#the most israeli fucking name in existence

[or-we-could-take-a-walk-together]

real footage of me seeing anna leong brophy as tamar kir bataar in shadow and bone season 2 for the first time:

[hilacopter]

I want so badly to talk about how much the right and even center here sucks how bad the military indoctrination is all the rampant bigotry but I just know fuckheads will see it and go "SEE THIS IS WHY ISRAELIS ARE EVILLLL BURN TEL AVIV TO THE GROUND" and yeah no that's a really stupid idea actually

[archtroop]

Sometimes I need to remind myself that tumblr is a fringe social network, and is by far not the average. What it is though, is a good sampler of the more extreme, I would say, ideologically swayed. A bit.

The more comments and notes I read from the Free Palestine crowd, the more it gets obvious that these are incapable, useful idiots. Literally, spoonfed couchpotatos at best. Starbucks Boycoyters at worst.

It's like the 00's insecure attention seeking posers, with an amoral, ignorant twist to them.

And they are entirely, ABSOLUTELY useless people.

Some morally rotten such individual wrote me that "Israel deserves what's coming for them, you deserve to die" etc. And it really made me think. What's coming? WHO'S coming? You? You, an unemployed tumblrina? You and what army?

What are you gonna do? Try to kill us all? What's the WORST you can do that wasn't, hasn't been tried already?

Truth is, no one is coming.

You read about this pompous, self indulgent "Palestinian Activism Solidarity ". What the FUCK are you talking about? Where is it? What, SA under IRI at the ICJ?.... Watermelon emojis...? ...Slogans?

The most "affective" actions FreePalestine Movement "achieved" was a few shootings/stabbings/rammings here and there, a hostage situation in Turkey in the name of Palestine (the man was executed on the spot after some negotiations. Turkey, yeah). A few burnt synagogues around the world and a whole lot of terrorized Jews in the Diaspora. Not a single Palestinian benefited. Not in Gaza anyway. To sum it up, what exactly are you gonna do? Blow yourself up in a subway in the name of Palestine? How incredibly unoriginal and unhelpful. Although expected and unsurprisingly fitting to the roots of the movement, I'll give you all that.

No one is coming. A lot of pakapaka from Nassrallah and Co. and a radio silence from the Arab world.

Iran pulled the Houthies out of their boydem only for Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan to reluctantly push the button to down Houthie ammo flying towards Israel. Houthies "asked" of Saudi Arabia to "let them cross over to fight the Zionists", and not only this is a joke, a caravan of sandals-wearing, AK-47 totting, Houthie caravan crossing Saudia to do what exactly? Bite Israeli ankles in Eilat Port? Rather It's an insult, to show that "here see we tried", since Saudis are fighting the Houthies FOR YEARS, it was never an actual option to begin with.

Are you blind? No. One. Is. Coming.

After 75 years of trying to erase Israel from the map, the 7th of October unleashed what could only have happened after Israel had its last straw broken.

Congratulations, you've managed at dehumanizing Israelis to the point that you managed to rob us from one aspect of humanity, even if temporarily: our symphaty.

Not forever, but for a period. And when you did so, you WERE LUCKY, for US were here WITHIN MINUTES, being smart enough to talk Israel out from attacking on the freaking spot. Instead, Israel waited 3 damn weeks. For 3 weeks, Israel called for the evacuation of Gazans from the northern side of Gaza.

Symphaty has an expiration date. The 7th of October 2023 was that date. You backed Israel to a wall, and no slogan will suffice against a nation that KNOWS that its very existence was threatened in a very real, visceral, inhumane, and depraved way.

No one is coming. Not for us, not for the Gazans. The Arab world is waiting to see, when will they wake up with one Iranian proxy less on the map. The truth is, aside from the pakapaka all round the clock, Isrsel was left with "do what you do, we wait" kind of global attitude.

Arab nations don't care about Palestinians. They don't care for the Palestinian Cause. Never had. It was always for show, as a pawn. A distraction. And we know it, very well.

The Palestinians are, and always were, used. They were used to carry on this idea that Israel would disappear from the map. If not by force, then by proxy warfare and terrorism, with time. If not by proxies, then by mass protest and public opinion. But the thing is, reality is a material thing. You need TO DO a thing for it TO HAPPEN. And public opinion rarely holds. And for how it's loud, the Free Palestine Movement is nothing but that: Loud.

As for the undoing of Israel and Bney Israel, well. Many have tried.

And oh boy, did the Arab nations TRIED.

They PAYED for trying.

But that's in the past, largely. Now, the annihilation of Israel and the creation of a Palestine is just a cruel pipe dream, with human prisoners, and an international cheering squad. After all, you can't free something that never existed and couldn't form one coherent ideology that makes sense and strives towards a positive, creation-adjacent activity in 75 years of its yappery. It's just not there. If the ideology surrounds destruction, it can not create. It can only destroy.

You may shout your lungs out and make up all kinds of delusional narratives. In the end, they are just that: empty words to make the righteous self of the woke crowd feel better, to feel active. To be a part.

To be USED.

It says a lot about the sad reality of this mass of people. The yearning for purpose, this loneliness. The rootlessness. Loss of identity. Identities so fractured, so incohesive. Loss of trust in the institution. The shallow knowledge. The practically non-existent reading comprehension.

All are easily diverted to create this cult like behavior.

People cry their eyes out over something that not only they have zero way of affecting but oftentimes is inflated, twisted, and presented as something completely false, or fake or what have you, instead of looking around them and doing something about their own realities. Pouring their hearts out over an unreality, fruitless.

This is either willful ignorance or escapism. Can't even say which one is worse.

This mass is being used. It creates a pool of despair, mysery. Feelings of "not enough", of unachievment. Those masses are breeding grounds for terrorism activity recruitment.

One party, one goal.

Free Palestine is a magic combination of words. You would ask, what is it? And they would sell you, ah, it's this magical place over the rainbow far, far away, and you can be the savior of those people. What a beautiful fantasy. Except you can't save those who did all their best to commit a slow, painstaking suicide, over 75 years. It's unrealistic, whatever this so-called "movement" is yapping about. There are no outlines, no strategy. It's just empty, big, bombastic words, to rile up emotionally as many people as possible, who look for a meaning.

I keep remembering the movie The Wave (2008). It's amazing how word by word, scene by scene, the story is playing out right now with worrying accuracy.

I don't know where this will lead Europe, UK, US, Canada... Australia... you all should be on high alert internally. But one thing is pretty clear.

No one is coming. As for Israel... You did your worst already. You have left Israel with nothing to be afraid of.

BDS biggest achievement was the eventual unemployment of thousands of Palestinians from the West Bank. UN is a joke. Red Cross is a joke. UNRWA exposed, visibly and undeniably. Abraham Accords are proceeding, even if slower, yet still they do. HAMAS gets mopped the floor with. And Lebanon has to do the impossible: drag Hezbollah away from the Isrseli border. Otherwise, there won't be much of a Lebanon to speak about in a very short amount of time. And that's not even a threat. It's reality. As government officials in Lebanon plead with Hezbollah to halt, Israel is ready on the border for 80,000 Israelis are internally displaced within Isrsel itself because of the war with HAMAS, but mainly away from the northern border because of constant shelling by Hezbollah.

And it won't hold forever.

And no one is coming.

Because who will? You and what army?

[determinate-negation]

I'm sorry but having token jew(s) in your student movement does not absolve you of antisemitism and does not grant you a free pass from engaging with this problem. While I'm willing to believe many of these groups do actually advocate for Palestinian liberation without dabbling in the old jew hate, the reality is that the last weeks have seen some Very, very hateful and concerning targeting of Israeli and Jewish students, the Cornell forum and blocking of the kosher food court, whatever the fuck is happening in Columbia to name but a few. Many of my Jewish and Israeli friends in American universities have voiced major concerns, regardless of their political stance (yes! Even anti zionist aka the "good jews"!!)

