#the only choice he made was doing what jenova would want

[aromantic-and-aromatic]

Sephiroth never had control, actually. If he wasn't doing Shinra's bidding he was doing jenova's. He can pretend to be free all he wants, but he was never able to make his own choices, and he still doesn't know how.

[freelanceexorcist]

Minor Rebirth spoilers under the cut.

I just realized something (I told you all it takes me a few tries for things to sink in).

Here's a screen grab of the Gast journal Sephiroth is reading out loud from right before he loses it:

Now this is probably just a stylistic choice to show the audience how top secret the Jenova Project was, but why are parts of it redacted? And at what time were the redactions made?

It just seems like an odd choice. If a document contains information that's sensitive enough that redaction is required for parts of it, why leave it in the basement of an abandoned mansion that anyone can access (difficult as it is to do so)? Why not move all of them and store them in a secure facility that can only be accessed by those with the proper clearance?

Yeah, I know we're talking about scientists that suck so bad at recording data that they didn't even document the date of birth and the blood type of the project's only successful result, but still.

This leads me to think that the redactions aren't of anything top secret, but for the purpose of spreading disinformation. I can't help but wonder if my suspicions about Hojo having a hand in engineering Sephiroth's breakdown are correct and that he wanted him to have disinformation for that reason. The blacked out parts may have led him away from the conclusion that Hojo wanted him to come to.

So what has been blacked out? Lucrecia's name? That she's Sephiroth's mother and Hojo is his father? References to pregnancy and birth that would inform Sephiroth that yes, he was born and not manufactured so therefore, yes, he was a human being that was fucked with in the womb? Mentions of Vincent? Anything that would justify or explain why his childhood was so awful and why he was kept isolated?

And as far as who did the redacting and when, you know Hojo did that shit. And he did it right after he decided that it would be great for science to drop Shinra's live nuke into a small town then slowly drive him to a breakdown with disinformation. I wonder how many entire books were removed before Sephiroth and the gang showed up.

I wonder if this will come up at all in part 3. If not, I'm just overthinking it as usual. But if it does...hmm.

[dangoulains-devotion]

my humble onions on That One Bit Of Dialogue™ (you know the part) from that spooky Nibel sidequest

Prefacing this by saying I'm very chill with whatever they decide to end up doing with Vincent as long as it's interesting and not just "surprise twist for the sake of surprise twist" if u get what I mean. And seeing other theories is fun! So I thought I might share my own

But my personal first impression when he said he'd had plenty of chances to pull the trigger but couldn't doesn't necessarily mean he's talking about literally shooting sephiroth. I parsed it more as a "I knew very well that something was likely to go awry with Sephiroth even if the Jenova detail wasn't known to me, I knew that Lucrecia had chosen to experiment on her unborn child, I knew that with Hojo involved it was going to be a disaster, I knew I knew I knew. But I still couldn't bring myself to stop any of it from happening because I couldn't bear to hurt her."

From what I remember from that sit-down at the table flashback scene in Dirge, he was aware that Something was going to happen to this child but he couldn't have known what. If we're going to follow the line of pulling the trigger literally, I felt like it was more aimed at Hojo in that he regrets he didn't shoot first... My man's could've negated like All of FF7 if he'd beaten Hojo to the punch lmfaoghskhg

Vincent very much does not and has never come across as someone to kill a child or consider doing so, sure he was a turk but I feel like the whole thing with Reno after the plate drop was supposed to drive home that as much as they know certain abhorrent things are part of their job, it doesn't mean that they necessarily want to or feel good about it.

I am certainly interested still in what's gone on in the remakes with his situation of what we previously knew as him sleeping for his sins - the room itself didn't seem like it'd been untouched for 30 years and he had that speaker that let him hear yuffie and barret bantering in the elevator... If he had it as a way of alerting him to intruders, and that it would wake him up, then perhaps there was a literal "I failed to shoot" moment when the Nibelheim Incident was about to happen. He'd have known there was people down there when Sephiroth holed himself up if that was the case, maybe he considered it at that point but hesitated for several reasons

But then again! They kept Crisis Core 1:1, and when Zack finds the coffin, unless Vincent was feigning it to be anti-social, he seemed pretty out cold. So maybe he only started to actively move around/have that speaker *after* the Nibelheim Incident because it tore at him to know that something so tragic happened so close and yet he did nothing because he was asleep... So it was a choice made to be more vigilant? Who knows!

This is kinda rambly and somewhat out of order which I apologise for. It's not even my full thoughts about this damn character, we'd be here all day if I unravelled it all in detail! But I do think that, provided Dirge doesn't get retconned completely, it's likely he considers his gravest sin regarding Sephiroth was that he didn't intervene to divert the poor child's fate before it was even born. And when I say intervene I mean stop the experiment from proceeding rather than tucking his tail and letting the woman he cared for make One Real Fucked Up Choice (that's a part of Lucrecia I appreciated and kind of really hope they don't lighten or retcon about her - the way her ambition and drive was her greatest strength but also her worst traits in that it meant her sense of ethics and the like was tossed to the wayside in favour of Progress™ and Science™.)

Who knows honestly! I'm just glad we got to see him and that he's not optional anymore <3 and that he's a dork besides! I'm also very interested in his left eye... There's some parts where his left eye is much more open than his right when he's wincing or when he back flipped out of the coffin... We've seen he can close them both properly but that small detail felt intentional so I guess we'll seeeeee

I wrote this more as a tossing my 2 cents into the pool, and to organise some of my thoughts I suppose... Cid and Vincent were the two parts I was most excited for with Rebirth and after having completed it as well as side quests and the QB storyline I have much 2 think about...

If you read all the way to here then I appreciate u sticking with my rambling... I am mentally unwell about that tragic old man 🫡

[altocat]

So here is a thought that I don't know if it crossed your mind but it crossed mine: the g kids are under surveillance as they grow up both reports and otherwise, so do you think Genesis' parents never officially adopted him because Shinra didn't want to risk it getting messy if they turned out to be interesting enough to reabsorb/if Sephiroth went down and they needed a back up? Like the kids were probably born to Shinra people in the Jenova project labs at Nibelheim since Hollander was there too, I doubt they have birth certificates or any official documentation that could be questioned.

That's a tricky area, because so much of Angeal and Genesis' childhood described in very vague details without much info. From what I understand (and I could be forgetting things so please correct me), they both seemed to have a fairly "normal" human upbringing compared to Sephiroth. They were given families, had room for activities, experienced different financial backgrounds, etc. They got to "enlist" into SOLDIER by their own choice, though it's possible they were manipulated and groomed into doing so. Either way, their lives didn't seem as restricted and they were probably given more freedom than the more meticulously structured Project S.

But with that said, Hollander was still keeping tabs on them. They were likely born in the labs like you mentioned. Or at least Genesis probably was. Since Angeal was Gillian's son, he might have been born in Banora if she was previously stationed there and not Nibelheim. They were apparently observed enough for Shinra to determine the failure of the overall project. It might be that Shinra pretty much lost all interest once Sephiroth proved to be a successful test subject.

Regarding the adoption itself, very very tricky. I point to Gillian again because Angeal was allowed to remain with her, something that could have potentially jeopardized the project if her feelings got in the way. As for Genesis...it's so unclear what's his official status in relation to his parents. We don't know who his biological parents are. It's possible that his parents are foster parents, but we also know that Genesis was considered the biggest disappointment of Project G and was likely pushed aside in favor of Angeal, and then later Sephiroth. So he might have had the leniency of a full adoption. I think Angeal probably would have been the main successor if Sephiroth had died or had proven to be disappointing in the long run.

The general timeline of Project G is pretty sketchy. We can assume that Sephiroth is the youngest of the trio. But it's not clear if Genesis was born before Angeal, or vice versa. If he was born first, his parents could have initially just been foster parents, only to adopt him fully once Sephiroth made Project G irrelevant.

[silver-wield]

Hmm I get your point now about the "Zack feelings" I really do, so thank you for this! But personally I don't equate it as soldier cloud having feelings 'himself' but that it's just as way to force him to go farther away from tifa. Which we literally have to do in the game, to get her affection stats up. Also, to place that in is to also amplify that CA is never a thing that has it's own entity, it's all built by the illusion of ZA, which aerith is suffering from as well. Only idiots which they are, will be happy for such a lie, and at that point it's easier to just show zack and be done with it. I really don't get the appeal of it, because we have telenovelas where, for example a heart transplant is made and you fell in love with the one who the original owner loves but you love someone else already. In the end, the mc just forces himself to see what's real and like servers his ties with the owner's underlying wishes had he lived. He is not this person and he is only in love with his first love. Aka not real.

You see I'm trying to wrap my head around her resolution scene about something not being real. And I did find a cloti who insisted, that soldier cloud is incapable of falling in love because his affections, his ability to love is locked within the lifestream, that is for tifa only. Now, so whatever romantic feelings he may have, any sort of "falling in love" feeling he may have for her, is not love , but just 'attraction'. So it isn't real. But this is where it becomes weird to me. So soldier cloud cannot love but he can feel attraction? So this is him feeling attraction for aerith... While shamelessly pinning for tifa at the same time? I assume this is for the fans who want to get her hence the "even IF" and not "even THOUGH" because not everyone will favor her after all in they playthrough. But it gives precedent that if jenova, us the players favoured her.. that would mean soldier cloud is capable of being attracted to her in his soldier cloud way without the interference of 'zack', hence still felt by his own feelings but not to the extent of real cloud's?

This doesn't make sense to me because in part 1, it's very evident that he is not attracted to aerith in any shape or form. But it is built up that he is very much so with tifa. So the 'attraction' part just makes me go huh? In this theory. Doesn't paint him in a good light even if it's not his fault, but the player's.

I suppose im just finding a way to see if cloud, despite being forced by the player to do things, will not waver ever. After all affection points show the character chosen's affection for you, but not necessarily the mc himself.

I hope I made sense, I hope I'm not annoying. I've seen some really believe in this cloti's theory and it just sends weird vibes to me, so in short it forces me to just believe that soldier cloud is fickle in nature but this isn't real cloud anyway. Real cloud is loyal to tifa. Hmm... It would be great if this is evidently clear but still it seems as though it hints a disgusting possibility that had cloud been complete and never broken? Maybe he would be attracted to her because he did when he was broken, but it's just that tifa came first so it cannot be. I hate it, so this is why I don't like this theory I keep on seeing. I just don't see cloud have a thing for women who mess with his boundaries as shown with almost all the females in the game. Tifa is the only different one on purpose.

English isn't my first language so saying all of these across was difficult but I hope I made sense. I still think there's more that can expand on this part of soldier cloud in general though. It's pointless for me to find a direct answer for everything now anyway, so I'll just wait. I just don't want 'any implication' that aerith had a chance in any way, because Tifa deserves better than be another choice unlike how cloud is 'the one' for her alone. Strict, I know.. but I don't care.

