#tdp salt

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

that moment when your complex antagonist is starting to make too much sense so you twist the narrative or make them do something truly vile out of nowhere, so that the audience doesn't begin questioning your morals.

[madou-dilou]

I am sorry but why did Lissa refuse to give her tears to save Soren. What mother does that

I get the whole "dark magic leads you to see animals and people as mere resources, to break them down into components to exploit and denying by this the inherent value of all lives" but it's just tears. It's not like he had to beat her to the tears, she was already crying all the time because their child was dying. I genuinely don't get why Viren is the villain here. He only had to pull her hair to get her tears into the vial, she already was crying.

[bibibbon]

Hey. I want to ask is it weird to create a oc just for the sake to make someone who love Izuku so much they take his responsibility from him as being all might successor. There is a whole plot reason why OC is doing it not just for love but I am a huge sucker for hero being saved metaphorically and literally by their love interest.

Nothing makes me happy to see a self sacrificing hero being saved by one person who love them so much they rather change the fate of the world themselves if it mean to let the hero be return to bliss.

Like I say, it is your rewrite, so do what you want with it!!!

I don't think it's a bad thing to create a character for another character. I mean, horikoshi did it with Toga and ochako, didn't he?

However, it very much depends on your execution.

For example, I think the execution of toga and ochako in this sense is okay. It had some problems like how the ship itself revolved around a male character or other aspects of the two characters really lacking a lot of parallels between each other.

I have talked about my opinions on this pairing, and honestly, it could have worked had it been executed differently.

Another example of a writer creating a character for another character is the dragon prince. This, in my opinion, can be seen with claudia and Terry.

This is definitely my opinion, but from what I have seen and heard, the dragon prince writers were thinking of giving claudia a romantic partner early on in the series. Some speculate that it was supposed to be the protagonist callum, but it ended up being a character introduced in season 4 called Terry.

A few minority of people hold onto the belief that callum was supposed to initially be Claudia's love interest for a huge number of reasons, one of them being Terry being quite similar to arc 1 callum especially in mannerisms.

An example is the "trees to meet you" line.

Now, the problem isn't that Terry may have been created for this reason but how his character was used.

Terry, for the most part in the series, is literally just Claudia's boyfriend. That's exactly what he is in the series. He kills for claudia. He watches claudia kill for her father, and he is the comedic relief in his group.

He is a one-note character, and while I don't think it was intentional, it is true. Due to the lack of information and arc for Terry as a character, he ends up being a plot device type of character.

From what we know of Terry, which is implied in season 4, the earth blood elves didn't accept him for being trans so it does explain why he isn't connected to them or why he doesn't mention them much as that must of been scaring for him.

I would assume that the earthblood elves abandoned Terry and some time during the two years that viren was dead and Terry was stranded alone without anyone claudia and Terry found each other. Both alone and desperate for some source of interaction and companionship, they quickly became boyfriend and girlfriend.

For Terry, claudia is everything he has. She is his only companion, and in a way, she became something he depended on during the dark (his light in the darkness, who knows 🤷‍♀️). The same thing barely applies to claudia herself as her mission was focused mainly on viren and resurrecting her father no matter what it took.

Claudia DOES love Terry, yet their relationship is toxic at that. From what we see in season 4, claudia is seen to hold the type of belief that all elves are bad and that Terry is "one of the good ones."

Now obviously mixed with Claudia's own experiences pre season 4 with an elf being the one that is responsible for her father's death or an elf being responsible for king harrows death, that combined with what she previously was told about elves and what aaravos told her about elves and dragons it is understandable that she would develop the idea that "ALL elves and dragons are evil until proven otherwise."

While I did say it and will say it again claudia does love Terry yet due to the way she was taught how to love which in season 6 she claims that it was her father viren who taught her how to love (not a good look)we can come to understand that her love can have quite the toxic nature to it.

It is after all her feelings of helplessness that caused her to abandon Terry because she didn't want anyone she loved to abandon her again, so he chose to abandon him.