Why are you so quick to dismiss these people's claims, the *are* the marginalized group, they are the ones feeling threatened, calling them delusional won't make them feel safe, unless, of course, you do not care for Jewish wellbeing and existence.

I must say that for the time being, as a jewish student, I thank God im not in American academia.

i wasnt gonna even respond to this but its so annoying how people refuse to interrogate the framing of things because youre falling for propaganda and im going to show you.

when i say that there are jewish students in palestine organizing, these are not “token jews,” although that seems to be the only lens through which you can view standing with liberation instead of violent ethnonationalism. but anyways, these are not token jews these are people making leadership decisions in sjp and jvp chapters. in new york specifically, not that you would know i guess, and which is misrepresented in the media, the issue in some chapters is having only a few “token arabs” and mainly white jewish members. if any of the reporters actually did their fucking job the articles they write about sjp would reflect this.

the incident you mentioned at cornell, someone making violent antisemitic threats, which is actually scary, has nothing to do with pro palestine organizing. in fact, quite the opposite, according to his lawyer.

so this was actually meant to vilify pro palestine students, and its working on you.

and i dont know what youre referring to about columbia, because whats mainly happening is pro palestine students and arab students in general who are completely unaffiliated are being doxxed by right wingers and the administration is taking extreme measures to shut down political speech. lets be fucking real: antisemitism on college campuses exists and is an issue, but is mainly coming from right wingers or opportunists, not the leadership of palestine organizations. conflating them when its actually a different story is serving a specific political purpose of slandering the palestine movement. its also ignoring the real root of the problem. and more cops on campus and administrations destroying academic freedom cynically framed as “preventing antisemitism” is actually a bigger threat for us in the long run. its just wrong to consider pro palestine people as the biggest threat to jewish students on campus, they simply arent the people behind most of this increase of antisemitism. if you joined sjp you would most likely find people committed to justice and liberation and would completely welcome you if youre equally committed, and who are vocal about not equating jews and the state of israel. stop fucking buying all this propaganda. my post specifically was about the misrepresentation of college palestine organizations as antisemitic terrorists, and nothing i said in it was incorrect

[weemietime]

1. there's no such thing as a soul and 2. why does israel specifically need to be where it is now? israel has not even existed for a century. many different people have inhabited the land for thousands of years, mostly arab. is the only argument for the current geographic location of israel a religious argument? why can't it be anywhere else? if it's not a religious argument, why is the land so important if the it was jewish land thousands of years ago? is america justified in its existence despite having killed dozens of millions of native americans? WHY CANT ISRAEL ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD? WHY IS ISRAEL EXPANDING INTO LEBANON AND WHY IS IT BUILT UPON THE EXPULSION OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS? Religious arguments should not be taken seriously in the current day. The only other argument i've heard from zionists is one of racial superiority. Zionism boils down to white supremacy and Judaism/Jewish people are completely separate from that. The original zionists claimed to be secular marxists. How can you reconcile these inconsistencies and expect people to not think you're genocidal???

Good l-rd, the Kremlin-Hamas propaganda pipeline workin overtime. *Pats trunk* I can fit so much Nazi gibberish in this bad boy. 1) I don't give a shit that you don't respect my traditions and my beliefs, we already know you have no respect whatsoever. Cool.

2) Israel is where it is now because it is Israel, you deranged fucking lunatic. No, the people who have lived there over the last centuries have NOT been Arabs. There is ZERO archaeological evidence to back up a claim that Palestinian Arabs have been in Israel from the same time as Jews.

3) Point blank, everything you've built up here is a Nazi lie. this is false. A lie. We Jews dig up thousands years old shit from our culture in Israel. Not Arab/Islamic culture. It isn't there. You know your little al aqsa flood operation as Hamas calls it. Arabs built Al Aqsa over our most precious Beit hamikdash. Just for spite by the way. Muhammed hated Jews, ask the Jews of Medina how he handled them. Oh you can't they all got beheaded and enslaved.

Then turn around and call us colonizers when we return street names to their ORIGINAL Hebrew. You're ignorant as fuck of history, "dismantle colonialism" but simps for Hezbollah, the long arm of the IRGC who colonized Iran from the native Persian population. Do you know how many countries Arabs conquered? You don't know shit about the Middle East, keep us out of your fucking mouth.

This is called DARVO and its a tool of colonizers to suppress indigenous history and tradition and overwrite what really happened. And y'all are mad about it because Jews won't let it happen. We won't let you gas light and manipulate us and say see we're the indigenous ones when Arabs were the ones who rolled in and stole our land in the first place.

Arab migrations happened and the Arabs who lived there knowingly lived in stolen land, that is not our fucking problem. I would be content to live in peace with Arabs. I would respect moderate Islam. I would even say sure you can call Israel your homeland even though it's not, whatever.

By the way when Israel declared independence Israelis didn't force Arabs out of their homes. The Arabs all ganged up on Israel and attacked. The Arab league told those people leave your homes, we will kill all the Jews then you can come back. Welp they lost. Tel Aviv wasn't there before 1920s, dipshit. Most of Israel has been build on ceded, legally purchased land.

The amount of private land that was taken from innocent people occurred as insulation from terrorism from a war six other fucking countries started at once. Israel is genocidal huh, Israel has never once fired the first shot in any war its ever been in. Think on that you limp ugly bitch.

We're a community, a family. That's what Judaism is. By the way, that's what the people in those kibbutzim were doing too. They were peace activists, pro Palestinian peace activists, lol. They tricked them for twenty years, multiple generations, being their friends.

But Hamas doesn't want peace and they openly say it over and over and over again to you dumb fucking imbeciles, over and over and over. No peace, no compromise, no ceasefire. They want total annihilation of Israel and Jews world wide. That's their agenda. Don't even fucking come back if you can't acknowledge that this is what they want to do.

Palestinian Arabs can't even pronounce the word Palestine in Arabic lmao. It's not got any Arabic etymology. It was a slur to mock US, THE JEWS, by the romans. Can you pickup a G-d damn history book and read for once in your piss baby life?

[sideblogfornothing]

I don't think these people understand what censoring Israel feels like. It's like if people started censoring ch1n@ or Am*r1c@ or 1r*l@nd -_- ...do you see what I mean?

Imagine your just existing, than you see a post with 10k notes that has the name of your country censored, like imagine living you life knowing that outside of your country most people seem to hate you so much that they refuse to even write the name of your country.

Israel isn't an evil organization, it isn't a political party, it isn't a couple of cultists in a trenchcoat, committing genocide. It's a fucking county full of normal, human civilian people.

Hating Israelis, sending death threats to young Israeli people, sending r@pe threats, and telling Israeli kids to kill themselves, is bullshit. and you can't use "Zionist" as an excuse. Like imagine if I went up to random German children and called them evil "Nazi's." Like that's wrong! Thats straight up evil to accuse random kids of being apart of a genocidal political party that started in their country like 80 or so years ago. Or even right now, imagine if I accused random Palestine kids of being hamas. Like, משהו לא מסתדר

So, my point makes sense if you don't have an understanding of what a Zionist is. Like most of you. there are two definitions of Zionist, 1. A person who believes that Jews have a right to have a country of their own, because we can't exist in other countries, and everyone hates us no matter what. 2. A person who believes that Jews have a right to the land of Israel specifically.