Okay it's not that soldier Cloud has his own set of separate feelings, it's that Cloud has feelings, but some are neutered by jenova so it's like he gets a diluted version of them. There's also Sephiroth manipulating him for his own purposes, so he's under this constant state of mental assault.

Cloud loves Tifa. It's the core of his entire being. Everything he ever did was to be worthy of her in hopes that she'd fall in love with him. That core can't be removed. We see what happens in OG when Cloud loses Tifa's trust. He pretty much falls apart and goes full black cloak doing Sephiroth's bidding. That's why Seph wants to keep Cloud on edge around Tifa. The less close they are the more control he has, but jenova hates Aerith. She hates cetra because they purify the planet's energy and her goal is to rot it from the inside and use it as a ride to the next planet so she can repeat the process. That's why Aerith has to die from Jenova's pov. But Sephiroth is using Aerith to force Cloud to keep his distance from Tifa because around Aerith he is more distant from his true feelings.

At no point does Aerith stand a chance with Cloud because Cloud's true feelings for Tifa always exist, even if he can't fully reach them all the time. When he's around Tifa he becomes closer to his true self, but he won't be himself until the lifestream scene.

[icharchivist]

I think I vaguely know who Lucrecia is, like Sephiroth's biological mother, right?

Did she die?

I'm unclear on whether she's alive in the present

Lucrecia is, indeed, Sephiroth's biological mother.

and yeah her current situation is a bit difficult to explain. Technically she's alive, but she's in a sort of slumber/coma so she's out of commission still

her parts of the stories are in late OG and in Dirge of Cerberus (Vincent's centric sequel game) and it's a bit far in my mind, but from what i recall:

Lucrecia was one of the scientist working at Shinra and who was supervising the Jenova Project with Hojo, who was also her husband.

she is also the student of Grimoire Valentine, Vincent's father, so she had known Vincent for a very long time. Vincent then became a Turk after his father's death, and he was especially set to protect Lucrecia and Hojo, and their experimentation.

Vincent fell in love with Lucrecia then, and while she did get flirty with him, science was always much more important to her, and it's why she got along so well with her husband. (malpractice powercouple).

The Jenova project was all about utilizing Jenova's cells in order to unlock the deepest secrets of the earth and Cetra, and various groups of scientist tried to do so in some level. One of those projects that was close, but not quite enough, was to insert Jenova's cells into babies who were just born, but even that ended up going off the rails, and two of the most successful experiment from this specific project, called Project G, ended up deteriorating as they grew older. (Project G's two kids were also incidentally Sephiroth's best friends growing up. until shit hit the fan.)

Realizing that things weren't going well and that their scientist rivals were the ones moving through it, and seeing that babies had taken on the cells, Hojo AND Lucrecia started Project S, and inserted Jenova's cells into her when she was pregnant.

Fearing for her life, Vincent disobeyed his orders as a Turk to beg Lucrecia to rethink all of this. instead Hojo had Vincent locked away and experiments made on him.

Project S turned out to be successful, but after Sephiroth's birth, Lucrecia was filled with regrets and did realize she had gone too far. Hojo would not step away though, and Lucrecia had no choice but to run away.

if i'm not mistaken, the fact she still bore those cells when she was pregnant poisoned her body. In a normal situation she was going to die.

So instead she found a magical cave in which she could lock herself in ice, in a slumber she could only wake up from years into the future, hoping her knowledge of the experiments they made would be of use then.

Meanwhile Hojo raised Sephiroth with coldness and violence to turn him into a weapon of war, and Sephiroth was not made aware of his parentage except that his mother was "Jenova". Sephiroth grew under Hojo's tutelage without knowledge of Lucrecia. (people have noticed though that Jenova, who can change her appearance, has appeared to Sephiroth with traits similar to Lucrecia, even more so to convince him she was his mother)

After being experimented on, Vincent ended up locked under the caves of the Shinra Mansion in Nibelheim, locked in a coffin, unable to leave but also unwilling, considering it his sin that he never could stop Lucrecia and Hojo, not being able to save Lucrecia, nor being able to do anything regarding Sephiroth -- not to mention he has been turned into a monster, and how he was a Turk who had done a lot of terrible things to allow Lucrecia and Hojo to get on their researches.

So when Cloud and co wakes him up, Vincent originally wants nothing to do with all of this until they mention they're looking for Sephiroth, and he puts together it was Lucrecia's child, and so he should work to stop him, because maybe it'll excuse his sins.

If you go with Vincent to the Cave Lucrecia locked herself in, she will manage to break from her slumber for a while enough to express her regrets, and it's the way we learn about the flashbacks in the OG and the way we learn Sephiroth isn't Jenova's son to start with. (because all i mentioned are things we either learn there, or in DOC, so before this point in the game you're led to accept Sephiroth must be Jenova's son.. right?)

But after passing on a special power to Vincent to entrust him with repairing her mistakes, she goes back into slumber.

In Dirge of Cerberus, which is set about 3 years after the OG, Vincent still regularly goes to this cave to look over Lucrecia hoping she will wake up one day. She never had.

so yeah that's what's up with Lucrecia. Girlboss who malpracticed too close to the sun and Vincent's lost love.

The more u know.

[cloud-hc]

You know I don’t think I’ve made an detailed post regarding why I believe Cloud is a more selfish / self-interested person than the “hero” type. Which considering he is the protagonist of OG, 7RE and AC - I don’t know if that does turns peoples heads in curiosity or think I way off, but it wouldn’t be an invalid reaction. After all, Cloud took part in saving the world - how is he self-interested? 

Well, I’m going to answer that because dash is busy feeding me validation today. Keep liking those posts, the more I talk LMAO.

But for real - this isn’t my first time writing Cloud but I do feel like this round is when I’ve seriously stopped to study every single part of. I can’t tell you what first drew my attention to this - I do know I did think it was just part of the whole SOLDIER persona he wears that isn’t his true self, but I feel like I have valid reason to think otherwise at this point. Let’s go back to his childhood - to the promise in specific.

I don’t know the Japanese context so I am only basing these observations based off the English translations of the game, but in both OG and 7RE.. Cloud does not mention wanting to be a hero once. He mentions he wants to go into SOLDIER and to be the best - like Sephiroth. Being the best and looking up to a war hero does not parallel to wanting to be a hero, unlike Zack who says very specifically he wants to be a hero. In OG when Tifa is helping Cloud put himself back together in the lifestream he finally confesses his motivations for wanting to join SOLDIER - to impress Tifa and to get her to notice him.

Both of those goals - to be better than Sephiroth and to impress Tifa are self-interested. They’re about HIM - not about heroics or helping other people. That is pushed on him by Tifa and others, Tifa by requesting that promise to come save her if she’s ever in need ( keep in mind Cloud is confused and puzzled by that before eventually agreeing ; again, I don’t think heroism was on his mind - she just assumed he wanted to be a hero ) and AVALANCHE in 7RE honestly would not stop breathing down his throat about telling him what his motivations are. No wonder he got fucking annoyed. you’re doing this because you care! you’re going to be joining us! He’s a merc - that’s it, and they aren’t listening. He isn’t helping them because he cares about the Planet. He’s just doing his job.

During the events of OG, it’s later revealed that the Sephiroth cells inside of him demanding the reunion. That’s why he was the one hunting Sephiroth down in OG - because he didn’t have a choice. Cloud is weak to the Jenova cells in his body and those cells manipulated him into believing it was his idea and his own motivation to go after Sephiroth when it wasn’t - he was being lead like a moth to a flame and helpless to deviate from that.. even knowing they were horribly, horribly outmatched. He wasn’t out to save the world - his body and mind literally wasn’t of his own autonomy. 

Even the things he does for other people are of his own self-interest. If he doesn’t want to do something, he flat out will not do it or he will dig his heels in the entire time he’s dragged. The ones he helps are because he wants to help them - not because it’s the right thing to do, but because he - in specific - cares about that person in specific. Someone who Cloud actually cares about has a higher chance of getting him to budge on things he isn’t crazy about to him even willingly going out of his way to do things for them because he cares about them - while he would not do the same action for another often and usually not without compensation. Even the orphan children of the slums couldn’t get out of paying him at least three gil for helping kill some monsters - ORPHAN CHILDREN!

Even him caring about someone runs a risk of that not being enough. In early OG, Tifa wants to keep a closer eye on him and wants him to stay around AVALANCHE longer. She found him in a horrible condition and when she asked about the past, he freaked out - whipping his sword everywhere. He isn’t stable - something is wrong and she can’t ask him about it without triggering him, so she’s keeping an eye on him. He finishes his gig with AVALANCHE and just wants to leave, declaring he doesn’t care about shit, much less the Planet, and none of it his his problem. It takes Tifa calling him out on walking out on his childhood friend along with pulling the promise back up to pull at nostalgia to finally make him stop - it took going there to make him just listen.

If you really look at Cloud’s actions - so much is lead about his own personal gain or what matters to him directly verses the hero-type of wanting to help others because it’s the moral and right thing to do. I’m not declaring that ALL of his choices are completely self-serving - totally not. He has done good thing, and he’s done bad things. But his core self is one that bases his actions that are more in his interest than the interest of others.

[jencva]

𝙿𝙻𝙰𝚈𝙸𝙽𝙶 𝚃𝚁𝙰𝙽𝚂𝙼𝙸𝚂𝚂𝙸𝙾𝙽 / 𝙻𝙾𝙰𝙳𝙸𝙽𝙶… 𝟷𝟶𝟶% 𝙲𝙾𝙼𝙿𝙻𝙴𝚃𝙴 / 𝚁𝙴𝙲𝙾𝚁𝙳𝙸𝙽𝙶 𝙳𝙰𝚃𝙰 𝙵𝙸𝙻𝙴:

Lights illuminated the subject AUFV7 in the middle of the room, perfectly preserved in it's septic tank, they eyes were closed, as if resting ever peacefully. Reeve's tense shoulders had lowered; relaxed. Relieved. Cale peeked around the corner to see it was still there. "Ah, thank the gods it's still ---"