Now, enough talking about claudia going back to Terry, he is someone who is seen to have quite the optimistic outlook in things. While his love for claudia and overdependence on her (to a certain extent) is toxic that it's caused him to do actions such as killing ibis and watching sir sparklespuff be killed which he is seen to actively show signs of remorse about. Terry still seems to love claudia. He accepts her for who she is, and a part of this can definitely be linked to his trauma surrounding rejection from the earthblood elves (which I wish was explored more, we need a Terry backstory!!)

Now, in season 6, we see Terry actively oppose aaravos, which is definitely going to cause a strain on both his and Claudia's relationship. I definitely see Terry leaving, which would be a huge moment for his character, but due to the lack of information and backstory for him pre season 4, I fear that it may be underwhelming.

I guess what I wanted to say from this huge ramble is if you are going to make a character to be the other half or to be there primarily for another character please give both characters equal level of nuance and don't make them one noted.

[hikaaa-bi]

probably a hot take but i don't really like ezran. i don't dislike him, he just feels like such a 2d character. maybe it's his voice acting (i'm sorry but it's so.. soulless?) or maybe it's the fact that his personality has no depth. like i get it, he's a child but i've seen a lot more interesting characters who were around the same age as him.

[cometchasr]

when you realise elarion probably had so many natural disasters. like, who chose this place.

anyways it does help the plot with how humans understand suffering so deeply... even in the midst of their golden age, they always had earthquakes, floods... they always suffered, but they always had hope.

they always rebuilt, and moved on.

now, if only the writers hadn't thrown away the nuance of dark magic and the reparation that xadia would need to give (the humans too, but mostly xadia). there could have been so much plot with ezran's rule being challenged in the 2 years and how it affected the west. ezran's rule being challenged when he's away. general salt amongst the humans over how ezran just tries to smooth everything over and doesn't care about ruling, but (more importantly), doesn't pressure xadia to meet up in the center. no, he just lets them stay where they are and make no change. i would assume the whole lux aurea situation would cause outrage, actually, and that in the west there would be riots. maybe opelli would be forced to take a more hostile stance to xadia and a rising of tensions would occur (not war; they've had enough of that shit. just heightened hostilities).

but that's not going to happen because the writers threw away all the nuance, ezran is a good ruler and xadia doesnt need to change to be forgiven, apparently.

[newtwithinternet]

Do you think that Opeli was trying to get rid of Ezran because he was a bad king?

i think it's a nice idea to think about and a good start point to play with Opeli's character, but i personally don't headcanon it as her motif. From my perspective she just have her mind so much in the box of her rules and laws that she won't be able to even think about *gasp* getting rid of The Lawful King. Have him away for his own safety in case of riots or other troubles because of, you know, dragons in Katolis, seems more in character for her.

More than that, she doesn't seem to reject Ez's "being nice towards Xadia" basis, it's more like she's concerned about how he handles it without thinking it through. And since i'm pretty sure she already handles most part of ruling the kingdom, this "how" problem is totally in her area of power to solve, so she have no reason to want to get rid of Ez. He seemed apathetic towards most things that aren't his basis earlier, so he'll probably just agree with what she suggests.

[void-tiger]

I know it’s a month since you left the post but as far as returning to TDP, I wouldn’t bother. The writing has arguably gotten worse, whole lot of retcons, still a lot of tonal dissonance and some really troubling messaging that is probably both unintentional and will remain unaddressed. It’s up to you but the show definitely hasn’t gotten better.

Yeahhh that’s essentially why I left after s3, I think? The one that vaporized the fire elf’s sister for shits&giggles—when I say that TDP disturbed me more than actual MA-rated animation? That’s what I’m referring to.

And watsonian vs doyalist…

I was warned watching that season about the shitshow going on behind the curtains. I watched it, anyway, for the sake of the crew who worked on it. And…sure. Visually it was beautiful, the voice actors are giving good performances, but the writing? Yeah. Holy Watsonian clusterfuck inconsistencies, batman! Aaaaand…doyalist issues definitely broke containment.

