mistleaneous-chaos

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Was watching Snapcube's undertale playthrough, specifically the True Lab Section and uhhh.

Toby hey, hey toby hey, hey toby I'm gonna fuckin lose it toby hey toby? Hey, hey toby? hey, HEY TOBY???

AND OF COURSE IT'S IN THE ROOM WITH THE FRIDGES AND WHERE ALPHYS TALKS ABOUT ASGORE MANNNNNNN

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Disclaimer: Halfway through when I was writing this post initially, I took a break for a while since I didn't really know what I wanted to do with all the information in it, since I didn't understand the egg rooms in Chapters 3 & 4 Properly. Then I did understand them.

Finally got around to doing the egg room for chapter 3 after missing it and only getting the others and I am so glad I did.

I have lots of thoughts and want to sum them up here, so pardon me if I rehash information, speculate, or just sound outright unintelligible. These won’t just be limited to the Egg Rooms but will involve a good amount of stuff related to them.

There will be many things I discuss, and in the end I will be discussing a theory that I think others have had, but it's been one that's stewing in my brain and I desperately need to get it out.

I feel like out of all the egg rooms, this one and chapter 4’s really gave us a lot to think about in terms of the eggs themselves and their surroundings.

Chapter 3’s being the first ones we’ve seen with other beings is really interesting to me for a number of reasons.

In this room, Kris starts out as if they were not in the Dark World. And it makes sense because they’re not in the Dark World, they’re “Nowhere”. It’s not a place where darkness is deeper than it can be, nor is it the normal world, it is just that, Nowhere. And I think it's possible that whenever it started to become a real, tangible place when Kris visited, that's when it started to creep in, whatever it is that was outside of Nowhere, which is why Kris became their Dark World Form again, because the outside was coming in, the Dark was let inside of a place it wasn't aware of before.

It’s a place for people who are forgotten and “Copies”, such as:

the Rudinn “cards”.

Before anything serious I just love Kris’ thought process of “I suck at cards so I’ll just make my own copies!” These glimpses into their character pre-Us is always so charming to see. But anyways, the Rudinns give us some insight into certain “Rules”, such as those of copies. It’s a slight thing, but they tell us that copies have no color, and the only reason they do is because Kris gave them their color. Now this leads us to something people already probably knew about

The Goners, the characters in Undertale that had no real “place” outside of random chance. The Goners, to me, always seemed as if they were some kind of parodies of certain NPCs such as Monster Kid and The Clam Neighbor. Some of them may not exist in the world people inhabit(depending on FUN value), and some actively replace people who do exist, such as the clam neighbor. I still have no clue what they are meant for, but I do think that Gaster had a hand in their creation, considering the Goner Maker in Chapter 1 and the followers consistently mentioning him.

Everything that's been said about "Copies" takes more of a form when you also look at the pipeline of The Prophecy turning into The Lord of The Hammer turning into Dragon Blazers. Now, there's an entire discussion to be had with Dragon Blazers and Undertale (not Deltarune) and the symbolism of it being a "simplified" and "altered" version of Deltarune the way Dragon Blazers could have been of Lord of The Hammer and so on. But that's for another day. All I want to say is that I think there is a difference being drawn between copies and things that truly had passion put into them, after all:

It makes me think that maybe Gaster's Followers/The Goners could have either been copies of existing people such as Goner Kid(If they even are a copy)

Or some could have been beings that had something drained from them that caused their "color to fade", such as the Clam Girl/"Suzy's" Neighbor

Now then, this brings me to my last point:

The Forgotten Man.

The Forgotten Man, The Man that was behind the tree, is something that's been in the back of my head for years now.

And I think with Chapter 4, it's at least possible to interpret what he means in the context of the Egg Rooms.

In Chapter 3, he talks about how "You"(We'll just assume it's Kris for the sake of this discussion but it could very well be the Player) forgot about him multiple times, and he discusses things such as his schedule (The last part of which I totally think foreshadows Chapter 5's egg room because of Chapter 5 having been intended to be released alongside 3 & 4)

And also, he talks about the Egg. We learn what it is he gives us the egg for.

