#teen wolf showrunner

[mysticalmentalityobject]

I'll be completely honest now. I've never understood and never will understand what's so appealing about a couple of Stydia and I've really tried very hard and I'll explain why.

!!!!!

I'm trying to be super objective and I do not write this to hurt anybody, I just share my personal opinions and feelings. But if you are more sensitive and that's ok and you love the couple, scroll down. If you will be toxic and agressive, then be aware that I have no intentions to deal with you, you either accept it or not, but if you can't express yourself as a decent human being, scroll down too. If you are open to someone's perspective, go ahead and read.

!!!

1. Trope "One has a crush on the other since childhood".

I've never been a big fan of these couples, of course there are cases where it makes sense, but these are couples where they're close friends, a classic nineties one, where two people have known each other since childhood, they're important in their lives. That rapprochement, even if friendly, just created that love. However, there was nothing to create with Lydia and Stiles, Lydia wasn't interested in his existence and Stiles rather gave the impression of a creep who is superficially obsessed with the girl, including how perfect, beautiful and smart she is in every way, but there's not a deeper connection to her essence. Of course, since she didn't notice him, he could only watch her and not really get to know her. Because Lydia is at the same time caring, cynical, she has a lot of flaws, but that's okay, that's what makes her Lydia, but I feel like he didn't see it at first and couldn't because, I repeat, he wasn't in her close circle, he didn't know her. It was just a fantasy.

2. Chemistry.

At best, it felt like sibling chemistry to me, and that's paradoxically what I loved about them. Lydia was so maternal and sisterly, and their whole chemistry, while cute, wasn't strong enough to sustain a relationship, it worked well on a friendly level. Plus, it would be a good indication of Stiles actually growing up and having a real relationship with a real girl that's mutual and fulfilling, rather than still being obsessed with his childhood crush.

Someone who likes them might take that as staying true to their "love" with all their heart, but from my perspective, it's a terrible step backwards. Being obsessed with your childhood crush when you're already in a real relationship - you do not do this and most importantly, it just doesn't make sense, and it's yet another reason why Malia was totally mistreated and as a Lydia fan, I'll protect this girl at all cost.

3. The writing.

A less extensive but essential detail is the writing of the relationship, where they always left the back door open, however, following the twitter of one of the writers, how much they wrote that Stiles loved Malia and how the kiss between Lydia and Stiles was just about friendly help, so that in the following season they would use it as a building block for their relationship...even though it doesn't make sense, because right after the kiss Lydia was able to throw herself at Aiden, then build a bond with Jordan, there was actually nothing to indicate that her perspective would change in any way. They decided to write that in later, when they decided to go ahead and finally make it happen. They used because it could have been used with different interpretation, but when you already know how they wrote it, you do not believe it unless you are really really into that you do not care.

I probably don't even need to talk about the issue of kissing someone during a panic attack.

4. Overrated

This couple is kinda glorified, but they did not always treat each other nicely. It's not like it's a problem for me, but I see opinions like Stiles was always nice and they did no wrong. Yes, they did..

5. Malia

Well, that's also a thing, because I could see Stiles work in real relationship and see positive changes on both sides, mutual love, a real on-screen relationship, it was nice to see. But someone decided to throw it under the bus, make one of the pointless breakups ever and return to childhood crush. It was out of blue. We could see more scenes where Lydia and Stiles hang out and are actually getting closer, like see it in their performance, but the only thing close to it was the end of season when the gang saved Lydia from Eichen house, but their other scenes were pretty regular. Season six started with Stiles obsession renewed, but Lydia was still the same until her disappeared and the she suddenly loved him and had more connection with him than everyone else? Like more than Malia, Stiles was her anchor, more than his best friend and brother figure Scott, more than his own FATHER? That was so lame writing, honestly they did not even try. They just threw what might look likable. Sorry, but I saw Wattpad stories looking better than this. They could connect some things, so they did it. If I were their fan, I guess I would be happy they are together no matter how they did it. But as someone, who never had much taste for that ship, I see it as very rushed and lame, quite lazy to find something. It would make sense for Lydia to be "the moment when it all changed" how Stiles saved her. But of course, there is no kiss, it's a team work including Jordan, but yeah, here it would make sense, we also could see after how she's grateful to him and he earned her respect, but nah, let's put that toxic panic attack kiss, who had no influence on how story kept going and was not even mentioned later...