Anyway. Sounds like I got out of the fandom just in time. As adorable and heart-good Amaya’s and Janai’s relationship is (and holy crap! They’re animating sign!!) it just. It doesn’t make up for the rest of what’s going on, and the storytelling is just getting progressively convoluted and unenjoyable “messaging issues aside” for me. So…yeah. Guess I’ll cut my losses.

And work on writing my own queer, poc, and disability inclusive story when I’m feeling better sometime in a sparkling future where my own health is better managed. Can’t promise I won’t kill anyone off, buuut I’m too weary for tragedy, and especially deaths and misery that are disproportionately women (and in TDP’s case? Queer and/or WoC.)

[madou-dilou]

The Dragon Prince in a nutshell

can we stop doing this trope

[raylasgf]

“i hate rayla in arc 2 she’s not as badass as she was before, they turned her soft”

rayla in arc 1:

she’s always been unserious some of you are just dumb

[madou-dilou]

If Dark magic is set up to be morally wrong no matter what, we ought to be shown that anything is better than using it.

That Viren *should* have let Soren and the hundreds of thousands of people die starving, that Callum *should* have let Pyrrha and Rayla and Soren and himself and Ezran and Zym be tortured.

The characters must choose to not use it knowing what horrible consequences this choice will bring, and these horrible consequences have to actually happen and have dreadful long term repercussions, and NOT to be Deus-ex-machinaed away.

So no new Arcanum somehow unlocked or dragon somehow showing up just in the right time or anything like it. Just the plain consequences, however horrible.

The closest we got was Harrow's death way back in season one, and even it's consequences were Deus-ex-machinaed via the egg and the frankly insane gamble that Zubeia would agree to stop the war to thank the protagonists.

So far, every time someone used it, it was framed as wrong and unjustifiable no matter the circumstances.

So, okay.

Show us why not using it to save your kid, your friends, your people, and let all of them die, is actually the right thing to do, the right, moral, "no shortcut" path.

[bibibbon]

Basically, Megatron in Earthspark is a diet coke version post redemption Endeavor. And as a cherry on top, the humans still angry at the destruction that the bot's are still causing from their battles, the high casualty numbers of human lives lost from the bots' war, and the harassment from the Decepticons are painted as prejudice for wanting these highly advanced, giant robots of mass destruction to go home! Also, the show treats Optimus Prime the way the fandom treats All Might. 3/5

Part 1 part 2

Wow ok I thought it couldn't get worse but it just did. So the show goes out of its way to try and say that the humans being rightfully angry about what decepticons did is painted as the victims being in the wrong and wrongfully discriminating against the decepticons. Yeah yikes however this does sound vaguely similar to the dragon prince and the lack of proper criticism towards the elves and dragons actions and how the humans are demonised a whole lot more.

It feels like a cheap and unequal bit of both sides are wrong but you can kinda tell that one side is worse than the other and the narrative never tries to address that (properly that is)

I don't really know who Optimus prime is but from the description of him being treated as fanon all might than Iam assuming that he gets over hated by the fandom for reasons that aren't really his fault. I mean this because while the fandom can hate on all might and bash him too harshly I still do think that all might is an incredibly flawed character and it still bugs me that the manga wouldn't actually delve into that or any other interesting part of his character instead we get the whole iron might ordeal.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

if you want a mutually toxic and messed up relationship that isn't romanticized by the narrative:

if you want a relationship where both people make mistakes, but they actually work through their issues together:

if you want an actually good enemies to lovers sapphic ship (with actual fighting and almost killing each other and everything):

you don't have to settle for cat/radora :)

[lifblogs]

Some people for some reason: Rayla so wasn't Callum's one deep truth. I know because the creators said so during a period where they were trying to save us from getting spoilers. The art:

[rayllurn]

Me screaming at tdp YouTube like, “Rayllum never broke up!! They never broke up! They never broke up!!” *is getting dragged away* “Listen me! They never broke up! They never bro-“

Seriously every time I hear someone say they broke up I lose brain cells. She left because she loved him so much she thought it was the only way to keep him safe.