A lot of Israelis are Zionists, but being a Zionist isn't really a bad thing. It's purely the belief that Jews should have a country.

And if you know any Jewish history at all, you would know that Jews do need a country for themselves. When we live in literally any other country, we aren't allowed to exist. No one wants us, so why be so mad that we have a tiny scrap of land?

Israel is tiny, you could drive from one end to the other within 6 hours. It's much smaller then a single us state. So why are people so content with not even letting us have this small scrap, that was originally half dessert and half swamp?

Palestinians have like 20 country's, we have one tiny sliver of land. Why are we made responsible for them?

Anyway, I know it might be hard to believe, but most Israelis hate the government. No one like them.

This post got a bit off track but eh who cares, people are gonna be mad regardless of how much I sugar coat stuff. People will send death threats even if the only thing on this post is the word Israel.

Anyway, it's Yom hatzmaut today, so fuck all of you. Unless your cool.

[creekfiend]

Hey, do you have family in Israel? Do you know whether they are alright?

sure, I do. in my experience most American Jews have family in Israel. When my family left their village in what is now Belarus, half of those leaving came to the US and half went to Palestine. (and those who remained were killed and that village does not exist anymore) I am not in close contact with the Israeli side but I expect I would have heard something if any of them had been hurt. Josh has much closer Israeli family as his brother Yoav and nieces/nephews all live there but they are also fine to my knowledge.

I appreciate the check in, but I will be perfectly honest with you that while it hurts my heart immensely that so many Israeli civilians have been killed, right now I am primarily concerned about the millions of people in Gaza without electricity or running water who have been ordered to evacuate or get exploded but who have nowhere to go. I am very, VERY concerned about the statements being made by the garbage fascists in control of the Israeli government right now openly stating their genocidal intentions on a scale that we haven't previously seen.

we are all triggered and traumatized as hell about everything, and by we I mean Jews, and I think it's understandable for us to feel that way. but I also am struggling a lot with the degree to which many of my fellow American Jews are making this ABOUT our big feelings of fear and anxiety. I understand that anticipating things becoming More Dangerous is something all Jews have had to do constantly forever. I understand that "position of relative privilege" is something that's extremely conditional for Jews and something that can be taken away at the drop of a hat. but... I don't know. I've been trying to think of anything coherent or helpful in any way to say for the past several days and coming up short. it's a nightmare. But it would be disingenuous to deny that it's a nightmare for me in ways that are removed pretty significantly from the ways in which it is a nightmare for other people.

my family is fine. I understand and empathize with the sentiments of "but what if my family becomes NOT fine?" especially when this is the largest mass killing of Jewish civilians since... well. and I am also enraged and terrified by the comfort with which many leftist gentiles seem to be practically celebrating those deaths. but I'm really preoccupied by the fact that millions of people and their families in Gaza are Not Fine in a huge and terrible way right now as we speak. this is not to say that it is a contest, but if I am doing triage, it is very clear to me whose leg is more broken right now. While acknowledging, again, that we are in a scary place globally regarding antisemitism.

Angry Jew on fb has been posting a lot of stuff that really speaks to how I am feeling right now. devastated by the horrible ways some of my people have been killed, and devastated also that inexcusable violence is being done, essentially, in my name. I hate to talk about this publicly because I also fucking wish American gentiles would kind of shut up about it a lot of the time, to be honest. and I hate feeling like I am giving anyone ammunition in their weird ideological internet fights about having The More Correct Opinion in the hypothetical trolley problem-ass situation that so many of them act like this is. the refusal to learn about any specifics of the situation in favor of just deciding it must be exactly like some other unrelated geopolitical issue that they feel they have a better handle on, and then just... overwriting the reality of the situation so that it matches up with what they are comfortable imagining in their heads. I have had to unfollow and block a lot of people lately.

I mostly talk to my safe Jewish and Muslim friends about this. and select few safe non-muslim gentiles.

Right now I am grieving for many reasons. Since you asked me about my personal connection I will tell you the main things I remember learning and feeling about this growing up. I've never been to Israel. Not close enough to my family there to visit, although my dad did, & never comfortable with programs like Birthright. I remember in the 90s my dad, who was an administrator at the school of Public Health at the local university, was helping put together programs that would bring Israeli and Palestinian universities and public health groups together to work on universal public health issues like helping ppl stop smoking, vaccination, etc. it was going really well at the time. he was going over there a few times a year to coordinate with the people running the programs there. he was really optimistic about it, & several other similar programs. this was back when Yasser Arafat and Yitzak Rabin/Shimon Peres were having a lot of talks that were seemingly productive and hopeful. like obviously it was hardly a golden age but it seemed like maybe Israel was moving away from violence. and then 9/11 happened and everything exploded and all the little programs simply disappeared and my dad never went back to work with anyone. and then fucjing... Netanyahu. and it seems like since then everything only gets worse and worse and further and further from anything other than horrible violence, and that devastates me

In high school I took a Mideast Civ class and one of my fellow students was a kid whose parents had been expelled from Palestine during the war and fled to America. what I remember being struck by when he talked about this was how his family's story was so similar to my family's story and a deep sense of shame and anger that people who had undergone what my family had could then make his family undergo the same thing. That's still a pretty big part of how I feel. I don't accept that that kid's experience was necessary to keep me or my family safe.

I'm just a guy. I try my best to learn as much as I can and listen to a large variety of people connected to this so I can have a more holistic view of things. I'm not making this post rebloggable for obvious reasons but since it's here on my blog, for anyone reading who is also feeling despair, here's some organizations that are good to follow & support if you are able (non-exhaustive obviously)

synagoguesrising.org Synagogues Rising is a coalition of leftist synagogues in the US who advocate for Palestinian liberation and who are currently begging the US government to work to deescalate military violence and provide humanitarian aid to people in Gaza

refuser.org Refusers Solidarity Network is a group advocating for Israelis who refuse to serve in the military as conscientious objectors

map.org.uk Medical Aid for Palestinians living under occupation & as refugees

Genuinely, thanks for asking about my family. if you also have family in the area, I hope they are also alright.

I want everyone to be alright. I know this is a lot of big baby feelings and no particular political ideologies or solutions and that's because I'm just one fucking Jew and I'm not an activist or a revolutionary and I kind of feel a bit like other online people could stand to admit more often that they're also just some guy and also not activists or revolutionaries. I sure have beliefs and I sure feel strongly about them, but man, right now I just want to express grief & anger & worry about how awful this government is and how many people they're going to kill and how much I wish it was not happening

my family is Ok.

eta: I'm reading this back and realizing that as a response to this ask it makes it sound like I'm saying that inquiring about the well-being of someone's Israeli relatives is like, inherently devaluing the well-being of other ppl and I very much am not saying that and do not believe that. I'm just enormously emotionally dysregulated and this got me kind of stream of consciousness about all of the things I have been chasing around in my brain about this.

[nerdylilpeebee]

I am not one to put myself into discourse but I really need to explain something to you,

As a Palestinian you need to understand that Hamas aren't killing babies, those 40 Israeli babies were made up, this had been confirmed over and over again. Palestine is older then Israel, Isreal only started existing after WW2, Palestinian's welcomed them but we're faced with Starvation,genocide, rape and bombing in return.

It is currently Ramadan, a time of fasting from sunrise till sundown, yet they have no food nor water to have before this period.

13,000 innocent children have died. Over 300+ not even making it to their first birthday. Girls and woman are experiencing periods and pregnancy without proper supplies. Isreal is not struggling, they have received over 300+ billion dollars in support from the U.S.A alone. You're ignorance isn't some "I'm better and different" stunt. You are actively supporting the death of entire bloodlines and families.