Summary.

So, I guess I could write endless rants about this couple.

I think it had excellent potential to be a strong friendship. I enjoyed watching it.

It's a teen drama, so there's always room for romance between everyone. However, it's just and I'm being brutally honest now- fanservice. Just throw a bone and eat. Why else would it rely on the biggest clichés, everything was so rushed on Lydia's part, when it had the opportunity to build on that friendship and mutual respect? No, suddenly it's all back again, I had a crush on you and I couldn't get over it. And Lydia suddenly fell in love because the script said so. The potential was there, but poorly executed.

[bisexualisaaclahey]

truly the saddest thing about malia is that they had the opportunity to make a significantly more "weird" girl like they should have showed her being a total freak!!! and they didn't!!! she could have shown up to beacon hills high school with 0 fashion sense and unshaved legs and 0 makeup and they could have shown this ON TV and shown that its OKAY to have all of those things and instead she's a pretty teenage girl who's just quirky and failing math

[mneiai]

Watching Season 5 and reminded again of how much I checked out of Teen Wolf during this season because of the heavy reliance on the lazy writing tropes I absolutely despise, such as people acting like someone reacting in a reasonable manner is being completely unreasonable, that someone clearly under a ton of stress is acting like a monster when they're like slightly meaner than normal, and no one just fucking talking to each other about what they're doing even when in previous seasons they would have.

[karnaxa]

Teen wolf is very funny to me and this YouTuber gets it

[pigfartsviatardis]

Was discussing queerbaiting recently with a friend because we’re watching Once Upon A Time (trash, but shockingly well written trash in the first 3 seasons) and obs we both ship swan queen. I mean. Come on.

But we noticed that from the start of s3 onwards, there was noticeably less shippy stuff between these two. There’s still a bit here and there because a) lesbian mums and b) chemistryyyy… but it felt like the writers were intentionally backing off from that pairing and putting genuine effort into the male love interests for both characters.

You might think that becalming the swan queen ship would have annoyed or disappointed my friend and myself, the shippers. But tbh we both agreed that it was actually nice to see a writing team see a popular queer fandom ship, go ‘oh whoops that’s not endgame’, and actively NOT bait it.

Obviously everyone here is aware of the Golden Age Of Queerbaiting, the late 2000s/early 2010s; even if you’re too young to have actually battled through it, it’s deep tumblr lore. We all know the repeat and egregious offenders from that time - destiel, merthur, johnlock, whatever the main one was on teen wolf - and how gleefully these shows would dangle queer rep in front of our twitching little noses.

Recently, I’ve noticed a more insidious trend: the Male Friendship Scarcity Myth. The most glaring recent examples are nandermo (WWDITS) and jayvik (arcane), both of which were popular ships after the first season(s) of their shows aired and were subsequently given increased screen time and shippy scenes/storylines. In the case of nandermo, the romantic feelings (at least from Guillermo) were textual. Both pairings were given ambiguous endings where they were together, but not confirmed as, yknow, together.

And then both showrunners, after the shows ended, decided to step up to the mic and give a heartfelt little speech along the lines of ‘men are allowed to be friends without it being sexual, and it’s actually really important that we show this, because we need more representation of close platonic brotherly male friendship in media’.

Anyone who was around during the aforementioned Golden Age Of Queerbaiting, or in fact anyone who consumes popular media at all, knows that this is horseshit.

It’s only ever close platonic brotherly male friendship. Or at least, 95% of the time. Everywhere you look, from major fandom shows to mcu movies, platonic male relationships are often front and centre. That’s nearly always the canon. How often does a major mlm ship actually go canon??? Hardly ever. Even destiel didn’t; cas’s feelings were confirmed last minute, but the official canon dynamic between him and dean is still brotherly bffs.

Are these friendships often the subject of intense fandom shipping? Yes, as literally any close relationship between any two characters of any gender always will be. People like shipping! But the official canon, and the gospel truth held up by poorly disguised homophobes in fandom, is nearly always strictly platonic bros.

