have him do it, and even less when it comes to killing the Joker.

I mean, Bruce brought back Joker from the dead when Dick finally killed that piece of shit so, yeah, I don’t know.

I feel like Winick was trying to show just how loyal and squared Bruce is when it comes to his own no killing rule. Jason wasn’t asking for Bruce to go on a killing spree he just wanted Bruce to kill the Joker and he didn’t. Winick even had Bruce say that about him not wanting to kill one person because he felt that if he did that, he wouldn’t be able to stop and I think that’s pretty true. Maybe it is a bit too much but I don’t think it’s a lie.

“How he wrote Talia in both UtRH and Lost Days was absolutely disgusting”

That is absolutely valid, listen, if you didn’t like how he wrote her at all I really can’t say anything against that. My first real and solid contact with Talia’s character was in that book, so when I read UtRH I really liked how he wrote Talia in that, it seemed to have that aspect of Talia’s love for Bruce being so strong that when she saw Jason was alive, she wanted to help him so Bruce could see how much he loved her. It is messed up but I believed it fitted her character, she had good intentions but her reasoning was a little bit wonky.

With Lost Days, I thought that her character was well written, she isn’t a hero and she isn’t a villain, she is just a player in the game that is the League of Assassins and that world. That obviously changed up until we had that scene happen between her and Jason, I was grossed out and I didn’t understand why that had happened which leads me to what you said next in your ask.

“His explanation for why he did it was that Jason loves Talia and that they were both messed up people”.

This is a part of the interview where Judd Winick answered a question about Jason and Talia sleeping together. The interview was done by Sara Lima in ComicVine’s podcast.

“SL: Why did you decide to write the romantic scene between Jason and Talia in Lost Days?

JW: For those playing at home, Jason Todd, at the end of Red Hood: Lost Days, and Talia slept together. I did that because it was really disturbing and to shine a light on the fact that these are not really well people. A lot of people didn’t like that, which was correct. “You weren’t supposed to like that. That was supposed to be, ‘oh God, stop that, what are you doing?’ It really was. As well as, for Talia, her reasons, being that Bruce had wound up inadvertently killing her father and she was ragingly angry with him and went from love to pure hate and still loving him at the same time. And Jason, given the opportunity to have sex with just about the only woman who Bruce has had sex with or really cares about, ‘Yeah, I’ll go there.’

SL: He’s like, ‘yeah, cause I hate that guy.’

JW: Yeah! ‘I hate that guy!’ And I think that Jason probably had the hots for Talia. She’s hot, he doesn’t exactly have a lot of relationships going on – It’s not a good thing for either of them. These are two people who murder people, two people who are screwed up, screwed up emotionally. There’s this question that why would he do that and Talia only loves Bruce. She might only love Bruce, but she does have sex with other people because that’s just sex. And we’re all grown-ups here. I think those who shake their fist and get angry at this kind of thing might be some of our older readers. I’m an older reader, but I acknowledge the fact that people aren’t that chaste and grow up: people have sex. That’s why I ended it like that; It was messed up.

Maybe it was in another interview or something but this is the only time that I have seen Winick talk about that and I don’t think he mentioned Jason loving Talia but he did say said that “These are two people who murder people, two people who are screwed up, screwed up emotionally”.

When I looked it up, I found that someone that is described as screwed up is a person that is “emotionally disturbed”. That description is one that I feel is valid for both Jason and Talia at the time, they both had a lot going on and were fighting some demons so maybe it’s not a nice thing to say but I can’t say that the statement isn’t true. Or at least that’s how I see it.

When I came across that interview for the first time, I wasn’t expecting Winick to apologise for writing that interaction but I did want an explanation so after he said, “A lot of people didn’t like that, which was correct. “You weren’t supposed to like that. That was supposed to be, ‘oh God, stop that, what are you doing?’ It really was” and “for Talia, her reasons, being that Bruce had wound up inadvertently killing her father and she was ragingly angry with him and went from love to pure hate and still loving him at the same time. And Jason, given the opportunity to have sex with just about the only woman who Bruce has had sex with or really cares about, ‘Yeah, I’ll go there.’”

I felt like that was enough, granted I didn’t like it and I still don’t like it but I don’t see it as Winick writing something disturbing with evil intentions, I just see it as him writing these two morally grey people doing some very morally grey stuff.

This is not me saying that this is how things have to be taken, I know and understand many people who absolutely don’t like this at all and that’s valid. I am not here to change your mind about that, personally when I read the why he wrote that I felt like that explanation was enough but that is just me.

“I feel like he was a one-hit-wonder because ever since UtRH his Jason story started to go downhill”

I think Winick was only meant to write Jason’s comeback to comics, around the time he was writing Outsiders and Green Arrow. And there was also the “Infinite Crisis” (Winick wasn’t involved with that one) event going on in the middle that explained some stuff like how Jason was resurrected which was explored in Batman Annual #25 in 2006 (like a year after the UtRH book had come out and it was also written by Winick). Then with the popularity of the UtRH book the animated movie was made (written by Judd Winick) and because that was coming out DC allowed Winick to write the six-issue mini of Red Hood: The Lost Days in 2010.

The UtRH story didn’t go downhill, DC simply couldn’t handle that level of mature storytelling at the time, just after that event ended DC was already planning on changing stuff and then the New 52 came years later.

Winick’s Jason even made an appearance in Outsiders #44-46, there Red Hood wanted to help the Outsiders break out a good man (Black Lightning) out of prison because he hadn’t killed anyone (it had actually been Slade). Jason/Red Hood’s characterization and story going downhill wasn't on Winick, it was on DC and their lack of interest in making their characters complex and dual.

“DC doesn’t know how to write a character that’s from a poor background and that’s a huge disservice to Jason”

Absolutely. But in my case, I do think that Winick did work with Jason’s background very well. To me, he set a path and no one could follow it but I might also be horribly wrong.

I also hope that Rosenberg does an amazing job! I absolutely love his work, as I have said before he is super funny and isn’t scared of writing characters who kill. I feel like he will bring back the sarcastic little shit that Jason once was but he will also bring back that sense of seriousness and dedication that Jason has for the work that he is doing. Rosenberg even showed us some of that in that prelude to Task Force Z in Detective Comics, I absolutely recommend them if you haven’t read them, issues #1041 and #1042 were the ones with that backup story.

I can see that we have very different opinions but that’s just a part of the comic world, we all perceive these comics differently and that’s valid! I am glad you enjoy reading my posts and I hope that even though we have those different opinions you were still able to enjoy my answer! If you think that I misunderstood anything that you say please let me know, sometimes my brain just doesn’t click.

Hope you have a fantastic week!

#jason todd #red hood #robin jason todd #utrh #red hood lost days #jasons characterization #dc comcis #asksss

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gloryofluv · 3 years ago

Text

Order Up! (Coffee Shop AU) Chapter 8

Just going to say, Satan you sneaky little shit. Hahaha This chappy was so fun to write.

Previous Chapter

Alex walked Lucifer inside, and she began her tour. He was silent and examined things with precise evaluation. The woman relaxed as she led him through the first floor. She often would shake her head and shrug at the old furniture she hasn’t touched like monuments to her dead parents.

It was when she took him up the staircase that she grew edgy. Alex showed him the spare room that Jordan stayed in and shook her head at the furniture left. The other room was a study for her father she never went into.

Alex skipped a door and then pointed to the last door down the hall. “And then my parents’ room. So, yeah, that’s the gist of it. I really just think most of the furniture is going to be sold or given away.”

Lucifer scowled at the closed door at the end of the hall. “You never go inside their room?”

“Oh, I dust and everything. I just haven’t packed anything of theirs,” Alex expressed with a tint to her cheeks.

He hummed and paced past her to the door she skipped. “This is your room?”

She nodded quickly. “Yeah.”

He arched an eyebrow before moving from the door. “We’ll see what you will need immediately later.”

Alex rubbed her forearm and agreed. “Yeah, that sounds good.”

“Let’s take a walk around the yard before we sit down,” Lucifer declared and beckoned her to the staircase.

The pair traveled out to the backyard, and Lucifer evaluated the lawn furniture, swing, and grass. He moved around the side of the house with Alex, and they went through the gate. He gestured to a few decorations and smiled in the slightest.

“I’ve enjoyed seeing those glass peacocks for many years,” He chuckled.

Alex beamed and stroked one of them. “Yes, my mom got them in India when they went on vacation before I was born.”

“I do hope you plan on keeping them. They are a piece of art,” Lucifer nodded.

“Oi, Lucifer! Why are you parked in the driveway?” Mammon shouted.

The pair jerked, and Mammon was walking out of the house. Well, if he didn’t look around, he wouldn’t have seen them. The tremulous man gasped and raced over with a bouncy stride. “Oh, hey, Alex. Whatcha doing over here?”

“We’re evaluating her home,” Lucifer sighed.

“Her home?” Mammon was scratching his head as he glanced at the house. “Ya buying it?”

“No, I’m selling it,” Alex said.

Mammon’s eyes shot open. “Alex, ya live here?” He gasped.

She rocked her head.

“Yes, and now that we have that fact cleared away. We will be helping her move. All of us,” Lucifer voiced.

Mammon blinked and closed the distance. “Yeah, I mean, sure. She’s just one girl and needs some strong men,” he winked.

Alex groaned as Lucifer smacked Mammon’s head. “We talked about this,” Lucifer growled.

Mammon winced and rubbed the back of his head. “Fuck, Lucifer.”

“Hey, what are all of you doing over there?” Satan called out.

Alex shook her head with a small smile. Of course. Satan left their front yard with Asmodeus in tow. Asmo was whispering to Satan in speedy whispers, and he was nodding. They walked over the grass and met the group.

“What exactly is going on?” Asmo asked with exasperation on his face.

Lucifer rolled his eyes and pulled out his phone. “Beel, get your brother and come across the street. The house with the glass peacocks.”

“Um, okay, Lucifer,” Beel grumbled through the speaker.

He hung up and shook his head. “We mind as well do this now.”

“What about Levi?” Mammon puffed.

“He’s at his anime club at the college,” Satan declared.

“Oh, I’m so proud of him!” Alex gasped. “I’ve been trying to convince him that just because he’s doing online classes doesn’t mean he shouldn’t join a club.”

Satan smiled and nodded. “Yes, he said you promised it would be fun.”

The door across the street slammed, and Beel walked outside with Belphegor stomping with him. They saw Alex and scowled together before walking into the yard. “What the fuck do you think I did now?” Belphegor grumbled.

“Nothing, let’s go inside,” Lucifer sighed and glanced at Alex.

Oh, she needed to lead. Okay. She jutted into motion and moved to the front door. Alex welcomed them inside and guided them into the living room. Lucifer stood by the mantle as Alex settled in the armchair. The other brothers sat down on the sofa and loveseat.

“Well, what are we doing here?” Asmo hummed.

“This is Alex’s house,” Lucifer declared.

Asmo gasped and covered his mouth.

Beel and Belphie glanced at each other.

Satan just smirked and nodded.

“How long have you lived here?” Asmo questioned.

“Since I was a baby,” Alex laughed.

“You knew you lived across from us?” Beel inquired.

“Not until Lucifer helped me with my car. That was how he knew I had a flat tire,” Alex explained.

“Alex has to move, and we are offering her a room to rent until she finds a permanent residence after the sale of her house,” Lucifer voiced.

Satan’s eyebrows arched his eyebrows. “Oh, that’s interesting.”

“Before we go into any odd questions,” Lucifer puffed and shook his head. “There are going to be rules.”

“Well, yeah, for starters, Asmo, you can’t just bust into her room,” Belphie teased.

Lucifer exhaled and glanced at her. “Are you positive you can tolerate them?”

Alex shifted and shrugged. “I’ve only ever lived with Jordan and my parents before. I never had to live in a dorm or anything because I had the house.”

“Oh, you’re so cute! She truly is adorable!” Asmo gushed and shook Satan’s arm. “We need to move her today!”

Satan grimaced and took his arm from Asmodeus. “Alex, I think Lucifer is serious. Do you really want that?” he gestured at Asmo.

Asmo pouted and puffed. “Jerk.”

“I think the obvious is the rules that we had about females in the house before are to be abided by,” Lucifer hummed and waved his hand.

Satan scowled. “I wasn’t around for that, Lucifer.”

“It’s fine,” Lucifer hummed. “We’ll go over them later.”

Alex cleared her throat. “I just want to say I’m not going to be too much trouble. I just work and spend plenty of time by myself. I’ll do my best not to get anyone’s way.”

“You won’t be in anyone’s way,” Belphegor snorted.

“We are going to help her move her things. This is your opportunity to do for her what Diavolo and his father did for us. Do I make myself clear? They helped us in grief, and now we can do the same for Alex,” Lucifer voiced as he directed his attention to his brothers.

They all nodded. “For Lilith,” Beel agreed.

“Yes,” Mammon puffed as he grimaced.

“Hey, if you guys help me sell some of the junk I’m getting rid of, I’ll split the cash with you,” Alex offered.

Mammon perked up and grinned. “Yeah? That sounds easy. Leave it to me!”

“No, I’ll take care of that. So it’s fair,” Satan shook his head. “Mammon is too greedy to help it. However, I’m always willing to help, Alex. We talked about this the other day.”

Asmo waved his hand. “I’ll help with the clothes and accessories! I have to make sure you don’t get rid of the vintage for pennies, honey.”

“Yes, we’ll all help,” Beel nodded.

“Levi has a great setup on eBay,” Belphegor nodded. “I can help him with the pictures and all that.”

Alex blinked. This was the strangest thing ever. They all were just going to help without anything in return? She teared up and tried to hide her face with her hand.

Lucifer breathed and rubbed her shoulder. “It’s alright, Alex.”

“I’m just so touched. No one’s ever done this for me before. I’m so used to being abandoned when times get hard,” she murmured.

“We’re a weird fucked up family, welcome,” Belphegor said.

“Whether ya like it or not, girl,” Mammon added.

“Please stop calling her that. She has a name,” Satan complained.

Alex laughed and pulled her hand away to see Lucifer looking down at her. “Thank you.”

He nodded and squeezed her shoulder before standing straight again. “So, we have plenty of work to do.”

Her doorbell rang, and she jumped. “Shit, I forgot,” she stood up and went to the front door.

When it opened, Solomon was smiling with boxes and packing tape. “Hello, Alex. This is a nice location.”

“I know,” she smiled and wiped her face. “Thanks for dropping them by for me.”

The murmuring in the other room drew his attention. “Do you have visitors?” Solomon questioned.

“Good afternoon, Solomon,” Lucifer hummed.

Solomon’s smile grew. “Oh, good afternoon, Lucifer. Had I known I was interrupting, I would have waited to stop by.”

“You’re not interrupting,” Lucifer voiced.

“Mammon, stop!” Asmodeus snapped from the other room.

“Do you have the whole family with you?” Solomon questioned as he looked at Alex.

She nodded and waved for him to come inside. “Come on in and put the boxes right next to the stairs. I don’t know where I’m going to get started, but I’ll figure it out eventually.”

Solomon complied and set the tape down on the table. “I have more in my car.”

She rocked her head and walked with him out the door. “Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.”

He waved his finger. “Don’t mention it. I had them sitting there collecting dust.”

Alex beamed and stood on the sidewalk as he lifted his trunk. He pulled out several flattened boxes and handed them to her. He shut it and glanced at the house with a nod.

“This will go for plenty, Alex. Your parents still continue to take care of you in ways you don’t understand yet,” He expressed while taking the boxes from her grip.

“Well, I think some of that is the brothers currently arguing in my living room,” Alex laughed and shook her head.

Solomon beamed and nodded. “They’re odd, but I do happen to like them. Just do yourself a favor. They all have demons due to their tragedies. Be careful with your own, alright?”

She cocked her head with a scowl. “Solomon, doesn’t everyone have demons?”

He shook his head. “Nothing in this world will ever create more than feeling unwanted by your parents and losing someone who loved you unconditionally after that. You and I are more human because we were raised around love. They were not. They had to learn how to. Do you understand?”