Even Callum acknowledges this!!

Lujanne: “So this is a thing again? You two?”

Callum: “It always was.”

It always was!!! They never STOPPED being a thing, from their perspectives.

And I get that there’s a lot of feelings about Through the Moon and that it should have been incorporated into the actual show (and I agree with that to some degree) but like…where would have they put it? It doesn’t fit in season 3…it would be an anticlimactic tag on to the big finale. It would be weird to start season 4 with it and then have a two year time skip between episodes 1 and 2. It just doesn’t fit in the canon storyline. The only thing I can think of is that they maybe could’ve imported more pieces of it as flashbacks (I would have preferred this I think, but this is the story the creators gave us and I love it regardless!!!).

[madou-dilou]

The thing is, TDP tries to tip the scales to something more nuanced. Kimdael is a literal blood-thirsty moonshadow elf. Finnegrin is obsessed with control and uses Primal Magic to torture protagonists, never being presented as someone we should sympathise for.

In the previous seasons, we've had Rex Igneous saying Avizandum enjoyed slaughtering humans. We've had Keesha calling them disgusting. We've had Sol Regem calling them lesser beings before burning an entire city.

But this season is the first time the protagonists are confronted with a monsterous primal mage -and therefore, an inherently bad use of primal magic as one spell freezes blood, torturing its victim.

We also have seen examples of Dark magic being used for good : Viren saving Soren, Claudia saving Soren or Viren saving a hundred thousand people, or Callum saving Rayla.

And yet...

... Primal magic is the one that gets the neutral treatment, the one about power not being inherently evil, just dangerous in the wrong hands.

Dark magic, meanwhile, is inherently evil no matter the circumstances, even when nothing gets killed to fuel it. And people have no problem eating meat and wearing fur, so there is more to it than just that. The explications given by the show, interviews and bonus material are vague at best, "it corrupts" "it poisons your soul", "there is always bad, long term consequences that we must pay eventually", Yadda Yadda.

I think it's not about what dark magic is, but what dark magic represents from our world.

Dark magic is the exploitation of nature and humans by humans.

Dark magic bends the rules of nature so humans can thrive at the expense of the wilderness.

It's similar to Promethean fire : the animals were given everything they needed to survive, while the humans had nothing, so they had to steal fire and use their ingenuity to be way more polyvalent than a crab's pinch or a lion's claws. When Aaravos gives dark magic to humans and gets dommed for his crime, it's Prometheus saving humans, stealing fire to the gods and getting chained and tortured for eternity. When Viren kills Thunder, it's the humans taking their autonomy from Zeus, the cruel god of gods, of balance and justice. When Claudia gives Soren the use of his body back, the lightning is reminescent of Frankenstein (the modern Prometheus), whose creation of artificial life is a sacrilegeous transgression.

It's also scientism : reducing nature and people to components. Viren has no problems with manipulating people because this is what dark magic is. He took Sarai's last breath to do something he knew she wouldn't approve of. He sacrifices and gaslights Soren because he keeps sacrificing magical creatures and his own health for the greater good. He has a spell that can change people into coins, to change people into means to an ends.

If you think of dark magic as scientism, and not as a neutral, nuanced magic that can be used well or abused, the way the show treats it makes suddenly perfect sense.

I'll digress for a bit here, but dark magic is actually pretty similar to alchemy, from the manga and anime Fullmetal Alchemist.