Anyway. All this to say, I’ve been disillusioned recently seeing this myth pop up in every comments section on any jayvik-related content, that we have a lack of male friendship in media (we don’t, we have a lack of male friendship that isn’t queer coded to super turbo gay hell and back in media). I was even more disillusioned seeing the exact same rhetoric being spewed by those involved with WWDITS, which is ironically a show jam packed full of close male friendships THAT INVOLVE CASUAL SEX. The call was truly coming from inside the coffin on that one.

So, unexpectedly and somewhat depressingly, swan queen and OUAT have been a balm for the soul in the midst of all this. No queerbaiting (at least not where I’m up to), just good old fashioned straightwashing. At least it’s honest 🤷‍♀️

[edison-khc]

my absolute favourite character in teen wolf even if the writers did her so fucking dirty my god.

but kira yukimura is so fucking cool, i just wish the showrunners also knew that.

(i have so many thoughts, and im so tempted to just make a large rant block about it )

P.S (shes also on my redbubble if you want to get this sticker)

[mieczy-stiles]

okay but honestly? Not even saying it as someone who loves them but why wouldn't you go through with them. Your world of no homophobia didn't allow a great fan favourite pairing to thrive? Do we not have great examples like Monica and Chandler? I can understand thinking it's the fandom's crack ship and laughing along with it a little bit initially but then to completely turn blind to all the profits it could've gotten is just bizzare and hilarious. So you can use the pairing to ask for votes and poke fun at them from time to time and you can have the actors give seperate interviews together to garner more views and bait people but you can't have them interact on screen for more than 30 minutes in a show that ran for 6 seasons. And then you make a joke of a movie and bait AGAIN but refuse to acknowledge the obvious chemistry two people shared for a decade. I mean. I have seen toddlers doing better business than this

“You didn’t think you’re doing this without me, did you?” “Without us?”

[vmures]

I love Teen Wolf and the creativity of the fandom. But the showrunners and writers did the series no favors. The continuity is among the worst of any show I've ever seen. How old are the characters? Depends on which episode you go from. What are the characters motivations and drives? Who are the villains and who are the heroes? We don't actually know, because the show changes its mind about that constantly. It's such a hot mess that I'm never surprised that can gather ten fans and ask their opinion on a scene or episode and get ten very different takes all with specific evidence to support their claims.

My personal take is that because the show is a hot mess it makes for a rich sandbox to play in. And I enjoy that. Find people who have similar takes and enjoyment and cultivate those friendships and block anyone who tries to police your enjoyment or tell you how you must perceive the show. Ain't no one got time for that.

[moistvonlipwig]

a lot of people in fandom conflate "bad things happening to a character within the text" with "the character being mistreated by the narrative" and a lot of people conflate that with "the showrunner/author/creator hating or not caring about the character".

but bad things can happen to a character as part of their organic character journey. marcy wu from amphibia, for instance, is not mistreated by the narrative; she is given a full, complex arc. the stabbing + possession by the core are part of that arc. they do not detract from it. having her learn an actual lesson from her mistakes and not be handed everything she wants on a silver platter was also good for her arc, actually. she would not be half the amazing character she is if she had just stuck around being the same old marcy in season 3 and then chosen to stay in amphibia forever (???).

and buffy summers of buffy the vampire slayer fame is literally the main character in a show entirely about the hardships of growing up. of course bad things are going to happen to her, that's what happens when you grow up...the only bad thing that happens to buffy that does not add to her arc is the attempted rape in "seeing red". which is significant to be fair but it's also only one writing choice in seven seasons' worth of television. her boyfriend turning evil in season 2 is not her being "punished for having sex", it is about how sometimes when you are a teenage girl your boyfriends will turn out to be abusive and you have to learn to trust and rely on yourself and not blame yourself for their behavior.

or take derek hale from teen wolf, a character with a powerful and triumphant arc about healing from trauma and choosing not to let the past define you and thus rejecting your destructive quest for power and revenge as embodied by your evil uncle and reclaiming the positive legacy of your family as embodied by your mother instead. except according to some people, he is horribly mistreated by the narrative because sometimes bad things happen to him. at least half of these bad things, by the way, are consequences of his own damn actions. the other half are either part of his backstory or are obstacles put in his way on his journey to becoming a better person. which happens to every major teen wolf character so like. what do you expect lol.