“Yes, I think I understand,” Alex nodded.

Solomon reached out and tucked some of her escaped hair behind her ear. “Don’t worry. You’ll be just fine. It will be a good adventure for you,” he smiled.

Her cheeks darkened, and she tucked her chin toward her neck. “I think so too.”

“Let’s get you back inside so you can wrangle them,” Solomon chuckled and lifted the boxes. They walked instep and Solomon hummed. “You’re quite beautiful, Alex. Appearances matter little. What I'm referring to is your mind. Keep fortifying yourself with experiences. Eat it all with fervor. Stop living for the dead. They’re gone.”

She stopped at the door and kissed his cheek. “Thank you.”

His cheeks darkened in the slightest, and he nodded. “Of course, Alex.”

Solomon set the boxes down and patted Alex’s shoulder before they bid each other goodbye. She shut the door behind him and paused in thought. He was right. She really needed to embrace this change. Nodding, she walked back into the living room as Lucifer was speaking.

“And once that’s done, the real estate agent will put up the house for sale,” he finished.

Satan and Beel were nodding. “That’s concise,” Satan agreed.

“So, when are we starting?” Alex questioned.

“Tomorrow afternoon,” Lucifer said. “Then, on Thursday, we shall work all day on such. By Saturday, we should have things together to help you move your things over to the spare room. The workers can start with the lower level next week.”

She arched her eyebrow. “Were you talking to my real estate agent today, Lucifer?”

He nodded. “I’m efficient, Alex. When things need to be done, I don’t waver.”

“You are very efficient, and I’m truly grateful for all of you,” Alex smiled.

“Are you coming over for dinner?” Beel asked.

Asmo rocked his head. “You should.”

“Yeah, totally,” Mammon agreed.

Alex laughed and rocked her head. “Okay, I will.”

“Good,” Lucifer paused at his phone ringing. “Yes, Diavolo?” He asked and walked out of the room.

“Such a good little boot licker,” Belphegor snickered.

“How much do you think he sucks his dick between paperwork?” Satan snorted while rolling his eyes.

Alex blinked and tilted her head. “Wait, they’re together?”

Satan grinned and covered Asmo’s mouth. “Yes.”

Mammon snorted. “Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me, but I don't give a fuck.”

“Completely. Lucifer’s been sucking Diavolo’s dick for years,” Belphegor nodded.

“Now you’re just lying to me,” Alex snorted.

Asmo pulled Satan’s hand from his mouth and puffed. “What I was going to say is yes! Those two are a big power couple behind closed doors,” he laughed.

Beel scratched his head and shrugged. “I guess.”

Alex bounced her shoulders. “Well, you learn something new every day, I guess.”

There was a little back and forth on the subject, but Alex felt her ego slightly deflate. Well, it makes sense, actually. Lucifer basked in compliments, but that's all that was, and came running to her aid. She was a wounded bird.

The woman sat down in her chair and listened to the brothers as they talked about memories at Diavolo’s estate and living there for a bit with his father. They made her laugh and smile, but mostly they made her feel a part of their weird family. That’s what she was missing; family.

@rsmrymnt-tea@otome-scribbles

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ripjaws · 4 years ago

Text

Ben 10 Survey Results!

Huge thank you to everyone who submitted a response, it was really fun looking through them all and I was genuinely surprised by the results of some of the questions.

Hopefully this will work under a read more because it's quite long and I don't want people to have to scroll a hundred years to get past it.

If anyone has any questions or anything please feel free to ask! :)

Thanks again!

General

Q1. How would you describe your gender?

36% - Female 25.3% - Male 24% - Non-binary 8% - Prefer not to say 4% - Agender 2.7% - Genderfluid

Q2. How would you describe your sexuality?

32% - Bisexual 20% - Heterosexual 20 % - Asexual 8% - Lesbian 6.7% - Prefer not to say 5.4% - Pansexual 4% - Gay 1.3% - Demisexual 1.3% - Questioning 1.3% - Polysexual

Q3. Current age

48% - 20-24 39% - 15-19 13.3% - 25-30 1.3% - Older than 30 1.3% - Younger than 15

Q4. Age when you first became interested in Ben 10

86.7% - Younger than 15 9.3% - 15-19 2.7% - 20-24 1.3% - 25-30

Episodes and season

Q1. Which series did you watch first?

88% - Original Series 9.3% - Alien Force 1.3% - Omniverse 1.3% - Reboot

Q2. Rank the series in order of preference

[IMAGE ID: Five separate groups of five vertical bar charts. The individual columns for each group are coloured in the same order and corresponds to what ranking they recieved on that question of the survey. According to the key at the top of the image the order is; blue = 1, red = 2, orange = 3, green = 4 & purple = 5. The Y axis of the graph goes from zero to thirty in intervals of ten.

The first group is labelled ‘Original Series’ and shows that it got twenty votes in blue, seventeen votes in red, sixteen votes in orange, ten votes in green & twelve votes in purple.

The second group is labelled ‘Alien Force’ and shows that it got nine votes in blue, eighteen votes in red, twenty-one votes in orange, twenty-two votes in green & five votes in purple.

The third group is labelled ‘Ultimate Alien’ and shows that it got thirteen votes in blue, ten votes in red, fourteen votes in orange, twenty-two votes in green & sixteen votes in purple.

The fourth group is labelled ‘Omniverse’ and shows that it got eighteen votes in blue, fifteen votes in red, seventeen votes in orange, fifteen votes in green & ten votes in purple.

The fifth and final group is labelled ‘Reboot’ and shows that it got fifteen votes in blue, fifteen votes in red, seven votes in orange, six votes in green & thirty-two votes in purple. END IMAGE ID]

Q3. Favourite season (Original Series)

40% - Season 1 18.7% - Season 2 18.7% - Season 3 17.3% - Season 4 5.3% - Don’t like/Haven’t watched

Most popular episodes were Ken 10 (S4E10) & Kevin 11 (S1E7)

Q4. Favourite season (Alien Force)

52% - Season 2 28% - Season 1 16% - Season 3 4% - Don’t like/Haven’t watched

Most popular episodes were Alone Together (S2E2) & Save the Last Dance (S2E4)

Q5. Favourite Season (Ultimate Alien)

36% - Season 1 25.3% - Season 3 20% - Don’t like/Haven’t watched 18.7% - Season 2

Most popular episodes were Forge of Creation (S1E16) & Duped (S1E2)

Q6. Favourite Season (Omniverse)

18.7% - Don’t like/Haven’t watched 18.7% - Season 2 16% - Season 5 12% - Season 6 10.7% - Season 1 9.3% - Season 8 8% - Season 4 5.3% - Season 3 1.3% - Season 7

Most popular episodes were And Then There Were None (S6E1) & And Then There Was Ben (S6S2)

Q7. Favourite Season (Reboot)

60% - Don’t like/Haven’t watched 17.3% - Season 4 10.7% - Season 3 6.7% - Season 1 5.3% - Season 2

Most popular episodes were Omni-tricked (S1E37) & Innervasion (S2E36)

Q8. Which live action movie did you prefer?

40% - Alien Swarm 22.7% - Race Against time 22.7% - Didn’t like either 14.7% - Haven’t watched either

Characters and aliens

Q1. Favourite main character

45.3% - Ben Tennyson 28% - Kevin Levin 17.3% - Rook Blonko 9.3% - Gwen Tennyson

Some ‘Why’ responses:

Ben -

I know it's a really basic pick but I enjoy Ben alot as a character. Even though I feel like he took an extremely sharp turn into immaturity in the final season of Alien Force onward (from what I've heard it was due to ratings), it still fit well after a bit of time of adjustment. Him being rash and selfish at times while still having a good heart feels...very human. I'm a huge fan of flawed protagonists and Ben is a prime example of such, imo! Plus I hradcanon that he has autism and it's a big comfort for me :)

I love his potential as a character and the way he hands having such power and responsibility thrust upon him. Ben has done so much for the people in his life and the universe, and I absolutely adore him.

I think of him like a kind person who tries his best to the right thing, he's pretty chill and optimist and in my mind he's a chaotic bi and i can relate to that

Kevin -

I like that he's always been an antihero in the original series. And in the reboot I really like the direction the showrunners are taking his character. He has a different backstory, motivations and I'm really enjoying his character development. It's a fresh take on his story and they're treating it with care, which I really appreciate. His Antitrix aliens also have some really incredible designs.

Cool powers, uncommon character in children's media, especially as a primary character often cast in a good light (ex con, high school dropout, masculine, not emotionally mature). His character development is some of the best in the series.

Gods, we could be here forever... Okay, short version- 1) I can relate to him on a mental health level, especially in the OG series we seemed to have similar issues and to handle them in similar ways 2) there's a lot of depth and variance to his character, he's angry and aggressive and dangerous but also a dork, a sweetheart, and very affectionate once he lets his walls down, he loves cars and supernatural romance, violence and magical girls, he'll rescue an aggressive dog for no reason other than it needed help but also he might consider how much he could get for selling you, he's a complex character and he's allowed to be in a way the Tennysons can't because of how firmly they sit in the Hero seat 3) for all of this, we never really know all that much about him and his experiences, at least in comparison to what we know is there- we never learn about his time traveling the galaxy, we haven't heard anything about his time stuck in time, it's only in the reboot we're getting trustworthy information about his background and even then it's rare tidbits- he's ripe for exploring in fic, headcanon, and so-on 4) his powers in the OG series, his status as mutant or alien or both who knows anymore leaves a lot of doors open to play and to look at the world through different angles 5) dude has turned into six different monstrous chimera forms over the course of the franchise and honestly you have to support that sort've shit in media otherwise they might stop

Rook -

Alien catboy with a glorious voice and have you seen those arms??? And he's so polite while also being hilarious when he gets a little rude/snarky and his character development is amazing!!

While I would normally say Ben himself, Rook is his only friend that hasn't tried to kill him. Additionally, he provides Ben with guidance as well as support the Gwen and Kevin are fickle about.

Having an actual alien joining the cast and serving at Ben's foil worked well to me.

Gwen -

Smart, talented, funny, snarky, confident, and super cute. Jock-prep-nerd energy all in one. Deserves the world. Criminally ignored by the majority of the fandom. Knows karate and judo?? College at 16?? Icon.

Angel, can do no wrong, was capable of so much more than the show let her do, potential to be the most powerful member of the team if they'd just let her go a lil feral sometimes :/

She was a good voice of reason most of the time. Her powers were really interesting and overall I think she had a lot of wasted potential having to be sidelined since the series was about Ben ultimately

Q2. Favourite minor characters

40 votes - Paradox

22 votes - Max Tennyson

18 votes - Tetrax

17 votes - Argit

16 votes - Julie Yamamoto

15 votes - Azmuth

12 votes - Ester

10 votes - Looma Red Wind

9 votes - Glitch

9 votes - Kai Green

7 votes - Alan Albright

6 votes - Jimmy Jones

4 votes - Cooper Daniels

3 votes - Eunice

3 votes - Helen Wheels

2 votes - Elena Validus

2 votes - Manny Armstrong

1 vote - Cash Murray

1 vote - Driba

Other votes went to Penny Bennyson, Kenny Tennyson/Spanner, Lucy Mann, Rook Shar, Eddie Grandsmith, Myaxx and Pakmar.

Q3. Ship or Zed

64% - Ship 36% - Zed

Q4. Favourite main antagonist

20% - Albedo 13.3% - Kevin 11 12% - Vilgax 10.7% - Charmcaster 10.7% - Zs’Skayr 9.3% - Malware 5.3% - Forever Knights 5.3% - Eon 4% - Highbreed & DNAliens 4% - Aggregor 1.3% - Servantis & Rooters 1.3% - Khyber 1.3% - Dagon & the Esoterica

Some ‘Why’ responses for top 3:

Albedo -

When I first saw him during the airing of Good Copy, Bad Copy, I was scared that Albedo might be a one-and-done evil clone that doesn't get much development. These fears went away, and I was pleased to find out about his backstory and motives, just a sour soul in an unpleasant situation. Even in Ultimate Alien with his reappearance episode, he tries to work on his own to cope in a horrid human world. He isn't necessarily malicious until Ben gets in his way, he just wants to return to his own body and leave, even stating that he wasn't going to fight Ben anymore while he had temporarily returned to his Galvan form. I know DJW stated in some interview that Albedo could never be redeemed, but I believe there's some hope if he gets help. And I'm a sucker for those redemption arcs :)

Tragic frog man that could have been helped but nobody helped him and he doubled down on his hatred which led to him getting stuck in a cycle of revenge and punishment and it's the tragedy of how much better things could have been for him if someone just helped him that I love so much!!

Kevin 11 -

He’s very dangerous and has a terrifying power to absorb electricity and living DNA to have the same powers of who he absorbed it from and even turn himself into a mutant with all those powers combined leading to destructive power

Kevin was a good antagonist and a good protagonist, although i feel the transition was rushed. Anti-hero kevin in the reboot is great!

Vilgax -

He was always the endgame villian for Ben, despite how many battles they've had, despite countless losses, he always tried to stay one step ahead, and plan everything.

"Speak with care, Psyphon. Your counsel is valuable...not irreplaceable."

Q5. Favourite minor villains

38 votes - Animo 20 votes - Hex 18 votes - Michael Morningstar/Darkstar 14 votes - SixSix 13 votes - Zombozo 9 votes - Vreedle family 9 votes - Vulkanus 8 votes - Rojo 5 votes - Inspector 13 5 votes - Billy Billions 5 votes - Will Harangue 4 votes - Fistrick 4 votes - Nyancy Chan 3 votes - Lord Decibel 3 votes - Simian 3 votes - Subdora 3 votes - Viktor 2 votes - Addwaitya 2 votes - Fistina 2 votes - Kraab 2 votes - Psyphon 2 votes - Steam Smythe 2 votes - Sunder 1 vote - Liam 1 vote - Ssserpent

Other votes went to Maurice & Sydney, Bugg Brothers, Alternate evil Bens, and the Mummy.

Q6. Favourite canon relationship

66.7% - Gwen & Kevin 13.3% - Max Tennyson & Verdona 5.3% - Ben & Kai 4% - Rook & Rayona 1.3% - Julie & Herve 1.3% - Max & Xylene

Q7. Favourite non-canon ship

36% - I don’t have one 30.7% - Ben & Rook 6.7% - Ben & Kevin 4% - Ben & Julie

Other responses included Ben & Rex, Kai & Julie, Looma & Attea, Alan & Cooper, Ben & Looma, Kevin & Manny, Gwen & Cooper, Ben & Ester, Max & Phil, Azmuth & Paradox, Cooper & Elena, Kai & Ester, Ben & Zak Saturday, Ben & Eddie, Ben & Albedo, Ben & Kevin & Gwen, Kenny & Devlin, OC & canon, and Ben & a therapist.

