#tdp discourse Tumblr posts

[thatartiststudios]

Okay so, mini rant here

So, I've been able to spend some time recently rewatching TDP with my family, mostly in prep for season 6.

And because we're really on time we just started season 2 (sarcasm), but anyway. We just finished episode 3, and while we were watching it, my dad had a theory, and me being the nerd that I am asked what it was. The regret was immediate.

He was saying that it's a possibility that they could come back around to Callum/Claudia, if perhaps, he went too far into dark magic, driving everyone else away.

Now look, I'm a huge fan of ship and let ship, (I'm a fan of the canon crack quartet, I know) but like, as someone who's shipped Rayllum pretty early on, and doesn't ship either them with anybody else, I will admit I was kind of offended (Read: repulsed).

And especially during Rayllum month, like, dude

Anyway, and he was really passionate about it too, not that I don't like sharing the fandom with my family and we all enjoy it together, it was just a curve ball I was not expecting.

Like I said, ship whoever you want to ship, but in my personal opinion his idea is blasphemous.

So... yeah, that's how my evening went

[hikaaa-bi]

probably a hot take but i don't really like ezran. i don't dislike him, he just feels like such a 2d character. maybe it's his voice acting (i'm sorry but it's so.. soulless?) or maybe it's the fact that his personality has no depth. like i get it, he's a child but i've seen a lot more interesting characters who were around the same age as him.

[viravosmonarchy]

“aaravos gave humans dark magic in order to make elves and dragons afraid of them being powerful and therefore he is bad” is a terrible take. if the titans are afraid of the weapons humans craft with fire then that is their goddamn problem. destroying lives over the possibility of people becoming as powerful as you is an awful thing to do and the giver of fire is not to blame for that.

i really hope the message of tdp is not actually “powerless people gaining power is bad because it causes panic among the powerful” because i could literally not think of a worse message. heres to hoping

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

if you want a mutually toxic and messed up relationship that isn't romanticized by the narrative:

if you want a relationship where both people make mistakes, but they actually work through their issues together:

if you want an actually good enemies to lovers sapphic ship (with actual fighting and almost killing each other and everything):

you don't have to settle for cat/radora :)

[hoothalcyon]

for the record, as a HUGE fan of Runaan, I am very excited to finally see the consequences of his actions shine through and for him to be the sole breaking point for an otherwise very forgiving and peaceful character!

[venice-1987]

An annoying phenomenon I've noticed

Alternatively: Whatever you do, don't go onto the TDP reddit

(Alternatively, let people ship things)

[moondustgleam]

Everytime Karim comes on screen I legit say "not this bitch baby again". Not even kidding. I have witnesses.

No hate to Karim stans or whatever but I hate him as much as I think he's hot.

[luniviravosshipper]

The most frustrating thing about liking complex and morally grey—maybe leaning a bit more towards morally black—characters is that you have to deal with both sides of people who try to simplify and reduce that character to a few superficial traits that either absolutely detest that character with all their being or worship them wholeheartedly as a result.

You can’t say you like a character because of their flaws or wrongdoings or else the side that hates that character will take your appreciation of those things as you trying to endorse them and will go out of their way to even suggest that those same flaws or wrongdoings must be reflected within your own life. Because how else could you endorse the actions or beliefs of such a terrible character? But the other side will also mistakenly perceive your appreciation of those imperfections in that character as you trying to justify them and will therefore use it to prove their own viewpoint. The viewpoint that the character wasn’t wrong in the first place and shouldn’t be seen as so complicated of a person because, in their mind, they never actually were. Anyone who sees them as complicated is “misunderstanding” or “misinterpreting” them and their intentions since their motivations were quite simple all along.

I, for whatever reason, am not allowed to like a character in media simply because they’re ambiguous. Because their nuance makes them feel more fleshed out, more real.

I must like them only because I see them as good, and I need to be able to argue why I see them as good.