Cale's words were cut short, as was his throat. In the blink of an eye, Reeve felt the warmth of the Sargent's blood spear on his face. Everyone in the room saw the culprit walk in. No one expected the ice to break by blood shed. Putting two and two together, Reeve fell right into this trap, from the very beginning. She wanted him to go here, eventually, knowing he would have no choice but to show up, bring in a whole army behind him for protection. She was the one who knew that he had the key to open the door to AUFV7. Without even speaking a word of her plan, it all fell into place. Prodding his mind wasn't to know the information at all. It was to see what was to come. He was her puppet... Jenova was there, blood red lips, and a determined look in her sinister stare. The red room was lit up with gun shots as the Soldiers open fired. Reeve froze in place; a static in his head that made him drop his revolver. Like a thousand wires being unplugged from his mind, hazed in pain. What was this? Jenova's movements were faster than time. One tick, she was flipping through the air, this pressure of light coming from her palm that mutilated anything she touched, as in her right hand was a burst of force that blew through the armada of men, smearing them over the walls. No one even had the time to scream. Bullets hit bullets, Jenova zipped and slaughtered anything in her way. "No.. stop... Please, don't do this." Reeve could only beg under his breath, falling to a knee. The static only became louder, and his nose began to bleed. Jenova stood in front of him, her stare was like a thousand knives in his soul, until her hand rested on his shoulder. The world felt calm. What was happening? Dare he look back up at her? Into those glassy cosmic eyes of hers? ▊▊❝ 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘬 𝘺𝘰𝘶, 𝘱𝘶𝘱𝘱𝘦𝘵. 𝘠𝘰𝘶 𝘥𝘪𝘥 𝘸𝘦𝘭𝘭. ❞ And her footsteps rap, tap, tapped past him. He heard the glass break. There was nothing he could do but listen, pinching his eyes closed. "...Why me? Out of anyone in ShinRa? Anyone else on the council? Why?" Her presence stood next to him, once more. Perhaps she did owe him an ease of mind. Perhaps she could reward him with that kindness. Her bloodied hand rested once more upon his shoulder, breathing in as she held the head close against her hip with the other. ▊▊❝ 𝘐 𝘵𝘳𝘶𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘺𝘰𝘶. 𝘈 𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘰'𝘴 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘬𝘦𝘥 𝘥𝘰𝘸𝘯 𝘶𝘱𝘰𝘯 𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘱𝘦𝘦𝘳𝘴. 𝘞𝘦'𝘳𝘦 𝘣𝘰𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘢𝘮𝘦. 𝘌𝘢𝘨𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘰 𝘬𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘥𝘦𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘴, 𝘯𝘰 𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘩𝘰𝘸 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘺. ❞ Her form shifted, that hand shifting to lift his chin. The light behind him had made the details of her face a lot less sinister in the red. She was breathtakingly terrifying. ▊▊❝ 𝘠𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘫𝘰𝘣 𝘪𝘴 𝘥𝘰𝘯𝘦. 𝘠𝘰𝘶 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘸𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘶𝘱, 𝘯𝘰𝘸.❞ ________ Reeve shot up out of his office chair, scaring the living out of his assistant. He felt as though it was all too real, the dream he had. Neck snapped in his assistance's direction. "...How long was I out?" The assistant blinked and gave a shrug. "I'm not sure, sir. I tried shaking you awake because your nose was bleeding..." A pause came about the room before Reeve plucked a tissue from his desk and rested it just under his lip. Was it a headache, like normal? What was this dream? "Right. It happens. Why'd you come in so early?" The girl had a stack of folders with red labels. A typical red label meant it was confidential, reminding him of the plate fall... how the insurance policies had to be re written, how the public was going to be handled without being frightened. Being left to do his superior's dirty work. Brows furrowed and he was handed over the folders. "What's these in regard to, do you know?" "They told me very little, but the transit who passed them on said an artifact was stolen in one of our facilities? I'm not sure what artifact we would be holding that isn't here, though." Reeve clicked his pen and signed the bottom of the paper, clipped to the first folder before opening it. "What's the facility serial number?" The assistant scanned through her tablet, tapping the screen as she found it. "AUFV7."

𝐓𝐑𝐀𝐍𝐒𝐌𝐈𝐒𝐒𝐈𝐎𝐍 𝐏𝐀𝐑𝐓 𝟐/���� 𝙿𝚁𝙾����𝚁𝙰𝙼 𝙴𝙽𝙳𝙴𝙳 [?]

[phantomyre]

The venom in Sephiroth’s voice was anything but subtle. Sephiroth could lightly regard anyone else’s plight in favor of his own. And while others would have spurned it all in the name of calling Sephiroth a full-bred monster, Vincent could understand Sephiroth’s point of view to some degree. However, he also knew that what Sephiroth knew of the Turks was only from the viewpoint of someone who had no understanding of kindness, of sympathy, a conscience, or simply moral dilemma. One couldn’t have a set of morals without an opposing side to compare it with. There was no point in correcting Sephiroth’s opinions in that respect.

“I cannot speak for the other departments. But as a Turk, the only way to leave Shinra is death. To defy ones orders could also lead to the same punishment.” The Turks were like walking secret databases. They were a huge liability to the company. The only free Turk was a dead Turk. Once a Turk, always a Turk.

Perhaps to Sephiroth, death was indeed a choice. But for mortals, it was the end of everything. Yet knowing this, Vincent had chosen to defy Hojo. He should have been dead. But instead, he had received an even worse punishment. Neither of them had the choice of becoming a monster. But unlike Sephiroth, Vincent did have a choice stepping into Shinra and submitting himself as a permanent employee of Shinra. He had a choice to become complacent and allow Hojo to work unsullied. He would have probably been high up in the ranks, and still be human, well respected within Shinra as head of the Turks. But now he was a killing machine, Sephiroth was a monster, and Lucrecia’s existence hung in the balance. If death could be considered a choice, then technically Sephiroth was correct. Knowing what Vincent knew of the Jenova cells, death was a luxury to even Sephiroth. The man was indeed a prisoner to the inevitable. It was tragic… something Sephiroth was quick to remind Vincent about. What was more blood on top of blood already spilled?

Vincent knew there was little he could do to explain the reasoning behind his motivation to spare the life of another. A soft glare crossed over Vincent’s face as Sephiroth trivialized his past murders. At this point, he couldn’t tell if it was Sephiroth or Jenova trying to worm their way under his nerves. Either way, he could feel a trap once again being laid. It was just a ploy to get him to do even more killings. “…What makes you think I could easily take theirs, when I hesitate to take yours?” Sephiroth had killed more than all the Turks combined. He was the most feared being in the entire planet, outside of Jenova. While one could argue Sephiroth had committed the greater evil, the flip-side could also be stated that Sephiroth saw himself as a savior. The Turks were ‘just doing their job’. Sephiroth was ‘just doing what Jenova wanted’. The sharp gaze from Sephiroth didn’t visually affect Vincent, but he felt it very keenly all the same. It was fleeting, but that response was coming from the depths of a hurt boy buried long ago. As Sephiroth drew his gaze upward, his second comment caught Vincent a bit off guard. Was Sephiroth admitting he had wished he had perished those many years ago…? Vincent wouldn’t have doubted such a dark thought had crossed his mind. It had certainly been one of his own wishes as well. The question made the gunslinger grimace and look away, diverting his gaze towards some of the gaping caverns where the winds were swirling. He wasn’t any better than Sephiroth. But at least he had something to anchor his sanity onto-- For now at least. He was merely a step away from becoming no different. “To kill the son of the woman who loved him” Vincent spoke more to himself than to Sephiroth, his fist tensing slightly at his side. "Or to let him live, knowing he would suffer." The guilt-laden gunslinger lifted his eyes, finally meeting Sephiroth's dagger-like gaze; his own eyes reflecting something akin to sympathy and less malice. "You were robbed of a normal life, yes." "...But should I have deprived you of a chance to live, as well?"

The night wore on, and as the two made there way up the mountains through the snow, morning had begun to break, eventually casting a light glow over the land. However, it didn't give off its usual warmth. Even the sun's warmth was in competition with the impending terror that was wading through the snow and towards the Whirling Maze. Even the planet itself seemed to tremble the closer Sephiroth and Vincent approached their destination. It seemed all but certain the planet would meet its demise. Vincent could feel the planet's pulse grow stronger, tugging at his chest as if begging him not to move further. But if he were to spare the lives of those he cared about, he had no choice but to follow the planet's most feared enemy, knowing he was also now an accomplice.

All the while, neither of them spoke a word even though both were hyper aware of one another's presence. One was tirelessly hastening towards his goal with reckless abandon, while the other was feeling the weight of every footstep getting heavier, and more blood stained the closer their destination became. Vincent's mind was trying to puzzle the pieces together, contemplating what all would befall Cloud and the others once they did meet up.

No matter how one could spin it, the fact that Vincent was now serving as a protector of Cloud's and the planet's worst enemy, not to mention his friend's murderer... it spelled betrayal on a level that would have put Cait Sith aka Reeve to shame. If the entire party turned against him, so be it. Perhaps it would be better in the long run for their sake. Vincent had sworn to never get close to anyone again. But here he was worrying about the bond he had with his friends, especially Cloud-- the fragility of life, friendship, and forgiveness. If things went exactly the way Sephiroth and Jenova intended, Vincent would lose them all, including Lucrecia. Even if they managed to defeat Sephiroth and Jenova, the planet was already on the verge of death. Sephiroth was merely enabling and hastening the inevitable. And once the planet had had enough, he would still be left alone, and Lucrecia's spirit would be lost to the abyss along with every other soul Vincent had ever cared about. So why was he going through with this...?

At this time, the snow had all but vanished, being exchanged for some more harsh winds that threatened to cast off any and all over the depths of the canyon. No sane individual would cross such a dangerous path. The essence of death was growing stronger from within the caverns of the Maze, indicating to Vincent that several had made this place their resting place. He could already tell it would soon become a tomb for countless hooded figures, should they dare to venture further in pursuit of Sephiroth.

Vincent's thoughts were diverted once he heard Sephiroth's voice, guiding his attention to the large edifices and winding path before them. Though he had never ventured into this place before, Sephiroth’s words told him everything he needed to know when it came to how close their destination was. The sinking feeling was more keen than ever.

Vincent watched as Sephiroth turned towards him, crimson and mako colors clashing in a brief moment of mild confusion. The question wasn't exactly surprising. But the genuine curiosity got Vincent's attention more than the question itself. Why did Sephiroth care? Was this just a ploy to pull out any weakness from the gunslinger? Or was Sephiroth actually curious about what made Vincent a sympathizer instead of a cold-blooded murderer?

For a moment, Vincent stared at Sephiroth, a hint of surprise in his eyes before he decided to answer. "Not all who bear the mark of Shinra are mindless killers. Humans aren't that simple." Vincent began, looking off the side to look at the canyons around them, or perhaps he was sparing himself Sephiroth's gaze. "Sometimes... they don't have a choice when it comes to committing atrocities. Just like when you didn't have a choice to become what you are today." Perhaps Sephiroth could understand that much, but even then, Vincent knew it would have been ludicrace to hope for Sephiroth to have any sympathy for humans at this point.

"If I didn't spare them, then it would be easier to take the lives of many more." In essence, he would become numb to killing. He furrowed his brow and shut his eyes for a moment, keeping some thoughts to himself, the wind tossing his hair and cloak in a chilling breeze.

A moment later, he lifted his head and allowed their eyes to join once again, a slight hint of determination in his gaze. "...and should I fail to quell the beast inside, I would become no different... than you."

[fury-brand]

aeriseph lol

squid you ignorant slut.

OTP Like You Wouldn’t Believe

Why are you like this?

I don’t know. Tragic backstory, youth spent as a Sephiroth fucker, the fact that when you like something for long enough you just wind up incepted 8 layers deep in your own recursive bullshit. I will never change. I will never improve.

What do you like about it?

well they’ve got the stabbing bit from utena/anthy down pat so it would be good to add some hand-holding into the mix, amirite???