Don't you dare pull "Well, what if their Hamas" Isreal has proved they can bomb a specific room to kill them. This isn't about Hamas, Isreal is wiping out entire families, lives, homes, etc.

They're killing innocent animals too.

To put this in your shoes, imagine if you were bombed, raped and tortured, not knowing if you were going to make it to the next day, you're being starved. Whilst media is actively supporting your nightmare, funding it, even.

Before you pull the Hamas card on me, I have been raised with Western media and in America. I find myself lucky for this even though my people are struggling.

Please, scroll through pro-Palestine tags without bringing your opinion into the matter to see what is going on. I beg.

No, honey, actually it wasn't disproven. The people who tried said "yeah, babies were beheaded, but it wasn't 40 of them." XD

Palestine is not older than Israel. There are references to Israel in the Torah, which is older than Islam. And no, the Palestinians did not "welcome Israel". XD that is blatantly false.

And really? So tell me, why do they know for sure these 13k kids have died but can't name how many of their hostages are alive? Please explain that to me. How is that possible?

Okay? Israel not struggling doesn't mean anything. XD Being weak and having your government steal the billions in foreign aid to make themselves rich does not make a war against you a genocide.

I'm not supporting the deaths of anybody, and It is 100% about Hamas, Israel literally sends warnings in an effort to avoid civilian casualties. Even if Hamas isn't lying (incredibly unlikely) they have killed less than most wars have in the modern era.

Even if I was in their shoes, honey, I wouldn't want people siding with my oppressors because westerners decided the terrorists who'd murder me for speaking against them and consider everyone I know and love to be martyrs they're happy to sacrifice are resistance fighters. And hell, there are Palestinians who hold this very stance, who knows that Hamas is the fucking problem not Israel, westerners like you just ignore them.

You were raised in America and with western media? Cool. Doesn't change that you're falling for propaganda. XD being raised in the West does not make you immune to propaganda.

And no, I will not let idiots spread misinformation, and I will not let them villainize the Jews because Israel is actually defending itself when terrorists attack them and kidnap their people instead of laying down and dying.

I have paid plenty of attention to what's happening, including from the Pro-Pal side, I just happen to know terrorists aren't the good guys just cuz they play to people's sympathy and use their own people as human shields to make Israel look like the villain.

Just cuz it didn't lead me to agree with you doesn't mean I haven't been exposing myself to Pro-Pal talking points and "evidence."

[jewish-sideblog]

Wild that this post has 11,000 likes when it’s spreading such blatant fucking disinformation.

“Sabra” is word Israelis use to refer to an Israeli Jew. The "longer statement" attempts to refute the idea that Sabra was named after the Hebrew term by saying that the massacre happened in the 1980s, and the character didn't exist until the 1990s. Clearly, this person didn't do the world's most minimal amount of research. Let's get into it real quick--

Sabra's first full appearance was in Incredible Hulk #256, published in February 1981. She had a named cameo from the same run six issues earlier, in February 1980. So she was a planned and named character in development at least as early as 1979. The Sabra and Shatila massacre began on 16 September 1982, two years after Sabra made her debut in the comics.

Given her name and original design, Marvel's Sabra is likely influenced by the character named "Sabraman" by Uri Fink, an Israeli comic book creator. Sabraman's origins date back to 1978-- four full years before the Sabra and Shatila massacres.

This is a nitpicky point, but why are you following a Jewish discourse blog if not for nitpicky points? The Israeli Defence Forces were involved in the Sabra and Shatila massacres. There's no question about that. They authorized it, provided funds for it, and offered logistical support for it. But they did not carry it out. A Lebanese Christian Nationalist militia carried it out. Why lie about that? Israeli forces supported the murder of civilians! They lit up the sky for days so that the massacre could continue into the night! Why do you need to lie and say they were holding the guns? Is what they did not bad enough for you? This is what I mean when I say that you guys would rather resort to conspiracy theories and misinformation than actually accurately criticize Israel for once.

So where did I get all these facts? Did I have to do some deep dive into comics of the 1970s and 80s? Pull up niche and obscure military journals about the Lebanese Civil War? Nope! I got all that information by... looking at Wikipedia pages. I did double-check Incredible Hulk #250 to ensure that she was already named Sabra in 1980. She was. I also looked around for any articles that backed up the claim that fetuses were cut out of women's wombs during the Sabra and Shatila massacre and... I didn't find any. Al Jazeera doesn't even mention it. If you can find a reputable source for that, please send it to me! Until then, I'm gonna rule this as flat-out blood libel.

You may be asking yourself, why didn't Marvel change Sabra's name in 1982 when the tragedy occurred? Aren't they at least responsible for that? And personally, I think you'd be right. But Marvel didn't budge on Black Panther (named July 1966) when the Black Panther Party (named October 1966) was founded. It doesn't seem like they were interested in making character changes due to political pressures back then. Whether that's a good thing or not is a different story.

And finally, no, this post is not anything close to an endorsement of the new Captain America movie. I'd been planning on boycotting the movie named after an antisemitic conspiracy theory, from the company that butchers any Jewish representation they don't completely ignore, since before y'all found out about Sabra's existence. I just honestly thought the antisemitic nonsense about this character would be coming from the right, not the left.

Edit: Fixed formatting mistakes. Tumblr does not fucking like Hebrew text.

[hilacopter]

y'all have no fucking right to whine about how israeli leftists and pro-peace activists DoN'T aCtuALLy cARe AbOUt PaLEsTine because we don't spread fucking antisemitc misinfo and don't want our country bombed. perhaps we'd be willing to work with you if you haven't made it abundantly clear you don't want our support, you don't want our work and effort. in fact don't want us to exist at all. our existence infuriates you, it contradicts the black and white narrative you've made up for comfort in which all israelis are genocidal bigoted colonizers who's deaths are justified and welcome in the name of resistance. in which the big brave westerners get to play white savior and cleanse the evil israeli hivemind. you aren't willing to acknowledge us or ally with us because we refuse to work on your terms in which we have to disregard our own history in favor of your own false antisemitc narrative, we have to loathe our existence and grovel for repentance over the sin of being born, or we have to actively cheer for our own deaths. if you want help from the people who can make the most of an actual difference, who can protest the israeli government and military directly, then you're going to have to listen, you're going to have to apologise and you're going to have to compromise. you're going to have to hear stuff you might not like hearing and you'll have to make drastic changes to your movement of terrorist stans. but you've made it abundantly clear you don't actually want that. you only make us more reactionary and bitter by spitting in our faces. I've talked to fellow peaceniks who have lost the motivation to protest or donate out of spite for the western pro-palestine movement. I myself have become much more wary of it all. you're causing us to be resentful and then you complain like we were the problem all along when guess what, human beings (surprise, we are ones despite how much you want to think otherwise) don't have that kind of mental tolerance and you can't expect us to keep advocating for your cause while simultaneously having to tolerate your bullshit. in the end I think you're the ones who don't actually care about palestine, when you're actively rejecting movements and protests that are actually helpful as soon as they don't align with your worldview or your ego or your fantasies of a glorious violent revolution. your standards for what's considered pro-palestine and not "both-sidesing" are absurd, hostile and only harm everyone in the long run. peace is the ideal solution for all but you have made it clear you don't want that, you want "justice" based on your own misconceptions about a 2000 year old conflict you knew nothing about before and know nothing about now. you're in this to feel good about yourselves. I said what I said.