and even when characters are genuinely mistreated it does not mean the writers hate them. for example regina mills from once upon a time was the subject of racist and misogynist writing choices and was held to unfair double standards by the narrative, which often demonized and punished her while rewarding white characters and male characters for similar or worse behavior. but she was also blatantly the creators' favorite character and it would be absurd to pretend otherwise. sometimes writers don't treat their favorite characters well or don't think through the implications of their choices...it doesn't mean they hate the character. come on now

[worstqueerbaittournament]

Submission message for Stiles and Derek (Teen Wolf): Sterek! The showrunner even had fans vote in polls and promised to make Sterek happen if we won fandom awards! There were promo videos of the two actors cuddling on a ship...

Submission message for Dean: You said destiel was submitted, but can I submit Dean Winchester?

Additional propaganda: say what you want but im still not over the psychic damage of that mtv ad for teen wolf where they put stiles's actor in derek's actor's lap and had them cuddle and shit for votes. please if u have any mercy they will make it to the finals.

They baited us into voting for the MTV choise awards by having the actors literally cuddle on a boat! (Stiles' actor said "we are on a ship")! They promised us if we won, we would get more of the two actors "taking naps together"! Heavily baiting canon sterek if we vote!! AND WE DID!!! And nothing happened. I hate Jeff Davis so much JUST LOOK AT THIS

ik you're trying to run things without too much bias, but I think it's really a tragedy that we're gonna have to choose for slot 5. sterek because it was genuinely wild and is somewhat buried tumblr history (tumblr learned queerbait from sterek, destiel, johnlock, and merthur, you know?), and that tartorte one bc someone's propaganda really blew me out of the water. like, holy moly. I just want other people to know about it now lol

He [Dean] literally checks out other men multiple times, he gets flustered when men flirt with him, one of his biggest heroes are a hot male doctor from a soap opera and a wrestle star AND he "jokingly" hits on Cas multiple times!!!!

[wasted-women]

ROUND 1C, MATCH 1 OUT OF 8!

Cause of Death & Propaganda Under the Cut:

Allison Argent

Cause of Death: Stabbed by a demon

Propaganda:

She's so cool! She fights with a bow and arrow, she has complicated feelings on her werewolf boyfriend and is allowed to work through that, she's best friends with another girl who's also a banshee (should've dated her) and one of her first scenes is her hitting a dog with her car and bringing it to a vet(she's a mess! She's caring)

she was the protag's girlfriend and only died because the actress had to leave the show. it left a hole in the show that they never really managed to fill, and she is only really brought up to say "let's do this, it's what allison would tell us to do" or "I wish she was here." her father stays on the show and helps them in her memory but he and the protag suffer and learn from it the way most male characters in this trope do. she is brought back to life in the movie but it was mostly an excuse to get the cast back together again and took place years after the show finished. I don't really feel that it counts since she died in season 3 and the show had 6 seasons.

Jenny Calendar

Cause of Death: Neck snapped

Propaganda:

Jenny is so beloved to me. She was sent to Sunnydale, California to watch over the vampire that killed her family (Angel), told that he was supposed to suffer for all eternity, but after he saved her life + after she spent some time with him and the people who cared about him, she realized that she'd changed her mind and didn't want anything to do with continuing a mission of vengeance -- especially since Angel's girlfriend Buffy was also the mentee/surrogate daughter of Jenny's boyfriend Giles! Messy! Despite this, when Angel lost his soul and it came out that Jenny had been sent there to watch him, Jenny was immediately blamed, even though she'd had no idea that Angel would turn evil and TOLD everyone as much! She decided to try and find a way to resurrect old magic and give Angel his soul back, and Angel killed her in retaliation. Parts of the fandom talk about Jenny's death like it was necessary/a good thing/a good writing choice, but I don't think it was. Jenny's death is talked about by the showrunners as "proving that anyone could die," and her dead body was placed in Giles's bed, surrounded by red roses, subsequently inspiring him to try to go on a suicide mission and kill Angel. When the kids are looking at a drawing of her dead body, one of them says, "Wow. Poor Giles." Her death is very clearly engineered to raise the stakes by emphasizing how sad it is for Giles to lose her, and before her death, nearly all of her scenes centered around being Giles's girlfriend/love interest. She was never given a chance to develop as a character, and the only backstory they gave her was designed to push her towards death.