It's so we remember him.

Which brings me to what I think he means to Kris.

Throughout Chapters 3 & 4 Toby brings to light so many things he'd been foreshadowing with Dess, her disappearance, and what it did to Kris. And that brings us to Chapter 4's Egg Room.

Therapy.

In Chapter 3, when you get the Shadow Mantle, there's an enemy in the dungeon that you don't kill. Kris kills them.

There is no added context in-game for what it is, but in the files, you can see the placeholder for it.

A black deer.

December's disappearance was something that clearly affected Kris a good deal, and it becomes more and more apparent when you think about the things that they've done for "The Knight". They work with the Knight to create the Dark Fountains, but also close them. They do everything in their power to not impede the Knight, but they still want to make Susie and Ralsei happy.

I think that Kris is beholden to something that they promised Dess long ago, maybe around the time she disappeared. I think Kris flinched when they saw the Shelter in the game because they know what's in there. I think the reason they didn't immediately throw the controller out when you got in is because they were relieved. Because they realized that whatever force made the game didn't put what was actually in the shelter in the game.

I think the reason why Kris didn't open the closet even though Susie was gone and they could throw us out, is because they were scared of what they would see in the real world.

I think that Kris killed, or at least indirectly caused Dess' death. Do I think it was intentional? No. I do not think for a second Kris ever would have purposefuly harmed her. I think Kris regrets it. I think they regret it every single second they're awake. And I think, that more than anything else, they try to Forget it.

The Forgotten Man, I think, either represents or parallels the way that Kris constantly represses everything about Dess' disappearance. I think that every time Kris remembers something, they immediately push it down. They keep forgetting...

But we just keep. pushing.

Every time we push to remember, they forget. And every time they forget, the path to reach those memories again gets more and more complex. We went from going into a random room over and over again(With the only thing to remind them of her being an enemy that throws STARS at us), to finding a random room hidden behind a stained glass window with one part of it that resembled an egg.

We just push. and push. and push. And every time we push, the dam gets leakier.

Because at first it was just an egg. Then it was still an egg. But then it was a conversation with a man they want to forget. And then it was a painting that they so desperately wanted to forget about. And next? If the clues are right? We're going to Asgore's Dark World.

And while Tenna only referenced Dess in a manner that implied her being alive? Asgore is heavily implied to have a very, very, personal stake in Dess' disappearance.

I think that the purpose of the eggs is not something tangible that'll be visible in-game or in stats. But rather, I think that they're a sign that we are on the path that leads to Kris finally having to confront whatever it is that they want so badly to forget. And I don't know if it'll have an effect on the game, but I think it'll have an effect on Kris. And whether or not they move on from it, from feeling indebted to a rotting corpse, from feeling like they owe Carol or whoever's manipulating them their service, I think that maybe, juuust maybe, it'll lead us down a path that, while not important to our progress, is important to Kris' progress as a person.

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I’m gonna be so fucking fr right now if that golden flower in Asgore’s store gives off even a smidge of Flowey vibes in the Dark World I’m blowin its head smoove off I can NOT take the risk

A flowey analog in Deltarune is something that concerns the hell out of me like what possible being in Deltarune’s original dream state could have inspired toby to make Flowey

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Thought about how much they love each other and fell to my knees in despair

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Played through chapters 3 and 4 of Deltarune and I got a few thoughts rattling around in my head so pardon if it's a bit unorganized/messy for a good bit

Spoilers for Deltarune Chapters 3 & 4

Kris really got failed by every adult around them in varying degrees

If Dess isn't the Knight then it's probably a Gerson situation where she's been dead for a while and the Knight is her dust on her baseball bat or something. It could either be due to something that happened in the shelter or someone explicitly using the dark world as a way to bring her back even if it is in a weird fucked up way.

I don't think that Kris is a bad person, I just think that whatever "promise" they made is something the person on the phone is holding over their head and making them uphold.