[girlschasinggirls]

do you not realize that jews are indigenous to israel? there is both genetic and archaeological evidence. additionally the reason most jews who lived in europe simply can’t return (where they are not indigenous to anyways) is because their neighbors literally were robbing and raping and killing and turning them into the nazis and other armies that were trying to kill them. it wasn’t just the nazis killing them. and do you know the state of antisemitism in america? jews make up the majority of victims of hate crimes, more than any other minority group in the united states. the fbi releases statistics every year. israel is the only country where they are not subject to outright discrimination on the basis of ethnicity and religion. this is because jews are not white. they are from the levant. if palestinians are not white, and many are actually originally from even further north than israel/palestine (many common last names translate to “the (name of non-arab group formerly colonized by the arabs)), then neither are jews.

yes palestinians are also victims of colonization, by the arabs and british and turks, NOT by israel; who aside from india is the only successful state to have fully decolonized. this does not mean palestinians are treated entirely fairly, but part of this is due to the fact that palestine has an entirely separate government, and israel has fully withdrawn from gaza aside from continuing to provide water and electricity, something they are not required to do as a separate country. egypt does not provide these resources despite also having a blockade set up.

palestine was not peaceful for jews before the establishment of israel. look up any given city or town and the word “pogrom” and you will be met with the story of a systemic killing of jews in that municipality

I’m going to have to use a few examples to explain this.

Romani people are ethnically indigenous to northern India and are currently mostly dispersed thoughout Europe, they were also victims in the holocaust and they are also heavily discriminated against in all parts of the world they live especially in Europe. If, leading up to and after the holocaust a Romani person created a Zionist-like ideology of a Romani ethnostate. If after WWII, with the help of the British they mass immigrated back to northern India as refugees and were welcomed by the indigenous Indians already living there. Would it have been okay for them to then commit their own nakba and colonise a portion of northern India and rename it Romaniland or whatever the fuck?? Start expelling and murdering the Indians that had been living there for generations who also have an ethnic claim to the land? Packing 2 million of them in a 45km squared strip of land and do to them what Israelis are doing to Gazans? Having the fucking audacity to say it’s okay because “they were here first” 1000 years ago? While also somehow simultaneously claiming that there were no people there? “a people without land and a land without people” ??

Did you know that before Zionists settled on Palestine, they also considered Uganda and Argentina for their Zionist state?? The Zionist ideology is inherent to the existence of modern Israel and is the reason it was created, the racism, colonialism, apartheid and genocide is not the fault of a bad government but the foundation of the country itself. The Zionist ideology and genocidal intentions were already in place before they step foot in Palestine and could also be happening right now in Uganda or Argentina instead so don’t try to bullshit that “they were here first” because they would be doing this regardless of the location.

Palestinians are victims of Israeli colonisation as we can see with our own eyes right this moment and literally how dare you even say that. Also you know who else is killed and discriminated against everywhere in the world they go? Women, gay people, disabled people, Romani people, this wouldn’t justify any of these groups creating their own apartheid state anywhere in the world and start doing what Israelis are currently doing.

I want to make it clear that in the process of the Israeli state returning the land to Palestine and ceasing to exist, not one single person needs to be harmed or killed, a lot of them won’t even have to leave the country and can just live in Palestine, amongst Palestinian people of all religions including Jewish, as they did when they first arrived after WWII. If Romani people also wanted to move back to northern India without colonising it and creating an apartheid state this would also be completely okay fucking obviously. Modern Israel is not the Israel from the bible. Every piece of land on earth is already belonging to an existing country and you cannot create a new one without occupying another. Sucks but that’s the reality. Have a terrible day.

[vergess]

Is “from the river to the sea” inherently an antisemetic dog whistle or can it be used in good faith in a similar vein to Free Palestine?

I’ve been hearing conflicting viewpoints

obviously if you feel uncomfortable you don’t have to answer

It's... complicated.

Personally, I don't believe most people saying "from the river to the sea" are actually calling for the immediate dismantling and re-refugeeing of Israel's entire population.

Nevertheless in absolute terms, that is EXACTLY what the slogan is demanding. See, a lot of people don't actually look at a map:

The area highlighted in red is, approximately, what "the river to the sea" refers to in its most conservative terms. Note how almost every single population center is within that range.

In practical terms, it's straight up a demand that Israel stop existing and Palestine be returned to local control.

And normally, being a fucking sensible person, you'd think, "Well, land back! Give it back!!"

Only you're assuming Israelis are colonizers.

Which IS. NOT. TRUE. Just because Israel is operating as a US colonial project doesn't make Israelis colonizers themselves.

Israelis are better thought of as refugees. People who were successfully genocided out of EVERY SURROUNDING NATION:

This map shows the expulsion or genocide of Jews from the area surrounding Israel over the last century.

Black-coloured countries have eliminated over 80% and up to 100% of their Jewish populations. That is to say, countries in black successfully committed genocide against their Jewish populations in the last century.

With any surviving refugees sent where?

To Israel.

Red represents greater than 60% population loss. In a century.

Blue represents 40+%, and yellow 20+%.

Remember: population loss over 10% is considered a strong indication of genocide, and 30% population loss is proof.

And remember that these number include the entire span of time between the holocaust and now.

IF it were possible to genuinely negotiate in good faith a peace treaty that allows Jewish refugees to Israel to stay in the Jewish Homeland that they've only barely even been sent to.

Then maybe "from the river to the sea" would not be a threat to finish off the last survivors of genocide.

But between US interventionism in the region, existing racial tensions, and the last century of genocide?

Good faith negotiations simply are not possible right now, and they won't be possible until the US and European powers make it possible by dialing back the imperialism and instead using their massive global power to support genuine negotiations of peace, that actually strive to develop a healthy, equitable society for both Jewish refugees returning to their historic homeland AND the people already living there.

Which, let's be realistic here. The EU is so busy crowing about how it's less racist than the US that they deny having even participated in these forced expulsions, claiming it was all "voluntary." And the US is literally still enslaving BIPOC in prisons.

So! That's just not going to happen!!

Which means we have to look at the phrase "from the river to the sea" not in the context of peace where it would be harmless, but in the context of, unfortunately, more wars over the last century than you could even give names to.

Where it calls for the expulsion of Jewish refugees from their homeland.

To where?

Well, most likely to death. After all, it's not like we're raring to take in ~7 million surviving Israeli Jews here in the US.

And that's the quiet part, I think. The part that people don't realize is being implied.

If Israel is gone, as the chant demands, then where do the 7 million Jewish Israelis go?

"Back home"? To the nations that killed off their entire families?

Because this isn't like land back movements in North America, where it is widely accepted that there would be no expulsions or relocations because they're inhumane.

The expulsions and forced relocations are already underway and currently ongoing.

That's the distinction that I think a lot of gentiles in the west don't grasp.

This slogan isn't "turn Israel over to Palestinian governance to achieve freedom" it's "turn Israel over to Palestinian control to complete the last century of genocides."

Like. Okay. In my ideal world, Israel as a state would never have been founded because the UK wouldn't have Done That To Palestine. But we live in this world, with this history.

To clamour for the dissolution of the Israeli state is to clamour for the slaughter and expulsion of 7 millions Jews. Bro that's half the global population.

Now, do I think "from the river to the sea" is an evil phrase and everyone who says it is genocidal?

No.

I think it's a poetic chant that works well in English and gets a decent message across to most listeners that they should support Palestinian humanity in the face of that genocide.

But I think that if I catch your ass shouting it after a ceasefire or during peace negotiations instead of during actual war crimes?

I won't be likely to trust you. Either you're well intended but uninformed, or worse, you know damned well what you're doing and its vile.

So, I don't know. I guess I would say it's not inherently antisemitic now, at this moment in time.

But give it a few months, and it will be, just like it has been before.