Q8. Favourite alien introduced in the Original Series

18.7% - XLR8 17.3% - Upgrade 13.3% - Ghostfreak 10.7% - Diamondhead 9.3% - Heatblast 8% - Wildmutt 6.7% - Ditto 2.7% - Blitzwolfer 2.7% - Snare-oh 2.7% - Grey Matter 1.3% - Cannonbolt 1.3% - Four Arms

Q9. Least favourite alien introduced in the Original Series

22.7% - Eye Guy 18.7% - Spitter 8% - Articguana 8% - Frankenstrike 6.7% - Upchuck 6.7% - Stinkfly 5.3% - Buzzshock 5.3% - Snare-oh 4% - Four Arms 2.7% - Blitzwolfer 2.7% - Ditto 2.7% - Wildmutt 2.7% - Grey Matter 1.3% - Cannonbolt 1.3% - Diamondhead 1.3% - Ghostfreak

Q10. Favourite alien introduced in Alien Force

46.7% - Big Chill 17.3% - Rath 8% - Goop 6.7% - Lodestar 5.3% - Swampfire 4% - Chromastone 4% - Spidermonkey 2.7% - Alien X 2.7% - Echo Echo 1.3% - Humungousaur 1.3% - Jetray

Q11. Least favourite alien introduced in Alien Force

18.7% - Lodestar 17.3% - Brainstorm 13.3% - Alien X 10.7% - Humungousaur 10.7% - Spidermonkey 8% - Jetray 8% - Chromastone 5.3% - Goop 5.3% - Echo Echo 2.7% - Rath

Q12. Favourite alien introduced in Ultimate Alien

18.7% - Juryrigg 16% - AmpFibian 14.7% - Clockwork 12% - NRG 8% - Armodrillo 8% - Shocksquatch 8% - Terraspin 8% - Water Hazard 2.7% - Chamalien 2.7% - Fasttrack 1.3% - Eatle

Q13. Least favourite alien introduced in Ultimate Alien

30.7% - Fasttrack 18.7% - Eatle 13.3% - Juryrigg 9.3% - Chamalien 8% - Shocksquatch 6.7% - Terraspin 5.3% - Water Hazard 4% - Clockwork 1.3% - AmpFibian 1.3% - Armodrillo 1.3% - NRG

Q14. Favourite Ultimate Form

38.7% - Echo Echo 24% - Big Chill 10.7% - Swampfire 9.3% - Way Big 8% - Wildmutt 6.7% - Spidermonkey 1.3% - Cannonbolt 1.3% - Humungousaur

Q15. Favourite alien introduced in Omniverse

29.3% - Feedback 13.3% - Pesky Dust 12% - Gravattack 9.3% - Ball Weevil 8% - Bullfrag 6.7% - Whampire 5.3% - Bloxx 4% - Atomix 4% - Walkatrout 2.7% - Gutrot 1.3% - Crashhopper 1.3% - Kickin Hawk 1.3% - Toepick 1.3% - The Worst

Q16. Least favourite alien introduced in Omniverse

24% - The Worst 14.7% - Bloxx 12% - Mole-Stache 8% - Bullfrag 6.7% - Astrodactyl 6.7% - Kickin Hawk 5.3% - Atomix 5.3% - Gutrot 4% - Crashhopper 4% - Walkatrout 2.7% - Toepick 1.3% - Ball Weevil

Q17. Favourite alternate Ben timeline

29.3% - No watch Ben 24% - Gwen 10 17.3% - Ben 10,000 8% - Mad Ben 6.7% - Dimension 23 6.7% - Eon 4% - Nega Ben 2.7% - Benzarro 1.3% - Bad Ben

Misc.

Q1. Favourite watch design

37.3% - Original Series 29.3% - Omniverse 17.3% - Alien Force 9.3% - Ultimatrix 6.7% - Reboot

Q2. Favourite alternate watch design

29.3% - Biomnitrix 20% - Gwen 10 18.7% - Negatrix 17.3% - Antitrix 8% - Power Watch 6.7% - Hero Watch

Q3. Favourite planet visited

32% - Anur Transyl 20% - Revonnah 13.3% - Mykdl’dy 10.7% - Galvan Prime 9.3% - Vilgaxia 6.7% - Piscciss 5.3% - Petropia 2.7% - Khoros

Q4. Favourite locations

34 votes - Undertown 23 votes - Ledgerdomain 23 votes - Null Void 22 votes - Bellwood 19 votes - Friedkin University 18 votes - Mr. Smoothy 16 votes - Forge of Creation 15 votes - Los Soledad 7 votes - Burger Shack 7 votes - Plumber Headquarters 4 votes - Incarcecon 2 votes - Mt. Rushmore Plumber base 2 votes - The Perplexahedron 1 vote - Plumber Academy

Q5. Favourite Vehicle

33.3% - Kevin’s car (Original) 25.3% - Rustbucket 18.7% - Proto-TRUK 13.3% - DX Mark 10 5.3% - Kevin’s car (Omniverse) 4% - Glitch

Q6. Favourite Kevin mutation

40% - Original series 20% - Ken 10 future 12% - Ultimate Alien 8% - Omniverse 8% - Alien Force 6.7% - Omniverse flashback 5.3% - Reboot

Q7. Favourite Omniverse redesign

66.7% - Ben 26.6% - Kevin 6.7% - Gwen

Q8. Least favourite Omniverse redesign

76% - Gwen 18.7% - Kevin 5.3% - Ben

Thoughts

(Putting every single response here would make this insanely long so I’ve just put the most detailed/most echoed responses & include all sides of opinions when possible.)

Q1. Thoughts on the Osmosians retcon?

Okay, first up, do you know how much work I had already put into building shit surrounding those fuckers by the time of the retcons? I had been working on this crap since AF season 2! But no, they gotta go ruin that in one fell swoop, thank you, much appreciated. Second up, I wibble on it? Like, working with mutants is fun and interesting and I've done plenty of shit with them as well, but in the end I'm always going to be a pro-Ossys person. Mostly the retcons left more questions than they gave answers (how, if Osmosians never existed, did everybody and their mother know Kevin was an Osmosian? why, if Osmosians never existed, did none of the people not-involved in this whole disaster with Servantis's mindfuckery look at Aggregor being reported as an Osmosian and go 'wtf that's not a thing'? do they really mean to tell me that not only did Kevin never bother to look into his heritage, but neither did research-happy Gwen? or am I expected to believe the Rooters made enough fake information and put it out publicly that they fooled literally everyone? and if they did then why? when it would've done the same thing with less effort if they'd just, let Kevin be a mutant with a Plumber father who died) and I feel like they didn't really give enough to justify them. One of those cases of 'making your work less interesting to make it more 'accurate''. Personally, I forever keep working on Osmosians (where's the line where it just starts becoming your shit, I think I may be heading there) and I love on mutants and I flip between or combine the two as needed for whatever story I want to tell.

While the fake memories plot isn't great I think it's for the best because the original series meant for Kevin to be a mutant while UAF changed it to alien. I like him better as a mutant human. Too much alien connections in UAF.

I could scream for hours. Easily one of the worst decisions they ever made. Omniverse picks and chooses what canon to follow from AFUA + the original run and throws it in without care or concern to what it means for the timeline. Retconning something and keeping the effect it had is just bad writing. Kevin coming to terms with not being human and that’s okay was important to me when I was a kid. Knowing that he’s just been on an unending series of brainwashed nonsense all his life deprives him of his agency. I hate this decision more than several dozen essays could ever convey.

I wasn't mad about it. Mainly because I liked the idea of Kevin being a mutant than an alien. Alien Force really was pushing that aspect even with Gwen. To the point where she called her powers 'not spells' because of her heritage. Stupid that the rooters and fake memories were a thing, but necessary.

I was never a big fan of the Rooters Arc, but this doesn't bother me too much. It makes UA a little weird with Aggragor, but again, it doesn't really bother me, as most of Omniverse didn't explore Kevin (While UA Did), and was mostly about Ben.

Osmosians were such a cool idea, and it would've allowed for more exploration into what Mike Morningstar was as well, but just writing them off as mutates is so boring. As well as it makes Aggregors whole part not really make sense, like who is he then.

While well executed, it was unnecessary. You could have had the same story line where Kevin was used to mutate other kids and still had him an Alien. You could have had it where it was another alien species that used Osmosians to morph other species to theirs; a call back to the DNAliens if you want.

Q2. Thoughts on how the Ultimate Kevin situation was dealt with in UA?

Terrible. They wanted to go far. They wanted to go dark. But they didn't think their viewership could handle it so they dialed it back. I will always be curious to know what they would have written if they didn't have those constraints. Because the final product was a mess of contrasting tone and unsure footing about how far to go with questioning our hero's moral compass. They wanted to push Ben to see what he would do and apparently, we got that he would kill Kevin and maybe Gwen if she got in the way of saving the universe.... but not really because he didn't. And then the gang is happy all back together like none of it ever happened. They wanted to explore dark themes but have it leave no consequences on the characters. Also... it was so ableist and awful and Kevin deserved better than how Ben and Max (and the writers) treated him.

If they did everything the same but the argument was 'we need to capture him and lock him away' instead of 'we need to kill him'? I would be fine. It's the fact that they slipped so quickly into murder, into murder by his 16-yo bestfriend, that gets me. Like, there's apparently no space between 'recklessly risk our safety trying to talk him down' and 'Ol' Yeller his ass' and that just does not sit right with me.

Ben should have looked for alternate solutions before jumping on the "Let's kill Kevin" train. I understand why he did (this took place immediately post-Aggregor so Ben was still traumatized about having lost so many people and because he failed and "let" Kevin get turned into Ultimate Kevin, he felt as though every person Kevin hurt would be on him) but I wish he hadn't.

Pretty good actually. I like Gwen's emotions becoming a hindrance to the job, I like Ben putting on his big boy pants and I like Kevin going up to Aggregor and saying "y'know, I was a big boy villain once and I'm tried of just getting kicked around" (obviously paraphrasing)

Other than the scenario being overplayed, I think Ben was right. Kevin was eventually going to end up killing Gwen and he'd already put others in the hospital. He needed to be stopped.

Ben jumping straight to murder, yikes. Kevin dismissing Gwen to hang out with Ben almost as soon as he turned back to normal, yikes. Otherwise, it was an interesting plotline.

Really bad. Really shows how awful max and the plumbers really are. I mean , the guy saved the universe and now he clearly needs help but all they wanted to do was kill him.

it really felt like Ben just wanted to murder Kevin because he saved the universe that one time and Ben couldn't stand someone else being the hero for once

The worst, Max straight away wanting to put him down makes u wonder how long he's been waiting for that kind of opportunity.

I'm fine with it, maybe they could have spent some time dealing with the consequences of Kevin's actions, possibly even the ramifications it had on Ben and Kevin's friendship, but overall I'm ok with it.

Q3. Thoughts on the Plumbers

Plumbers ain't shit. Individuals can be acceptable or not but the organization as a whole has too much power, not enough oversight, utilizes child labor, uses a deathtrap of a hellscape dimension as a penal colony, has been shown onscreen sentencing people to imprisonment in said dimension without a trial, and I'm sorry the fact that a Plumber official could walk into a base with his team, assault several members of staff, attempt to kidnap a boy, admit to having and planning to continue to run illegal experiments on him and others, admit to having altered the memories of other Plumber officials, all in front of the entire base, and nothing was done until he tried to kill the golden child Ben 10 and failed, got his ass kicked by one of his victims, and in a place where presumably there were security cameras? And that the response was, again, to sentence him and his team without trial, take all the evidence, and peace out without so much as looking at nonetheless apologizing to his victims? Yeah, that don't fly. Doesn't sound like an organization that has it's shit together. Either the Plumbers don't have their shit together or the higher ups were in on it until it became something that could actually damage their reputation, and either way I Do Not Approve.

They're pretty cool. I know everyone's talking about how Plumbers are space cops and therefore absolutely corrupt and bad but this is a fictional universe in which corruption in organized forces isn't a necessity. Plumbers don't function the same way real cops do, they don't follow they same chain of command, they don't have the same motivations and they definitely don't have the same biases. Plumbers perform an essential function in the Ben 10 universe, which is to capture and contain aliens who aim to hurt anyone (or those who Ben defeats).

My knowledge of the Plumbers' unfortunately doesn't go beyond UA. They're not my favorite thing ever. Some of my least favorite episodes were the ones where the Plumbers or Plumbers' kids are involved, except for the episode "Everybody Talks About the Weather". The way Alan is introduced is really cool and very X Files-esque, and it ties into the DNAlien plot very well. But throughout the series I stopped caring about the Plumbers in general and I think that concept was given too much attention.

They don't do what they're meant to. They act like heros yet I don't think I've ever seen them do anything heroic. The DNAliens situation, the aggregor situation, dagon etc etc. Where were they??? Why did they leave the fate of the universe in the hands of a 16 year-old boy? Ben has the omnitrix sure , but he's still just one guy, how much can he fight? They showed up every once in a while but that's it. They were useless.

Of course the Plumbers have their problems, but looking at most characters we've met that were plumbers seem to be pretty good people. Max, Patelliday and Rook (and even Kevin, technically) are great examples of Plumbers, Servantis being a bad example of one.

Honestly liked it when it was disbanded. It’s cool they introduced Rook but like there’s so much wrong with how they run most things. My favorite version of the plumbers was tbh the first live action movie. Where it was just a bunch of old people watching out for Ben cause they actually cared about the people they protected (in this case Ben).

Q4. Thoughts on Grandpa Max

(The responses to this one were way more divided than I thought they would be omg)

He said Kevin was a mad dog that needed to put down. He's terrible. Military. Secretive. Kept his kids out of the loop and probably told the grandkids not to tell them about a huge and extremely dangerous part of their lives. Thus creating a gap between them and their parents that didn't need to be there. Child endangerment. Other than that....? He's important to Ben and Gwen so I tolerate him and he had some good life lessons to share. Also legendary adult figure in a kids cartoon who had relationships with multiple aliens.

He’s incredible, he worked in the Air Force, was going to be one of the first people on the moon (But he refused because he joined the Plumbers) had children with an Energy Being, he has a few grandchildren, and not to mention knows how to still kick butt despite him being in his 60s and was there to help Ben grow

He’s a complicated old man. Love him to bits in the original run and I love him in AF! He’s a utilitarian doing what needs to be done and suffering the consequences when need be. He does what he thinks is going to lead to the best possible outcome for the most people in any situation.

Needs to get knocked off his pedestal more often, both in and out of canon. He's got good traits, they're very nice, but there's other shit that gets glossed over, ignored, brushed aside, too easily forgiven, and just. They really needed a character who served double duty being a counterforce to him. Somebody to go 'wtf is wrong with you?' or 'yeah, no'. Ideally this would've been Patilidae, but no. We couldn't be so lucky.

Conflicted. Was he grooming Ben for plumber work, or just trying to support him in a situation he knew would be dangerous? It’s not made very clear...

I think he's got some sort of narcissistic personality disorder. I just can't forgive him for making Ben carry the burden of the Omnitrix at the age of 10 without ever explaining anything, and for not letting Ben and Gwen know he was alive after the Null Void grenade incident in AF. He clearly could have, if Helen could reach Gwen so easily. I think he views Ben more as an asset than a grandson at this point and that's really sad.

I love him! The progression from family hero to questionable old man felt kinda natural, like learning about a family member as you grow older and realizing they aren't perfect

He's awesome. He was a good role model for Ben and he was very supportive to both his grandkids. I hate that they made him mute in Omniverse and changed his design so drastically. I loved Max in every season from the original till Ultimate Alien. After that, he was pretty much just a prop.

Q5. And finally, give me your most controversial Ben 10 opinion!

It seems to be the worst thing to say that Ben isn't perfect and that Kai isn't demonic. And it's pretty standard for the women of color characters in every fandom to get the most hate so to me all the hate towards Kai when her personality is so close to Ben's AND she's also more hated than the ex-villain and the actual villains that tried to kill Ben multiple times just seems- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. But really, and really I've needed to say this for a long time but I'm afraid of being strangled. Some fans will denounce incest/pedo shippers and people that interact with them and then reblog from a proud Bwen shipper with no self-awareness. Please I have the tags blacklisted are you safe to interact with and you just don't know? Or you're just saying you hate Bwen shippers to give yourself an out for reblogging their content????? Or are you all closeted incest shippers trying to maintain a public image???? I'm at my limit.

I do not think the reboot should have existed tbh :,D I know that it has a ton of fans and all due respect to them, but from what I've seen of it I don't think it was worth tossing away four interconnected series' worth of development and starting from scratch to end up with what we have now. I would be fine with it existing if we got an Omniverse continuation alongside it, but CN screwed OV over by the decisions they made near the end of it's run. So it's probably impossible it would return, even moreso because of the reboot already airing, and it would probably confuse younger audiences that don't know about Omniverse if two Ben 10's were running separately. I just really miss Omniverse, it had more potential and the reboot placed the final nail in for it to ever return.

