#TDP fandom critical

[tategaminu]

I just wanna say‚ I apologize if I have come as too negative about the season or anything? I have only talked about one thing and thats part of me being scared about Arc 3 not happening.

That being said‚ people please tag your stuff as #tdp critical. Not everyone wants to see negativity and while I do understand valid takes I gotta say that's very different from calling the show trash or shitting on it (I had to see this kind of comments on Twitter)

The anxiety of Arc 3 not happening is being paired with people insulting the show. Please be a lil nice‚ tag properly. Try to give constructive criticism without dropping insults

[venice-1987]

An annoying phenomenon I've noticed

Alternatively: Whatever you do, don't go onto the TDP reddit

(Alternatively, let people ship things)

[ladyandherbooks]

I think that the idea that TDP has to have a singular main character has really negatively impacted the fandom. It's an ensemble cast with multiple main characters, it doesn't need or require this debate, and in fact, sometimes shows don't need 1 main character.

And since this started, we've seen a very vocal part of the fandom decide that Callum is the main character we've seen this view change how people engage with the show and within the fandom.

The most infamous victim of this is Rayla who gets relegated to MC's love interest who bounces between being the worst when she makes mistakes that hurt Callum or is a timid wallflower who needs Callum to be her Knight who saves her or stands up to her family for her because she can't (she can and has). It's such a deliberate misunderstanding and misrepresentation of who Rayla actually is and shows that people don't actually see her a complicated person, they see her as a prop or a prize.

And it also probably explains why some fans also hate Rayla's family and the idea of them getting anymore screen time. If they don't see Rayla as her own character then they don't see the point of Rayla having important relationships outside of Callum. Because having those relationships will detract from her romantic relationship with Callum because she's only truly Callum's love interest to them.

I keep to my nicely curated Ruthari/Moon fam bubble so I don't see or hear about much of this for other characters or story arcs but I wouldn't be surprised if it has or is happening to other parts of the fandom too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was or had.

[luniviravosshipper]

You know what? I know that The Dragon Prince has a lot of flaws, (trust me, I complain a lot about them myself,) but it is genuinely so annoying to see people complain about the supposed lack of nuance and underlying messages in the show when they deliberately try to ignore them. People will literally take things completely at face value and only examine the details in this series on a surface level and then say dumb shit like “thEy MaKE eVErYthIng OUt tO Be BlaCk aNd wHiTE”. Like, of course it’s going to seem that way to you when you’re going out of your way to only try to see everything in the series as being black and white.

As much as I believe that many of the criticisms and critiques TDP receives are absolutely valid, the amount of discourse in this fandom over the same recycled rhetoric used against TDP is astonishingly ridiculous. Like, we should have already gone over this a thousand times. I don’t know how you guys are still so set in your misguided views of this show after 6 to 7 years and 6 seasons. I’m nearly 100% convinced that you guys are just purposely trying to misinterpret the themes of this series to fit your own narrative of how this series has apparently misrepresented the ideas that you personally wish it could portray. Even if those ideas aren’t actually good or make sense for the real focus points and intended takeaways. (Ahem. I’m looking at you guys on the TDP subreddit who somehow use the fact that TDP has trouble depicting the implied historical prejudice the elves have shown towards the humans and how unjust that is as a justification for how dark magic is actually “good” and totally “valid” for the humans to use against the elves in retaliation.)

I’m sorry that this might seem rather harsh. Again, I think a lot of the complaints that have been made already have plenty of value and reasoning behind them. But it is still frustrating to see just so many of the same complaints being made over and over again and not having anyone question their own takes and how there’s a chance that they might be inherently biased.