Amber Volakis

Cause of Death: Organ failure after bus crash

Propaganda:

This show likes to introduce new casts of supporting characters and cycle through old ones (some of them leave, some of them stay in reduced roles, and sometimes they come back into a main role later, but sometimes they don't) and I do like that. Amber was probably one of the best ones introduced in the row of new characters in Season 4 and even stayed interesting after being fired. I wasn't a big fan of her dating Wilson but it wasn't the worst thing. And then she was killed off. And her death basically only existed to make Wilson sad, or House sad and "crazy", and just. I don't know. It sucked that her death even happened when she had so much more potential as a living character!

[olderthannetfic]

re: 711522392342740992 - wait wait wait, hold on. Do you not think Sherlock was queerbaiting? Or did I misunderstand your response? I honestly thought that that was, like, the _one_ example of a show that everyone agreed was actually queerbait. (I am 30, so, you know, by your metric I Definitely Would Think That. I guess you're right!) (Tumblr is doing something weird so it's possible I've sent this multiple times. I'm very sorry if that's the case!)

--

I think it was a prime example of tumblr being too up its own ass to see reality.

Johnlock was obviously never going to happen, and only a highly selective reading of "But the showrunners lied about other things!" could have ever made it seem like it would. The show was pretty popular overall, meaning that the tumblry factions of its fandom, while loud around here, were not actually that important to the people making it. John and Sherlock's relationship was written how lots of male friendships are written in mainstream media. Ditching a long series of girlfriends for your bro is the default for writers who don't care about women and value male friendship above all. I enjoyed the first couple of seasons, but no new ground was being broken here, to put it mildly. I thought fandom was hallucinating from the beginning, and it only got more ridiculous the longer the show went on.

The one example I can think of where some pro media dangled a gay ship to attract a certain audience, then went back on that promise, is not Teen Wolf but Teen Wolf advertising in the form of that "we're on a ship" video. It was obviously in jest, but they did implicitly go "If you vote for us in this poll, we'll give you sterek". No one with half a brain cell should have believed them, but they did more or less say that.

Sherlock made no such promise and did not appear to be courting a specifically queer or progressive or whatever audience. If you define 'queerbaiting' as "Fans were butthurt when their ship didn't happen", then sure, it can count. If you use a strict definition, then no, absolutely not.

[lol-jackles]

lmao look at this anon (with ZERO RECEIPTS) claim that Jensen made $100,000 an episode of TB!! Omg, maybe if he was A-list but Amazon is notoriously low salaries unless you are way higher tier than Jensen (and he wasn't even in his Amazon deal at that time either):

https://www.tumblr.com/walker-girl/753377150192795648/jensen-ackles-may-have-had-13-mins-but-he-got

Link. Where the hell did the Anon get the idea that Jensen was paid $100K for a recurring gig?????? Amazon is among the very best at undercutting actors’ salaries and undermining SAG-AFTRA’s residual agreements. At best Jensen would have been paid $10K per episode, not including a little extra for doing promotion work.

This Variety article explained why the SAG-AFTRA strike happened in the first place. Excerpts:

"frustrating to actors is the gamesmanship that often ensues with studio business affairs departments"

I shared my experience with business affairs here and here .

"Actors routinely describe having to fight with line producers and showrunners to ensure they’re paid the minimum episodes or weeks, as required by the extent of their role on a show"

Long time readers may remember my posts talking about how line producers undermine actors' salaries, which includes Supernatural's B/C-listers. I'm pretty sure the Teen Wolf fandom had that covered too.

"In streaming they’ve eliminated that [major role] tier of performers. So everybody is just relegated to the floor.”

Meaning everybody, even the top teirs, are forced down to union scale.

[vinnymauro]

13 and 25!

hi tj!! thank you!!