Anyway, Sephiroth and Aeris are my super duper favourites. They’re narrative foils and fated enemies, bearers of the black and white materia, the culmination of a 2000 year old conflict between Jenova and the Cetra, the unnatural consequence of Shinra’s willingness to corrupt any and all nature and the only person able to produce living, growing greenery in the slums of Midgar. They come from similar circumstances, they are both half-human/half-other, they navigate that identity in opposite directions and they doom one another. Oh boy, do they doom one another.

Finally, crucially, they both come to pretty tragic endings (in Sephiroth’s case, the “this guy is incapable of making good choices” kind of tragedy) with a whiff of inevitability about them. These two are dominoes in the rube goldberg machine of fate, set against each other from the start, culminating in a conflict of apocalyptic proportions. The question of “Could Sephiroth ever have been anything better?” is directly connected to the question of “Could Aeris have survived?” And not even just because he murders her, but also because he murders her specifically because she takes it upon herself to “deal with” him (and good for her - kick his ass baby) - because nobody else can do it. Because her hand was forced in a lot of ways.

And then getting into their personalities - Aeris is outgoing and stubborn and refuses to give any ground on the things she believes but cagey and mistrustful and allergic to being actually emotionally honest with people, telling them the truth about how she feels. Sephiroth will not stop telling you how he feels, all the time, usually in a way that suggests he is either deep in denial about it or just totally lacking in any kind of meaningful perception. It makes for an interesting potential combination of strengths/weaknesses. They’re also both lonely people, both explicitly harmed by Shinra and by a lack of community, kinship, people who are like them. 

So what you’ve got is a pair of people who are uniquely positioned to understand and potentially support each other who are, through a combination of their differences, their traumas, the things that make them who they are AND the choices that they’ve made about who they want to be, stuck enacting cycles of violence that extend out literally millenia before they were ever born, that remained manifest even between their fathers. It makes me. Actually insane. I can’t handle it.

Friends, enemies, lovers, I am truly fine with all of the above, but they need to hold hands.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

Aeris raining on Sephiroth to make him Good is my literal nightmare scenario and I never want this ship to be canon, it is not safe in square enix hands

[tiifalockhart]

End of the F**king World

Pairing: Sephiroth/Reader

Word Count: 3k

Warnings: major character death, implications of stalker behavior, mentions of torture, mentions of insanity, portrayal of mental illness, end of the world, anxiety, depression, alludes to suicide

A/N: this wasn’t a request, however, this idea had been on my mind for quite awhile. with lots of motivation, i finally put it into words. please keep in mind that there are huge trigger warnings for this content, since it is probably the most angsty and intense thing i’ve written on this blog!! i hope you enjoy reading, feedback is greatly appreciated

Ao3 || Masterlist 

After it all had fallen apart, there was nothing left to hope for. 

Genesis was gone, Angeal was dead, Zack was dead, Sephiroth was... Dead? His body was found deep inside the destroyed Nibleheim reactor, so it was possible that Sephiroth was dead, right? But...

You aren’t supposed to see dead people.

So why was it that Sephiroth was constantly following you around? Why was he silently watching you at all times? No matter where you looked, he was there. It was chilling to see his cat-like mako eyes pierce into your skull. His twisted smirk made your stomach churn and want to run away as fast as you could, but there was no where to run. He was always with you. Whether you wanted him or not, it seemed like you didn’t have a choice. 

What did you do to earn such a strange connection to the dead? 

That’s right... In Nibleheim, you were there. You were one of the sole survivors that witnessed it all. The roaring flames, the deafening screams and cries of dying people, the sound of buildings collapsing and blades crashing against one another, you relived it every time you closed your eyes. 

Sephiroth sought out to kill you, even though you were a simple bystander. But... That wasn’t the complete truth, was it? You were more important than anyone else at Nibleheim. That’s why he came after you, right? Think of it as... Young love, a childhood best friend, his only friend, that’s what you were. That is, until you mysteriously disappeared and left him all alone. You were taken far away from Shinra after being deemed as... “Intruding.” You and Sephiroth were just children, you didn’t understand the world. You always thought wishfully because even as a child, you knew that Sephiroth didn’t belong in a laboratory twenty-four-seven. You put all of these ideas of “running away” or “sneaking out” into his head. He became obsessed with the idea for the longest time. He wanted to run away, he wanted to experience this life that you mentioned so many times, he wanted to experience normalcy. 

When Hojo caught wind of this... Disobedience, he sent you and your family far away. He sent you as far away as he could. Your father began to work at the Nibleheim Mansion as a book keeper as punishment for your indiscipline. Sephiroth felt betrayed by your disappearance. He blamed you for the punishments he received for wanting to escape. He blamed you for leaving him alone to deal with it. He never forgot about it, instead he bottled it up and chalked it up to some kind of cruel training he had to go to. 

As he grew up, those thoughts bothered him less and less. He figured he would never have to see you again, therefore he would never have to face that trauma again. Instead of coping with it, he pushed it away to the deepest place he could and tried to forget about it. But as things around him began to crumble, all of his past traumas began to surface again. Genesis ended up leaving him, so did Angeal. His two friends, his only friends since you, ended up leaving him. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? 

Surprisingly, it didn’t take long for him to snap. The moment he knew he was being sent to Nibleheim for a mission, dread began to build up inside of him. As if it were a sixth sense, he knew something was going to happen here. He made sure to keep his guard up as they arrived at Nibleheim, who knew what was going to happen?

What he didn’t expect, though, was that the threat he was dreading would end up being himself. Dealing with the loss of his two friends was enough, but he never expected having to face you after all those years. You looked exactly the same from when you were a child. Sephiroth knew who you were in an instance when he saw you in that village. He knew that he couldn’t stay. He had to run from you, he had to run, he had to. He avoided you like the plague, unwilling to unpack the bottled-up regret and anger he held for you. His mind couldn’t stop wandering to his childhood with you, he began to question everything. Why were you here in Nibleheim? Why did you leave him? Why was he punished because of you? Why did Genesis and Angeal have to leave, too? He felt sick, he felt weak and dizzy, nothing was making sense anymore. 

That was just the tip of the iceberg, though. 

The moment his eyes landed on those monsters in the reactor, he felt something inside of him shatter. He needed answers. He needed anything. 

He needed something. 

Something to grip onto.

He was losing his mind. 

What was reality? What was real and what was fake? 

He couldn’t hear himself over his own thoughts anymore. He was descending into madness. He couldn’t stop himself from wandering into that library. It was similar to a deep, primal instinct. It felt like he was hunting for prey. But there was no prey. He was hunting for... Nothing? It didn’t make sense, nothing made sense anymore. The voices of concern were drowned out by his mind screaming at him. His mind told him that he couldn’t eat or sleep until he had answers. Who was he? Who were his parents? Why did he want to escape? What are these voices in his head? 

He paced back and forth until his legs were numb, his fingers frantically flipped through the pages of those books, his heart pounded in his chest to the point where it was deafening. He was terrified for the first time in his life. But it wasn’t because of some foe he had to face. No... 

He was terrified of himself. 

That’s when he stumbled upon the documents named ‘Project S.’ His fingers trembled as his eyes scanned the pages. His arms grew weak, he couldn’t stand anymore and ended up collapsing against the wall. He slid down the wall slowly as he took in every bit of information. 

He was... A monster? 

No.

He was an Ancient...

He was a God.

This was his world. 

It all belonged to him.

He was betrayed by everyone. He was treated like an experiment on his own Earth. He was destroyed and numbed to the cruelties of this Earth, used by simple humans for their own bidding. He was dumbed down to a puppet. Everyone else had to have known, right? His mother was Jenova... The J.E.N.O.V.A.? They lied to him. How could they all keep this from him..? His own friends, his mentors and companions? Why did they... It didn’t make sense. Even Zack hid all of this from him... His last friend...

It all started with the books. 

Sephiroth burned them all. He was caught up in a fit of rage. He was betrayed by everyone. Everyone he’s come to know has known what he is, but decided to hide it. His entire existence was a lie. It was all fabricated from birth. How many people knew besides the scientists? The people he laid down his life for ended up betraying him. He would never forgive the human race for what they’ve done.

Before he knew it, the entire village was in flames. Overcome with rage, Sephiroth decided he was personally going to rip the world apart. Everyone would suffer because of what they’ve done to him. There was no room for negotiation anymore, they lost that privilege many years ago. 

During this fit of rage, Sephiroth’s eyes managed to land on you. This was where it all started, wasn’t it? You could have saved him, you could have told him the truth. You knew what he was, but you participated in treating him like... Like some lab rat. You lied, and you were just as guilty as everyone else. 

He couldn’t stop himself from raising Masamune over his head. His vision was red with anger, he was no longer thinking for himself. His mind screamed at him. This is what they wanted, wasn’t it? A truly powerful being... 

He’d show you what power really looks like. 

It was all your fault. 

How you managed to escape was a mystery to all. How Sephiroth was still alive was a mystery to you. You couldn’t wrap your head around it. 

You remembered that day very clearly. You hadn’t even known Sephiroth was in Nibleheim. You didn’t know that he still remembered you. You didn’t know that you planted the seed for his inevitable mental break. 

Now, you were cursed with a daily reminder. His eyes would never leave you for as long as you lived. You assumed the same fate followed you into the Lifestream. 

The day of the Nibleheim Incident, you took off into hiding immediately. You couldn’t face the guilt that possessed you. You could still clearly hear the pain in Sephiroth’s cries as he stood over you. “You took everything from me!” It played in your mind on repeat. He died knowing that it was all your fault this happened. His last few words would be permanently ingrained into your brain. You slightly wished that he had just finished the job in Nibleheim... But you somewhat convinced yourself that that wasn’t his intention. 

Now that he was staring you in the face, you couldn’t believe that he intended for you to die in Nibleheim. He fully intended on you living with your sins and carrying that burden until the end of your time. 

It’s been months now since his first appearance. You remembered when you first saw him after Nibleheim many months ago. You were making your morning deliveries, casually walking around the Sector 5 slums. You approaching the small orphanage located at the top of the slums, ready to face the children when you suddenly stopped in your tracks. Your eyes had been focused on the ground as you walked, so when you saw black boots suddenly appear in your vision, a confused expression formed on your features. You slowly lifted your head to look up at the mysterious figure, only to let out a blood-curdling scream and fall back. 

In front of you stood the silver-haired SOLDIER, he wore a twisted and sickening smirk, his eyes held a glint of... Desire. His left hand tightened around the hilt of his blade as he stared down at you. Fear consumed you as you prepared to finally die, your eyes squeezing tight as your hands came to cover your head. 

When nothing happened, you slowly lifted your head again to see everyone around you staring at you in confusion. Sephiroth was gone as if he completely vanished into thin-air. The ladies working at the orphanage stared at you, fear evident in their eyes. They held the children back from approaching you, as if you were the one to be feared.

No one else had seen Sephiroth. 

You were the only one. 