[gjsxj0]

the dragon prince's last season was below mediocre, the finale was terrible and the major reveal was the worst thing i have ever witnessed. this post is long and strongly worded and typed up at midnight.

harrow being in pip was predicted since s1. everyone knew because they laid it out clear as day. it was intentionally set up and like all good bits of writing, the audience sees it and knows what is coming up.

why 6+ years into tdp's lifecycle was it made canon. after years of not answering it or just giving "half truths" (aaravos much?) all to just say "screw the audience" and make it confirmed in a scene that has its own issues and it was AFTER A TWO YEAR TIME SKIP.

not only that, it ruins harrow's and viren's relationship to such a degree i can only assume the creators just hated these two in the end. harrow being in pip implies:

viren intentionally did it without harrow's consent, costing harrow his autonomy whilst also making viren never actually caring about harrow in the end (which the canon does not support, i have eyes and reading comprehension). this begs the question: HOW COULD VIREN NOT HAVE UNFINISHED BUSINESS aka show up in the inbetween? harrow was the one relationship he cherished and then they pull this stunt and said "actually no viren is terrible even tho he DIED saving a kingdom that never deserved him."

viren did it and harrow WANTED it to happen which makes harrow look even WORSE than he was already set up to be. a king who struggles with the responsibilities and weight of his crown and is tired of these issues that he... kind of lets happen. it was interesting to see where it goes but wow this makes harrow an asshole if he just flew out of that window and did NOT come back to katolis for over 2 years.

viren... didn't?? do it??? which doesn't make sense because this show never has a mage unless its callum or its for plot convenience (and they die or are a one off character) and we are just back at square one. if they go this route, i will have to applaud the audacity for them thinking their audience is really that stupid.

not to mention the whole "black person spends a good chunk of time in an animal form" trope, which they should have just dealt with early on.

pip theory being canon in a two year time skip... let's pretend i accept this for a second:

they said arc 3 would be another time skip. 7-12 years possible. what the fuck. so harrow is never coming back (he said fuck katolis or he is DEAD EITHER WAY) or its gonna be relegated to a graphic novel or book (if they even complete the draft in time for publication YEAH WE KNOW WHY BOOK 3 NEVER HAPPENED). and even then. the original 2 year time skip. there is not going to be any actual explanation for it just like there was no good reason for rayla to leave callum bc there will be nothing to show for it.

they really couldn't just let this one theory never get addressed. it could have been a poorly done red herring but no. this is a massive fuck you to everyone that watched the show since day 1.

that interview on cartoon universe's youtube page where they just admitted they were tired of being asked where harrow was for so long they just did it. it was intentional and it was to spit in our faces.

their relationship means barely anything now, its too late in the story for them to fix this NOT LIKE THIS SHOW COMMITS TO ANYTHING ANYWAY and i hope aaron ehasz and justin richmond never write another cartoon again.

[sarasade]

Since I've been complaining about YouTube criticism a lot lately here is some positivity for a change: Here are some of my fave TDP YouTube videos. These creators would probably appreciate getting more eyeballs on their work. (listed from newest to oldest):

The Genius of the Dragon Prince

by wordswith dragons

A GREAT analysis of the the over all themes of TDP with an unique and well thought out perspective.

Viren’s Dream Analyzed: Claudia Witnessed Viren Seal Kapp’Ar - The Dragon Prince Theory

by Angeles Lunamoth

a really fun & cute theory channel. I'm not a lore person so I don't know if the theories are correct per se but speculation is fun anyway. (Also it's funny to me that this person didn't know what Twin Peaks is. Like yeah it's not the most relevant thing to reference.)

The Dragon Prince Is an Amazing Mess.

by XeroLmao

Don't let the title fool you it's mostly a very positive and humorous video. This is the most genuinely funny long-form TDP commentary video I've seen so far.

The Music of The Dragon Prince - Season 1 (themes & analysis) &

The Dragon Prince Music Analysis - S2 and S3

by Spelonberry

As someone who doesn't get music at all I didn't expect to like these videos this much! It's rare to see someone analyse a non-musical show's OST in such detail. it made me appreciate TDP's music even more. I can't believe I didn't notice that the Mirror theme/Aaravos' theme sounded so diffenrent because it's the only song in the OST that has piano in it.

The Dragon Prince: Why Fans Love Aaravos But Hate Viren

by Cartoon Junkies

the title made me giggle :)

How The Dragon Prince Captures the Spirit of ATLA

by Mother's Basement

A great video essay about the themes of grief and death in TDP. Once again a very unique perspective to analyse the show from. It's just so satisfying when someone puts together a really good argument, you know? I'm kind of tired of the ATLA comparisons after hearing them for over 5 years though. TDP itself really leans into them so what can you do.

