#i only know him as the writer of 13 r w and I pm thought the execution was clumsy but well-meaning

[south-park-meta]

tbh It made me realise the reason why I loved SP's take on depression was better, if u compare Stan with other characters whose purpose is being social commentary on depression and mental health (Effy Stonem from Skins and Hanah Baker from 13 RW).

Hannah Baker (13RW)

Her character frustates me because 13 RW had so much potential,the idea was creative,narrating how many stuff drove her to suicide: from bullying,h4rr4sment,SA'D r4pe, not only adressing depression but to adress those things as well.

I know the author's intention and Selena Gomez's idea were good and focus on mental health but the development was icky,some dialogues feel rushed to arrive to the tragedy, some traumatic events feel to gave shock value to the audience than genuiely comment on it, besides how the series remarks you that if the love interest would have confesed Hannah, It would have saved her.

Which is very hurtful for many reasons.

A partner can help u throught recovery and being moral support but they aren't ur therapist, adding the fact that selling the idea "if he would have confessed,he would have saved her" when confessing or just be with them doesn't automatically saved them??.

Very different with SP, like Wendy and Kyle genuinely wanted to help Stan, but their moral support isn't enough to get him out of depression and sometimes it can be tiring for others (Kyle)

However If we compare a character that is more similar w/ Stan.

• they are both main characters and the leader of their friendgroup.

• they are the younger sibling.

• they can be charismatic,smart, and independant from such young age

• they can be bit arrogant sometimes.

• both of them are done with everyone's bs.

• both of them distrustful of adults, and sometimes get embarrased at their parent's stupidity.

•struggles with relationship, fear of abandoment.

• heavy uses of alcohol plus depression.

However their character differs on how the writers made them, while Skins's purpose was to show life never ends how u want it to be, and endings could be most be sad or just neutral,healing. Showing adolescence,teens struggling with addictions,disfunctional families,etc.

Skins GLAMOURIZED her depression,unlike her brother's behaviour. He was villianized (bc he was an asshole,he deserved it but he matured),he got heavier consequences. unlike her, while her friends and her love interest were fed up,they forgave her too quickly. it also presents u the narrative "love interest saves depressed person" to a whole level, while she was ""recovering". Out of nowhere,her bf gets killed by her psychiatrist?? Out of shock value. Even when she gets a bit of consequences she managed to manipulate to save herself, even with that smirk of "I'm effy stonem I'm always get what I want".

Effy represents an unhealthy and glamourized ideas of depression that the show pushed on it's female fanbase. (as someone w/ depression, when I saw the show I questioned why my depression didn't make me mysterious and prettier or get a bf that saved me from it)

"Her depression it's destructing her but that makes her even prettier and mysterious, ppl want to be her or fuck her"

and it had such an impact that on tumblr when the show came out until this day, many ppl want to be as mentally ill as Effy or fuck her.

Stan's depression and his self destructive tendencies is never showed as something that makes him mysterious or quirky. Neither his philosophy and way of thinking. His conflicts don't feel like to be shock value.

Althought he didn't get therapy at all,it protrayed realistically how some ppl don't get opportunity to be treated, and how sometimes they just have to move forward, feeling like shit but then a neutral point u don't care about anything,neither happy or sad, and keep moving.

Plus his personality,his behaviour in certain situations makes him more relatable to me than any character.

Tegridy farms burning? It was smth u see was coming. Because his anger is explosive, he puts out with his father behaving like a child,drinking,sometimes belittle him, always fighting with this mom for dumb stuff. The farm was an idea clearly Shelly,Sharon and him disliked. And them fighting over the divorce bc Randy didn't want to share money w/ Sharon was his breaking point, the impulsiveness "oh fuck it farm goes boom bc he is an asshole" cost him sister's life in the bad ending.

They showed Wendy trying to be suppoetive but not as his therapist or "love interest saves depressed person". Neither make Kyle his therapist or sm.

And it sometimes surprised me how SP while is social commentary is also dark humor and parody treated depression withot demonizing Stan neither glamourizing his depression.

Honestly his character is so interesting i could analyze that bitch for hours.

Idk how to expressed it but ugh.

I haven't seen Skins so I don't have a point of reference for it lol. I'm gonna go on a bit of a tangent with this.

Depression in South Park and its fandom is a tricky thing because I think a lot of people don't have realistic, or sensitive, headcanons about depression. Which is probably obvious by my whiny posts lately lol.

But it's also something, both for South Park as a fandom and media at large that needs to be looked at pretty carefully. There's a lot of headcanons that if I'm being blunt I think are God awful and insensitive if people think about it critically at all. Which I do try to weigh with the source being South Park which can in itself be insensitive.

The thing that makes South Park as a source fairly unique is it represents a more stereotypically 'masculine' depression. Which isn't to say women can't or don't act that way. But the 'explosive' depression is something that is more typically present in men. And that isn't something that is often present in media as a whole; the typical depiction of depression is more by-the-book representative of young women. (Again not exclusively so. Some of Stan's more annoying/negative traits are things I've felt and worked to outgrow. Probably some I've failed at lol). It also feels very authentic, presumably because Stan is so much of Trey in ways that characters aren't typically so emotionally autobiographical and usually have multiple writers.

That leads to the crux of my waffling with a lot of handling of depression. It very often is based on female depression, and whether in media or fandom is often based on stereotypes of this, such as cutting etc. A lot of stereotype appears because the authors can't personally relate. But then again, quite often authors DO relate to this, and it occurs so often because the authors themselves are more typically women than men, in particular in fandom. But on the other OTHER hand, depression is often treated as childishly annoying and something to grow out of, and in mocking it it very often is done by exaggerating the female depression stereotype that everyone has in their heads. Even in South Park there's a mess of trying to write mental illness but not being able to relate personally, relating personally but not presenting in the same way as is typical the demographic represented and shown in South Park, and finding mental illness annoying and actively mocking it, usually in these underhanded kind of headcanons.

Anyway this is a mess lol I'm about to clock out for work but hopefully there's still something decent in what I said. Mental illness and its representation is so multifaceted! Maybe I'll talk more about it tomorrow when I'm off :) thanks for the ask!

ETA Now that I'm back home:

Overall what makes good representation is:

Knowing from personal experience

Being earnest

There are at times things you can extrapolate from your personal knowledge of being human and feeling emotions even if you don't know things personally. But it's going to always feel truer when it is truer even with the best of intentions.

Being earnest makes a huge difference, too, and is something I think people forget. Shows like South Park can be and often are insensitive, but the feelings behind them are also often authentic and earnest. Shows like Skins, often aren't earnest by design in that more dramatic/soap opera based shows are usually looking for more shock value than emotional authenticity (someone feel free to correct me if I've missed the mark on the genre though. This is just what I've vaguely picked up from Skins from seeing like 2 or 3 eps and knowing the general premise lol). I think it also speaks to my earlier points in that the VAST majority of the writing credits for this show are men and have no lived experience as being a depressed teen girl. No lived experience and a desire for emotional reaction over emotional connection is, to me, always going to lead to a less 'true' outcome. Even if the show has its own positive merits.

I actually DID read Thirteen Reasons Why (in high school) and watched uhhh about 15 minutes of the show, which I quit because it struck me as OTT in a way that I don't really like. I did like the book okay but also thought at the time 'this dude doesn't know what it's like to be a girl', which is the crux of a lot of problems. But I do think Jay Asher has his heart in the right place which covers up some of the problems. I've heard a little bit about the show that makes me inclined to agree it leans into shock value though.

Side note as a rec, everyone should watch Ordinary People. That movie's good as hell.