Kris' relationship with Susie is something that I wanna see elaborated on more, because their rapport with each other outside of things that we directly make Kris do/say is really important to me because of how well they get along. (I ship Krusie but that's irrelevant...partially)

For context, it's a headcanon of mine that outside of our dialogue options and things that we, specifically, do, the things Kris does is of their own volition, taking whatever crumb of Freedom they can get, but if I'm wrong then please correct me.

I don't know what would be more tragic, if "The Cage" referred to in the Prophecy really is Kris and that's the purpose they're meant for in the grand scheme of things, or if it's the Vessel and Kris was never meant to be friends with Susie and Ralsei and it's because of Gaster or smth they got dragged into this.

I'm really glad Toby didn't make Toriel or Asgore "perfect" , and gave them legitimate flaws. Asgore flaunting his attempts to "woo" Toriel right in front of Kris and never really talking as if they're separated hurts, but at the same time he does love and care about Kris, even if he's preoccupied with a lot of other things(looking forward to seeing more of that in the next chapter).

And then with Toriel, her not even calling Kris once after them being out until 2 in the morning in a thunderstorm, while she's at home dancing drunk with someone she met less than half a week ago. And then when they get home, you can visibly see Kris' embarrasment, with them turning their head away from Susie when she talks to them. Then Toriel nearly falls over on Kris and just tells them there's pancakes in the fridge(which Sans ate), and goes back to partying with Sans.

I wouldn't be surprised if whoever was on the phone(most likely Carol imo but it could be someone else, maybe Asgore) is someone that Kris looks up to, or just someone who acts empathetic to what's happening to them. Maybe someone they met in therapy/knows they went to therapy(which they may have gone to if I read the implications of the Chapter 4 Egg Room correctly.) Honestly I wouldn't be surprised with how much Kris must feel like such an outsider even in their own room. They have to look at all of Asriel's achievements every single time they wake up, to the point Susie comments on it when she visits their room. Along with that, they're the only human in town which is something that gets to them, to the point that upon seeing other humans even in a book they shut it immediately.

On the topic of their family, I also have some thoughs on Asriel, and I have this to say.

I would not be surprised if Asriel just decides to stay at college and say that he has exams or something. With how much he would have to deal with in Hometown, and the fact that he would have to deal with the loss of Dess again, I don't think it's that much of a reach that he'd just stay gone. (Also I do think Asriel and Dess were in a relationship based on the fact that Asriel's old clothes and his retainer were literally in her room which probably hadn't been touched in years).

Now I'm gonna talk about the prophecy, which is a WHOLE can o' worms.

I think that at least one person in the prophecy is not a member of the $!$! squad. It's vague enough to where it's entirely possible that one of them is another character(Like The Cage being intended for The Vessel rather than Kris), and there are parts that are just straight up different like Ralsei saying Susie should be the one wearing ribbons(WHICH COULD BE A FUNNY BIT SO IGNORE), or the fact that "The Girl" is a vague name which depicts a character of the prophecy who uses a sword, which for a prophecy that has very vague imagery in other cases, is a very definitive picture to paint when Susie herself uses an Axe.

Now for what I think the ending is, I think it's something that involves either a sacrifice of one of the gang or someone else, I'm not entirely sure.

For Chapter 5, I'm looking forward to the implied Asgore section. I think it has the potential to be the most Undertale-feeling chapter out of all of them so far, especially with his prophecy panel having him wearing an actual crown. Along with that, I think having more Asgore-Kris interaction has the potential to be very sweet and have character development for the big man or very sad with him still having to deal with the weight he's imposed onto himself of "fixing" his family situation.

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More miqtobers from dailymiq

Ft. Miquella’s followers

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hey uh, i just wanna say this since i fuckin forgot to, but uh, NO CONTEXT SPOILER FOR THE DLC BUT

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WE GOT THE FUCKING OLD ONE 2 OH MY FUCKING GOD DEMONS SOULS FANS

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Marika's Prayer

Elden Ring Spoilers

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This post will be going into new information regarding Marika in the DLC, and a potential origin point for some of the events in Elden Ring's lore

I was looking over Marika's Braid's description, and the fact that it talked about her prayer along with her position in front of the tree and realized the synchronicity of the positions of the Finger Ruins, her home, and the crater of the only Fallingstar beast in the DLC

It's entirely possible that The Greater Will, or whatever the Outer God was called at the time was listening to her, and answered her prayer by sending a star directly near her home. Now what that prayer was, I don't know for sure.