----

I love VogJam too but he's VERY critical so his channel might not be for everyone. I'll gladly listen to any negative crit as long as the person doing it is funny and he's pretty damn hilarious. I don't mind hearing harsh critique of TDP at all like people do make good points.

[fujosh1dreamer]

If I have to look at one more crappy tier list on tdp twitter I'm gonna lose my mind.

Then they have the audacity to complain when someone doesn't agree with them. Like hello you're expressing your opinion on the internet.

If you're gonna cry about people not agreeing then don't post about it.

This Fandom worsens by the day.

[lawchan89]

If you continuously lobby character criticism against female and dark-skinned characters’ arcs while giving lighter-skinned characters less flack for their arcs, this goes far beyond you just “having an opinion.”

This is actively harmful, and you need to take several steps back and ask yourself why you’ve fallen into this pattern

[shadelorde]

it’s actually really fascinating watching the difference in reactions I get to certain posts in the ATLA fandom vs other fandoms.

Like, it feels like people are actively hunting you down in the ATLA fandom. Criticism of something in the show or the fandom either blows up among people who agree with you or gets immediately reactionary defensiveness.

But in other fandoms I’m in (I’m thinking specifically portal and f&c and tdp)? No one cares. No one does anything. I say something 90% of the fandom disagrees with and I get a few likes and maybe a reblog and that’s it.

It really feels like the ATLA fandom loves to circulate critical or angry posts while my other fandoms love to circulate things I enjoy or metas I make.

[could-they-be-a-pro-wrestler]

THIS WEEK’S EPISODE OF NXTB (Next X-Treme Tumblr Blorbo)

KEYLETH NEEDS TO VENT

Previously, Keyleth (Vox Machina) lost to Raven (Teen Titans) when Jinx (Teen Titans) hit her when the referee wasn’t watching. Although she’s lost before, this loss was especially annoying since she previously got a win over the Goth Girl Alliance.

To distract herself from this loss, she asks to be put in a match with any opponent. The unnamed commissioner decided to appease her by teaming her up with Aang (Avatar the Last Airbender). Aang has been looking for a tag partner against his current opponents, Claudia and Aaravos (The Dragon Prince). He would ask Katara, but Katara is too busy right now being one-half of the Women’s Tag Team Champions.

Keyleth accepts the match, but only because she wants to vent her frustrations out on Claudia and Aaravos…

[t-n-c]

@saraptor

"Yeah I remember getting this vibe (as in it hit me like a truck) when Aaravos made that move on the Sunfire Queen, and then again with his comment to Zubeia. He's slimy in a way that's deeply uncomfortable. I always thought I was just looking into it too much tho (or being overly sensitive.) Like, i was making a load of jokes about sparklepuff but the "our child" comments kind of drive it home ajdhwhsjfhs"

I don't think you were looking too much into it or being overly sensitive. Further, I agree with you, Aaravos is slimy in those scenes--and that's one of the problems I have with him.

To be clear, him being slimy it's necessarily an issue for me by itself (there are plenty of good villains who're depicted as creeps, after all). My problem lies with the impression that we as the audience were supposed to see those scenes as him being "Cool, Powerful, and Sexy" and not anything negative--something that doesn't really fit if the writers' goal is to tell a complex and progressive story.

Another issue I have is that it feels like his sleaziness makes up his whole personality at this point. I can think of only two instances in the show where he seemed to express genuine, non-schemey emotions (i.e. the confusion he had when he admitted to Viren he didn't know where he was imprisoned and the rage he showed when he recounted to Viren how Avizandum/Thunder helped imprison him). Every other time he's present he's depicted as a Smirking Seductor (TM) or The Great Evil (TM)--neither of which are bad if you're writing a simple good vs evil story, but tdp keeps trying to be nuanced so having that kind of villain doesn't really work.

More tdp s5 spoilers under the cut

(TW: acts of coercion/violation will be mentioned)

With how imbalanced their relationship is and my prior concerns regarding Aaravos' history of coercive/violating behavior towards Viren, Sir Sparklepuff being established as Viren and Aaravos's child makes me reeeeeally uncomfortable.