[infiniteglitterfall]

Me, looking through books on Palestine: "Ilan Pappé wrote one called 'The Biggest Prison On Earth?!' People in Gaza hate it being called a prison. There's an entire hashtag for it. There's been an account dedicated to collecting pics and videos of #TheGazaYouDontSee for 6 years.

"Is Pappé even Palestinian? oh god wait I can tell already. this is gonna be an 'Israeli apologist' isn't it." Internet: "Yeah, Pappé's Israeli."

Me: "For fuck's--- so people will believe Israelis unquestioningly if they're shit-talking Israel, but in all other situations, Israelis are all liars?"

Internet: "Pretty much. Also, at best, Ilan Pappé must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians."

Me, admittedly in full schadenfreude now: "What?!?!"

Internet: "Benny Morris. That historian who's extremely hard-core about primary source documentation, who wrote that detailed book about how and why each group of Palestinian refugees left in 1947-9. He reviewed three books about Palestine."

Me: "Holy shit. And the book by Pappé is about the Husaynis. The family that Nazi war criminal Amin al-Husseini came from, the guy who fucked absolutely everything up for both Israel and Palestine."

Internet: "That's the one. Morris wrote, 'At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two.'"

Me: "Why??"

Internet: "He says, 'Here is a clear and typical example—in detail, which is where the devil resides—of Pappe’s handiwork. I take this example from The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine'....

"Blah blah blah, basically in 1947 the UN voted to partition the land into Palestine and Israel, and extremist militias started shooting at Jewish towns and people. David Ben-Gurion was the leader of the Jewish community there, and his journal describes a visit from a scientist named Aharon Katzir, telling him about an experiment codenamed "Shimshon." Morris gives us the journal entry:

...An experiment was conducted on animals. The researchers were clothed in gas masks and suit. The suit costs 20 grush, the mask about 20 grush (all must be bought immediately). The operation [or experiment] went well. No animal died, the [animals] remained dazzled [as when a car’s headlights dazzle an oncoming driver] for 24 hours. There are some 50 kilos [of the gas]. [They] were moved to Tel Aviv. The [production] equipment is being moved here. On the laboratory level, some 20 kilos can be produced per day.

"Morris says, 'This is the only accessible source that exists, to the best of my knowledge, about the meeting and the gas experiment, and it is the sole source cited by Pappe for his description of the meeting and the "Shimshon" project. But this is how Pappe gives the passage in English:

Katzir reported to Ben-Gurion: 'We are experimenting with animals. Our researchers were wearing gas masks and adequate outfit. Good results. The animals did not die (they were just blinded). We can produce 20 kilos a day of this stuff.'

"'The translation is flecked with inaccuracies, but the outrage is in Pappe’s perversion of "dazzled," or sunveru, to "blinded"—in Hebrew "blinded" would be uvru, the verb not used by Ben-Gurion—coupled with the willful omission of the qualifier '"for 24 hours."'

"'Pappe’s version of this text is driven by something other than linguistic and historiographical accuracy. Published in English for the English-speaking world, where animal-lovers are legion and deliberately blinding animals would be regarded as a barbaric act, the passage, as published by Pappe, cannot fail to provoke a strong aversion to Ben-Gurion and to Israel.

"'Such distortions, large and small, characterize almost every page of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. So I should add, to make the historical context perfectly clear, that no gas was ever used in the war of 1948 by any of the participants. [Or, he later notes, by either Israel or Palestine ever.] Pappe never tells the reader this.

"'Raising the subject of gas is historical irrelevance. But the paragraph will dangle in the reader’s imagination as a dark possibility, or worse, a dark reality: the Jews, gassed by the Nazis three years before, were about to gas, or were gassing, Arabs.'"

Me: "Uuuuggghhhhhhhhh. Yeah, it will."

Internet: "He does say, 'Palestinian Dynasty was a good idea.' Then he does some really detailed historian-dragging about the lack of primary sources and reliance on people's interpretations of what they say instead.

"'Almost all of Pappe’s references direct the reader to books and articles in English, Hebrew, and Arabic by other scholars, or to the memoirs of various Arab politicians, which are not the most reliable of sources. Occasionally there is a reference to an Arab or Western travelogue or genealogy, or to a diplomat’s memoir; but there is barely an allusion to documents in the relevant British, American, and Zionist/Israeli archives.

"'When referring to the content of American consular reports about Arab riots in the 1920s, for example, Pappe invariably directs the reader to an article in Hebrew by Gideon Biger—“The American Consulate in Jerusalem and the Events of 1920-1921,” in Cathedra, September 1988—and not to the documents themselves, which are easily accessible in the United States National Archive.

"'Those who falsify history routinely take the path of omission. They ignore crucial facts and important pieces of evidence while cherry-picking from the documentation to prove a case. 

"'Those who falsify history routinely take the path of omission. They ignore crucial facts and important pieces of evidence while cherry-picking from the documentation to prove a case. 

"'But Pappe is more brazen. He, too, often omits and ignores significant evidence, and he, too, alleges that a source tells us the opposite of what it in fact says, but he will also simply and straightforwardly falsify evidence.

"'Consider his handling of the Arab anti-Jewish riots of the 1920s.

"'Pappe writes of the “Nabi Musa” riots in April 1920: “The [British] Palin Commission... reported that the Jewish presence in the country was provoking the Arab population and was the cause of the riots.” He also quotes at length Musa Kazim al-Husayni, the clan’s leading notable at the time, to the effect that “it was not the [Arab] Hebronites who had started the riots but the Jews.”

"'But the (never published) [Palin Commission Report], while forthrightly anti-Zionist, thereby accurately reflecting the prevailing views in the British military government that ruled Palestine until mid-1920, flatly and strikingly charged the Arabs with responsibility for the bloodshed.

"'The team chaired by Major-General P.C. Palin wrote that “it is perfectly clear that with... few exceptions the Jews were the sufferers, and were, moreover, the victims of a peculiarly brutal and cowardly attack, the majority of the casualties being old men, women and children.” The inquiry pointed out that whereas 216 Jews were killed or injured, the British security forces and the Jews, in defending themselves or in retaliatory attacks, caused only twenty-five Arab casualties.'"

Me: "Yeah. I'm looking at that report right now and it says there had been an explosion, and then people were looting Jewish stores and beating Jews with stones, and in one case stabbing someone. Some people said that some Jews got up on the roof of a hotel and retaliated by throwing stones themselves.

"And then it literally says, 'The point as to the retaliation by Jews is of importance because it seems to have impressed the Military and led them to imagine that the Jews were to some extent responsible for provoking the rising.' That's the only thing it really says about anyone blaming the Jews.

"Except.... the very beginning gives some historical context. And it does say that when the Balfour Declaration came out, Muslims and Christians 'considered that they were to be handed over to an oppression which they hated far more than the Turk's and were aghast at the thought of this domination....

"'If this intensity of feeling proceeded merely from wounded pride of race and disappointment in political aspirations, it would be easier to criticise and rebuke: but it must be borne in mind that at the bottom of all is a deepseated fear of the Jew, both as a possible ruler and as an economic competitor. Rightly or wrongly they fear the Jew as a ruler, regarding his race as one of the most intolerant known to history....

"'The prospect of extensive Jewish immigration fills him with a panic fear, which may be exaggerated, but is none the less genuine. He sees the ablest race intellectually in the world, past-masters in all the arts of ousting competitors whether on the market, in the farm or the bureaucratic offices, backed by apparently inexhaustible funds given by their compatriots in all lands and possessed of powerful influence in the councils of the nations, prepared to enter the lists against him in every one of his normal occupations, backed by the one thing wanted to make them irresistible, the physical force of a great Imperial Power, and he feels himself overmastered and defeated before the contest is begun.'