That seems to be the overarching dispute between those who do and those who don’t like those types of characters. At least from what I’ve noticed.

The thing is, this isn’t even a case of whether or not a character is actually good. I mean, you can write one of the most vile, unarguably evil characters ever and they can still be seen as complex. And one character’s complexity shouldn’t undermine how “good” they might actually be.

I feel like people just hate characters that are written to be multi-dimensional because they themselves can’t as easily fit them into their black and white worldview of morality. It’s not so much of a matter of whether or not that character is actually right or good, it’s more about the fact that people can’t seem to be able to distinguish the difference between what makes a character complex and what ideals they uphold.

And, of course, the fact that people seem to think that you can only like things as long as they can fit within their own sense of morals and ethics. You can’t like something or someone that doesn’t reflect your own values according to them. And if you do, well… Apparently that must certainly say something about you.

Though, again, this is all just stuff I’ve picked up on overtime.

[jelzorz]

I for one can't wait to see Ezran lose his shit

[snail-speed]

Looking back on TDP, it's weird that they frame /pol/ Regem as the one singular Xadian that's let their bigotry consume them.

His supremacist beliefs weren't any less extreme before the incident that left him blind, he's not the only Xadian that has strongarmed humans into submission, and he's definitely not the only Xadian that thinks of humans as inherently lesser. If anything, the only thing that separates him from the rest of Xadia's problem with bigotry is that he's saying (and doing) the quiet part out loud.

The show could've pointed this out. How Regem gets frequently regarded as an "extremist" when his views and actions are near identical to that of other powerful elves and dragons. That could've led to really interesting scenes on-screen and served as a decent commentary of how bigotry is talked about IRL. But nope. /pol/ Regem is somehow the worst Xadia has to offer, even though other dragons have been shown mass murdering humans on-screen, and even though elves orchestrate assassination attempts and regularly torture human POWs.

[its-leethee]

back to the garden

for my fellow claudiez enjoyers *blows a kiss*

[thatartiststudios]

I need to settle a debate between my friends (my co-hosts today). We were discussing fallen angel!Callum, and I was saying that one of the main traits of fallen angels is that their wings turned from white to red, and that his wings are red. They clearly disagreed and now I need to settle this. Like, in the art book it shows it as brown but I swear it's red everywhere else. Anyway, don't mind me ranting.

[moonshadow-memes]

Is dark magic an inversion of pure magic?

they should have named it nsfw magic.... get it? because it's not pure 😂

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra. (pt. 2)

mako (the legend of korra) • mixed (japanese and chinese)

min-gi park (infinity train) • korean-canadian

zuko (avatar the last airbender) • japanese

caitlyn kiramman (arcane) • bi-racial (east asian and presumably scottish)

miles morales (spiderverse) • puerto rican, afro-latino

amaya (the dragon prince) • east asian (ambiguous)

marshal lee (fionna and cake) • half-black (technically, marceline is black too but i figured marshal would be considered better representation)

carmen sandiego (carmen sandiego) • hispanic (argentinean-mexican)

toph (avatar the last airbender) • chinese

callum (the dragon prince) • half asian (ambiguous)

[astbestos]

im so deranged rn about a song of love and loss. im so deranged about terry killing ibis.

When Ezran says, "Violence, loss, pain, violence, loss, pain. More violence. Stop! I just want to yell stop. But that's not enough. It won't work. "I think about a positive vision. A faith we can all share, that we might build a future together in hope. A future where we can be safe with each other. But it's not that easy, or simple.

"Because people are still hurting, and they are still angry. We can't ignore that, or pretend it will go away. Somehow, we have to hold it all in our hearts at the same time. We have to acknowledge the weight of the pain and loss, but open our eyes and allow ourselves to hope and maybe forgive and love again." Ezran's entire speech is about how it is impossible to just ignore all the suffering and pain humans and elves have gone through in favor of peace, and it's really interesting to me, especially in the context of my own OC. For context ig Aspen has a lot of conflicting emotions towards violence and death. He is aware that he can hurt people, he is aware that he's hurt people. His complicated feelings towards violence, murder, and death are directly from experience, from having committed those acts with his bare hands, fully aware of himself, and it is specifically him perpetuating the cycle of violence, loss, and pain Ezran speaks about.