13. worst blorboficiation

steve harrington and evan buckley come to mind first. it's just, people see himbo character and go "oh this is a wittle baby, baby does no wrong" and it's like. these characters have done some serious crimes. (that's sarcasm. they're not literal crimes but they are crimes against women!!!!!!) like steve did fuck all to stop his friends from calling nancy a slut on a fucking marquee for everyone to see. evan buckley trapped his girlfriend by having her move in because he was too much of a child to tell her he kissed someone else. and you know what? i still love these characters bc they're so fucking messy they make mistakes, but they also try to do better. or at least, you fucking hope but sometimes the writing of the show is disappointing. see, the problem that lies with the fans of these two is that you have some fans who are like "hey they did this shitty things. but i like that they've tried to fix it or try to do better going forward" we love fans of growth. and then we have the fans that try to say that these characters haven't done any wrong, or they're perfect, or (god forbid) everyone else around them are so mean to them bc of 1 altercation. like i genuinely do not know where people get "chimney hates buck" narrative. like even if i've missed it and don't know that chimney still hates him/haven't forgiven him, i don't necessarily blame chim. i'd punch buck in that same scenario bc you know love does shit to you. and i'm not going to touch the steve fan specific nancy hate. bc well unfortunately i once fell into that trap and then i watched stranger things 8 times in one year and somehow i gained knowledge. (my sarcasm is so high to say i'm sorry) anyway i'm gonna shut up now. bc i feel myself spiraling and this is why i'm not really in these fandoms. bc i guess i don't watch the same show?

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

that your special ship isn't canon? harassing the writers and the actors and anyone on staff over a fucking ship is weirdo behavior. offense intended. like what happened to sitting in your corner and shipping whatever bc it made you happy? the minute y'all started going to actors and showrunners is the day that shipping became horrendous. like there are so many popular fandom ships that i cannot stand. and i would be mean and i would be like "well this isn't going to happen" and i could probably say that x actor is homophobic. but i won't. bc you're allowed to feel what you feel about a ship. canon literally doesn't mean shit if the writing fucking sucks. and i've stopped watching a lot of shows bc of the writing and the story got stupid. (or they killed off a woman and i felt murderous. looking at you teen wolf. and the vampire diaries season 5. supernatural.) but does that stop me from shipping things from that show? no. to this day i still love my favorite ot3, scallisaac. scott, allison and isaac from teen wolf you would have been famous. i love ships that will never be canon. the rarer the better. learn to add a little fun and whimsy in your life and maybe you'll understand how f/f shippers feel.

make me choose violence

[variousqueerthings]

one day i will actually try to explain how cobra kai functioned as a show, and it will be. difficult. because it's not like merlin was, exactly, and it's not like shows like teen wolf or the 100 were, exactly, and it certainly was (is for one more season) a nostalgia Brand more than it is real storytelling, which became clearer the more the showrunners tried to make it their own thing and revealed that... they're not good writers (i imagine/know that a certain amount was also definitely netflix, but that baby plot as far as i can tell was aaaall them)... but it is, and presumably will be post-s6, because fandom is a different beast to mainstream zeitgeist, genuinely, a really good time for me. i am really happy i watched it, got involved in this particular fan community, got to play with its bones, got introduced to the karate kid, which is just an actually great movie.

but as for the show... how it got so many passionate, wonderfully creative, thoughtful, deeply intelligent people in storytelling histories and themes hooked... i mean, maybe once in awhile a bunch of people will just flock to something that's a real fixer-upper. we'll take it from here guys, good effort, but you'll never get into the really good stuff if your target audience is angry 50+ year old cis straight white american guys online. it's cool, the bones are good, the foundations are solid, and even if your later architectural additions have some glaring flaws, those arches over there are not bad. we've got some hammers and a bunch of lesbians and trans people (+ everyone of any orientation who's horny for terry silver, i appreciate you so much), many of whom are excellent gifmakers, we'll sort this one out.

[leejungjaes]

tbf the "thinking he would go back to the brothel" - thing for me at least it was not trusting the writers / showrunners due to trauma (I've watched TV for too many years) and not understanding the brothel scenes until watch #2

oh yeah, i get it. i GET it.

i've watched supernatural, teen wolf, GOT, and they are the three horsemen of shitty, shitty writing and it's understandable but i think because it's regency inspired like jane austen, p&p all those stories in a form have a happy ending and i know people were massively put off by his persona but it'd be horrendous writing to have colin fall back on the armour he threw away for penelope. it's just so unbelievable.