But I suspect that after all of the pain and suffering of her people, it's entirely possible that she prayed so deeply for a way to end the suffering of her people, to free them from the chains of the World Order. And so, The Greater Will answered.

Sending a beast into the Lands Between right near her home, "Answering" her prayer, and giving themselves a tool to overturn the World's Order in someone who wanted nothing more than to do it herself

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Hey, I hope I'm not bothering you by asking this.

I just wanted to say that I really really reeeeeeally love your Elden Ring AU posts like...a concerning amount. They're so fun to read and give me loads of ideas, even if I haven't (and can't) play Elden Ring for myself. It's a very interesting concept and something I'd like to write about. Once my exams are over I might draw some scenarios that I have in mind (although I'm not very good at drawing so they won't look very nice). Will you ever make more posts about this concept or are you out of the Elden Ring loop for now?

Again, I hope this isn't annoying in any way, feel free to ignore this if you're not vibing with it.

Holy shit this is the most flattering thing ever uhhh.

I think there will be more of the Meet the Demigods AU at some point, I just have to like. Formulate the ideas in my head a bit more.

The DLC changed certain dynamics in a way that I really liked, and I think that once I understand them more, I'll be able to formulate ideas more easily for the AU and how the Tarnished and Demigods would interact with the new world presented to them.

I'm also happy because now I get to write Mohg more which I was apprehensive about before because of the allegations, but now I think I'll feel much more intrigued and confident in writing them!

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?

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That Miquella score’s fucking changing.

Elden Ring: Ranking the Demigods because fuckit.

Elden Ring Spoilers btw

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First is Godfrey’s side of the family

Godrick: 7/10. He’s a flamboyant rat that is literally the most pathetic being in the world, but he’s got daddy, grandaddy, and great grandaddy issues that honestly? Kinda bump up his characterization for me

Godwyn: 5/10. I missed the stuff with him on my first playthrough and will update this when I’m done with the quest involving him. He gets 5 points because he was cool and made friends with a dragon according to the dragon cult prayerbook

Mohg: 3/10. You get angst, you get a cool design, you get one of the coolest fights in the game, and you get fucking OUTER GOD LORE… And then you fumble it all by trying to become your half-brother (who looks like a child)’s consort. Goddamit Mohg

Morgott: 10/10. Dude gets amazing characterization from his remembrances and just as much, if not more angst than Mohg. With this bad boy you get a cool early boss in which you learn timing in a method meant to beat souls games-mentality out of you, you get a cool staff AND sword, and you get probably the one of the least corrupted/evil demigods in the game, because instead of going to war he just kept his dad’s seat warm. Morgott, you rule

Now for the part with divorce: It’s time for the R’s, ladies and gents.

Ranni: 10/10. Not only does she marry you, she gives you the FromSoft sword at the end of her quest. She’s also got 4 hands so you know what that means: 4 arms for hugs and cool handshakes. Also? She has Blaidd as a half-brother and Iji as a childhood friend, and then they become your friends. So really just great all around…. Just-just ignore that stuff with Godwyn, don’t worry abo- i saID DONT WORRY-

Rykard: 6/10. Cool snake man, funny voice, not much lore besides that. He’s also Ranni and Radahn’s brother so, that bumps him up a bit. Kinda made me scream “WHAT THE FUCK” when I saw his stomach face so that gives him some points. Average Atheist child of divorce.

Radahn: 10/10. Managed to stay a good person in spite of his mother loving an egg more than him and his dad leaving. Learned Gravity Magic to keep his horse from feeling his weight. Had a good rapport with his men. Managed to keep up with Malenia in spite of not having an Empyrean like her. Protected his horse from the rot instead of himself. Named his horse Leonard and still protects him to this day. What’s there to NOT LIKE ABOUT HIM?