[venice-1987]

I feel like Ezran would get a lot more grace within the show and the fandom both if they actually leaned into the fact that this is a terrified and angry 12 year old stressed out about how he is going to protect his kingdom that he is simultaneously grieving. Emphasis on terrified.

He could advocate for peace easily from a peaceful throne. That is being tested, and we did get quiet moments between king Ezran and Queen Aanya talking about ruling, but I think he could have also benefitted from quiet moments between kid Ezran and his adult support system (Soren and Corvus).

I also think this would have made the Harrow Bird reveal a bit more impactful. There are two facets to Ezran: him as a king, and him as a kid, which conflict so heavily. Him being tested like this and realizing that Soren was right in saying he was too young for this, and that there is a solution.

[its-kapi-wara]

"Change my mind, I dare you"

I say this from the bottom of my heart: if the TDP Fandom is mature and smart enough to understand the symbolism, parallels and themes of the series, then they should be mature enough to know how to react to things not going according to their expectations.

Of course you may feel upset, that's okay; but please be careful about what you say or how you say it. There is already so much toxicity in many other spaces on the Internet, there's no need to make it grow in a space that should be fun for everyone, right?

And I'm not trying to attack anyone with this post. I just think that certain comments and rudeness disguised as criticism are horrible things to cultivate. So, please, at least try to make your criticisms sensible, and to convey what you felt (whether good or bad) in a way that we can keep this a pleasant environment for everyone!

[thrandilf]

#genuinely i think abt how dragon prince would have reigned surpreme over tumblr had this come out like 5 years ago idk like#there is no reason for dragon prince to have a comparatively small fandom when looking at the media it often gets compared to#and that it has canon whatever you wanna call This in it LMAO LIKE. WE HAVE SO MUCH QUEER REP FUN EXCELLENT WRITING AND YET lmao you're so right. truly a distortion in the fabric of the universe

LIKE LITERALLY IT'S SO?????

I feel like any time someone talks about wanting media with grey morality, nuance, explicit LGBT rep, disabled characters, fantasy that isn't White People Central- like all of that is found in The Dragon Prince and it knocks it out of the park. We have 5 seasons, it's confirmed to finish its run of 7 seasons and we're getting some spinoff media too like the video game and who knows what else, and I'm like. There are so many people I feel who would go WILD for this but

Even its connection with ATLA (which doesn't define TDP at all but I recognize it's some of what gets some people's foot in the door) doesn't seem to have pulled Big Fandom back in

The tumblr exodus really did damage plus the production hiatus seemed to land at such a time that the show is SUPERB better than it ever was before and it's always been good but fandom seems so much smaller than it used to be

I know TDP gets critical acclaim and we reach global Top 10 when new stuff drops but

As far as online fandom presence goes

Man. It's gotta be timing or something because it's so weird to me that there's like. Not even 1k fics on AO3 tagged Aaravos. The most popular TDP posts made nowadays peak at 4k MAX while sometimes I see art from 2019 that managed 30k notes like where is everyone -sobs-

I do love this fandom but I can't believe it isn't THE big thing I genuinely don't know why except timing and online spaces being hostile to fandom? Idk

[raayllum]

It's hard to tell because it's only been some posts but you sound somewhat frustrated with pre-season discussions happening elsewhere for The Dragon Prince? In any case, I thought you might appreciate the note that some people certifiably do like Rayla and Callum as characters perfectly well (I know I do at least and have since the start)?

I'm sure you're aware of it already but it felt somewhat like it'd help you not feel like you're typing into a void of dissent for enjoying them and the show concurrently? Even if I'd disliked the time skip in some capacities (I didn't particularly, I thought Rayla had good instincts wanting proof of death etc she just perhaps should have taken more backup for higher success chances if at all possible) Stella's introduction would have won me over entirely anyway.

There's no shame in being easily charmed by adorable animal characters, after all! She really is cute and also useful in limited capacities, like Bait.

If you wanted an actual ask with the above I suppose that I'm intrigued how similarly you thought Bait and Stella functioned as extended powers/company of their respective people and in the group?