"Wow! What a great fucking example of how 'positive' stereotypes are actually used to fuck people over! We're not antisemitic, we actually think Jews are the smartest, most powerful, richest group with tremendous global power! So positive!! Not at all being used here to justify antisemitic violence!

"Also, immigration from all over the world actually meant that different agricultural and manufacturing techniques were brought into the region, and yes, financial investments to start businesses sometimes, which meant that Arab Palestinians there had the highest per capita income in the Middle East, the highest daily wages, and started a lot of businesses of their own. But go off, I guess."

"Anyfuckingway.... it basically says that the Muslims and Christians were angry and scared, the Jews were too quick to set up the functioning government that the Brits were supposed to be there to help both sides create -- and which the Arab leaders completely refused to create for Palestine, because (1) fascists and (2) didn't want Jews nearby -- and that they were "ready prey for any form of agitation hostile to the British Government and the Jews." Then it says the movement for a United Syria was agitating them real hard, and so were the Sherifians.

"Is that what Ilan Passe, I mean Pappe, meant by the Palin Report blaming the Jews?! That when it says it's understandable the Arabs were freaking out, because antisemitism, Pappe thinks it's saying the Jews were provoking them?!"

Internet: "I don't know. I kinda tuned out after the first hour you were talking."

Me: "OGH MY GOD"

Internet: "So anyway, then Morris ALSO says, 'About the 1929 “Temple Mount” riots, which included two large-scale massacres of Jews, in Hebron and in Safed, Pappe writes: “The opposite camp, Zionist and British, was no less ruthless [than the Arabs]. In Jaffa a Jewish mob murdered seven Palestinians.”

Me: "What the ENTIRE FUCK? There was no united 'Zionist and British' camp! The Brits would barely let any Holocaust refugees in, ffs!"

Internet: "Morris says, 'Actually, there were no massacres of Arabs by Jews, though a number of Arabs were killed when Jews defended themselves or retaliated after Arab violence.

"'Pappe adds that the British “Shaw Commission,” so-called because it was chaired by Sir Walter Shaw (a former chief justice of the Straits Settlements), which investigated the riots, “upheld the basic Arab claim that Jewish provocations had caused the violent outbreak. ‘The principal cause... was twelve years of pro-Zionist [British] policy.’”

"'It is unclear what Pappe is quoting from. I did not find this sentence in the commission’s report. Pappe’s bibliography refers, under “Primary Sources,” simply to “The Shaw Commission.” The report? The deliberations? Memoranda by or about? Who can tell?

"'The footnote attached to the quote, presumably to give its source, says, simply, “Ibid.”

"'The one before it says, “Ibid., p. 103.”

"'The one before that says, “The Shaw Commission, session 46, p. 92.”

"'But the quoted passage does not appear on page 103 of the report.

"In the text of Palestinian Dynasty, Pappe states that “Shaw wrote [this] after leaving the country [Palestine].” But if it is not in the report, where did Shaw “write” it?'"

Me: "I'M ON IT. [rapid-fire googling] OMG. This is.... Not the first time. In 'The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine,' he reported that in a 1937 letter to his son, David Ben-Gurion declared: 'The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as war.'

"It's not in the source he gave. It's not in any of the three different sources he's given for it.

"He apparently has never responded to any requests for an explanation, either from the journal he published in, or from other historians. But it says he did "obliquely [acknowledge] the controversy in an article in Electronic Intifada, in which he portrayed himself as the victim of intimidation at the hands of “Zionist hooligans.”'

"This is absolutely fucking wild. THEN it says the chair of the Ethics Committee where he was teaching eventually said that the second part of the quote ('but one needs,' etc) was a (combined?) paraphrase of a diary entry and a speech Ben-Gurion gave, and that the first half is 'based on' a letter to his son.

"And it's so convincing! The chair says, 'Shabtai Teveth[,] Ben Gurion’s biographer, Benny Morris and the historian Nur Maslaha have all quoted this letter. In fact their translation was stronger than the quotation from Professor Pappé: ‘We must expel the Arabs and take their place.’ Professor Pappé has documentary evidence of these quotations and the source will ensure that this is correctly cited in any future editions of the publication or related studies.'

"And IT'S NOT EVEN TRUE?!

"Ben-Gurion's actual diary entry (not a letter) says the opposite.

“'We do not want and do not need to expel Arabs and take their places.... All our aspiration is built on the assumption – proven throughout all our activity – that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs.'

"Benny Morris misquoted it as "We must expel the Arabs and take their places" in the English version of his 1987 book The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, although it was correct in the Hebrew version. He corrected himself in the 2001 book Righteous Victims.

"Teveth also misquoted it in the English version of his 1985 book Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs, but again, had it correct in the Hebrew edition.

"And both Morris and Teveth explicitly point out the rest of the entry. The part about all their aspiration being built on the assumption and experience that there was enough room in the country for everyone.

"Historian Efraim Karsh’s 1997 book Fabricating Israeli History pointed out and corrected their mistakes.

"This is apparently a very well-known issue among historians of Israel and Palestine. It was a big deal in 2003, when an evangelist Christian publisher put out a book FULL of disinformation, which not only used the same quote as Pappe does, but also could not give a real source for it.

"But Pappe STILL USED THE MISQUOTE AND DOUBLED DOWN ON IT EVERY SINGLE TIME."

Internet: "Are you done? I know all this already."

Me: "Also, there are literally only two places where the phrase 'twelve years of pro-Zionist policy' shows up online, and they're both about Pappe making quotes up.

"NOW I'm done."

Benny Morris wasn't, though. The review continues at the link below. And the next part starts, "To the deliberate slanting of history Pappe adds a profound ignorance of basic facts. Together these sins and deficiencies render his “histories” worthless as representations of the past, though they are important as documents in the current political and historiographic disputations about the Arab-Israeli conflict. Pappe’s grasp of the facts of World War I, for example, is weak in the extreme."

[unforth]

I'm glad your KS problem got solved. Can you please use some time to post about Palestine? People are being killed in your name. Use your platform please. Thank you

Hey anon! So...no, I won't be doing that. What the fuck do you even mean "people are being killed in my name"? Absolutely no one is killing in my name, and I owe talking about it more to no one.

First, I trigger pretty severely to harm to children, which automatically means that a great deal of the coverage of Palestine is very triggering for me.

Second, I think there are plenty of people already blogging about this, that not every single blog needs to become wall-to-wall discussion of Palestine, and that mass-blogging about the conflict is entirely performative.

Third, in general I rarely blog about political events, and when I do it's virtually always US election (FOR FUCK'S SAKE YOU HAVE TO VOTE) and/or things about censorship, because those are the areas that interest me and that I personally feel strongly about.

Fourth, I think the demand that a stranger blog about that one specific event, ignoring all the other ongoing tragedies in the world (the war in Ukraine and the genocide in the Congo, to name two that spring immediately to mind) is honestly heckin' weird.

Fifth, I own and run a business, and it's entirely within my rights to decide to keep that business apart from incredibly divisive current events. The business account (which is entirely separate from my personal account - it's not a side blog, it's a separate log in) - when it interacts with political topics at all - primarily blogs about recent happenings in publishing and related fields (so, legislation about free speech, ongoing strikes, etc.) and about recent happenings related to queer things (positive legislation and negative legislation being proposed or passed). I intentionally do not blog about other political topics, because they have nothing to do with the business. The most political the Press has gotten about the conflict in the Middle East is that we've quietly removed a couple books from rec lists that were written by authors or released by publishers who have managed, by publicizing their OWN views, to become especially controversial (especially on Tiktok) and even that I did extremely reluctantly, I just don't want to get Tiktok cancelled because we spent 5 seconds saying we liked a book by someone they currently hate, because Tiktok is Like That.