You quickly got up, not bothering to dust yourself off or gather your things, before taking off to your small shack. Surely, it was part of your imagination. People have mentioned having hallucinations and stuff, maybe that’s what happened. You tried to think it through logically as you splashed cold water on your face. When you lifted your head again, you felt his presence in the back of the room. 

“Why are you here?” You asked, your voice shaking as you turned towards him. He was leaning against the wall casually, his smirk still present. Instead of answering you, he simply looked in your direction before walking further into the house. His gaze sent chills down your spine. What kind of desire is he holding inside? 

Life went on like that for months. Eventually, you were forced to grow used to his presence, no matter how oppressive it was. He would follow you anywhere, basically. He hardly said anything, if he did, it was probably something obscure and ominous. Eventually, you began to talk to him more, finding it unreasonably hard to cope with what life has become. You were never sure if he was listening or not, but deep down inside, you kind of hoped. 

You were never sure what Sephiroth was intending to get out of spending all of his time with you. It kind of made you anxious, knowing that you had some... Purpose to him, something that made you special from everyone else. Even through the hard times like the fall of Sector 7, he hardly ever left your side. 

There was one night where you felt particularly lonely. Sephiroth seemed to be gone, no where to be found. It was odd, even if you were his sworn enemy, you still found yourself concerned if he wasn’t around. That night, to somehow distract yourself, you wandered out into the Sector 5 slums, hoping to cope with the suffocating loneliness. That’s when you heard the news channel booming from the monitor at the center of the town. You approached the crowd quietly, feeling your heart drop at the announcements. 

President Shinra was dead. They claimed it was from Avalanche, but you knew better than that. From behind you, you heard his chilling voice. 

“You agree that he deserved it, don’t you?” Sephiroth asked, his voice low. It sounded like just a whisper in your ear. The question was odd... He wasn’t asking for your opinion, instead he was asking which side you were on. 

President Shinra did deserve it, though, didn’t he? While you would never wish death upon someone, it was undeniable how terrible of a man the President was. You could only respond with a weak nod of your head, feeling too repulsed to give him anything more. 

You moved to take off back to your home, only to feel the burning sensation of his gloved hand wrapped around your forearm. “The end is nigh... Who’s side will you be on?” He questioned. You forced yourself to look back at him. 

“What end?” You asked, your voice shaking as you spoke. Sephiroth didn’t give you an answer, instead he let go and slowly backed into the shadows, leaving you alone once again. 

What end was he talking about? ...End of the world? No, he doesn’t have that kind of power, does he? Honestly, you weren’t sure what Sephiroth was capable of in this form. He was powerful before he died, but what is he capable of now that he is dead?

You wouldn’t know his true power until it came to you in dreams. Since President Shinra’s death, and your odd conversation with Sephiroth that night, you had been having weird dreams. They weren’t the kind of weird that you forget in an instance of waking up, no... These dreams were visions. They were of what was to come. You saw visions of people you didn’t know dying, you saw a giant star in the sky slowly closing in on the Midgar tower, you saw visions of the Lifestream erupting from the ground... They had to have been connected, didn’t they? 

Sephiroth was no longer around for you to question him. It’s like he suddenly vanished, like he never existed after Nibleheim. Had you imagined it all up? It was getting hard to tell. You couldn’t bring yourself to search for him. You didn’t want to see him anymore. Truthfully, you wished you had never seen him in the first place. 

It seemed like months had passed since then. You were really keeping track of time anymore, honestly. Things began to change in the world around you, though. Above you, in the sky, a meteor pushed against the atmosphere of the world. Everyone else was terrified of it, but... You honestly couldn’t say that you were afraid of it anymore. After months of visions, you saw it coming. 

This was the end that Sephiroth was talking about, wasn’t it? 

The end of his torment.

The end of the human race.

The end of the fucking world. 

You hated him for it. There was no one that could stop him... He knew that, everyone seemed to know it except for the innocent lives. You heard the daily questions from bystanders.

“Why is this happening?”

“Are we all going to die?”

“There is nothing we can do to stop it, is there?”

Humanity’s downfall rested in the palms of a revenge-stricken God, and there was nothing that could be done about it.

By now, you had already accepted death. It was inevitable at this point. The fates of everyone were completely compromised at this point, death stared everyone in the face. It was only a matter of time until the Meteor made contact with the Earth. 

You remembered when the evacuation of Midgar began. Every single person was forced onto trains, cars, buses, whatever mode of transportation was available in poor attempts to escape fate. You watched from the window as the bus drove away, your eyes glued to the Meteor. Only a few days from then...

Those next few days were absolute torture. The entire world played a waiting game. There was really nothing to do to prepare for impact. Any preparations would be futile. In the end, there seemed to be a collective loss of morale. 

This was the end.

Just a few hours before the Meteor struck, you remembered hearing that familiar unsettling voice. “What a beautiful creation.” Sephiroth commented, his eyes fixated on the star. You looked up at him, your burning gaze quickly turning into one of shock. He stood next to you, blood decorating his face and suit. 

“What happened to you?” You asked softly, your brows furrowing slightly in concern. As much as you hated to admit it, you still cared for him. 

He shook his head slowly. “I...” He hesitated, seeming to return to his old self for just a moment. He slowly turned towards you, regaining that twisted look. “Will never be a memory.” He hissed, before completely dissipating in front of you. 

Below you, the ground began to shake. Your eyes shot up to the Meteor, expecting to see Midgar destroyed by now, but to your surprise, streams of green were fighting it off. There were screams coming from the people around you, they all cheered on the Lifestream. You couldn’t bring yourself to cheer though. This was fate, wasn’t it? You found yourself strangely conflicted. 

In the end, the Meteor ended up being destroyed before it could even touch Midgar. You watched as the Meteor disintegrated into small rocks. The population around you cheered unendingly, thanking the Gods for survival. You found yourself unsure. You survived, but at what cost? This battle with Sephiroth isn’t over... You knew that deep down. A quiet sigh left your lips as you turned away from the celebrating crowds, finding it hard to relate. 

This wasn’t the end, after all. 

[dipperdogrpg]

Cloud and Aerith theories/facts and not canon pairing essay

Ended up writing way more then intended lol and thought to share what’s  happening in the FF7 story between Cloud and Aerith. This is a response text I did on my youtube channel where I do commentary as a Cloti supporter. Instead I decided to move it here.

................................................................................................................................

Wahh lol I got carried away! I enjoyed but also felt bad for Cloud having to dance at the Honey Bee thanks to Aerith and her plans. Gosh darn it though Cloud dancing was great and I squealed along with Aerith, but a tinge of guilt hits when I see his troubled face haha. The thing people confuses here is that Cloud pushes himself to do it for Tifa because he was ready to walk away. Instead of busting through the mansion he sucked it up to ensure Tifa’s safety and chose to sneak inside as a woman.

Yes, I’m also very curious how Sephiroth's schemes will develop and how Aerith will try to stop him in Remake. She's much more focused on Sephiroth and stopping him compared in OG. In the other game Aerith originally joined to understand her Cetra abilities, but it feels pretty evident she has new mysterious powers as a Cetra in Remake and her relationship with Sephiroth is more personal. Also, I think Sephiroth and Aerith’s ancestry will have a bigger role and focus on Jenova and the Cetra's relationship/History. I plan to do an Aerith Theory and a character analysis in the future because she is, as the developers describe her, mysterious. 

It's obvious Sephiroth is harassing Cloud mentally then later physically through his clones. He is scheming something big and I look forward how Aerith will try to counter it because she is probably the only one capable to do it as a Cetra. One of the big schemes was removing the Arbiters of fate, but I think they both wanted that. Both Sephiroth and Aerith want to change something that doesn’t fit with the planet’s “destined” agenda.

In Max's commentary he mentioned Sephiroth was intentional with stalling Cloud running into Aerith, which caused a butterfly effect to ruin the events the planet has planned. While it tries to fix itself, the party are becoming aware of the Arbiters of Fate existence and sees it as a problem. At the end the team removes it when Sephiroth had some control in manipulating it. Its been mentioned the three figures you fight are a representation of the three sephiroth remnants from AC, Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo. So maybe we are getting hints of Sephiroth's abilities with the clones and the lifestream which could lead to some complicated trouble. We also get evidence Aerith is already more powerful than her Og counterpart by creating the portal to fight the Arbitors. When the heck did she learn that? 

My theory about removing the arbitors of fate are so the creators can have wiggle room for slight variation in scenes they've considered fixing in the past to improve a more consistent story and of course a new way for Sephiroth to exercise his goal along with Aerith because definitely getting hints those two know more then they should. My theory, they are from the future and traveled to the past using the Life stream and I’m using the OTWTS Novel as evidence when Aerith and Sephiroth talk about their time in the Life Stream. In there they gained new powers. Evidence- Sephiroth talks about it at the temple of ancients and that he gained new knowledge from there, so why not Aerith too. Either way the party will stop him at the end with Aerith's help because her role in the story is to save the world while Tifa's role is to save Cloud. That is a canon statement by one of the developers btw. Aerith and Tifa have their roles to play in FF7 that lead to its success.

Fun fact, but Cloud is not himself with Aerith. The developers did say Cloud truly is himself with Tifa. Why? because love. Now, the cool thing in Remake we are witnessing is Cloud learning how to make friends. A poor social skill set that may have contributed with his insecurity when he was a child. Wanting to join tifa and her friends but instead stayed away. To make himself feel better he makes up a story that he chose not to play with the other kids because he is special. In FF7 we get to witness Cloud learning these relationship skills, which helps develop his character to grow up until we get to the Lifestream sequence. It's after that he can stop pretending to be what he think is the ideal cool grown up version of himself and instead work on his real self with the new bonds of friendship he made who stuck around Cloud regardless of him pretending to act as someone else during their adventure. Cloud is still Cloud. Even with the messed up memories he had. He is not Zack. He is like a little boy picking up traits he likes from other people and mimic them. Very confused why people think he is Zack. He’s not. He is Cloud trying to be cool and does it poorly. That’s a canon thing.

Soldier Cloud is a facade, an illusion of himself he truly believed in until he sorted out his memories and realized "oh I'm not being myself and just mimicking what would Zack do. A friend I look up to"  It's been pointed out Cloud isn't actually grown up mentally and is still a child with insecurity about himself along with 5 years of trauma thanks to Hojo. Poor BABY! This whole copy/mimic theme gets reflected with the kids in sector 8 that mimic Cloud in remake over time during the side quests. Cloud is doing the same thing with Zack. Even Biggs hints that Cloud and the kids have a lot in common. I'm not crazy about Sector 8 but it shows best what Biggs told Cloud before the plate falls. And one more thing I want to add lol. When Cloud gets his red drink from Tifa there's a pause of him looking up and down at the drink and Tifa, before he says beautiful. That moment of pause he thinks to himself what he should do here and then came up with what he believes a confident person/Zack would do. Zack doesn't hesitate when giving a compliment. Confident people don't normally hesitate when they talk. It's why we get moments of Cloud saying some awkward lines when he doesn't give himself time to think and its one of the best moments to watch lol cuz I think that's when real cloud slips out trying to act cool or is at a lost for words. It's canon by the developers that Cloud isn't cool but tries to act it.

