#the night of the black knives

[sellensand]

The truth about the Golden Lineage

Ok sooo I've just had a MASSIVE realization about Godfrey's children with Marika and I need to share it with the Elden Ring lore community. I have no idea if anyone has already put this theory forward, but as soon as it crossed my mind I knew I had to write it down before I forgot about it.

ELDEN RING SPOILERS BELOW.

I had always kind of assumed that Godwyn the Golden was Godfrey and Marika's firstborn child. This is not stated anywhere though, it was no more than an assumption on my behalf. So I began to wonder... what if the omen twins were actually older than Godwyn? What if they were Marika's first children with Godfrey? The Crucible predates the Golden Age of the Erdtree after all...

Once again, I had always assumed that Morgott and Mohg were thrown into the sewers of Leyndell as soon as they were born, which doesn't really make any sense considering:

- They are both quite well-spoken. They don't act like they were brought up by giant slugs and rats with no contact with the outside world. They are not like the feral omens we fight in the sewers.

- They had to use special shackles in order to keep them down there. As if... they would try to escape. To go back home. Someone had to make sure they never got out.

- They brought at least one doll with them. Newborn babies don't play with dolls, children do.

- Godfrey's words towards Morgott ("It's been a long while...") and the way he holds his son's dead body imply they once knew each other. They once had some kind of relationship. And I'm inclined to believe that Morgott remembers and loves his father too: as SmoughTown points out in his latest video, the magic seal from which Godfrey's golden ghost appears is the exact same Crucible seal that Morgott uses when he "teleports". Morgott created a spectral protector of the Erdtree in the image of his father (I'm about to cry).

So, if Mo & Mo once lived in the surface, why were they shunned? Well, here comes the crazy part. Once upon a time, in the Age of the Crucible, horns, scales, wings and other beastly parts were considered sacred, divine. They were the manifestation of the power of the Tree, from which all life begins, where all life is blended together. With Godfrey being a man from the Age of the Crucible (his knights are the Crucible Knights), it is possible that his first children with Marika, Mo & Mo, were actually revered when they were born.

However, at some point, something motivated Marika to change the dogma. The conquest of the Mountaintops of the Giants gave way to the Golden Age of the Erdtree. All things Crucible were suddenly frown upon. Lord Godfrey and his warriors were exiled from the Lands Between. And the omen twins had to be forsaken.

LUCKILY the royal couple had produced another child, one more in line with the religious ideals of the new age: Godwyn, a perfectly built golden boy, without any Crucible in him. A strikingly handsome prince, with a gorgeous set of long, androginous, golden hair, who we've only seen wearing a beautifully embroidered skirt. His looks and his fashion sense always reminded me of a certain red-headed champion of the Golden Age of the Erdtree...

Has anyone else noticed that the items related to the Prince of Death require both Faith and Intelligence? I'm talking about the Prince of Death's Staff (allegedly made out of a fragment of Godwyn's corpse) and all of the Death sorceries (which said staff boosts). You know which other items also require both of those stats, right? Well, as far as I know, only Rykard's Magma sorceries and the Golden Order incantations need both Fai and Int to be used. And the Sword of Night and Flame, yes, a Carian heirloom hidden in their Manor.

HUH. I wonder what the Carian royal family and Golden Order Fundamentalism have in common... OH, I KNOW. They are both connected to Radagon, the champion who aspired to be complete by dominating both sorceries and incantations.

My point is... What if Godwyn is not Godfrey's? What if he's Radagon's? What if he was Marika's first attempt at having descendants by herself? She was devastated by Godwyn's death because he was her favorite, her perfect golden boy, a personification of the Golden Order and a living proof that she was the One True God.

Now let's have some fun with this theory. We all know about Miquella's obsession with Godwyn ("O brother, lord brother..."). Some have speculated that the statue of the older figure embracing young Miquella and Malenia in Loretta's arena in the Haligtree might be Godwyn, because it doesn't sport Marika/Radagon's signature braid and the asset is apparently flat-chested (according to Vaati's Miquella Lore video).

Did either Miquella or Godwyn know the truth? Was Godwyn particularly protective of the Empyrean twins because they were more than just his half-siblings? I honestly don't know, buy it's not hard to imagine what they felt after their older brother's murder...

I obviously don't have all the answers, but if all of the above was true, it would mean that the whole Golden Lineage is built on a lie, because the firstborn male heir of Godfrey was not only not the firstborn at all, but he was also not Godfrey's! This would be so GRRM it's insane! Even Godrick's pride and his fondness of Lion iconography becomes all the more ridiculous!

Am I going too far with this? Please let me know if I'm losing my mind over this game.

(Oh and link me to any similar theories if you know of any, because I can't be the only one crazy enough to have thought about this).