It is him taking the role of Claudia but also at the same time, it results in him being unable to take the role of Ibis; being terrified to do anything that would hurt others, even if for the sake of his own protection.

And because of that in a way I think he sort of embodies Terry? Cause Terry, right after killing Ibis for Claudia's sake immediately breaks down, he is clearly guilty and upset, even if it was to proect Claudia, and IT'S SO FUCKING SOMETHING TO ME because Terry and Claudia have these incredibly different feelings and views on violence but they also can boil down to committing the worst atrocities if it is for the sake of those they love, but their feelings during the aftermath are so different. This where I start to think about Aspen, and how honestly for a long time he has viewed himself as a liability but after committing murder, and killing another person for the first time, it got so much worse. And as a result, he cannot bring himself to do violence on another person, to the extent that if somebody is not there to protect him, he will take any attack, no matter who is the perpetrator. In a way, this can also be seen as Aspen perpetuating the cycle of violence Ezran talks about, because he is aware that people other than himself have also been hurt, are also experiencing pain, and he just ignores his own in favor of this positive vision, of having this sort of ingenuine hope because he is so terrified of proving himself to be a liability, but even then, that doesn't really stop anything, does it? Because he isn't enacting diplomacy, he isn't actually trying to stop this violence, he is just sitting there and taking it, and it's really interesting to think about.

[eerna]

I came across one of your posts about tdp (they're great btw I really like reading them) and one of the tags talked about how the show writers treat Callum like a vile character whose done evil things when he hasn't. Can you elaborate on that? And do you think there's a huge difference between on how the show and fandom treat Callum and rayla?

Aww thanks~ Sure, I don't mind elaborating!

So Callum. This show has a problem where the characters have no logical progress, they just do whatever the plot needs them to do, and Callum is a great example of this. Callum is meant to be an awkward average guy who feels like he doesn't belong anywhere. He's the adopted son of the royal family, which means he's not a peasant who is born into a career, but neither is he a real prince, since he is passed over in the inheritance line. He's not good at being a warrior, or a leader, or any other things that might guarantee him a place in court. Things change when he discovers he has a talent for magic, but since he is human and can't connect to an arcanum, he is forced to choose between letting this one useful thing he's good at go, or doing the "evil" dark magic. An interesting character setup: will he go against what he believes is right to realize his full potential? I wonder where this arc will go! The answer is nowhere, he becomes the first human in history to be able to connect to true arcanum magic the way magical creatures do. Okay, so here is his second character setup: the one and only creature in the world who can connect to EVERY arcanum at once! He will spend each season learning how to connect to different arcanums, and through him, we as the audience will understand the world better. That is exciting, as it's something the magical creatures can't do! Except THAT'S also abandoned right away, and his THIRD setup pretends it never happened and we return to a continuation of the first setup: will he join the dark side and become a vessel for the evil guys to use, will he fall into the same trap of "I would do anything for those I love" as the villains? This could be interesting, but it is now over halfway through the story, so the writers have to resort to cheap writing tricks to make the stakes higher and the tension more real. You see, Callum's "downward spiral" relies on him making bad choices for the right reason, but those bad choices aren't truly bad because the writers are scared of writing a hero who messes up for real. Those bad choices are using dark magic twice, but both times he used it out of selflessness, as a personal sacrifice to save Rayla. He used an already dead ingredient to turn some chains into snakes to save his friend... twice. Both times Rayla reacts as if he'd just slaughtered a whole herd of adorable magical baby deer in front of her. The Starscraper elves say his soul is dark and he has been consumed by evil. The only logical reprimand is given by Sol Regem, who just says "I can smell you've done dark magic before" and gets upset bc Sol Regem is a racist asshole character so it makes sense a single whiff of human magic would anger him. But these other characters are meant to be 100% correct in their assessment of Callum's morality. There is no discussion of whether the end justifies the means, there is no nuance or suggestion that maybe a dead bug is worth saving a life, Callum has done something objectively wrong and should never repeat it again. Here it all dissolves into the age old "is dark magic as presented in TDP morally ok" discourse, which I won't rehash here bc it is well discussed and the TL;DR is: no, TDP didn't do a good job setting dark magic up as an inflexible evil, but the story still acts as if it is one. And it is dumb, because Callum doesn't need to do dark magic to make mistakes! Several times throughout the season I thought they were gonna put him at odds with the rest of the cast, and maybe mess up and "fall into darkness" that way. For example, I thought that when everyone disagreed with him on the topic of destroying Aaravos' prison, he was going to defy everyone out of paranoia (since he is the most sensitive one about this subject) and accidently cause Aaravos' escape that way. But no, they don't even argue over it before finding a solution that makes everyone happy and it turns out that Aaravos was freed by a series of contrivances that tell us nothing new or interesting about any character involved in it, which is CLEARLY a much better story.