Another Fun fact. Most party members and NPCs in Remake mention and hint in game they see past the facade Cloud puts up. Tifa, Barret, Wedge, Biggs, Marle, Jessie and Aerith are some of the characters that see past it and either go along with it, poke fun at his attempt or tell him to his face they know he's pretending to be someone he's not. Basically seeing past the character he pretends to be and can see he has a good heart over the course they spend time with him. Even though Cloud tries to convince others and himself he could care less about them and is only in it for the money.

Now OG is really awkward with the romance honestly from my playthroughs so far. (Follow me on Youtube Dipperdog15 if you want to catch my FF7 commentary when I go live playing OG and Intergrade.) But with Remake it's very clear they are building up Aerith's love story with Zack so we can cry hard later. All of Zack scenes so far is related to Aerith. In Remake and OG Aerith display some of Zack's mannerisms too because people copy/mimic what they do to feel closer to them when in love. She continues to wear the bow Zack gave her and the pink dress in memory of Zack. She's said "gotta move forward not back" in remake and/or that Zack probably moved on with another girl in Og but what if what she said is a lie. We have Cloud as the unreliable narrator so why can't it also happen with Aerith who is likely lying to convince herself to move on to protect her heart. In fact a lot of characters in FF7 lie to themselves and we get character development when they stop and face the truth. It's one of the many themes in FF7 which I think I’ll deep dive into on my podcast channel in the future.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Zack is risking it all to make it to Midgar to see Aerith while risking Cloud's life on this mission, because he promised her. Promise is a big important theme in FF7. Cloud and Tifa are the canon couple and Zack and Aerith are the canon couple in FF7 because these pairings promised each other. I won't disagree about Cloud not caring about Aerith, but he cares for all his friends as said in AC. Also why make it possible the idea to bring Zack back? To create a love square? No. It’s have us the players focus instead the reunion of Aerith and Zack. That’s more attention grabbing because we never got to see it before and I’ll cry when they cry finally getting to be together. If they don’t I’ll cry some more. The developers are pushing for Zerith and their development in Remake/Intergrade. 

Another thing to notice, there are a lot of similarities between Jessie and Aerith's relationship when they are around Cloud. This directive choice, I believe, isn't a coincidence in order to water down scenes that are suppose to be special. It is instead not a “one of kind’ scene. They both get carried bridal style. They both tell cloud My Hero. They both invited Cloud over for dinner. They both ask about who Tifa is. They both got a pikachu face from Cloud when jessie optionally kissed Cloud on the cheek and Aerith wearing the optional red dress. They both have strong personalities that overwhelms Cloud and that is a developer canon statement. They both worked hard to befriend Cloud so he can open up and be nicer to them. Cloud treats them both the same.

Aerith’s relationship with Cloud in Remake is directing us to friendship. In the novel it mentioned she loves Cloud, in what way we don’t know. But we can say for a fact Cloud was living a lie in OG and his real self loves Tifa. In fact his other self loved Tifa too, you just have to catch the moment. Example, Barret teasing Cloud if he is eager to see his baby when you first see Tifa in OG. It happens when you run to the bar, but only if you catch Tifa on the porch before she goes inside. That’s means in both remake and OG, Barret knew something was up with those two. Another moment is the interest Cloud has with what Tifa almost said in the gondola. It was obviously sounding like some kind of confession from Tifa at Gold Saucer. When you get this date the story is more fluid when you arrive at the northern crater and Cloud says “only your opinion matters” to Tifa. Huge RED FLAG Cloud considers Tifa important to him. Meanwhile Aerith and Cloud’s relationship was open for interpretation that it may have been love in OG, but the scenes that helped implied it were removed in Remake. The point system was just for fun because it was a popular thing in the 90s. Plus the points for Tifa, Aerith, Barret and Yuffie’s are their feelings for Cloud not Cloud’s feelings towards them. Then you get rewarded learning a little about the character, but that’s it. FF7 remake/intergrade is not an otome game. Cloud ends with Tifa no matter what. Even if Aerith was to stay alive the Life Stream sequence will always be Cloud and Tifa’s moment to learn about their feelings for each other. The developers have said it is one of their favorite scenes, so they won’t change it. ok now back to Remake. 

Aerith in her resolution tells him not to love her and it’s not real. A deliberate choice of words I think she picked to shoo away the thought they could be a thing for both their sakes and us the players lol. Doing that made it weird now because Cloud doesn’t want to ruin what ever progress he has with Tifa in Remake. Plus Cloud only known her for a few days and if his actions are making her think there’s this growing romance between them he’s not going to encourage it. Those lines raised his awareness to watch himself I bet, so Tifa doesn’t get the wrong idea and you can see the distance he put between himself and Aerith later in game. Meanwhile in Intermission we see Cloud continues to make quick glances at Tifa whenever he can. We get it Cloud. You can’t keep your eyes off her. Ok getting off track. So Cloud and Aerith are instead just friends. Doing this allows Tifa to pick up the role to be there for Aerith. Which will help develop their friendship to be stronger as the two girls encourage each other. because I didn’t pick up on the two being best friends in OG but in Remake it’s very clear. He already looked uncomfortable when Aerith grabbed his arm back at the ghost station in front of Tifa. To include Cloud with this idea of him falling in love with another woman in front of Tifa would leave a poor taste in our mouths after spending several hours watching him develop several intimate moments with Tifa. That freaking hug scene and train roll you guys screamed sexual tension and love. Cloud is not that kind of guy who easily falls in love. His whole hero’s journey is because of Tifa and he makes sure to be nice to her while trying to get her attention. With anyone else he is quite hostile with new people and slowly learns to tolerate them before liking them.  Cloud treats Tifa differently in a special way. He’s been pinning for Tifa since they were kids and even imagined scenarios of Tifa noticing him. That’s right, not all of Cloud’s visions may be accurate. We may see more scenes of kid Cloud imagining moments with Tifa to confuse our perspective they are childhood friends. Again, Cloud is the unreliable narrator thanks to Jenova and 5 years of trauma.  Now back to Aerith. Their relationship definitely felt different when Cloud, Tifa and Barret rescued Aerith. In fact Aerith’s relationship with everyone is different in a better way. The relationship between Tifa and Barret are better fleshed out compared to OG Aerith and I’m for it. Very happy they removed the jail scene. It was upsetting watching Aerith flirt with Cloud while Tifa was stuck in the cell forced to listen and Aerith owing Cloud a date. Which changed also in Remake. Taking Aerith home and spending time her was the date as mentioned in game by Aerith herself. 

When I play through Chapter 8 and 9 I get this feeling Meta Aerith looks uncomfortable sticking to the OG lines of herself but does it anyways so the Arbiters of fate won’t come for her because she wants to hold on to her memories. Something she believes can help her friends I’m guessing. This is if my theory is right lol. What we have now is an Aerith that’s more mysterious than she was in OG. If this is OG Aerith making a return in Remake then I believe she was acting a lot, but then we see hiccups of her mentioning Cloud being a mercenary when he never mentioned it or acting like she knows Tifa for like forever before she actually met her in Remake. And then there was her knowing the plate would fall in sector 7. I’m betting the burden of knowing it was so hard to hide that Tifa picked up that she might be hiding something. 

We are near the end! 

Aerith’s resolution explored further. The resolution helps proves my theory this is OG Aerith that travel back to the past using the Lifestream to help her comrades in the fight against Sephiroth in Remake who also returned to the past. What’s also interesting about her resolution are the things she said are something you want to tell someone before you disappear. It was so sudden in OG that it sounds like Aerith wants to make up for it and also doesn’t want Cloud to suffer in guilt as he did in AC. Cherish the moment. Every one dies. 

Aerith knows the truth with Cloud and Tifa’s relationship hence her stopping herself interfering. Now maybe Aerith did fall in love with Cloud, and maybe while Cloud pretended to be someone else was loving the idea, which is a stretch cuz there are plenty debunking the idea which I can go over later. They both may have been using each other to fill the hurt in their heart not having their true loves instead. Zack and Tifa. In her resolution, Aerith has declared she will not pursue Cloud as she did in OG and we have evidence of that when they rescue her. there were so many opportunities for Cloud to be Aerith’s hero. Instead those moments were replaced with Tifa consoling her and rescuing her.

The Arbitors of Fate are gone, so I believe Aerith’s normal clips of her flirting with Cloud will get removed or changed as many have already. This allows the directors to remove lines that painted Aerith poorly some moments and better her relationship with the team too. Aerith will still have flaws like everyone does. No one is perfect and I’m perfectly fine with that.

Crap if I keep going this will turn into a podcast in writing I think lol. Anywho, yes the arbiters of fate were eliminated, who knows if it's permanent, but as the developers have repeated, FF7 story will remain the same at heart. Iconic moments will remain. If it is not then that's a risky move to say to fans. Aerith will die to protect her loved ones and the planet and will reunite at the church in spirit with Zack perhaps. She can’t escape her role as the last living Cetra. That is her truth which she denied when she was little as shown in a flashback with kid Aerith. The other theme in FF7 is trying to move forward after a loss. Which extends to Advent Children which some of the team members has to deal with survival guilt. Some fans are getting their hopes up that Aerith will live. The developers are using Biggs and Jessie’s possible surviving scenes to prove lives lost can live in Remake. I think they may die later though if that is their fate, but we never actually saw them die in OG either. It was just implied. This is a set up so Aerith’s death scene can be impactful again in Remake, so we can cry again.

This was a lot and little bit everywhere, but I hope you enjoyed it. You can follow me on youtube in the link below where I invite other FF7 fans to talk about the story and Cloud and Tifa’s relationship Or me doing my own Cloud and Tifa commentary and Remake talk while I play the game. Thanks for reading! Hope you check out my channel and sub to check out my videos when convenient for you. Thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/c/Dipperdog15/featured

[altocat]

I saw you guys talking about Seph’s bit of introspection about making conscious decisions and I wanted to offer the Japanese insight again because the English makes everything so cryptic and confusing lol. I think this is why everyone is hesitating to dive in, but translation stuff may aid us.

(I’m glad you guys appreciate these btw! Happy to help!)

Here is roughly the discussion in Japanese after Matt explains that a large percentage of decisions are unconsciously made. (He is referencing a legitimate scientific study).

Seph replies to Matt: “Even if the unconscious is apart of you, that means you can’t take responsibility for what you do.”

So, he acknowledges the obvious, which is that we can’t really have free will if all of our decisions are unconscious.

Then he basically says: “I intend to make my own decisions/I have my own will.”

He says this as something he wants/intends/will do…not something he necessarily does yet. That’s why the English is confusing. He does acknowledge that his will is his own, but not necessarily that he is “conscious of every decision he makes.”

He is saying “I will do this” and it almost feels as though he is telling himself that.

Lucia comments that such a thing would be difficult to do as a solider and Matt says that “Sephiroth could probably do it.”

So yes, this was a relevant moment for sure.