[winter2468]

Fia casually saying that Rogier likes to talk about the Black Knife plot while 'abed' is sending me. Even if they aren't hooking up and it's just her regular deathbed companion stuff, the mental image of Fia and Rogier cuddling up only for Rogier to say, "You know what I'm thinking about right now? That famously brutal political assassination." and Fia doesn't even find it weird

[lassairfhina]

When your brothers' gay drama is so cringe that you have no other choice but to kill your physical body from embarrassment and fuck off to the Moon.

[epiclad]

The Royal House of Caria

[sausage-rolll]

I always find it particularly funny when people say that Ranni is just manipulating the player and that she’s using them as a means to a much more nefarious secret end, because if you actually pay attention to the game and character then one thing becomes abundantly clear.

Ranni literally cannot lie to save her life.

No seriously, she’s a cunning mastermind but she is a fucking terrible liar. When a random tarnished comes looking for her and accuses her of the assassination of Godwyn, she just goes “yeah? And what of it?” as if she’s not admitting to being the one behind the biggest act of heresy in known history. That's not something you should just say to people, least of all a tarnished!

You get her alone with you and within seconds she’s rambling about her plan, her past, her family, her friends that she adores with all of her heart, how you’re actually a lot like them, nevermind forget that last part please-

Sorry to burst the bubble of all the nihilist theorists out there that really want age of stars to secretly be a bad ending but if Ranni was planning anything nefarious with her godhood then I’m willing to bet that she wouldn’t be able to keep quiet about it until the end of her questline.

[velvet-apricots]

Night of the Black Knives

[asklesbianonceler]

I'd like to pose some theories and observations about The Night of Black Knives

There's something extremely specific about the black knives and it's that they cannot be seen while wearing their cloaks unless illuminated by the Sentry's Torch, an item that was not held in the lands between until after Godwyn's death, and yet, here it is. Not just an average wooden torch, a custom torch, in the hand of a black knife, specifically illuminating her face. She is showing her face to Godwyn so he knows who killed him. She wants him to see her, a woman with long blonde hair.

It was no mistake it was Godwyn and he was not just the best choice. It was personal.

What else do we know of the black knives? They had close ties to Marika herself and were all Numen just like her.

We now know Godwyn was not her first son and his death was merely a means to an end. Would she be able to sacrifice a child forced upon her by the golden order? A child who in the eyes of the order was perfect? I think so. If it gave her a good enough excuse to shatter the Elden Ring which she was still punished for.

Maliketh's great rune says Marika only needed him to seal away destined death, yet she betrayed him. Who else would have been able to get close to him?

Ranni and Marika wanted the same thing. It was all set up. There is a reason Ranni cradles Marikas head in the age of stars ending before putting it back on Marikas body.

Marikas body also vanishes in Rannis. It isn't being taken over by the Elden ring again. Ranni sets her free. she didn't have to put the head back on.

Yes, I can tie Melina into all this. Just ask.

[the-wildfire-wisp]

🌙 A nefarious proposition... 🔪

[talos-stims]

leftover stims

x | x | x

x | x | x

x | x | x

[lightlessentwine]

(i have elaborate lore rants about elden ring on my blog)

[moonscradle]

crack idea, the hornsent grandam places a curse upon marika and all born from her, we see such curse take effect in miquella and malenia, the omen twins mohg and morgott. curses in elden ring are usually made by people who have been wronged in one way or the other.

so my crack theory is this, what if godwyn had already been infected with the death blight long before his 'death' (in quote because he dies in soul but not body) at the hands of the black knifes? one thing to note is that we never really see any shot of him from the waist down (correct me if i'm wrong). the only shots i've seen of godwyn are these two-

me pointing out the obvious but see how we can't really make our his legs etc. we see this again after rogier is infected with the death blight, he's covered from the waist down and is dying (a slow death)-

rogier states that due to his affliction he is unable to fight i.e his fighting days are behind him. piggybacking off this, i think it can be used as argument as to why godwyn didn't bother fighting against his assassins -

you've got a legendary figure his defeating and befriending of the ancient dragons is one that is well known, not only that but being the son of godfrey i guess it is to be expected that he's a skilled enough fighter. alas, he still falls to the black knife assassins.

the issue with this though is that it seems death blight is a thing that spawned from godwyn's corpse after his incomplete death so....yeah.

thanks for reading this hot mess 💀

[tarnishedinquirer]

Beneath Stormveil

Here the damage seemed the worst. In places, the walls were red and raw, almost as if they were bleeding. I continued down and reached a room with a very interesting painting.

It was Stormhill, before Stormveil Castle was ever built. The world looked so much wilder and more vibrant back then. The colors were deep blacks and rich greens, not the washed-out greys and pale greens of current Limgrave. The place that would once become the Chapel of Anticipation was part of the mainland, separated by a waterfall rather than a chasm. There's no trace of the black stone pillars that underlay the entire land. The Stormfoot Catacombs are open, with no door. And, while something was gleaming gold, it sure didn't look like the Erdtree.