The Ben 10 reboot is fun and meant more for kids rather than the ones watching for nostalgia. I didn’t like how Gwevin were sidelined and downplayed to make Ben look better. Sometimes it felt like Gwen was a bit naggy towards the two of them. I didn’t like how the fact that she was the only female lead how she had sometimes act like a parent or that they put Gwen and Kevin together just because. Their relationship felt forced and awkward a lot of the time. Omniverse’s designs while controversial were fun and unique but I didn’t like what they did with Gwevin, especially Gwen.

Kevin is totally smart enough to figure out an Omnitrix with the blueprints in front of him, we see him do amazing shit with technology- including the Omnitrix- in the OG series, people just don't notice he's as brilliant as Gwen because the show never made it as big a point that he and Ben were so very smart like it did with her before the reboot, so now they're being forced to acknowledge that Kevin might have two braincells to rub together and they're pushing against the supposed 'change'.

idk if it's controversial but there should've been way more episodes of just gwen & kevin & rook without ben or ben having a very minor role in the episode. just more time for those three to shine and show off how capable they are without ben always having to come in to save the day at the end

Gwen and Kevin aren't good friends to Ben. I mean they were initially, but once he got famous and they didn't, they stopped putting more than a half-assed effort to help him. They also don't really consider his feelings nor really care about the toll heroing takes on him.

The Reboot has the best jokes in the entire franchise and I don't why people give it so much crap.

Kai Green is an abuser and I refuse to find anything redeemable about her character. "Worthy to wield Excalibur," my entire ass. And Ben and Julie's breakup was good for them both, as people, and just as much her fault as it was his.

Ben 10 is an incredibly flawed show and people need to stop getting butt hurt when the blatant misogyny, and copoganda in the show get pointed out or when any even minority critiques Ben's character.

Ben is the worst character in Ben 10 and the whole franchise would be better off without him.

Azmuth is fine for the most part and malware was not exactly the most understanding person

I think Ben should've stayed single. Every episode where romance (or the girl Ben was dating) was the focus of the episode was pretty boring to me, personally.

Ben's parents were right to try to stop him from being a hero, so were Gwen's.

Ultimate alien force season 2 and 3 were amazing.( not comparing the OS since obviously that's the best, or omniverse since I haven't watched all the episodes of that)

Pierce deserved to die for being a boring character. I just wish his death had actual consequences.

The reboot is a genuine improvement over the original continuity in MANY ways!

Oh geez, um, Kai was a good character, just her and ben were obviously toxic. Not everyone needs to like Ben and she isn't an abuser, they just don't get along and that's fine but by God, why did the writers have to force them in a relationship? That's all I could really think of on the spot. Oh! And that the first two season of AF were a watered down version of Ben and the plot focused more on Gwen and Kevin than it did Ben. He felt like a side character and I'm not mad about that, but I don't understand why people praise that characterization of ben when I remember more about gwen and Kevin then Ben. Dude, I've been watching the show for the past week and I can name more about kevin and gwen because they're memorable.

Azmuth's hot af, but y'all aren't ready for that conversation...

----

If you’ve made it this far then thank you!

Again huge thank you to everyone who submitted a response and if you have any questions/comments please feel free to leave them in the replies/send me an ask/dm/whatever ^^

#ben 10 #ben 10 alien force #ben 10 ultimate alien #ben 10 omniverse #ben tennyson #b10 #gwen tennyson #kevin levin #rook blonko #WE DID IT LADS #looking back there were SO many questions i couldve added like more directly fandom related ones but ehhhhh live and learn i guess #it was fun to do anyway :3

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jawritter · 4 years ago

Text

You and Me...

Chapter 19

***SERIES WARNINGS**** Rape, non con, male!rape, injury, violence, discription of injury caused by rape, nightmares, self harm, panick attackes, implied female non con, language, ass hole Jensen, hurt!jensen, dark fic, smut. If there is anything else I will add it as I go.

***Chatper Warnings*** None really, language, fluff maybe?

Pairing: Jensen Ackles x Reader

Word Count: 1582

A/N: As always all mistakes are mine!, Please do not copy my work!! Feedback is gold! I hope you enjoy this one!

Summery: It’s funny how one choice you made can change your whole life. One mistake can alter you course, and set you on a path that forever will haunt you. Two people find themselves getthing through one of the hardest trials of Jensen’s life, on just one small promise. You and Me. We’ll get through it together…

Want more? Check out my masterlist!!

***MASTERLIST***

***YOU AND ME MASTERLIST***

"Are you serious right now? You want to drive to Vancouver? Why the hell do you want to drive to Vancouver?" You asked Jensen, eyes wide in shock.

He was standing there grinning like an idiot, holding the keys to a beautiful black 1968 AMC AMX that had two white racing stripes running down the car, obviously quite proud of himself..

"Yeah, just you and me." Jensen said, still grinning like a little kid.

"Jensen the car is beautiful, but that's almost a three day drive?! Babe that's gonna be expensive." You tell him, you couldn't help but grin a little at his excitement for his new toy.

You knew you were fighting a losing battle, once Jensen had made him mind up about something there was no changing it. When he disappeared this morning for a few hours you thought he was gone to see his kids, or the store, you didn’t really question him when he left the house.

You would have never guessed he’d have shown up with this very expensive looking sports car… Announcing that you were about to take a “road trip” to Vancouver.

"So. More time for the two of us to be together. When I'm done with the car I'll sell it, and donate the money to a charity." He said with a shrug.

You keep forgetting that Jensen's perception of money, and yours is completely different. He doesn't flaunt it often at all, but the man is loaded. So something begging ‘expensive’ didn’t really deter him from his goal here..

Jensen bits down on his lower lip, and salters over to where you are standing in front of the bar in the kitchen. The look on his face makes you blush a little, and look away from his mischievous green eyes that were openly roaming your body.

Ever since yesterday morning when he woke up, and the two of you had made love he'd been acting different. More relaxed, less stressed out, less on edge. He was more himself. The cocky, attractive actor you'd meet in the studio that morning was back.

While you didn’t hate it atll, it was taking you some getting used too, because if you thought he had an effect on you before, man did he have one on you now..

The fire that was burning in his eyes again excited you. You felt like maybe, just maybe he was finally getting better...

Wrapping his arms around your waist Jensen pulls you close to him. Looking you over like he was seriously thinking about throwing you over the bar and having his way with you. A pantie melting smirk plastered over his perfect lips...

"Come on baby, you and me. Just the two of us. Since we got together it's been one fucking tragedy right after another. Hell I haven't even got to bring you on a proper date. Let's take this opportunity to get away. Make some memories that aren't revolving around the fucked up situation that we've been swimming in for months now. Let's get the hell out of here, and really get to know each other. "

Leaning down before you could even answer him he captures your lips in his, kissing you in a way that makes you melt into him.

It was going to take you some time to get used to this new found confidence in him, and if he kept kissing you like this, then he was going to get you to do pretty much whatever he wanted to do.. Because saying no to him when he was being this way just wasn’t an option for you.

"Come on honey, we're gonna have to go to Vancouver, and get another apartment to live in while I'm filming. When I finally do start filming our schedule is gonna get crazy. Let's take this drive together... Maybe a few..." He leaned down kissing your neck again. "Stops along the way. I wanna get closer to you baby, I can't think of a better way to get to know each other than to leave all this shit behind, nothing but you and me and the road."

He was looking deep into your eyes now. Making it hard to concentrate. All the flirty jokingness gone, and seriousness taking over his features, he really wanted to do this…

"Okay! Okay! When do you want to do this?" You asked him, wrapping your arms around his neck, and pulling yourself closer to him.

Smirking like he’d won some great prize for the day, he leans down and brushes your lips with his. Pressing his growing bulge closer to your center…

"Hmmm... Next week…. Gives us time to get everything ready here at home before we leave."

A loud pounding on the front door made him groan into your neck.

"See my point of why I wanna get you out of here." He leaned down to whisper in your ear, not knowing who was at the door. "Just when I was about to take you back to bed someone shows up at the front door." He said in a deep husky voice, leaving you weak legged leaning against the bar to go answer the door.

Before you even had a chance to recover you heard Jared’s voice booming from the front of the house..

"Where the actual fuck did you get that car!"

You and Jensen both burst out in a fit of laughter, and Jensen led his friend into the house to where he left you standing.

Reaching into the refrigerator you grab a few beers, and hand them to Jensen…

"Bought it today. Y/n and myself are going to drive it up to Vancouver next week." He said, handing a beer to a slack jawed Jared.

"Really?!" He asked, wide eyed looking back and forth between the two of you...

"Yep, we're headed out next Saturday." Jensen said, getting behind you, and pulling your back against his chest. Jared smiled at the slight action between the two of you. One you didn’t even really pay attention to, but Jared didn’t miss how much Jensen seemed to be more relaxed than he was just a week ago..

"Well you two deserve it." Jared said. "You've been through a lot over the past few months. You need a little time to yourselves."

Jensen nodded kissing the side of your neck. "That's the idea."

"Well I'll get to business, and I'll leave you two love birds alone." Jared said, flopping down on a bar stool and pulling out some papers for Jensen.

You kissed Jensen on the check, and unwrapped his arms from around your middle, and made your way towards the living room, knowing if you kept standing there Jared wasn’t going to get Jensen to pay attention whatever he needed him to do..

When Jensen had first shown up this morning with the car and the announcement that he had planned on driving all the way from Austin to Vancouver, you weren’t sure you were totally on board with taking that far of a road trip, but the more you thought about, the more you couldn’t help but smile…

Jensen was right about one thing, you too had been through so much shit, you needed to get away just as much as he did, and who in their right mind would be opposed to taking a road trip with Jensen…

Jensen's POV:

Jensen watched as you made your way over to the couch with your laptop in hand, sitting down crossing your legs, and grabbing a throw pillow to sit on your lap, making it easier to type away on your computer, nose scrunched up in concentration.

Ever since yesterday morning he hadn’t been able to take his eyes off of you. It was like he saw what he'd been missing all this time for the first time. He wanted more, he needed to be closer to you. He wanted to make up for all the lost time that it felt like the two of you had missed out on because of what happened to him.

When he almost lost you it had thrown him into a perspective he wished he didn't’ have to almost lose you to see.. He was finally able to allow himself to take control of his body, and mind again. For the first time in a long time he felt like himself.

Jared cleared his throat sitting next to him. Jerking Jensen's attention back to him. Jared laughed loudly at his friend shaking his head a little as he reshuffled the paperwork in front of him..

"I'm glad to see your back Jay. I was worried you'd never be the same, but I see more of you this morning than I have in a long time." Jared said, and Jensen nodded his head, eyes trailing back over to where you were sitting...

Jare drowned on about convention schedule and things, but Jensen didn’t hear much of it. All he wanted was to get you alone, just you and him.

This road trip was just what the two of you needed, he was sure of it. This was going to be a life changing event. He was determined of that…

For the first time in a long time he knew what he wanted, and what he needed, and that was you, so why wait another minute… It was time to make some changes, this time for the better, it was time to do things right...

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#jensnen ackles #jensen ackles series #jensen ackles x reader #jensen ackles x you #jensen ackles fanfiction #jensen ackles fanfic #jensen x reader #jensen x you #hurt!jensen #hurt/comfort fic #dark fic #jensne ackles dark fic #spn dark fic #spn fanfiction #spn fanfic #spn series #dean winchester #jawrriter #you and me

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multsicorn · 5 years ago

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this may or may not be a pimping post

Before I got into The Untamed, what I knew was: yeah, it’s gay. It’s a tv show from China, so there’s censorship, but the two main guys really are in love. They get married, they have a child together. All of which is true! And none of which is enough to make me watch something, guys. So what’s the story? Well:

In fantasy ancient China, against a background of intrigue and strife between powerful clans of magic-users (aka ‘cultivators’)… two young men meet at school, flirt, and become friends. As the aforementioned strife explodes into all-out war, the free-spirited Wei Wuxian starts using dark (aka ‘demonic’) magic, and eventually finds himself in opposition to the rest of the clans. Caught between the rogue necromancer he loves and the rules of the world he believes in, what will the virtuous Lan Wangji do?

(and after a time-skip, sixteen years later, after Wei Wuxian has died and come back to life - that’s not a spoiler, it’s the start of the show - when the demonic magic that Wei Wuxian developed and the power struggle among the clans that killed him are still around, and again making trouble, how will Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian overcome these dangers, and finally get their shit together?)

THAT’S the story. Doesn’t that sound more interesting?

And I love so many many things about it, I just had to try to make a list.

~~~~~~

First off, The Untamed is DELICIOUSLY TROPETASTIC. IDDY AS FUCK. etc. Let me count some of the AO3 tags:

There is so much hurt/comfort. Wei Wuxian, especially, gets hurt, threatened, tied or locked up, etc., so many times throughout this show, and we get to dwell on his suffering so much. Lan Wangji’s frequently there to protect him and/or help him recover! And it goes the other way round, too: Lan Wangji gets hurt or threatened, and Wei Wuxian heals or protects him.

There is… not quite huddling for warmth? But Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji get trapped together in a cave, not just once, but twice! The second scene goes so far as to include some undressing on the premise of ‘let me get out of these wet clothes,’ and sleeping sitting up next to each other.

For that matter, there’s multiple instances of undressing for ‘important plot reasons.’ Multiple instances of carrying or attempting to carry each other, for ‘important plot reasons.’ And Wei Wuxian putting Lan Wangji to bed (so tenderly!) for ‘important plot reasons.’

SO MANY people get tied up SO MUCH I’m just saying. I kept noticing it ^__^.

There’s a pair of older (not-explicitly-canon) male cultivators who are wandering the world together, basically doing exactly what Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji want to do, showing them that it’s possible.

Speaking of ‘after the time-skip’ - like I said, Wei Wuxian dies and is resurrected. Lan Wangji not only mourns him for sixteen years, but also takes in and raises a young boy who Wei Wuxian had introduced as his own son. (That’s the ‘have a child together’ part, and also canon kidfic, and I don’t even go there but it’s so adorable.)

Again, speaking of ‘they’re just this canon’ - they go through several key of traditional Chinese courtship and wedding rituals together, WITHOUT EVER TALKING ABOUT IT, cause it’s just, apparently, something they silently agree to do. (And Wei Wuxian touches Lan Wangji’s ‘only for parent, children, and spouses’ ~sacred forehead ribbon~ several times, starting in episode six.)

~~~~~~

Some more of my FAVORITE THINGS EVER that aren’t quite so smush-em-together:

Lan Wangji HUMS A SONG for Wei Wuxian when they’re trapped in mortal peril in a cave - BY WHICH HE THEN RECOGNIZES Wei Wuxian when Wei Wuxian plays it almost twenty years later.

Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji are so drift compatible. Whether they’re investigating or fighting or playing duets or doing magic, they trust each other implicitly, and grow to understand each other so well that they can eventually communicate with simply a look.

There are multiple times when Lan Wangji holds Wei Wuxian back from ~going too far,~ when Wei Wuxian’s being influenced by the demonic magic. Lan Wangji knows Wei Wuxian just that well; Lan Wangji’s grip on Wei Wuxian’s wrist is enough to stop him. And sometimes it isn’t! Multiple times, also, Lan Wangji attacks Wei Wuxian with his sword, not even in spite of but because of the fact that he cares (so very much!) about him. And there’s multiple times when Wei Wuxian (almost, or actually) invites Lan Wangji to kill him - only, specifically, Lan Wangji - if that’s what needs doing.

(That whole paragraph above is literally MY FAVORITE THING EVER, I could go a far way towards obsession just from that alone. Being honest about myself here.)

And then there’s Wei Wuxian as a character: his endless questioning of rules and accepted ways of doing things. The restlessness, both physical and intellectual, that makes him so much fun to watch, all the time, cause he’ll never sit still, or stop running his mouth. The way he’s constantly delighted by every little thing, food and wine and his own cleverness. Whenever everything else has paused for a bit, he is still A DELIGHT.