Mostly on twitter (which is a reason to stay off twitter) but, in all honesty, it's mostly because it's annoying to see people use ship names or main tags for their complaining (I have "tdp critical" blacklisted or whatever for a reason y'know). Like as someone who truly deeply loves every character and every part of the show, when Claudia or Terry or Aaravos or anyone else gets promo I'm thrilled and intrigued and theorizing. And there's a minimal but loud portion(s) of the fandom who are either currently expressing (or have a track record) of annoyance when Callum and Rayla, as main characters and as the show's consistently most developed dynamic (which, I want to stress, has been the case even in s1 and s2) dare to be main characters and have marketing, there's an uproar of complaining. (Again, not the majority, but still baffles me that it exists at all.)

It'd be like if I complained about ATLA being primarily about Aang, its main character, for the majority of the show's run because I thought Toph needed more of a character arc (she's the least developed of the gaang bc she comes in s2 and has a general self-acceptance arc that doesn't need a ton of steps, for ex).

Sometimes favourite characters are there to have minimal screentime, execute their story purpose, and highlight other characters' arcs. The divide between characters where that's generally understood (Gren, Lain, Tiadrin, Opeli) vs characters where it's not (Aaravos in S4/S5, Runaan) again irks me because of the inconsistency, and therefore bias accordingly affecting judgement. Which maybe isn't fair - most people, myself included, are in fandom as a hobby, and for some people that means not evaluating their biases and not wanting to adjust their expectations; I just can't imagine doing anything else

I think Bait mostly serves as emotional support to Ezran and a lil guy to Talk to for Callum (2x05, 4x02) when a human character wouldn't quite make sense or is gone (Rayla is his usual confidant, for example). Stella is more interesting to me from a structure standpoint as 1) a character connected to the Star arcanum who thus far doesn't really need to be, so I'm curious there and 2) a juxtaposition to post-timeskip Rayla's "we can't save everyone" that her big heart and soft insides is still there, and still something worth listening to.

[tdp-fandom]

TDP SHIPPING POLL!

🔴CLICK HERE TO VOTE🔴 (Please share for more accurate results)

Hello and welcome to the second TDP Shipping Poll! It’s an online survey that will help us understand the shipping preferences of our fandom. I ran the first poll in 2020 after season 3 and now that season 5 is approaching, I decided it was time to run a new one. Two new ones, actually, as I would like to run one poll before and one - after the upcoming and later compare the results. 

So let’s start with this one. The poll will run from June 1st to July 1st. I’m leaving the exact hours vague because I might need an extra hour or two to finish things up. I also leave myself the right to extend the poll if such need arises (e.g. I am physically unable to close the poll or the number of votes is very low)

More information is on the poll itself and under cut

How does this work?

The poll consists of three main parts: general questions, opinions about specific ships and the final wrap up. The general section covers basic demographic information as well as your shipping preferences. The questions about specific ships are divided into 6 categories to make the lists more manageable. Please note that the 6th category is dedicated to controversial ships - adult/minor, incest and ships with animals. This category will be hidden and you will be able to see it if you choose to.

Which ships are included?

Basically, all ships I've encountered online as well as the ships that people asked me to add, with the only exception being ships with the characters from Tales of Xadia (at least for now). If a ship you like wasn't included, you can submit it manually at the end of the poll and I will include it in the next poll.

Why were problematic ships included?

They are part of our fandom's shipping preferences and without them the picture would be incomplete. As mentioned before, they are hidden and you won't accidentally see them.

However, it is worth pointing out that I only consider adult/minor, incest and animal ships to be problematic. The following may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they're perfectly normal ships: - young adult x late teen ships where the age difference between the young adult and the teen is 5 years or less;

- older adult x young adult ships no matter the age gap. Both characters are adults;

- human/dragon or elf/dragon ships when both characters are adults.

Please remember that just because something squicks you out, doesn't mean it's inherently problematic.

Where will the results be posted?

The results will be published on twitter, tumblr, TDP subreddit and dreamwidth. I will publish the results bit by bit, because there are a lot of different categories to work through.

Have any questions?

Feel free to DM me on the mentioned platforms. I also accept constructive criticism!