Keeping it short, magic consists in an extensive knowledge of chemistry and combinations to instantly alter the form of any matter. Magic is called alchemy. It is a science based on the principle of Equivalent Exchange, akin to the law of conservation of matter. If you have the right materials and understand how the interactions between molecules, you can instantly manipulate, “transmute” matter at will. You can't create something out of nothing, and for each result, something of equal value must be paid. And just like TDP’s give-and-take dark magic, alchemy is the sole privilege -or curse, of humans. However, in FMA, human organic matter resists transmutation; even if you have all the components at hand, creating artificial humans or resurrecting the dead is impossible. FMA showcases alchemy used for both benevolent and malevolent purposes, highlighting its dual nature. Alchemy is not inherently evil but is subject to the moral choices of its users. It's used, for example, to prevent a draught. But it's also used to torture or genocide people looking for the secret of human transmutation... which is reducing human beings to components to exploit. So, inherently morally bankrupt. Even if it's kids trying to bring their mom back. God/Truth/Nature instantly punishes you if you attempt to do so, because nature doesnt care your reasons, if you jumped off the cliff or were pushed.

Dark magic is very similar to alchemy. But it's treated like the worst part of alchemy : human transmutation.

And on contrary to dark magic, alchemy doesn't have any morally good or neutral magic it can be opposed to. It results in a way less nuanced treatment of the theme of exploitation.

Because, let's be real, yes, humans do love shortcuts past mass starvation and disease.

That does not make us evil.

the fandom’s discourse around dark magic is pretty much just a manifestation of “people know what they’re upset with, but not the root cause/can’t verbalize a solution to what they’re upset about.”

people who are unhappy with how dark magic is treated generally understand how the narrative frames it. they are correct in saying that there is a problem, and that it somehow involves the setting and dark magic, and then say that maybe it could be fixed if the magic system were changed. but their prescribed solution doesn’t work. the deeper problem is how the narrative uses (or doesn’t use) dark magic.

(flashback reel effect here, basically entirely rewritten but the format still doesn’t work for a full-fleged post so i will keep this transition in.)

that’s what really kills dark magic in this series, right? the fantasy question, “was dark magic good to use and when should it be used, if ever?” should be a jumping off point to explore all the other ways in which people value and instrumentalize power (ie sol regem literally saying the humans are inferior because they are less powerful) instead of staying only at the shallow level of “dork magic is bad for you.” just because the elves don’t use dark magic doesn’t mean they are immune to this discussion. indeed, the very first episode of the show shows us the moon elves engaging in a ritual that can be described as blood magic–binding their limbs to the blood of their targets; is this supposed to be magic that is Pure and Good? is the base problem really just dark magic, or what it represents? and more importantly, is what it represents limited to its practioners? the early answer–especially that we see this stuff from the xadians and are informed of their implied failed genocide early on–would be “no.”

but the later answer is “yes.” this early promise of the show is undercut by the show’s babybrained morality re: xadia and the elves. it never really critiques power in general at all except if its dark magic. it’s all fine and dandy and fun and smart to dunk on the humans, but xadians? insensitive. soren is bad and stupid for making a bad tactical decision, but pyrrah is a Good Dragon Friend even when retaliating against a whole village. it’s not tragic when ezran (a dumb child king who just let this happen) napalms his own people, because they have already been de-personed by dark magic. how convenient! 

and the story that dark magic creates–even if it is inherently harmful–is a great tragic story! the xadians, obsessed with power and how power makes you who you are, are stabbed in the back when some of the dredges finally discover a way to speak their language–and this doesn’t cause basically any self-reflection on their part. instead they basically go all out genocidal and no matter how bad dark magic is, this is extremely disproportionate. but the series still goes “but they are no angels!!! but they are no angels!!!” to basically one side only. for the xadians, the show (and even the supplementary material!) basically does backflips and contortions to show how they are nuanced and how humans should respect them, but there’s basically nothing the other direction.

you can say “oh good inflammatoryfandomblog!!! you’re seeing the point!!!” except i don’t really believe that the show has any intentions of making good on this initial promise. it has given me no indication of doing so, and its asymmetric treatment of the conflict basically does the opposite of the above. this problem does not go away if you change the magic system. this problem does not go away by simply noting the thematic potential of the setup of dark magic. ideas are cheap, though this is one that perhaps costs a nickel instead of a penny. the real problem is the execution.

[aleyuhhhh]

seeing everyone shit on season 4 of tdp meanwhile it was the entire reason i got back into the show you guys are tripping 😭😭