And THEN, there’s Wei Wuxian building a whole new home (and ~found family~, but, like, literally, they’re compared directly to his family-of-origin which he’s been forced by plot reasons to leave behind) for himself from the ground up in the Burial Mounds. At the height of the conflict! He’s figuring out how to grow lotus roots, and trying to make enough money for other food by selling (the subtitles say turnips, but it looks like daikon), hiding away and building houses and inventing on a cursed mountainside.

~~~~~

And it’s not all about the main characters! The most important of the general themes above: suffering, comfort and protection, restraining or fighting with people you love - recur among many secondary characters. I couldn’t list how many relationships of loyalty and obligation, conflicted or not, there are in this show - along with some very devasating betryals!

There’s a complicated sibling relationship (between the main character and his foster brother) which honestly rivals the central romantic pairing for me… which I could write a whole other post about, but that’s not this post. There are, actually, quite a few interesting, intense, and variably fucked-up sibling relationships in this show!

There’s a couple of characters who are very good at manipulation, although who and how doesn’t become clear until the end of the show.

And then there’s the whole wonderfully fucked up tragedy which is the Yi city arc: a psycho mass murder is rescued by and lives domestically with a ~too good for this world~ Taoist monk, whom he both tricks into murdering people and also genuinely falls for. And screws up irrevocably.

And the shallowest stuff: scenery porn! costume porn! swooshy hair and swooshy robes and swords and arrows and magic talismans (some of which are written in one’s own blood) and flutes and stringed instruments (guqins) and cute bunnies and a ‘wonder’ dog that the lead is scared of even though it’s adorable!

There’s so very much that I love. These are the main things, I think.

~~~

There are some things I don’t like, too.

The pacing is just a mess. The first two episodes make no sense as they’re placed, they introduce a bunch of characters that you’ll never see again and some more you won’t see until two-thirds through the show, and they’re in complete medias res re: the plot. Everyone seems to say ‘just don’t worry,’ but if you don’t like watching things you don’t get (like me? is this such a rare preference?), I would say to actually start with episode three, and then in the middle of or after episode 33 (you’ll know when, it’ll be obvious), go back to episodes 1 and 2 to watch the start of the post-resurrection story. Even skipping past the first two episodes, the plot takes a while to get going: if you like the lighthearted school shenanigans, you won’t have much of those for long, and if you prefer Conflict and Drama like me, you’ve still got to wait a little while.

(Lan Wangji starts having expressions, eventually, and Wei Wuxian becomes (somewhat) less of a brat.)

It’s cheesy fantasy show with not-great production values, the fight scenes and so on look ridiculous. I love the costumes and the acting but… I’m not picky re: those sorts of things. The reaction shots go on way too long (until you’re obsessed with every character and are glad for them), and subsequent shots sometimes have a way of overlapping with each other so that when the angle changes it looks like you’ve rewound a split second.

Lots of stuff about how the magic works never makes any sense. Don’t worry, just go with it.