And now onto the 2 Empyrean Children of Marika/Radagon

Miquella: 5/10. Don’t know enough about him to give him more points, he only gets 5 because he made the Haligtree which is a very beautiful area as a whole. Hopefully we’ll get more dlc with him

Malenia: 9/10. A fuckin’ VALKYRIE DUDE. Literally has Sephiroth’s Octoslash. Aesthetically one of the more beautiful and elegant characters with badass armor and an awesome prosthetic arm. Point docked because she gave us Caelid and those fucking TYRANNODOGS.

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How Shadow Of The Erdtree Portrays Hate, and The Tragedy of trying to Escape

Elden Ring Spoilers(Hey! Been a while since i did this)

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I’ve gotten further into the DLC and this might just be one of the best stories of how Hatred is just a cycle that repeats which consumes innocent people in its wake.

This DLC has done so much to make us understand why Marika did the things she did. She lived in a peaceful village, only for people she loved and cared about to be taken and put into jars. And why is that? Because their bodies meld well with others, something she can’t control since she was just born with it.

And so she becomes the new God of the Lands Between, imposing her new order onto others, and having her own son be the one to lead it. But when the fire fades and the ash settles, the one who suffers of the two of them is Messmer. She leaves him in the Shadow Realm because he doesn’t fit in her new order, representing so much of what is considered “Sinful”. And he is left alone, because of something he can’t control since he was born with it.

And then, as years pass and she makes a family again, she has twins! She can finally begin to rebuild, to move on from the hatred she felt!… except, she can’t. Because of the fact that her children have horns, just as her oppressors did. And so do multiple families in the Lands Between, with this seemingly “cursed” blood spreading, she has a choice to make.

Let go of the hate, try to accept her sons and the Omens.

Or hold onto it, persecute them, cut off their horns, and drop them into the sewers, out of sight out of mind.

We know what she picked.

And it’s this hatred that sparka another ambition just like hers. Mohg.

Imagine you’re Mohg. You have no family save for your brother. You live in the sewers while only ever being able to watch the outside world with happy familes and children with parents who love them. But all the while, what do you have? Nothing. All because of something you can’t control because you were born with it.

And so you decide to build your own order. Away from it all. Your brother wants no part, he clings to the hope of being accepted by that damn tree. But it’s fine.

You take some of the other Omens with you, and get to work. You even have help from an Outer God, so higher powers must want you to succeed! Others shave their horns but not you, no you proudly grow them out, even if it impedes your vision, because they are a part of you.

You take in all kinds, Humans, Omens, even Albinaurics, who had no home before. You give your fellow Omens real clothes, regal clothes. They’ve never had clothes after all, so don’t they deserve the best? You build and you build and eventually you have a beautiful part of the Underground to yourselves, you did it, you’ve won!

Mohg could have broken from the cycle, stayed in Mohgwyn, as he did even when chaos reigned above. People were strong under him, and had a home even if they were shunned in other places.

But that choice was taken from him.

Miquella used him to accomplish his own goal of godhood, robbing him of his own agency. Just like his brothers, Mohg was used by his family, but unlike the others, he wasn’t even aware of it. No matter how far he ran, no matter how much he tried to cut himself off from it. The hatred of his mother reached him, in the form of someone else using him to break away from the consequences of it.

Now I’m not saying Mohg was perfect. His group was no less sadistic than some of the others in the lands between.

But he was robbed of a dream, and told it was never his to have.

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They explained the stuff with Mohg in the DLC and...

Omens can't have fucking shit apparently

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y'all ever reach the end of google

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HE MIGHT BE GOATED

FOUND NEAR IMPALERS CATACOMBS APPARENTLY

WHO THE HELL IS MESSMER AND WHY DID THEY MAKE HIM HOT

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"Messmer the impaler" Wait he might be goated-

WHO THE HELL IS MESSMER AND WHY DID THEY MAKE HIM HOT

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WHO THE HELL IS MESSMER AND WHY DID THEY MAKE HIM HOT