As to my own personal views on the conflict, which you are in absolutely no way entitled to know but which I have previously shared publicly so don't mind sharing again, I am a Jew and I was raised to believe that when all the rest of the world turned on us, Israel would always be the one place where we'd be safe, and I clung to that belief over 40 years of watching Israel become increasingly right wing and jingoistic, continuing to believe that the surest path to safety and security for everyone involved was a two-state solution.

As I previously wrote here, in the face of Israel's current actions against Palestine, I no longer believe that. If this is how Israel behaves, I no longer think Israel has a right to exist. I do still think that the best outcome right now is a two-state solution, but one that involves the complete abolition of the current Israeli government and army, to be replaced with a system that isn't, ya know, disgustingly fascist - and that if that can't be done, we need a one-state solution, and that one state shouldn't be Israel. This is my personal opinion.

However, I also acknowledge that for many Jews, this is an incredibly loaded, difficult topic, and I would never align my business to an official position like this because I have no desire to alienate people who I know feel as conflicted and complicated about this as I do myself. I take it as a matter of simple real fact that I respect my friends and colleagues enough to accept that they may reach different conclusions than I have about this, and I don't want them to feel unwelcome in a space that I've created because I on an individual level have reached a different conclusions about what I believe to be the best ending for this conflict than they have. We also do not allow political conversations of this stripe in our server for the same reason.

No matter how much people on both sides keep trying to paint this conflict as black and white, right and wrong, with one-and-done magic single-switch solutions, it's not that simple, never has been, and never will be, and the reality on the ground of ways to resolve this are also not that simple. Now, to be clear, I think it IS simple and accurate to say: the killing needs to stop i.m.m.e.d.i.a.t.e.l.y. That's a given and I think I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in the circles I travel in who'd disagree. But what should happen AFTER that? That's where I think reasonable people can still disagree about what should happen next to that land and the people living on it.

Anyway.

I should probably stop talking before, in my effort to be nuanced and balanced, I say something that leads someone to think I should be canceled. I am against the genocide 100% and this conflict has turned me from reluctantly vaguely okay with zionism to anti-zionist, but I also am tired of seeing people act like big problems have easy solutions, and I'm tired of the suggestion that anyone who isn't performatively outraged about this specific situation 24/7 is a bad person with wrong opinions.

Like, I think you need to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why you thought this was an appropriate ask to send a stranger. I'm genuinely disgusted that you'd try to turn a conflict that has nothing to do with me into something I'm personally responsible for because it's being done "in my name." Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with you? Antisemitic much? I'm a Jew, but that doesn't and never will mean that the Israeli government speaks for me or in my name. Fuck you.

[fluxphage]

temporarily back to shut off anons. I have gotten over 30+ extremely violent anons threatening to kill me, rape me, telling me to kill myself, all because someone accused me falsely of being a Zionist.

it is fucking disturbing how y'all are acting. Again, I'm not a Zionist- just a Jewish person with some Israeli heritage. I do peace work, I raise money for the PCRF, I fucking hate Bibi and his fascist cronies- I am not a Zionist. Hell, I'm not really for *any* country existing, why the fuck would I specifically believe in Israel? This has been a specific attack towards me for being Jewish, and for having different fucking fandom opinions on the most inane bullshit. Pretty sure the person attacking me with this shit thinks I sent those anons- I did not. I don't give a shit about their fandom shit, I really don't. Like whoever you like, I can just block you if it's an issue. In addition, I was informed a former friend of mine is accusing me of 'branding them a neo nazi and driving them out of the community' when neither of those things happened. I have zero power to drive anybody out of any community- if this person was removed from any spaces, it's because of their own behavior. They seem to be active in the D2 community anyways, so I don't know how they were 'driven out' ?... I'm probably going to be off Tumblr for a while more. I had an extremely hard time of things, especially after getting that sheer amount of violent anon hate. And no, me being harassed and having a reaction to it was not 'emotional manipulation i have a track record of', you're just cruel.

To wrap all this shit up- Calling a Jewish person pro-rape and pro-genocide over fucking Destiny is deeply deeply disturbing. I did not miss how I was specifically called 'a Jew' the whole time either.

I'm calling on anyone who spread this libel about me to take it down, as you are directly contributing to harassment against me and other Jewish people in the Destiny fandom. You are actively making this fandom an unsafe space for Jewish people. Calling the Cabal a cutesy name in the name of 'antisemitism' while harassing Jewish people you don't agree with is the peak of performative.

[sissa-arrows]

Have you ever encountered any PoC who were defensive of or “both sides” colonialism before? I remember one such conversation a friend had with a somewhat privileged classmate who complained that people harp on too much about colonialism and he argued it brought some benefits to the world. He said that his family was able to build their fortunes in that time and that places in East Asia (Hong Kong, Shanghai, Singapore) prove his point. He believed anti-colonial critics were too one-sided. What usually is your response to these mind-boggling takes to “see the whole picture”?

I did meet PoC like that. Mostly Moroccans who support Moroccan colonialism in Western Sahara in my case because of how French society is built (I’m more likely to cross path with a Moroccan than with a Korean for example) but I don’t think it’s unique to them. That being said I do think PoC who currently benefit from colonialism in their “home country” are more likely to dismiss the horrors of colonialism. People from Morocco, Türkiye, China… to name only these three, are more likely to try and justify colonialism because their countries are colonizing other people right now so they can’t just outright say colonialism is horrible and then support what their countries are doing.

First thing first if his family built their fortune during colonialism I have some news for him… they very likely were a bunch of spineless traitors who worked with the colonizers so honestly his opinion on colonialism is worthless.

Personally when people start with their both side I either just call them a piece of shit and leave, or if I can’t leave and can’t really argue I tell them “Look you’re full of bullshit so unless you want to eventually get punched in the face you need to stop right there and shut up” or when I can argue “You’re so right they built so many buildings, after destroying the ancestral buildings that were there. And all the schools they built as well! After destroying the existing school and after making sure the indigenous people wouldn’t have access to these new schools. Or wait maybe you’re talking about how good the colonizers were at training dogs? Very obedient dogs they even trained them to rape the indigenous men in some countries (to my knowledge only the French did it on Algerian men and now the “Israeli” are doing it to Palestinians but still) ! Please which one of these things is the most positive aspect of colonialism I really wanna know?”

So basically to answer your question I think the best options are

- If they just randomly both side it without listing some of the so called positive aspects: listing the horrors of colonialism and asking them which one of these things is so positive.

- If they do list some of the so called positive aspects: listing the horrors of colonialism and asking them if that minimal “positive thing” was worth these horrors. Switzerland got richer from WW2 so are we just going to say that WW2 had some positive aspects and that we insist too much on the negative? No. Nobody in their right mind would do that. So why would that be okay to do that with colonialism which made so much more victims all over the world?

- Sometimes it’s honestly not worth it and you just need to tell them to shut the fuck up already and leave the conversation. I know it seems counter productive to not argue and I have a hard time respecting that advice myself but sometimes arguing with a racist (because those who think colonialism had some good stuff are racist no question asked) only gives them more power. At the end of the day you’ll have used your energy to argue about your own humanity to prove that you are human and the other side still gets to ignore your humanity.

P.S: There’s a conversation to be had on privileged PoC in the Global North who behave like white people when other PoC in the Global North and in the Global South tell them they have privileges. But that’s only loosely related to the topic of this ask so I will refrain unless someone wants my opinion on the subject.