Lots and lots AND LOTS of people die. I think the gore level is pretty mild/moderate, compared to the body count? The show’s a sausage fest (about ~80% or more male, maybe closer to ~90% by screentime!) and although there are several interesting female characters, all but one minor one die by the story’s end. (Also, although there’s no rape on-screen of women or of significant characters - there is of one minor villainous male character, and explicitly one and very arguably two backstories of rape between characters’ parents.)

~~~

If you wanna take a look at the show before diving right in, here are a few of my favorite vids:

The Archer by lolachrome, a character study of the main character (Wei Wuxian)

Daylight by helcinda, about the main relationship (Wangxian)

Sharp-Dressed Men by alpheratz, for the ooh shiny factor

Devil from Heaven by gamachanlive, focused on all the suffering and conflict and all four of my personal favorite relationships

#the untamed #cql #wangxian #this is WAY TOO LONG #and will probably tell exactly zero (0) people whether this show/fandom is #~right for them~#but i had to write it so... lol #this is why! although i didn't know it till i'd watched it!#it is VERY FUCKING RIGHT for ME

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aegor-bamfsteel · 5 years ago

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Why do people say that Aegor raped Calla when she was a child? Daemon betrothing his oldest daughter to Aegor does not mean the marriage was consummated when she was a child. Sadly, Daemon himself was betrothed as a child. His grandmother Daenaera was married when she was 6 and his grandfather Viserys II was 12 when he wed and 13 when he had his first child, only a year younger than Daemon when he had his. Usually, it is custom to wait to consummate if the bride is a child.

Furthermore, the people who hate the Blackfyres try to frame it as Daemon selling his daughter to be raped, but I doubt that is why he betrothed her to Aegor since he already has Aegor’s unconditional support. Calla and Aegor never had children, per GRRM, so Aegor championed his nephews and nieces, essentially dedicating his life to his brother and his family. Daemon didn’t need to sell his daughter to Aegor for support, so that was not the reason for the betrothal. (2/3)

My point is that GRRM is wildly inconsistent with his child brides (and grooms). He uses Unwin Peake’s nameless daughter dying in childbirth at the age of 12 as a reason for why he is so despicable (and that is despicable). But then has Aemma Arryn consummate her marriage at age 13 and paints her father, grandparents, uncle, and husband as decent people. Daenaera is then married at age 6 but doesn’t consummate until age 15 or 16. It’s due to Aegon’s depression instead of custom. (3/3)

Thank you for the very thorough ask, tiger. I hope that I have successfully responded to all of your questions. Calla, as with all Blackfyres (and many non-Targaryen women), has certainly gotten a raw deal when it comes to page time/character depth; her only mention is in twoiaf: “Whatever the case may be (for Aegor’s anger at the Targaryens and Bl00draven), Aegor Rivers soon began to press Daemon Blackfyre to proclaim for the throne, and all the more so after Daemon agreed to wed his eldest daughter, Calla, to Aegor.” As Yandel doesn’t make any further comments, I assume the people who believe Calla was raped as a child exist in fandom rather than on page. Rape is a very sensitive subject, and I’m trying to keep the fanwank a bit quieter, so my response will be under the cut.

Why do people say Aegor raped Calla as a child? This actually involves several leaps in logic I don’t find convincing, so I’ll try to break it down:

We are first introduced to Aegor in the Dunk and Egg novellas via mention by some Blackfyre supporters, who are the natural antagonists of the Targaryens; the protagonist, Dunk, is best friends with the Targaryen prince Egg. Many of the Blackfyre supporters are minor antagonists to Dunk, especially in The Mystery Knight when they attempt to kill him (Alyn Cockshaw) or kidnap Egg (Tommard Heddle). Meanwhile, Bittersteel is a legendary hero to Blackfyre admirers (such as Osgrey), at least an important hoped-for ally to the Whitewalls conspirators (Gormon Peake needed some quick victories so Aegor would have faith in his and Daemon II’s rebellion), and a threat Bl00draven takes as seriously as the Blackfyre sons themselves. As an important member of a faction which has members that tried to harm the protagonist Dunk, people see Aegor as a villain.

The problem with seeing him as a villain (as opposed to simply an antagonist, which he undoubtedly is if you consider the Targaryens protagonists of the story) is that, due to lack of page-time and because he’s not that bad, he never actually does anything too villainous. Urging someone to rebel is at the end of the day just words. He took Bl00draven eye out in battle, but that appears to be an accident and doesn’t seem to have slowed him down. Leading the Golden Company to sack Qohor for failing to honor a contract is severe, but its only mention is in a non-canonical app that few people read. When his chief rival Bl00draven is a canonical child-murderer, child-crippler, kinslayer, deserter, head of a secret police organization, tyrannical overlord, etc...Aegor’s “evil deeds” don’t appear to add up to much. He might even seem more sympathetic than Bl00draven! But that cannot be, so fandom has to headcanon villainous behavior for him, because he must be a villain antagonist.

But what sort of villainous behavior should he do? In order to root for Bl00draven against him, it must be something terrible. GRRM often uses rape to signal how terrible a male character is (and how awful Westeros can be). The most evil villains in the main series are serial rapists: Gregor Clegane, Ramsay Bolton, Euron Greyjoy, Craster; even Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton, and Petyr Baelish have raped or enabled the rape of young women and girls. When the age of the victim is specified, she is often a preteen/young teenager to make her rape even more evil. The lone exception is Joffrey Baratheon, and that is only because he is 12 (he still molests Sansa repeatedly). Fandom rightly criticizes GRRM using sexualized violence against women as shorthand for “irredeemably evil” or window dressing for a dark fantasy. Yet when Aegor, a character who shows no sign of being a sexual predator (look at Shiera’s SSM, the Dunk and Egg books, and Yandel’s commentary on Aegor’s anger at Bl00draven: one-sided Aegor/Shiera has even less evidence of being real than Daemon/Daenerys), needs to commit villainous actions, some in fandom fall into the same trap as GRRM and imagine him raping women.

Then Yandel tells us that Daemon “agreed to wed his eldest daughter Calla” to Aegor shortly before the Rebellion. As Calla was not a triplet of his eldest sons Aegon and Aemon, the oldest she could possibly be was 11, still a child even by later GRRM standards. The phrase “agreed to wed” is at most a promise; it’s not an official betrothal, it’s certainly not an actual wedding, and it’s absolutely not a consummation. If it had been a consummation, that certainly would have been mentioned, as Yandel has repeatedly recorded rumors just for the purpose of making Daemon look bad (the 14 year old newly acknowledged landless natural son petitioned the king for a polygamous marriage with a princess and an Essosi noblewoman? sure...) Considering Daemon died at the end of the Rebellion and Aegor was now a landless, penniless rebel dependent on his goodsister Rohanne’s mercy, and how the Blackfyres needed to find more allies, I think any talks of marrying Calla was silenced. She married someone else, whereas he remained a bachelor for life and championed the cause of Haegon and his son Daemon III (not necessarily the others, as seen with Daemon II and Aenys, and he did not crown any of Daemon III’s brothers).

Whatever I headcanon, 2018 GRRM’s comment that he doesn’t think Aegor had any offspring pretty much puts the nail in the coffin of Aegor having consummated any wedded relationship, let alone with Calla. If a male character is promiscuous, GRRM raises the possibility of them having sired natural children; with Aerion Brightflame in Lys, and Brandon Stark in the North, and even Tywin Lannister, he says, “I suppose they could’ve sired bastards” (or in Tywin’s case, gives a non-answer). That he gave a straightforward NO regarding Aegor’s potential children indicates that he feels it would be out of character for Aegor to have a sexual relationship, whether in marriage or outside of it. I hope that when people headcanon Aegor as a serial rapist, they take GRRM’s comments and fandom criticism of sexual violence to heart.

My point is that GRRM is wildly inconsistent with the ages of his child brides (and grooms): I would disagree to the point that in his earlier works, underaged girls forced to wed old men was universally portrayed as terrible and a feature of a corrupt character. Hoster regretted his actions toward Lysa on his deathbed, but it led to their estrangement and her susceptibility to Littlefinger’s manipulation; Sansa Stark’s marriage to Tyrion showed the breakdown of societal norms under Lannister rule; Jeyne’s forced marriage and immediate consummation to Ramsay moves Theon to try to rescue her. Although the marriage wasn’t consummated, GRRM found it difficult to write the Tyrion/Sansa scene because of her horrific abuse. But then The World of Ice and Fire and Fire and Blood are published and older man/younger woman marriages and relationships are outright romanticized by the authors themselves (Elio Garcia said 37 year old Daemon Targaryen’s relationship with the 16 year old Nettles was a true romance; GRRM said that 56-year-old Alyn Velaryon was the great love of 21-year-old Elaena Targaryen’s life) Perhaps the lack of PoV in these works distanced the male writers from the female characters’ emotions and allowed them to envision Rhaenys (16)/Corlys (37), Corlys (61)/Marilda (17), Thaddeus (56)/Floris (14), and Aemma (11-13)/Viserys (16-18) as mutually romantic couples with sympathetic men; but then in the same works the authors use forced relationships with young girls to villainize other men Unwin Peake (daughter died in childbirth at age 12) and Aegon II (was receiving a blowjob from a 12 year old when his father died). The double standard seems to imply that a teenage girl can consent to a relationship with a man old enough to be her father/grandfather if she is genuinely in love with him, which is disturbingly close to real-life defenses of statutory rape. I hate the way that the supplemental material has suddenly decided to defend these couples with “the girls wanted it”, and I can only hope this doesn’t start appearing in the main series that people actually care about.

One type of underaged pairing seems to have a consistent portrayal: child grooms don’t seem to be granted the same mutually happy relationship as child brides. Both Viserys (12) and Larra’s (19) and Androw (17) and Rhaena’s (25) marriages ended in tragedy (and death, in the case of the latter). This makes me...unsettled when thinking about how the authors will write Daemon (14)/Rohanne (older). But to stay within the bounds of your question, I don’t think they will depict an Aegor/Calla marriage due to it making little political or characterization-based sense; so fortunately it will neither villainize nor romanticize Aegor. Although an antagonist to the Targaryens, he has consistently took the higher road over Bl00draven and has the potential to be a tragic and multifaceted character.

#ask #calla blackfyre #aegor rivers #daemon blackfyre #marriage #grrm criticism #fandom critical #asoiaf #anti bloodraven #asoiaf meta #male writers #female characters #sexism #tw: rape

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howwelldoyouknowyourmoon · 4 years ago

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The red dragon who deceived the world – Sun Myung Moon

▲ Sun Myung Moon wearing a dragon tie in 1973. The Chinese characters above are of his birth name, Moon Yong Myung. Yong = dragon. The central Chinese character, as well as the meaning, resembles a dragon with the head upper left and the tail lower right.

This is an extract from Chapter Six of The Tragedy of the Six Marys by Pak Chung-hwa. pages 253-256 LINK

The red dragon who deceived the world 253

The self-proclaimed Second Coming Messiah, Sun Myung Moon, learned his Principle from Kim Baek-moon. He then went to Pyongyang where was arrested for immoral activities; he spent time in jail; after his release he went to [Busan and then to] Seoul. In 1954, he founded the Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity. He ruined many people’s lives, but meanwhile the Unification Church gradually grew. Choi Bong-choon (whose Japanese name was Nishigawa Masaru) was smuggled to Japan to begin overseas missionary activities there [and after he was expelled he moved to the US where he was known as Sang Ik ‘Papasan’ Choi].

In addition, Kim Sang-cheol [David SC Kim] and Kim Young-oon preached in the United States. Members there also now believe in Sun Myung Moon as their praiseworthy ‘Father’ and that he is the Second Coming Messiah. Today, however, it seems that the voice of resentment rises up from the piles of dead bodies of the many women and men who were sacrificed because of the actions of Sun Myung Moon, which were nothing like the teachings of the Principle. And now, Sun Myung Moon is presenting to the public the front of the clean looking but naive Unification Church membership who do not know about the “secret [pikareum sex rituals] done for restoration” or other “secret practices”.

[The public see the mass weddings held by the church and hear about family values. The mass weddings bring in a lot of money for the Moon organization and the spectacle makes great PR. However, many second generation members have been married twice, or more, due to inappropriate matchings. There has been much sorrow.]

[Since Sun Myung Moon died in 2012 the theology for the sex rituals has been taught in Original Divine Principle workshops. Sean Hyung Jin Moon and his brother Justin Kook Jin Moon have broadcast videos explaining the truth that Sun Myung Moon had many pikareum sex rituals, and that they were necessary to cleanse the world from original sin through sex relays. Those whose wombs had been cleansed should have sex with others to purify them. LINK]

Sun Myung Moon was spending enormous amounts of money even while he was in prison for a crime. [American clergy and religious leaders were mobilized to fight on his behalf, claiming that it was a religious freedom issue and that he had been unfairly persecuted. Because of the support his cause gained] it was touted as a glorious and great miracle that he had entered an American prison. All the money he spent was precious money earned by many members of the Church at the risk of their lives.

Several years ago, a Japanese female member who was working in the United States was dropped off in a slum in a black area to sell Il-hwa Korean ginseng tea. She was gang raped and killed. The black people pulled her body out onto a road and drove a car over her body multiple times. They crushed her body to destroy any evidence. However, her Unification Church identity card was found in a pocket and it was discovered who she was.

[Another Japanese member, Atsushi Funaki was beaten with a baseball bat by two young black men. The money he had fundraised from selling roses was robbed. They beat him and left him for dead on the pavement. This was in 1992 in East Philadelphia where he had been dropped off alone in a very dangerous area. He died one week after the attack. See note below.]

Sun Myung Moon is the self-proclaimed the Second Coming Messiah, however, he wastes the money that is brought in through such miserable sacrifices like the above examples. In Japan, all Church members are mobilized to earn money even while being harassed by drunks through the spiritual sales method or by selling chocolate and gum, and all the money is sent to Sun Myung Moon.

In the name of spending the money sent in up to now, Moon is making up an outrageous plan. That is the “International Highway Construction Project”. It is intended to build an international highway connecting Japan, Korea, China, Russia, and Europe through an undersea tunnel under the Korea Straits. Even within the Unification Church, there was the sound of cynical laughter and many said that it was “impracticable”.

If Sun Myung Moon is the Second Coming Messiah, what the hell is he doing, building an international highway! Before planning anything like the construction of an international highway, he would be a True Parent by doing pikareum sex rituals – and isn’t it the original purpose of the Second Coming Messiah to make a world free of the original sin and to restore the Garden of Eden, above all else?

Sun Myung Moon declared himself a “pastor” in American newspapers and other media outlets. Sun Myung Moon never attended any seminary, nor was he ordained as a pastor. If he has a qualification obtained from a seminary affiliated with the Unification Church, I have questions about that.

From the beginning, Sun Myung Moon said that he is the Second Coming Messiah and the third Adam. And he has repeatedly said that his mission is to create a unified, sinless world by changing the blood lineage through pikareum sex (血代交換) which means “blood exchange”. Then, how can the Second Coming Messiah transform into a pastor and fulfill his mission? Isn’t the logic of that something which even his tricks so far cannot hope to match!

It also explains why Sun Myung Moon changed his name when he came down from North Korea to South Korea. In the Bible, Revelation 12:91, it is written that a red dragon will appear in this world at the end times and deceive the world. Moon Yong-myung (文龍明), whose name contained the word dragon (yong = dragon), quickly changed his name to Sun Myung Moon, for of that reason. His birth name substantiates that he is indeed the red dragon, who is Satan.

There are no lies in this confession of mine, in which I have expressed my own shame to the whole world. I want to say that Sun Myung Moon is the true Satan.

In order to prevent many people from around the world from being deceived or victimized by this red dragon, Sun Myung Moon, I decided to publish this manuscript at the risk of my life.

I pray with all my heart for the real judgment of God on Sun Myung Moon.

[Written from August 31, 1985 to September 30, 1993.]

Pak Chung-hwa

____________________________________

Note: Atsushi Funaki: The police did not understand how the Unification Church could send a person with money to such a dangerous place on their own. The police said that they themselves only went to that area in pairs. They also wondered how a person with poor English could explain themselves to any attacker.

Atsushi was married. He was attacked on May 10, 1992. He died one week later on May 17th.

LINK to the Japanese magazine article: 統一教会に入信して殺されたわが兄

▲ Atsushi Funaki, top right, dying in hospital as his mother and his brother watch over him. Top left, his brother stands at the place where his brother was beaten unconscious. The center two photos are of his funeral and his grave stone. At the funeral ceremony there were shouts of ‘Mansei’ which means ‘victory’. The mother and brother were very upset about the funeral service.

____________________________________

Chapter Six of The Tragedy of the Six Marys, pages 245-247:

The Infidelities and Crimes of Sun Myung Moon

Chapter Six of The Tragedy of the Six Marys, pages 247-253:

The misery of Kim Myung-hee / Another Mother / My shame for participating in orgies

The Tragedy of the Six Marys website

____________________________________

The Tragedy of the Six Marys video transcript – with additional material.

Interviews with the early Unification Church members who were involved in the 1993 publication of the book: “The Tragedy of the Six Marys – the real Satan is Sun Myung Moon!!” The main author was Pak Chung-hwa, but at least three others contributed sections.

____________________________________

https://六マリアの悲劇.com

野錄統一敎會史 (세계기독교 통일신령협회사) – 1 . 박 정 화 외2인 지음 (前 통일교창립위원)

문선명의 정체! (1) 김명희

#The Tragedy of the Six Marys #Pak Chung-hwa #Sun Myung Moon #Hak Ja Han #Unification Church

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reachexceedinggrasp · 4 years ago

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Okay, so for my clannibal people, I have two recs where something very like The Dynamic has recently appeared in media. The first one has far more caveats than the second, but the first one is also the one where the ship is canon and has kissing.

The Method a Russian series from 2015 (it’s on Netflix). It’s about a young ingenue who decides to become a cop because of lingering trauma around an unsolved violent parental death (check), she’s accepted as the protege of an eccentric genius (check) through somewhat shady circumstances with some kind of ulterior motive (check). He, the eccentric genius, is not a serial killer- he’s a detective, but he is an absolute human disaster whose erratic behaviour and extremely questionable morals are tolerated by the police because they can use him as a weapon. He has totally killed people.

‘Byronic Hero’ is a vast understatement.

This show is grim, graphic, and very dark; it takes an extremely dim view of humanity in general and it doesn’t provide the hope or catharsis that Clannibal does- the protagonist does not get to have it all, so be forewarned on that. The implicit worldview and assumed ethical framework of the series is honestly appalling and the main characters are all fairly reprehensible by the end, so if you’re not prepared to deal with a whole lotta ugliness I would say don’t watch it.

The selling point to me is that the characters are interesting and the ship is very compelling. Again, it’s canon, so you will get satisfaction, but the actual romance is somewhat subtextual most of the time. Their connection is the lynchpin of the series, but it’s more about the protagonist’s ‘education’ into his world and an exploration of what that world is than it is focussed on them falling in love. He has no illusions or intentions about having a future (with her or otherwise), he’s trying to pass on his ‘method’ to a worthy successor, so his attitude is heavily informed by that. She is being broken of what idealism she ever had (told you it was grim).

Anyway, their relationship is very fucked up and the series has a legit horrifying (also aggressively stupid) conception of what mental illness is like, but it was very engaging and it was totally unapologetic about the romanticism of the dark love story, so there is a lot there for you if you want to see something like a Clannibal dynamic again. Just don’t expect the positive turn or healing. The ending is not happy or hopeful in any sense. You could make a good argument it’s a full-on tragedy, though I don’t think that’s quite the intent. And the tragedy is Titus Andronicus. If that gives you an indication of how grim we’re talking.

The plot does completely fall apart by the end (it’s like if OUaT were an r-rated crime show, it becomes that much of a mess), but the acting is good and it remains very compelling because of the characters.

Tell Me What You Saw a kdrama from this year. THIS is what I’m talking about. A young ingenue decides to become a cop because of lingering trauma around an unsolved violent parental death (check), she’s accepted as the protege of an eccentric genius (check), through somewhat shady circumstances with some kind of ulterior motive (check). She has to go visit him alone in a giant, creepy old building where he is confined (ooo, new check). He, the eccentric genius, is on the side of the angels and is again not a serial killer lol. He is a legendary criminal profiler and ex-detective who spends most of the series as a somewhat morally ambiguous anti-hero. He’s brilliant, he’s troubled, he broods and plays mind games from on high, and he’s always 17 steps ahead of you. I love him. Also, crucially, he is hot:

The first six episodes have great build-up to a not-totally-unpredictable but still fairly epic twist and then, sadly, the following episode is a bit of an anti-climax from what felt like it should be the jumping off point where the series kicked into high gear but turned out to be a bunch of wandering around aimlessly in very loosely connected episodic plots. There’s narrative justification for this, but I did feel like someone slammed on the breaks and switched gears. It takes a while to regain momentum and is never quite as focussed or well-balanced again.