This third storyline gets even more muddled by Callum choosing to do the Starscraper Morality Challenge or whatever it's called to try and fix the damage dark magic did to his soul. Okay, so we've established that Callum's love for Rayla makes him act in morally questionable ways, which led to his soul deteriorating, and now this ritual will help him find his way back from it. And so the ritual reveals that he can redeem himself if he focuses on... wait. Am I reading this right? The answer to his issues is RAYLA????? So this means that somehow, loving Rayla is both the reason for his evil deeds, and a way for him not to do evil deeds??? I suppose the story could be saying that loving Rayla doesn't mean doing whatever it takes to save her, but listening to her advice and trusting her when she says she doesn't want to be saved by dark magic, but that is just such a dumb character arc that isn't about Callum or his character arc in the least. His way to deal with his issues has nothing to do with his realizing his potential, it has nothing to do with his journey of connecting to the arcanums. It is a "man needs a woman to act normal" story, and that is just plain dumb and boring and no proper character arc.

And here we transition into your second question. I am not sure what exactly you meant, so feel free to clarify, but I will do my best to answer as is. I think that Rayla and Callum are treated by the fandom EXACTLY the same way as by the show, but sadly this means they suck (it is no secret I was super duper into shipping them once upon a time, so no one is allowed to call me a hater over this opinion). The first two seasons were fine, but from s3 onwards their relationship also faces a lack of a proper arc. In the beginning it seemed like the emotional, gentle Callum was going to de-radicalize the cold, emotionally constipated Rayla and teach her the joys of having people who care for her as a person and not just a weapon. However, this was quickly abandoned for reasons listed in my Runaan family post - Rayla needed a quick escape from her emotional issues to remove any bad parenting responsibility from Runaan and Ethari's backs. From then on their writing problems are a mix of the previously mentioned "characters doing what the plot needs them to do" issue and playing into fan shipping expectations. And thus when they start dating in s3 it is in the blandest, most boring way possible. They are super happy together, they have no friction, Rayla is suddenly more than happy to be emotionally open. Then the plot needs them separated, so she remembers she is supposed to have emotional issues and leaves. Then the plot needs them back together so they start dating. None of this is supported by a logical arc. S3 and onwards reads like a fanfic in the most negative way possible. The "frozen ship" monologue from s6 made me feel like my brain was actively trying to escape my skull, so I KNOW the crew working on the show is aware of the fan perception and are actively playing into them on purpose. Fan tropes are perfect in the context of fanworks, but they also make canon material worse.

Whew. This was long. But Yeah that's basically what I have to say about that.