—

Now, we could dive in and analyze this endlessly, bringing up foreshadowing for everything from Crisis Core to Nibelheim to Jenova lol, but within the immediate context, it feels more like a simple bit of implication about what is to come in the First Soldier.

Seph is being influenced by his new team, specifically Glenn, in almost every scene we have seen with them so far. He is learning to socialize and laugh and have fun, maybe to learn how to be compassionate in battle, how to lighten up, not be so serious, etc..

He was very strict and stern in this Harvest Story at the start, but amusingly enough, this comment he made about making his own decisions came directly after this fun adventure with Glenn that culminated with them almost “slacking off” and going to get food at the festival.

An added dash of irony is that he says this thing about making conscious decisions after being “unconsciously influenced” a little bit by Glenn on the other side of the portal. I say “unconsciously” because neither of them can remember what happened, but it still clearly affected them.

It was a silly Halloween tale yes, but it showed us a little more about how Seph is learning to exercise his own will and not be so bound by the rules. If this continues, then we will likely be led to that Rosen scene where a choice is presented to Sephiroth and for once, he will make a decision on his own accord, going against everything he was raised to do.

“Sephiroth could probably do it” could have been further foreshadowing. He is going to decide something in the future and it will shape the story.

Now the question remains:

How will that end?

I’m afraid I don’t have high hopes for this all ending in sunshine and rainbows lol.

Random Bonus: Seph says, “I wish I could have tried the pumpkin soup” after Glenn is gone in the Japanese and the poor guy sounds so wistful. Please give him another chance Square!

There's SO many ways this could be foreshadowing things...I really wouldn't know where to start.

If I HAD to guess, it's probably in relation to the choice Rosen was talking about in the trailer. I'm thinking Sephiroth will make a conscious decision...only for it to backfire and haunt him forever, as well as influences why he continues to avoid fighting Angeal and Genesis in CC. It would tie in well with him calling Genesis at the beginning, probably making the conscious decision again to keep letting him off in the future.

[rainbowcarousels]

I don't know how interesting this is going to be but I started to answer a comment on the latest JBSWM from @zanahoriabaila and realised I actually kind of want to talk more depth about the subject so I'm going to post it up here. Between talking a little about Genesis especially on twitter and briefly talking a couple of chapters ago about Sephiroth, it's kind of all been ruminating into something meta that borders on a directors commentary.

Again, how come your Genesis always spews all the stuff I think?

This is absolutely something I do with my version of Genesis on the regular and there's a few different reasons why he’s my character of choice for uncomfortable examinations of stuff.

 Cut for discussion of fic, canon, trauma and interrelationships with everyone!

The first reason is the Eve symbolism that comes with Genesis as a character. There's a decent bit of it with Genesis (much like Aerith) when you consider his name, his limit break, his carrying around of the forbidden fruit and the look of the Goddess statue and in CC canon, he is the first person to tell Sephiroth about what Jenova is. As such, giving a lot of the harder hitting commentary to Genesis feels natural because he is good at weaponising knowledge.

It also makes more sense out of AGS to give it to him because of each of their interactions with how knowledge effects them. The revelation of the Jenova Project in general (I hope!) illustrated this pretty well in that Angeal takes in knowledge and then thinks about what he should say or do or feel about it and it impacts it greatly. Sephiroth takes in the knowledge and tries to analyse and categorise because exploring how he feels emotionally about something is really difficult for him and unless it's pertinent, he just doesn't address it in terms of how to feel about it. Genesis in contrast to both goes instantly to what he is feeling in the moment and it fuels his decisions and choices.

Angeal's issue comes when what he should feel and what he does feel are so at odds that he can't reasonably justify how he feels and he's been going through a lot of that since he doesn't want to think ill of his mother, he does not want to consider that his father might have lied to him and he absolutely does not want to think about Hollander at all. His sense of honour is wrapped up in family, in the idea that he pulled himself up to get where he is with hard work and determination and that he does make a positive difference and he's just...completely lost right now emotionally because he can't reconcile his feelings with what he thinks he should feel.

Sephiroth's comes when something is emotive and he can't pick it apart and make sense of it through physical and observable changes. I think this probably comes from spending his childhood as a lab specimen so he knows how to report things that are observable and that emotions are too subjective so he doesn't include them. Then getting thrust into war, he also learns to describe himself by a physical status report. Zack gives him one based on how he is physically because he knows this is how Sephiroth is. The problem for him and the reason he is as noted by the same comment so detached is because he just doesn't really process anything emotional in any significant way, which is why as noted in one of my much earlier chapters, he struggles with saying 'I love you' because it's pure emotion and he tries to show it in his own way instead.  

Then you have Genesis who runs on his emotions and experiences like they're fuel. There's a throwaway line in Don't You Know My Name about how Genesis doesn't so much like or dislike things as he dismisses or obsesses over them and because of that, he has the nastiest tunnel vision and comes across as self centred. He likes to write his own narrative in a way that makes sense to him based on what information he has and how he feels about it. There's a line in the song from JBSWM's title song that says 'judgment made can never bend' and I think this is part of Genesis struggling more with Zack's inclusion into their relationship with Cloud because he formed his own opinions on Cloud and Zack is Angeal's little puppy he's been hearing about for years. It's hard to shift perspectives for him.

Zack and Cloud have their own relationships with truth and feelings but Gast is history for AGS. So onto Gast, because that the subject being discussed in the chapter. It's not something new, if I go by my own timeline, Genesis and Angeal have known since they were 15 about a decent chunk of what happened as Sephiroth's background and Angeal comes down hard on the 'respect what Sephiroth feels even if it's not entirely accurate because it's important to him' side and Genesis comes down on the 'This was bullshit and Sephiroth needs to know it was bullshit regardless of how attached he is to the memory of Gast because he needs to deal with it'.

Zack and Cloud are just forming their opinions and it'll happen over a few chapters, but Zack is far more emotion based but he also has rose coloured glasses and if there is an upside, he will find it. Cloud, growing up feeling angry and isolated and idolising Sephiroth, kind of has a similar way of coping as him in that he has this idea he can't be openly emotional or vulnerable because he'll get hurt but he also isn't about to pull any punches either. It should make for interesting interaction hopefully.

I think Sephiroth is more knowledgeable than he realises in that he quickly guesses from Genesis being willing to share that they are in the 'experimented on parents' club that this is colouring some of his interaction here. He backs down earlier when the subject comes up, not because he thinks he's wrong but he's not pushing that hard because as much as it comes from a place where he's sad and angry that this terrible thing happened to someone he loves, he can rationalise backing down because his feelings are second hand. Except now they're not. While Angeal and Sephiroth can look at their parents to some degree and assign some kind of blame (and Cloud can from being victimised), he can't because he doesn't know who his parents are or what the circumstances were but Gast was the head of the department when this crap went down so he is a prime target for someone to be furious at.  

These guys spent their teenage years building coping mechanisms based on battlefield experience, it's probably not a surprise Sephiroth is practical and tries to funnel it into something productive, Angeal tries to find the honourable method of dealing with it in the way he's supposed to and Genesis just wants someone, anyone appropriate to unleash all of that emotion on. I'd also argue that Zack tries to apply it to being the best hero he can be even though he was doing a lot of pretty unhero-like things and Cloud was cannon fodder, it's no surprise his sense of worth is in the toilet and he can't really grasp the idea of being special.

Someone described JBSWM as five broken people trying to make each other whole and I don't think it's exactly right, but it is close. It's five people trying to figure out a way to live with a shit ton of trauma and a lot of it is trauma they're complicit in which is really difficult to work through given all time and resources let alone trying to deal with Shinra at the same time. 

This kind of brings me back to why Genesis is often the pushing person in the relationship and why he's not always right to do it.

As horrible as the Project G revelations are, it's not the same as growing up in the way Sephiroth (and in some ways, Aerith) did and he has the coping mechanisms he has for good reasons. He needs to have this idea of Gast as this good person who tried to be good to him but died because the alternative is Gast wandered off the moment he wasn't as interesting anymore and left him (in JBSWM's timeline at around the age of 4) to try and survive it by himself. He's already lost this perfect idea of a mother by having the 'L' put there and all SOLDIERs having JENOVA on their files and he's kind of desperately clinging onto something good because he hasn't really thought about what a lot of it would look like to someone coming in now until Cloud started to ask about it and had enough first hand experience to know it was really messed up. He can justify it as Gast was the better scientist, the better man, the better influence for him but if you start taking that away, it puts him in the position of being victimised and abused and that's all there is and I don't think he knows how to even begin to process that. As @aimeelouart pointed out, if he thinks about it or talks about it with any perspective, he would have to acknowledge he is traumatised and a large part of his identity has been built on his own invincibility. How can he be traumatised if that’s so?

The flipside of it being that I don't think any of them understood fully in a conscious way what happened with Sephiroth’s childhood until they saw it up close and personal with Cloud and even if it's coming from Genesis (dude is loud), Angeal is also pissed off and furious that it's just as bad as they thought it might be but could never be sure because they've only ever seen the aftermath and he does not talk about it. Zack got it all in one, he heard about it and saw it and is trying to deal with that but for Genesis and Angeal, it's festered for a decade and since no one save for maybe Zack has ever met a single healthy coping mechanism, it goes out as Angeal being cautious and letting Sephiroth set his own pace and Genesis going no, this is important, you have to confront this because if it hurts them from just caring about him and realising how bad it was, if Sephiroth some day realises how awful it was, he's going to just...shatter or explode and they'll lose him and even if he struggles to express it sometimes, he does love him dearly and like with Cloud, he wants him to figure out what will make him happy and it doesn’t seem like he’ll feel happy until he can stop blocking out what he’s feeling on instinct as some leftover coping mechanism. Cloud having to deal with his own lab trauma just brings it to the forefront and Genesis is not wasting the opportunity.

The thing is I don't think he's wrong about it because I think Alien Demi-god Sephiroth and Sane Sephiroth are two sides of the exact same person. There's hints of it here and there, but I think one of the biggest ones is he's very possessive and it took Hojo crossing the line and almost killing Cloud when he was beginning to grow attached to him to get him to move out of his holding pattern. In a way, this can also be traced all the way back to Gast and the idea of his mother because it's this almost childlike view that when he's attached to someone, they leave and it hurts so the obvious answer is make it so they can't leave or in the case of canon, try to push them to come back. I genuinely do not think Jenova knew what they were getting themselves into with him because they were like 'hey I could be your mom' and got absolutely swallowed by someone who was hurting, desperate for connection and just So Fucking Done with all of it until his will overrode theirs and he was never, ever going to be alone again because the entire planet would be reborn as part of him. 

Not the direction I'm going with JBSWM, they have some things they need to work on with each other but they are together and leaving Shinra was as close to a statement of commitment as you can get. With Midgar behind them and a chunk of their identity and dreams left with it, trying to face those uncomfortable truths will be hard for everyone and as much as Genesis puts it out there, he’ll struggle with his own too because if they have to deal with their shit, so does he. 