The pros of the series are its very strong characters played by mostly very strong actors, quality atmosphere, great action, good suspense, and loads and loads of interesting relationships brimming with potential. The one that interests me most being, of course, the one between the protagonist and the profiler. It’s pretty much exactly the clannibal dynamic- he picks her apart and challenges her for his own reasons and then comes to enormously respect her; she is at first intimidated and angry but gives as good as she gets until she reaches a point of growth where she can challenge him in return. And, in the end, he has helped her self-actualise and become who she wanted to be and she helps him heal from his past to the point she can radically alter his outlook on life.

Their relationship is ultimately very positive for both and remains central to the series throughout. There are complicated feelings at play that are given some time in the spotlight, but it is sadly underdeveloped from what it should have been imo. Especially on his side. And there is no romance or explicit attraction, though I think the show supports her at least having a crush on him. If it had ‘gone there’ it would not have shocked anyone, let’s put it that way. They could have gone there. It is one of those flawed canons with good characters super ripe for fic. (Please watch this show and write fic so I can read it, is what I’m saying.)

The cons are that the story ends up being ridiculous on multiple levels and there are some intensely irritating moments of characters being profoundly idiotic and unreasonable just to keep the plot going. Incoherent motivation, mainly for the heroes, is a BIG problem. Apparently rampant police incompetence (including from all the main characters) is the second biggest problem. There is a fantastic female character who is the team leader for our main cops and she gets hit with both of these possibly the worst of anyone. The big reveal about her also makes no fucking sense. There was a maybe cliché but perfectly serviceable route they could have gone instead without changing anything, it seemed like they were setting it up, but they just go with... nothing. And in retrospect this undermines her entire character for the whole series. Which hurts because she was genuinely awesome.

So yeah. There are logic problems and all three ongoing major questions in the overarching story basically have terrible ‘solutions’, but it is extremely well-made in every other respect and the characters remained compelling enough that I couldn’t stop watching. The single-episode mysteries are usually very good with good pacing and satisfying resolutions. It’s consistently entertaining despite the frustration and it manages to pull out a fucking GREAT A+++++ ending right when you’re about to get super pissed off about more deterministic grim teenage nihilism ruining everything. The protagonist got to learn from all her experiences without losing her optimism, rise above adversity and be rewarded for her faith, and it was honestly so nice to get that. So unexpectedly hopeful and uplifting. I love a story that gets dark but never despairs.

If they make a second series with the same cast, I will be there with bells on.

#clannibal #media recs #tell me what you saw #the profiler is very OP in the best way I love this character type and I'm not ashamed #give me a super OP mess and I'm so happy #(as long as the narrative realises that they are a mess)#( if it doesn't then it's just ugggggh and probably heading for PCM at best and studom at worst)#anyway this is the same actor as played the insane love interest in Fated to Love You #Korean Johnny Depp #jang hyuk #he's pretty great #he's also an ex-boxer and real life martial artist whose entire body is rock hard so he's got that going for him as well #this show is very nearly Peak Aesthetic for him (all black clothes sunglasses shoulder length hair unnnf)#he needs the long hair #short hair does not suit him #(I realise I'm biased but it really doesn't)#this opinion has been reinforced mightily by this show and the show I watched him in where it was even shorter than in the shit half of FtL #(which is Wok of Love which I do not recommend at all it's terrible)#although that show also had bad lighting/direction which I'm sure didn't help #I mean it's Peak Aesthetic until they inexplicably decide to dress him exclusively in giant fluffy coats he never takes off (yes i'm salty)#why does this character have five different giant black coats what's that about #back to TMWYS now btw #my tag rambles are getting more confusing #he had a smart peacoat in the beginning and then it's all huge parkas #I understand it's apparently always freezing in studios and it was winter but cold is temporary looking cool is forever lmao #kdrama

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emeraldspiral · 5 years ago

Text

Kim Possible hot takes coming through.

So, I should preface this by saying I never hated the show, I found it perfectly watchable and I don’t think Kim is unlikable or morally questionable or enough of a creator’s pet to qualify as a Mary-Sue. But I remember even as a kid, from the very first advertisements for the show, the way she was framed always rubbed me the wrong way. Like, they wanted Kim to be a Strong Female Role Model For Girls before they wanted her to be have any kind of authentic humanity. That’s not to say she didn’t have any personality or flaws. It’s just that, like with Rey in TROS, they kinda gave her a toxic mindset but played it like it was a good thing.

Like, with other types of role model characters like Superman, you never get the impression that the writers are saying that it’s reasonable to expect the average person to bench press skyscrapers and stop alien overlords from taking over the earth on your lunch break. The idea behind Superman as a role model is that he uses the power he has to help people instead of using it for selfish personal gain or to bully people and doesn’t compromise on his moral principles even when it’s hard.

With Kim, it often felt like they were trying to sell you on the idea that any girl could be like her, in the sense of having the ability to not only do anything but everything. Unlike almost every other superhero, Kim’s personal life never really suffers from her crime fighting activities. She’s a straight-A student, captain of the cheer squad, has only ever gotten detention once for being tardy a total of like, 3 times, and I don’t recall her ever angsting about the people close to her being targeted by supervillains.

One of the earliest episodes that always stood out to me started with Kim being called out by her squad for being late all the time. Her rival Bonnie makes the perfectly reasonable argument that if her crime fighting keeps her too busy to honor her commitment to the team then she should step down as cheer captain and let someone else with more free time takeover. But Bonnie is painted as being a conniving glory hound for daring to make this suggestion. Kim then spends the whole episode trying to prove she can balance both tasks. In any other show she might’ve really struggled with that and ultimately realized she was taking on too much responsibility. But instead, she does a perfectly fine job and she’s only threatened by Bonnie upstaging her with grand displays. In the end, she abdicates her position. Not because she’s realized that Bonnie was actually right, but because she expects that Bonnie will get burnt out and decide she doesn’t want the job anymore after two weeks. And indeed, after that episode Kim is back to being cheer captain and the issue never comes up again. So, the burden of being cheer captain is supposed to be too much for Bonnie, but not for Kim, who has way more on her plate. In what way are we meant to read that as anything but the narrative calling Bonnie lazy and venerating Kim for being hyper-competitive and achievement driven?

A couple episodes have Kim getting upset about not being instantly perfect at something, like cooking for driving, but even those episodes end with Kim getting the hang of it. I didn’t watch every episode, especially the later season ones, but I don’t remember Kim ever having to just accept that she straight up sucks at something or more than that, having her perfectionism really called out as a character flaw. There’s even an episode where Kim, who’s already a straight-A student, gets partnered up with a genius for a class project who doesn’t want Kim to contribute. Kim then feels the need to prove herself to this girl by studying whatever field of science she was an expert in until she had enough of an understanding to keep up with her. So it’s not enough for her to thrive and excel as much as she already does. She has to devote whatever time and energy has leftover after regular coursework, cheer leading, and saving the goddamned world to studying something, not because it interests her, but because she needs to earn the respect of a genius?

A thoughtful, realistic depiction of Kim would’ve called this behavior out as a pathological disorder. Things she does because she’s desperate for control or afraid of not being liked, or incapable of seeing value in herself outside of her achievements or usefulness to others, like Korra or Steven Universe. But Kim’s always portrayed as perfectly well-adjusted.

Batman, Spider-Man, Iron-Man, and even Superman are all regularly called out on how much responsibility they take on and the toll it takes on their physical and mental health and their relationships. What makes their actions truly heroic is how much they sacrifice to perform them. And its not depicted as aspirational when they let the guilt that drives them to make those sacrifices lead them to give up so much that they never get to be happy. Bruce Wayne ends up old and alone in Batman Beyond because he could never move on from his parents’ death and retire until a moment came that made him too ashamed to continue, and it’s a tragedy. But in The Dark Knight Rises, he DOES move on and the narrative celebrates him for releasing himself of his burden.

But with Kim Possible, they want to have their cake and eat it too. Give her all the perks of being awesome at everything without showing any of the drawbacks, the hardship, the sacrifice, or anything even remotely implying that her lifestyle isn’t 100% healthy, desirable, and achievable. Which is not a great message to send to young people, given how many struggle with the idea that they’re not achieving enough, even when they’re doing perfectly fine or have legitimate struggles that prevent them from “keeping up” with their peers.

And it’s this kind of writing that was considered acceptable in Kim Possible that ended up ruing Rey’s character in TROS. Vindicating her for wasting her life waiting for her parents. Attributing her darkness to Palpatine instead of the trauma and resentment of her abandonment. Refusing to call her out on her impulsive temper. Walking back on challenging her idolization of Luke. Paying lip-service to the idea of her realizing she’s not alone and has people in her life that she can rely on, only to cast her dyad partner aside and force her to fight the final battle alone. Ending her story with her as a solitary Strong Independent Woman after she spent her entire life desperately craving a family. Refusing to depict her grief over the loss of her literal soulmate. All in the name of promoting GURL POWER. This idea that girls can and should do anything and everything by themselves, without help, and it should be easy. Cost them nothing. Take no effort. Have no ugly consequences or side effects.

#reylo #rey #kylo ren #ben solo #star wars #rise of skywalker #tros #star wars tros #the rise of skywalker #star wars the rise of skywalker #kim possible

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langandlitanxiety · 5 years ago

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Zofia Ossowska & Pola Żuk

The theme of sexuality in William Shakespeare’s “Othello”

Introduction

Over the course of Shakespeare’s artwork progress and evolution, his readers can observe his significantly increasing interest in the psychology of sex. Othello is his most widely exploring this topic piece, as the author investigates many varieties of sexuality concerning not only people of the same race and class, but also the ones having different ethnic origins and social statuses. General controversy spread around a black man being the eponymous character inspired Shakespeare to also present stereotypes of interracial sex that affect both family’s of the white, pure girl and the couple itself. Such stereotypes are mostly introduced by the main villain, Iago, who is most frequently using animal imagery to describe them as well as Othello’s and Desdemona’s intimate moments. His language only adds spiciness to the scenes concerning the characters he is speaking about and tension in the reader, as such imagery really evokes one’s imagination and in this case, often disgust.

Imagery used to refer to Othello and his intimate life with Desdemona (and the reaction of Desdemona’s father)

The first scene in which Iago comments on Othello’s and Desdemona’s sex life is when he wants to cause chaos and conflict between Brabantio, Desdemona’s father, and the couple. In order to do that, he puts an image of the dirty, old man shamingly interacting with his pure, young daughter and highlights the possibility of Desdemona getting pregnant with the child of the devil (such metaphor derives from Othello’s dark skin color).

“Zounds, sir, you’re robbed, for shame put on your gown!

Your heart is burst, you have lost half your soul,

Even now, now, very now, an old black ram

Is tupping your white ewe! Arise, arise,

Awake the snorting citizens with the bell

Or else the devil will make a grandsire of you, Arise I say!” (1.1.84-91)

Iago suggests that the fact of Desdemona’s sexual interaction with the Moor is shameful not only towards her herself, but specifically towards his father, who must have not raised her in the right way. He also pays attention to the difference of age between the two - Desdemona seems to be much younger than her lover, which is also not something to be proud of. As Desdemona represents a woman from the upper class, she should also choose someone at least equal to her rank for her husband not to disrespect hers and her family’s position. During the fight between Iago, Roderigo and Brabantio (though Iago speaks to Brabantio as Roderigo), the father of Desdemona accuses the men of being thieves. While responding to this accusation, Iago still tries (and succeeds) to play with Brabantio’s imagination by saying

“ [...] Because we come to

do you service, and you think we are ruffians, you’ll

have your daughter covered with a Barbary horse;

you’ll have your nephews neigh to you, you’ll have

courses for cousins and jennets for germans!” (1.1.109-112)

and

“I am one, sir, that comes to tell you your daughter and the Moor are now making the beast with two backs.” (1.1.114-115)

Saying all that, Iago successfully upsets Brabantio by bringing his attention to the marriage of his beloveddaughter with the Moor in a very unpleasant way.

Desdemona’s and Othello’s sex life; the symbol of their bridal bed

Another thing concerning the topic of sex that is worth noticing is the amount of trails Othello and Desdemona had to get intimate. Firstly, they had to call off their wedding-night in Venice as Othello was ordered to go to Cyprus:

“ Senator

You must away tonight.

Desdemona

Tonight, my lord?

Duke

This night.

Othello

With all my heart.” (1.3.275-279)

Secondly, due to the brawl between Cassio and Roderigo resulting from Iago’s manipulation, they were interrupted again, only in Cyprus. Othello was mad not only because of the fact of their fight, but also because his alone time with his lover was interrupted.

“Look if my gentle love be not raised up! I’ll make thee an example.” (2.3.246-247)

Such interruptions build the tension between Othello and Desdemona and only add to Othello’s madness developing after he believes that his wife is indeed cheating on him, as he cannot seem to get ahold of her, while he thinks that Cassio does.

Another thing worth mentioning is the bed, which Iago brings a couple of times during the play. It not only reminds the reader or viewer about the off-stage bridal bed, but is also a some kind of a connection between the final scene, during which Desdemona is killed by her beloved husband.

“Well: happiness to their sheets” (2.3.26)

This quotation is especially ironic, as right before her death Desdemona asked Emilia to change the sheets into their wedding ones as a sign of preparing for the big night with her love. This means that these mentioned by Iago bridal bed and sheets may signalize to the reader further course of the plot and highlight the huge juxtaposition: the bed and the sheets that were supposed to bring the couple happiness evolved into a symbol of their tragedy. In fact, the bridal bed is the place on which almost every dead body in this play lands in the end, what portrays the extreme changes that took place in a very short notice.

“I do not know, friends all, but now, even now,

In quarter and in terms like bride and groom

Divesting them for bed [...]” (2.3.175-177)

Is Iago gay?

There have been many discussions about Iago’s sexuality - some say that Iago is in fact homosexual and he wants to destroy Othello and his relationship with Desdemona out of jealousy caused by his unfulfilled love. However, such interpretation of Iago’s character is often made because people feel the need to justify such horrible actions as those presented by Iago. The truth is that this villain is an embodiment of evil, a character taking pleasure from causing chaos, trouble, and pain, as he not once shows any sign of regret, empathy, repentance or change. Humans always seem to seek for motive and need one - in case of Iago, he does not need motive, or more specifically, he’s only motive is to cause harm and enjoy its consequences. Therefore, the theory of Iago’s homosexuality is an overinterpretation that should not be taken under consideration while analyzing Shakespeare’s play.

The theme of womanhood in context of sexuality

The three women characters that are included in the play are supposed to represent women of different class and social status.

Desdemona is representing the highest social status and poses as a female role model, being referred to as a virtuous and loyal wife by several characters during the first few scenes of the play. She’s obedient and kind; even though Brabantio directly expresses his disappointment regarding Desdemona’s choice of husband, she remains respectful and thoughtful enough to not try to bother his father:

“Nor I; I would not there reside,

To put my father in impatient thoughts

By being in his eye.

Most gracious Duke,

To my unfolding lend your prosperous ear

And let me find a charter in your voice,

T' assist my simpleness.” (2.3.239-244)

Desdemona throws away her life in order to be with Othello and until the very end of her life, she remains obedient and in love.

Bianca is Desdemona’s polar opposite. She is Cassio’s lover and a mistress, thus being strongly linked with the theme of sexuality that appears throughout the play.

Despite her profession, Bianca seems to be very emotional about Cassio’s affection, frustrated at the way he disregards their relationship. Her jealousy of Cassio mirrors Othello’s jealousy of Desdemona. The character of a courtesan seems to serve as a way to emphasize Desdemona’s desirable traits of faithfulness and loyalty, and yet Othello is still incapable of telling the difference between the two types of women that Desdemona and Bianca represent.

A lot about how Bianca is presented and perceived by the male characters of the play can be seen in the way she is addressed or described by Cassio:

“Go to, woman!

Throw your vile guesses in the devil's teeth,

From whence you have them.

You are jealous now

That this is from some mistress, some remembrance:

No, in good troth, Bianca.” (3.4.179-183)

“I marry her! what? a customer! Prithee, bear some charity to my wit: do not think it so unwholesome. Ha, ha, ha!” (4.1.120-123)

Iago addresses Cassio’s problematic approach towards his lover as well:

“Now will I question Cassio of Bianca,

A housewife that by selling her desires

Buys herself bread and clothes: it is a creature

That dotes on Cassio; as 'tis the strumpet's plague

To beguile many and be beguiled by one:

He, when he hears of her, cannot refrain

From the excess of laughter.”

What is also very interesting is that not only does Cassio speak of Bianca in a pitiful and disrespectful manner, but he also seems deeply fascinated by Desdemona’s presence.

“Iago

Not this hour, lieutenant; 'tis not yet ten o' the clock. Our general cast us thus early for the love of his Desdemona; who let us not therefore blame: he hath not yet made wanton the night with her; and she is sport for Jove.

Cassio

She's a most exquisite lady.

Iago

And, I'll warrant her, fun of game.

Cassio

Indeed, she's a most fresh and delicate creature.” (2.3.13-20)

“An inviting eye; and yet methinks right modest.” (2.3.23)

Referring to Desdemona in such a way and constantly emphasizing how perfect and exquisite she is, Cassio creates even a more vivid contrast between her and Bianca. It is worth noticing that while it is most often the women who are accused of disloyalty, it is the male characters, including Cassio, who continuously make suggestive remarks towards or about the three women.

The third female character is Emilia, who seems to connect numerous traits of both Desdemona and Bianca. She’s a working-class woman and Iago’s husband. She’s obedient and loyal towards her loved one, but at the same time stresses that any woman would cheat on her husband given the right circumstances.

it is strongly suggested that all of these three women are fulfilling different kinds of men’s fantasies. Iago seems to be the only one to see that since the very beginning, as he is the one to tell Othello how hard it is to distinguish between a truly virtuous woman and one who plays the role she is expected to in a convincing way. The reliance of the representation womanhood on male characters’ vices and virtues directly relates to the important theme of gender that Shakespeare’s Othello touches upon.

Conclusion

The theme of sexuality and deriving from that topic of womanhood is strongly paid attention to in Shakespeare’s Othello. It is brought up in many situations in both literal and metaphorical ways. It is important that the author touches upon such a topic, as it is a big part of one's psyche and relationships, especially romantic ones. As the whole plot revolves around Desdemona’s alleged sexual betrayal of Othello, it is specifically crucial to focus more on the psychology of sex, which Shakespeare did very well.

#portfoliotask #othello

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nightibowl · 5 years ago

Text

The theme of sexuality in William Shakespeare’s “Othello”

Introduction

Imagery used to refer to Othello and his intimate life with Desdemona (and the reaction of Desdemona’s father)

“Zounds, sir, you’re robbed, for shame put on your gown!

Your heart is burst, you have lost half your soul,

Even now, now, very now, an old black ram

Is tupping your white ewe! Arise, arise,

Awake the snorting citizens with the bell

Or else the devil will make a grandsire of you,

Arise I say!” (1.1.84-91)

“ [...] Because we come to

do you service, and you think we are ruffians, you’ll

have your daughter covered with a Barbary horse;

you’ll have your nephews neigh to you, you’ll have

courses for cousins and jennets for germans!” (1.1.109-112)

and

“I am one, sir, that comes to tell you your daughter and the Moor are now making the beast with two backs.” (1.1.114-115)

Saying all that, Iago successfully upsets Brabantio by bringing his attention to the marriage of his beloved daughter with the Moor in a very unpleasant way.

Desdemona’s and Othello’s sex life; the symbol of their bridal bed

“ 1 Senator You must away tonight.

Desdemona Tonight, my lord?

Duke This night.

Othello With all my heart.” (1.3.275-279)

“Look if my gentle love be not raised up!

I’ll make thee an example.” (2.3.246-247)

“Well: happiness to their sheets” (2.3.26)