Yet the Divine Tower and bridge were already there, and already so ancient the bridge had started to crumble. Curious.

After examining the painting as much as I could, I unlocked the door back to the Site of Grace and continued downward.

This was by far the oldest and most neglected portion of the castle. It's unlikely it would get any light except at high noon. The only creatures down here were vermin. Giant bats and rats, the scavengers and dwellers in the dark.

Now that I was down here, it became clear that this was a dumping ground for the castle above. Specifically, it seemed that all the statues removed in the various ideological purges were just shoved into the abyss.

There's the expected statues of women holding ewers or missing their hands, but there's a few statues that stand out to me. They're almost completely buried, so possibly the oldest statues ever dumped down here, and depict hooded figures either holding a book or holding a dagger. Unfortunately, I don't have any context to interpret them. Maybe I'll find some more later.

A scarab almost misses my notice, were it not for the sound they make. I track it down and it's carrying an unusual Sorcery called Rancorcall.

I say it's unusual because using it would require almost as much faith as intellect. That unnerved me a little. Sorcery is supposed to be the result of consistent, observable phenomenon. Concrete things that may be more difficult to observe and comprehend, but are ultimately just as real as a sword. To apply your intellect to the task of how best to surrender it to a higher power seemed perverse to me.

The voice said:

Sorcery of the servants of Death. Summons vengeful spirits that chase down foes. Once though lost, this ancient death hex was rediscovered by the necromancer Garris.

Going on my theory that scarabs only appear where abilities like ashes of war, sorceries, or incantations are used, and somehow they gather up some invisible residue to make their spheres, I would suspect that Garris must've been here at some point. Perhaps this is where he even developed his techniques? I doubt he's still here.

To draw a connection, I found the Rancor Pot recipe in the Tombsward Catacombs. It has a similar effect of summoning vengeful spirits, though different methods. Am I to assume Garris might also have been there? That might explain how Deathroot got inside...

Now I came to a cliff overlooking a root-choked and damp chamber below. Bones littered the floor. Some were stacked up in drifts, but there were also complete skeletons resting in what looked like old, rotted canoes. Perhaps a vestige of some water burial in the past? At one time, they might have sent the dead over the waterfall that once ran through here. Once that dried up, they instead just buried the dead in their canoes.

But what interested me most was the grand baldachin, now rotted and torn, draped across the chamber beyond. Something important must be there.

Before I could approach, a terrible creature burst out of the ground. I'd seen its ilk once before, in the Fringefolk Hero's Grave. An Ulcerated Tree Spirit, a great writhing snake-root, like a serpentine mandrake. Even as I knew its movements, it was still so erratic that it was hard to predict at times. As it slammed me against the walls, I knew now where the drifts of bones had come from.

Once I had slain the beast. I was free to recover its treasures, both here and in the chamber beyond. Much like the last, it dropped a Golden Seed.

As for the chamber... I can scarcely describe it. I'll try to sketch it but I don't think I can do justice to the sheer presence of this thing. Despite looking like a stone carving, I knew on an instinctual level that it was alive.

It was a face, or approximation thereof. Yet it could not have been more inhuman. It at once looked floral, fungal, and animal. The lower half of the face was like an oyster mushroom, and from there emerged thick tendrils like thorny vines. The upper half had a disturbingly human nose but two oddly angled eyes, or at least eye sockets. The lids themselves were empty.

The whole thing burst through the stone wall on a thick body like a salamander, though if it had arms, they had not emerged from the wall. And its was very clearly a violent entry, with rubble piled up around it. Nearby, there was a bloodstain, and a corpse holding an item in its hands.

Oh hell. The bloodstain was Rogier. If he can't see Grace anymore, then can he even come back? Is he just dead for real now? I couldn't even see what got him but it looked bad. It lifted him up and seemed to impale him from multiple angles. I hope he's okay. I actually kinda like the guy. It was rare to talk to someone both intellectual and down to earth like that.

The corpse had a... Prince of Death's Pustule?!

A fetid pustule taken from facial flesh. It is said that this pustule came from the visage of the Prince of Death, he who used to be called Godwyn. As First Dead of the demigods, it's said he's buried deep under the capital, at the Erdtree's roots.

It is said, it is said, it is said. I hate it when the Voice uses weasel words. Who says?

If Godwyn was the first to die, then it is his death that created the Deathroot. Deathroot sprouts similar faces to the one on this pustule. The same milky white eyes, the same thorny tendrils... There was a couple things that puzzled me. I noted fish fins on the Deathroot growing in various catacombs and Summonwater Village. Despite its aquatic appearance, this face held no trace of such details, resembling an amphibian more than a fish. Second, while the Deathroot and Pustule share the milky white eyes, this visage does not. Instead, its sockets are empty.