[iaintyourbro]

Imo Tifa is Cloud’s real catalyst. Some people say it’s Aerith... yeah sure... she is in some way, but only on soldier Cloud in OG. Like, in the first place he wanted to be someone strong hence why he became soldier, cuz of Tifa. She saved & brought real Cloud back in the lifestream. She vented and knocked some sense into him to bring him out of his misery. Why does everybody sleeps on Tifa’s efforts like 🤷🏻‍♀️

Hey anon.

I honestly have a very difficult time comprehending it myself. Generally when I play these games the first time, I take them at face value. I think most people do that. From a logical standpoint, the first time a person plays OG, they probably do think that Aerith is meant to be the love interest because she’s pink and cute and a white mage type of character. 

This is the fun thing with stereotypes... Whether or not there’s any romantic interaction between Cloud and Aerith, people automatically assumed the moment he wakes up in that church that she’s the love interest. I think this was also done on purpose to further the whole illusion thing. It used people’s preconceived ideas about romance against them.

In Remake, they make it much more obvious that Cloud has an issue with his memories and personality, and that his subconscious is heavily attached to Tifa. He stares at her constantly.  

Aerith then dies. In real life we do not continue to pursue dead people that we knew for a very short amount of time. That seems... ridiculous. They also don’t really dwell on it in game. After her death, she’s not mentioned again until they’re trying to figure out what to do with meteor. This is well past her death. 

You first go snowboarding and through all of the Icicle Area, then up to the Northern Crater where you’re slammed with the line from Cloud that Tifa’s opinion is the only one that matters to him, then Cloud falls into the Lifestream. Then we get Tifa who is very upset about everything, almost gets executed, has to slap a bitch a few times, gets back on the Highwind, and her number one priority is to save Cloud. You get him back and go on some more Huge Materia missions, can do side quests, and then when you actually start to go down the what to do with Meteor path, is when she’s brought up because of Holy. 

But for the whole Lifestream thing...

Tifa is mostly selfless throughout the game. She puts others before herself constantly. I honestly thought her turning to what she felt and what she wanted was a good character building moment. I think her one desire to find Cloud was the most selfish thing she did during the entire game, and it was about her feelings. And about Cloud. She knew nobody else was going to look for Cloud - she didn’t want him alone. 

When they do find him, she’s done. She’s staying there no matter what. At this point I think she’s already lost everything else, and finding Cloud somewhat alive, the last thing she really has from her past, she’s not letting it go. She sticks by him. She helps him find himself. She continues to stick by him. 

She almost dies sticking by him. She saves him from himself by helping him rebuild who he truly is. All is revealed, it’s obvious he has feelings for her that go way back, and that’s that. At this point, I think most people who played the game with no preconceived ideas realize what’s mostly going on. I do think FFVII requires multiple playthroughs to get everything, but the jist of things is there. 

So most people don’t question this - Cloud loves Tifa, okay - let’s mosey. 

The ending I think is where people start to argue, even though it’s not supposed to be romantic, I don’t think. He says the line “I think I can meet her there” which people take as he’s going to meet Aerith there. Tifa doesn’t react badly to this. This is after the Lifestrem, after the Highwind, and then suddenly he’s just gonna drop her? No. This is about them realizing they’re probably going to die. 

Some people couldn’t accept she died, they can’t accept what happens after that, so they shit on Tifa. They know she’s the catalyst for him, she’s the reason he wanted to join SOLDIER (he tells us this himself), she’s the reason he finally snapped at Sephiroth in Nibelheim (after everything else), she’s the reason he comes out of his first bout of severe mako poisoning, and ultimately she’s the reason he survives the second bout. 

After all the shit that happened, after almost killing their friend twice, ultimately causing Meteor to get summoned, after it all, she still stuck by him.

Then we get AC. Now AC is interesting because people think Cloud acted like he did in AC the entire two years after FFVII ends. He doesn’t. He’s happy - the devs came out and made sure people knew that he was very happy with Tifa and the children. He runs from Tifa for a week or two. People think he took off for months. He runs off due to getting Geostigma, and can’t bear to have Tifa and the children watch him die. He knows what happens to Tifa when people close to her die - she starts doing really stupid, drastic things. So you have Denzel dying already and now Cloud has the same problem. He ran, but it wasn’t to go find Aerith or get away from Tifa because he didn’t love her - he ran because he did love her, and in his mind.. well... he couldn’t deal with the fact that he was going to ultimately hurt her. Badly. 

Cloud realizing Tifa is injured and knocked out in the church shows how much he cares about her. The second Tifa that he yells is fully of emotion. Geostigma also acts up when he has high anxiety or an emotional event. Right after this, he has a major Geostigma episode and passes out. You can’t say he doesn’t care - deeply - about Tifa. He’s scared out of his mind here. He thinks she’s going to die. And he blames himself because she came to the church looking for him.

Cloud sees Tifa is alive in the simulation here.

After he thinks she dies.

A lot of people think that Tifa is attached to Cloud and useless without him, but I think it’s the other way around. Tifa could live a normal life without Cloud. Cloud wouldn’t be able to live a normal life without Tifa with the story of the game. You can’t say what if he didn’t get experimented on, because he does get experimented on, he’s injected with Jenova cells, and has severe mako poisoning. Which she can at least get him out of to function. Tifa was literally created for Cloud so he actually has a shot at life and doesn’t die in the gutter of the Sector 7 train station.

FFVII had a main theme of life and death and learning to live after death.

And that learning to live wasn’t just about Cloud.

It was about Barret who lost his wife, hometown, and ultimately ends up losing his best friend when he thinks he found him. He deals with his loses by channeling his passion for revenge. He vows to care for Dyne’s daughter. He does blame himself partially for the entire thing even happening, since he agreed with Shinra, but ultimately doesn’t let it consume him. He goes back during AC to help rebuilt Corel to make amends.

Tifa also learns to live after heavy loss. Tifa loses her mother as a young child. Her entire hometown is burned down, her father killed, she’s almost killed. In both cases of her parent’s death, she makes very irrational decisions to cope with it. She thinks going up Mt Nibel will allow her to see her mother. She thinks she can take on Sephiroth after he kills her father. She also does this after she thinks Cloud dies. She decides she can go to a brothel and question a crime lord to give her info... Not a good choice. I’m sure at this point, most of the folks reading this have had to deal with somebody they loved dying. The first few days really is bizarre. You’re in a daze. Your decision making skills are shit. You’re tired. Tifa ignores the fact that she’s in a daze and makes decisions anyway to cope with it. But she lives. She rebuilds her life in Midgar, she has a job, has a place to live, and then decides to go the Barret route and get revenge.

Vincent is the most similar to Cloud in how he deals with loss and guilt. He sleeps. For 20 years. Vincent goes from Turk Viincent to Eternal Sin Vincent. He blames himself for all that happened to Lucretcia. He’s alone. Sleeping. For 20 years. This probably would be a good example of what would have happened to Cloud if Tifa wasn’t there. He would have spiraled in to guilt and - ultimately - would have died. Vincent couldn’t die, so sleep it was.

As for Tifa and Cloud, specifically. Cloud probably wouldn’t have joined the military if Tifa never fell down Mt. Nibel. He probably would have stayed in Nibelheim (or followed her wherever she went, he did have it pretty bad for her) and then they all would have perished. It’s to be assumed that Sephiroth would have still come to Nibelheim and burned it down. Cloud and Tifa had nothing to do with him doing that. All of the catalysts for that were from before those two were even born, so nothing was going to stop that. 

Without Tifa, Cloud probably would have died at the Sector 7 train station. I think the flashback with Zack in the OG (even though its optional) is to show how bad of shape he was in. The guards say to leave him because he’s pretty much done for. Somehow he does make it to Midgar, but I don’t think he would have lasted much longer. Zack got him 90% of the way back. Tifa did the rest and ultimately brought him back to “human status” even though it wasn’t really him at this point. 

People start to shit on Tifa because she doesn’t come out and tell Cloud right away that somethings wrong with him. She doesn’t correct him about the flashback in Kalm. She keeps it going. The thing is, she admits this was wrong. That it’s a character flaw. Literally right after Cloud falls in to the Lifestream after giving Sephiroth the Black Materia, she tells the story of finding Cloud at the Sector 7 train station, and how she’s always been this way... She’s non-confrontational. She didn’t want to upset him. I think she thought that something bad really would have happened to him. 

And ultimately, she saves him again. 

Nobody else could have helped Cloud rebuild himself. Nobody.

Tifa is the only person in the world at this point that knew Cloud prior to the events of the Nibelheim Incident. She is the only one that could guide him. She’s one of the only survivors from the Nibelheim incident. Nobody else could have done it. Cloud’s subconscious is almost entirely made up of things about Tifa. The Promise, Tifa’s mother’s death and the Mt. Nibel incident, the reactor and how he hid from her because he was ashamed he didn’t make First Class SOLDIER. Every piece of his subconscious has to do with Tifa somehow. 

[umbral-stigmata-unbound]

Curious Anon Meme | Always Open

Anonymous asked:  1.) Sephiroth: What is one thing you want to say to Lucrecia? If nothing at all, what about JENOVA?

// Hi anon! I’m going to take this first one as a chance to say sorry for the wait!! And also, going to do these individually and obviously in characters from how the questions were asked. Thank you for your patience, sorry it took my so long to get to this awesome curious questions for each of my muses, they made me very happy to see!! And an extra note, I’m writing this within a scenario of if Sephiroth returned/found a different path after certain events, and is in the midst of redemption/recovery so, still a bit twisted and hurt and such, but trying to let go of his toxic insanity. Prime mama issues time. //

He raised his gaze to the question, eyes narrowing, brows pulling together in a tug of flesh and tension that reflected the absolute whirlwind those two names spoken brought about, especially together. He had seen them both, and it seems oh so ironic how similar both the states he’d found them in had been.

Jenova, bound in cryo tube, drowning in mako, looking alive and dead all at once. And Lucrecia, many years later, when he finally allowed himself to learn her story...and found her in that crystal cave, locked away in her own beautiful, crystalline cell. Both of them, bound, speechless, never truly seeing him, and never truly speaking or reaching out. There were echoes from Lucrecia, and there was the seething toxins from Jenova.

But they were gone. They would’ve never been in his reach.

Finally, he blinks and considers his words, before finally speaking. “Jenova... You are a part of me that I cannot deny, but that I will never let drive me ever again. You are a mother to me, whether you wished it or it was forced from those egotistical bastards in lab coats. But I will not be your monster spawn any longer.”

“...And for Lucrecia... I don’t know what you would have been, I’ve only heard what you were. You were nothing to me for years. I never knew you existed. And now...? You are the woman who made me, not for love, but for personal interest. Perhaps that’s not a crime, but had I had a choice, perhaps I never would’ve existed. If you were given a chance, would you have loved me? Or would you have used me, too? That is what you’ve left me with.... Maybe you could have loved. But that will never be known. Instead, you left me. And it is only now I’ve found myself. Perhaps one day you will move on as well.”