“I do not know, friends all, but now, even now,

In quarter and in terms like bride and groom

Divesting them for bed [...]” (2.3.175-177)

Is Iago gay?

There have been many discussions about Iago’s sexuality - some say that Iago is in fact homosexual and he wants to destroy Othello and his relationship with Desdemona out of jealousy caused by his unfulfilled love. However, such interpretation of Iago’s character is often made because people feel the need to justify such horrible actions as those presented by Iago. The truth is that this villain is an embodiment of evil, a character taking pleasure from causing chaos, trouble, and pain, as he not once shows any sign of regret, empathy, repentance or change. Humans always seem to seek for motive and need one - in case of Iago, he does not need motive, or more specifically, he’s only motive is to cause harm and enjoy its consequences. Therefore, the theory of Iago’s homosexuality is an over-interpretation that should not be taken under consideration while analyzing Shakespeare’s play.

The theme of womanhood in context of sexuality

The three women characters that are included in the play are supposed to represent women of different class and social status.

“Nor I; I would not there reside,

To put my father in impatient thoughts

By being in his eye. Most gracious Duke,

To my unfolding lend your prosperous ear

And let me find a charter in your voice,

T' assist my simpleness.” (2.3.239-244)

Desdemona throws away her life in order to be with Othello and until the very end of her life, she remains obedient and in love.

Bianca is Desdemona’s polar opposite. She is Cassio’s lover and a mistress, thus being strongly linked with the theme of sexuality that appears throughout the play.

A lot about how Bianca is presented and perceived by the male characters of the play can be seen in the way she is addressed or described by Cassio:

“Go to, woman!

Throw your vile guesses in the devil's teeth,

From whence you have them. You are jealous now

That this is from some mistress, some remembrance:

No, in good troth, Bianca.” (3.4.179-183)

“I marry her! what? a customer! Prithee, bear some

charity to my wit: do not think it so unwholesome.

Ha, ha, ha!” (4.1.120-123)

Iago addresses Cassio’s problematic approach towards his lover as well:

“Now will I question Cassio of Bianca,

A housewife that by selling her desires

Buys herself bread and clothes: it is a creature

That dotes on Cassio; as 'tis the strumpet's plague

To beguile many and be beguiled by one:

He, when he hears of her, cannot refrain

From the excess of laughter.”

What is also very interesting is that not only does Cassio speak of Bianca in a pitiful and disrespectful manner, but he also seems deeply fascinated by Desdemona’s presence.

“Iago Not this hour, lieutenant; 'tis not yet ten o' the

clock. Our general cast us thus early for the love

of his Desdemona; who let us not therefore blame:

he hath not yet made wanton the night with her; and

she is sport for Jove.

Cassio She's a most exquisite lady.

Iago And, I'll warrant her, fun of game.

Cassio Indeed, she's a most fresh and delicate creature.” (2.3.13-20)

“An inviting eye; and yet methinks right modest.” (2.3.23)

It is interesting that all three of the female characters are accused of infidelity at some point of the play. The entire theme of womanhood is essentially defined by and built upon the virtues and sexuality of the male characters. Each of the female characters represents a woman of different class and status, however, it is strongly suggested that all of these three women are fulfilling different kinds of men’s fantasies. Iago seems to be the only one to see that since the very beginning, as he is the one to tell Othello how hard it is to distinguish between a truly virtuous woman and one who plays the role she is expected to in a convincing way. The reliance of the representation womanhood on male characters’ vices and virtues directly relates to the important theme of gender that Shakespeare’s Othello touches upon.

Conclusion

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roxannepolice · 6 years ago

Note

Long asks anon again, here to offer my opinion on the current wank. Rey as a character is rather blatantly breaking sw story rules and nothing is going to get SFF fans hackles up like rule breakage. This is root of both the MarySue accusations and current wank. Rey has a tragic backstory thats doubling as the only failure she can call her own. But its a) damn near entirely offscreen and b) serves as convenient justification for why shes competent at near everything that comes up.

Reys instantly good at the force because of a convenient force download that to the best of my knowledge only occured in the noncanon KOTOR II and quite frankly cant blame most of the general audience for not getting because without prior knowledge or the novelizations why would they? She has darkness in her but as so far used and touched it consequence free and its almost entirely symbolically externalized on the Kylo (and in SW symbolism is Real in a way it isnt in other narratives) Shes strong in the force because Light rises to meet Dark but to quote the current crop of movies ‘thats not how the force works) or at least thats never how it worked before. Shes the first SW protagonist to go behind enemy lines and come out with both hands in the second movie. For ppl wondering how come Luke and Ani never get labeled MarySues, this is why, they got thier asses handed to them, Rey hasnt. There /is/ something /off/ in Reys story, and ppl pick up on it. if you can make a post (w/ over 1k notes!) about how great it is that a character meant to prop up 7hrs worth of movies has little to no character development to go through, somethings off. If multiple ppl can make posts about how its neat Rey can tap into the darkside (still characterized as evil in ST) consequence free (with some quite frankly stupid justifications, 'shes disciplined’ really? jedi lacked a lot of things thats not one of them) somethings off and again, if the only failure your main heroine has is /entirely retroactive something’s off/. If the story were getting with the is the story most ppl think we are, a 'female empowerment’ (i dont feel particularly empowered by being told I have an equal chance at being a deus ex machina but ok) than well, her story is over and theres no need for IX (hell it could have been over in TFA, most ppl assumed she had accepted her place as the future jedi in that one) and no need for reylo The ST was always gonna deconstruct all that came before it purely by virtue of being a sequel. The tragedy of anakin skywalker is now a farce, the happy ot ending now a tragedy, and the mythopoetic structure shot to shit in the name of serialization and perpetual warfare. this stand true for all the sequel characters including rey and ben. the only question is are we going to get anything out of it? I compare it to home renovation. You can knock out a wall and the walls gone, but new opportunities arise. With Benlo, I’m reasonably confident that there will be at least some attempt to take advantage of the new space. With rey and the resistance kids? not so much. it just feels like they knocked down a blue wall to rebuild it as pink one and at the point it just feels like a waste of time because ive seen this before. Ive seen pure cinnamon roll desert orphan reform jedi order If this was all youre going to do that the fuck was the point? which circles around to my problem with team good guy this go around and That Scene. JJ twisted the story into a pretzel to justify the winners of the last round being the underdogs again and then rian twisted so much further the storys head may as well be up its own ass. And then at the very end he shoots it all to shit and rushes to reassure us its all gonna be okay. He removes the entire point of the underdog trope /the tension that comes from the fact that they might lose/. I mean there wasnt a whole lot of that to begin with already but really? So theres no tension that Reys gonna win so her journey feels frictionless, and theres no question where shes gonna end up so full offense why give a shit? Thats where the whole 'can rey lose a fight?’ thing comes from. Ppl want conflict in her arc to justify its existence and give us a reason why this her story to begin with. if the only character going through growth for all three movies is ben, if the only characters whos fate is up in the air is ben, and if all the tension in the reylo relationship comes from ben, then why is this /reys story/? why not just make it about the character actually driving all the drama and thus, the story? As a final thought, im going to add that having Kylo be aware and insecure that hes never gonna be as Iconic as Vader was a great story choice, regardless of where ends up. Current Rebels, on the other hand, seems to have not gotten the memo that they are never gonna be as iconic as Original Rebels, and the story itself seems to being trying to sell them to me as being better. Rey is Luke but better, Poe/Finn are Han wo the smuggler grit, and id be lying if i said it didnt piss me off.

Long asks anon to kick down ur door again, AND ANOTHER THING. SW is a lotta things. Subtle aint one of them, and St hasnt changed in that regard. If you have to debate it chances are either a) ur arguing counter to the text in which case mor power to you but not really helpful for predictions or intended meaning or b) /it aint there. A bunch of ppl didnt like anidala, but nobody doubted we were supposed to think they were in love by the end of AOTC, bunch of ppl didnt like poes arc, but no one doubts he fucked up by not listening to holdo was the intended take away. Which brings to rey and flaws or lack there of. Were told rey has flaws but she has yet to suffer any real consequences from them with the exception of The Damn Parentage Wank, which again, pulls the double duty of making her hyper competent at everything. Because rey has no consequences for her flaws, from a story function pov there aren’t any. If rey did have a flaw to overcome, we would all agree what it was

Now won’t you all just look at this beautiful, spot on rant which has been lagging in my askbox since the last time Rey’s flaws or lack thereof were the discourse’s focus (November, I believe?) and suddenly became a thing again, courtesy of Tweetgate. I think you really summed up the crux of this debate wonderfully, anon.

I particularly agree with the part about Rey not getting narratively punished for whatever flaws we’d like her to have (great point about returning from behind the enemy lines with both arms still in place), when SW don’t stay away from allowing characters to get “punished” even for otherwise applaudable features - vide Padmé, whose idealism is what Palps manipulates into gaining more power (this is why Padmé will never come off as a Mary Sue or too perfect, btw). But I’ll say even more - Rey doesn’t even get called out on her flaws, except for by Ben, who’s mostly dismissed as a baddie like Palpatine saying Luke was foolish to rely on his friends. Let’s just consider one thing - both Anakin and Luke get called out on their flaws by Yoda (Anakin repeatedly and by lots of other people for that matter) whereas with Rey, the same grumpy-yet-jolly senex pops up from the afterlife to further inform us what a great jedi material she is.

TBH, I have a very cynical theory as to why Rey is being pushed as the main character while it’s difficult to deny that it’s Kylo Ben who does all the plot heavy lifting. I’m pretty sure Ben’s arc was the first one DLF thought out (and the big question is, was it the only one they thought out) and only later on decided to make Rey the main character, which also involved much less spontaneous writing. Mind you, it’s not as if benepemption didn’t have a manufactured subtaste to it, but with Rey’s heroine’s journey stiff structure occasionally substitutes any in-world explanations of her actions (this is why I have to hope renperor has some narrative purpose rather than happening because lovers need to be separated and anti-hero needs to achieve what he wanted in 2nd act). I feel as if whatever potential her character had (and hopefully still has, pending IX) got smothered by layer upon layer of making her likable by everyone, which largely relied on negative characterization: she’s not helpless, she’s not too naive, not cynical, not too emotional, not too emotionless, not morally corruptible, not anything you’ve ever complained about regarding any SW character, not falling for the bad boy, not not not - and in the end it’s kinda difficult to say what Rey is like and while the goal of making her widely likable was achieved, it also made it almost impossible to view her as loveably flawed/annoying like the classic characters. And on top of all this is the matter of making her a nobody just like you!, as DLF appears to say with uncle Sam’s gesture (which also kinda assumes the existence of a Star Wars fan as some uniform entity? because if you identify with her, good for you, I just don’t understand why the franchise assumes I’ll identify with her by the grace of being a SW fan alone), because, as you excellently put it, the message here is that everyone can be chosen by God - which again, it’s not as if the saga ever contradicted this, so why the hell make a case of it? I can’t agree that it’s made into Rey’s flaw, though, imo her low birth only serves to further frame her as an oppressed virtue. And I definitely agree regarding too much of her growth being left off-screen, or before the story ever begins. The problem here isn’t even that it is left off-screen (it’s not as if we had huge insight into any of the pt or ot characters) but rather that her characterizations is left off-screen while being depicted as at least untypical (unique to put it bluntly) for her situation (same goes for Finn). A hopeful, kind person growing up on her on her own in slavery under a nicer name is a rarity and DLF makes a case for it being a rarity - and this sparks up curiosity in her past, as if market pandering to Re/sky wasn’t enough. So from this pov her un-reveal being frustrating isn’t just a case of not wanting to love her or her self only a potentially deeper psychological question getting answered with well, light.

I should add, Ben’s arc feels like the most spontaneous one (though Finn’s may yet be a masterpiece) and he’s the one to admit his fear of not living up to Vader’s legacy, because I think he’s the character serving as the creators’ vessel, more or less like Luke was Lucas’ avatar in ot. In his fear regarding Vader’s legacy one can feel Disney’s fear due to having bought popculture’s holy grail and not being entirely sure what to do with it. On this background, Rey (a literal scavenger of OT’s pieces) and rebels 2.0 repeatedly blessed by Leia come off as what DLF would want to be. And the result is that the character which was supposed to be Vader 2.0 proves the most original and surprising one, whereas “breaths of fresh air” come off as room aromatizers with “fresh” written on them.

And as far as the plot being bended into a pretzel and then disappearing up it’s own ass, well, a part of me is still hoping that taking virtually the same villains as before is a mythological-psychoanalitical metaphor of a nigredo repeating itself until the unconscious gets accepted by the conscious…. but, tbh, as the leaks flow this hope is withering.

#asks #cleaning up the askbox #long asks anon #sw negativity #let rey free from the corset disney

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itsswimmingtragedycollection · 6 years ago

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Netflix’s ‘You’ or ‘Why (young) people need to read more books’

First of all. the obsessed stalker plot is overdone. I mean Misery, Sleeping with the enemy, Fatal attraction, Secret window, The vanishing?? They’re suing. And despite this unimaginative plot, You is being sold as some kind of groundbreaking, fresh, modern take on the Stalker ™, so I guess it’s no wonder only teenagers can buy into that load of bs. Don’t get me wrong, a boring outline, doesn’t necessarily mean a boring story. Consider heist movies for a second. They are all the same, a group of people use their unique skills to pull off a never-been-done-before job, and get away with it. Regardless of whether it’s your cup of tea or not, different approaches, fresh perspective, suspense build up, comedy, action, character development can make this trope interesting over and over again. Unfortunately, You seems to have missed this memo since all of its characters, situations and outcomes have been done, in the same manner, a million times before. This is probably because the entertainment industry is big on recycling. As soon as a new generation of people, who are too young to have seen the classics of the past, matures enough to actually enjoy them, we are flooded with remakes of this and that. Easy money. But, you know what? Being boring and unimaginative isn’t a crime nor does it do any real damage. The actual problem with You is the message it sends. Or better yet, doesn’t send. Not only do we see Joe humanized to the point where he might just be in the right, the show failed to condemn his actions at any single point. And if we take into account that their main audience are young people,it becomes worse. By a lot. As much as the term ‘young and impressionable’ is a cliche, it’s true. If you showed Joe Goldberg to a thirty year old, aka someone with a clear sense of self, firmly set values and moral compass, they wouldn’t face the dilemma of ‘Shit! Maybe he has a point!’ and ‘Damn lock him up and throw away the key!’. Like, for example, an eighteen year old would. At the same time, the vast majority of events that unfold in the season are presented through Joe’s eyes. Therefore, it’s reasonable to assume we don’t get an objective perspective on anything. Or anyone. Which is a fairly weird choice if the aim is to show how easy it is to sympathize with a psycho given the fact that we don’t usually experience those type of people through the inner workings of their minds, but through their actions. But, that alone didn’t have to be a deal-breaker, if we had something to compare his impressions to, for good measure. Contrast is a powerful tool and its proper usage is what accentuates the main message in a movie/tv show. But who tf is Joe’s contrast. Peach? She’s about the same as he is, except for the fact that her idea of ‘helping’ Beck is using her wealth and influence in hopes she will stay by her side forever, and Joe’s is to essentially bend her to his will. Beck? I don’t think so. The only striking difference between them is how she doesn’t fit in anywhere, not her first job, not her second job, not with her friends, not with her family, not in her apartment, while Joe seems to fit in anywhere you throw him. Probably stems from the fact that Beck feels like a fraud while Joe feels everyone but him is a fraud (also part of the reason why we found the characters boring or fake, since he described them to us). His past? If anything it justifies his present actions. Paco? Joe’s mini-me? His purpose is basically to paint a picture of how an abused child grows up, so we’d find it even harder to dislike Joe. Even more so since Joe tries so hard to make life easier for him and eventually kills Paco’s abuser, which, in retrospect, justifies what he did to Mr. Mooney. Ethan? The most annoying mash up of every hipster stereotype you can think of? Barely even worth a mention. Honestly it would have been quite interesting to see the differences between how he experiences the world vs how it really is. Or maybe point out some red flags that nice-guy-by-day-murderer-by-night archetype displays, so we can spot them out. And it would also help get the point the show claims to make across. Instead, what happened was, people liked him and hated everyone else, and the show producers, writers and actors acted as if they pulled some grand prank. ‘HaHaHa joke’s on you, even though we made him completely relatable,good-intended, smart, understandable and likable and all those other people stupid, shallow, boring and mean, he’s the shithead and you all fell for it!’ Kinda like when a three year old covers his eyes and thinks no one can see him. I mean, the only time his portrait of Beck is questioned is when she pours her heart out to Dr Nicky and we get a glimpse of what is actually going on with her. But by that time, there’s no escaping this diluted, fantasy, basic white girl with daddy issues, attention thirsty, cheating whore, promiscuous fraud Joe’s been showing down our throats. Not only that, but up to that point, his conclusions were, one way or the other, confirmed. He didn’t like Benji, Benji turned out to be a prick. He had doubts about Peach, Peach turned out to be obsessed with Beck. He said Beck craves attention, what do you know, she has no curtains in a first floor New York apartment she can’t even afford. He says he knows what’s best for her, she becomes happier and more fulfilled when he takes over her life, until he kills, that is. The viewers don’t side with him because they really, really, actively want to, they side with him because it’s in the structure of the story. Which is reflected in the ‘Ozma of Oz’ by the way. That’s the first book of the series where Dorothy doesn’t crave Kansas anymore and Oz becomes what she wants. Much like the whole world of You is Joe’s fiction, and we are invited to abandon this world, where psychos are not desirable. Similarly, Peach and Joe both have a thing for the Oz books, specifically ‘Ozma of Oz’,they even get into a bit of a conflict over it, meaning they both want their ‘Oz’ to win. Also, another detail I consider important to the plot, is that Peach is a Salinger. Obviously not a coincidence. Salinger is known for his ‘Catcher in the Rye’ and controversial life. But mostly ‘Catcher in the Rye.’ That book is crowned *the* coming of age book, emphasizing how societies high expectations of young people and no consideration of each person as an individual put too much pressure on them that eventually leads to mental disorders. Basically, how the world ruins innocence. But on the other hand, and more interestingly, the most famous criticism calls it ‘a fictional hall or mirrors in which his own self was replicated and congratulated for its brilliance, charm and integrity over and over again.’ Doesn’t that sound familial? Isn’t every character in You just a version of Joe? Paco is a young Joe, Peach is a rich, female Joe with pedigree, Benji is a brute, rich, stupid Joe, Mr. Mooney is what Joe could have become, Dr Nicky pries into people’s lives and abuses his power (sleeping with a patient), same as Joe. Even Beck. She’s your average Joe, not taken to the extreme. And on top of that, he is congratulated for his charm, brilliance and integrity throughout the season, hence why the audiences like him over everyone else. As interesting as that may be, You asks the questions no one needs asked. And gives the wrong answer. Under which circumstances are psychos likable? How easy is it to identify with one? Can sick obsession look desirable? You says yes to all of that. And it says it to teens and preteens who are already being told that boys hit girls when they like them, so why tf not sell them on hot and sexy murderous stalkers as something to lust over? And them blame them for giving in and not their poor storytelling. Encourage your local teenagers to be better than that. See, shows like You, only thrive because they are well accepted. If young people read more books, watched more old and older movies, took more interest in understanding things in depth instead of taking them at face value, we wouldn’t have to even have the conversation ‘Why being attracted to Joe Goldberg is wrong.’ If more young people knew how may bigger, better things exist, a watered down, bland story like this wouldn’t stand a chance. And most certainly couldn’t get away with calling itself fresh, new, brilliant and provocative. My lit professor used to say ‘Every story has been already told.’ We change the names, the places, adapt it to our time, but in essence, all the love stories, the tragedies and everything else in between, have been written. Basically, everything ‘new’ draws its inspiration from somewhere, it doesn’t come from thin air. With that in mind, the more you see, read and hear, the wider your grasp on things becomes, and the easier it is to smell the bs. Which Netflix in general is full of.

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