Third, if we take the voice at face value and say that Godwyn actually is buried under the capital... why did this face burst out of the southeast wall? The capital is to the northeast. I can buy the Greattree roots spreading throughout the Lands Between, but I'd still expect such a creature to burrow through from the correct direction. The only things off that direction are the Stormfoot Catacombs and the Fringefolk Hero's Grave. And since the painting confirms that at least one of those was here before the castle, I find myself doubting if this is even Godwyn at all, or some other, forgotten Prince of Death.

I'll review my notes about those places and see if I can gain any insight, but arbitrary skepticism doesn't do any good. I have to assume that this is Godwyn, or at least an aspect of him, until strong evidence presents itself otherwise.

Still, to quote the only cleric I ever got on with, "Doubting is what I do."

With my investigation concluded, the only way to go was up. Thankfully there was a conveniently placed, if alarmingly tall, rope ladder. I began what was sure to be a very long ascent.

I had at last gotten answers on the rot infecting Stormveil, but they only left me with more questions.

Who are the dagger and book statues? Why were they purged?

If Godfrey built the earliest Stormveil, who built the tower and bridge?

Is that face Godwyn? If not, who could it possibly be?

If it is Godwyn, why would it come from the wrong direction?

Why does this face look so different from the other faces? Why is it missing its eyes?

Who is Garris? What was he doing beneath Stormveil?

What happened to Rogier?

Why was he looking for this?

[definitelynotarabbit]

Stuck thinking about how much the night of the black knives must have sucked for Fortissax. Like even if you don't subscribe to the "Godwyn fucked that dragon" theory, shit must have hurt so bad.

I find it very hard to believe that there could have been children of Marika that went unmentioned, which means that all of the soulless demigods that we come across were children or grandchildren of other demigods. I could buy Rykard having some children, maybe, but other than him the only potential parent left (and kinda outright stated) is Godwyn.

Now put yourself in the mind of an ancient dragon for a moment. You are older than damn near anything, excluding the very land itself. You have lost almost your entire civilization and most of your species to a combination of divine intervention and a very "bitter" war. But hey it's fine you have befriended a literally immortal prince and witnessed (maybe helped make) the growth of his entire family tree. Hey, why is there boss music?

"OH FUCK, ALMOST EVERYONE I LOVE HAS JUST BEEN MURDERED IN A FASHION SO UNNATURAL THAT WE HAD TO INVENT A NEW BURIAL METHOD AFTER MY BESTIES CORPSE STARTED SPROUTING DEATH INCARNATE"

I mean come on! The pure agony of your closest companion and his children being killed in one night, on top of the preexisting grief for the age of the dragons. The fact that any of the Black Knives survive to fight us the player is astounding to me. If anything, that just screams of how quickly things went south in terms of death root. Fortissax's first priority was tending to Godwyn instead of avenging him. I just mmmmmmmmmm

Fortissax went through so goddamn much man

[wodania]

“My name is Brutus and my name means heavy. So with a heavy heart I’ll guide this dagger into the heart of my enemy.”

[mistleaneous-chaos]

Elden Ring Spoilers

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I think one of the parts of Godwyn's fate which is the saddest part is the fact that he was literally the only demigod Ranni could have killed.

Like I know people may think otherwise but you have to think about the demigods that Ranni knew.

She probably didn't know Morgott or Mohg even existed.

Radahn and Rykard were her brothers so she couldn't do it to them.(Or if you think she didn't care for them, she still needed Rykard's help as she gave him the Blasphemous Claw, and Radahn likely could have killed the Black Knives easily, considering his Mastery over magic).

And Malenia and Miquella were Empyreans and incredibly powerful in their own right, making killing them unlikely.

The fact of the matter is that Godwyn was the optimal choice because:

A: He's the eldest Demigod (I think) and was the best of Marika's children, so killing him would have affected Marika greatly

B: He's one of the most worshipped members of the Golden Order, so it would have impacted them even more

and C: He didn't have a guard assigned to him like Malenia and Miquella would have as Empyreans (Because I'm pretty sure Empyreans all have Shadows given to them)

And along with that, Ranni probably would have had ZERO reasons to have a grudge against Godwyn, because he was born before Radagon left Rennala, he wasn't responsible for anything that happened to Ranni and her family, hell he probably understood her somewhat considering his father was sent away by Marika.

Godwyn was the biggest victim of everyone affected by the Night of Black Knives. He was betrayed by his half-sister, held down, and had Literal Death injected into him, but was not even allowed to die fully, as only his Soul was killed, but not his body.

[enbysiriusblack]

marauders in the atla universe:

(dorlene!atla here)